← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
’25 Summer Shootaround: Darryn Peterson will make sure Kansas won’t be a letdown for a third straight season
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Matt
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C.J. Moore
Possibility means you have a chance.
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Matt
Passion opens the door to all possibilities.
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C.J. Moore
When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy.
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Matt
I want to be an astronaut, an.
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C.J. Moore
Artist, be an actress to visit another country.
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Matt
All I need is a backpack and.
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C.J. Moore
A pair of shoes and I'll find.
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Matt
A way I'm able to do anything I set my mind to.
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C.J. Moore
I've never felt like more things are.
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Matt
Possible than right now.
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C.J. Moore
In the right shoes, anything's possible.
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Matt
Dsw countless shoes at bragworthy prices. Imagine the possibilities. Welcome back in to another summer Shoot around episode. Hey, however, you're listening in your dorm room, in the car, doing dishes, on a run. I'm a podcast run. Listen, that's how I usually do it. Yard work at the gym. However you're doing it, thanks again for taking the time to, you know, carve out part of your day to listen to our show. We appreciate that. And if you're not, you know, I try to mention this every so often. If you are like me and you get your podcast, for the most part you listen to them on your phone. Go head over to the YouTube channel for CBS Sports College Basketball. Subscribe there. It really does help the show. Or if you are watching us right now, I'll get to that guy right there on the right part of the screen in just a second. And you don't usually listen on the phone. Find us wherever you get podcasts. You know, Spotify, Apple, Overcast, Amazon, wherever. Subscribe Rate Help the show. We appreciate it. Today we've got another episode on a Blue Blood Lined up. We're going to talk Bill Self's Kansas Jayhawks. It's been a turbulent couple of years for the program, and there is a. There's a lot to get to here. Kansas status in the sport, I'd argue is. It's up for some debate. And in what is probably, I mean, almost definitely the winter of Bill Self's career, I think this could be a pivotal season in determining the direction of Kansas through the end of the decade. Fortunately, I've got the right guy to talk to. My guest today was at one point the best Hooper in all of college basketball media. I'm not sure if he still holds that title. Maybe we can determine that before the show's over. But he's a terrific writer, a lousy tipper, no doubt about it, can juggle with one hand. People don't realize that. And has jousted in the press room with me for one of the last writers to file in the dead of the night. He has covered Kansas hoops for more than a decade as a national college basketball writer for the Athletic. Ladies and gentlemen, it is C.J. moore. Welcome to the show, buddy.
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C.J. Moore
Lousy tipper. Where's that come from? That's hurtful. Thanks for having me, Matt. It's an honor.
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Matt
Hey, it's a. It's a pleasure to have you on the show, man. Seriously. I asked you because you're as well versed on Kansas as just about anyone I know, and there's a lot to get to here. And you were actually at Bill Self's media availability last week, which was his first since he had a heart procedure this summer. Floor is yours. And for our audience that might not be aware, just a quick catch up on takeaways from the presser, the health issue that Self actually had, all of it. And then we'll get into. You also had a recent sit down with. With a new staff member down there in Lawrence.
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C.J. Moore
Yeah, I was. I was there last week with Bill. I would say if. If, like you had. If you were somehow under a rock and didn't realize that he had had the procedure and you showed up that day, you wouldn't have known any different. Like, he seemed like himself. Looks. Looks good. I was, strangely enough with him the day that he went to the hospital. I was there in Lawrence visiting. That's when I reported the Jack Vaughn story. He seemed fine that day, so can't say I saw that coming. But I. I think that, you know, Bill's obviously had a lot of, you know, decent amount of health stuff the Last few years, but I. I think he's. He's in a pretty good spot and seems to be doing well. Said he could coach it. The team tomorrow if. If they had a game, and I believe that. So I think Kansas fans can kind of breathe a sigh of relief when it comes to. To his health that, you know, he's still only 62. It's not very old. I think he's gonna be all right.
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Matt
You were there, though. He had. Yeah, he had what I think with the school when they released this a few weeks back. Bill Self, fond of having a couple of stents put in to help with blood flow, but they called it. I'm gonna paraphrase here because I don't have the direct thing up in front of you, but, you know, a disturbing or a concerning incident. Basically, the day that he was prompted to go to the hospital, were you actually around him or like, you know, within the vicinity when that happened or had you left at that point?
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C.J. Moore
When I had looked, I had left. I left it. I'd been with him earlier in the day, so, yeah, when I got the random tip that that had happened, I was like. I was just with him. I don't think so. So that was a. That was a surprise. But, yeah, I. I think that he seems to be doing pretty well from. From. From my. You know, I'm no doctor, but. But, you know, we sometimes like to play them in.
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Matt
On.
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C.J. Moore
In the. In the media game.
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Matt
But the only doctor on this podcast is Gary Parrish. Let it be the only one.
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C.J. Moore
Dr. Parrish.
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Matt
Harmless speculation. How much longer do we think Bill Self will coach Kansas?
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C.J. Moore
I think. I would say five to six years. He'll be 63 in December. I don't think he makes it to 70. I think it's possible. I mean, I think he really loves coaching ball, and, you know, there's just some guys that don't want to retire. But I think he does want to retire at some point, and I'd kind of be surprised if he hits 70. So I'll go five, six years. What do you say?
