Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark thinks March Madness expansion will happen before CFP

Summary

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Eye On College Basketball Podcast

Episode: Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark Thinks March Madness Expansion Will Happen Before CFP
Date: October 22, 2025
Guests: Brett Yormark (Big 12 Commissioner)
Hosts: Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander (CBS Sports)

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Overview

This episode features a candid interview with Brett Yormark, Commissioner of the Big 12 Conference, recorded live at Big 12 Media Day in Kansas City. Yormark provides in-depth perspectives on the tumultuous state of college athletics, the evolving roles of national governance, the landscape of NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) deals, potential NCAA Tournament (March Madness) and College Football Playoff (CFP) expansion, and the strategic and international ambitions of the Big 12 conference.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Life of a Conference Commissioner Amid Constant Change

• Yormark’s Reflections
  • Emphasizes the unprecedented rate of change in college athletics, dividing his job into two realms: national issues (governance, CFP, legislation) and Big 12-specific business operations.
  • His leadership style is shaped by having an “innovative and disruptive” board eager to move the Big 12 forward aggressively.
  • Draws upon his prior experience as Brooklyn Nets’ CEO in handling complex organizations facing transformation.

"Where I see challenges, I also see opportunity. I work for a board and a group of ADs that want to be disruptive, innovative, and move this thing forward aggressively.”
— Brett Yormark (01:20)

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2. Federal Legislation: Will Congress Step In?

• Yormark on Congressional Oversight
  • Expresses optimism about passing the federal SCORE Act for national governance of college sports, noting unprecedented proximity to congressional action after extensive work on Capitol Hill.
  • Admits the bill isn’t perfect, but views it as necessary progress for the future of college athletics.

"I'm very bullish on the SCORE Act... It's the closest we've ever been, and I have to be optimistic. It's not perfect, but it's progress and we need progress.”
— Brett Yormark (02:52)

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3. The College Sports Council (CSC) and NIL Enforcement

• Skepticism, Progress, and Enforcement
  • Addresses reservations coaches have regarding the new NIL/CSC structure, but lauds Brian Seely (new CSC CEO) as the right leader for this emergent system.
  • CSC is actively hiring (soon a head of investigations), has processed over 9,000 NIL deals worth $63 million, and denied about 450 deals for rule violations.
  • Asserts that careful deal scrutiny is intentional, not a flaw, especially for any deal that hints at "pay for play."
  • Yormark believes continued progress and proper enforcement is possible once all participation agreements are signed.

"Those that talk about the time it's taking to clear deals— that's not a glitch, that's a feature. Anything that smells of pay for play is being scrutinized at the highest levels, and it should.”
— Brett Yormark (05:38)

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4. Tournament Expansion: NCAA vs. College Football Playoff

Which Would Yormark Expand First?

• Prioritizing CFP Expansion
  • Prefers expanding the CFP, citing increased “access” as vital—only 12 out of 136 FBS teams make playoffs under the current format.
  • Advocates a 16-team format (with a 5+11 structure), especially as parity increases among schools.
  • Sees playoff expansion as a way to amplify opportunity for the Big 12 and teams previously outside elite circles.

"Access would certainly benefit a conference like the Big 12 where there's great parity from top to bottom. I love the 12-team format... But I'm open and bullish on modest expansion for the NCAA Tournament.”
— Brett Yormark (07:16, 08:26)

What Will Happen First—March Madness or CFP Expansion?

• Yormark Predicts March Madness Expansion First
  • Believes NCAA Tournament expansion will arrive before changes to the College Football Playoff, largely because the CFP has not engaged in deeper discussions and awaits a trigger date (Dec 1) for decisions on 2026–27.
  • Expects the 12-team CFP format to persist for at least two more cycles (2026, 2027).

