← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
Candid Coaches: Who’ll be the best team and player in 2025-26? How much 💰is the right amount for basketball programs + coaching turmoil at mid-majors
01:07:19
Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:00]
A
This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. Hey there, it's Gary Parish from the I Own college basketball podcast. Summer was great, but it's just about over. September is here and that'll get us to fall, which is a time of the year where temperatures can start to drop. At which point perhaps your focus and stamina isn't quite where it needs to be. As it pertains to your daily routine. That's where Liquid IV can come in. It can boost your hydration and energy. And it's so convenient. Easy to use. Just throw a packet in your gym bag, in your golf bag, your purse, your glove box, whenever you need it. Just tear, put, pour and enjoy. Want to avoid that afternoon crash? Don't have time to lay down and rest? Let the new energy multiplier work for you. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. Don't let the grind drain you. Ditch the glitch with zero sugar and zero crash from Liquid IV. Tear poor live more. Go to Liquid IV.com and get 20% off your first order with code I at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with Code I E Y E@liquid I.com thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check. Whoa. When did I get here?
- [01:05]
B
What do you mean?
- [01:05]
A
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future. It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup.
- [01:14]
B
Here's your check for that great offer. It is the future.
- [01:17]
A
It's it's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind. It's all good. Happens all the time.
- [01:24]
B
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana.
- [01:28]
A
Pick up.
- [01:29]
B
Times may vary and fees may apply.
- [01:30]
A
Foreign Parish welcome back CBS Sports. I own college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting dodo birds and leaky black. Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies. And if you haven't yet, subscribe to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel. It would be awesome if you did that while you're here. Let's get into it. As I hope you know, we have launched our annual Candid Coaches series over@cbssports.com if you're unfamiliar, here's the deal. Each year what we do is we ask roughly 100 college basketball coaches a series of questions. We grant anonymity in exchange for honesty and then we collect the Answers, we publish them. And we've had three questions so far this week. Let's take them in the order that they were published. Norlander, you handled question number one. Which team will be the best in college basketball this season? Tell the folks what the coaches told us.
- [02:41]
B
Well, the coaches came down to two above all others, which is not terribly surprising. But the exact breakdown was this. The Purdue Boilermakers won by 4 percentage points. Purdue got 32% of the vote. Then Houston got 28% of the vote. Then there's a drop, a relatively big drop. Then Duke and St. John's each received 8% of the vote. And then UConn in Florida, Florida coming off a national championship and obviously UConn the most recent national title winner. Pre Gators. They each received 5% of the vote. And then Michigan, BYU, Louisville and Kentucky were the other schools to receive multiple, I think multiple votes. But clearly Purdue 1, Houston not very far behind it too. Then you got a whole new tier with Duke, St. John's Yukon, Florida. That's the breakdown. We'll dive into it. I've got some recent history with the coaches have done. We'll save that for a second. Your thoughts on the on the voting return with the Boilermakers edging out the Cougars?
- [03:43]
A
I do not. After being like 48 to 56% boilermaker for each of the past two years, I do not have Purdue number one. But I'm not interested in arguing against. Makes total sense. They bring back two all Americans. That's a great place to start. One in the back court, one in the front court. Impactful transfer, presumably from South Dakota State. Fletcher Lawyer also back for your starter. And then they enrolled an Israeli guard, Omar Meyer, who by all accounts is is special as well and has a chance to be a one and done college basketball player who launches into the 2026 NBA Draft. So they're loaded. I mean whatever you need to win a national championship, I think they've got it. The requisite talent, a top shelf coach experience. Maybe they're not loaded with lottery picks the way some national championship contenders sometimes are, but I think clearly that this is a national championship contender and perhaps the best one that Matt Painter has ever had.
- [04:54]
B
Yeah, and on top of that, in the past four seasons, I think recent history suggests why they also got this amount of votes. Purdue has averaged 29. Exactly 29 wins the past four seasons, of course made the national championship game. Got knocked off by UConn in the Natty back in 24, coming off a season in which they were 4 seed, made the Sweet 16 won 24 games last season, returning a lot, not surprised by it. And my guess going in, I sometimes like to know what we're going to ask and sometimes try and guess what the actual result is going to be. I would have guessed Houston won it. Houston's win total in the past four seasons even is even stronger than Purdue overall. But Purdue having, you know, a point guard, that is considered extremely good, we'll get to that in about 10, 15 minutes or so. Not surprising at all. Recent history on this so we, we have asked this question every year. Candid coaches goes back to 2012 with the exception of 2020 when we didn't do it because it was Covid and we didn't even go out on the road and there just wasn't much reason to do it in that year. But we've done it every other year with the exception of that one. Oftentimes the coaches don't get it right. Just recent history, period. The past two years. So in 24 and 23, Kansas was the pick and to no surprise. Like the coaches, I think there's someone informed by what they know and there's someone informed frankly, by off season rankings. Coaches are on Twitter, they're, they're seeing parishes and other folks rankings that get updated frequently as the portal goes along as we get into the preseason and all that. So I think it's fair and frankly factual to say that a lot of coaches are at least informed by that. I definitely, every single year that we ask this question, I kind of split up my time between it's usually half on the phone, half text, a couple of coaches do it over email. But when the coaches I'm talking to over the phone, there are just reliably, at least six, seven, eight of them that'll say like, all right, just give me a reminder, like, who do we think is going to be in like top 5 level? So even when doing that I'm tossing out teams, I typically try and do it where I'm showing like, okay, well these are some of the teams that Paris has that are near the top. But you know, pick whoever you want. So just keep that in mind as well. But Kansas, the past two years, that was an, that was back to back. In fact, yes, in 2023, after UConn won it all and then would go on to be the best team the ensuing season. UConn with seventh in the voting and candid coaches coming off the first national championship, obviously it was by far the best team that ensuing season in 2022 it was North Carolina, which is the preseason number one team. Carolina didn't even make the tournament, so that was the swing and a miss by coaches there. The last time that we had the team picked in the candid coaches survey that wound up rating as the best team was, was Gonzaga. Now, Gonzaga didn't win the national title, but in 2021, Gonzaga was the pick and Gu did go on to be the number one team at Ken Palm. Got a one seed, didn't make the final four, but ratings wise, the coaches did get, get that one correct. So just keep that in mind. You know, this is to a certain extent, a little bit, it's a little bit dart throwing GP so that's some recent history there. Houston at 28% of the vote makes plenty of sense to me. I only got one vote. I told Paris this over text when he was telling me the results. I only got one vote for St. John' so St. John's representation, this poll, I believe is, is a, is a function of Paris ranking them one and him getting in touch with coaches and coaches knowing who they're. Yeah, I might as well too. That's, that's my guess on it. That's all.
- [08:23]
A
Because here's what happens. I'll send like 50 text. And the way you explained it, we absolutely run into that. These coaches get these texts and they're like, so who's going to be the best team in College Basketball since GP's asking me, what does he have? St. John's all right, fine, I'll go with St. John's I do think that that happened because it was noticeable that I got more St. John's John's votes than you got, but they still ended up with 8% of the vote, which just feels low to me. Like, I, I know not everybody's a believer, but like, in terms of talent, I, I don't know that there's a, like, I don't want to say St. John's has the most talented roster in the country, but they've certainly got one of the most talented rosters in the country and they've got one of the best coaches in the country. Like one of the best rosters, one of the best coaches. Put them together. You should get good stuff.