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Matt
If you said 4.5 years, I think I would take the under. There are some in college basketball that just have kind of wondered if it was coming relatively soon, like this past year, year prior to this upcoming season. We'll see. I mean, the fact that he said he's feeling better now than he even felt when. Remember, Self couldn't even coach in the tournament a couple of years ago, and now he feels even better, I think is a really good sign. You sat down with Jacques Vaughn, who obviously played at Kansas, has plenty of experience coaching in the NBA and now he's on staff there in Kansas. I point, I'll point our listeners and viewers to go find that story@the athletic.com and read that. But let's spoil a little bit here. What's the story about? And did you ask him, is there a succession plan in place? Because whether Bill Self coaches one more year, three more years, or seven more years, filling his shoes will be near impossible considering everything that he's been able to do there. What were the big takeaways with your sit down with jock?
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C.J. Moore
Yeah, well, when it comes to succession plan, I thought that was an important question to ask Bill and especially after what happened last month. So I made it a point to pull him aside the other day after his press conference and be like, hey, you know, this is something people speculate on. The jock maybe got hired for this. What do you say? And he's, you know, he says, and I believe him and he looks you, you know, down the eye and like, hey, I'm only 62. I, I hired what I thought was the best guy. I don't have any thoughts of the succession plan. So I, I think he saw, I, you know, something he talked to me about before he even made the hire that I think he was really excited about the fact that he was going to be able to possibly land a guy who had been a head coach in the NBA multiple times and a guy who was a Jayhawk legend the fan base absolutely loves. So I, I think, you know, he got really excited by the possibility of just bringing him on his assistant. I don't think this was a succession plan type of deal. Now when the day comes and if Jacques still around and is still an assistant coach, I'm sure he will be in consideration. I'm of the belief when you're a Kansas, when you're a Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, you know, those programs have all gone in the family recently. But I, you know, I think you go out and you hire the best possible guy you can get. If you determine that's Jack Vaughn, great. But I wouldn't limit yourself to in the family. When you're a program with the resources and the history of a Kansas, you know, Bill Self obviously really wasn't in the family. Roy, you know, Roy Williams was not in the family. Now they had a little bit of in the family connections, but not exactly. So I think you just go hire the, the best coach. And if that's Jock, you know, we'll see. But you know, who, who know in a year from now, maybe Jack Vaughn's back in the NBA and, and decides, you know, that's, that's his calling, that's where he wants to be. But I think he's, you know, very interested in, in the college game and is, you know, really excited by the opportunity.
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Matt
Yeah, I think Kansas getting Jock Vaughn on the staff, I think it's a real big boost. There's a lot just going on connected to all this stuff. Even as we, even as we tape this, you know, Kansas is going to bring aboard Tony Bland who was at Washington this past season, was previously, you know, on a, on a show cause connected the FBI investigation back, you know, in 2018. But he was essentially cleared of, of all of that. And I know there was extensive, extensive double checking, triple checking to make sure all was good there. I don't know if that will be announced by the time this podcast public publishes and goes live. But you know, Norm Roberts retired and now Kansas has made some changes on its staff. And as it pertains to Bill Self and his future, I know some Kansas fans were gripping because this, the Kansas's bar on an annual basis is higher than anyone in college basketball or at least it has been and is. I am including Kentucky and Duke in that. And that is evidenced by what Self was able to do and has been able to do for the majority of his time there at Kansas. The streak of winning all those Big 12 regular season championships, which we're never going to see ever again in major college basketball. It's a streak that will not be broken. And now we've got, we've got a twist here in terms of roster changeover. And you know, Kansas fans started, I think not fairly but understandably started to wonder like does Bill still have it? Because the past two years the prophecy was fulfilled. They were the preseason number one team two years in a row they've never made the Sweet 16. Every single year that's happened and you see what failed to become with those two teams and there's been some real angst and some frustration. In 2024 Ku got a four seed but was 27th at Ken Palm lacked any and all depth. We know the rotation issues there, they couldn't fix it. Last year, 13 losses, the most ever under Self, seven seed, the worst ever under Self. They had the worst two year run in program that the program had seen in decades. And by some measures it was actually Kansas's worst two year run in essentially 40 plus years. That's what we're coming off of here. They got knocked out by seven points against Arkansas in the first round of the tournament. They didn't even get a win there right now, although it could be on the upswing or in the off season. This is the nadir of the Bill Self experience at Kansas. Again, the, the bar at Kansas is higher than anyone else. There are plenty of high major programs that if they had two, a two year run that Kansas has just had, it would be more than acceptable. Not the case here. 22 and 19 against Big 12 opponents the past two seasons. The Hunter Dickinson thing, he had some good stats. It did not correlate to winning on a big time level. The offense a season ago failed to crack the top 50 in efficiency at Ken Palm. Between him, Dejuan Harris, KJ Adams, other pieces, they just fell well short. CJ now we get a reset. One player of impact is back. We'll get to the roster stuff after the commercial break. But this team is not going to be preseason number one. It's not going to be preseason number two or three or four or five or six or seven. Maybe not even eight. What do you make of what Kansas has been versus what it can be or will be or should be this upcoming season?
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C.J. Moore
I mean they, they did a poor job of building the roster the last few seasons. I think, you know, in hindsight you can clearly see that now Bill will push back a little bit. Two years ago he feels like before Kevin McCuller got hurt, they had a chance to, you know, maybe be pretty good. That team beat Connecticut on its, on its good days it looked pretty good. But it had to like really everything had to go right. Same thing for last year, you know, beat Duke early. Everything had to really fall in the line and go right. For those teams, there wasn't a lot of room for error. Obviously they have not done, made good decisions in the Portal. I think they were more intentional this year in the Portal as far as finding guys that fit how they wanted to play, how Bill Self has traditionally played, wanting more athleticism, wanting guys that can really guard. I think they've seen kind of air in their ways of, of going and getting guys like Nick Timberlake or Rylan Griffin who defensively just don't fit a Bill Self system. So we'll, you know, it's, we can get into the roster in a little bit and it's to be seen if, if how that'll go. But there, there needed to be an identity change as far as, you know, what they're looking for in the, in the portal and how they build this thing out and they've, they've obviously, you know, tried tried to go a different way with, with this one. And we'll see how it goes before.
