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Eye On College Basketball
’25 Summer Shootaround: Mystery Team No. 2 is knocking on the door of Top 25 status
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- [00:00]
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- [01:03]
Gary Parrish
Whoa, when did I get here?
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Gary Parrish
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Gary Parrish
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Matt Norlander
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- [01:45]
Gary Parrish
There's Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports I own College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting dodo birds and leaky black. Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies and if you haven't yet, subscrib to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel. Please also do that while you're here. Let's get into it. Today we are continuing our summer Shoot around series with the second of three auction episodes. All proceeds from the auctions going to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, located about five minutes away here in downtown Memphis. Jeremy Williams was the winning bidder this time. Appreciate him coming through for the children at St. Jude and the team Jeremy wants us to discuss is the Virginia Cavaliers, led by first year coach Ryan Odom. Before we look ahead, let's do a quick recap. Virginia last season went 15 and 17 under interim coach Ron Sanchez after Tony Bennett, of course, retired in October. 15 and 17 overall, 8 and 12 in the ACC. Needless to say, the Cavaliers did not make the NCAA tournament. They subsequently hired Ryan Odom from vcu from that team. Everybody's gone, basically. Elijah Gertrude, only scholars who stuck around, and he didn't even play last season. As you likely know, Ryan Odom, he got into the transfer portal, added enough pieces to get the Cavaliers up to number 35 at Bart Torvik's preseason ranking. So I'm going to get Norlander's thoughts on that next. But first, let's get a word from our partners.
- [03:14]
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Matt Norlander
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Gary Parrish
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- [04:51]
Matt Norlander
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- [05:18]
Gary Parrish
Games excludes digital only games and commercial.
- [05:19]
Matt Norlander
Use terms and embargoes apply.
- [05:20]
Gary Parrish
Availability varies. All right, Norlander Virginia is a top 35 team in the country in year one under Ryan Odom. Do you love it or do you loathe it?
- [05:29]
Matt Norlander
I don't loathe it. I think I like it plenty. I think by the time I get to ranking these these teams, which we're getting closer and closer. September is here, folks. September is here. College basketball's preseason official practices will start here before you know it. And then we're into October. We're really ramping up and that's when I'll do my top 101 teams heading into the season. I'm looking over the roster GP I'm pretty sure I'll have Virginia somewhere in that top 35. I like it. This is the first high major team we're talking about on shoot around series that isn't NGP's top 25. And one part of that is he's hated Odom for years. We're going to get to that before the end of the show. But I do like Virginia overall. I like what oda's been able to do here. Also want to give a shout out, by the way, there was another Virginia bidder named Sandy and so Sandy and Jeremy were kind of going back and forth against each other in the bidding process and then these two gentlemen didn't know each other and then at some point they started messaging each other in their bids saying, hey, if one of us wins, can we split the bid? And then they agreed to it. And then I think Jeremy just said, ah, whatever, I'll just pay the whole, the whole freight. So I want to give a shout to Sandy. Regardless. He did reach out as well. UVA fans, you had a couple of backers here that we're going to make sure your wahoo's got talked about in year one under Ryan Odom before we get into the team. Just a general curiosity, you ever been to Charlottesville? I've been there, obviously a number of times, but I wonder if you've actually stepped foot Inside. Inside the town, the city that birthed the great Dave Matthews Band.
- [06:53]
Gary Parrish
I don't think I have. I think I might have flown. Well, okay, so I think I flew to Charlottesville to then drive to somewhere else. Would that make sense?
- [07:03]
Matt Norlander
It wouldn't. Although Charlottesville does have. Even among small airports, Charlottesville is the best airport I've ever flown through. It is. It is tremendous. But you wouldn't really like. You would go to Charlottesville maybe to go to Richmond, like Odom, you know, he makes the move from VCU to, to uva and it's an hour's drive. Like it's. It's not that big. That's really the only reason why you would have probably done. Unless you went.
- [07:25]
Gary Parrish
Did I go to James. Is it possible that I drove to James Madison from Charlottesville?
- [07:29]
Matt Norlander
I guess it's possible. I don't know why you would. Why do you think you would have gone to James? I don't know.
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Gary Parrish
I don't. Oh, I was at James. I did a game. I did a Virginia James Madison game. I was on the sideline for it. I've been to James Madison. I think I've been. I know I've been in the state of Virginia. I think I've been to Charlottesville, but I can say definitively I've never been to a basketball game in Charlottesville.
