Extremely American: Season 2, Episode - "Onward Christian Soldiers: What Trump's Victory Means For Christian Nationalism"

Release Date: January 29, 2025

In this compelling episode of NPR’s Extremely American, hosts Heath Druzen and James Dawson delve deep into the intricate web of Christian nationalism in the United States, particularly in the context of Donald Trump’s re-election as President. The episode, titled "Onward Christian Soldiers: What Trump's Victory Means For Christian Nationalism," explores the movement's ambitions to transform American democracy into a theocratic system, thereby diminishing the rights of the majority.

Introduction: The Rising Influence of Christian Nationalism [00:28 - 01:24]

Heath Druzen opens the episode by addressing the significant shift following Trump’s second presidential victory. He highlights Trump's embrace of figures associated with Project 2025, a comprehensive white paper advocating for a drastic reorganization of government infused with Christian nationalist ideals. Druzen states:

“It means the Christian nationalists we talked to for the podcast are a lot closer to getting their allies and their influence into the highest echelons of power.” (01:10)

This alignment signifies a pivotal moment where Christian nationalists are gaining unprecedented access to governmental power, potentially steering the nation towards a theocratic governance model.

Heath Druzen’s Journey into Covering Extremism [02:15 - 06:06]

James Dawson initiates the discussion by probing Heath Druzen’s path into covering extremism. Druzen recounts his two-decade association with Idaho, starting as a general reporter for The Statesman in 2005. His pivotal shift towards extremism coverage began with the “Guns in America” project in 2018, where he focused on the militia movement, particularly Idaho’s 3-percenters and figures like Ammon Bundy.

“I got to know all of those folks and to my surprise, they actually talked to me quite a bit and I really got to kind of know them and their movement.” (04:45)

Heath explains how the events of January 6th amplified his podcast’s reach, transitioning into an expanded season that centers on Christian nationalism.

Historical Context of Extremism in Northern Idaho and Eastern Washington [06:03 - 08:55]

Heath provides a historical overview of extremism in Northern Idaho and Eastern Washington, citing the Aryan Nations’ activities in the 80s and 90s and key events like Ruby Ridge. He emphasizes the resilience of local communities in repelling extremist groups:

“You got to give a lot of credit to the communities up here for making them feel unwelcome. I think that was really powerful.” (07:00)

He introduces the Redoubt movement, a more recent phenomenon aiming to establish conservative Christian societies outside governmental oversight, attracting individuals seeking autonomy and alignment with their beliefs.

The Redoubt Movement and Its Connection to Christian Nationalism [11:19 - 12:36]

Druzen differentiates the Redoubt movement from broader Christian nationalism, noting significant overlaps:

“Plenty of readouters are Christian nationalists. Not all Christian nationalists are readouters, and not all readouters are Christian nationalists.” (11:55)

He explains that the Redoubt movement seeks to create an anti-government, parallel society based on conservative Christian values, attracting followers from states like California who desire autonomy and alignment with their beliefs.

Influence of Doug Wilson and the Christian Industrial Complex [14:03 - 21:43]

A central figure in the episode is Doug Wilson, pastor of Christchurch in Moscow, Idaho, and leader of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches. Druzen describes Wilson’s “Christian industrial complex,” which includes nearly 500 classical Christian schools through the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS).

“He sees these schools as a way to change culture through his students.” (18:25)

Wilson’s strategic use of education to indoctrinate Christian nationalist values positions his enterprises as pivotal tools for cultural transformation. Despite limited local political success, Wilson’s national influence through organizations like the Idaho Family Policy Council signifies a growing impact on Christian nationalist policies.

Impact of Trump’s Re-election and Project 2025 [21:43 - 28:34]

Following Trump’s victory, Druzen discusses Project 2025, a 900-page manifesto advocating for Christian nationalist policies.

“Donald Trump is hiring Project 2025 authors. Russ Vogt’s appointment tells you a lot.” (24:54)

Trump’s appointment of Russ Vogt, an architect of Project 2025, as White House Budget Director underscores the movement's advancing influence. Druzen emphasizes that Trump’s association with Christian nationalists, despite his limited theological knowledge, facilitates the movement’s access to power, integrating their radical ideas into governmental frameworks.

Local and National Dynamics of Christian Nationalism [28:34 - 35:25]

Druzen warns of dual-track influence, where national momentum reinforces state-level agendas. He highlights ongoing legislative efforts in Idaho, such as advocating for mandatory Bible readings in public schools, mirroring actions like Louisiana's display of the Ten Commandments.