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Matt
We get to the break. It's trivia time. You ready for a trivia?
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C.J. Moore
Oh boy.
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Matt
Let's go. Let's go. When is that? So I mentioned how, you know, Kansas is not going to have a preseason top five ranking. Probably. Probably not preseason top ten. Although it's conceivable, you know, we'll see what the AP voters do. You look at a variety of off season top 25 type rankings and Kansas isn't populated in the top 10 of most of those. When is the last time, year, season KU did not crack the preseason AP top 10? CJ Moore.
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C.J. Moore
Okay, let's see here.
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Matt
Can you pull it out now?
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C.J. Moore
After the 20 season and 21, you would think they probably wouldn't have been, but I bet they still were up there.
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Matt
They were still up there. Yes. After the, after the. So after the 20, 2021 season. So going into 21, 22, is that what you're talking about?
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C.J. Moore
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would either be like 09 or 13.
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Matt
It's neither. In 09 they were preseason number preseason number one. Now 08. 0908 they were preseason number 24. But that's not the most recent.
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C.J. Moore
No, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. 0809 is what I'm talking about.
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Matt
Okay.
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C.J. Moore
And then so they weren't. Yeah, because 9, 10 they were juggernaut. Yeah. What were they on? 0809.
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Matt
0809 they were a preseason 24 which is the last time. They weren't Even preseason top 20 the last time and the only other time.
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C.J. Moore
1213 is what I'm talking about, Jeff. With the year they were 12 13.
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Matt
They were 7. 11 12, 2011, 2012 they were, they were 13th. They were 13th going into that season.
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C.J. Moore
That was a swing and miss by the media because that team was really, really good. Well, wait, 11, 11, 12. Oh sorry. 11 12.
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Matt
It was a swing and miss.
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C.J. Moore
That team made the title game. But the, the 1011 is what I was thinking about. I was first in my head I was going there because that team was way better than the 1112 team. Even though they lost you.
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Matt
Yeah, the, the 1112 team, 13th, which is still plenty respectable, just wasn't projected top time that season. But that team did make the title game, was a two seed of first team all American Thomas Robinson. On the roster, Tyson Taylor, Jeff with the Elijah Johnson lost the championship game to that great Kentucky team. But yeah, it's it's been a minute. I do think Kansas will be outside the top 10 in the AP top 25 when that gets made official in October. Is the reduction on expectations nationally, is that a factor in how this team will perform? Is it a good thing for Kansas? Who's on the roster? What is on on decker for year 23 and Lawrence for Bill Self? We'll get to that right after this break.
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C.J. Moore
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C.J. Moore
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- [19:19]
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- [19:50]
Matt
I will list off everyone who's gone and then I'll tee you up on the guys that are actually on the roster. That sound good?
- [19:57]
C.J. Moore
Perfect.
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Matt
All right, so here's who's no longer on the Kansas Jayhawks at least who had of some impact a season ago. There's a couple other bit players here that I'm not going to mention. But most notably Hunter Dickinson gone. Zeke Mayo gone. He was by the way almost averaged 15 points a game last season. Did Mayo. K.J. adams, long career gone. Dejuan Harris gone. Rylan Griffin, who was brought in to help fix three point woes, 6.3 points a game last season, he's gone. AJ Storr similarly gone. Six points a game last season. David Coy, five points per game. So they're all gone. Let's talk about who is here and let's start with who is back. So the notable guys who have spent time in a Kansas uniform that you think will have impact before we get to the transfers, before we get to the freshmen. And you better believe we're Talking plenty about Mr. Peterson here in just a second. Who's back and who's of note. Who do you think will be a factor on this roster this season?
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C.J. Moore
CJ well obviously Flory is the huge one went into the portal, there was rumors of Indiana, there was thoughts he was going elsewhere for KU to get him back. That was a, a big win this past spring. He is locked in and the starting center like there are, I think there's three givens in the starting lineup. We can get to that later. But Flori is one of them. Jamar McDowell Red shirted last year. You know, best case scenario he's on like that Travis Relford plan where red shirts in the middle of his career and you know, maybe ends up being a guy that really, really helps you his last couple of years. So Jamari, I'd see him as probably like the 11th guy on this team but he has a shot at real run if he beats out some guys, you know, that you would think maybe on the depth chart or in front of him and then the other one that you know, maybe some people have forgotten about but was expected a couple years ago to be a one and done first round pick. And you Know, thought of really, really highly coming out of high school, got hurt last year, last summer and sat out the entire season. El Marco Jackson is back. That's it. As far as scholarship guys that have, have been on the roster.
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Matt
Yeah, it's a significant change. El Marco, it's to see what he can be this season coming back. Is he him, does he emerge as a guy who really can transform and change Kansas into a top 10 level team or is he gonna, is it going to be a season where he's going to have his moments, you know, two steps forward, one step back in terms of recovery, development, you know, progression and then, you know, is his moment waiting for him a year from now when there isn't a potential number one pick on the roster? We'll see. Transfer wise, what do the folks need to know about who was brought in over the past few months in Lawrence?
