ACC/SEC Challenge matchups revealed; Big 12 sked update; coach’s challenges coming to CBB; Zakai Zeigler denied 5th season

Summary

Eye On College Basketball – June 12, 2025 Episode Summary

In the June 12, 2025 episode of CBS Sports' "Eye On College Basketball," hosts Gary Parish and Matt Norlander delve into several pivotal topics shaping the upcoming college basketball season. This detailed summary captures their discussions, insights, and notable moments, including key quotes with timestamps.

---

1. ACC/SEC Challenge Matchups Revealed

Overview: The episode begins with the announcement of the annual ACC/SEC Challenge matchups. Gary Parish outlines the 16 games scheduled for December 2nd and 3rd, featuring marquee matchups such as Florida vs. Duke and North Carolina vs. Kentucky.

Key Points:

• Matchups Highlighted:

  • December 2nd: Florida at Duke, North Carolina at Kentucky, Tennessee at Syracuse, and more.
  • December 3rd: Louisville at Arkansas, Clemson at Alabama, NC State at Auburn, among others.

• Performance Analysis:

  • Last season, the ACC struggled with a 14-2 record but faced tough competition, leading to the SEC's dominance.
  • Matt Norlander reflects on the ACC's previous performance, noting, “the SEC obviously streets ahead of every other league last season” ([02:42]).

• Predictions:

  • The hosts engage in a playful prediction game, ultimately anticipating a 5-11 record for the ACC against the SEC ([08:13]).
  • Gary Parish emphasizes the excitement of high-profile games, stating, “If you could only watch one of these games… It would be Florida at Duke” ([09:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Parish: “If you could only watch one of these games… It would be Florida at Duke” ([09:30]).
• Matt Norlander: “Next season, coaches will be able to challenge specific calls once per game and it will be two times per game” ([20:51]).

---

2. Big 12 Schedule Update

Overview: The conversation shifts to the Big 12 Conference's scheduling rotations. Matt Norlander provides an in-depth look at how the Big 12 is arranging its matchups, highlighting key teams and their scheduling strategies.

Key Points:

• Schedule Rotation:

  • Focus on six major teams: Houston, Arizona, Kansas, BYU, Texas Tech, and Iowa State.
  • Emphasis on ensuring high-profile matchups and strategic home/away games.

• Evaluation:

  • Gary Parish acknowledges the complexities involved, stating, “there’s a lot of things that go into this” ([14:07]).
  • Both hosts agree that the Big 12 has made commendable efforts in scheduling, aiming to maximize competitive balance and viewer interest.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Norlander: “the Big 12 did a pretty good job here” ([14:07]).
• Gary Parish: “there’s a lot of things that go into this” ([14:07]).

---

3. Coaching Challenges Coming to College Basketball

Overview: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the introduction of coach’s challenges in college basketball. This new rule aims to enhance the accuracy of in-game decisions and improve the viewing experience.

Key Points:

• Rule Changes:

  • Coaches can challenge specific calls twice per game.
  • Challenges can be made on out-of-bounds calls, basket interference, goaltending, and block charge calls.
  • If a challenge is unsuccessful, the team loses a timeout.

• Impact on the Game:

  • Matt Norlander explains that these changes are designed to speed up game flow and reduce disruptions, particularly during critical moments.
  • Gary Parish shares personal frustrations with monitor reviews, highlighting how they disrupt studio operations: “Any review, it's costing me 10 minutes” ([26:07]).

• Realistic Expectations:

  • Both hosts express cautious optimism, acknowledging that while the changes are a step forward, they may not entirely eliminate all disruptions.
  • Gary Parish: “step in the right direction… just better than what we had last season” ([26:51]).

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Norlander: “Next season, coaches will be able to challenge specific calls once per game and it will be two times per game” ([20:51]).
• Gary Parish: “Any review, it's costing me 10 minutes” ([26:07]).

---

4. Zakai Ziegler Denied Fifth Season

Overview: The hosts discuss a recent legal decision involving Zakai Ziegler, a University of Tennessee basketball player who sought a fifth season of eligibility. The court denied his motion, setting significant implications for NCAA policies and athlete rights.

Key Points:

• Legal Ruling:

  • A U.S. district court denied Ziegler's motion for a fifth season, citing that the court deals with legal matters, not NCAA policies.
  • The judge noted, “this court is a court of law, not policy” ([33:13]).

• NIL Compensation Context:

  • Ziegler acknowledged the role of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) collectives in providing compensation, but the court ruled that this does not grant him eligibility to continue playing.

• Future Implications:

  • The ruling may influence future lawsuits and NCAA policy debates regarding athlete compensation and eligibility.
  • Matt Norlander comments on the broader impact, stating, “this is a reminder… we’re not going to stop getting [lawsuits] anytime soon” ([35:00]).

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Parish: “The judge ended it with these words. This court is a court of law, not policy.” ([33:13]).
• Zakai Ziegler's attorney: “We intend to press forward and are evaluating the best path ahead for Zakai” ([34:24]).

---

5. Music Corner: Farewell to Sly Stone and Brian Wilson

Overview: In a heartfelt segment, the hosts pay tribute to music legends Sly Stone and Brian Wilson, who recently passed away. They reflect on their contributions to music and share personal connections to their work.

Key Points:

• Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds:

  • Matt Norlander praises Wilson’s genius, highlighting the groundbreaking nature of the "Pet Sounds" album.
  • Gary Parish shares his admiration for Wilson’s ability to create intricate harmonies and innovative music, recounting their personal anecdotes and experiences with the Beach Boys.

• Sly Stone and Sly and the Family Stone:

  • The hosts commend Sly Stone's pioneering role in blending different musical styles and his influence on future generations.

• Personal Connections:

  • Gary shares memories of attending a private Beach Boys event and his ongoing appreciation for their music.
  • Matt discusses introducing his kids to these legendary artists, emphasizing their lasting impact on music culture.

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Parish: “Honestly, Brian Wilson was one of my musical heroes” ([51:04]).
• Matt Norlander: “Pet Sounds is attributed to the Beach Boys, but it is essentially all of Brian Wilson’s creation” ([54:58]).

---

6. Personal Reflections and Anecdotes

Towards the end of the episode, Gary Parish and Matt Norlander share personal stories related to their connections with music legends and their families, adding a personal touch to the discussion.

Key Points:

• Concert Experiences:

  • Matt Norlander talks about taking his kids to see Ringo Starr, highlighting the importance of passing down musical legacies.
  • Gary Parish mentions attending a Bob Dylan concert with his children, despite feeling uneasy about the artists' performances in their later years.

• Musical Legacy:

  • The hosts discuss the enduring influence of artists like Brian Wilson and Sly Stone on their lives and careers, emphasizing the timeless nature of their contributions to music.

---

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Gary and Matt encourage listeners to subscribe to their podcast on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify. They hint at future episodes covering top stories and continue their blend of sports analysis with personal and cultural reflections.

Notable Closing Quotes:

• Gary Parish: “This is for us. We're just talking” ([47:50]).
• Matt Norlander: “Pet Sounds is different altogether” ([51:04]).

---

Summary Highlights:

• ACC/SEC Challenge: Anticipated high-stakes matchups with ACC predicted to improve from last season’s performance.
• Big 12 Scheduling: Strategic rotations focusing on top teams to enhance competitiveness.
• Coaching Challenges: Introduction of challenges to improve game flow and accuracy, with mixed feelings about implementation.
• Zakai Ziegler Case: Denial of fifth season eligibility, impacting future NCAA athlete policies.
• Music Tribute: Heartfelt homage to Brian Wilson and Sly Stone, reflecting on their musical genius and personal impacts.