_"March Madness for sure."
— Brett Yormark, on which will expand first (09:33)

“We need to make a decision on ‘26, ‘27 by December 1st… I don't see us making any changes between now and then. So any discussion… would probably affect the ‘27, ‘28 season.”
— Brett Yormark (09:47)

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5. Big 12 Basketball: Branding, Partnerships, and International Growth

• Big 12 Profile and Distribution
  • Declares Big 12 the “#1 men’s basketball conference in America” (and, jokingly, “second only to the NBA”).
  • Six teams in preseason Top 25, with added depth not even accounting for Baylor.
  • Most widely distributed men’s basketball conference due to TV partnerships (including CBS).
  • International expansion is a major initiative, with games scheduled in Paris, London, and Dublin.
  • Highlights fresh commercial partnerships—continued deals with Phillips 66, and new ones with PayPal, Allstate, and others.

_"We're the number one men's basketball conference in America. In fact, I always tell people that we're the second-best league in the country behind the NBA."
— Brett Yormark (10:40)

"The international marketplace is certainly something that we're exploring... basketball plays a real catalyst there, because it's obviously a lot easier to use basketball as a catalyst for international expansion than football.”
— Brett Yormark (11:29)

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6. Big 12 Positioning in the NIL & Transfer Portal Era

• Basketball-Centric Conference
  • Acknowledges football’s financial pull, but argues basketball is the Big 12’s “heart.”
  • School presidents and admins support investment in basketball for its institutional, community, and branding benefits.
  • Cites success both recruiting high school and portal talent—eight of last year’s top 20 high school players landed in the Big 12.
  • Predicts at least eight teams in the NCAA Tournament due to depth, investment, and branding.

“At the heart of this conference, it’s basketball... They all understand there’s a direct correlation between investment and performance... I’m very confident they’ll continue to compete at a very high level.”
— Brett Yormark (13:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Challenge of Leading a Major Conference:
  "The national issues are real and we're spending a lot of time on them."
  — Brett Yormark (01:21)

• March Madness Expansion Prediction:
  _"March Madness for sure."
  — Brett Yormark (09:33)

• On Big 12’s Identity:
  "We're the number one men's basketball conference in America... second best league in the country behind the NBA.”
  — Brett Yormark (10:40)

• On NIL and the Transfer Portal:
  "Anything that smells of pay for play is being scrutinized at the highest levels, and it should."
  — Brett Yormark (05:38)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:15 – 01:20 — Introduction and initial thoughts on Kansas City/Big 12 Media Day
• 01:21 – 02:51 — What it’s like week-to-week as a commissioner amidst national change
• 02:51 – 03:38 — Prospects for Congressional oversight (SCORE Act)
• 03:38 – 06:44 — NIL and CSC: Building trust and new enforcement structures
• 07:10 – 09:22 — Expansion priorities: CFP vs. NCAA Tournament, Yormark’s preference and rationale
• 09:22 – 10:18 — Likelihood and timing of tournament expansions
• 10:40 – 12:59 — Big 12’s basketball dominance, commercial and international growth
• 12:59 – 15:16 — Financial/competitive landscape for Big 12 basketball in the NIL era

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Conclusion

Brett Yormark offers a forward-thinking, assertive vision for both the Big 12 and college athletics at large, balancing optimism about reforms and expansions with a realistic appraisal of ongoing challenges. He signals March Madness expansion is likely to precede College Football Playoff changes, champions the Big 12’s basketball prowess, and underscores the importance of national and international brand-building, all while highlighting the need for robust, enforceable NIL governance.

Listeners leave with a detailed, timely understanding of where the power players in college sports see the future headed, directly from one of its most ambitious commissioners.

Transcript

[A]

Pleased and honored to be joined by the Commissioner of Big 12, Brett Yormar, making his Eye on College Basketball podcast debut. Thank you for joining us and thanks for having us here at Big 12 Media. We were just talking. Yeah, we were just talking before we got going. Just an awesome, awesome setup in Kansas City. You know, Big 12 fans that come to the tournament every year, they know what the city is and what this building can be, but it's your whole operation here at Brett is really impressive.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. We're trying to continue to elevate them by anything we do. I've been at it now for three years. I think we're catching our stride, if you will. Kansas City is a wonderful place. Our tournaments are. It's their super bowl every year. So they really embrace us. The whole city does, in fact. So we're glad to be back for media days, and thanks for being here with us.