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C.J. Moore
We'll start with a guy that I think is close to a lock to as a starter. Fourth school in four years, Trey White. They've been really, really happy with, with Trey this summer. Trey's not a great shooter, but he's, he's done a good job I think of hitting corner threes this summer. He can make them with, with time and his feet are set and just a guy that knows how to play. Has been around a long time. Played a, a type of rule at Illinois last year that I think he'll kind of play this year at Kansas. So like good glue type guy, can play that small ball four spot. Can also slide over to the three. So I think Trey is a guy that I would put in that front court as a projected starter. The other two, Melvin Council junior Played a ton of minutes last year for St. Bonaventure. Was probably one of the best 10 players in that league. You know, really, really fast guy self. Compared him to Tyson Taylor when they signed him. Bill thinks he's one of the big keys to their season this year. He's a guy, you know, they, one thing that bugged him last year is I think they didn't have guys that could get just off the dribble, just get past you, get his shoulders past you and get downhill. And Council is one of those guys that they brought in to do that. And then the other one is Jaden Dawson, shooter from Little Chicago. I think he was a second team a 10 guy, kind of a streaky shooter who can really, you know, when he gets going he can, he can pour it in. Pretty good athlete. I liked him watching his tape in the portal and he'll have a chance to potentially start. Although there's, there's somebody in that, that spot that you know, I think is has out played him this summer. We can get that here in a minute.
- [24:42]
Matt
Okay. Council average 15 a game or just shy of it with the Bonnie's like a slender two man. Dawson 14 a game with Royal Chicago. Trey White he's like a six, seven wing. These average double digit points last season with the Illini. So we've got who is returning who's new in the portal and then let's get to the newbies here and we're gonna typically save Darren Peterson. He's you know 6465 lead guard, number one player 247 sports potential number one pick. We're gonna save him for last. Okay so everyone else because Kansas actually has had an intriguing summer because it has brought on play or it did bring on players later in the process. So they've got a variety of, of of newbies and fresh faces here. I want your rundown on the guys and then who you think winds up being impactful, any starters in here if not you know, first or second guy off the bench. So among the the fresh face freshmen. Peterson aside, who's here and, and who should we expect to make some noise?
- [25:45]
C.J. Moore
All right, so I, I really like Cole Rosario. They signed him late in the spring. He got off to an awesome start in EYBL. I believe he played 7 games for CP3, was shooting the heck out of it. He runs the floor super, super hard, great in transition, pretty good bouncy athlete to me like self compared him to, to Christian Brown and then I pushed back on but I was like I think he's more like an Ochai. So I think you know, Kansas fans are getting a guy that's kind of like an Ochi 6 4, 65 ish, plays really hard, good offensive rebounder. I think he's the perfect Bill Self player because he's, he's simple, he knows what he, he does well. He likes shooting threes, he likes offensive rebounding and finishing at the rim. There's not going to be a lot of trying to shake dudes trying to go get his own. He's just going to fit in where he fits in and I think that he's you know, he had a really, really good summer. I think they were really pleased with how he played. He's what I would, you know, I would say would be the surprise maybe starter for them in that, in that three spot. Other guys they brought in, Sami's Calderon, who's kind of a project at 3,4 athlete type also I think a little further along than maybe they thought when they signed him. He's a guy that's got a shot at getting real minutes, but it's crowded. It's crowded on the wing. They've got a lot of bodies. I think they've got way more depth than they had last year. They've got 11 guys I think are capable of playing. Bryson Tiller is a guy that signed that came early last year. I think he came a semester, was hurt, so gotta, you know, see things and be around the program. Offensively, he's pretty skilled. I was talking to Bill this spring. He kind of compared him to the Morris twins a little bit. I got to see him this summer one time and, and offensively he's, he's pretty dang good. I think defensively he's got a little ways to go, but he gives their front court some depth. He can play both that four or five, probably more of a four. And then the, the new one that, that you were alluding to that came really late is Paul. And man, I, I don't want to butcher his, his last name.
- [28:01]
Matt
Join the group, buddy. Hop in the pool. Let's go.
- [28:03]
C.J. Moore
No, no. You ready for this? Okay, I got him saying it. Here we go. You ready?
- [28:07]
Matt
Let's go.
- [28:11]
C.J. Moore
Do we get that? That comes. All right, so, so Paul is a kid that was, was originally committed to NC State. Huge like 7 foot and I think he's got like some stupid like a 711 wingspan or something like that. 7 11, it's, or something. It's something ridiculous. You have to do a real time fact check on that. Yeah, I think his wingspan is, is very large. I'm maybe 7, 9, 711 would be crazy, but I know, I know it's, I know it's big. Let's, let's see here.
- [28:46]
Matt
Check it out while he does that. He is from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
- [28:50]
C.J. Moore
7 8.
- [28:51]
Matt
7 8. Okay. 7, 8 and 7. Vastly different. Fact check. And he played in, in a high level French pro league where he was definitely prolific. Yeah, keep going. But also, is he, are we thinking like this is a situation where Flori is playing like 27 minutes and he's playing 13 because they wouldn't play at the same time. Just what should, what should we be expecting out of him or is he still. I don't know. He was productive in a really good international league. I, I have to assume he's going to get real burn here.