- [07:47]
Matt Norlander
Well, nevertheless, shout out to Bodo's Bagels. Miller's obviously right there on the downtown mall, the Pink Warehouse, the Dairy Market, great spot there in Seville. And yeah, that. That's an elite airport there. I'm. If you're watching on YouTube, obviously representing the Matthews and Plenty. Got the shirt on, got an album behind me. Yeah, big time, big time stuff. They're happy to. Happy to talk about Ryan Odomist team. Let's get to Odom. Career record 222 and 127. He's won 63.6 of his games. That includes when he was an interim for a little more than half a season with Charlotte, well over a decade ago. He coached a year in D2 at Lenoir. Ryan, five years at UMBC, two at Utah State in the past two at VCU. This. We talked about Odom plenty on our April coaching carousel recap episode. And we thought coming out of that episode, we thought he was just one of the three best fits overall among the entire carousel. And that's reflected as you watch and listen to this GP and I have just about wrapped up our candid coaches surveying that series will publish in September. And as we ask every year to a litany of coaches. You know, who is the best coaching hire? High major coaching higher this cycle. I'm not going to spoil any of the returns we've gotten so far, but I will say Odom's gotten a few votes on my end and, and pretty much everyone that has voted for Odom has done so. Not just because he's a really good coach, but they think it is an amazing fit and the kind of place where if he hits, he could be there as long as Tony Bennett was there. If he hits, we'll see if he can, we'll see if he can hit. Before I toss it back to you, I just want to put a little bit in, bit in perspective here on what Odom is inheriting. You know, the last, last season I, I'm guessing you looked this up, but it actually surprised me. GP last season Virginia was 106 at Ken Palm. Did you know that's the lowest the team has ever finished in the history of that metric? The lowest. They had a few years where they were like right around 100, 103, 104, but they never finished as low as 106 in the, in the one and done Ron Sanchez era, if you will. They're trying to recover from, you know, losing Tony Bennett, who retired, you know, relatively abruptly last October. But even before that, you know, Bennett had a team that barely made the tournament that got trounced in Dayton. That team was 23:11. It's coming off of as rough of a two year stretch overall as the program has seen in more than 15, maybe 20 years. And Odom arrives with a lot of optimism in spite of that. He was the presumptive candidate to get this job for weeks before he actually got it. And it makes a lot of sense why he's here. His father, Dave coached. There was an assistant in Charlottesville in the 80s. He was, you know, again he coached at VCU. It was, it was practically right down the road. But there is an immediate bump expected in year one and I, I find the situation in Seaville very interesting. Odom and his program got well, more than north of 10 million in nil resources and funds for this upcoming cycle. There is an expectation in Charlottesville in year one. This will be a top third team in the ACC. So 18 teams, a top six team in the league. I'd agree with that. I think that expectation is fair. Parrish. And then I think the ultimate goal for Odom is beyond that. It's to, in a broad, you know, big picture sense, you know, over the next five years, you know, half decade or whatever. It's to get Virginia into that spot where it is a. No doubt about it. This is one of the four best operating programs in the acc. Obviously you want to be number one and number two, but just, you know, as a floor when you talk about the best programs in the acc, we're going to be in that top three, top four. That's what, that's, that's why he's hired. That's why there's a lot of optimism there before we get into the roster rundown. And Jeremy sent in a question I want to get to as well. Just quick synopsis, recap from you, maybe an extenuation on, on the conversation we had on Odom from back in April. I know you like the, like the fit a lot here, but he's got an unusual position. He's taking over at a spot that had not been good the past two years, but has been given a ton to work with immediately. And so with that doesn't come low expectations that it is step in and we want immediate results and into the tournament with without any shadow of a doubt in year one.
- [12:04]
Gary Parrish
None of these things are guaranteed to work, but often there is an obvious thing you should do when you have a vacancy and I think that was true at Virginia. This was the hire. I'm not saying it would have been crazy to look anywhere else. I'm just saying this, this, this made sense. Should say just I imagine we got some Virginia listeners and watchers who maybe aren't normal consumers of the ion college basketball podcast. If so, welcome in. Come on. I don't actually hate Ryan O him. That's just a joke type thing that we do. The backstory is Norlander hates Nico Medved.
- [12:39]
Matt Norlander
And actually behind that is that GP hates Shaka. Smart. Continue.
- [12:43]
Gary Parrish
And. And so he tries to make rhinodom out to be my personal Nico Medved.
- [12:48]
Matt Norlander
Let's just keep it moving. But yes, there will be if you had not said that, hell, it doesn't even matter that you said it. There will be people that parachute in this episode that'll just believe it regardless. And I've, I now I've affected those people forever. And they're going to always think that.
- [13:01]
Gary Parrish
You hate Rhinoda, which is you, Ryan Odom to be. To be my own personal Nico Medved. And he's not going to be sometimes on Twitter I'll just look, I'll just like wake up, look at my phone and it'll be like, well, Parrish has always hated, you know, Fran McCaffrey. It's like, what, I don't even, I don't even think about him that much. I don't even know why. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? I, I, Ryan Odom has a special place in my heart. He's done special things throughout his college career. Is the, the architect of, of, of the first big one versus 16 upset in, in college basketball history. He's, he's, I think obviously he had incredible resources to build this roster, but I think he did a nice job with it just to get him back into a roster conversation with the top of the acc. If you look at Torvik's rankings right now, it's got the top four in the ACC projected to go. Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia. Man, that's what ACC basketball should look like. With apologies to, you know, the NC States and everybody else. But like, as the AC has been down in recent years, you get into these conversations about what does the ACC need to do to get back. You need your awesome programs to be awesome. And we had reached a point where Louisville had gotten to a place unimaginable. North Carolina has been a little bit of this and Virginia, obviously, Tony did incredible things there, but it had slipped recently and then bottomed out last year. So it was important for Virginia to get this right, as always. We'll see. But I do think they hired the right guy. They did the right thing. Ryan, of course, has been to the NCAA Tournament at umbc, Utah State, vcu. He's done, he's accomplished things at three different. At least three different places. And barring a surprise just based on these numbers I'm giving you, he should, this season take a fourth different school to the NCAA tournament. At which point he would become the what number coach to do it in Division 1 men's basketball.
- [15:00]
Matt Norlander
Trivia time.
- [15:01]
Gary Parrish
Oh, it's a trivia time.
- [15:02]
Matt Norlander
It's a trivia time. How about how many coaches have taken four?
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Gary Parrish
At least four.
- [15:12]
Matt Norlander
Man. Well, Patino just became the first to take six.
- [15:14]
Gary Parrish
That's right.
- [15:18]
Matt Norlander
This is going to be, this is going to be just a complete dart throw in the dark. I'll say there have been, I'll say There have been nine coaches to take four schools to the NCAA tournament.
- [15:29]
Gary Parrish
The answer is 12. See how many you can name.
- [15:32]
Matt Norlander
Oh, gosh, we gotta do that.
- [15:33]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, we gotta do this.
- [15:36]
Matt Norlander
Okay. Lefty. Drazelle.
- [15:38]
Gary Parrish
Good one.
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Matt Norlander
Yeah.
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Gary Parrish
You got two.
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Matt Norlander
Yeah. Patino, Drazelle. How about a quick hint? How many are active?
- [15:46]
Gary Parrish
One, two, three.