[A]

Big picture question, what's it like to be a conference commissioner at this.

[B]

In.

[A]

College athletics when everything seems to be changing practically by the month? So both, you know, in the viewpoint of basketball, but obviously there's so much with football and unanswered questions about the future format of the cfp. But what's it like to hold your job on a week by week basis right now? I know it's a big question, but let us in.

[B]

It's a great question. And I love being the commissioner of the Big 12. This role was a little foreign to me until I took the job. And I've been learning a lot in my first three years. But I break it down in really two parts. There are national issues that I have to deal with, and I'm partnering obviously with the power four commissioners on addressing many of those issues, whether it's the CFP or new governance or legislation when you're down the hill, or enforcement when you think about the csc. And then there are topics that, you know, I have to address that are exclusive, if you will, to the Big 12, which for me is really the business of the Big 12. It's a lot to manage, but I was doing things similar to this, obviously, when I was the CEO of the Brooklyn Nets. And where I see challenges, I also see opportunity. And I'm fortunate enough to work for a board and a group of ads that want to be disruptive, that want to be innovative, and that want to move this thing forward aggressively, which really helps me in my job so that I can execute at the highest levels. But the national issues are real and. And we're spending A lot of time on them.

[A]

How? I mean, no one knows the answers to some of these questions, but I want your opinion on it. Like, do you think we are going to have actual congressional oversight that is implemented by the end of the decade? Yes or no? Do you think we actually get to that point? Because there's a lot of skepticism and cynicism that we will not get to that, given the nature of not just college athletics, but how things work in D.C. i do.

[B]

I do believe I'm very hopeful. I've spent more time on the Hill than I want to, and that's relatively new to me. But I'm very bullish. Bullish on the Score Act. I do think once the government shutdown gets resolved, they'll bring the Score act, you know, the bill, if you will, to the floor. I think it gets. I think it passes and then it moves on to the Senate. It's the closest we've ever been, and I have to be optimistic. It's not perfect, the Score act, but it's progress and we need progress right now. And once we can get that passed through the House and hopefully the Senate, we can also then ultimately address some of the other challenges that we face in collegiate athletics. But I think it's a first big step for us, and I'm very bullish.

[A]

Okay, now let's talk the CSC obviously still in its infancy. I did a couple of stories over the summer for CBS about a lot of curiosity on how this is going to work. Frankly, talked with coaches in your league, head and assistant coaches who have some skepticism over it. They want it to work. They want to have some sort of real structure here. But a lot of, a lot of folks are kind of wondering if this is just going to ultimately fail via lawsuits or rule breakers or what have you. Where do you come down on what the CSC as it is now and how you think it will be implemented? When it comes to approval or denial of certain nil deals, obviously, when it comes to enforcement, so much of that falls outside the NSA parameters into the csc. So are you optimistic that this new structure that you had to agree to, your ads had to agree to, like everyone had to opt in on this. It's interesting from my end, Brett, that that or this arrangement has been agreed to, but there's still a lot of people. Maybe they're just conditioned over decades of the NCAA to say, check with me in like two, three years. I'm still not sure this is going to work. Where do you land on this?

[B]