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing both sports analysis and enriching personal anecdotes for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Gary Parish]

Foreign hey there, it's Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports Eye on College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss Camel fighting, Dodo Virgin, Leaky Black Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies. And if you haven't yet subscribed to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel, it will awesome if you also did that while you're here. Let's get into it. Among the headlines in recent days is the announcement of the matchup for the annual ACC SEC Challenge. Let me run you through the matchups. We got 16 games and then we'll get Norlander's thoughts on it. It's going to start Tuesday, December 2nd Florida at Duke, North Carolina at Kentucky, Tennessee at Syracuse, Georgia at Florida State, Miami at Ole, Missouri at Notre Dame, Texas A and M at Pitt, Virginia Tech at South Carolina, Oklahoma, Wake Forest. Then we'll go to sleep, wake up, It'll be Wednesday, December 3rd. Then we'll get Louisville at Arkansas, Clemson at Alabama, NC State at Auburn, Virginia at Texas, LSU at Boston College, Mississippi State at Georgia Tech and SMU at Vanderbilt. Norlander, good to see you. Rest in peace. Brian Wilson, I recognize your shirt and slice stone.

[Matt Norlander]

I got both behind me here. We're not by the way, we weren't able to go live on this episode because our normal service provider is down. So where you're watching this after the fact. But I had to, I had to give shouts to both Pet Sounds and Stan. My favorite Sly and the Family Stone album there. So yes, we are fully repping the music legends. We lost this week here on the pod.

[Gary Parish]

We have lost some giants in recent days. I just ran it through the 16 games. Obviously this thing didn't go so well for the ACC last season. What stands out here? Do you think the ACC fares better this time around?

[Matt Norlander]

They're running it back. Trivia time. Do you remember the record of the acc last season?

[Gary Parish]

14. And it was 14 to 2.

[Matt Norlander]

Yes, it was 14.

[Gary Parish]

Duke beat Auburn, Clemson beat Kentucky. Every other ACC school involved got Molly whopped. And and I, I don't think this was the first indication. I think the first indication was just like looking at the rosters in the preseason.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, like Auburn winning Maui and there was a lot of stuff before this challenge happened last season.

[Gary Parish]

But yeah, but that's challenge is like oh wow, what are we watching? Because they just embarra the acc. And from there the SEC went on to become what is now widely regarded as the best men's basketball conference in the history of the sport.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. And indeed. And the SEC obviously streets ahead of every other league last season. And the ratings across. Take a look at any metric you want. SEC was one. And then among the five power conferences in college basketball, the ACC was a considerable fifth place. In fact, it was closer to the Mountain west and overall power rating than it was to the Big east, which was. Was fourth. Gotta figure the ACC is going to do better this time around. That in mind, before we talk a couple of the highlights here. Let's just. Let's put it right here, right now. Middle of June, someone find us in the first week of December when we. I'm serious. Clip this pair of shades when I do this. But I'm going to ask you to do it. Clip this, remind us and let us know how right or wrong we were. How many wins? Let's run through it here. Oh, Mike and the Mad Dog style, the way they used to do it. Let's go. That's a win. That's a loss. Strictly from the ACC side. Okay. How many wins is the ACC going to get in this series next season? We'll do it jointly together. Okay. I'm going to roll off. And the graphic that is in front of me, this is the way I'm going to do it. So I think it's largely what you just set off, but let's do it again. Florida at Duke. Acc. That's a win. That's a win. Right?

[Gary Parish]

I'm going to call. I'm going to call that a win for the ACC based on nothing more than home court advantage. A little more than home.

[Matt Norlander]

Let's just go off pure vibes here. Carolina at Kentucky. We'll call that a loss. One to one. Tennessee at Syracuse. What do you want to do? I give this one the orange.

[Gary Parish]

Battle of the oranges.

[Matt Norlander]

It is. It's the battle of the one true orange. One true shade of orange. Undeniably. I think we've had this conversation on this podcast before and we both agreed. We actually think it might have been Tennessee. Illinois. Now we go Tennessee, Syracuse. I still prefer Syracuse. A shade of orange to Tennessee. Do you agree with.

[Gary Parish]

I agree. I like this. We don't more than.

[Matt Norlander]

I agree that Tennessee is probably going to win.

[Gary Parish]

I will take the Vols on the road inside the place formerly known as the Carrier Dome.

[Matt Norlander]

Still on this podcast, it's always the Carrier Dome, except what we do for the Final Four. And one. Gosh. It's been then.

[Gary Parish]

It could be.

[Matt Norlander]

It's been a minute since Syracuse Was in the final four and one. Now that I. Now that I think about it, maybe we can get that back next season. I will also say ACC is a loser. So 1 and 2A and Emmett Pitt. You pick it.

[Gary Parish]

Animate Pitt. I think I'm, I think I took a. Texas A and M. Wow.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, one and three. I'll take the next one. Is me. Missouri at Notre Dame. Give me Notre Dame. I actually think the Fighting Irish will get that one next season. So that's two and three for the acc. Georgia at Florida State.

[Gary Parish]

Georgia at Florida State. I'm going to take Georgia.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, so that's two and four. Oklahoma at Wake Forest. I'll take Wake. That's three and four. Miami at Ole Miss. You're obviously we're gonna. So that's three and five where we'll take Ole Miss to beat Miami. Virginia Tech at South Carolina. What's the pick gp?

[Gary Parish]

Virginia Tech at South Carolina. Let's take the Hokies.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. Okay. So four. We've already. We have. We just finished Tuesday. We've doubled up the ACC's win total from last season.

[Gary Parish]

Man, they need to put. They need to clip this and put it on the ACC Network.

[Matt Norlander]

That's correct. 4 and 5 for the ACC by the end of. You heard it here first Wednesday. NC State at Auburn. Auburn wins. So that's what, 4 and 6. Louisville at Arkansas. Gary Parrish. Who's winning? ACC or SEC?

[Gary Parish]

You know how much I trust buildings. You know, I'm a building truster at my core.

[Matt Norlander]

Can't believe we're doing building trust or talk in the middle of June.

[Gary Parish]

You know, I'm a building truster at my core. I'm going to trust Bud Walton Arena. I'm going to trust Bud Walton arena to come through for Arkansas. I think Louisville's the better team. I think Arkansas wins the game.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, that's 4 and 7. 4 and 5. 4 and 6. 4 and 7 for the ACC. SMU at Vandy. I'll take that one. I'll take Vandy. So that's four and eight. Clemson at Alabama. Four and nine.

[Gary Parish]

Gp we're taking Alabama.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. Four and nine.

[Gary Parish]

Building truster.

[Matt Norlander]

Here's a. Here's an interesting one. Mississippi State of Georgia Tech. I can't believe I just called Mississippi State of Georgia Tech interesting.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

It'S the middle of June, man. What do you want from me? Give it to. Give it to the Bees.

[Gary Parish]

I'm going. I mean, you're talking to a Mississippi. I'm going. Mississippi State.

[Matt Norlander]

Foreign 10. Okay.

[Gary Parish]

It's getting bad again.

[Matt Norlander]

Outrageous. LSU at Boston College.

[Gary Parish]

Man.

[Matt Norlander]

I'll take it. It's in my region. LSU should be better. You know what though? What the hell, let's go with the Eagles. That's five. That's five and 12. Or five and. Is that what it is? Not. I've lost.