- [15:53]
Matt Norlander
Okay, well, also, I know KRUEGER'S on the list. He's not active. Three are active. Rick Barnes.
- [15:59]
Gary Parrish
Rick Barnes is not on the list.
- [16:05]
Matt Norlander
Take four schools. One, two. No, I'll try and move fast here. One, two, three itself. Do it. Did he take Oral Roberts there?
- [16:26]
Gary Parrish
Bill Self is not on this list.
- [16:28]
Matt Norlander
Okay. Active. Four schools active.
- [16:36]
Gary Parrish
Basically, every time somebody says Rick Patino, they mentioned this other coach because he. Similarly last name has a similar vowel. They used to coach at rival schools.
- [16:46]
Matt Norlander
They're not Caliperi. Get it together.
- [16:49]
Gary Parrish
Perry has done it together.
- [16:52]
Matt Norlander
Okay. Caliperi. There's two more active ones.
- [16:55]
Gary Parrish
Two more active belief. Yes.
- [16:57]
Matt Norlander
Oh, man. This is a great trivia time.
- [17:05]
Gary Parrish
One of the actives just changed jobs. This.
- [17:08]
Matt Norlander
Get out of here.
- [17:09]
Gary Parrish
Really got pushed out of a power conference job and he's now in the Ivy league.
- [17:16]
Matt Norlander
Oh, Fran McCaffrey.
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Gary Parrish
McCaffrey.
- [17:22]
Matt Norlander
What's the fourth?
- [17:23]
Gary Parrish
Frank McCaffrey's gonna have a shot to become five.
- [17:25]
Matt Norlander
To become a coach.
- [17:26]
Gary Parrish
To take five.
- [17:27]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. As you say that Tubby Smith is on this list.
- [17:30]
Gary Parrish
Tubby Smith is on the list.
- [17:33]
Matt Norlander
Who's the fourth school for?
- [17:34]
Gary Parrish
Fran got it somewhere.
- [17:37]
Matt Norlander
You know, I don't know who I'm missing on who the fourth school would be. Who else? Fork.
- [17:46]
Gary Parrish
Fran McCaffrey has taken Lehigh, UNC Greensboro.
- [17:49]
Matt Norlander
Sienna, and I. Lehigh. That's why I couldn't remember.
- [17:54]
Gary Parrish
You almost forget about Lehigh.
- [17:56]
Matt Norlander
I keep running to like. I'm thinking Anthony Grant. He's done three. Oh, man.
- [18:01]
Gary Parrish
Let me just give them to you.
- [18:02]
Matt Norlander
Give them to me. Yep. There's. We gotta. We gotta keep the show moving along.
- [18:05]
Gary Parrish
Eddie Sutton.
- [18:06]
Matt Norlander
Sutton, yes.
- [18:07]
Gary Parrish
Tom Penders and her. Jim Herrick. John B. Line.
- [18:13]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Beeline. I should have gotten that one.
- [18:15]
Gary Parrish
Larry Eustachi.
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Matt Norlander
Oh, that's a sneaky one.
- [18:18]
Gary Parrish
And Steve Alford.
- [18:20]
Matt Norlander
Alford, active.
- [18:21]
Gary Parrish
Yes.
- [18:22]
Matt Norlander
I got to be better.
- [18:23]
Gary Parrish
That's a good do better. That's a good season. That's the off season.
- [18:27]
Matt Norlander
You know, Nugget, I. I can't expect.
- [18:29]
Gary Parrish
You to be sharp. Sharp as a Tech in the off season.
- [18:33]
Matt Norlander
You can and shouldn't. I should hold myself to that. To that standard. I'm looking up something real quick, though, as you say this. So if Odom does it in year one, that means he will have taken four programs to the tournament in 2018. Yeah, see, that's the question. And you know, has anybody ever taken.
- [18:49]
Gary Parrish
Four different schools to the NCAA tournament in such a short amount of time? I bet that's.
- [18:53]
Matt Norlander
No, that's the que. You gotta cross reference with the list we have. I'm inclined to say no. But that will have been 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. So four schools in nine seasons is if he, if he does it near one. I bet that's never been done first. And you know what? I think that he's, I think he's going to do it. Before we get into the roster, Jeremy mailed in a question. He said, I'd like your thoughts about how it is almost impossible to build a team anymore like Tony Bennett did it and what it does to college sports more so in the future than specifically right now. Seeing Tony build teams of older guys who are willing to wait it out from freshmen to juniors and seniors was one of the best things about that E and college basketball in general. But that's obviously gone now, save for an outlier like Purdue. Do you think that eventually it harms college hoops beyond the Dukes and Kentuckies of the world when someone like Tony Bennett can't take a program from the ashes unless that team, program has significant resources, Quote, I mean parentheses and now willingness to cheat to bring in and retain players will eventually fans of mid tier schools that either don't have resources or don't cheat eventually just tune out. I'd like some quick thoughts on this. You take it away. You take it away. We get some version of this question probably every time we ask for a mailbag, but he won the, he won the auction and you know, we haven't talked about it in a few months. Here, you're up first. You answer it.
- [20:09]
Gary Parrish
The landscape of college athletics has changed dramatically very quickly. There have been some unintended consequences in the spirit of trying to get things right and do things in a more fair way, there have been some downsides to it. Undeniably, even as somebody who argues in favor of this stuff, I can tell you I, I also recognize the downside. And one downside, if we're putting a list together, is it has cost us hall of fame caliber coaches. I don't believe without all the change and for lack of a better word, chaos in college athletics, that Tony Bennett would have retired when he retired. So it removed one of the, you know, quote, unquote, good guys from the sport. That's not good. One of the best teachers. We have a candid coaches question coming up about, hey, if you were the father of a prospect and you were going to send your son to play for somebody for four years, who would you like to send your son to? And I bet you if we'd asked that question two years ago, some people we would have Got a lot of Tony Bennett answers.
- [21:15]
Matt Norlander
I have two coaches this year who said if Coney Bennett was still coaching, he would have been my answer. But since he's not, this guy's my answer. So I.