A lot of Naysayers in our industry for sure. Yes. First of all, let's start with Brian Seely. I think he was the right person. I know he's the right person at the right time for this role. He's the CEO of the csc. It's a bit of a startup. I mean, he's been on the job 100 days, and I think he's done a really good job in his first 100 days. He's building out infrastructure. He's looking to enforce rules, the rules of settlement. He has made some great progress. He's about to hire a head of investigations, which I think is critically important. We do need the participation agreement to be signed and executed, which effectively gets anyone that is doing rev share on board and obviously signing up for the rules of engagement. So they know the rules and the penalties that go with it. So I'm very bullish on the cse. And again, it's not perfect. It's progress. The clearinghouse is working. I don't have the recent numbers, but those that were stated recently, over 9,000 deals have been cleared. Those deals valued at about $63 million. There was about 450 deals that were not cleared for various reasons. So it's working. I mean, those that talk about, you know, the time it's taking to clear deals, that's not a glitch, that's a feature. Anything that smells of play or pay for play is being scrutinized at the highest levels, and it should. So I'm optimistic that over time, it's going to be what we all want. Brian has hosted calls with our coaches. He's outlined, you know, for them, you know, what's going on today and what his plans are for the future. I think. I think they're all optimistic. Obviously, until we can continue to enforce the right ways, I'm sure there'll be some naysayers out there, but I'm optimistic that the participation agreements are going to be executed sooner than later, and that will enable Brian and his team to truly enforce at the highest levels.

[A]

Okay. For those watching and listening, just know that this particular topic that Brett's speaking to is really one of the most highest points of intrigue across college basketball and college football. I give you the power to change one and only one. You cannot do both. You. You can only change one. Do you expand the College Football Playoff or do you expand the NCAA Tournament? You only get one. Brett, which one would you do? Which one has a higher priority for you as the commissioner of the Big 12?

[B]

Expand College football Playoffs.

[A]

Okay, and why is that?

[B]

I think access is a good thing. You think about 136 FBS football teams and only 12 get in right now. That's a very small percentage. And I think access would certainly benefit a conference like the Big 12 where there's great parity from top to bottom. I love the 12 team format. I thought it worked really well last year. There was a lot of drama. The right teams got in and those that got in had to earn it on the field. I've been pretty outspoken about a 511 format, which I still like, until someone shows me something different. Conference champions get in, you know, with the 5 and then obviously 11 at large. But I think the expanded field would certainly help a conference like ours, if not immediately, certainly long term. Our conference is one that's investing at the highest levels. Parity is playing out through all of college football right now. Look at the top, the preseason top 25. There are multiple teams that started there that are no longer in that top 25. And schools that really weren't considered, you know, elite are now making their ways into the top 25. So a lot of parity and by the way, settlement in theory was. Was all about creating a level playing field and enabling some of those schools that weren't competing to truly invest where their performance would be indicative of that investment. And it's playing out this year in the. In college football for sure. So I like a 16 team format. I know you said I have to only choose one and I am choosing college football. But I am open and bullish on modest expansion for the NCAA tournament. And I know it's not easy for a lot of people that love March Madness. And it is a special moment and it's one of the greatest properties in all of sports. But I think modest expansion, that doesn't compromise the economics is good. And candidly, it's good for the conference like the Big 12, where we have so much depth. And when you get the data, we would benefit from that modest expansion. A conference like ours, as would some of the other Power 4 conferences, but specifically the big would benefit, in your.

[A]

Opinion, which of these two events the college football play at the end, the NCAA tournament. Which two of these is going to get a resolution on expansion or no expansion? Which one is going to come first from where things stand in your eyes?

[B]

March Madness for sure.

[A]

Okay, so College Football Playoff is going to. That's something that it's going to take.

[B]

A little bit more time. I mean, candidly, we haven't had a lot of in depth conversation of late on any format beyond what currently exists.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we need to make a decision on 26, 27 by December 1st. You know that that happens to be a trigger date, and I don't see us making any changes between now and then. So any discussion that we do have would probably affect the 27, 28 football season.

[A]

Right. So to be clear, for the College Football Playoff, the expectation is at least the next two will be under the current 12 team.

[B]

That's my expectation. That's my expectation.

[A]

Understood. Let's dive into the basketball real quick before we cut you loose. A very, very busy day for Brett here at Big 12 media day. Broadly speaking, as it pertains to basketball and deals. Are there any particular partnerships or things that you're working on that. That the league is looking to just, you know, expand its profile and continue to, you know, just have a. Have a big place within the sport of college basketball?

