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Eye On College Basketball
2025 NBA Draft Mailbag: VJ Edgecombe's Draft Ceiling, Carter Bryant's Rising Draft Stock
01:08:52
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- [00:01]
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- [01:28]
Adam Finkelstein
Foreign.
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Matt Norlander
College Basketball Podcast it is Thursday. I am Matt Norlander. That is Adam Finkelstein. If you're watching live or watching after the fact on YouTube, our our lead our lead editorial director at 247Sports on scouting. No matter the level, he's on board. GP's on vacation, by the way. So yes, we did have an episode earlier this week with our top 25 stories since 2000 that was pre taped but but happy to have Fink aboard here. Welcome back on the Pod man. How you doing?
- [02:17]
Adam Finkelstein
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I got draft this week. I got recruiting this week. I'm this is exciting time.
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Matt Norlander
You've been, you've been all around. You've been jet setting my man. You were at top 100 camp down in Rock Hill last week and then you flew over to Colorado Springs, right? So you've only gotten back home in the past what, 48 hours or so?
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Adam Finkelstein
I came home there was a 36 hour break there for fourth grade graduation, which I attended and then right back on the plane the next day and out to Colorado. But listen, I get to call this work. I've got no complaints.
- [02:49]
Matt Norlander
No doubt about it. You just said fourth grade graduation. I've recently learned that's become more of a thing like, I assume like you, like me. When we were growing up, fifth grade was the graduation. But now they're, they're looking to combine fifth and sixth and then seventh and eighth is middle school. Is that the situation with one of your kids?
- [03:04]
Adam Finkelstein
School is two through four. It was like the, the end of the school thing and it wasn't really graduation per se, but I don't know, there was a thing that parents were supposed to go to because he's done with the building. I was there. I didn't get deducted parent points. That's what's most important.
- [03:24]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, sounds like a hell of a scout you got going on. We have more intel coming on actual on, on the actual draft picks here. Big mailbag episode ahead. Before we do that though, I want to touch on a couple of talking points. Record this here on Thursday morning. The Ace Bailey situation has really become inflamed in the past 24 to 48 hours. We'll work that in, I think with one of our draft questions. Overall, I think as we record here live, that's now become the most intriguing talking point in NBA circle. So we'll get there. But I want to go big picture here, fink for you this draft class. I, I had my mock earlier this week and I addressed this in that a little bit. But I want, I want your opinion relative to the last eight to 10 years worth of draft classes. How do you think this year over? I'm not talking top five, I'm not talking top 10. I'm talking the pool of players, you know, 70, 80 deep that are under consideration to go and be selected next Wednesday and Thursday. How would you graph grade this draft class? Would you say it's great, Pretty good. Good. Just okay. Subpar report. That's six different, that's six different description there. Where would you land on this?
- [04:31]
Adam Finkelstein
I would go good, not great. And I think the narrative coming into this draft cycle, which for us, like, you know, draft head like, like me, really began, you know, a year if not more ago. And the perception was that this was going to be a great draft. I do not think it is a great draft. I think it's a good draft. The reason it's a good draft Is because of the talent at the very top, specifically Cooper and Dylan. The reason why it's not great is because the overall depth wasn't trending the way we hoped. And then you got hit with the implications of the nil market. So now that the depth, both in the end of the first round and even in the beginning of the second, like where you used to be able to find a rotation player, or let me rephrase, you used to have a chance to find a rotation player, sometimes you'd even be able to find a steal. I don't know that that value is there in this year's draft. I still like it at the top. I don't think that once you get farther down the first round board and definitely into the second that it has the same depth as other top classes.
- [05:34]
Matt Norlander
I would agree with you. I. I see plenty of players, you know, top five is one, is one discussion, maybe even top six in this draft. I think there's a line of delineation there. I see players peppered throughout, like the teens, a couple in the 20s were actually like those players relative to where they're projected and what they could be. But I gotta say, like, to me, I would answer my own question here. I would put it subpar. Overall, I look and I look into the second round of players and I want to be clear on this. There will be guys selected in the second round that ultimately make really good careers for themselves. But I do not like, as I was building out my mock calling some sources, trying to accurately project, okay, where are these guys going to go? And are there guys right now that are between, say, 35 and 50 that I believe in, that teams might believe in, that I can jump up. I, I really had a hard time getting myself there and I find myself underwhelmed, broadly speaking, by the overall class here. I mean, the guys that are populating the 55 to 65 to 70 spots overall, I'm just, I don't know what it is. I'm just, I don't find myself enthused. And I will say in talking and talking to a variety of NBA sources, fink, there have been some who have disagreed with me, but I've had a couple of people in front office, you know, they say this with the benefit of saying it on background and not having their name attached to it, but there are a couple of that are just not remotely intrigued or interested once you get past like 25 in this draft.
- [07:01]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, I was going to say like, like 40. And there's tiers right but to me, 40 is the mark where after 40, I'm not sure how many real NBA players there are, like maybe you'll hit but the chances aren't good. The other thing I would say about the scouts and NBA sources who have some optimism about the second round is and this is in the weeds a little bit. But from the perspective of those guys, like inside an NBA front office, if you are in the scouting department, lots of times the GM or whoever, the primary decision maker will like they'll, they'll delegate the second round pick because they just don't have time to do the due diligence. So if you're someone who's trying to make a career for yourself and you're given the opportunity to, to quarterback that pick, nailing the pick is how you, you really expedite like the growth in your career. And so for those players in a market now where there's viewed much value, like if you're a third in somebody's front office and you nail your second round pick, well, you just fast tracked your career. So from that perspective, I understand why those scouts think it's exciting and you know, are hopeful that they have a diamond in the rough.
- [08:07]
Matt Norlander
No doubt about it. We got a comment in the live chat here saying Cedric Howard, sleeper of the draft. Not yes and no. I have, I have a big time feature on Mr. Coward scheduled to publish I believe early Friday morning. So by the time you listen to this, maybe it's live. If you haven't gotten to it, please seek it out. Put a ton of work into it and he is one of the most impressive players I have ever interviewed in more than 15 years. Doing this will be super interesting to see where he goes on draft night. We don't have a specific question directed toward his way but he has got a very fascinating story. He's literally unprecedented. There's never been a player that has made the NBA and been selected in the first round with his path. It's just unbelievable. So that's a little bit of a tease for you. Before we get to the questions I did want to I was curious on guys that you might be higher on or lower on than our consensus. We had our Top 100 board published on Wednesday at CBSSports.com on the CBS Sports app. Not if we could link the Top 100 prospect rankings in this episode description on YouTube and in the audio feed after the fact so people can scan that. Give me a couple relative to our collective group think I think it was six or seven of us that really Sent in our, our prospect rankings to KB Kyle Boone. And then he built it out there. Who are you higher on? Who are you lower on?