- [21:22]
Gary Parrish
So he's a respected. We lost him because of this. Or at least in part because of this. There's one negative. There's not a single dude who played for Virginia last season who's going to play for Virginia next season. Like, that's not good. Like, we, we can all agree that that's not good. Yeah, I, I don't think it will forever be this way. I'm fine with it being this way if it goes hand in hand with players being compensated, compensated in a way that they should be. I do think there's some fixes that could come into play, multi year contracts, that type of stuff that will tamp down the constant player movement. But there are some negatives that have come with the changing landscape, landscape of college basketball. Losing a coach like Tony Bennett is one of them. Making it more difficult than ever to build a program the way Tony Bennett built a national championship program. That's more difficult than ever. And I think I remember Tony talking about this at some point. Like he said, whether it was at the retirement press conference or before that or after that, at some point I remember him saying something along these lines. He was like in a group text with his national championship team and he was asking those guys, like, you know, not all of you, all of you won a title here. It all worked out beautifully. But not all of you had prominent roles from the beginning. Not all of you were starters the second you came on campus. How many of you would have left me if you could have without penalty? And he was like, coach, he said he got answers like this. I, looking back on it, I realized it would have been a mistake to leave if I wasn't happy with playing time or my role as a freshman. I know it would have been a mistake to leave, but if I'm being honest, if I could have without penalty, I probably would have, or I would have at least considered it. It. And he sort of acknowledged that was eye opening to him because that is going to be his world going forward. The whole loyalty thing. And we're stuck together and we're going to work through this. It's not really a thing anymore. It can be certain places, but it's not common. And yeah, I don't, I don't think that's good. And it clearly makes it more difficult to have any sort of continuity One year, one year to the next.
- [23:37]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. My way I'd answer the question here is that I don't think it will cause fans that actually care about their teams to tune out. I think it has residual effects on general interest and enthusiasm in college basketball. In some ways, we see some of that. In other ways, you know, we see engagement from college basketball fans on this very show@cbssports.com and television ratings that are still very healthy. But it's undeniable that the heart of this question is something that permeates throughout college sports. It affects college football. I might have mentioned this on the show earlier this summer, but I went to a birthday party for one of my son's friends and I get to talking to one of the parents there and then they. They even get to like talking about this very thing. So it is something that is consistently on the minds of a lot of college sports fans and they. It's not. Most college sports fans don't object to players making money or anything like that. They just want some sense of stability and continuity year over year so that you're not having to relearn 8, 9, 10 players on an annual basis because that can, you know, you'd like to have some familiarity with your program aside from who the head coach is. So I get it. I think there are some negative effects. Are the negative effects worth trading off to wait how it used to be? I would say no, because the players do deserve to have certain, you know, very big opportunities that were wrongly withheld from them for decades. But we're all hopeful that we're on the road to getting to ourselves to a place where we have a bit more continuity year over year over year. Let's keep it moving. Let's talk about the roster here. Gone. Isaac McNeely, Elijah Saunders, Andrew Road Day Ames Jacob Kofi, Blake Buchanan, along with like five others. So they're all gone. GP ran that down. You're looking at from a roster standpoint. This is my projection. I think you'll have Dallin hall transferred from BYU, 6, 4 shooting guard, who was a glue guy there, average like seven a game. I think he'll start at the one. I think you'll have San Francisco transfer Malik Thomas, six five senior average, 20 points last season, 39 from three. I think he's your starter at the two. Sam Lewis, I think probably starts at three. He's a six, six wing shot, 44.4 from three, along with nearly five rebounds at Toledo a year ago at the four is a guy who probably had top 10 buzz among all new players on rosters this offseason. Tester Ritter. He is 6 8, 231 pounds. He's from Belgium. He played in Liga ACB the past couple years. Played for Bilbao basket and averaged 9.3 points, 4.8 boards. Shot 50 from the field 39 is like a big forward from three. He has a lock to start at the four and then they've got another international transfer, Johan Grunlow. He's German. I think he'll probably start at the five. You also have in the mix to start or at least fight for it. Devin Attilis 66 forward at 39 of his 123 three point attempts last season at UC Irvine. A really good UC Irvine team. Again another really good three point shooter that Odom and the staff brought in. Chance Mallory's a freshman 5, 9 point guard, 55th in the class. I don't think he starts at the start of the season. If you told me he got some starts I'd believe you. And then you, you have more Uganda NSO who comes from Kansas State was a non factor there last season. Can he, you know, one more chance to have a good year. I don't think he'll start but he'll obviously get some burn. Jakari White's another name to know. North Dakota State another 40 plus three point shooter average 17 a game. He's a six three two guard. He'll be in the mix there. That's most of the names I think you need to know. There's a red shirt that came over via VCU as well but that's the majority of it. There's a roster that is just seeping with potential. There's, there's no doubt this could be a team Parish that I think has as much, has as much 3 point reliability as any team we've seen at Virginia maybe ever. And there have been some good ones. Like the title winning team was obviously a very good three point shooting team. But I would say this will probably have a better combination of being a really good three point shooting team and it's three point attempt rate will be even better than any team that Tony had that frankly probably any team Ryan's had as a head coach there. And I don't think that perimeter oriented offense is going to be at the sacrifice to some real grunt work in the paint. It's why you're getting a lot of like you know in the acc. I just, I gather this from talking to some assistants and head coaches on the road back in July, a lot of intrigue and a lot of like, Virginia's gonna be good, man. Because the roster they oh, this is what can happen when one, you know what you're doing and two, you are afforded a really, really nice budget immediately stepping into a power conference gig there. I do like the pieces. I think you have them outside the top 25. I think that's fair because you also got to see if everything's going to gel. Let's see how it all works. But while a lot of the names I just listed off, your casual college basketball fan might not be overly familiar with a lot of them, man. The they went out, Odom went out and was able to pluck off a ton of good size, proven scoring, reliable three point shooting and comboing that with a couple of international players that seem to be legit players with potential pro futures on, on these shores here in the United States of America. What are your thoughts on the roster?