- [29:20]
C.J. Moore
Yeah. No, I, I think he will. I think he plays like maybe 15 minutes a game or something like that, but maybe could be higher depending on how he does. Excuse me, but Flory will play some four, just like he did last year with Hunter. I think he'll play a little. I mean, I think he'll major most of the time he'll be at the 5. But I do think, you know, especially if Paul is, is a guy that demands minutes based on how good he is and I haven't seen him live yet, but I do think Bill will throw out some, some big lineups with Florian him together. Bryson will combine with one of those guys and you know, they'll have big lineups then. But I also think they're going to have times where they obviously, I think they'll start small with Trey at the 4. I think you could see scenarios where like Jaden Dawson plays some small ball four. So he's, he's got a lot of Sami's. Calderon could also play some four. I think Keys, you have to fact check me out here. I think he's like six. Sami's is like six, eight. But he's, he's kind of that three, four, more of a four type in college. So they have a variety of lineups that they can definitely throw out there. The, the two battles I think in the preseason that are most interesting to watch will be the. Whoever starts next to Peterson at guard. I think he'll throw a combo guard out there and I think it'll either be Melvin Council junior Earl Marco Jackson. I'm a slight, maybe lean to Marco, but I think that one's really, really up in the air. Could go either way. And then Cole Rosario and Jaden Dawson, like they're going to want a bona fide shooter in the starting lineup. One of those guys will go out, will be out there. The other will be one of the first. You know, whoever loses those two position battles will probably be, you know, maybe the first two off the bench. I'm a Cole Rosario lean right now. Just, I really think he f. Well.
- [31:17]
Matt
Next to Peterson, keep in mind Cole Rosario, yeah, just, you know, 72nd in his class, decided to reclass and then and jump on in. But just, you know, for folks that might not be aware, you know, we're not talking about a guy who was, you know, a five star, top 15 player in the class. That doesn't mean he won't be really, really good and can't be that immediately if indeed he's a perfect Bill Self kind of player. He can do that. I know when he decided to do this in and hop on board at KU and Reclass and all that, there was a lot of excitement there. And I. And while this can be the case for a lot of teams from where they are on roster wise April 10th versus where they look up and they are on June 10th, I know Kansas's situation. I think, I think fairly you could it just drastically improved to where I think because I still think Bill Self is among, you know, the three best coaches in the sport. Sorry, I don't think he's lost it. I think Kansas as a top 10 team has a real case here. Now let's get to Darren Peterson because it all is about this guy. He is someone who Bill Self has claimed is I, I'm not going to say as I think he has said Peterson is the most talented recruit he has ever brought into Kansas, which is hello. And billsoft doesn't speak like this when he says these things. It's not like, oh, you can go back to six other times when he said this over the past, you know, 12 recruiting cycles or 12 seasons or whatever. Doesn't, doesn't talk like that. So when he says that, it really pops. Now you and I both saw Peterson plenty as a recruit for anyone watching or listening that hasn't seen him yet. Cj, you take it how you know I could, but you're the guest here. I want you, I want you to, to step up and shine. How would you describe Darren Peterson's game? What are your expectations of him this season and is he truly a talent that is good enough to be the best player in the sport, to carry Kansas to a sea line or two better than it otherwise would be if he wasn't on the roster to get Kansas this upcoming season. The places that Kansas fans hope they would be the past two seasons when obviously they had that gaudy preseason ranking.
- [33:22]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, you're always hesitant to get too crazy in the hyperbole with freshmen, but he is a special one and I believe what Bill has said is something to the effect of he is the most prepared, like ready to come in and be impactful as a freshman that he's ever had. I think that's kind of been his phrasing and, and I, I agree. I mean I, I think that watching him play, it's like, and, and watching him with this current Kansas group, it's, it's like we were watching a guy that's like a senior that has really been around and, and understands how to play and how he should play. He's a really, really good score, but that's not what makes him special. What makes him special, I think, is he sees the floor incredibly well. He can make all the passes. He just understands how to actually make, you know, a lot of these. Like, I'll use the. Bance is an incredible talent. Right. But does, does, like, what does AJ do to make others better? We'll see. Like, you know, I, I don't know right now. We'll see. I think he's going to be a really good college player, but, like, he's a good individual talent. I think this kid will make everybody else around him look really, really good. I think Flory is going to really benefit from playing with him. And, and, and, and like this is his and Flor's team. And, and Flor is, is walking around like a guy too. Like, I know this, we'll get back to Peterson, but Flor is walking around like a guy that, like, hey, it's my time now. This is my group. He's got like an edge to him that I don't know that we saw last year that I think he's in for. You know, he's about to have a really, really good sophomore year. And I think as a pick and roll tandem, like, I think they'll be terrific because Peterson is going to be able to throw those lives. He's going to be able to, to read the, the MiG at the basket and say, hey, you know, he's helping. I'm going to throw it out to Rosario. And you know, he can, he can make a three. So I do think the pieces are kind of fit well for the most part around him. And I think he's going to be terrific.