- [09:15]
B
Yeah, I was, yeah, I, I was surprised I didn't get at least a couple more nods for St. John's but that also got dispersed around, you know, again, didn't finish in the top seven, but Kentucky, even Louisville, you know, byu, Michigan, you know, we got, I like seeing that we, we didn't end this. Having pulled just about 100 coaches and only having six schools get a nod. We got, you know, we got a full on 10 that got, that got multiple votes. In fact, even schools like Illinois and Texas Tech, I think I each got one there. I think the best in my opinion the best school that didn't get a vote, which is, I'm not saying I think that they will be the number one team or should be or not even necessarily top five team. But the best team that just didn't get a knot period, I think is Arizona. That would be my pick. I don't think either of us got a vote for Arizona. So if you're wondering who just missed out on, on getting a little a nod there, I'd go with the the Wildcats, Yukon and Florida each at 5% GP. I would have expected one or the other maybe to get a little bit higher than that. UConn has a case, I think a compelling case to be preseason top five as does, as does Florida. Any quick takeaways on on either of those schools? Obviously both of them made some pretty notable and noisy additions in the portal but also are bringing back pieces that stand the potentially with, you know, either caravan or solo ball. We'll see and then on Florida side and we'll see if it's, you know, hand logged in or whomever it winds up being in the, in the front court there with, with the Gators, who's going to be a first female American. Just your thoughts on on what the Gators were able to do?
- [10:49]
A
Well, I, I think, you know, Florida has a real chance to, to repeat as national champions the same way UConn repeated as national champions. It'd be wild if we went like decades without that happening and then it happened twice in such a, a small span of time. But that's on the table. You know, they replaced those guards with, with high level transfer portal guards and they were already loaded in the front court getting those guys to come back to school at UConn. I like the Huskies roster heading into this season more than I liked the roster heading into last season. Don't go look at preseason rankings from last year because that might contradict it, but I think we've talked about that enough. I was sort of trusting the UConn staff. They believed they had a team that was good enough to go back to back to back and I was sort of trust like I just sort of trusted into that. But once we saw it on the court, the team was clearly flawed from the jump. This roster Looks like it's capable of winning a national championship. So Florida could go back to back. UCOD could win three in a four year span. Both of those things are our storylines heading into the season.
- [12:04]
B
Yeah, no question. I think the top 7 vote gooders make a lot of sense. Just a real quick note on Houston. We haven't really talked about them too much. We're going to talk about them plenty More uncanny coaches as a series goes, goes along in general. But Kelvin Sampson returning, no use and coming back. And we've talked about the KUO obviously to shoot around on them. So we've, we've touched on them plenty. But just for the purposes of this quick, quick combo here, number of coaches just buying into the general idea that Kelvin Sampson will be as motivated if not more than ever this year. After coming so close last year, a couple coaches cited Tugler thinking that he could be the best defender in the sport this season. I think there could be something to that and just it's at this point Houston has reached the stage where until it doesn't prove to be quite literally and statistically one of the two best teams in the country, like got to give them the benefit of the doubt. So it stands to reason that they finished number two and a close number two to Purdue.
- [13:00]
A
Let's go to question number two with that one, we asked roughly 100 college coaches what percentage of their school's revenue sharing budget do they believe should go to the sport of men's basketball? I'll tell you what they told us. We'll do that next. But first let's get a get a word from our partner.
- [13:16]
B
Oh hey, love your shoes. If you're hearing this, this is your.
- [13:20]
A
Sign to try those on.
- [13:22]
B
Trust us, you can totally pull them off. In fact, try on every shoe here if you want.
- [13:27]
A
We won't stop you.
- [13:28]
B
In our house, you've got unlimited freedom to play. And hey, fall is the perfect season to do wear.
- [13:35]
A
Be whatever you want.
- [13:37]
B
And with tons of shoes that get.
- [13:38]
A
You at prices that get your budget, we'll give you something to brag about.
- [13:42]
B
So go ahead, try them on. Let us surprise you.
- [13:48]
A
It's Kelly Clarkson, here to talk all things Wayfair.
- [13:51]
B
The best place to buy furniture, decor.
- [13:53]
A
And anything else you can think of to create a home you absolutely love.
- [13:57]
B
I know when I shop with Wayfair, I find options for every style.
- [14:00]
A
Whether I'm feeling boho or farmhouse, modern, traditional French country, I can find exactly what I need for my home and more.
- [14:08]
B
No matter your space, style or budget.
- [14:10]
A
Shopwayfair.Com to make your home way more you.
- [14:14]
B
Wayfair. Every style, every home. I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back, and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL. I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie. Broke the Internet last year and I think this season's lineup is even cooler. And so does my wife, who keeps stealing all my hoodies. Stay fit for the season. And Abercrombie's newest arrivals shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app online and in store.
- [14:45]
A
Question number two in our Candid Coaches series, this is what we asked. We asked roughly 100 college basketball coaches, what percentage of the revenue sharing budget at your school do you believe should go to the sport of men's basketball? We had to separate the answers into two categories. One for coaches at schools with FBS football programs and another for coaches at schools without FBS football programs. Coaches at schools with FBS football programs. So if the terminology is weird to you, just think of like Clemson, Alabama, sec, Big Ten, that type of thing. They basically told us they expect somewhere between 20 and, and 30%. Some got a little higher, some a little lower. But that seemed to be the sweet spot, 20 to 30% when we started talking to coaches who work at schools without FBS football. So think of like big E schools, A10 schools. They told us they're expecting to get roughly 90%, in some cases even higher of their school's revenue sharing budget. Now, to be clear, at an SEC school or a Big ten school, that's going to be for the basketball coaches, they are 20 to 30% of $20.5 million. At some of these other schools, it could be 90%, but not necessarily of $20.5 million. It could be 90% of, of 10 or 90% of 5, 90% of 3. You know, not everybody has this, that everybody's going all the way up to, to 20.5. So that's the gist of it. Let me ask you, I'll start you with that. Did you hear anything that surprised you?
