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Eye On College Basketball
After Winning the Big East, Rick Pitino & St. John's are Primed for encore | Summer Shootaround '25
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Gary Parrish
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Gary Parrish
This show is sponsored by Liquid IV. Hey there, it's Gary Parrish from the Ion College Basketball Podcast and I sure hope you're enjoying your summer as much as I'm enjoying mine. Few days at the beach, weekends on the golf course. Needless to say, it's important to stay hydrated and a great way to do it is with the Orange Vanilla Dream Multiplier from Liquid iv. This nostalgic vanilla flavor with notes of candied orange can help keep you hydrated better than water alone. And my favorite thing about Liquid IV is how convenient it is to throw a stick in your pool bag, throw another in your golf bag, then just tear, pour and enjoy. Liquid IV provides three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink. There are eight essential vitamins and nutrients. It's always gluten free and sugar free options are available. Savor the last bits of summer with Liquid IV. Tear poor, live more. Go to Liquid IV.com and get 20% off your first order with code I. That's eye at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with Code I ate@liquidiv.com hey there, it's Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports I own College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting dodo birds in leaky black. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to that like button shouts to Brandon Davies. And if you haven't yet subscribe subscribe to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel. Please also do that while you're here. Let's get into it. Today we are launching our Summer Shoot around series that we're going to be doing over a span of a few weeks as you might have heard we're going to do things a little differently this off season. We're going to do episodes on most of the schools inside the top 10 of the top 25 and 1, and episodes on a few prominent programs outside of the top 10 of the top 25 and 1. And then we're also going to auction off three episodes to the highest bidders like we've done in previous years, with all proceeds from those episodes going to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in my hometown of Memphis, Tennessee. So that's that. Here's the twist. We're going to mix up the lineup for these shows. Sometimes it's going to be me and Matt Norlander. You're used to that. But other times it's going to be me and the coach of the team we're discussing, or me and some other analyst slash columnist, or me and some local person with interesting insight into the program or Norlander and a fresh voice that we're excited to in. Hopefully it's going to be a good time. I trust that it will be. So consider that your setup for this summer Shoot around series and the first program we're going to focus on is St. John's because that's the team I have ranked right now number one in the top 25 and one. And the person who's going to help me talk about Rick Pitino's Red Storm, it's my friend John Fanta, who of course calls college basketball games for Fox Sports. NBC Sports also provides commentary for our buddies over at the field of 68. Yes, the great John Fanta. He's going to join me momentarily. For first though, let's get a word from our partners.
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- [05:31]
Gary Parrish
John Fanta is now with me. Fanta is gp Great to see you at Peach Jam earlier this month. I appreciate you being here with me today. How's summer been treating you? How's the family?
- [05:41]
John Fanta
GP Everything is great and it is awesome to be on the wonderful Ion College basketball podcast which is just fantastic. Loyal listener here. I appreciate you guys thinking of me for this and family's doing well. I'm a new dad. Andrew was born on May 7th. So my wife Vicki and I, as you know, first kid, we're jumping into it as we're talking. We're 11 weeks in and I'm learning something new every day and I'm just telling people it's like a championship week, first week of the tournament, sleep schedule on steroids. I wouldn't have it any other way.
- [06:15]
Gary Parrish
It is. I remember being a young first time father like yourself and I tell you, you're going to run through all of these moments where you feel overwhelmed, inadequate, like you don't know what you're doing and just understand none of us really knew what we were doing and probably still don't know what we're doing. But somehow, some way you get through it. I will tell you, you have quickly become my wife's favorite college basketball analyst. She looks at your family pictures and she's like, he's always so, looks so happy and his wife is so happy and they got the beautiful baby. So you've got fans in the Parish household in every corner of it.