“It's important to remember these ideas are broadly unpopular. Christian nationalist ideas about women being subservient... are not things that Americans generally agree with.” (25:19)

He underscores the necessity of civic engagement to counteract Christian nationalist policies, emphasizing voter participation's role in preventing theocratic tendencies.

Interactive Panel Discussion: Community Responses and Challenges [35:19 - 87:54]

The episode transitions to a live discussion with local panelists and audience members, including educators, human rights activists, and religious leaders. Key topics discussed include:

1. Reporting and Surprising Findings [38:08 - 43:55]

Kenton Bird, a retired journalism director, asks Druzen about surprising elements from his reporting. Druzen reveals:

“The big surprise was a lot of frank discussions with Christian nationalists, including ones who tried to convert me.” (38:42)

He also highlights the deeply ingrained patriarchal foundation of Christian nationalists, which Druzen initially underestimated.

2. Education and School Choice [51:21 - 57:26]

James Dawson queries the relationship between classical Christian education and movements challenging public education's hegemony. Druzen asserts that financial incentives, such as voucher systems, play a critical role in promoting private Christian schools over public education.

“They want to completely dismantle the public school system. They think public schools are evil.” (55:37)

3. Dominionism and Political Framing [57:13 - 62:14]

Joanne Manita asks about Dominionism and its political ramifications. Druzen explains Dominionism as the belief that Christianity should govern all societal institutions, effectively advocating for a theocratic state.

“Dominionism means theocracy. If you're not Christian, you don't believe what we do.” (59:00)

He also discusses the challenges of addressing religious freedom claims used to justify restrictive policies.

4. Anti-Semitism and Internal Fractures [76:57 - 86:17]

Audience questions probe the presence of anti-Semitism within Christian nationalism. Druzen acknowledges:

“There is a huge amount of anti-Semitism in Christian nationalism.” (76:57)

He notes internal conflicts, with some factions espousing overt anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi ideologies, creating fractures within the movement.

5. Community Support for Ex-Members [64:48 - 73:22]

Todd Bailey, an English teacher, inquires about supporting individuals leaving extremist churches. Druzen emphasizes the importance of acceptance and non-judgmental support:

“What really was powerful was just being accepted by other people and not being judged.” (64:48)

Strategies for Countering Christian Nationalism [32:55 - 35:25]

Heath Druzen advocates for proactive community engagement, urging citizens to participate in local elections, support independent journalism, and remain vigilant against extremist policies.

“If you don't turn out, you're not going to win.” (35:13)

Conclusion: The Path Forward [87:06 - End]

In his closing remarks, Druzen commends the engaged and informed community for addressing Christian nationalism openly. He encourages listeners to remain active and involved, stressing that preserving democracy requires collective effort against the theocratic ambitions of extremist movements.

“We are not living in a theocracy. We are still a democracy.” (29:10)

Notable Quotes:

• Heath Druzen: “Without that, everything falls apart.” (02:30)
• Heath Druzen: “Everybody has agency. We are not living in a theocracy.” (29:10)
• Heath Druzen: “They're very patient with getting those ideas out there. And now we're really seeing them take root.” (21:43)
• Heath Druzen: “These ideas are going to start happening under a much bigger spotlight than it ever has.” (25:19)

Key Takeaways:

1. Project 2025 and Political Influence: Trump's re-election has significantly bolstered the Christian nationalist movement’s access to government, with Project 2025 serving as a blueprint for their theocratic ambitions.

2. Influence of Doug Wilson: Doug Wilson’s educational and media enterprises are pivotal in spreading Christian nationalist ideologies, positioning education as a primary tool for cultural change.

3. Community Resilience: Despite historical and ongoing attempts by extremist groups to impose their agendas, local communities in Northern Idaho exhibit resilience and active resistance against theocratic shifts.

4. Need for Civic Engagement: Proactive participation in local elections and support for independent journalism are essential in countering the rise of Christian nationalism and preserving democratic principles.

5. Internal Challenges within the Movement: Anti-Semitism and ideological fractures present vulnerabilities within the Christian nationalist movement, potentially hindering its unified advancement.

Conclusion

This episode of Extremely American offers an in-depth analysis of the resurgence and entrenchment of Christian nationalism in the United States, highlighting both its historical roots and contemporary developments. Through Heath Druzen’s insightful reporting and interactive panel discussions, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the movement’s strategies, influences, and the critical importance of community vigilance in safeguarding democracy.

This structured summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, notable quotes with timestamps, and providing a clear, comprehensive overview for listeners who haven't tuned in.