- [16:17]
B
The only things that surprised me were how frank. Again, they're given the coaches are given the benefit of being on background here and not being identified. So a few coaches essentially saying I need to root against my football team or putting it plainly, you know, if our football team is getting 80% or 60%, it's not going to matter. In my opinion, in talking to people in our athletic department now, they're going to get that money, but it's not going to affect what the record is on the, on the field. I probably got that response, you know, from four or five coaches there. I was a little surprised by how rational most coaches were. Now I did also in talking to a lot of these coaches, I said, listen, put yourself. Before I ask you this, I'm going to ask you to put yourself in the shoes of your athletic director. So I'm giving you the responsibility of running an athletic department to just try and curb some of the natural bias that college basketball coaches would have. So I think that also helped as well. But I thought the conversation, this, this prompted as much response as maybe any question we had on my end this year. Specifically. I'll give you a couple quick data points with the coaches we talked to that are at the high major level that have power for football. Essentially the most common response is 20%. 20% of 20.5 million equates to their program having $4.1 million in revenue sharing. Broadly speaking, I think that's a fair number. I think that's talking to a lot of coaches. Like 4 million needs to be the absolute floor. They feel like the floor. A lot of coaches that aren't, you know, at or above 6 feel inherently uncomfortable at this moment there and then for schools that don't have Power 4 or high level FBS football, you get into a situation where like, you know, you got Mac coaches where they've got FBS football, like they've got to pay. So it's, it's kind of in between the A10 and the SEC model that the most common answer there was 50% which was lower than I was expecting. But again, you need to account for the fact that there are non high major coaches at institutions that still have to pay a lot to football, albeit at a tier or two down from the, from the high major level there. This is the number one topic in the sport over the past three or four months. It's why we included it in the survey. Coaches are wanting to know how much their competitors have and, and many cases, five or six cases GP when I was talking to some of these, either head coaches or assistants at that high major level still don't actually have. At least this is what they told me. I don't see why they would be lying about it because it's not a thing that you'd want to lie about. They do not know right now. Some of these, some of these questions are now three weeks old that I've had these conversations with or a month old, but they didn't know how much revenue sharing they were going to have for 26, 27 for the upcoming season. They had a general idea, but to use a hypothetical number, they couldn't tell me if it was going to be 2.7 million, 3, 3.3 or 3.9 million. And the difference in 4 or 6 or $800,000 actually means a whole hell of a lot when you're trying to account for future roster building. So I wrote a story on this earlier this month. It is by. It just. It's not even close. This is the thing that coaches are consistently worried about talking about. Brad Underwood had a big interview that, that, that he met with the media about a lot of this stuff in general. You're going to hear even more about it as coaches have more media availability heading into the preseason. So by encourage our readers and listeners and viewers to go and actually GP had the byline on this go. It'll be linked in the pod description. But go and read this in full, read the quotes to really get an understanding of where coaches land on this. Because it is an ever evolving story. And where things stand right now in September of 25, with how much money programs do or don't have versus what will be their reality next April or May is a high, high, high anxiety point.
- [20:12]
A
It's such a goofy system. It's just goofy.
- [20:15]
B
Like.
- [20:17]
A
I was going to say, there's better way, there's a better way to do this. There's like a million better ways to do this than the way that they're actually doing it. Which is why this system, if we're still talking in five years, this is the same system, will not be in place. It'll be something new because it's just littered with issues, the biggest of which is that it's going to bring high stakes under the table cheating back to the sport. But in the short term, it's exactly as you explained. Basketball coaches right now are showing up to football games on Saturdays and rooting against their football team. Because the way you have to think about this is it's a pot of money clearly defined, and every dollar that goes here is a dollar that can't go here. And I've had multiple coaches over the past few months say to me, the last thing I need is my football coach going out and winning 10 games in a conference championship, because they already want to give him all the money. And they might if, if he does that, like prominent basketball programs, like Big Ten programs, SEC programs. And I have talked to coaches who right now think they're Broken. They like, they're like, man, I had all the money in the world a year ago, two years ago. Now I have. I don't, I have. I don't have as much as I need. I don't have as much as other people in my league or I don't even know what I'm, what I'm going to have. And it could be dictated by the success of our football program over the next couple of months. It's just a goofy system. One coach suggested we use the quote that the better, a better way to do this would just have, instead of having a salary cap for athletic departments, have a salary cap for individual sports. To be clear, I don't want any caps on anything unless it's collectively bargained and agreed upon, blah, blah, blah. But just, it would be more sensible if you had a football salary cap and a basketball salary cap and a women's basketball salary cap and a women's soccer salary, however you want to do it and make the numbers whatever they. They are. But we are about to head into a season where the Kentucky basketball coach and the Alabama basketball coach, both of whom are really good and capable of guiding their programs to Final Fours and national titles. Theoretically, they might not be operating with the same.
- [22:53]
B
There's no theoretically about it. They are not there. Millions apart.
- [22:56]
A
Right? That's, that's, that's goofy. That's goofy.
- [22:58]
B
Well, that, that's. But that's an insta. Okay. That's an institutional decision, and it is.
- [23:04]
A
The institution shouldn't be having to make those decisions. To bring it up like this happens.
- [23:08]
B
Because this is a football. Like this is all because of football. So basketball, like a lot of this is not new in the, in the regard that football has been driving the bus on all of this stuff in college athletics and really, even in a way that transcends college athletics for 10, 15 years now, when you look at what realignment has done and just the, the hundreds of millions that have been pushed in different directions as a result of that. So this is, this is. I know you know, this parish, but just for our listeners. Yeah, well, this is all happening because football decided it. So the system won't exist in five years. I'm more inclined to agree with you than not. But I'm telling you, football is going to continue to be the one that determines all of this stuff. And I'm, I will be interested to see what switch gets flipped, what lever gets pulled to change the current arrangement, because what I do not think will happen, I could be wrong. But What I don't think will happen is what some coaches are saying will happen, and that is that we're not going to get to two years from now and allow an Atlantic 10 program to have more money to spend on its men's basketball program than an SEC program. That's just ridiculous. Maybe it is. But again, it's not the 8 10s program's fault that it doesn't get all the benefits of having a football program. And so this is one of the consequences of those decisions that are driven by football. That's all.
- [24:28]
A
It's far, far, far from perfect.
- [24:30]
B
But. And there's a quote in there. I won't read it here. Go read the story. It came from a coach I talked to at a program that doesn't have football. And he was cracking up, talking to me about how much paranoia there is among some of these coaches. And he's like, man, these schools have had this. I'm going to paraphrase them. These schools have had the edge forever, man, forever. And so now they're a little bit behind, and now the world is ending here. The quote I gave you is about a fourth of how long that quote was in general. I had to cut it off at one point, but. But he, he had very good points. It's not their problem that, that football decided to do this. And now the schools that have football got to figure out how much they're going to a lot to basketball. And so that's why we're here and that's why we did. The question.
- [25:07]
A
I got it. The issue is going to become the schools, a lot of the schools that have big time football and that had the power to influence us going down this path. They're going to end up with really frustrated basketball coaches who are getting out bid by A10 schools and big E schools. And that is going to be the thing that. That triggers the lever to be pulled. Obviously, football runs everything. That's nothing new. It ran conference realignment for decades. None of this is new. What is new and what I'm specifically talking about is this. For years, no matter the importance of football and men's basketball, all the men's basketball programs theoretically were playing by the same set of rules. You can't give anything. Now, we know they did, but that was. The rules were clear. You cannot provide money, extra benefits, so on and so forth. Then briefly, we got rid of all that and it was basically a free for all. You could do whatever you want. Sign P.J. hagerty a $4 million nil deal. We don't care. Do whatever you want to do. And that was chaotic. But, you know, at least we understood why PJ Hagerty was playing at Memphis and then why he transferred to Kansas State. And we, the answers to the questions were, were right there in front of us now. And so again, you could do whatever you, you were capable of doing. If you could raise the money, you could spend the money. If you could get access to the money, you could spend it. Now we're in a situation where quite literally different coaches are, are, are, are fighting with different weapons by, by the rules. There are going to be coaches who have, let's just say, $8 million to spend and other coaches who have $2 million to spend. And in some cases, it might not be that dramatic, but these coaches are going to be in the exact same league, competing for the exact same conference championship, but they will be shopping with wildly different salary caps relative to their individual sports. That is goofy. And that will not last.
- [27:09]
B
Yeah, and it's going to lead to some incredible stories and, and some real fallout in the weeks and months and maybe years to come. We'll see. You want to move on to question number three?