- [06:50]
John Fanta
Well, that means a lot. Hope you and Kelly and the family doing well. And I'll tell you what, that, that really means a lot because at the end of the day, Gary, why do you and Matt do do this? Of course for, for CBS and, and why do I do the things that, that we get to do? We love our audience, we love our, our fans and you know what? It's actually a perfect segue to the episode that we're actually talking about, because I think you would agree that there was always a place for St. John's University at the big boy table, even after years of being irrelevant, off the map and flat out poor at times, missing on hires. But I don't even think that Rick Patino thought that in two years he would have Madison Square Garden going sellout after sellout. 5, 6 straight Saturdays at MSG this past winter. It was refreshing, and it is refreshing to see.
- [07:53]
Gary Parrish
It was my favorite story of the 2024, 25 college basketball season, the reemergence of St. John's as you know, I live in the south, but in the winters I'm in New York City more than I'm down here. And so I got to feel that, you know, walking around midtown Manhattan like it was, it mattered in a way that it had not mattered in a long time. And, you know, as you know, I'm quite a bit older than you, but my introduction to college basketball, in part because of where I lived, was like that 1984, 85 season. That's the one I remember the best, the earliest. And it's in part because it's the year my alma mater went to the Final Four, Memphis State at the time, but was joined there by three Big east programs, including St. John's like I grew up on Chris Mullen and St. John's and Patrick Ewing and John Thompson. And obviously Georgetown has got to find its way back to the forefront of the sport somehow, some way. But absolutely watching Rick turn St. John's back into what clearly St. John's is capable of being and really grabbing New York City in a way that it hadn't happened in a while, it was tremendous for people who maybe didn't follow it so closely. Let me run through some bullet points here with the Red Storm, and then we'll continue the conversation. So after decades of just being an afterthought in the national level of college basketball, they go 31 and 5 last season, 182 in the big east. They win the conference championship outright. Then they beat Butler, Marquette and Creighton at the Garden to win the Big east tournament, got a 2 seed on selection Sunday in the NCAA tournament, beat Omaha, and then that's the last good thing that happened because after that upset by Arkansas in the second round of the tournament, now basically everybody from that team is gone other than Zubie Edgar, 4. But Rick Patino cleaned up in the transfer portal and added most notably Ian Jackson from North Carolina, Ozia Sellers from Stanford, Josan Sanin from Arizona State, and Bryce Hopkins from Providence. The strength of that class is why I have St. John's ranked number one in my top 25 and one. So Fanta, please tell folks folks where you have St. John's ranked in this offseason and how good you think this remade roster can actually be.
- [10:07]
John Fanta
I have them ranked fourth and I've got, I think that however your top three is. My top three happens to be Purdue, Florida, Houston. St. John's then is fourth. UConn actually would be fifth, which makes that rivalry that, that much more special and extraordinary and the coaching personality. So there's so much to unpack. What do I think they could be? I think they could be a Final Four team. I think they could be a national championship caliber team. And here's why. When you load up in the transfer portal like they did, Gary, they've got the money piece down with Mike Rapoli, who was the founder of Vitamin Water and has just bankrolled this St. John's program. And Repoli is essentially bankrolling Patino, ensuring that Patino would. He's not going to go anywhere but just making sure of that in every single way. Well, what does that mean? It means that when you're recruiting in the portal and Oziah Sellers is not asking, well, how many shots is Joe Sadden going to get up from Arizona State? It means that Ian Jackson's not asking questions about Dylan Darling coming in.
- [11:16]
Gary Parrish
Who.