- [35:29]
Matt
Yeah, he's, he's certainly got a chance to be the best player in the sport. Don't know if he will be or he won't. You know, Braden Smith might wind up being this, the most impactful guard in the sport, but Peterson has a grace and physicality combo as a lead guard that is not common, particularly, particularly as a freshman in college basketball. I'm not going to call him unique. I'm not going to say he's one of one, because I don't think that would be an accurate description. But there will be a magnetism to his game that will be undeniable. And we have a very good freshman class again. So this is two straight years in a row in particular with college basketball, where it had, it had a lull and had a dip, no doubt about it. In Terms of one and done talent and pop and big names and just charismatic players. We had it last season and we'll get it again next season. We're going to have seven or eight first year players that are going to step in and you're going to want to watch them and they're going to be highly productive. And Peterson, because of what he's going to be asked to do and because of his physical capabilities and his on floor IQ and what he can do and he's got as good of a chance as anyone as a first year player to really step up and pop. But I, C.J. i'm so glad you brought up with Flory because I agree with you because there is a lot of, there is a lot of hope that Flory is going to be a guy that is going to emerge and not be a completely different player, but you're just gonna see someone that's, you know, grown in an all around game perspective like three, four sizes from what he was a season ago. And I think those two, their alchemy on the court I think is going to be big. All the other pieces, all the other players we talked about, yes, they all have to contribute in order to have Kansas be a Big 12 title contender, to get back into the conversation, to be a potential one, two or three seed. But to me it really is the nucleus of, of Peterson truly taking command. Can he do it as a freshman and Flory making the jump that we expect him to make now? He's going to have, he's going to have good competition in terms of other guys that are going to be, that are going to be there, Tiller and be and what they can do and what they can produce. But to me it comes down to those two and how they play off each other. Have you gotten a chance by the way, and like is Bill let you or others in the media just get a chance to really see them in a full sweat using drills? Have you at least gotten a, to see some sort of concept with this to this point or is that to come later this fall?
- [37:51]
C.J. Moore
I, I did see a scrimmage and, and Peterson was really good and, and Flory looks bigger and he was dunking everything. Their defense wasn't too far along yet, I'd say, but offensively they look, they look pretty good.
- [38:08]
Matt
Okay. Defense wasn't too well, you know, that's.
- [38:11]
C.J. Moore
But, but he's excited about the defense. He's excited about the, the length and athleticism and speed and part of it was just like guys getting picked apart and picking a roll. You know, those coverages aren't really put in yet in, in July, but it's gonna happen. But, but I, I do think defensively they have a chance to be way better. They're gonna, they're gonna be way more aggressive. You know, they had to, they had to hide Hunter the last couple of years.
- [38:34]
Matt
Yeah, even like Hunter even had like a couple of moments where it was good. But you know, defensively I actually thought Kansas held its own for the most part. Was it top tier? No. But Bill Self surprisingly high metrics. Yeah. Yeah. They actually, sometimes you'd almost. It's why the analyst can actually help you. Like sometimes you don't believe you know what you're. What's telling you when you're watching the games. But you know, Kansas was a solid defensive team and this, now this group has a chance to be, you know, top five, top seven, top eight. If all the pieces come together. I think that's, I think that's fair. Let's, let's keep it moving and let's go to the schedule portion where we're going to look at the non con. The Big 12. We're going to do a win prediction. You know how this whole thing goes, right?
- [39:15]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, I've listened to a few of them. Preparation.
- [39:18]
Matt
There we go. Okay. There we go. Are you subscribed? C.J. more. Are you subscribed to the pod? Can you do that?
- [39:24]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, I. I am.
- [39:25]
Matt
Okay. Appreciate that. You can. You know what? If you want to rank me three stars for the, for the, you know, the cheap.
- [39:32]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
- [39:35]
Matt
All right.
- [39:35]
C.J. Moore
I'm a cheap ass if you talk to my friends. There we go.
- [39:39]
Matt
We sussed it out. Okay. Kansas is non conscious. Eight games of note here at North Carolina. Here. This is why I love Bill Self. He has two high major non conference road games. And while you can find some here or there, that is not the expectation he gets. Yep, that's right.
- [39:59]
C.J. Moore
Coaches.
- [40:00]
Matt
Yeah, exactly. And there's been. We've talked about this on a few shows, but we've got a really, really good non conference across the board in college basketball. Kansas hobby helps provide for that. So at North Carolina on November 7th. That's the first week of the season. Then the next game of note is November 18th. Duke, Madison Square Garden. And just as a reminder, this hasn't been brought up yet on the shoot arounds. Yeah. Champions Classic, which used to open the season is now two full weeks into the start of the season. Not the worst thing in the world. I did like it when it was early. But essentially those schools lobbied to ESPN to get that bump back. They won that battle season is now starting earlier in November as is. So Champions Classic happens later. That's the second big game. Then they're going to be in the players era. That's November 24, 26. Now they've got, they've got Notre Dame and Syracuse first. And then to be determined, theoretically this sets up Kansas to play for the title because Notre Dame and Syracuse aren't projecting NCAA tournament teams. If Kansas gets the job done, there's going to be a lot of teams that go 2 0. But you get into the title game based on your margin of victory. So if they really rock it like it's, it's kind of on A T for KU. We'll see if they can do that. They host UConn on December 2nd. They will go to UConn the season after this one. That's a two year series. But they host the Huskies again. They play Missouri and Kansas City on December 7th and then they are at NC State on December 13th. Love to see that. That game was scheduled before Will Wade was even the coach. But now it sets up with even more intrigue overall. So that is the non con games of note. And then in the Big 12 we still do not have the Big 12 schedule. Maybe we'll get one by next week, but I actually think we're still two weeks out from getting that Big 12 schedule. We'll see if they can get it done behind the scenes. Scenes here relatively quickly. The two plays for Kansas this season, Arizona, Iowa State and then of course K State. I think if you're a Kansas fan all told. Okay, nice home. Only Baylor, byu. Remember they went to BYU last year and got trounced. So BYU comes back, they don't do a, they don't do a two play there. Cincinnati, Houston, TCU and Utah road only Arizona State, ucf, Colorado, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech. There you go, West Virginia. But there's really only one roadie as it stands right now where it's, you know, not that they can't get picked off here there, but there's really just the Tech one is the only one from a road standpoint that stands out. 31 game regular season for one more year. C.J. moore, what is Kansas record when they head into the Big 12 tournament?