- [27:19]
A
Yeah, let's do it. Question number three. We asked roughly 100 college coaches who they expect to be college basketball's best player this season. You handled this one. It published on Thursday morning. No surprise that Braden Smith was the winner. He got 51 of the vote. Was that a surprise? Because as you noted in the column, we've been doing this since 2012. Oh, time flies. We've asked this question nearly every year and nobody has ever gotten more than 50% of the vote. Braden Smith got 51% in this year's Candid Coaches series. Did that surprise you?
- [27:59]
B
It did, and I'm going to tell you why. But first, let's take a quick break. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never.
- [28:23]
A
Miss a meme or milestone.
- [28:25]
B
All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [28:30]
A
Learn more@WhatsApp.com what's up, everyone? It's the counselor of Cash Siyan Ajad from the Early Edge, a daily sports betting show powered by Sportsline and part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network. If you're looking for the best bets, picks and analysis for the day in sports we're your one stop shop. We're locked in every day with NFL bets and player props, college football, football picks, and so much more. Download and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found. Subscribe to the SportsLine YouTube page to watch us live at 10am Eastern Time every weekday. Make sure to turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single pick all season long. Good luck.
- [29:04]
B
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling.
- [29:10]
A
And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person, on.
- [29:18]
B
The phone or using the award winning.
- [29:20]
A
App, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, okay. Let's get rich. Let's just keep. Let's keep.
- [29:32]
B
In the rundown, you had a break.
- [29:34]
A
After question two, so I know, but then I decided maybe we'd do a break after question three. But whatever, we'll do another one. Let's get that information. Hey, hey. Let's make all the money we can make.
- [29:43]
B
That sounds good. That sounds good. All right. So I definitely thought. I assume you did as well. This question. Braden Smith would win it. I thought he would win it.
- [29:52]
A
You agree going in, not knowing the obvious answer. He is the only first team all American who returned to college. He's the reigning Big Ten player of the year. He's on a preseason top five team. I don't know if he'll hold the trophy at the end of the season, but he deserves this label right now. Yes.
- [30:07]
B
Okay. So I'm not surprised by that. I was very surprised by the margin. One caveat on this needs to be made clear. Purdue, you can actually boast on this two times over because we did. We. Again, candid coaches goes back to the summer of 2012, the only year we didn't ask this question when we did the poll was in 2023 because we decided. Zach, by asking this question. Zach Eddy was returning to college basketball after having won national player of the year. And. And at minimum, he was going to get 80% of the vote. At minimum, he might have gotten 90, 90, 90 or 95. We just thought it would been a farce to ask the question. So Purdue, in effect has had the two players that have brought back, you know, the most obvious biggest returns ever. Ed was so dominant, we didn't even do it. And here Smith breaks the record Previous record held. Cassius Winston in 2019 got 50% of the vote. I've got the. Before we get into this year's returns, here's the history I have every single year we've done this. And then if. Whether or not that player won national player of the year, we are going to go oldest to newest. Okay, 2012, actually, trivia time. Just a quick one. This will be the only one. Trivia time. Although it might have been the story, so you might have seen it, so you might have know it. 2012, who won it?
- [31:19]
A
Did you look, I mean, I. I know that's the Anthony Davis year, right?
- [31:22]
B
No Anthony Davis. We'd have asked in 2011 if we did the poll. Okay, so this is after. So yeah. Is it 2012. It was the 2012. 13 season in advance of that.
- [31:32]
A
Yeah. I don't know.
- [31:33]
B
Cody Zeller, 35 of the vote was the first winner of of us ever doing it. But Trey Burke, my national player of the year that year. 2013, Marcus Smart won with 34%. Doug McDermott was the national player of the year. 2014 came the first time they actually matched up. The preseason pick was the endpoint. Frank KAMINSKY with only 17% of the vote, but it was the most. And Kaminsky won. In 2015, it was Chris Dunnett, Providence 26%. That that year, Buddy Heald and Denzel Valentine Split the vote. 2016, Grayson Allen won with the fewest percentage points of any. It was the most split ever. He had 13 of the vote. Frank Mason, one national player that year. 2017. Michael Porter Jr. Of Missouri, incoming freshman, got 20 of the vote. Jalen Brunson and the national champion Villanova Wildcats won that year. 2018, a Duke player got the votes and a Duke player, one national player of the Year, but it wasn't the same guy. RJ Barrett, 16 of the vote. Got it. Zion Williamson, of course, one National Player of the Year that forthcoming season. 2019, I just mentioned it. Winston at Michigan State got 50% but Obi Toppan won National Player of the Year. 2021. Drew Timmy won it. But Oscar Sheba won national player of the year 2022. Drew Timmy won in back to back years and Zach Edie then won national player of the Year and then the past two years and when it would have been accurate, Edie would have won it. If we did the question. He won national player of the Year and a year ago, Cooper flagg won with 36 of the vote and then he won national player of the Year. So only has the coach's pick gone on to be the national player of the Year. Flag ed. If we had done it and then Kaminsky back in 14. Yes or no, will Braden Smith be the fourth GP?
- [33:11]
A
Yes. Unless one of the freshmen just take off. It will be Braden Smith or a freshman.
- [33:16]
B
Okay.
- [33:17]
A
Because, like, you just don't know until you see it with these freshmen. Like, AJ DeBancer could come out and. And be Kevin Durant. Right. Darren Peterson could come out and be Kobe Bryant. I mean, you. You don't know. Exactly. We know those guys are special talents. Sometimes they're just good college basketball players. Other times they just pop. And you can tell it like, opening night. Go back and look at Michael Beasley's opening night. It was like, oh, God. He, like, went for like 30 and 20 or something crazy like that. It was like, okay, here we go. And then. And then, you know, he just consistently did that. So I do not. I don't believe it'll be any other. It'll be. It'll be Braden Smith or. Or a freshman. And I would lean toward Braden Smith, if only because, like, there's just no way. He's not going to be good. He's going to be really good on a really good team. Like, that's the base. There's, like. There's only injuries could. Could make him anything other than a awesome player on an awesome team.
- [34:17]
B
Yep. Here's your Brain Smith rundown. Then I'll get to the full voting return for our viewers and listeners, he's the reigning Big Ten player of the year. He's second in career scoring among players that have been in the Big Ten for their whole careers. Actually, he's behind Bruce Thornton in that regard, but he's a point guard, obviously. He has 758 assists. He needs eight more to move into third place on the Big Ten's career assist mark. He averaged 15.8 points, 8.7 assists, 4.5 rebounds. Last season was the Koozie Award winner for the top point guard, and he has 1375 points, 758 assists, 535 rebounds in three seasons. He's the. He's only played three. He hasn't played four yet. He is the only player in Big Ten history and only one of 16 players in NCAA D1 history, period, to have 1300 points, at least 700 assists and 500 boards. He has done this with a full season still ahead of him. He needs 125 points and 242 assists, which he's obviously pacing to do to become the first player in NCAA Men's D1 history with at least 1500 points, a thousand assists and 500 rebounds. He if provided, you know, knock on one, nothing for the best from. If you can have a full healthy season. He is going to be as statistically decorated as almost any point guard essentially since Bobby Hurley. He's going to be in very rarefied air. It's this kind of stuff in addition to a lot of coaches between you and I, I don't know the exact number I would venture. There were at least 25 of the coaches that we talked to had had to game plan against Braden Smith at some point in the past three years. Their votes are informed by what they've seen him do. What on the tape, going up against them, seeing it right there in front of their faces. It's why he got such a big percentage of the vote. But it's so very college basketball. Like my big takeaway on this before we get to the rest of the guys on the list. It is so very college basketball. Love it or hate it, whatever, I love it. That a guy who is listed, he's listed at like 6ft, 170, 175 pounds. I take shoes off Braden Smith, I don't think he's 6ft and I'm not sure. He cracks 170. He gets 51% of the vote. This sets a record. But he's an awesome, awesome player and we'll see if he can be the kind of guy that is so good playing alongside. Oh, by the way, like the fact that he got this vote when he's got Kaufman right on the team, they got plenty of stuff around him that to me is intriguing. Here's the voting return overall Beyond Smith at 51. JT Toppin was number two at 14%. Then you get into the freshman Darren Peterson, 9%. AJ DeBance, a 7%. Donovan Dent actually not a freshman. UCLA transfer, 5%. Cam Boozer 4%. Yaxel Lindenborg, 4%. And then other players that received votes. PJ Hackerty at Kansas State, Bennett Sturts at Iowa. I think I either got one or two votes for. I think I got two for Sturts. And the two I got the guys that gave them to me, which should be clear if. If I interview a coach and they have the player on their team, they're not allowed. I don't allow them to vote for them. So these were not.