- [11:16]
John Fanta
I think Dylan. I think Dylan Darling is going to be the X factor to this recruiting class because I think he ultimately ends up being the point guard for this team. And that' a guy who was the Big sky player of the year, average 19 points per game. I know it was at Idaho State, but I trust Rick to be able to develop him. I think that that's the key. You still have to deal. A lot of programs still have to do. One, they have to deal with what their money situation is. St. John's money's not an object. Number two, when you, when money's not an object, you then allow yourself with the right coach and the right talker and Rick Pitino can win in any room. That's, that's one thing he could do. He can win over any room. Just, just watch him in any press conference setting, watch him in any interview. He's got that New York charm, he's got that style and it, and it resonates. It means that if one of these or two of these kids doesn't work out. St. John's isn't screwed. That's why you have the number one. Because Bryce Hopkins at his best was in the Big east player of the year mix. Yeah. Zubi Edge for at his best could be in the Big east player of the year mix could be in really I think they expect him to be an all American. You just need two or three of these guards and you got an A what feels like an infinite amount out of the portal to pan out. They have an embarrassment of riches. They have a coach who I would put up there with anybody in the nation Even though he's 72, he's like a 41 year old in a 72 year old's body. And they have the makeup, the length, the athleticism that really and I mean this, you know, part candidly but part in a complimentary way. They have an SEC like roster and in the Big east now you could say that about Connecticut. I trust Greg McDermott enough. But after that there's a clear cutoff from for, from a standpoint of on paper talent. I trust the on paper talent. I trust the coach. And now the dimension is I trust that they'll get enough wins in New York that even if they hit a wall against a hard schedule, their schedules are I'm sure we'll get to it. They're still going to be in a place where they arrive to March Madness and they've seen it all.
- [13:41]
Gary Parrish
You more or less summarized why I have them at the top 25, top of the top 25 and 1. They have an embarrassment of riches and I believe the best college basketball roster in the country. It doesn't mean they'll produce more NBA draft picks than anybody in the country. It just means that if I were trying to build a college basketball team, I would want this roster over any other roster. And then the coach speaks for itself. Like Rick Pitino is one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time. Still one of the greatest college basketball coaches working today and again in possession right now of what I would consider the best roster in the country. Just to run through it on some of the names you mentioned, like you said, Zubie Ejafor was first team all Big east last season. Bryce Hopkins was that the last time he was healthy. Ian Jackson is a former top 10 recruit. Joe San and is a former five star recruit. Oziah Sellers is a senior who just averaged 13.7 points at an ACC school last season. And then that would just be a possible projected starting lineup. But if it were that you've Got Dylan Mitchell, another former five star recruit who's average double figures at the power conference level coming off your bench. And then Dylan Darling, he's a conference player of the year who and I think you touched on something interesting there could end up really being a key factor for this team because I know publicly it is like we're going to put the ball in Ian Jackson's hands. He's our point guard and I don't doubt they'll start that way and try it and it might go perfectly. But if it doesn't, you know you've got a traditional true point guard that you can use to get you into your offense and maybe free up Ian Jackson to do what he does best, which is don't worry about all this other stuff. Just go score basketball well.
- [15:28]
John Fanta
And remember this with St. John's this past year they won 31 games. They played an easier non conference schedule. You know this one this upcoming year where you've got to play Alabama at the Garden. I credit them for scheduling this way. Ole Miss, Kentucky in the cbs in a CBS event that's going to be down in Atlanta. Can't wait for that. That's at State Farm Arena. That's going to be a huge game between Mark Pope and Rick Pitino. You've, you've got those three. No, you've got the players there. Festivals. Well, so you have Iowa State, you have Baylor, like there's no rest for the weary. That schedule is going to be an absolute gauntlet. You're going to play three high majors and you got another three and you're all three of them are SEC schools. But remember this, this past year they won 31 games. Kadari, Kadari. Richmond was terrible through the first two months of the season. If you flip the page of January this past year you would have been saying, man, you know, did he actually make a mistake transferring to St John's he was non existent GP. They were relying really everything was on Davon Smith to get it done. Then when Smith had an injury was when Richmond started to take off and they figured some things out about themselves. But that's just it. I do think there's a world where in November Ian Jackson is struggling and everybody's going to proclaim this isn't working or it's done or it's easy to do. Remember here it's a marathon. Rick has a method to his madness and with some of these kids he's trying to prove a point. Guess what? You're allowed to as a coach prove a point when that biweekly paycheck says what it says, it's a big difference at St. John's and at the top echelon of nil programs than at other programs where that might go south. So I think that, that that's the reason why your reasons, well, well taken of like Jackson, they'll start there with him. I, I don't deny that. But in the event that it doesn't work, sometimes GP your transition from mid major or low major league to high major program is dependent on the other talent that surrounds you, not just your game. So Dar Dylan Darling might find, they might find out something about him and he might find out something about himself that he didn't even realize because he was in the Big Sky. And now you're at St. John's and you're on an all star team. So that, that to me is really intriguing. I also think you can manufacture guards in the portal. To me it's a guards game. There's plenty of guards. If I still want a stable force, I actually might be contrarian in this belief. And if you disagree with me, I love the debate. I think I've seen more coaches miss on frontcourt players than just flat out miss altogether on guards because I think you can find, you can find an alternative plan because edge of force, that rock inside that makes me feel all safe inside. With St. John's I know that they're covered in on the interior which any patino team is going to rebound and defect.