- [28:55]
Gary Parrish
Well, just from the transfer portal, you know, they go Dallin Hall, Jakari White, Malik Thomas and Hulk shot 35.3% from three last season. So respectable, not great. But the other two, White and Thomas were both above 39% from three. So you've got, just like you said, real established shooters in your backcourt. Whether they play together, one of them comes off the bench. However that works. You've got shooting. Deridder is, is, is the, I think centerpiece of all of this. The pronunciation I saw was Tice derider.
- [29:30]
Matt Norlander
When I talk, okay. When I, when I talked with Odom, he said Tess. So it might be Tice, but, and.
- [29:38]
Gary Parrish
If it is Tice.
- [29:39]
Matt Norlander
And Odom was just talking to me and he accidentally mispronounced it. Whatever. So we'll go, we did. This happened last year with another player. I can't remember who it was, but I was like when I talked to this coach, this is how they said the name and then that pronunciation wound up being incorrect.
- [29:51]
Gary Parrish
So no, coaches do do this sometimes. Like I, I, I, I think I remember like Rick Patino never getting Gorgy Jean's name correct or something like that. So, so we'll all out before the season. But what I, what I saw was Tice, the Ritter and Johan Grunlow. Those are the international prospects. The Ritter was like he's gone through NBA draft processes and was a projected second round pick. He is technically going to be a freshman, I believe with two years of eligibility. But I don't want to say most people because I don't know if it's most people, but there are some people who believe he is going to be a 1:1 and done college basketball player. He's 22 years old, averaged 9.3 points, 4.8 rebounds this past season playing in Spain. He seems to be the, the real deal and somebody who's going. He'll be among the latest European players to come to America and make an impact at the, at the power conference level.
- [30:57]
Matt Norlander
Just got a text from Odom. It's Tess. I just asked him. Okay, yeah, test the Ritter. He's going. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of optimism. It's it. He's at the center of it and yeah, he could, if it goes the way they hope it goes, he could be a guy that steps in and might just look different from a lot of other players in terms of his size, shooting ability, stepping out and being really versatile. And he like, he played in a real legit league overseas. And so the idea is that he's going to be able to transition with minimal hiccups and be an impactful player right away, potentially, potentially the team's best player. And so in doing so, if Virginia is going to be what we think it can be, maybe an all ACC level guy, like one of the five to seven best players in the, in the country, there's a lot to be excited about here from a roster standpoint. I know Virginia fans and I take this, having talked to a few of them, you get a new coach. You know, Tony leaving was a very, very, very hard thing, obviously for that fan base, that campus, that community, because of how well regarded he is. And for the most part, while he had his own style of play, for the most part the majority of his career, just Virginia was a reliability. Sometimes they'd win games ugly and, and I don't know if it was my friend Caroline Darney who came up with this, but you know, calling it was a, it was, I think it was called a Tony. If you held, if you held a team under 20 and a half, you know, and you went, you win a game 52, 41 and you're more than okay with it. Like we're getting the dubs. We don't care to go from all of that to losing him to retirement three, five, seven years before you thought that would happen. Sanchez stuff just doesn't work, unfortunately. One year can't, can't happen. And okay, so who's going to be the guy? And while he has not coached a game yet, I know that the roster that has been assembled here is bringing about a lot of optimism. And I, for the most part, I do agree with that. There's even one more player I might have, might not have mentioned, Silas Barksdale. He's a four star ranked 91 and 247 who should also make, make an impact as well. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of good stuff there. You want to get to the schedule.
- [33:03]
Gary Parrish
Well, just, just to touch on the other international prospect because he's interesting as well. Grunlow. He was named the U22 player of the year in Germany's first division like two years ago. So these are international prospects that we're obviously less familiar with than we would be if they were five star freshmen coming from IMG Academy or Mon Verde or whatever. But it won't take, it won't take college basketball fans, ACC fans long to recognize that those two guys should be instant impact, I would think, day one starters and, and the type of players that at least theoretically are going to be able to get Virginia back to, you know, inside the top 100 at Ken Palm, which is where Virginia is obviously supposed to be.
- [33:47]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, no doubt about it. Let's get to the schedule here. Little regular season win total and then we got some, we got a few other things before we get out of here as well. I've, I've acquired ryan Odom's top 10 DMB songs and of course I'm going to be getting to that before we get out of the show schedule wise. Here's what we got. Year one for the Wahoos under Odom. November 21st. These are the high major games of note. Northwestern in the Greenbrier tip off in West Virginia. Apparently that's a beautiful area and that's, that's a good one.
- [34:15]
Gary Parrish
I remember the, I remember that tournament last year and I was looking at the commercials and I was like, well, should I be taking my family to vacation in West Virginia? It never occurred to me, but it looked amazing.
- [34:26]
Matt Norlander
Country roads, take me home. There we go.
- [34:28]
Gary Parrish
They got a vacation in West Virginia one year. We, we're gonna, we're done with this other stuff. We're going to West Virginia.