- [09:25]
Adam Finkelstein
So I will say this. I thought we did a pretty good job. Like, I was kind of disappointed when Boone sent me the list. I was like, man, this is too good. There's no, like, there's no easy ones for me to pick off here. Generally speaking, I think the, the category that maybe we are too low on in general is the French kids. Because, you know, like one of the narratives in this draft is like there's a lesser international influx. Well, not really. It's just that the nil market brought Casper Jakochonis and Jaeger Demon to college basketball. They would have been in the draft either way. They just would have been more mysteries because they wouldn't have played college basketball in the years before nil. Still though, I think there's a strong contingent from France that because they didn't play college basketball maybe isn't getting talked enough about now. I thought our rankings like Nolan Traore is a guy that a year ago we were talking about his potential top five pick and then he, he really kind of struggled out of the gates and his stock really dropped. I thought our rankings got him right. But generally speaking, I would say I'm ahead of the masses on him. I think we had him around like 14 or something like that, which I think is about accurate. And also from France, I think players like Joan Berry, Ja, if I'm saying.
- [10:44]
Matt Norlander
That correctly, we can go with either one. No worries. It's. It's better, it's better than GP would have said it. So let's just roll.
- [10:50]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, I know it's not Behringer, but you know, I think he is one that I am. You know, he was 23 on our big board. I don't think he'll be available at 23. And I think because he fits that archetype as the high level athlete at the center position who can run the floor, protect the rim and be a vertical spacer. Those that archetype has been hitting really consistently as of late. So I'm personally higher on him. The other kid from France that I'm. And I don't mean, I mean they're young man from France that I'm, I'm personally higher on is, is no appenda. And that's because he may not have star potential, but once you get out of the top two, five, seven, whatever, like most people aren't star hunting at that point and instead they're looking for a player who can come in and be a productive two way piece and Penda is someone in that category that I think is undervalued. We've got him at 31. I think he'll be a first round pick six, seven and change with the 611 and a half wingspan 245 pounds. He's got an NBA ready body, NBA ready length, monster hands which is a big variable for a lot of these, these teams and great playmaking metrics in the defensive end of the floor and just a really smart player. So that all now he's got to be able to make standstill threes but all of that yields itself to being just a versatile role player for me.
- [12:14]
Matt Norlander
Real quick on Behring J. I had him in the 20s and then talked so mock published I guess on Monday or whatever. And then that night I talked to two NBA sources and they're like yeah, that's gonna, you're gonna be wrong. Like he's going to go in the top 20. So, so keep that in mind. The guys I'm higher on real quick, I have Trey Johnson at two on my board. So I, I go flag Johnson, Harper. I am and that's narrow but just you know it is universal out there. Like when you look at mock drafts and I think even general big boards, it's flagged than Harper. I think Trey Johnson is going to grow into one of the five or so best scorers in the league. His work ethic, he is the and real. Actually let me ping this back to you real quick. Think and you know, shoot it down if you disagree on a personal evaluation standpoint. But the intel that I have consistently gotten back on Johnson for the past like year. I know I gu. During high school stuff, maybe it was a little bit different. People thought maybe he was a little bit of a ball hog. But he has got like upper echelon flag level work ethic and determination. So when I, when I hear that consistently about how maniacal he is about the process and the work ethic and living in the gym at a level that's even beyond like most guys are going to be picked in the, in the lottery and I trust the shooting, I trust the form, I trust the scoring. That just narrowly puts me ahead of him with you know than Harper at, at 2. What's your thought on Johnson real quick and how far apart are we? Like do you have him personally? 4, 5, 6 on your board? Where does he land?
- [13:45]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, I've got, I've got him. I've Got him between four and six. I'm concerned. I would agree with you on a couple points. One, there's been definite maturation in his approach. He's always been a worker, but the worker has been focused on, kind of been driven towards, you know, on his individual game and not necessarily within the, the team concept. I think that there was, you know, there was some, you know, like his USA basketball experiences in high school where he got cut and didn't necessarily like, handle it. Well, that's a pretty well known story at this point in time. So I think there's been a lot of maturation. I think that his, his passing exceeded my expectations this year at Texas. His efficiency as the number one scoring option, like the counting stats. I was not surprised at the fact that he did it with such efficiency. I was surprised at. I still think he's got to defend and, and I still think there's room for growth and listen, everybody with a Synergy account is going to jump on and cite the numbers and tell me I'm wrong here, but this was a guy, a shot maker, who preferred to play off the dribble than the catch in high school. And I still think there's growth in terms of what he can do coming off various types of screening actions and playing off the catch. He hadn't, he hasn't fully weaponized that part of his game yet. And I understand the shooting numbers off the catch are good. I'm just saying when you, when you watch the tape, when you talk to the people at Texas and you say like, hey, for a guy who's got that type of shot making ability, is he as good as he should be coming off pin downs and staggers and various types of screening actions? The answer is not yet. He's still more comfortable shooting off the dribble. So there's, there's little things. Listen, here's the thing about the draft. Everybody comes like, you're right, Everybody says, Cooper's one, Dylan's two. That's pretty much the consensus. But the only guarantee about this or any draft is that something unexpected will happen. So could Trey Johnson be the second best player to come out of this draft?
- [15:42]
Matt Norlander
Sure.
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Adam Finkelstein
That's within the realm of possibility.
- [15:44]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, no doubt about it. And that's, you know, I mentioned this on HQ earlier this week. Just keep in mind, everyone that, you know, Flag is the obvious number one pick. He should be at the top. Everybody doesn't guarantee he'll be the best player out coming out of this draft. He could, but there's no Guarantee to it. It's always interesting to look back three, five, seven years down there. There's just no guarantee he's the most likely, you know, he's the most likely to have the best career. But there's no assurances that's going to happen. That's why, that's why to me, draft season is so much fun.
- [16:07]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, agreed. That's why when Nicola Jokic was a second round pick and he's the best player in the NBA then you're like, yeah, there are no guarantees.
- [16:14]
Matt Norlander
Correct. Two more for me that I'm higher on. Then let's get lower and then we'll get to the questions. I have Asa Newell in the top 15. We have him at 21 on our overall board. I think his, his spectrum on where he could get selected is actually about as wide as any player that has lottery level type of stock. But I personally think Newell, they aren't the same players, I think but Newell could get to the NBA. Really have really thrive in a way where it's like, oh, there's another guy who played at Georgia, don't really remember much about his career a la Anthony Edwards. He's not gonna be Anthony Edwards, but you get what I'm saying there. I'm higher on him than our consensus. And then we have a question tied to Walter Clayton in the mailbag. So we'll save that.
- [16:47]
Adam Finkelstein
In general, I was saving him because.