- [18:39]
Gary Parrish
Well, like just on the subject of the guards being easier to find and more translatable. I remember having a conversation with Jay Wright years, years ago and people would always be like, so when you were at this place you played small lineups and at this place you might play four guards. And he was like, because they're easier to find. You know, it's much harder to go out and find 7 foot 2 rim protectors, you know, and there's only so many of them and, and they tend to go to places like Kentucky and Duke and North Carolina. So you, you're trying to find the best players. You can find the most talent and you can find the guards are easier to find than the bigs. So perhaps that's an explanation for that.
- [19:20]
John Fanta
And that's Connecticut about that. Yeah, you know, because they, they had the Dominico and Donovan clinging and they had Sampson Johnson and Donovan Clingan. But then this past year was Sampson Johnson and Terrace Reed and now Terrace is back. But like you could go right down the line like Jay Wright Lost in the Chris Jenkins buzzer beater in 2016. Daniel Chef, who held it down in the pay for that team. You, you have to still have a stable big man in college basketball in a sport where we both love it, but let's face it, in a sport where there could be a game where you shoot three of 21 from three, who is down there willing out, willing the other team on the interior, they have no question marks in their front court. The only question is if Bryce Hopkins can stay fully healthy for the full duration of the season.
- [20:09]
Gary Parrish
So I want to ask you about Hopkins in just a second because I read some interesting quotes from him the other day, but I want to circle back to Ian Jackson real quick. He's obviously from New York. Like he grew up there and now he's back there. Where I'm from down here, that always mattered. Like Memphians, who played for the Tigers was a big deal. Penny Hardaway's from here. Elliot Perry from here. Does that matter at all to New York City? Or is it just too big of a place that does it matter?
- [20:39]
John Fanta
You tell me it matters if the coach embraces it. There you go. Like, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out and I really started covering college basketball on an everyday basis around 2017. I did my undergrad Seton hall, so I'm not originally from the metropolitan area, but like, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out, like, how is St. John's this, this bad at that time? Like, obviously they, they had messed up on the hot on some of the hires. But then, you know, Peach Jam, you get this type of info. Grassroots basketball, Gary, you start to hear about coaches now. Chris Mullen, you know, he had some relationships, but it's not like he was working 24 7. We both know that. But then you hire Mike Anderson and let's face it, he didn't have ties to New York City. And so all of those connections and relationships just kind of sever. Rick Patino makes a non New Yorker want to be a New Yorker because he has that type of effect. It matters if you, if you wanted to, which at St. John's why wouldn't you want it to? They don't play there. They don't play their home games at a, at another metropolitan building. They play their home games at the building in New York City. They, they now have that building reaching out to them to see if certain dates and times work. Not the building saying, hey, wait on the Knicks and the Rangers and then you can get back to us, and we'll figure something out. We'll figure four or five dates out. They're gonna play at least 12 times at the Garden this year. That hasn't happened for St. John's basketball in a long, long time. So Ian Jackson, to me, he was going to get a bag in year two. Wherever he was, St. John's makes him a good offer. But Rick Pitino says, listen, Ian, you're a Bronx kid. You're a New Yorker. You've got that type of game. Do you want to be part of something? And you can't tell me. Look at the scene when they won the Big east regular season, their first outright Big east regular season title since 1985. The game was televised on CBS. They hosted Seton Hall. And the scene at the end of the game was wild. It was something out of the 1980s. It was something on the 1990s. And it's like. It's like when people say, with the Knicks, it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't move the needle. People don't want to. People don't want to really play. I think Jalen Brunson's made it matter again. I