[Gary Parish]

It can't be 5 and 12. Your math. I knew you were going to screw this.

[Matt Norlander]

I have an 11. Hold on. I've got bought. We've got Boston.

[Gary Parish]

You've just done all this and you can't even know the numbers.

[Matt Norlander]

Get easy. Well, Boston, let's go over the winners again. The ACC. We can get this real quick. Duke 1. Geez. Notre Dame is 2. Wake is 3. Hokies are 4. LSU is 5. Yeah, so that's 5. That's 5 wins. And then what? Virginia at Texas is the last one. It's actually a good game.

[Gary Parish]

Texas.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, so we got three more wins, but five overall. So that's five and 11. Five and 11 for the ACC next season. Okay, mark it down.

[Gary Parish]

David Cobb. David Cobb, our friend David Cobb. He has a piece up@cbs sports.com right now. He also has the SEC. He has different winners and losers, but he also has the SEC winning 11 to 5.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, there we go. Now let's talk the specific matchups. I think objectively speaking, the best games here. Florida at Duke, Carolina at Kentucky, Louisville at Arkansas, Virginia at Texas, maybe Clemson, Alabama. What stands out to you? The two are the most obvious.

[Gary Parish]

Florida, Florida, Duke is obviously awesome. North Carolina, Kentucky is two blue bloods, both of which I have ranked in the top 25 and 1. Those are the two clear best games on the Tuesday night. And then on Wednesday it's Louisville, Arkansas, I think probably followed by maybe North Carolina State, Auburn or Virginia, Texas. But here's. Here's always the way I like to put it, if you could only watch one of these games, they said, hey, you get the TV for two hours, one channel. You can only watch one of these games. Which one would it be? I think for me it would be Florida at Duke.

[Matt Norlander]

I think it's got to be Florida at Duke. It is conceivable by the time those teams play that they're both in the top five. Although given the nature of really how many strong non conference games there are for these teams and across the sport, it could be a situation where duke is ranked 8th and Florida's 14th. But they both look really, really good. And it's a function of how the AP Top 25 voting works with all that but they're both, they both register as Final four national championship contenders next season. That's the best of the bunch and a good job by you know, ESPN obviously programs this and to get Florida Uranium champ against DU Duke, that's big time stuff. Duke's got a heck of a non conference schedule. It's not the only one. But getting this on top of everything else that it's involved in next season is big stuff. Carolina, Kentucky. Where's Carolina? A month into the season with Hubert Davis entering a hot seat season, there's some intrigue there. Kentucky year two under Mark Pope, what do we get from all that? But yeah, Florida, Duke is the most enticing one overall. We mentioned Virginia, Texas as the last. It's the last one on the graphic here. Virginia actually has a roster that I think should be expecting to make the NCAA tournament in year one under Ryan Odom. They go and play Texas year one under Sean Miller and, and those two teams from a roster standpoint don't seem to be separated by all that much. So if you're looking for the sneaky good game amongst all of them, I think that is, I think that is certainly it. But. But yeah, overall like I think they did a pretty decent job. Will Wade going to Auburn to play Bruce Pearl. That could be fun. We'll see what you know Wolfpack have done a nice job here building up their roster and that's obviously got some good potential as well. But overall, you know, leading the pod with it because it came out officially, you know, all but a couple hours ago before we, we fired up the, the machine here. There's another Big 12 thing get to before we break but any other thoughts, comments?

[Gary Parish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

That you want to make about this?

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, something that always stands out to me and I, I first started noticing it when I guess first got this job in a previous version of my career. I didn't do any of this other stuff. I didn't talk into microphones, I didn't talk on tv. I didn't get into a studio. I just wrote columns. I was just a writer. Like my first contract with CBS Sports is just to write a column. That's all I was hired to do. And so I would spend the entire season just going to games. I would just fly around and go to games and spend time on campuses. And I always, I guess this was a time when we had the ACC Big Ten Challenge. I always or I never understood why it wasn't a priority to make sure Duke and Carolina were playing home games in the same year. On different days. So that if you were somebody like me, the national media flying in, you can see Duke on a Tuesday night in North Carolina on a Wednesday night now and then I always argued and, and so obviously you're alternating home. This year you're home, next year you're on the road. That's typically the way it goes. So you can't have Duke, North Carolina at home every year. But in the years that Duke and North Carolina are home, great. And then in the other year where they got to be on the road, I would always argue have Michigan and Michigan State play home games that same year, one on Tuesday, one on Wednesday. And so every year, if you were going to cover the ACC Big Ten challenge, you could say, I'm going to Michigan and I'm going to see a Tuesday night game and a Wednesday night game or I'm going to Carolina, I'm going to see a Tuesday night game and a Wednesday night game. And they have the opportunity to do that here and they just didn't do it the way you could do it here is same thing, have Duke playing at home on a Tuesday in North Carolina playing at home on a Wednesday. They have Duke and Carolina both playing on Tuesday and Carolina's on the road, Duke's at home. And then you could just, instead of Michigan, Michigan State, just use Auburn, Alabama and have them always in the same year playing at home. So that if you're the national media, we're going to Alabama. Yeah. And they just don't do that. Now you and I work for people who make television schedules and we have these conversations with them sometimes. So let me state, these things are not ever as easy as I'm talking about them right now. A lot of things go into it and it's possible I could be talking to somebody in the ACC SEC office like later today and they could say, yeah, G.P. great idea. You think we haven't thought of that? But like there's more into it and we just can't make it work for a variety of reasons. And I would say okay, but I do think it's a missed opportunity. For whatever reason, it doesn't happen. It is a missed opportunity. If I were in charge of it and they said you can make it how you want every year I would either have Duke and Carolina playing home games on up on different days or Alabama, Auburn playing home games on different days so that the national media could fly to one place and cover your event on both Tuesday and Wednesday night with high profile games and awesome basketball arenas.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, certainly an additional positive impact you can get in terms of overall coverage. But as you just said, there's plenty of logistics that go into that as well. Between now and when we play this what I will be interested to see is when these games get played and it's you know, they're good non com matchups. But as I said before, like we have we are actually it's it's borderline an embarrassment of riches how many good non conference games we have on the schedule upcoming. It just feels like to me between last season, this season there has been a general uptick. We'll get to some more of that by the way, next week on the pod but the the ACC just completely Pratt falling against the sec that was it wasn't the thing that made everyone stop and take notice that the ACC was down. The SEC was good because there was some of that going in. But it was it just it certainly put those carts on those tracks for the rest of the season and understandably so. And the data back that up in terms of the strength of one league and the inferiority of another league. Where will those respective leagues be by the time we to nearly a month into the season when they get played? One more quick bit of conference news. GP Just real quick, we don't have to go too deep in it. But also earlier On Thursday the Big 12 did release not its schedule but it's it's rotation, its partners, which teams are schools only to play once, which are they going to play twice with with home and homes. To me there are six schools that matter more than any other heading into next season and they are Houston, Arizona, Kansas, byu, Texas Tech and Iowa State. GP I don't even know if you've seen this yet but I'm going to give them to you real quick and and just audience because last season the Big 12 did some good and had some misses here. So in the Big 12 with the way it's 18 game league schedule works is there are three two plays every school will get a home and home in league play with three other schools. Houston the preseason arguable number one team going into next season it will to play Baylor, Cincinnati and then in state Texas Tech. Now Houston got Kansas lice twice last season it got Arizona once next season. Kansas Arizona only once you Houston and Texas Tech. You know JPT chopping first team all American miles usually I might wind up being a first team all American. We'll see but you had to get those two at minimum Baylor also in state. I get that. Cincinnati their old American athletic Conference bud there and we'll see if since he's relevant, Arizona, gp, ASU as you'd expect. But I like these two. It gets Kansas twice this year, as it should. BYU and AJ to Bancet twice. That's a really wise move for the BYU end of it, by the way. They get Arizona twice as I mentioned, they get Texas Tech twice. I kind of like that. Two of the richest programs in the sport this off season and transfer cycle. And then of course BYU will get Utah twice for Kansas, Arizona, K State obviously. And then it will have Iowa State, which is a good move. Iowa State and GP's preseason top 25 and 1 cyclones make a ton of sense there. For the Cyclones they get Baylor, Kansas and then their third to play is Oklahoma State. We'll see what the Cowboys can do in year two under Steve Lutz. And then Texas Tech is the sixth team. They have BYU, Houston and then Colorado is their third team for the most part. GP, I think the Big 12 did a pretty good job here. You can't appease all masters. Some of these are rivalries in terms of the two plays and all that, but overall I'd say not knowing when they're going to play and all that stuff is literally going to be sorted out with the TV networks over the next two, three, four weeks. I thought the Big 12 did a pretty good job here, making sure it got most of the most relevant teams to playing against each other next season on the conference schedule.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, obviously if you're just trying to make the as many compelling matchups as possible, they fall short of that. But there's a lot of things that go into this that just trying to create the best games as many times as possible isn't the end all be all?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, BYU and Utah have to play twice. Like that would be unacceptable for those fan bases. So you just got to do it easy. That'd be better than the first 14th best team in the Big 12 next season.