- [16:49]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, we have him at 31. To me, he, I would, I have him in my top 20 on my big board. Overall guys, I'm higher on lower. I'll go first than you. I'm a huge. Again, this is, I, I, this is just trying to look at this objectively, looking at the pool of draft, you know, prospects that we have out there and there are going to be disagreements, but these are just guys that I am not nearly as high on as the consensus. Jeremiah Fears. I don't even personally, for me he is not a top 15 prospect in this class. I understand why he is there. I see what people see. But for me personally, I wouldn't have him in the top 15 column. Murray Boyles, I'm also down on. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have him as a top 20 prospect. Maybe not even a top 25. That's just me. I know that's a major zag. Will Riley, I might have affected the standing, although I know I wasn't the only one. But I'm also not big on Will Riley. Got to see way, way more. He is benefiting from From a ton of really good, you know, buzz leading into this over the past six, seven weeks. And good for him. I'm just not there. And then one more Rasheer Fleming. He could well hit. He is definitely go. He is benefiting from a lot of the, the measurables and, and the combine process. I get all that. He's out of St. Joe's a lot of people don't even couldn't pick Rasheed Fleming out of a lineup. Very possible he go in the first round. I just don't have a first round grade on him. So those are a few of my names. Two or three for you. Who are you not as high on is the consensus.
- [18:09]
Adam Finkelstein
So I, what's interesting about that is I did not write on who I was lower on. What I did write on is players that I thought would get drafted higher like I did two tiers. Like guys I'm personally higher on and then players I think will get drafted higher than where we have them. And two of the players you mentioned were in that list. Fears. I think we have him at number 11 on the big board. And I'm, I agree, I'm skeptical, but I also think he has a chance to get drafted between five and eight and I'm very skeptical of that. Here's the thing with fears. Let's just talk about from an archetype standpoint. If you believe in, if you're drafting in between five and eight, it's because you think he has like primary creator upside, which is what he was at Oklahoma. Right. So you're, you're trusting the ability to get in the paint, the burst, the pace, the creativity with the ball. And if you've watched him since high school, you really encouraged. Although he's still lean by the way, his body has begun to transform. That, that's been a talking point that I think is a little off base. Like everybody's saying like, oh, he's gonna have to get a lot stronger. Well, if that's your narrative, it shows me you've only been watching him for a year because it's true. But contextually what's more accurate is to say he's going to have to keep getting stronger because his body is really transformed in the last eight months even. What concerns me though is it's even less about the shooting and the defense, although those are both concerns it's role. Right. So like is he good enough to be the primary player in an NBA team? The primary creator on an NBA team? And in retrospect, let's remember scoot Henderson isn't good enough for that role. Like, this is a guy that at one point people, people were talking about taking over Brandon Miller and even revisionist history is going to want to say this never happened, but it did. There were people saying like, should we think about taking Scoot Henderson over Wemby three years later? That sounds absolutely crazy, but that was a talk once upon a time.
- [20:06]
Matt Norlander
I remember polling like I don't know, 13 MB and on WEMBY, but on Miller and I think it was like 8, 5 miller. And I remember one of the front office people Eastern Conference who was like dead set. Like, it's Miller. It's not even close. And when I gave him the results, he's like, he's like, what are these people? Like, he was just, he was like, scoot could be fine. But to me it's not even close. It just, it's, it's interesting to go back just a few years removed from that the scoop and Brandon Miller convo. And I remember the Wemby stuff a little bit, but like that in particular. And now we see where it is.
- [20:38]
Adam Finkelstein
Now and yeah, that archetype, it's really hard to hit on, right? Like, are you John Morant? And even then, like, what's your durability? Like, are you. And if you are not the primary creator, then what are you? Because you have, you need the ball in your hand. Unless your game totally changes, you're not a great shooter off the catch yet. Although I think he could be in time. And so then what are you? I think you're like the instant offense guy in the second unit. And that is not something that I'm willing to use a top eight pick on. So, so he would be one that I would highlight from what you said. And the thing, the thing about Will Riley is this, is that because of all the kids and I won't go too deep into this because I think there's a question on it because of all the kids who have gone back to college in the nil market, there is a far smaller market in the 20s and even. And I don't think there is a market in the early second round for teams that want to swing for the fences. Because that, that's, that's like a philosophical question for teams at the end of the first round. Do we want to get a guy who we can allocate into a low salary, who can play immediate minutes but has a theoretically but has a lower ceiling or do we want to take a swing and see if at a high upside guy who's not ready to play right right away but may be able to, may end up being a steal. If you are interested in the latter, Will Riley is now like one of the very few names on your board because guys like, you know, to Hod, Pettiford, LeBaron, Filon, all these guys went back to school and there's not a whole lot of high upside swings like Will Riley. I have significant concerns, too, but with his perimeter size, his ability to make shots in bunches when he gets going, I understand he was under 33% on the season and even some, like, flashes of playmaking late in the season. There's an upside there, but there's, there's certainly, I mean, I'll just say it plainly. There's bust potential there, too. There's not a whole lot of guys like him in this draft.
- [22:39]
Matt Norlander
All right, we asked for your questions. You delivered. We've got a whole group of them here and we're going to get to those top five stuff. Ace Bailey, I referenced that. We'll get into that. Some second round, some college stuff. There's, there's a good little variety here. Happy to have Fink on the show. So we'll get to the questions from the mailbag. First, let's get to a, let's get to a word from our partners. Nada. Let's do it. We'll talk to you right after the break.
- [23:04]
Celsius Representative
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- [23:27]
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- [23:52]
Matt Norlander
Let's dive right in here. Stephen from Virginia asks what's. Where's the highest V.J. edgecombe could get drafted? Could he go number two?
- [24:01]
Adam Finkelstein
No. Yeah, there was. I think his highest is three. And I think that Dylan Harper will go to. I think the only question is whether the spurs take him, which it seems like they will, or Whether they will trade off. I think it was Fran for Schiller who tweeted a couple of weeks ago that that Vijay was in the mix. It too. I do not believe that to be the case at this point in time. I think that especially with Ace Bailey not working out for Philadelphia, he will be in the mix at three. And I also think Philadelphia's pick is on the market, so there's an opportunity for somebody to trade up. I actually think that Vijay's range is pretty small. Like, I think Charlotte would take him at 4 and there's a chance that Philly or somebody else takes him at three. So I think it's between three to five for BJ Edgecombe.
- [24:48]
Matt Norlander
Why not let it fly? Ask. And a number of these, by the way, came from Blue Sky. We appreciate everyone over there. Finkelstein is also prominent over on that social media platform.
- [24:57]
Adam Finkelstein
Am I Shout Out. Zach Sandberg, who helps me, helps me with my Blue sky account.
- [25:01]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, yeah, you do some stuff. Oh, I didn't realize you were outsourcing your social media posting.
- [25:06]
Adam Finkelstein
That's my. That's my guy, man. He teaches me how to do. I'm like, I'm the old guy now. I was like, what is this thing? And he's like, I'll just do it this way.