think Josh Hart's made it matter again to a degree. I think that, you know, Karl Anthony Towns made it really cool to be a New Jersey guy playing in New York City. It matters if you put. Make it a point of emphasis, not if you just let it be a messaging point and you don't actually act on it. You know, it was for a while St. John's was this restaurant that you went to in your childhood GP and you loved. Then you go away for a long time and you're back home for the holidays. You walk in and you have the same burger that you grew up loving. And you're like, what happened? This doesn't taste the same. And they say, yeah, we've changed hands a couple of times, and we've changed the manufacturer of that. Well, that's not why you fell in love with the place. Rick Pitino came in and did a Gordon Ramsay, you know, or a restaurant impossible, and said, clean all the crap out. What was working in 1985? Well, it doesn't. College basketball doesn't work that way anymore. Sure, money can make anything work. They want it. They. The way you want it to. And whether it's. Whether The. The non. St. John's people, the people that don't like St. John's are scoffing and. And, you know, angry that they've fallen into this. But they didn't Fall into it. They. Brian Shanley. This is a deep cut where this podcast can cover something that, that maybe another podcast. St. John's doesn't get to this point without hiring a guy from Providence who gets basketball. Father Brian Shanley is now the president there. He told Rick Patino, do what you have to do to get this program on the winning track again. Ian Jackson wants to be part of that. He wants to be Kadari Richmond, he wants to be R.J. lewis, he wants to be Davon Smith. What is Jackson have in common with a guy like a Richmond? They're New Yorkers, all the New York kids. Gp, you've been covering grassroots long enough. They all talk to each other. They're all, they're all boys. Oh, the Archbishop, Stepan, kiddo, you know, there's my boy from Don Bosco, there's my boy from Our Savior Lutheran. They're all tied in together. They all talk. Jackson talked to his New York kids who had played there and said, what do you think? They said there's going to be nothing better than this and you're going to get coached the right way and, and you're going to make money while doing it. So I think for Ian, I think you're going to see Ian start in this one role. I don't know if he finishes there. Here's what I do know. Nobody's going to set him up to average 15 to 20 points per game better than Patino and his staff by the time January, February, March roll around. I think he's going to, I think he has a chance to become one of the best scoring guards in college basketball. Remember, he had a seven game stretch in his freshman year in a system that frankly has its flaws and challenges at North Carolina. Whereas a freshman, he's averaging 19 points per game over a seven or eight game stretch.
- [25:55]
Gary Parrish
When things are down to circle back to one of your earlier points, it's very easy, particularly when they're down for an extended period of time to reach a point where you think or assume, well, it just doesn't matter the way it used to matter or it can't move the needle the way it used to move the needle. But we saw it at two different levels in New York City this year. Like it, St. John's Moose was moving the needle again and mattering as much as it's ever mattered. And the Knicks were moving the needle again and mattering more than they've mattered in a long time, as much as they've ever mattered. And how did that happen just Success, you put winning stuff on. You put a winning product out there. And what we learned over the past year in New York City, they will care deeply about college basketball and deeply about professional basketball or baseball.
- [26:42]
John Fanta
In April, it was 50 degrees and flushing. And I'm watching and I'm watching the Mets on sny and their, their stadium is full in the early springtime.
- [26:51]
Gary Parrish
Yeah.
- [26:52]
John Fanta
And I was thinking, yeah, I expect this in June, July, August, on a weekend for the most part, and then some weeknights when a marquee team is in, not this early in the season. And that if New Yorkers are smart, you know, you, you can't just lie to them. They'll read right through a lie. They will. Whereas, like down in the SEC and down the ACC and, and down in college towns. Right. You're still going to get people that are interested because it's a social activity.