[Gary Parish]

That's right. So for my purposes I would want BYU and Houston playing twice. BYU and Texas Tech playing twice. Maybe BYU and Kansas playing twice. Because I want to ensure AJ Devantas in Allen Field house. Yeah, you know, like that's a, that's a moment.

[Matt Norlander]

Let me check that real quick for you. Go ahead, gp. I got to see where byu, they will play Kansas next year. I don't know if it's home away so keep talking and I'll check right now.

[Gary Parish]

So I would, I would want to make as many awesome on paper matchups as I Could. The problem of course is that you've got in state rivals that have to pair up. You're going to have other situations where you go to Houston and you say, hey, your, your two plays are going to be byu, Texas Tech and Arizona. And Kelvin says, man, I'm trying to get another conference championship and you're making this way harder for me than you're making it for Grant McCaslin. Like that's not right. And like these things, these are conversations that actually happen. And so I would, I would have different matchups than them. But I know why they don't have all of the best matchups and it's because of reasons we've already stated. But I, I do think, I know that. I don't know, like it's. I guess it's just one regular season game, but I do think it's important that AJ Debance is in Alan field house and he will be. Yeah. Whether that was intentional or not, where we're going to play this one game between Kansas and byu, I, I think they got it that right because him in that building, that's a moment. Like we had Kevin Durant in Allen Fieldhouse. That's a moment. You need AJ Devanza in that building. That's a moment.

[Matt Norlander]

It's the rotation of it. So last year Kansas, remember Kansas played at BYU and they were down by like 30. Remember that? That was like the moment. It was like it was the final moment where it was. Yeah, this Kansas team just doesn't have it. Like this is when they were getting absolutely railroaded and destroyed, eviscerated by BYU on the road. That's when we realized this. So this is the return game and they just didn't opt to have BYU in Kansas play twice. BYU will get the benefit of hosting Houston, hosting Iowa State. They will not have to go to those venues. But I agree with you. You know DeBancer, he might wind up being one of the three best players from the sport next season. It will be awesome whenever that game gets played. I would have to think that's going to either be a. It'll be a prominent prime time game on a Saturday or Monday. That would be my guess. Having him in Allen Fieldhouse is a big win. So again this is just the opponent matrix. We won't get out and out league schedules that is way later in the summer. But coincidentally enough here in this mid June day, we've got notable conference scheduling news and figured we'd dive right in.

[Gary Parish]

So there was another big headline earlier in the week Coaching challenges are coming to college basketball. Norlander had the headline CBSSports.com we're going to spend a few minutes on that next. First though, let's get a word from our partners.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, that's great. And now we'll come back in 3, 2, 1.

[Gary Parish]

So coaches challenges are coming to college basketball next season. Norlander, you handled the headline for CBSSports.com so why don't you tell everybody what they need to know.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, if you are, if you're excited, over the finger twirl. Well, guess what? It's coming back more than ever here. Here's the deal. Next season, coaches will be able to challenge specific calls once per game and it will be two times per game. If the first challenge that they issue winds up being successful, if they lose, lose that challenge, then they lose a timeout. If there reaches a point in the game where the team has no more timeouts left, they cannot challenge because the penalty for being wrong is to lose a timeout. This was approved earlier this week by the playing rules oversight panel and it is being done to help add to the fluidity of the end of the game. And that is helpful. Now there is, there's a narrow, a somewhat narrow window on what coaches can challenge. It is out of bounds calls, basket interference or goaltending. So whichever player might be affecting whether a basket was good or not, those can be challenged by a coach. Is the ball out on the right person? The guy was his guy, the foot on the line, was he not that stuff. Or block charge calls in the restricted area, in the, in the semicircle, underneath the rim. Those are what the coach can challenge. There was some, and this is, this is a good headline here. Okay. But I wrote a news or slash column on this because we still are going to, this is a, this is a positive step of progress and it's being done to help, you know, alleviate some of the stagnation near the end of the game. GP There are other rule updates as well. We are going to have, you know, we're going to have continuation so interpreted I think close to what we have at the NBA level with, you know, continuation for ANN1 as I wrote in the story, I think that is going to be a official by official, case by case situation that is going, that is a relatively major update to the game flow and gameplay of college basketball will obviously benefit the most talented players on the floor. I think that'll be a little bit rickety to get going. Nonetheless, we will have that. So that's a, that's a noted update in addition to a couple other minor ones. But there was positive response to this and I think there should be but unfortunately if you saw the headline and thought this meant okay coaches challenges are coming. We're going to get rid of this parade of monitor reviews. That's just not going to happen. I mean officials are still going to be able to to go to the monitor of their own volition at any point in the game for scoring quote timing mistakes, scoring errors, shot clock violations, 2 point versus 3 point field goal attempts, flagrant fouls, end quote and and even more I would like to see specific and they you know the NC release said listen we've we're going to have a point of emphasis in trying to speed up the game just not have this be something that is unfortunately become a serious bug when it comes to college basketball and college hoops is not the only NBA. You watch the NBA games they have this issue as well. I would like to in every essence where if a mono review is necessary, quote unquote necessary. Those reviews happen during media timeouts. For example, sometimes you get this some guy makes a three his toe was actually on the line. They make the correction during the commercial break. Come back. Hey, just so audience knows that three pointer that happened a minute and a half ago in game time, it's actually it's two. Here we go. That to me when that happens with 13 minutes to go in the second half, it doesn't affect the ultimate outcome of the game because there's more than enough time for the players to play out and for the game to play out as need be. With all of that, I don't think that we have enough here to really give me confidence GP that this issue that I know you as much as I say that seriously, I know you deal with this as much as anyone because you're literally sitting in the studio and sometimes waiting to go live on television, sometimes at 1:07 in the morning. So you are as sensitive and aware to this issue as any die hard fan that is watching the games. Quite clearly it has become a plague on the sport. This should improve it. But if you the bottom line is if you think this headline is going to lead to a massive reduction in monitor views, I would love to be wrong. You know me, I tend to be rosy on outlook. I'm just not there yet. I think there actually needs to be more work done in specific intention when it comes to officials monitor reviews under what circumstances? What needs to be reviewed, what can be simply put off to media timeouts when they can get that done when there already is a stoppage in play. Your thoughts on the. On the real chains that will be coming to college hoops next season, I.