- [25:13]
Matt Norlander
So it's great someone representing you is on there. So regardless, okay, why not let it fly ass. Obviously, spurs are going Harper at 2, but what would y' all do at 14? First of all, I never say y' all so apologies for that wing shooting Coward, Nick Clifford, Liam McNeely. What about a backup big like Sorber, Baron J trade out? As a Spurs fan, I'd love if we could get Kalkbrenner or Reyno type, but 14 seems a reach. What say you think?
- [25:39]
Adam Finkelstein
I say that that fans got a pretty good idea of what's going on here because I think especially if they take Harper, floor spacing is got to be at a premium. Right? Because the big question around Harper is how does he fit with Steph Castle and Dear and Fox, none of which are really known as floor spacers. And with Wemby in particular, you need to space that floor in order to really highlight what he could be on the offensive end. Now, I will say, remember, they let Wemby really shoot the but he took a lot of threes last year, so the lane is open for those guards to attack the rim because they let him shoot. But I think a wing who can stretch the floor is. Is certainly on the table. Someone like Coward I've also, I've mocked Liam McNeely there a couple of times which I know is higher than most people have Liam but, but I think he would fit. There's a chance Coward is off the board at 14. I also think another big to. To get yourself some depth there is. Would make a lot of sense. There's been speculation that they might be interested in. Come on Malawatch. He will not be on the board at 14. They move up. They've. I mean they've got a treasure trove of future assets. So like they can move off this pick, they can move up. They could do a lot of different things. But I do think those are the two buckets that you will see this pick come from. Is a, is a backup big or a, or a shooting wing.
- [27:01]
Matt Norlander
I mocked, I mocked Asa Newell there. He didn't have great 3 point numbers is 1 only year. But he could be movable as a, as a big piece there. But maybe that's a, maybe that's a reach. I do think that's McNeely Seal. I think that is his best case scenario is going at 14. Eric Diener asks as a Sixers fan, what do you think they do at number three? I know this is a loaded question with the Embiid situation, but I think Malawatch and Knipple would be great fits. Do you think someone like Trey Johnson has a higher ceiling than Jared McCain who's already on the roster? And then let's, let's get into the Ace Bailey stuff. Jonathan Gavoni was the first to report that, you know, Ace Bailey has canceled his scheduled workout with Philadelphia. To this point it has been reported that Bailey has not done a single workout with a single team. So let's combo this thing here. What do you think they do at 3? Who do you think the pick is? And I mean, is it Bailey? And what, what do you make of the Bailey stuff overall in the context of what's happening this week and then you having followed this guy and, and seen what he's been as a rising prospect for, you know, three plus years at this point.
- [28:04]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah. So I, I talked about this on HQ yesterday and there's, there's a lot to unpack in this question. Right. So let's start with Ace Bailey, who I believe is a top three prospect in this class. Specifically when it comes to upside. I think his floor is significantly lower than, than Harper's and, and obviously Cooper's.
- [28:21]
Matt Norlander
Can I interject real quick here? Is it fair to say of the guys that are in the Three to six conversation. This is my opinion. Tell me if you disagree or agree. TREY JOHNSON, Bailey, V.J. eds come in. I'm gonna throw knipple in there. No one has a higher ceiling, but a lower floor. Of those four players. Nice. Bailey, he's got. He's got the widest variance. Would you agree?
- [28:38]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, yeah, I think he's. Yes, I think that's a true statement. I will. So the thing with. With Ace is. Ace is represented by Omar Cooper, who is Sharif Cooper's dad. And Sharif, he used to run his AAU program. So this has been someone who he's been around for years now. The narratives coming out of NBA circles is that he wasn't prepared for his interviews in Chicago and that, you know, now he won't. Won't work out for people. So. So they're, you know, frankly, they're annoyed by that. What you have to wonder. And so what is. What has generated momentum is like, oh, this new agent doesn't know what he's doing. And I think that's kind of the narrative that a lot of these NBA people are perpetuating. And maybe that's the case. I don't know. But maybe there's a plan there, and maybe they know where they want him to end up. Maybe they want to want him to get to a place where they know he's going to be able to start from day one and get the volume to really flourish. Because ultimately, the money in the NBA doesn't come from your rookie deal. You make less if you go, say, seventh rather than third, but the money comes in your second contract. So if you get to a place where you're going to have the opportunity to play through your mistakes, it could really benefit. Now, if I'm Philadelphia, I still take him. Here's why I do think he has the top three upside. I think he's a top three prospect, and I think his upside is significant. There's been a lot of talk about Philadelphia is trying to win. Now, Ace Bailey's not equipped to do that. And while that may be true, I also think we're nearing the point where, you know, Philadelphia may consider a reset. You know, is Embiid ever going to be able to stay consistently healthy? They just went all in on Paul George, but he's not getting any younger. And if you have to do, let's call it a soft reset where you don't totally tank. Getting a high upside prospect is really notable because as long as you've got, like, tyrese Maxey, Jared McCain, you're never. You might not have a top three pick for a long time, so this may be your only bite at the apple. That's why I'm still taking Ace Bailey and Daryl Morey. And I think John made this point, John Gavoni made this point this morning is that Daryl Morey has proven in the past that he's willing to draft players who don't work out for him now. So that's. That's the Ace Bailey thing. If they are interested in finding a player who can make the most immediate impact to winning, I actually think Con can. Apple is the guy. I don't think I would draft him at 3, but I think there's a market and I think that they are entertaining this market to move down. And you could see, like we've talked about Charlotte, do they want Vijay? Would they want to move up? Could Philadelphia trade down to four, pick up another asset and get Khan? Could they trade down to five or six, pick up another asset or two and get Khan the guy who's able to come right in and make the most immediate impact and fit their. Their rotation because they've got Tyrese maxey and Jared McCain in the backcourt. And I think Khan's best position, specifically defensively, is at the three. So I think that's on the board. Vijay is also on the board because even though there's a little bit of a positional overlap there with Tyrese and Jared, he's an alpha competitor. He's. If when you're picking in the top three, you just take the best prospect available and you don't worry so much about position. So if they think Vijay, or Trey, for that matter, is the third best prospect, I think both of those guys are in the mix. So that's a long winded way of saying I think there are four prospects on the board. I think the pick is on the table for those who are interested in trading for it. I even think they would explore trading up and going after somebody like Dylan that had been reported in previous weeks. So I think there's a lot of plausible scenarios. With six days before the draft for.
- [32:23]
Matt Norlander
Philadelphia, my intel, which could be outdated in 15 minutes, obviously, is that the trade stuff is very interesting. Ace Edge, come feel there. Doesn't seem like Philly is sweet on Trey Johnson, but keep in mind, this is Daryl Morey, so just keep that in mind. And, you know, with. With that being said, you know, it feels like there's whatever the vibe may be going into next Wednesday with Philly, the. The opportunity for some level of surprise seems to be on the table. Let's keep it moving. Marcus asks if the Hornets don't move back and we're not going to go pick by pick by pick in the, in the lottery here, I promise. But this is just the order of the questions. If the Hornets don't move back, where do they go with the fourth pick? So I'll even reinterpret this for you Fink. Who is your prediction when we get, when we get to and Nada a Hornets fan himself on the pod here. I'm gonna I want Nada to answer this as well. So first, so first think predict six days from now who are the Hornets drafting? Who will it be?