- [27:23]
Gary Parrish
Sure.
- [27:25]
John Fanta
In New York, if the teams, if the program has a losing mentality and they bring in a Yukon and UConn has more fans of the game than them, why, as a fan, am I buying season tickets for the rest of the season when I can scout for $8 if it's actually interesting, if that. So you can't lie. And that's just it. With Pitino is in, in basketball, you could feel, you know, everybody's got a different, different thought process with Patino and his career and whatnot. Patino, the basketball coach, is right in the conversation for Mount Rushmore and now him at St John's in this Godfather type of role with 885 wins. And it does get me thinking. GP the thought crossed my mind for the first time this year. Right. I'm sorry to spring off, but I have to get your thought on this. Like, he's going to pass 900 and, you know, there's the vacated thing. But, like, this guy's wired. You cannot tell me. You cannot tell me, because he, he's not slowing down, that he doesn't give an inkling of a thought to saying, well, if I go four or five more years and I still have my mind and I'm at 77 or 78 and I get, you know, my 1,000th win as a coach like that, that's in that very small sliver. You can't tell me he doesn't give thought to him.
- [28:53]
Gary Parrish
Oh, I could, I could see him caring about that. I think more than that. You know what he cares about? Just working. He likes to work. He likes to. He likes to be in the gym. I remember talking to him on the phone when he was out in that period of time where he was just like trying to fill up the days with something other than basketball because basketball wasn't there anymore. And I don't want to speak for Rick, but he was like he was bored. And I remember him saying something along these lines. I assume, people assume about me that what I really miss is like walking in and you know, expensive suits and being on tv. He's like, that's really not what I miss. I miss individual workouts. I just want to get in. I just. And that's how he ends up coaching in Greece and at Iona. There are, there are men like that who just, they want to be at. Larry Brown is wired that way. Jim Calhoun was wired that way. And so I could see him coaching for several more years for two reasons. One you touched on earlier. Yeah, he's 72, turned 73, I believe in September. He doesn't sound it. He doesn't look it really. He like he. When you were, when you were. When you listen to Rick talk or talk with Rick, you don't feel like you're talking to somebody who is 72 years old. Maybe that's the simplest way to put it. But it's also, I think, the best way to put it. I don't feel like I'm talking to an old man when I watch him work. I don't feel like I'm watching an old man work. So I think he's got good years left or at least I certainly hope he has good years left. And beyond that, I think he, I think he's going to work as long as he can. The day Rick Patino stops coaching college basketball will be the day where he doesn't feel like he can do it anymore.
- [30:31]
John Fanta
Yeah, where the health is, is a which there's nothing the guy gets up. For those who don't know he's up at 4:30 in the morning, he heads to Equinox. He does a full workout. He goes back home. He'll pick up some items, some groceries, some things for his wife Joanne. He takes their dog out and he walks the dog two more miles. He's already gone through an hour long workout from 4:30 to 5:30. Gary, he's joked with me. He's right. He's like, I've accomplished more at 9am than sometimes you do in a day. He's absolutely correct. This guy's walked two miles, done a full workout, then goes to campus. You bring up the individual workouts. You know this. He's Working these kids out for two hours before practice. Then, you know, they're going to class. He'll. He'll watch a little bit of film. Then we've got an afternoon practice. And it's not until then that he actually sits down and says, you know what? I need to probably eat something today. He only eats one meal a day. He's been. That guy's been intermittent fasting for, like, 50 years. So he's a. He's in rarefied. He's in a special class. This is a guy who, you know, the way St. John's schedule worked out, they had some off time that around Christmas, but the team came back on Christmas day. They practiced, they practiced. Not that other teams don't. They practice. And then he said to his assistants, all right, let's go watch some film. And, you know, Steve Masielo said, coach, I would love to watch film. I love you. I'd watch film with you any other day. But it is Christmas. I do have to be Santa for my kids, for, you know, I have to go and be with my kids on Christmas Day. So, I mean, that's. That's the art of Rick Patino.