- [34:33]
Matt Norlander
You're never gonna do that. All right, November 23rd, they get Butler, who I also think will be like legitimately improved from a season ago. So that's, you know, while Northwestern and Butler aren't going to occupy spots in the preseason AP top 25 that those are, they're good targets for your first time major games because you'll get a sense of where you're at. And I You know, I don't think Virginia fans should think it's an automatic that they will go to and oh, they can, but don't think it's an automatic. Chris Collins is a really good coach and Thadmata, he's won some games in his day. The next game of note on the high major non con slate is at Texas. Another coach in a year one spot, Sean Miller. That's December 3rd, December 6th. This is not high major but it's obviously notable. It's Daytona, that's in Charlotte. So Anthony Grant and Ryan Odom, they know each other well. They've got a game on the slate. So two notable games away from home for UVA in the first week of December, then December 20th. Love to see this home against Maryland. There's still a wiring in my brain that makes me think that's an ACC game. It's of course not. So home versus the Terps in a home and home series there and then on Valentine's Day. Yes, we have a non conference matchup up. This is getting more popular. We'd love to see it. Ohio State in Nashville will be for UVA versus OSU on Valentine's Day. So that's good stuff. So Those are the six notable non con games GP, 18 games schedule in the ACC. The only team they don't play. It's actually a good team. I'd like to see it. But they don't play Clemson so they get spared Brad Brownell. The two plays North Carolina State home and home. Like to see that. And then of course Virginia Tech being right there with Virginia as the rival home games in the acc. They don't have to go out west. It's Cal, Miami, unc, Pitt, Stanford, Syracuse and Wake Forest. Those are the home games at JPJ arena and then road at bc, at Duke, at fsu, at Georgia Tech, at Louisville, at Notre Dame, at smu. So if you think Duke, unc, Louisville will be the three best teams heading into the season, two of those three our away games for Virginia. What are the wahoos going to be in year one heading into the ACC tournament? GP.
- [36:45]
Gary Parrish
We'Re gonna go three non league losses. We're gonna go 13 and seven in the ACC. We're gonna have.
- [36:52]
Matt Norlander
There's 18 games in the ACC, not 20.
- [36:55]
Gary Parrish
They played 20 last year. 18 this year. Got it correct. Okay, let's make that then instead of 13 and 7, let's make it 12 and 6. Except 12 and 6.
- [37:05]
Matt Norlander
It's your, it's your projection.
- [37:07]
Gary Parrish
I'm gonna ask you to accept 12 and 6.
- [37:09]
Matt Norlander
Yep.
- [37:10]
Gary Parrish
So I'm gonna have nine losses heading into the ACC tournament. What does that put me at?
- [37:14]
Matt Norlander
22 wins. 22 and 9.
- [37:17]
Gary Parrish
22 and 9 and not on the bubble. Safely in the NCAA tournament. Let's do.
- [37:25]
Matt Norlander
That's for fun. Let's do a little bonus. Give me, give me a. What is a 20. You know, we don't know what they'll do in the ACC tournament. Give me a seat for the Virginia Cavaliers. What's your guess?
- [37:36]
Gary Parrish
Nine seed.
- [37:39]
Matt Norlander
Okay, nine seed. I will say. You know what's interesting is I'm gonna have, I'm gonna say one fewer win in the regular seasons, 21 and 10. And I still think they'll. But I'm gonna say a 7C. So I'll say, I'll say they get stuff done in the ACC tournament. They get enough quality wins. The ACC is better than last season. How can it not be? And that gets them to the seven line home whites in the first round. Overall, it's a, it's a, it's a quality first crack at a schedule, that's for sure. I like what Odom has assembled here. Having no pieces returning first year on the job, he didn't run from it. It's not the toughest. It's certainly far from the weakest there. So we're, we're near the same. But. But yeah, you've got him with a little bit better of a regular season. I've got him with a little bit better of a seed. When we get to selection Sunday, before we get out of here, got two things on the, on the old menu. One, it's, you know, Odom's a genuine Dave Matthews Band fan. This he attend. He attended Hampton Sydney back in the 90s. He saw them like in frat houses where he went to College in like 1992. So he is an OG for the, for the Virginia fans listening obviously a lot. Many of you, like me, are massive DMB fans when you're watching this. They just wrapped up their final shows of 2025. They just played their annual gorge three night stand out there in George Washington. Would love to get out there one day. Still have not yet been to the gorge. Tell my plans maybe for 2026. All right, all right, it's Norlander. We're like 55 hours or so into the future from when you're listening and what you're listening to with the rest of this episode. But something incredible happened over the weekend that actually ties to this pod. Just a heads up, we recorded most of this episode. Everything except this little quickie injection from me on Friday. And so of all the shows, of all the podcast episodes, all the schools on all of the days and weekends, it had to be Virginia. Which then, a little more than a day removed from us recording this, DMB goes out and plays one of its five most notable concerts in its 30 plus year history. Before these crowded streets start to finish in order, the band had never done anything remotely close to this, ever, in its history. What the hell does this have to do with basketball, folks? The vibes in Charlottesville are elite now. Mark me down. Five seed minimum now for Virginia heading into the 2026 NCAA tournament. Great, great news for Wahoo fans. Great, great stuff from D and B over the weekend. Now let's get back to the rest of the show. I'm going to give you ryan Odom's top 10 Dave Matthews Band songs in order. But before I do, Paris is not a DMV fan. He hates Dave Matthews maybe more than he hates Ryan Odom.
- [40:21]
Gary Parrish
Actually, here's the truth. I. I am of the age where I should be a Dave Matthews fan. Like, I was growing up, that band was huge. I was. It was unavoidable. Like those, you know, all the songs. It was unavoidable. It just was never for me. Like, I just never. And it's not like, Like, I, like, I have friends who have been around Dave Matthews and worked around Dave Matthews and like, been in his circle and they all say he's the best. Like, he's the greatest guy. Like, just. He's so. It's like nothing other than. It's just not for me. I've just never really. I know the songs. I've seen him live. I've seen the band live multiple times and festival settings and stuff. It's just not like I just would never be driving around and listening to.
- [41:11]
Matt Norlander
I more than make up for on this podcast. Yeah, Yeah, I more than make up for it. That being said, if. Is there a single song that you like? Single one. If you don't, that's okay.
- [41:21]
Gary Parrish
But I mean, there's nothing where I would be like, man, I don't really dig Dave Matthews Band, but I love that song. That doesn't really exist. That exists for me. That's. That's. You're thinking of Silver Chair.