[Gary Parish]

Largely agree with you. It's a step in the right direction. But the idea that it's just going to make the viewing experience perfect or better than ever is just. We're short of that. And you're exactly right. Like, I run into these. Like, I know fans hate it. I do, too, all the monitor reviews. But it, like, does quite literally impact my life. Like, I'm. It is not just at end of games 1. 45 in the morning. You know, we don't sit at that desk all night without moving. Like, we have a bullpen area that we call the bullpen area. We all sit out there and eat and watch games and talk and whatever. And then when there's about four minutes left on the clock before a half, the stage director comes in, says, all right, hey, we're at the four, and we all go out there and sit, and suddenly you're just. You're just in a different space. And it is often freezing in that studio, all right? Just like, very cold. Everybody's free. So you get out there because you think you're going on TV in about five minutes, six minutes or so. And you know, you got to get your shots right. Get your shot sheets out there.

[Matt Norlander]

Look, that makeup picked up on the whole deal.

[Gary Parish]

All the. All your makeup touch, all that stuff. And then they're at the Monitor, and it's like, man, we've been out here 20 minutes. I'm freezing and my food's getting cold and whatever. You know, there's just all. It's just irritating. And then you do it late at night. You're exactly right. It's like, yo, man, I am. I got another podcast to do as soon as I get back to my hotel. Then I got to do another show tomorrow morning at 9. Every review right now is costing me 10 minutes, is 10 minutes and 10 minutes. So it's irritating. This will help. But they're still going to be at the monitor all the time. And this is a thing that I used to have a strong opinion about that I've just about flipped it completely. I used to be of the opinion, hey, if you can get it right, you should get it right. All right.

[Matt Norlander]

Like, hey, Mark, with you on this, I've. I've. I have walked back some of my feelings. Not entirely.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, if you can get it right, get it right. That's where I used to Be, hey, we have all the technology. If you can get it right, you should get it right now. I'm like, I don't care, man. Let's just play, you know, like, let's just play. I don't care.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

Similarly, like, we all have these things in our hands that deliver news to us all the time. There's probably a point in our lives where we were like, man, what if you ever carried around something and everything that was happening in the world, you would know about it immediately. Immediately you'd be like, that would be amazing. Well, so now here we are. Do we really need this? Do I need to know everything that's happening in the world the second that it's happening at all times? I don't think, I don't. Not only do, I don't think I need it, I don't think it's good for me. All right, so do we really need to get every little thing in a basketball game, right? No, I don't think we need to. Like, if you take six seconds out of a game, we play a 40 minute game. If you make it 39 minutes and 54 seconds and just rip six seconds out of the middle of the first half have. It has no impact on the game whatsoever. None. So I don't need to get every little thing right there. I don't need to get every little, like, let's, let's, let's just play. And it rips so much drama out of the end of the games. When you're just watching three men huddle around a monitor and look at something and we're like, it just, it kills the flow, it kills the intensity. Makes for bad television. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a, it's a TV show, it's television product. It's not good television. So step in the right direction. Sure. Complete fix. No, but better than what we had last season. And that, that became increasingly clear throughout the season, even in the NCAA tournament. We got to do something about this. And asap. I applaud them for doing something about it asap. But we're still going to have some issues to some degree.

[Matt Norlander]

We will. And even like specifically on, you know, like timing errors, as I wrote in the, in the column, unless it is actually egregious, and I would actually argue this would rarely ever apply because of the nature of how basketball is even played. Like if for whatever reason you have a timing error and these. It's not like this happens weekly in the game. It doesn't. But let's you know, for whatever reason you lose, you know, a second and a half, you know, with two and a half minutes ago, who cares? Like that's not going to impact the ultimate score of the game, especially with how possessions move and players up and down the floor. You know, these tiny discrepancies in, in game clock. Just even I would even argue 20.5 seconds versus 20.9. I, I would argue that still doesn't is not worth the monitor view and stoppage. It's just that much time to me. One, there is, there is an indiscernible threshold, you know, whether that's 15 seconds to go 10 seconds ago, that, that I get. Once you are truly in a, a one possession game with much less on the shot clock and the shot clock's entirely turned off, then I, then I'd hear the argument for it. But, but I, I ended the column with this like another rule change that's coming which is necessary is there's now going to be the option for common foul flagrant one and flagrant two for shots to the groin. This was most notable last season when J.T. toppin got kicked out of a game for an inadvertent groin shot. And then Grant McCaslin said, I'm going to come join you back there, buddy. And he was out before the first media timeout. And so now there will be the ability to look at these shots to the groin and say, okay, is this a flagrant two? Are you gone flagrant one where it's two free throws and possession of the ball or is it just common foul? That's good. But also every single time that happens as a necessity of reviewing it, they're going to go to the monitor. So I found it all too appropriate that in a release that leads on how coaches are going to be able to challenge and we're going to increase flow of the game. Oh, by the way, we're going to redo that whole how we interpret the groin shot stuff. And by doing that there will be more monitor reviews making up for it.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, and I don't like the more monitor reviews, but I do like them having more leeway there.

[Matt Norlander]

I agree too. Yes.

[Gary Parish]

There are times in basketball games where things happen and you go, oh, but it struck him above the shoulders, you know, or in the groin and it's like, well, by the letter of the law he's got to go to the locker room. He's done tonight. But we all are watching and we're going, this ain't right. We're all what J.T. toppin was a perfect example of this. The whole world watched that. And unless you were on the other side of it, you probably said this is crazy that they're kicking him out of the game. But based on the way everything was written and the, well, once this happens, this is what has to happen, then, then he's got to be removed and we all, none of us like. So now that the officials will have some leeway and it won't be without controversy because one guy's going to get kicked out of a game and then Sunday the same thing's going to happen in another game and that guy's going to get to stay in the game and then those videos will get spliced together and we'll have our controversy. But I like officials having leeway on this stuff because too often and not, and I'm not insisting it happens often, but it happens enough to where we recognize it. There are times where people have been removed from games and it doesn't make sense based on anything other than, well, that's just what the rules say have to happen now.

[Matt Norlander]

Agreed. We listen positive steps forward. We'll see how it is implemented next season. What changes there are. The goal here is to get games back, you know, one last thing and then we can talk Ziegler and call her show. But it is definitely, it's been an issue for the college basketball audience, like the people that care enough to find this pot. Hey, we absolutely love you. You find this pod in the middle of summer with us the whole way. Appreciate you on that. This is the group and there are, you know, I think literally, quite literally, not as much as I'd like to believe. There are millions listening to this podcast. I know this episode. I know that's not necessarily true. But there are millions of college basketball fans when the game times. The windows for the games have now crept to 2 hours and 7 minutes. 2 hours and 11 minutes. And it's not in that 2 hour window or even that 2 hour, 2 minute, 2 hour, 3 minute window. And it affects how you view. Okay, this game is now going long. I gotta change, I gotta change to this station or I gotta log out of this app and go to this to see this kind of game. It does have a real time impact on how people enjoy watching the sport, looking for the teams, their favorite teams and doing all that. So all of this is being done with the intention of getting it back to having the average game length in the regular season closer to that two hour window. We'll see if they can if they can get that done.