- [32:14]
Gary Parrish
I just love. I love that he's gotten St. John's battering again in New York City. Connecting with New Yorkers. And I love, just to put a bow on this part of it, the idea that a New Yorker like Ian Jackson could be the face of it in some ways in this upcoming season. I told you I wanted to ask you about Hopkins. Here's the question. What do we expect? The last time we saw him healthy, he was one of the best college basketball players in the country. But then he tore the acl, tried to come back last season and just wasn't right. Was able to preserve the year of eligibility, which was smart because it allowed for another payday. So he's got that now. I read a quote from him over the past week or so where he said, I kind of feel better than ever. But, you know, we'll see. What do you expect from Bryce Hopkins this season?
- [33:00]
John Fanta
You know, I. I don't think that. That I have a firm grasp on, like, okay, like, it's easy. The easy answer is, well, Gary, if he's at his best, he's going to average 16 and 8. But it's also not how St. John's is. From a perspective of this team could have five or six guys, and there's been successful teams like this, and then one emerges around January or February. Maybe that's Jackson, you know, maybe that ends up being Jackson. The thing about Bryce is he's not a particularly strong three point shooter. He's never shown us that he can consistently knock down the perimeter shots and pull up off the dribble. He's going to get open looks for this team because again, they have an embarrassment of riches. If you look at his track record, he shot 19 from 3 in 20, 23, 24. He did shoot 36%. 22, 23. That was probably the best sample size that we have. But you know, he also was a 31% shooter the, the year before that he spent. It's been a mixed bag from, from the perimeter. That's a very undefined area. And the fact is Rick wants to play a style that sees dribble penetration into potential threes. And last year that was St. John's bugaboo. They could not make three point shots. I wonder, can Bryce. Will Bryson. St. John's Will Bryce and Rick Patino be a full match from a conditioning standpoint? Because Hopkins was in a system with Ed Cooley where he could back you down, play some junkyard dog basketball playing the Al Skinner flex. That's not this style. My honest expectations are he's going to be a double figure scorer and a guy who has seven to nine rebounds per game. Double figure could be 12 points. Double figure could be he has four or five 20 points games. Do I expect him to be in the mix as one of the very best, one of the best four or five players in the Big east by virtue of St. John's roster construction? I'm actually going to say I don't, I don't think so because of the conditioning piece. How much is required to flourish from a statistical standpoint when you're coming off this and I know that he's well beyond his recovery, but GP when you haven't played in college games in multiple years, I would be a little bit surprised if he just comes out and dominates. I think you're going to see a taste of it. I think you're going to see him maybe, you know, against Quinnipiac early in the year or against another Iona. They're going to play Iona like I could see him. He needs those games because it's going to be hard when they show up to players ERA and you're playing three games as many days. That's totally new for Bryce Hopkins. That's going to be a totally different, different level for him. So I think he'll be a solid asset for this team. Do I think he's their best player or their second best player. I actually don't because I'm going to vote Jackson and Ejafor. That's kind of where I stand on him heading into the season. I'm tempering my, my exact expectations for him. I just. Because I think it's a little bit, I think it's a little bit out of bounds for a guy that's been. Been missing from the court for this long to just expect plug and play. If he does, if he's that damn good man that then, then St. John's could run away with things.
- [36:34]
Gary Parrish
Last thing before I get you out of here and I appreciate your time. We both think St. John's is going to be really good. We both have them in our top four. But if it doesn't go well, if it doesn't meet expectations, what would be the main reason? Is it a lack of continuity in the roster from one season to the next? Is it the lack of a proven point guard at the high major level? Is it that Ian Jackson isn't somebody who actually needs to be your lead guard if it doesn't work?