- [42:33]
C.J. Moore
All right, so that Big 12 schedule is pretty advantageous for, for them, I.
- [42:37]
Matt
Think I would agree with you. Although they get, they, you know, Arizona, Iowa State, they got a handle. And then K State you know, it's tough going on the road, but all told, I think you're happy if you're a Kansas fan. Yeah.
- [42:46]
C.J. Moore
Yeah. So we'll. We'll go with the. The law. We'll count it out. The losses I like. I think between the North Carolina and Duke game, they probably drop one of those. Okay. Between the players era, let's call it championship, which I'd say they probably gonna play. Like I looked at it, I'm gonna guess a Michigan or a St. John's is the opponent in that one.
- [43:09]
Matt
It could be Houston. We'll see.
- [43:11]
C.J. Moore
Can they play Houston?
- [43:13]
Matt
Yes. As I understand it right now, they could still theoretically play Houston. Whether.
- [43:18]
C.J. Moore
Okay, but. Yeah, yeah, but let's say positive. I was, you know. Yeah, yeah, let's. Either Any of those three.
- [43:26]
Matt
Those.
- [43:26]
C.J. Moore
That's a really freaking tough game.
- [43:28]
Matt
Yes.
- [43:29]
C.J. Moore
Between that and UConn at home, I say one of those two is probably lost. Like they go one and one in that stretch. I'll say they beat Mizzou at T Mobile. I'll say they win at NC State, but that's a tough one. That could be easily be a loss. I'm gonna say one loss between the home games. Arizona, byu, Houston or Iowa State. I said they dropped one at home. And then I'm going to say their road losses are Texas Tech, Iowa State, Arizona and probably one more and put them at 13 and five in the Big 12, 24 and seven entering the Big 12 tournament. Probably sitting two, three seed at that point.
- [44:08]
Matt
Okay. Two years ago, two years ago, Kansas going into the Big 12 was 22 and nine last season, 20 and 11 heading into the Big 12 tournament. That's not going to be the situation this year. I think that this team is, I do think, not having this preseason number one expectation, having some turnover. You know, I haven't talked to Bill about this at all yet, but I have to imagine this guy is going to be hell bent on reminding the college basketball world who's who and what's what. And Kansas is going to get it. It's going to get back into gear. Listeners to the summer shoot around know that I sometimes. I sometimes lean to be a little less optimistic. Almost just as a hesitation. I'm not going to do that with Kansas. I'm going to also. This is two shows, two guests in a row with the same record. We're going to agree, I'll say 24 and 7, but a very good 24 and 7. The non con is so competitive that they're going to take some losses and there's no shame in it when they do whether it's two or three and then they figure it out in Big 12 play and they are I'll say Kansas is no worse than tied for second in the Big 12 in the regular season this year. I love how this schedule sets up for them. I think they are going to make a big bounce back. I just, I and a lot of it is based on believing in Peterson and what he can be, what he will be. El Marco Jackson was a guy who before he even committed to Kansas I was big on as a long term college player and I think that he will show and be a real impactful player after obviously missing last season the entire season due to injury. So we are on the same page there. 24 win season for Kansas 24 and 7 going into the Big 12 tournament. I think there's even a chance during the conversation as one of the final one seeds if not yet. That's two seed territory and I think it's a strong, I think it's a strong return there overall before we get to Big 12. Just real quick the point I just made. CJ maybe you think it doesn't mean anything but just not having it's Kansas on a certain level you're going to have a target. I get that. But there is a difference. Like if the AP poll comes out in Kansas is say 14th in the country or 12th. That's different than having a one, a two or a three. If they're 14th they're not going to be the preseason pick to win the league. Do you think that benefits Self, the staff? A lot of these players didn't have to experience this the past couple of years. But I wonder if you think that stuff matters at all heading into the season.
- [46:37]
C.J. Moore
I'm. I lean towards the side of it doesn't matter that much. Like we were just you know the media was dumb last year that high.
- [46:46]
Matt
I by the way I was not on that train. Just I want to make that perfectly. I think I had them like Iowa State. I was not on the Kansas as the best team in the turn I.
- [46:54]
C.J. Moore
Had them like maybe preseason five or something like that. I can't remember so I was, I was too high as well. But yeah the group think was was off. I I do think that you're right in that Bill Self is going to be very motivated to tell everybody that he hasn't lost anything. He still got was just a you know two. It was two but it was two outlier seasons in in what has been his history of having really, really consistently good teams year in and year out. So, yeah, hopefully we, we both look smart here in the 24 and 7. Looks hard. Although, I think, you know, I. I'll go back your, your last episode I listened to. You guys are too low on Louisville. I think that might be one of the best rosters. I think that might be one of the best rosters in college basketball.
- [47:44]
Matt
Okay. Thought I was pretty ambitious. Listen, Parish has him like 18th. I don't know what you want.
- [47:48]
C.J. Moore
I don't know what he's doing there.