- [41:32]
Matt Norlander
Silver Chair. Oh, one song right now. Silver Chair's got a really good album. I'm blanking on it right now. I'll tell you right now, it's. They got a great song called. Yeah, they've They've had some. I'm not talking about, like, their stuff that. That went. That went big early. I like. Man, I haven't listened to this album in a long time, though. It's good. Silver Chair. Check out Diorama or maybe Diorama. Maybe that's how you.
- [41:56]
Gary Parrish
What's the real famous Silver Chair song?
- [41:59]
Matt Norlander
The most well known.
- [42:01]
Gary Parrish
Tomorrow. That one.
- [42:03]
Matt Norlander
You tell me.
- [42:12]
Gary Parrish
That's Silver Chair. That's my impression of Silver Chair. Tomorrow, once in a while in the car.
- [42:18]
Matt Norlander
Tomorrow is what you're talking about. That's from Frog Stomp.
- [42:20]
Gary Parrish
What's it called?
- [42:21]
Matt Norlander
Tomorrow?
- [42:22]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, Tomorrow.
- [42:22]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, Tomorrow. But every once in a while in.
- [42:26]
Gary Parrish
The car when I feel like the. The words are getting a little too rough on Hip Hop Nation for the boys in the back seat, we'll switch over to Lithium. And then every once in a while, you'll stumble into Silver Chair on the Lithium channel.
- [42:39]
Matt Norlander
Diorama across the night. Very, very baroque sounding song. Good stuff there. All right, you hijacked the DMB segment. Let's keep it going. Ryan Odom's top 10 DMB songs. I asked for them in order. Here's the order. He sent them them. Number 41, which is 41. Yeah. What. What's.
- [42:56]
Gary Parrish
What we're doing 41.
- [42:59]
Matt Norlander
No, number 41 is his favorite song.
- [43:01]
Gary Parrish
Oh, that's a song.
- [43:02]
Matt Norlander
Yes. It's the 41st song that he wrote.
- [43:04]
Gary Parrish
I thought you were starting with and at number 41, I was like, jesus, Lord, I got things to do, not doing a countdown.
- [43:10]
Matt Norlander
Although I have. I have literally ranked every DMV song.
- [43:13]
Gary Parrish
All right, and now Norlander is going to rank 40 one day. Matthew. I'll see you guys later. Till next time.
- [43:18]
Matt Norlander
Correct. No, 41 is his favorite, which is considered among his very best songs. Their very best songs. Dancing Nancy's number two.
- [43:26]
Gary Parrish
Sure.
- [43:26]
Matt Norlander
Speak up. Number three. Objectively, a top ten DMB song. Two Step number four, also considered as a top ten song. Gray street number five. Bartender number six. Warehouse. Number seven. Typical Situation is his number eight. That is my favorite DMV song. Typical Situation. Crush number nine. And then probably their best studio cut of the past 10 years. Virginia in the rain is number 10 for Ryan Odom. He also loves Watchtower Live, but that's not a D and B original. That is a Bob Dylan song that.
- [43:57]
Gary Parrish
That Jimi Hendrix made famous.
- [43:59]
Matt Norlander
And, and yes. And then, you know, many people have covered it, but DMB has covered it since. Since basically they. They formed as a band there. So that's his top 10.
- [44:06]
Gary Parrish
I don't know how. I don't know how comfortable I am with the satellite. Disrespectful.
- [44:11]
Matt Norlander
You know what? Satellite not being in the top 10 is more than okay. It's more than okay. A lot of people like it. Satellite's great. It's a. It's a. It's a funky little guitar riff. It's fun to play. But I wouldn't have Satellite even in my top 40 DMV songs, so. But, hey, you knew one. I like to hear that.
- [44:26]
Gary Parrish
That's. That's. Is that the biggest? Is that the most famous?
- [44:29]
Matt Norlander
No, no, Crash Enemy is the biggest. Yeah, of course.
- [44:31]
Gary Parrish
Right?
- [44:31]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Satellite wouldn't even be. It'd be like seven or eight or nine overall. But, like, he mentioned number 41. I could bring it. I'm not gonna bring it up. I Bet you number 41 has more streams on Spotify than Satellite. That kind of stuff, so. All right, last one is a question from our. From our auction winner, Jeremy. He's. It's not Virginia related. He wanted something big picture, he said. Have you and Gary talked about how you'd like to do this or quote what's next in your career? Does it ever get stale for you? Or is it. There's everything just as fresh as it was when it started so long ago? It seems still just as fresh for your listeners, I think. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on the state of Ion college basketball in your future from a former sports reporter long ago. Take it away, Parrish. Am I stale? Is this stale? Are you done? Is this. Is this, like, the last eye on college basketball? Are we over?
- [45:19]
Gary Parrish
I'm not bored with you at all. I'm having a good time with you. I. I like you. I don't want to speak for you. It would be like the first time you ever go to a Final Four. There's a certain, like, wow to it. And the first time you're ever at Cameron Indoor, there's a certain, like, my God, I can't believe I'm here. And Alan Fieldhouse and all of those things. Right. And after a while, you've done them all so often that you'd be. At least. I would be lying if I told you I still get the same feeling every time. Can start to feel like the Final Four is like, it's, we're here to work, you know, let's do our job.
- [45:53]
Matt Norlander
Feels awesome to me every time. Awesome for you. But I know what you're saying. But like, every year, like, going to the Final Four is no it's awesome.
- [46:03]
Gary Parrish
I'm just saying, like, you don't. I don't look around as much as.
- [46:06]
Matt Norlander
I don't have a sense of awe and wonder. I understand.