- [37:06]
A
I do, I do.
- [37:07]
B
I don't. I try to abide by the same rules that the coaches poll goes by. Where you can't vote for your own team to avoid bias. So the point is the people that gave me sturts they're like this dude is unreal. And he you should you need to consider him for first team all American status. So he got a couple and then Milos Use in at Houston also got got some some votes there. The pick of all the guys. You know Peterson advanced a boozer they could be. We're just treated to an awesome that's an awesome trio of freshmen. They're very different in their games. What they're going to be asked to do on their respective teams is also very different. I can't wait to see what they do. Donovan Dent is a fun pick in this poll. He got 5% of the vote. Couple coaches that we put the quotes in. One said quote fastest player in America Elite open floor playmaker Cronin will get him to guard and expand his game. Dent last year averaged 20.4 points at New Mexico, 6.4 assists, 2.3 rebounds and shot 40 from three. It's big time stuff. So he's my fun like dark horse Pick Yaxel Londonborg Most notably averaged 17.7 points, 4.2 assists, 1.8 blocks, 1.7 steals. He led UAB in all five statistical categories. Only he and Cooper flag last year. Only players in the country to lead their teams in all five major categories. And then JT Toppin who came in number two. He averaged just over 18 points. Nine and boards 55 and change from the field and 1.5 blocks. He was comfortably number two. Gonna have a huge target on him. Texas Tech has preseason top 10 potential. Be interested to see if he winds up being number two. I think he can for sure. But I want to see how this carries over now when he's clearly like he's going to be a junior, can he take up an even bigger step there? Fun question. We ask it every year. Always intrigued to see because this one is not informed by any kind of preseason poll. So getting the return here I was. I was interested all around. Any other takeaways from the question?
- [38:57]
A
I do let coaches vote for their own teams or their own players. I kind of like it when they do. Like I had coaches vote for their own players on this question and I had I think multiple coaches vote for their own teams. Who's going to be the best team in college basketball this season. I had multiple coaches say us.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah, well they're both egregious then like it's got to hit a point. Parrish where like you know, if a team that's objectively picked to be in the bottom third of a power conference league like you can't let that coach with it.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. I've never run into that though. The only time I've ever had coaches say it's going to be us, we're going to be the best team is when they have a very legitimate case to have the best team in the country. So I don't outlaw it, but I've never gotten any crazy answers. There are only three consensus all Americans who are back in school. It's Braden Smith, J.T. toppin and P.J. hagerty. So it was interesting that Smith and Toppin were 1 and 2 and Hagerty was just in the other receiving votes. What do you think accounts for that? Just.
- [39:58]
B
Well, wasn't playing as prominent. I mean listen, he played for a good team last year. You know, a solid team in Memphis, a really, really good score. Isn't seen as strong of as strong of a all around player as the other two and is now going to Kansas State. Not a Preseason Projected top 25 team. I think all of that adds to it there.
- [40:16]
A
But if Haggard, he was the American player of the year over Yaxel Lindenborg and Yaxel Lindenborg got more votes in this. But that could be a byproduct of he's going to be on a preseason top 10 team at Michigan.
- [40:27]
B
I think that's exactly what it is. Londonborg is, it was one of the is was considered I think comfortably like a top five transfer in, in the Portal. That's just what his reputation was. Hagerty was probably in that general range as well. But Londonborg went to Michigan and is seen as. His inclusion is what validates Michigan in top 10 standing heading into the season. Haggerty's gone to Kansas State and some of this is a, it's a byproduct obviously of Kansas State a year ago really loading up in the Portal, getting some good preseason buzz and falling flat. Being one of you know, a half dozen teams that just Pratt fell after not making the kind of waves they thought would be in the Portal. So now can, can Hagerty go against it? That's, that's why it happened. But certainly I'm glad he got at least a vote because I think he was deserving of, of recognition there. I wrote it in my story. I think, I think the best, I think the best player all around that didn't get a vote was, is probably Ortega away at Kentucky. He would be My pick, he was probably the most. Yeah, I think he's the strongest. Not to get a vote, but I don't know. We got, you know, plenty of guys got nods, but yeah, Smith running away with it is certainly, certainly interesting. And the haters are going to have to deal with it because from Ed to Smith, the two players just completely opposite in terms of everything about them, but they're at the same program. And you and I both know at Paris, the, the college basketball fans, certainly the casuals, they love to hop on social media and just crap all over that school, crap all over its best players. And 51%, if Braden Smith wins national player of the year, they're going to have to, they're going to have to live with it. He's undeniably an awesome player, but this kind of thing I know will drive some people up a wall. But hey, coaches voting, you have to deal with it. They know what they're talking about at least some of the time. And, and that's what they said.
- [42:05]
A
I had a. Hey, coach, I think we use the quote mentioned Braden Smith and the NBA and said, just trust me, he's going to be there. Do you believe that he will play in the NBA?
- [42:18]
B
You got to define play in the.
- [42:20]
A
NBA, like dribble the ball in the NBA.
- [42:23]
B
So one possession he played in the NBA then. Yes.
- [42:26]
A
Is he going to have a meaningful NBA career?
- [42:28]
B
Will he play? Will he, will he log at least 250 games in the NBA? How about that?
- [42:36]
A
Will he be a rotation player for multiple years?
- [42:42]
B
I'm going to say yes. And the biggest reason I'm going to say yes is be it on record or on background, Matt Painter's belief in Braden Smith, beyond just being his head coach to the point where he has spoken to NBA general managers and just people across basketball and knowing full well the difference between the college game and the program is as in on him as he obviously was with Zach eating. We see how that's gone initially. It's gone relatively well for Zach. So yeah, you say rotational player. I'll set it at. I said it at 250games, which is actually, that's a decent amount. But I'll still say yeah, I'll say he, he logs minutes in at least 250 NBA games in his life.
- [43:26]
A
Yes, I'm going to say yes to yes as well. The only reason, if I were skeptical at all that I would be skeptical is that he is very small and.
- [43:36]
B
It'S not an elite. He's not elite athlete. He's A really good player, but he's obviously not an elite athlete. That's quite obvious if you watch it.