- [33:23]
Adam Finkelstein
Vijay Edge comes the player at the top of their board I think I expect he's the player who should be at the top of their board but I I don't like the Ace Bailey fit. I actually understood why his representation didn't want to work out in Charlotte. I don't think that would be a good fit for player or team. I think Khan would be just fine and Trey fits from a position standpoint but that's a whole lot of non defending shot jackers who don't pressure the rim when you put him next to ball and Miller. So I think Vijay is the guy who makes the most sense. But let me just clarify. Nada isn't just like a Charlotte fan. Nada is in the know. That should be the name of podcast that's actually good.
- [34:05]
Matt Norlander
Nada in the no, not it. In the weeds. All right, Nada. Who do you want Charlotte to select? Who will Charlotte select? Are those two different people?
- [34:14]
Adam Finkelstein
They're absolutely two different people. I would tell you I want Trey Johnson. I think the shot making is a big thing. I do think they're gonna go con canyble I think they'll go con Canyville even over VJ Edge come for some reason.
- [34:28]
Matt Norlander
Okay. I think Knipple to me is a player who is going to be able to I do I1 he is on my will not fail no matter what list and I have maybe four players on that list this season. Two of them being Duke players obviously Flag being the other and he is he's just well rounded, great shooter, incredible footwork, really solid like solid defender and smart defender, quick learner. Any situation you put him into, I don't know how I don't know how impactful he'll be as a rookie but I I he's not going to get lost in the mix and no matter the franchise like some Players are very dependent. As almost anyone at the NBA level will tell you, there are always players in the lottery, even that are dependent upon the situation they're drafted into. The coaching staff, sometimes the city, the city they go to. There's a lot of factors that can impact their, their level of success. And then there are other players that for any number of reasons are just they're built to be able to thrive almost no matter the environment they get drafted into. And I consider Knipple to be one of those players. Going to Charlotte would certainly be intriguing and also add a little bit of a wrinkle to the, to the top five, top six, how it plays out overall. Let's keep it moving here. Frank Whitehead asks, seems like Carter Bryant Stock has only gone up since the season ended. What's the highest he could go and what would be the best fit for his development? So kind of tying into what I just talked about.
- [35:49]
Adam Finkelstein
Fink, by the way, we've been on this for 33 minutes and I just noticed that you named yourself draft Norlander for this.
- [35:56]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, I'm in Draft Norlander season for the next week. I'm not Matt Norlander. I'm draft Norlander. That's right.
- [36:01]
Adam Finkelstein
Go Adam. So Carter, Bryant Stock, mock. I've had a mock to Houston at 10 for a long time, and when I first started doing that, it seemed really aggressive because the guy averaged six points and four rebounds per game last year for Arizona. And now I think there's a chance. I don't think it's likely, but I think there's a chance. I would say the highest he could go is seven or eight. NBA folks, I know you're not saying.
- [36:28]
Matt Norlander
It'S likely, but you think there's a conceivable world where Carter Bryant goes all the way to seven.
- [36:32]
Adam Finkelstein
I. I do. I think there is a. I think there's a chance. I don't think it's likely. I still think 10 is the is the is where I'm going to have him mocked. We agree, but I will tell NBA, NBA people love him. And as I said, when you get outside, like at a certain point, you're just looking for players who can, who can play a certain role. And Carter Bryant, there's not a whole lot of 3&D wings in this class and Carter Bryant is the best one. And it's one where like that archetype is one of the most valuable in the NBA. And let me just tell you seven like you tell me the Pelicans couldn't use a three and D wing. I know they got Trey Murphy, but everybody can use a 3 and D. Like couldn't use a 3 and D wing. Like sure they could. Toronto couldn't use a 3 and D wing. Of course they could. So especially if they're going to deal some of these guys. So I don't think that's likely. But the question was like what's the, how high, what's the highest he could go? I think the highest is 7. What team would be the best fit for his development? I think I would really like Houston. As I said, I think with IME Adoka there a coach who really values defense and a need for, for some floor spacing there. When you've got Sengun who doesn't shoot. When you've got Amend Thompson who doesn't shoot. Carter Bryant I think would fit there now they, and there's also like a really good chance that Houston has a consolidation trade in their future because they have so many young assets and they're a team that's still trying to figure out if they have their, their long term alpha already in house, like if somebody's going to grow into that role or if they have to go out and trade for one. And if they have to go out and trade for one, a number of those young assets will be, will be moving on.
- [38:26]
Matt Norlander
All right, I want to do a real quick follow up here with you just because there are people watching, listening that are going to see this. Carter Bryant averaged 6.5 points, 4.1 rebounds. He played less than fewer than 20 minutes per game last season. And this isn't a case where a guy is a one and done player and it's like, okay, well he's going to have top 10 stock because he was the number three ranked player, the number six ranked player in his class. He was 20. He was a four star prospect. So in a paragraph's worth of explanation, Finn, think why is someone like Carter Bryant rising like this and is it in, is it an indictment on the Arizona staff that they did not play him more, that his numbers weren't better, that he didn't get more time on the floor? What, you know, how, how could it be that a guy that played that little at the Big 12 level, level and has the stats that he has is nonetheless on a track to be a top 10 pick?
- [39:12]
Adam Finkelstein
So I think it's a credit to the Arizona staff that he's going to be a top 10 pick because the, the, the difference between, let's put it on me, right? Is it and is it an indictment on me that he was ranked 24th and he might get drafted 10th. Like that. That's and what I would tell you is the difference between that is the shooting. He shot the ball much better at Arizona than he did in high school and I actually talked to him about this at the combine and we like created a little video that on social media about him talking about the work that that staff did to extend his shooting range out to the three point line. So I think if anything they deserve credit. And I would also make this point like there is something to be said. You look at Carter Bryant, you look at Jace Richardson, these guys who look at Steph Castle a year ago who play somewhat supporting roles in their first year in college and see both their development and their draft stock skyrocket versus those who are given kind of complete freedom as they come in as a freshman, end up just exposing some of their warts and see their draft stock diminish. I don't know that kids coming into college have a full appreciation for that. Sometimes it's better to keep people guessing. And I think there's, as I mentioned those, those names. I think there's a definite history to prove that. So I think it's a credit to the Arizona staff and a credit to the gains he's made specifically as a shooter and his willingness to embrace the defensive end of the floor Summer is.