[Gary Parish]

One last thing to touch on before we get out of here. Headline from this morning. A U.S. district Court judge has denied Zaki Ziegler's motion seeking a fifth season to be on the University of Tennessee's men's basketball team. The judge noted that during a hearing on the motion, Zakai Ziegler did acknowledge that name, image and likeness compensation for NCAA athletes is controlled independently by third party nil collectives and brands, and that those collectives could also provide former players like himself with nil compensation. In other words, the judge is saying, if they want to give you this money, they can give you this money. Nobody's stopping them. Obviously, the catch is they ain't gonna give it to me unless I can play basketball. But in the ruling, the judge ended it with these words. This court is a court of law, not policy. And what the NCAA should do as a policy matter to benefit student athletes is beyond the reach of the Sherman act and TTPA and by extension, this court. Sakai Ziegler's attorney, released a statement. I'll read that to you, then I get your thoughts. We are disappointed. The court declined to GR Preliminary injunction on the basis that the incident blade does not directly control nil compensation. Just days after the House settlement confirmed that they would do exactly that. This ruling is just the first chapter of what we believe will ultimately be a successful challenge. We intend to press forward and are evaluating the best path ahead for Zakai. End quote. First, let me ask you, do you agree with that sentiment that the House settlement confirmed that schools are going to be running or in controlling collectives? That's not entirely true, is it?

[Matt Norlander]

No, that's not. No, that's a broad. That's a little bit too broad of a statement.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

Personally, on that, I wouldn't. Yeah, continue. But I would not say I agree with that.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I agree with the sentiment, but either way, here's the gist of it. The Kai Ziegler just wanted to play a fifth year basketball to make a lot of money, period. He had no other, like, well, you know, there was this Covid thing or, you know, I only played six games my sophomore year. Or there's no. There's no, like, come on, guys, give me. It's just like, I want to do this because these people will give me a lot of money to do it. And the judge here said, I ain't gonna be the one that. That grants you the injunction. So we'll see. Where it goes from here. But it's a. Obviously, it was a long shot anyway. Perhaps. I think. I think we suggested as much. I know you did, but still not a great day for Tennessee basketball.

[Matt Norlander]

No, not. Yeah. Long shot. And because one of the other things the judge said, you know, apparently the. The state of Tennessee has been one of the central states in terms of really pushing against current NCAA rules and having legislation be born beneficial for the student athlete. The most prominent example is Diego Pavia, who's going to play another year at quarterback for Vanderbilt. But keep in mind, among a couple of other discrepancies, one of the big ones was he wasn't using. The judge in his case ruled that he wasn't using his clock playing at the JUCO level for his years, eligible at the Division 1 level. Zaki Siegel doesn't have this. He played, you know, a tremendous amount of games in his career. And now I feel obligated to say it in real time to remind our audience, I think it was 138. It might even be more than that Zakai Ziegler played in his career. Look at your boy here. 138. Right on. Right off the top of the dome. So he.

[Gary Parish]

More important than the 138 is in four consecutive years, he played 35, 30, 36 and 37. Yeah, yeah, he did it. He did what you're supposed to do.

[Matt Norlander]

He fulfilled his college experience. Whether he pursues further litigation, I guess, remains to be seen. To listen to his lawyer, it would seem like they're going to continue to pursue this, as you know, they have every right to do. Getting struck down in the state of Tennessee actually signals to me that the slope gets even steeper here. There is a footnote in the ruling here from the judge. It says, quote, the court takes judicial notice that the North. And I apologize for some of the legal here, but I'll read this for a point here. The court takes judicial notice that the Northern District of California approved the house settlement on June 6 after the hearing, meaning this hearing. But plaintiff does not base his preliminary injunction request on the economics that may come to pass if NCAA member institutions implement the House settlement. So approval of the House settlement does not change this court's analysis period, end quote, vote. Meaning that everything tied to the House settlement and the. In the. Truly, the sea change in college athletics here, as far as this judge is concerned, does not have bearing on the case. And the complaint that the plaintiff in this case, Ziegler, is. Is bringing forth to the court, it. It is a blow To Ziegler, it's a blow to Tennessee. I'm not surprised it happened. I don't think he ultimately gets a fifth year of eligibility. And it is. It is a reminder, I think, in the big picture here, while way more often than not when there is a. A lawsuit brought against a school, a university, or the ncaa, usually that lawsuit goes in favor of the plaintiff in the NCAA or the school or the conference is on the losing end, typically. But there are cases where that doesn't happen and the establishment, in effect, wins. That's an instance here. And I think it would behoove us to just keep this at front of mind when we move forward that, yes, there will be more lawsuits that come. There's. Right now, house settlement just got finalized. There is a Title 9 lawsuit on behalf of some from some female student athletes that say, basically, hey, the way this is tilted against us goes against the spirit nature of Title nine. Whether that succeeds or not, I don't know. But I think it is. It would be foolish to predict with any real amount of certainty any lawsuit moving forward now that the dynamics of how schools pay their players have changed at the NCAA's behest. Like, this is what they sought. They had to settle for it. They didn't want a chance going to court and losing even more money. But when it comes to player, player eligibility. Gp, you know, the rule is you get five years to play four seasons. I told you when we talked about this case before, I'm actually in favor of just saying, you know what? You get five years to play NCAA athletics, your clock is five years. And if you're lucky enough to say you have five, and you play every single game imaginable, and that means you wind up playing 170 games, more power to you. But if you. If the breaks of fate against you are against you, and you get injured in three of those seasons, you only get, say, two full seasons, then that's the breaks. I kind of like the blanket. Overall, I think having an older sport is better for the sport. The older the player, the better the player. I think the skill level and overall playing college basketball during this Covid era has noticeably been up. Now we're set to tick back just a little bit. Not the end of the world. I'm in favor of five to play five with no waivers, none of that stuff. No red shirts, none of it. You just get five to play five. How this kind of ruling would impact that moving forward, I don't know. I don't think it's coming in the next two or three years. I would personally be open to it it. But I'm not against the idea that, you know what, at some point you've expired your, your play clock, you can get on with your life and allow the next wave of incoming high school recruits get their chance in to get, you know, into the college experience and have their opportunity to play.

[Gary Parish]

Because this has gotten harder for high school players.

[Matt Norlander]

Questionably, yes.

[Gary Parish]

I mean there's like top 100 guys signing with mid major programs because they don't have high major offers anymore. It's never been tougher for a high school basketball player to get into a power conference and play immediately than it is right now. Take Florida, perfect example, pre nil transfer waivers. Florida would be replacing that backcourt with the best high school players they, they could or guys who were on their bench probably. Instead they replace them with like proven high level established college basketball players that will make Florida better than Florida otherwise would be. And it prevented high school players who otherwise might have been at a place like Florida from getting to a place like Florida. So these are all unintended consequences of the constant changes in the sport. But I wouldn't be against some version of, of what you're suggesting. I guess that bottom line at this way I don't know where any of these lawsuits are heading. I just know that we're not going to stop getting them anytime soon. And it is hilarious that less than a week after the house settlement that's designed on some level to bring stability to the sport, we've already got a big title, nine lawsuits ready to go.