- [43:42]
A
And it has become, I think it is right now harder than ever to be a little guard in the NBA. Because everybody's bigger now. Yeah, I mean everybody's bigger now. I think it is harder than ever to be a six foot point guard or a below six foot point guard than it's ever been. But they do exist and if anybody can make it at that size, it's a guy like him. Fred Van Vliet I believed in for the exact same reasons. I'm, I, I'm gonna believe he can do it until you know there's evidence to, to the contrary. But I, I tend to try to believe in, in people like this. I think he's going to be good the other thing and then we can move on. That just sort of stands out as you look at the history of national players of the year. Yeah, you get the incredible recruits who become that like Kevin Durant, Zion Williamson, Cooper Flagg, Anthony Davis. But also like, and I only this popped in my head because as I was reading what you wrote, you noted that Braden Smith was I think ranked 198th in his high school class.
- [44:43]
B
Yeah.
- [44:44]
A
Like Zach Edie, two time national player of the year was a nothing recruit.
- [44:48]
B
He was in the four hundreds.
- [44:49]
A
Yes. Luca Garza was a borderline top 100 guy. Frank Mason was just I think like Houston. I think he was the sixth best recruit in that Kansas class. If you go look at it, six best in the class, something like that. Obi Toppin was whatever. Doug McDermott was a mid major recruit. Like Doug McDermott played high school basketball with. Is this right? Andrew Barnes? Harrison Barnes, that's right. Like every coach in America came through to see Harrison Barnes saw Doug McDermott and they thought he was a mid major player. He goes on to be a national player of the year. So I just sort of like that about college basketball. These guys can't come from anywhere. Obviously it's, it's advantageous to be the five star guy. But you can, you can, wherever you were ranked coming out of high school, there are examples somebody like you has, has held the, the Wooden Award before.
- [45:43]
B
Yeah, no, it's, I love it, I do love it about that sport. And we'll see, we'll see what develops this season. I real quick and then we'll news and notes. So the top we, we saw the top vote getters, you know, Smith Toppin. Let's just do, yes, let's do Smith, Toppin, Peterson, Debancer, Boozer and Dent. Not even Lindenberg. So take those six. Okay. Would you take one of those six or the field to win national Player of the Year? I would take one of those six, but there's always someone can always pop in and really, you know, no one. If a year ago J.T. toppin would not have been remotely close to this. And look what he. Look what he did. And we had him as an All American. He was obviously one of the five to seven best players in the sport. So those six are the field.
- [46:30]
A
I'd take those six. Yeah.
- [46:32]
B
When do you get down to the field? How. If I, if I take away Dent and I take away Boozer, do you take.
- [46:39]
A
Give me Braden Smith and the three freshmen and I've. I've done good. Like, I think that's where it's coming from.
- [46:44]
B
Okay, give me.
- [46:45]
A
Braden's not the Donovan dent suddenly at UCLA top 10ish team. He's the reigning Mountain west player of the year. He could be the Big Ten player. I mean, like, you know, we've got two, you know, of the best conference players of the year reigning in the same league now.
- [47:02]
B
By way of transfer.
- [47:03]
A
Yes, by way of transfer. So I could see something like that. But yeah, give me Braden Smith and the three, the three top freshmen. And I feel like our national Player of the year is coming from that list. I need four players and you can tell you could have everybody else.
- [47:20]
B
I'll tell you what, looking back at these national player of the years, she boy is the only one that won it with the team that he was, didn't start his career with Flag, Duke, Edie, Purdue. Edie Purdue, she boy, West Virginia top and Dayton, Zion, Duke, Brunson, Nova, Mason, Kansas, Heald and Valentine respectively. Oklahoma and Michigan state, Comanche, Wisconsin, McDermott, Creighton, Burke, Michigan. So we'll see. She was the only one that did it. And he did it through sheer statistical force with his defense and, and rebounding numbers. All right, let's. Let's keep it moving here. Just a quick news and notes segment. Let's go with coaching stuff first. We obviously had a Bruce Pearl emergency reaction earlier this week. Stephen Pearl is subsequently had his introductory press conference there and Auburn. It adjusts in, in real time here to, to a new era. We talked about this on the show, but Bruce did release that he's, you know, doesn't plan to go into politics. And so there we have it. There is more coaching news happening though mentioned a couple days at the end of that show. But Wofford has since officially announced that Kevin Giltner, former Virginia Tech assistant who actually played at Wofford, played under Mike Young. He is now the coach there. That still remains it. That's still trying to move forward. But that whole thing with getting rid of Dwight Perry, very, very weird situation at Watford in general has caused a lot of heads to turn in the industry, but change nonetheless. And then two bad stories. One I mentioned at the end of the show, it had not yet been made public. It has since been made public, and that is Cal State Bakersfield coach Rod Barnes. The technical description is that he has stepped down again. I was told last Friday the president of that university had made the decision to make a change with its program. It just took a few days for that to process, if you will. And Barnes steps down again. The story behind this is very ugly. One of his assistants has been arrested and charged with a litany of just horrendous, horrendous crimes, including human trafficking. The official wording, according to authorities in California, is, quote, pimping and pandering, end quote. But also subsequently found child pornography on his cell phone. I believe he has pleaded not guilty, but it remains to be seen how that case will be moving forward. Nonetheless, they wanted to have something of a reset. Barnes stepped away. This was one of his subordinates. You're the head coach. Whatever reason, they. They make the change there. And we have another coach. I alluded to this, but I didn't specifically name him on the show because at that point the investigation had not been confirmed or details not been made public. Now it has. Wagner coach Donald Copeland is under suspension for allegedly mistreating his players. If you want to use the word abuse, that's an allegation that's out there. Credit to Zach Braziller, who does a really good job. He's a St. John's beat reporter, but does a good job covering just general New York City area college basketball. He broke the story on Wednesday morning. And Copeland, it's, It's Paris is genuinely astounding to me that you could be accused of this kind of behavior in 2025, because this was even like, you know, again, if, if he's proven to have done it. He's currently serving a suspension. It's unclear if he'll return from that suspension or if this will lead to a resignation or job termination. We don't know at this point, but according to Brazilia's reporting, would run his team ragged. The most egregious of the incident, in addition to some inappropriate language being used allegedly wouldn't allow his team to have water breaks during certain practices. Even one of his former players who spoke on the record said it'd be one thing if this was and I'm paraphrasing him here, but he said, you know, it'd be one thing if this was every so often but this was like every day as Zach quote I believe was it was a war on and off the court. There was a specific instance where a player was hiding a Gatorade. I mean this is when just if true, just egregious player was hiding a Gatorade bottle somewhere in the gym because they weren't allowed water breaks. So the player sneaks in, has to sneak in a damn water bottle in the practice and then the water bottle is found, the players caught and then allegedly again emphasize the alleged on this part, Copeland proceeded to make the team run and run and run and run. And as a result of that, per the Post sources, I think reviewing one one such email, one player had to be taken to the hospital as a result of this, another one had passed out. So very ugly situation. I have reached out to Copeland who opted not to respond, but the athletic director at Wagner did confirm with CBS Sports Wednesday that that an investigation is underway. I'll give you the just for formal purposes here, GP I will give you the the actual quote from from WALT the The ad there at @ Wagner. It's been a busy, busy, busy coaching carousel here the past couple of weeks. The exact quote is wagner College takes student health and well being seriously. Upon learning of these allegations, we move quickly to review them as we will not comment further on this matter, end quote. In addition to confirming the suspension with CBS Sports. So there we have it, a couple more news items about that.