- [47:51]
Matt
We'll get Louisville fans that you're listening. If you're dialed into the Kansas episode, don't worry, GP will have plenty of time to talk on his Cardinals. Fear not. All right, Big 12, let's wrap with this. Last season, ranked third in Ken Palm. This is after it was the number one conference the three years prior and, you know, for the majority for many of the past 12 years, the Big 12 was number one. It was not that last year. It's inarguable. It had seven bids to the tournament. It did have Houston, which almost won the national championship, but it didn't win. So 25, 26. Take a stab. How many, how many bids for the league and where do you think it falls by year's end? 1, 2, 3? It's kind of hard to picture how the Big 12 could be fourth or worse. So 1, 2 or 3 Big 12 conference strength this season.
- [48:35]
C.J. Moore
So I think the league is. Is better. I'll say. You said eight, seven teams last year, right?
- [48:40]
Matt
Yeah, seven. Houston was a one, Tech of three, Arizona four. BYU was a six, Iowa State was a three, Kansas was a seven and Baylor was a nine. And then West Virginia controversially didn't make it in.
- [48:51]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, I think that all the teams that made it last year will make it again. And then you'll have one more get in, whether that's West Virginia, K State, Cincinnati, probably one of those three. I think Colorado could maybe be sneaky and be decent again. Okay, we'll see. But no, I, I think the league from top to bottom is better, but the Big Ten and SEC are still really, really good. So I'm going to say the Big 12 is probably third, but could maybe be in that two spot. And, and I'll say maybe the Big Ten hops over. The SEC this year is. Is number one.
- [49:31]
Matt
Okay, that's a sneaky little spicy take. I'll take that spice. Houston Tech, Arizona, byu, Iowa State, Kansas are all getting back to the tournament. You said all of Them will make it back. Baylor should and turned over its entire.
- [49:45]
C.J. Moore
Yeah, that one's. That one's up in the air. But we'll see. I'll believe in Scott Drew but.
- [49:50]
Matt
Yep.
- [49:50]
C.J. Moore
But there's something. Yeah. Well that's it. We'll see.
- [49:52]
Matt
No doubt about it. This. No doubt. West Virginia. We wait and see. Ross Hodge, really good coach. Can he make some impact? Year one Kansas State, you would think they won't be what they were last year when they were a huge letdown. A lot of changes there. Cincinnati hot seat season for West Miller. We'll wait on that and then. Yeah. Colorado, Arizona State not expect to be that good. Oklahoma State, Steve Lutz is a good coach. Can you, you know, will there be a team that will Alex Jensen in year one immediately make an impact, you know, in this very league? Kevin Young was a year ahead of schedule. I mean they were a 60, 26 win team. Will you get something like that in the Big 12? I'm not sure but I do think they will have at least eight bits. I do think the league will be improved this year. You look across the board and it was a slight step back. So we'll, we'll wait and see. Please go read CJ Moore stuff. I mean this. He is one of the best writers in America. Does a wonderful job chronicling college basketball over at the Athletic. More than happy to have him on and talk and talk Kansas and all that good stuff. Always look forward to. To anything he writes. Very, very versatile. Can write on the xnos. Really good feature writer. Keeps up with a ton of stuff that do good work over there. And hey bud, I appreciate you having you on the show. Are you the best? Hooper still in college basketball media? I did not play the media pickup game last year. So I need a, I need a quick rundown where you stand in the overall hierarchy.
- [51:11]
C.J. Moore
You know, I think I'm up there. Isaac Trotter, right?
- [51:14]
Matt
Yes.
- [51:15]
C.J. Moore
24 7.
- [51:16]
Matt
Yeah.
- [51:16]
C.J. Moore
Very, very NCBS.
- [51:19]
Matt
He's also, I mean it's like 26.
- [51:22]
C.J. Moore
He's a young buck. Yeah, he's a young buck. We were on the same team. We ran things this year. You know the, the my guys, three man weave. All, all part of the, every part of the weave can play.
- [51:37]
Matt
They can but I think, I think the aging process is catching up to them faster than they, than they would.
- [51:42]
C.J. Moore
It looked good. I think two of the three of the weave were there last year. They, they still, they still looked good. But, but I'm, I'm still playing, you know, three times A week, sometimes four maybe.
- [51:52]
Matt
So I still got it dedicated to the game, man. Love to see it. Yeah, no, that's. That's good stuff. I was not able to make the media pickup game in San Antonio. We gotta Hinkle Indy next year. Gotta make it happen.
- [52:07]
C.J. Moore
Running it now.
- [52:09]
Matt
You're in charge.
- [52:10]
C.J. Moore
I'll make sure that happens.
- [52:11]
Matt
Make sure that happens.
- [52:12]
C.J. Moore
And if anybody at Butler's listening, I.
- [52:16]
Matt
Will make the call to make sure that happens. But if, if ever like the one that ever like the one where we don't have to worry about getting people to show up is we're running a pickup game at Hinkle like that.
- [52:25]
C.J. Moore
Legendary.
- [52:26]
Matt
That is. Yes. Correct. Got to do that back in. It's been a minute now. Got that 2015 because the 21 tournament was an indie, but hello, Hinkle was hosting the tournament. It was Covid. We couldn't do it. So. Looking forward to getting that back. This has been a long episode, but it's been worth it. Kansas is super fascinating. You can follow CJ Moore on Twitter and on Blue Sky. I appreciate you joining, buddy, and I look forward to seeing you down the way. Maybe even maybe we'll see at the Big 12 media day later this fall.
- [52:52]
C.J. Moore
Thanks man. Appreciate you having me on.
- [52:54]
Matt
No problem. Gary, Paris and I are going to reconvene. We are going to get back together. The next episode will have both of us on. You can look forward to that. Won't be too long, but till then, take care. Paramount Podcasts.
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Matt
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Matt
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