- [46:08]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, that. That diminishes a little bit, which is kind of sad. I. I do have these moments sometimes where I try to remind myself, like, man, when you were a kid, you would have killed to do this thing. Like, get a little more excited, like, you know, you're here, this is fun. And. But. But I don't have to remind myself stuff often. I just. I try to hold on to that perspective, like, this was a dream once upon a time. Don't take it for granted now, that kind of thing. But in terms of, like, working like this, I enjoy this still just as much as I've ever enjoyed it. I like prepping for this. I like prepping for a podcast just as much as I like doing the podcast. I like getting in and doing the work. And there are times during the season where I get completely overwhelmed and I lose my voice and I can't breathe well, and I need to go to the doctor, and I just wear my shows. I get. I get physically overwhelmed and mentally overwhelmed, and there are days where I wake up and I go, man, I don't know how I'm going to get through this day. And then I just get through it. Yeah, but. But broadly speaking, I. I don't think about what's next. I think about trying to hold on to what I got. Like, I like what I have. I like my place in this world. I like what I'm allowed to do. I like the people I work for. I enjoy the people I work with. I. I don't have any complaints like that. There are people all over our profession who, who are disgruntled, resentful, frustrated, always wanting the next thing, can't wait to get out and go do. That's not me. I am happy where I'm at. I am appreciative of what I have. And if it never got better than where it's been, it's been more amazing than most people's careers get to. You know, it's been more amazing than most people get to enjoy and better than my wildest expectations. When I was, you know, jumping off onto this path and I'm. I. I will forever consider myself fortunate. I look up sometimes and don't really understand exactly how I got to where I'm at.
- [48:12]
Matt Norlander
You know how you got to where. Yeah, you know. You know how that. Yeah.
- [48:15]
Gary Parrish
No, like, I've been Like, I'm a public. Like, not to get all whatever, but, like, I'm a public school kid from Mississippi who. Who flies to New York and talks on national television. You know, like, that's. Like, that's. This is not supposed to be my life, and it is, and I do not take it for granted. I'm very appreciative. I die, and I still enjoy what I'm doing and hope to keep doing it for as long as I can.
- [48:35]
Matt Norlander
Sounds like GP Is asking, could I have been anyone other than me? If that notion. If that notion intrigues you, GP Then you should pull up Dancing Nancy's by dmb because it's a very introspective kind of song. I think you might enjoy it. A parking lot attendant. I appreciate this kind of question. I echo a lot of what Parrish just said there. No, Parrish and I have not, like, hopped on the phone and hashed out, like, a game plan for, like, the next six months or two years of the pod. We talk about how we can tweak things and keep. Keep a certain element of this podcast that is reliable for our listeners. It's also not lost on me that I know just specifically in the podcast space, and not even the college basketball podcast space, but the podcast space in general is one that can be volatile. And for anyone that opts into listening for more than 40 minutes at the start of September on a college basketball podcast, you're our people like. And no doubt there have been other shows in other genres, other sports that you might have enjoyed for a number of years, and the people that were on those shows or those shows that once existed no longer. Like, there's been a lot of splintering of that. Nothing's given, nothing's forever, and nothing's guaranteed. But I do want our listeners and viewers to know that having us, you know, be available to you and. And having some sort of consistency is not lost on me, and I very, very much appreciate it. I wouldn't want to do the podcast with anyone else. It's all. It's. You know, GP And I have been doing this together on this show in some capacity, really, in some capacity since the very start, when it was once the College Hoops Journal podcast and then became ion college basketball. That's, you know, going on almost 15 years ago. But really, the show as it's been, like, this is for a better part of a decade there. So, no, yeah, love, love the job, love doing the pod. It's a ton of fun. I love that we get a little more Time to breathe in the off season. I've been invigorated that Parrish and I, we brought in the guests for a lot of the shoot around episodes, and then, okay, I hadn't talked to my friend for more than two and a half weeks. Then it's. It's good to have those little breaks so that when we come back and do the show, we remember our rhythms, how we can bounce stuff off each other, how many coaches Parish hates. And it's, you know, it's. It's good to take quick little breaks with them. Once we get into the season, we know how that can go. So. Jeremy, I appreciate the question and we get the opportunity, a lot of cool stuff with cbs and hopefully those opportunities only continue to grow. But we know for the majority of people that intake our work, like, you can watch us on HQ and CBS Sports Network, and obviously the written component, which is major, we know that the overwhelming majority of people that know who we are do so via this podcast. We don't take that lightly. We don't take it for granted. We love doing the show and, and, yeah, we're just gonna, we're gonna keep on keeping on and hopefully some, some big, fun new elements of the podcast coming, you know, before too long. And, And I appreciate the question.
- [51:35]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I was not a proponent of mixing up the summer shoot around and bringing in all these other people. Like, I was like, it's our podcast. We'll do it type. But that's sort of just where my mindset is all. Which is probably how I end up getting overwhelmed because I'm always like, I'll do it, I'll do it. But I'm glad we did a. I think it's added to it. Like, it's cool for me to talk to Matt Painter and for you to talk to Mark Pope and to bring Rob Doster on and John Fanta on and so on and so forth. So it's been good. I'm glad we did it. I'm glad you guys thought of it and brought it to me. And when I expressed hesitation, you know, held my hand and pulled me over the line.
- [52:16]
Matt Norlander
I got a button for that. Hold on. Where is it? Where is it? It. Where is it? Oh, here it is.
- [52:20]
Gary Parrish
I was wrong.
- [52:20]
Matt Norlander
There we go.
- [52:21]
Gary Parrish
So I'm glad we did it for that reason, but also because, yes, it is nice to, like, breathe a little bit. Like, you know, we have incredible jobs. In part, we just, we get paid to talk. Right. We're talking for a living. That everybody should be so lucky but like I do work seven days a week through the entire college basketball season and it is nice to not do that, you know, throughout the month of August to be able to, to breathe a little bit and, and obviously other people coming in and helping with the summer shoot around is has made that more possible than it otherwise would be. So great idea. I say we do it again next year.
- [52:56]
Matt Norlander
Sounds good. That's a show.
- [52:58]
Gary Parrish
Let's get out of here. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. terry Teagle. He's a legend. Hulk Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching. Listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe. If you anywhere you subscribe to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, there's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care.
- [53:25]
Vuori Brand Representative
Paramount Podcasts.
- [53:33]
Commercial Narrator
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