- [52:26]
A
Well, first, this is outrageous. Obviously these are allegations. I wasn't in the gym. We'll wait for the investigation to conclude. But if true as reported, like deserve to lose your job and probably never to coach again. It's 2025. You hear a story like the stories that are coming out of that program and the person telling them should be like so I grew up in the 60s and man, I had this coach one time and he wouldn't even let us have water breaks. And you'd be like, oh grandpa, that's crazy. This is 2025. Like what the allegation is that they have no water breaks, they're running non stop, players are dehydrated, one has to be hospitalized. And if you said something like hey coach, could I get some water the allegation is that his response was, in some cases, if you're thirsty, drink your spit. If you're thirsty, drink your spit. I just can't imagine working my entire adult life on some level to try to put myself in a position to be a Division 1 head coach and then blow it over stupid like this. Like. Like, you don't have to demean people to be an effective coach. You don't have to demean people to be effective at basically anything, far as I know. But the idea that this is the way you have to coach is just. I don't think it's ever been true, but it's certainly not true in the year 2025. It's just like, I don't even understand how people reach a point where they can't grasp. I am way over the line right now. And honestly, I can't understand how somebody on his staff couldn't reel him in at some point and be like, buddy, you about to get all of us fired if you keep acting like this. Because had I been his friend or confidant, that's the first thing I would have said when I witnessed what is alleged to have gone down. I would have put him aside and said, this is your program. I work for you. I know, but you are going to get us all in trouble if we keep operating this way. It's just stupid, reckless. And now it appears he's going to pay a big price for it.
- [54:38]
B
And just. You have to be an idiot to think that withholding hydration from your players makes them perform better.
- [54:43]
A
Like, that's like an actual idiot with. With like, real, like, man. Once you get your pink slip, get in therapy and figure this out.
- [54:52]
B
Yeah. I mean, come on.
- [54:53]
A
Once you get your pink slip, get into therapy and figure out why you thought you needed to demean young men who should be looking up to you. Why you thought you needed to demean young men and punish them to the point to where at least one was reportedly hospitalized. Once you get your pink slip, get into therapy and figure out why you thought you needed to do your job that way. Because, man, you got you. You got some work to do.
- [55:18]
B
Yeah. I'll also emphasize, obviously, if true, but it's reached the point where there was enough where they felt compelled to suspend him. We'll wait for more details to come out. It is Wagner, but yeah, just bizarrely busy coaching situation in college basketball in September. We basically never have this. That's on top of just like Billy Lang left St. Joe's to go coach in the NBA. There's just been a lot there. A couple more. A couple more notes and let's bounce here. Iowa State point guard Tamon Lipsey will be out four to six weeks. School revealed that he has a sprained right mcl. Parrish. He is as important to that team this season as. As any player there has never missed a start in his career. Quick reacts to the situation there and whether we think it'll impact, you know, four to six weeks means maybe he'll be available at the start of the season. But if you told me he wasn't, I wouldn't be surprised.
- [56:08]
A
Yeah, it's obviously not ideal, if only because it's not just about being ready for the start of the season. Like you're missing four to six weeks of workouts with your teammates and just you. You lose something. I, I never met a coach who didn't think a player missing a lengthy amount of time in the preseason didn't negatively impact, you know, things on some level. So it's not good. You know, it's not an Achilles happened in, you know, late September as opposed to late October. That's better. But it's, it's. It's not ideal for, for an Iowa State program that, you know, should continue to operate at a high level, which it's been doing consistently under TJ I.
- [56:51]
B
Think Lipsy has a chance if healthy and he can get good and get right quicker. I actually think he can be an All American this season. I think that's how much he means to Iowa State if it all comes together. Two more. One. This one I did not see coming. The NCAA on Wednesday, I guess, or Tuesday ruled that you can play in the G League and then become eligible in college hoops. So theory Darlin is going to play at Santa Clara and he is good to go after playing two years for G League Ignite. I don't know how many other players are seeking this route. I assume more will now that this is something that's on the table there. Personally, I don't have an issue with it whatsoever. Get me as much good talent as is allowable and reasonable in college basketball, period. But he's gonna go to Santa Clara. It's produced the likes of Jalen Williams and Brandon Pajemski as of late. So I don't know if he has an NBA future or not. Frankly, I don't know anything about this player. But nevertheless, it's going to play in. In the wcc. Any quick thoughts on it?
- [57:47]
A
Yeah, it's like, where do we go from Here, I mean, Rick Patito jumps on Twitter and is like, should I be recruiting NBA players now? Like, I, I'm gonna put a call into Giannis because tell me, practically speaking, what is the difference here? What, what is the difference here? This young man could have gone to college and played basketball if he wanted to. Decided to instead sign a professional contract with the G League. He played two seasons of G League basketball.
- [58:16]
B
Yeah.
- [58:16]
A
And now he is coming to college basketball with two seasons of eligibility remaining. That is what the NCAA ruled, practically speaking. Tell me, what is the difference between that and what I'm about to hypothesize?
- [58:30]
B
Okay, let's hear it.
- [58:31]
A
Liam McNeely goes to UConn.
- [58:34]
B
Yeah.
- [58:34]
A
He's a five star freshman. He has a fine freshman season and he's drafted in the 2025 NBA Draft. Let's say he goes, he signs a standard two year contract, rookie scale contract. Those are all standard, you know, that's what you get. He signs that. The way those rookie contracts work, there's a team option, year three, there's a team option year four. Those almost always get picked up. I know that. Play along, though. Liam McNeely gets to the NBA and he stinks. All right? Can't play nothing. And after two years, they declined the team option. And nobody else in the NBA is interested because he's not any good. Dan Hurley picks up the phone and says, I can get you $4 million to come back to UConn and do us one more season with the Huskies. Practically speaking, what's the difference? Tell me.
- [59:25]
B
Well, the rules literally don't allow for that, whereas it wasn't the case here. That's the. You can't declare for the draft and then return to be eligible in college sports. So this player never declared for the draft, and that's why he's eligible.
- [59:36]
A
He was. He, he, he, he was in the. Withdrew. But he did withdrew.
- [59:41]
B
Yes, but he withdrew. Liam McNeely never withdrew. So that's one big difference. Also, I think the parallel here is that this darlin player is a lot like Tester Ritter at Virginia and some other players where they have logged. I think this is why he got eligible, period. You have. Illinois's got a guy like this. You've got a few players at high level D1 players that played professionally, earned a paycheck to play in leagues in Europe, and then cleared the eligibility bar to come over to the United States to enroll in college and play this season and beyond in men's college basketball and Santa Clara, darlin's. Representative, his agent, whoever made the case of like what's functionally the difference between Deridder at Virginia and him right here? Is it because he played in a semi professional professional league stateside as opposed to somewhere in Spain or Italy or anywhere else? And they made that case and that's why they were ruled eligible. That's why I think the connecting thread is here.
- [60:35]
A
But okay, fine, let me give you a new one. Player never enters a draft but just signs a G league contract out of high school. You know, however that works. And then, and then is so good after one year in the G League that he's in the NBA. He, they, they pull him up, he's a, now he's an NBA player, but then like you know, bombs and now he's out of the league. Can he, can he come back to college after playing in the NBA? Why not?