- [37:04]
John Fanta
What's the reason that they never find a point guard and that their perimeter defense isn't good enough? So for me, when you look at an Ian Jackson, do I think he's going to be able to defend? Yeah. Like, do I think the St. John's team can win the national championship? Absolutely. When I say my answer about Hopkins, I think there might be some St. John's fans who are like, this is confusing or this is, it's more about like, I still think they're that good of a basketball team. And that's, that's the beauty of it. They don't need him to be this. There's a couple of teams that need a certain guy to be that good and sometimes those teams end up winning with winning at very high level of games because that, that guy is that special. I think for St. John's it's, you have this point guard scenario that like a quarterback training camp scenario is real. You know, we, we don't know on November 3rd who their starting point guard is going to be. We think it's probably going to be in Jackson, but what's that going to look like, Gary? And is there a world where Ian Jackson, you're asking me, how does this not work out? I just don't want him to lose his confidence. I don't want him to be broken at all. I want him to be a scoring combo guard who can handle it at a high Level and be fantastic if I'm a St. John's fan and if I'm Rick Patino, like I thought Richmond was broken the first two months last year. Then he found it, but he actually found it because of an injury. You know, nobody, nobody wants to admit it, but that's the truth. Davon Smith going out for a little while kept Richmond from looking over his shoulder. Patino is a mad scientist. He loves depth. Dylan Mitchell should be the defensive stopper for this team. So I can't see Dylan Mitchell not succeeding. For Rick Patino. It feels like a match made in heaven for a roll guy. Whether he's a six man or, or however they. They manage the rotation. I just think it's a matter of, like Joe San and Oziah Sellers and Dylan Darling. Are you hitting on two of those three? Are you hitting on all three? Are you just hitting on one? Make no mistake, like they, they crushed it in the portal. It's. It's actually math. Maybe it's. Maybe I'm wrong for saying this, but I will say this. It's mathematically impossible for every transfer to be a grand slam because there's only so many minutes to go around and there's only one basketball. So it's just navigating role allocation. And it would just be a matter of. Of point guard play. Some of these guys that come from programs that did not make the tournament last year, and you want to make sure that they can play your brand of basketball like, for, for a guy like Joe San. And let's face it, this isn't Arizona State anymore. This is a different monster. And the same can be said for a transfer from Stanford and Osiah Sellers. And then the other thing would just be Zubi edge of. For ensuring that he stays healthy, because if he, if he were to have any issues, like they're counting on him being that guy for 30 plus minutes per game, you know, I mean, around that because he's come back to be that type of dude that that's the only way that St. John's doesn't get to the places they want to get to. And I think what's interesting is this team to me won't go 31 5. But that's not what this season about. This season is about getting to Indianapolis. This season is about getting to the second weekend at worst in the NCAA Tournament. They're going to have to navigate that when they have a rough patch in the season, because I could see that because their schedule's really hard. But they also have to remember you got to play November, December, January, February before you get to that tournament. And you can't have too much. They're going to have a bit of a burden, this team when they get to that second tournament game. Gary of let's get the monkey off our back because remember, when they enter the tournament next year, it will have been 26 years since St. John's made the second weekend.
- [40:59]
Gary Parrish
That is one of the wilder facts connected to college basketball. There used to be one about how long it had been since Arkansas had made the Sweet 16. Musselman was able to end that one. And so we'll see if Rick can can do the same thing at St. John's I imagine. You know what? I'll bet. I'll bet that he probably will. John Fanta, you were terrific, brother. I appreciate your time. You got me fired up for the season. I know we still got a few months, but you got me ready for it tomorrow, I think. So thank you for being here. Tell your family I said hello and if I can ever repay the favor, let me know.
- [41:31]
John Fanta
Anytime. GP Putting St. John's first means there are New Yorkers who I think are lining up to take you to a spaghetti dinner of some sort in New York City. Move over, Rothstein.
- [41:43]
Gary Parrish
I I enjoy spaghetti. I enjoy dinners. York City. I'll take anybody up on any offer. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. shouts to Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck Larnell thank all you guys once again for watching listening to I own College Basketball Podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcast, Apple, Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do it and I'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care.
- [42:17]
John Fanta
I Paramount Podcasts.
- [42:50]
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