- [40:44]
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- [41:13]
Matt Norlander
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- [41:28]
Matt Norlander
Next question An Arkansas fan asked do you think a do Theo will keep John Calipari streak of first round picks going? Here is the info on that so while obvious at Kentucky, Caliperi had a first round pick every single season he was there. He had five in year one. He never topped out or matched it while cousins Patterson, Bledsoe and yes, Daniel Orton way back in the day in 2010. But most seasons he had at least at least two first round picks. It's slowed. I say it slowed. It did a little bit in this final four years a year ago Reed Shepard obviously number three pick. Dillingham went year before that just Case and Wallace doing all right for himself. Shade and Sharp the year before that as well. But he's now at Arkansas and Thero's on his roster. Will Theo be a first round pick and keep this going? Kentucky by the way at risk? I would say, I would say almost definitely. Well with Cal gone now the streak will end for Kentucky. Although I will add I am higher on Kobe Braya than I think most. I think he is. I think he's got the build and the shooting to, to stick and play through multiple contract cycles. But I don't think he'll be a first round pick. Will a Duthero be a first round pick for pick?
- [42:36]
Adam Finkelstein
Unlikely, not impossible. If he is on the surface he's, he's more of a second round pick. He benefits from the amount of guys who went back to college and the lack of depth which we've already talked about even that. Having said that, his chances of being a first round pick come down to his ability to convince NBA teams that he's going to be able to shoot. There's not much in his numbers or his tape from this point that that will convince people. So ultimately it will mean that he has like a really good workout and some coaching staff or front office says you know what we think he's going to be able to shoot because if you, if you think he's going to be able to make standstill threes then you've got an athletic 3 and D type asset and that would be I think a first round prospect. But there is, there is less optimism that he's. That he can shoot at this point.
- [43:26]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, it feels like he's locked into the second round anywhere from this is my own projection 35 to 45. Xavier fan Joe asks if your son was a borderline first second round pick, would you advise him to stay in school for an nil guarantee? So let's, I'll put the parameters on that fink. Let's say you've got a, a son who's, you know, objectively in the 25 to 35 range. Tell him to stay in the draft or tell him to go back and, and get, you know, the nil world is now shifting again with revenue sharing. So this, so the, the nature of this question is a little bit different moving forward. But let's just say hypothetically you've got a son who can be set up to make, you know, I'll say 2 million the next year in college basketball. Or he could be the 33rd pick in the NBA draft. What would you advise him to do?
- [44:07]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, in 2025 you go back to school where this money is not speculative as much like in 2025 the money was higher than it had had ever been. And it was also more, it was also on paper more than it had been in the past. So I and you saw this, right? You saw lebaron Filon, you saw Todd Pettiford, you saw a lot of these guys. Cedric Coward was going to go back to school until he realized like, hey wait a minute, I'm going to be a mid first round pick. So I think in 2025 the, you know, the impetus, correctly speaking, was to go back to school in 2026 with the house settlement and all the ramifications from that. The fallout from that, like we'll see what it goes. But you know, I will credit Travis Branham, who just wrote a story yesterday about how the market moving forward is not expected to be quite as robust as it was this season. Obviously there's still a lot of variables that need to be worked out. But long story short, go back to school in 2025, check back with me in a year about what the earning power of college basketball is in 2026 and how that measures against the NBA draft.
- [45:14]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, GP and I have talked on some of those things in recent podcasts. Parrish remains highly skeptical. That will be a that will be maybe the most interesting storyline behind the scenes in college basketball for the next year is what is the economy of the sport and does it and does the market really drastically come down or not? That will be intriguing. Truett and Durham writes, I'm loving the Pacer success this year while also lamenting the Hoosiers lack thereof. What could and maybe should IU athletic administrators and coaching staff learn from Rick Carlisle and the Pacers? I'm sure that NBA and NCAA programs function differently, but I'm curious what parallels you guys can draw. I'll answer this real quick, think, and then send it over to you. They are running a college program and running an NBA franchise are vastly, vastly different enterprises all together. That said it, you know, keep in mind that particularly a coach like Rick Carlisle who has many connections at the college level and there's a lot of these head coaches personally, there can be lessons to be learned and there are, there are often lessons that are passed down from from one level to the next. And you know, the question is obviously asked because you've got, you know, two teams in the same state not that far from each other. And then coincidentally enough when I did a, I did a feature on Halliburton and we published that, I guess earlier this month or late last month, I can't remember at this point. But anyway, the one thing the Pacers and their players have said kind of consistently is like they kind of operate like a college team, like in terms of the retention, in terms of the atmosphere, environment in the locker room, in terms of the practices and, and a lot of that stuff. So it was interesting to hear them kind of compare how they've been able to do this with a college like environment, how that would translate with Darren Devries. I know we wait and see on all that, but, but I appreciated the question and my big picture answer is there are some things that can be applied, but generally speaking, the objectives of an ownership and then a coaching staff and the players on the roster, while everyone wants to win, the functionality of doing that at the college level versus Versus the NBA is pretty different.
- [47:15]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah. So I think like you have to. It's. The NBA game is so different from the college game. And, but what I think, where I think there's a lesson to be learned is in Rick Carlisle's willingness to evolve. Right. Like this guy's been an NBA head coach for a long, long time and yet he's, he's playing a very modern system. And I don't, obviously that wasn't necessarily the case with the Hoosiers the last couple of years. They had a guy who'd been a head coach for a long, long time who was adamantly set on, on his ways and, and even by his own admission, not really willing to evolve. I think it'll be different under Tucker Devries, but, but I think, I think where Carlisle, what has given Carlisle his longevity is that willingness to stay current, evolve with the times and play with incredible pace, a whole lot of three point shooting. That's not how you won when he first became a head coach, but he's been willing to evolve. And I think that's an important lesson not just for Indiana, but for any basketball program at any level. To make sure you are staying at the forefront of what's going on in the game.
- [48:26]
Matt Norlander
Chris Carnes, who sent a couple questions, I'm going to pick one that he actually emailed here. He said, I think it would be an interesting conversation and exercise to look back at the upperclassmen who came out who fell to late first or even second round picks like Brunson or Fred Van Vliet and many others. What kind of NBA team could you currently put together if you took guys who didn't have the high ceiling where the current NBA draft values the futures market and instead take guys that you know what you're going to get. Seeing Clayton now a projected late first round pick but he's the best current guard in the entire draft. We'll disagree on that. We'll continue. His ceiling might not be as high but his floor is way higher than others at the moment. I would think coaches would learn from that and know that what they're going to go and know what they're going to get in a player like him. What kind of team could you put together based on say all the Villanova guys and Andrew Nemhard and other players because you probably could have built a playoff team kind of unit with guys who can play right now. So that's his question and then I'll just interpret a little bit more. I think what he's getting at here is why do highly productive and successful college players who are a bit older and maybe some of them might be on your size, maybe some of them won't. Why. Why do they not? Why aren't we seeing at least a little bit of an adjustment in the draft market with guys like that not, you know maybe being projected or ultimately selected 5, 7, 10 spots higher than they otherwise would have been. I think this will be in play think this year with now I could ultix expose me. I think Clayton winds up going we've got him at 31. I don't think he has any business falling past 25. And I will say he goes 22, 23 or better. I think his championship run I actually think we will have a Jalen Brunson type effect. We'll see if that bears out to be true. But how do you interpret the question there and the general vibe of what Chris sent along.