[Matt Norlander]

And I mean as reliable as the Sunrise gp. I mean it really is. And yeah, I, you know, I understand like there's a, a certain level of fatigue with this, with, with, with sports fans. How does this affect how I enjoy college football, college basketball, et cetera? Well, on certain level it does because these policies do shape the way that teams are able to take form and players are able to play. And there are bigger picture impacts even if you can't immediately see what those are in the moment as they, as they happen here. We can get out of here. Before we do though, I did want to just say, you know, if I know people watching, listening, are aware of a couple of big music guys, if the deaths of Sly Stone and Brian Wilson have not yet impulsed you to, and you're not too familiar with their catalogs, please go find them. And Pet Sounds obviously gets a ton of, of love as understandably so. It's one of the most influential Important records of all time. But Surfside up the. The album that was made about four or five years after that is also nearly as good. And if you have not seen Love and Mercy, it came out, geez, I think it's been a decade now. I mean, yeah, you got to be a pretty influential, important person to get an actual, like, biopic made about your life as a. As someone in the music industry. And John Cusack and Paul Dano play two different versions of Brian Wilson. Have you seen that movie GP Love?

[Gary Parish]

I've seen that.

[Matt Norlander]

It is. It's pretty damn. Dano is insane. I mean, Dano as a young Brian Wilson is.

[Gary Parish]

Is.

[Matt Norlander]

He's an awesome, awesome actor. So if you have not seen that, I highly recommend it. And yeah, Brian Wilson, absolutely one of my, One of my musical heroes. The one thing here. And we can. We don't have to wax too much on this, but I didn't want to at least use the pulpit here for people. And I, I wasn't around the 60s when Pat sounds was made, but in growing up, learning to love music and reading all about it, what's. What always kind of bends my brain is that. But there are albums that you and I have always just known to exist in this world, right? We just, we. We were born into this world and we discover this music and what we don't have a good grasp on and we can, we can get it with certain other albums that came out during our lifetime. Like, I was all but 10 when. When nevermind came out, but I do have a. Somewhat of a grasp and understanding of how that really just altered the diamond, the dynamic of what the music world is and what it could be. And, and with all that, and particularly like growing up in the 90s as hip hop really changed so much of what we see about the world. But with the Beach Boys and with Pet Sounds and with the Beatles, we have albums here that have just become so much a part of our tapestry of our world. When you listen to Pet Sounds in particular, or go and listen to Revolver, listen to Sgt. Pepper, the Beatles and the Beatles and Beach Boys had this like, like really playful rivalry. And Paul McCartney even had to like bow down and say, God Only Knows is the greatest song ever written. Like, I cannot top what Brian Wilson did. These. These were. These were pieces of art that were inconceivable to our planet until someone came along and like. And thought them up. Pet Sounds is attributed to the Beach Boys, but It is essentially 95, all of Brian Wilson creation and what was happening in his Brain. And he did. This is the thing that I will never get over. I think it's just so amazing. You know, he did it when he was 23 years old. And, yeah, like, you know, there are pro. Like, in some ways, Brian Wilson was a genuine project.

[Gary Parish]

The best time to do it in music, though, correct?

[Matt Norlander]

Like Mozart was doing what he was doing at freaking nine years old. And yes, the overwhelming, like, if you go and look at some of the most influential albums, songs, records, pieces of art, I'll specifically put it to music. The amount of it done by the. The men and women who had not even hit, like, 25 is astounding to me because in many ways, like, the human brain, like, you're still developing a sense of the world, a sense of yourself. But I'll never. It'll never not blow my mind. Your oldest son is how old right now?

[Gary Parish]

GP22.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. So he's a year away from being as old as Brian Wilson was when he wrote Pet Sounds. That just is incredible to me. So, yeah, if you are unfamiliar with Pet Sounds, go find it. It's. It might be hard for our younger listeners to really truly, I guess, get a grasp on it, because you might listen to be like, yeah, I've heard. Okay, I've heard. Wouldn't it be nice? Or whatever, but, like, listen to the isolated vocal tracks. Listen to the isolated orchestral tracks. This is one guy that did this. And Sly Stone, I don't want to slide him either. He was truly. Those are two of the seven or eight most foundational, influential music figures of the 20th century, or maybe all time in music. And we lost them within 48 hours. That's like a massive, massive blow. They were also, in some ways, ways, this phrase gets overused. I think it applies to both of them. They're also torture geniuses. Like, in some ways, we were even fortunate to get as much as we did out of them. And it is a damn shame that they, you know, in order to create their great art, they. They really endured different kinds of internal tragedies and some of their own doing, and some of it was coming to drugs and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, Sly Stone, Flying the Family Stone, also really good stuff and groundbreaking in their own way. I think that was the first. I think they were the first act to get a top 10 hit to feature white white men, black men, black women in the same group. I don't think Sly. I think Sly in the Family Stone was the first one to ever chart that. And, yeah, trailblazing group as well. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see I got the albums behind me. I know GP Is a big fan. Sorry to ramble just a little bit here, but, man, oh, man, I've been. I've been on, as I know you have. I've been.

[Gary Parish]

Been.

[Matt Norlander]

I've been just, you know, playing the records, watching some YouTube stuff, and we'll continue to for the rest of the week. I'm actually seeing, by the way, I'm seeing Ringo Starr tonight. He's playing right here in Connecticut. So I'm taking my kids. They're going to see a living beetle for the film. It's. That also is not lost on me, the fact that my kids are genuinely, like, massive Beatles fans. I got to take my younger one. He's taking bass lessons right now. He loves. He loves maca there. So it is. I'm hoping maybe they do a little bit of a Brian Wilson homage when I. When I go see Ringo and his band later tonight.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, that'll be fun. I'm doing something similar with my kids later this month. Taking them to see Bob Dylan.

[Matt Norlander]

Love it.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, like, it's Bob Dylan, Willie Nelson. And I'm not. I've seen them both multiple times, and I'm not. If it were just me, I would not be going because I don't want to see them at this stage. I just know it's a diminished version of both. And I don't like. It makes me uncomfortable, even if it doesn't make them. But I want my kids. My kids want. My kids have asked, they want to go. And I want my kids to be able to say they saw Bob Dylan, they saw Willie Nelson. So we're going to do something similar to that on Brian Wilson. And by the way, if you care about basketball and don't care about this stuff, just end it now. Turn it off, because we ain't getting back.

[Matt Norlander]

This is for us.

[Gary Parish]

This is for us. We're just talking. I. As soon as Game 3 NBA Finals was over last night, I just. I went down a rabbit hole. I listen, obviously, I've listened to Pet Sounds a million times, but I put it on just to. I don't know. I get like that sometimes, you know, something like this happens and I just want to immerse myself in it. And I went. I started watching interviews and little pieces and I just. Next thing you know, it's one in the morning and I'm still up just like immersed in Brian Wilson stuff. And like, I saw a quote from Bob Dylan one time where he Said he needs to donate his ear to the Smithsonian because he can just hear things that other people can't hear. That was his real gift. He could hear things that. And compose things and the melodies and the heart. Just, just. And. And he's truly a musical genius. Truly a musical genius. My relationship with the Beach Boys is weird. Tell me if this makes sense to you. Tell me if this is the way it happened for you at all. And obviously I'm a little older than you. Not as, not as much as it looks, but a little. I'm a little older than you. Not as much as it looks, but a little. My introduction to the Beach Boys is Fill in the blank. What do you think it is?