- [61:03]
B
No. Well, the rule says you cannot be drafted and return to play college.
- [61:08]
A
I didn't say he was drafted. Not drafted. Not drafted. Signed a G league contract, then played in the NBA and now he's out of the NBA. He's played two seasons of professional basketball, one in the G League, one in the NBA, but now he's out of the, out of the NBA and somebody's offering $3 million to come back to come to college basketball. Can he do that after playing. Can you play it? If you can play in the G league one season and college basketball the next, why can't you play in the NBA one season in college basketball the next?
- [61:34]
B
Hey, I, I don't know but I say bring them on, man.
- [61:38]
A
Yeah, I don't care. I just don't know where we suppose.
- [61:41]
B
It'S possible college basketball with again, within reason. I don't want, I don't want 27 year olds like dotting rosters. But if you're, you know, if you're within 20, 21 years old and you can pass it. I, I don't have a huge issue.
- [61:51]
A
I don't even know if this guy's.
- [61:52]
B
Going to be a factor. But I know this did raise some eyebrows there.
- [61:56]
A
If I were a college coach now, I would grab one of my, I'd have somebody on staff saying, going look through G league rosters and let's find comparable like people with comparable stories.
- [62:07]
B
Yeah.
- [62:08]
A
And let's, let's see if we can offer somebody, you know, $1.5 million to come play college basketball. Like I would be doing that right now. And I bet you some coaches are.
- [62:19]
B
Could be the next wave. There's always Something, man. Nothing stops in the sport. Last.
- [62:25]
A
But, like, based on my premise, you could literally have somebody in theory play games against LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Steph Curry in one season and then play at the O Dome the next.
- [62:42]
B
Would be amazing. If.
- [62:43]
A
So I say let's think that stands.
- [62:46]
B
Up to actual scrutiny of what's written into. Into the rule book. But I want to believe. Please make it happen.
- [62:52]
A
Yeah, listen, I don't want to belabor the point and go down this, but, like, you would have to explain why playing in the G League and coming to college is fine, but playing in the NBA and come to college isn't. If it's the exact sets of circumstances leading up to that point. What. Practically speaking, what is the difference between playing two years in the G League and playing two years in the NBA? You're playing professional basketball in the United States of America for a paycheck. They're both professional basketball leagues. Just one is obviously better than the other. But if we're now allowing G League players who were never drafted to bounce to college basketball, you would have to explain to me, and you might have to explain to a judge, too. You'd have to explain to me, and perhaps a judge, why. Why an NBA player wouldn't be allowed under the exact set of circumstances to do the exact same thing.
- [63:40]
B
Last. Last. Headline. Sister Jean has retired at the ripe age of 106.
- [63:47]
A
Somebody's getting lazy.
- [63:49]
B
Well, I'm not gonna go there. I got my sister Jean Bob right here. Hey, little sister Jean. 106 before retiring. Just a legend in every sense of the word. Checked in. She did have. I think she.
- [64:02]
A
When I said somebody's getting lazy, I meant Bruce Pearl, not Sister Gene. What are you talking about? Bruce Pearl retired at 65. I know Sister Jean would have done another. Another 51.
- [64:13]
B
Dude, put the number on it.
- [64:15]
A
I wasn't gonna try to add that up in my head.
- [64:17]
B
41. Yeah, 41. 41 years.
- [64:20]
A
Four more decades. Come on. BP.
- [64:22]
B
I know. How about that? You know, she's one. She's 106 years old.
- [64:27]
A
Like that. That alone. 106 year old.
- [64:32]
B
I think many of us, you see Sister Gene and something pop across your feet or whatever and you're like, please, God, no. And thankfully, still, I think rel for 106 doing okay. I know she had a health issue earlier this year. I think it's just a factor of, again, being 106. This is entirely reasonable that she is now not going to be attending games on the regular. If I don't even know how frequently, but. But obviously her presence is still felt there. And she is a one of a kind figure in American sports. But the news did come out this week. She is opting to retire as team chaplain at the beautiful age of 106 years old. Nothing but the best to you, Sister Jacqueline.
- [65:17]
A
I think when I first saw this, I had a similar, like, breaking Sister gene.
- [65:23]
B
I was like, oh, you cannot use. If that happened. I'm not saying it didn't. I don't know if I saw that. But something like that breaking with Sister Jean.
- [65:30]
A
It was something like. It was something like I read Sister Jean and I was scared to read the next word.
- [65:36]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [65:37]
A
I didn't want to keep reading. I just wanted to stop right there. And then I was like, okay, we're fine. We're fine. Just an amazing life. Amazing life for. For a woman. I have.
- [65:48]
B
I have.
- [65:48]
A
I have labeled the most famous nun in America.
- [65:53]
B
You might have said in the world. That was part of.
- [65:55]
A
I know. But then I got some pushback. You know, the world's a big place.
- [65:57]
B
Yes.
- [65:57]
A
I'm gonna keep it simple. The most famous nun in America outside of possibly Whoopi Goldberg.
- [66:07]
B
I think that's a show. I don't know what was going on in the chat. I think not a band. Someone in a September podcast. So I don't know what was going on there. Nada. We appreciate you keeping things up and orderly, but I like when the chat's humming here on.
- [66:20]
A
It's so funny to me. Like, if you didn't know anything about anything, you just popped in. It's like the official CBS sports college basketball just arguing with everybody and it's really just nada.
- [66:29]
B
I love it. That is a show. I think we're planning on doing a Monday show with a few more candid coaches. I'm off to the Ryder cup bright and early tomorrow. Covering the Ryder cup this weekend. Very excited to get down there and.
- [66:43]
A
You ever been to Beth Page Black? You ever played?
- [66:45]
B
I haven't. No, buddy. No, I haven't. I've wanted to. A buddy of mine has done the drive there. Sleeping your car overnight deal. But I've. Hopefully one day. But it's where it is on Long Island. Kind of a pain to get to, but. But I'm getting there tomorrow. Saturday, Sunday. Really looking forward to it. And usa. Usa. We'll see if they can. If they can get it done on the old home turf there.
- [67:04]
A
Are you sure you're rooting for America?
- [67:06]
B
Savvy. You rooting for your Europe. I'm going to be an objective journalist and just cover the event as it unfolds.
- [67:10]
A
That's boring. That's boring. I'm not going to be objective. I'm going to pick a side, but I'm not sure how I'm going to pick. I'm going to decide. I'm going to decide tonight.
- [67:17]
B
Okay, well, you got to. They're releasing the. The tee times any minute here, if they haven't already, as we've been podcasting. But yeah, that's it. That's all I got for you.
- [67:25]
A
Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching and listening to the Iron on college Basketball Podcast. You're not subscribed, please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcasts including Apple and Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care. You can be anything. Podcasts.
- [68:30]
B
Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never looked so good. You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me.
- [68:41]
A
You haven't changed your hair in 15 years.
- [68:44]
B
Selfies check, please. New and existing customers can get the new iPhone 17 Pro.
- [68:49]
A
Designed to be be the most powerful iPhone ever. With eligible phone trade in and unlimited.
- [68:52]
B
Ultimate any condition guaranteed.
- [68:54]
A
Best 5G source route metric, State of United States 1 2025.
- [68:56]
B
All rights reserve, trade in and additional terms apply for all offers.
- [68:58]
A
See verizon.com for details.