- [50:07]
Adam Finkelstein
So if I could let me first speak to Clayton and then the general theme of the question. First of all Clayton I think is the single most underrated prospect on our big board. And I say that with the caveat from a scouting perspective there is no one of the big cardinal rules of March Madness is to not over value what you see late however yet did.
- [50:36]
Matt Norlander
You watch this dude?
- [50:38]
Adam Finkelstein
Well and. And yet here's the thing. And yet I think you can what he does I have him higher on my board not because of what he did in the NCAA tournament, but because of how his game fits into a more condensed NBA role. Like, he's not going to be the alpha scorer in the NBA, okay? But what he is is one of the very best shooters in this draft. What he is is now someone who has proven he has on off ball versatility because he played off the ball for three years. This year at Florida, Todd golden put the ball in his hands and he played the point. I'm not saying he's a pure point guard. I'm saying he can play both on and off the ball. That is also very coveted in the NBA. He has a durable, strong body. He was a very good high school football player who had division one recruitment in football. That's another thing that checks in. His favorite, the thing that's going to have to really improve is the defense. But the stakes are higher in the NBA. At Florida, he got on the court even with like a sometimes neutral defensive effort. That will not be the like, listen, they won the national championship. That's not a criticism in the NBA. The bar is going to be higher for him defensively. He's going to have to give a more consistent effort. And I think he will. As I alluded to, I think he's got enough size and the strength to be sufficient on that end of the floor. So. So that's why I have him higher. Not because he single handedly won three different games. I mean, people forget they almost lost a UConn in the second round before he went nuts. So it's not about that. It's about the shooting, the on off ball versatility, the physical strength. And that's why I think he is very clearly a first round pick. And to me, I'm starting to think about him and I know this is hot take ish at the end of the line.
- [52:20]
Matt Norlander
Are you gonna say lottery? You are gonna say lottery?
- [52:23]
Adam Finkelstein
I don't think he'll get drafted there. But if I was running a team and I was, you know, like if I'm Atlanta, if I'm San Antonio, if I'm Orlando, like heck yeah, I'm bringing them in. Well, Orlando doesn't have their pick anymore, but you know, like heck, heck yeah, I'm bringing him in and I'm working them out and I'm seeing how it goes. As to the question about the upperclassmen and let me just say this, put Nikola Jokic and Jalen Brunson on a team, you'd probably win the championship. So I think there's clearly some steals to be found in the second Round One of the lessons to be learned about the upside swings in recent years and I do think we're seeing the market start to reset on this is like the, the emphasis on undeveloped length and athleticism can be fool's gold, whereas the road less traveled of skill, feel and size can be, can, can be where you can find a sleeper. So, and processing ability as well. What did Jalen Brunson and Nikola Jokic have in common? An incredible acumen for the game and extreme skill sets. So that's where I think that, that you can start to see players who weren't necessarily like Ace Bailey type athletes but could really think and think the game at a high level, really play with the ball at a high level. And I do think you're seeing the markets. The fact that Khan Kneppel is being talked about as a third overall pick in the draft is evidence that the market is starting to recalibrate to that front a little bit.
- [53:53]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, some. I think that, I think that's fair. But Kinnapple is also, he was a guy who was, you know, projected into the lottery by the time we got to, I want to say like early December. I don't think my memory is failing me there. So it's a little bit different in terms of he's been there and then, you know, Duke, Duke was by the way, the best team in the country last season. I know Florida fans, but metrically speaking, that's where they, that's where they rated. Let's get three or four more here before we wrap up. Dan Weiner asked, do the Hawks take two bites of the apple or should they try and package their picks and trade up so not what you think they will do. If you were, if you were running Atlanta right now, think what would you do?
- [54:27]
Adam Finkelstein
Well, it's predicated on what they're going to do with Trey Young. Are they building Brown Trae Young or are they moving Trey Young? Right now it looks like they're building around him. So I would make two picks to try and support him as best I could. I thought it was ironic that the Hawks made a change in their management this year because I thought they've added some really nice pieces and specifically some kind of big two way wings. But, but you know, if so it is all predicated. What are we doing with Trey Young? If we're keeping him, we're building around him and we better pick accordingly. If we're moving him, then we need to take some swings. So that's, that's my answer there.
- [55:00]
Matt Norlander
It's the same have the 13th and 22nd pick in my mock I have Jaeger demon going at 13, big point guard. I might be a little ambitious there. And then I mentioned this earlier I had Berengy to Atlanta 22. He will not be there by the time we get to 22. So we'll see. We'll see in that regard. Next question Cgwami asks With the transfer portal creating greater incentive for NCAA programs to collect rent and retain more refined talent, has it become tougher for NBA scouts to find and evaluate potential projects beyond the known freshmen? With NCAA rosters shrinking, what's the best path for project quote unquote projects to develop?
- [55:45]
Adam Finkelstein
Has it become tougher? Yes, but it's not impossible. Again, like I think. I think abroad is still there's there's plenty of secrets and sometimes these secrets are hiding in plain sight. Look at somebody like Jimmy Butler, it's about like can they take the role they played in it's very rare that you're going to play the same role in the NBA that you played in college. That's why the archetype of the athletic rim running big is an easy transition because the role stays the same. So finding value comes down to finding someone who you think is going to have more success playing in a different role or who you think is going to have like accelerated growth in an area of his game that hasn't happened yet. So do you if you think Colin Murray Boyles is going to be able to shoot long term, then you have him much higher on your board and if he does shoot, you will be right. You know things like that. So I think the names are more well known at this point. But ultimately this is a the reason why there are still sleepers to be had is because the unexpected outcomes are a result of unexpected progress in their games. Very rarely on, you know, previously unknown prospects popping up like even and for everybody who was a second round pick and hit the Nikola Jokic is the Jalen Brunson's it wasn't that they were unknown, it's that no one foresaw the level of growth. I can't think of an example. I'm sure there are one. There is one. But of someone who was undrafted becoming a star like these guys were all known. They just their rate of improvement was far more accelerated than anyone anticipated.