[Matt Norlander]

I think it's. I think. I think it's what it. What mine was. And that is them appearing on Full House.

[Gary Parish]

It's Kokomo.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. So Kokomo is like. That's. That's the full house there. Like Beach Boys had this resurrection. Yes, I have. I actually lived in Florida when Kokomo was a number one hit. So I actually have like, you know, these, these images being like seven or eight at my father's. My father worked at Radisson and like hearing Kokomo non stop and. Yeah. Like the. Uncle Jesse played with them. Yeah. So anyway, so that's my introduction.

[Gary Parish]

Kokomo is like this big hit, is connected to a Tom Cruise movie. They actually wrote it for a Tom Cruise. It was written for the movie movie. And then it became this big hit and that was the Beach Boys. And so anytime somebody be like, you know, the Beach Boys are amazing, I'd just be like, kokomo's not amazing. Like, what are you. Like, what are you talking about? It just sort of seemed like cheap pop. Like what? Not with all due respect to Kokomo, it just didn't sound like this is an amazing band to me. But that's the first real thing I'm introduced to with the Beach Boys.

[Matt Norlander]

And what you pretty sure Brian Willis. I could be wrong. Sorry to interrupt. I'm pretty sure that they did that without him too. That's right.

[Gary Parish]

But I mean, I didn't remember any of this. They did the song without him. So it's not his composition, it's not his words. But they did. They convinced him to get in the video because they felt like they needed it. They needed to make it the Beach Boys. They needed Brian Wilson. And so he's in the video, but he really had nothing to do with that song. And it sounds like nothing or like that Song doesn't fit on Pet Sounds, obviously. So. But as I get older and I start to really get in the music and it's like I'm down this Beatles thing and then I'm down this Rolling Stones thing. You keep the list pop up and it's like you have to go, beach Boys, Pet Sounds. And it's like the Kokomo Guys, I mean, I guess. And then you realize, oh, wow, not that at all.

[Matt Norlander]

It's not even like. It's not. It's not California Girls. It's not. I Get around. Although even like, put on headphones and actually listen to. I get around and listen to what is happening on that song. Listen to what is happening on like, in my room. And these are all like Brian Wilson's harmonies and all that stuff. Continue. But yes, it's. It. Pet Sounds is different altogether.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, yeah. And so like you mentioned the Tortured Souls. Like, he really struggled in life. You know, he had mental health issues, drug issues. I saw an interview with him and he said, I was a druggie when I should have been a father.

[Matt Norlander]

Right.

[Gary Parish]

You know, like, he, he. It's all. All the stuff that you need for a. A movie with the highs and the lows and a great artist life. Like, they're all there. And, you know, then he struggled with memory loss as he got older. And it. It's all like, this guy was such an inspiration to so many, but then had his own struggles that made life really, really hard. But by all accounts, he did have good relationships with his children, or at least most of his children by the end and had, you know, relationships with the surviving members of the Beach Boys. Like that they. A lot of stuff got resolved, you know, before it was too late, which I always think is. Is ideal. But he was. He's just a monster. A monster in the history of popular. Popular music and just a funny story. Then we'll get out of here. So like 2008. Eight. I'm in LA for USC UCLA basketball game. Kevin Love was my club of the.

[Matt Norlander]

Beach Boys was Kevin Love's uncle. Continue.

[Gary Parish]

That's right. That's right. So I'm out there for that game. And I had sort of not become friends with. But I had a relationship with Stan Love and I believe Karen Love. Kevin loves parents. I just sort of knew them from back Eybl ABCD camp stuff. And then when they went to. Anyway is just a Saturday game and I'm talking to Stan Love after the game and he says, hey, by the way, we don't know what you got plans tonight? But my brother's band's playing.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, my God.

[Gary Parish]

My brother's band's playing a little private party tonight, if you'd like to come. Now, you said, yes, of course. But you. You like. Well, in life, you always have people like, hey, you know, my cousin's playing, or my buddy's playing, or my old roommate's playing. It's usually, like, down at the bar. Singers. It's like. Like, somebody said this sentence to me. My brother's band's playing a party tonight, if you'd like to come. The band is the Beach Boys. His brother's in the Beach Boys. So I remember going, of course. Like, are you serious? Of course. And it really was like, a private function for, if I remember correctly, a group of attorneys or something. But I remember going, yes. And then immediately thinking, I wonder if Brian Wilson's gonna be there? Because, like, that's that. With all due respect to everybody, it's like. Like, there was the Beach Boys, and then there's the Beach Boys without Brian Wilson. And that's just a different thing.

[Matt Norlander]

They're two different things. Yes.

[Gary Parish]

Two different things. And he was not there. I still remember having a. A good time. Uncle Jesse was there. He did play drums.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, John Stamos.

[Gary Parish]

John Stamos was there, but it was just, like, cool. Like, I'm. You know, I'm. I'm. Here I am with my glove's brother watching the Beach Boys. It would be awesome if Brian Wilson were on that stage. But this is still a pretty cool. Like, pretty cool experience.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. As we wrap, by the way, there is no greater discrepancy. I've said this. This a couple times before. There's no greater discrepancy between quality of an album and underwhelmingness of an album cover than this.

[Gary Parish]

Do you know where that was shot?

[Matt Norlander]

It's at the San Diego Zoo. I want to say. I think it's San Diego Zoo. I'm holding. If you're listening, I'm holding up the Pet Sounds vinyl that I've got here. And then just, like, feeding a bunch of goats and. And all of this. And it was one of the Beach Boys ideas to do it, and it's now a memorable album cover. But I just. It doesn't. The. The. The. This album cover does not represent what is actually the.

[Gary Parish]

The.

[Matt Norlander]

The sonic value and tone of what's on the record. So I've always found.

[Gary Parish]

They subsequently were banned from the San Diego Zoo. The Beach Boys were never allowed back at the San Diego because they raised so much. They raised so much hell while they were there. They were like, throwing stuff at tigers and it was crazy. Okay. And then if you're curious and correct me if I'm wrong, but the name, Pet Sounds, Brian Wilson was once asked about that and just basically said, I really like Pet Sounds. Like the sounds that animals make, I really enjoy.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I want to say version of that. There's something like. And there's a. There's an instrumental track on the album that's. That's the. That's that as well. And there might be a story of Mike Love, because Mike Love didn't initially love the album whatsoever, which is. And it wasn't like a commercial.

[Gary Parish]

Oh, it was. It was not a commercial.

[Matt Norlander]

Not a commercial. Hit all that kind of stuff. And then, as so, so often can happen, like, it just, you know, the great works of art aren't realized initially, and then they become that after the fact. But I think something Mike Love might have said to Brian Wilson had an impact on. On it because he had, like, an issue with the sound of it, and it would make animals scream or something like that. I don't remember the full story, but. But sell the legend. Print the legend. All right. I gotta get out of here and take my kids. But I appreciate the Music Corner. If anyone listen. If you guys. People listening actually want more Music Corner, I'm always willing to. To go there. But, you know, Brian Wilson's death in particular hit me pretty heavy yesterday in ways that, uh, that I didn't even expect, so. So thanks for listening. Appreciate everyone. And we will have gp you can wrap it up, but we will have the next version of our top 25 stories of the. Of the 2000, 2010 past 25 years. Next episode on that with GP and I will be coming next week.

[Gary Parish]

Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. shouts to Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. You're not subscribed. Please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcast. Apple, Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That needs to be reflected in the comments. So do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care.

[Matt Norlander]

Podcasts.