[B]

Well, first of all, I'm going to start off by saying we're the number one men's basketball conference in America. And in fact, I always tell. I tell people that, listen, that we're the second best league in. In the country behind the NBA. And I'm very bullish on our. On our conference for all the right reasons. We got six in the top 25 preseason, and that doesn't even include Baylor, if you can imagine that. And we've got a lot of teams on the cusp. That being said, I think the growth of this conference starts with our five media members. We're the most distributed men's basketball conference in America right now. When you think about our media partners, CBS being one, and we just love you being part of the Big 12 family, that means more promotion, more marketing around our student athletes, our schools, and our conference, which is fantastic for us. I think the international marketplace is certainly something that, you know, we're exploring. Our Baylor women's team will kick off the season there against Duke in Paris. I just got back, in fact, from London last week where we're going to be playing a football game at Wembley, and I was in Dublin in August for a conference football game. So the international growth for us is critically important, and I think basketball plays a real catalyst there because it's obviously a lot easier to use basketball as a catalyst for international expansion than football. How we continue to grow our tournaments here in Kansas City also is something that we're working on. Men's is fantastic. Women's provides a lot of upside. We're getting incredible support from this community to continue to grow what we do here AT T Mobile and in the marketplace around our tournaments. So that, that's certainly something that I'm excited about. The further commercialization of how we are in the market, developing strategic partners with the likes of a PayPal, Allstate New Year and quite a few others that we're going to announce is certainly something high on my radar. And yesterday I announced the continuation of our Phillips 66 partnership, which is one of the longest partnerships in all of collegiate athletics and they've been with us for over 35 years. So excited about where this conference is going. Just generally, there's never been a better time for the Big 12 than right now. And I think there's a lot of upside. And I work with a great board, great ads that want to be disruptive, that want to grow the conference, the brand, the profile, the business. So it's an exciting time for us.

[A]

Yeah. Last question for you. When just to dive in a little bit more to that. You got tremendous teams. You know, Houston's my preseason number one. You go down Kansas, Arizona, keep going down the list, Iowa State, Texas Tech, byu, Baylor, plenty. You're going to. I would be shocked if you don't have at least eight teams in the tournament when we get to, when we get to March. When it comes to being competitive financially for the players in the portal, so much talk often gets directed at the SEC in the Big Ten. But you and I both know, like you know, in talking to the coaches and know how the mechanisms of the sport work, very, very competitive programs here. But as commissioner, what is your role? What kind of conversations do you have to ensure that in specifically let's talk basketball here because that's, that's my bailiwick to keep them, I would say not even just competitive, but cutting edge and trying to look around the corners to say we're not going to get caught flat foot and we're going to make sure that our players in our programs are equipped to be as competitive and ready to win in the marketplace, in the transfer portal as any smart conference.

[B]

Great question. I will tell you that we all know that football drives the economics. But at the heart of this conference, it's basketball. And we play an elite brand of basketball. Our administrators, starting with our presidents, understand the importance of basketball. They understand the importance of collegiate athletics. It sits at the front porch of all these universities. It drives everything in the ecosystem when you think about community engagement, philanthropy, enrollment profile, etc. Etc. And you know, for us, basketball really matters. So they all of our schools, they're all investing at the highest levels and they understand that there's a direct correlation between investment and performance and they want to perform at the highest levels. So I think our schools are well positioned for the future. If you think about the top high school players in the country last year, we've eight of the top 20 now. Yes, we're destinational as a basketball conference, but they're attracted to this conference not only because of the economics, because of the brands, the profile and how we think about basketball. We were very successful in the portal also many of our clubs. So so I'm excited about how our schools can compete and I'm very confident they'll continue to compete at a very high level.

[A]

Thanks for joining us on cbs. Brett Yormark, tremendous. The one thing you didn't mention that I'm going to mention, the only higher major league in the country you will play every day of the week this season. So Big 12 will be as findable as any league. Brett, thanks for joining us.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

You can be anything this time.

[A]

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