- [57:30]
Matt Norlander
Fair enough. Andy Thompson asks where do you guys stand on Ryan Kalkbrenner's draft stock? Have seen so many varying opinions over the past few weeks and thinks he's in and I think he's one of the most undervalued prospects this year. Where do I stand on Kalkbrenner stock? I think it is, I think, appropriately slotted at this point. And I think his stock falls in the 25 to 33 range right now. At least that's the perception that I've received. And obviously I think if you go and look at mock drafts, he's going to be in that range. We have him 20, 27 on our overall prospect ranks. He's interesting in this regard. He's a true center. He's one of the best defensive players to come out of college basketball as a big. In the past 10 to 15 to 20 to 25 years. I mean, four time defensive player of the year in the Big East. Really like his ability to really tilt the floor and alter what college offenses were trying to do was, was undeniable. And that's, that was, that could be seen on, on the tape. But then I remember talking to a couple, you know, opposing coaching staffs and, and they would, they would, you know, agonize in a playful way over just like how much of a massive headache he presented in his ability to, to be able to really to muck things up on that end. I still don't think as a big, he was ultimately as productive as he should. Now he was a very, let me be clear, he was a very, very good college player. Obviously I actually thought he still had another level up to, to become even more dominant and he didn't hit that level. And so I think because of that, because there's, there's, there's a real lack of, of offensive output that's projected at the next level. That's why you're not seeing someone who on the defensive end is as great as he is projected even higher. I think he's destined to go somewhere mid to late 20s, if not maybe early 30s. But if I'm, if I'm a team sitting there between 25 and 20, 30 and he's on the board and I have a real need for defensive presence, like a good backup big. I, I definitely would take a swing. He's really, you know, we get into, you know, the things that go into a franchise and their draft boards and evaluating prospects and a variety of different things kind of matter to some, some things matter to some people and matter more to them than others. But you know, like, Ryan Kalkbender has been married for over. Like he's a full grown adult. Like he has been living in a, like he is ready to take this next step, step into his professional career. And my understanding is a lot of the background check stuff is going to really, it's going to pass significantly. So. And, and he'll rightfully be drafted, you know, mid to late first round. What are your thoughts on Kalk?
- [60:05]
Adam Finkelstein
You, you, you said mid to late first round. There you meant. I meant.
- [60:08]
Matt Norlander
I meant later. Yeah. Yeah. So I made the late 20s, not middle, late first round.
- [60:12]
Adam Finkelstein
So, yeah, I would say late first round. Early, early second. I would say this. Almost every NBA team strives to have someone like Kalkbrenner on their roster. Just a giant in the middle. So some of it is going to be situational. Like, do they already have one of him? If they do, they probably won't be interested. It's also going to be teams that prefer to play drop coverage are going to be more interested in him than others. Although I will say I think his defensive versatility is somewhat underrated. I've talked a few different times now about, like, the Marquette game where he's out switching on the Cam Jones and like, having more success than you would think. But nonetheless, the, the. The basis is going to be a team that plays drop coverage. Think like Walker Kessler type. Offensively, I will say this. If he shoots, there's. There's going to be clear value. Even if not, if he can, you know, provide that efficient finisher, that offensive rebounder, again, like Hulk Brenner, that's of value. The other thing I don't think we're talking about enough is that at Creighton, he has experience playing in a, in a very sophisticated playbook. So he's going to be able to come in and run wherever he goes. He's not going to have any problem running any of your stuff. And that's something that a lot of players, especially bigs, have to adapt to. Kalkbrenner is going to be great in that area. So, yeah, I think he's. And finally, the fact that so many guys went back to school because Ryan Kalkbrenner's prospectus this year isn't that different that long term than it was a year ago, than it was two years ago. But he's benefiting from the fact that the market has left less depth from 25 to 35 this year than it has in recent years.
- [61:55]
Matt Norlander
That's a good point. And yeah, I don't think he should fall out of the first. If he does, it won't surprise me. It will purely because of hesitation when it comes to his offensive versatility or lack thereof. One last question, then we'll get out of here. Thomas Dowdle wants to know who is the second round prospect with the most long term upside. It's an intriguing question given everything that we talked about near the start of the show. While there are. I look at projected second round prospects and I see a couple like, okay, we'll see, we'll see. I'm not overwhelmed by options here. I, I'm going to repeat a name I gave you about 10 minutes ago. I think Kobe Braya. If he gets into the right situation on the right kind of scheme and offense with the right coaching staff, I think that he can hit and he can be a guy that can step in, come off the bench and, and be a, someone who grows into, you know, a 43% three point shooter at the NBA level and be a real weapon. He would be my most likely. Chaz Lanier is not that far behind, frankly. I think he's got some, some real capability there as well. But who is the, who is the guy for you? Any, any second round prospect? You know, it doesn't have to be someone knocking on the door first round. I think if you, if there's someone that you think's got that 45 or lower kind of grade that you're, that you're in on more than anyone else, I'm interested to hear one or two names from you.
- [63:12]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, so I, I agree with you on Kobe Bryant. My, my thing in the second round is who's, who's an NBA player. And I don't mean that facetiously, I mean like legitimately who are you sure is an NBA player? Kobe Braya, I'm pretty sure is an NBA player. Cam Jones, I'm pretty sure is an NBA player. Janai Broom, I think has a future in the NBA, is just like a physical banger who can also like play out a dribble handoffs and pass a little bit more than we thought a year or so ago. I think the two Duke guys see on James and Tyrese Proctor are also NBA players.
- [63:44]
Matt Norlander
I find myself higher on Proctor as we get closer to the draft than I thought I would think.
- [63:49]
Adam Finkelstein
Yeah, yeah. The last name I will give you though, because the question was upside which to me implies like who's got the high is related to ceiling. I will get the name I will give you. There is, is and he could very well go in the first round. Ben Sarof, I believe. Big six foot five, six foot six lefty, primary initiator, one of, if not the best live dribble passer in the draft. So he's, he's got size, he's got strength, he's got creativity and floor vision. So highest ceiling of someone who could slip to the second round. I think he's in that conversation. The, you know, five or so players I mentioned from college basketball who I think are NBA players, I would also say if it's like, you know, highest floor in the second round, they would be in the discussion for me.
- [64:42]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, that second round, I feel like it's going to be even a little bit more of a free for all thank you than normal there. But I appreciate you hopping on the show, appreciate everyone that sent in questions. You know, we don't do. You know, this is kind of a different kind of show. We don't do an NBA draft mailbag every year. But we might try and institute and work this in, in the years to come moving forward. I think I appreciate you hopping on, doing a little relief pitching work while GP's enjoying a vacation. GP will be back next week. Me, him and KB Kyle Boone are going to do a mock driver draft pod episode. Fink's gonna have his mock draft go up Monday. There'll be a special on CBS Sports Network with Fink's mock draft an hour long. Be on the lookout for that. He's obviously part of our HQ draft coverage as well. Just tremendous insight and and I mean it, man. You're as, as well rounded, balanced and objective as pretty much anyone that does this. So it's awesome to have you on our team and I appreciate you adding and to the discourse and certainly upping the intelligence quotient on this podcast.
- [65:38]
Adam Finkelstein
That's very kind of you to say. I'm always, always happy to be on with you guys.
- [65:42]
Matt Norlander
You know that. Dig it. Well, thanks for everyone for watching, listening. Please subscribe to the show if you're not already. We've got some more draft content coming from you in the next week or so. And yeah, appreciate this so much. We will talk to you again with our mock draft episode on Monday. Me, GP and kb. Until then, take.
- [66:10]
Adam Finkelstein
Sam.
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