Coaching carousel recap and deep dive: Thoughts + intel on all 14 high-major changes, plus the most notable mid-major job swaps

Summary

Podcast Summary: Eye On College Basketball Episode: Coaching Carousel Recap and Deep Dive: Thoughts + Intel on All 14 High-Major Changes, Plus the Most Notable Mid-Major Job Swaps Release Date: April 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of CBS Sports’ official college basketball podcast, "Eye On College Basketball," hosts Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander delve into the whirlwind of the coaching carousel that has reshaped the landscape of college basketball. Focusing on all 14 high-major coaching changes and highlighting the most notable mid-major job swaps, the duo provides insightful commentary, insider information, and statistical analysis to help fans navigate the evolving dynamics of the sport.

Overview of the Coaching Carousel

Every March, the coaching carousel spins rapidly, often overshadowed by the excitement of the NCAA Tournament. However, the implications of these coaching changes extend far beyond the tournament, impacting programs and player development for years to come. Gary and Matt aim to shed light on these pivotal changes, assessing their potential impact on the respective programs.

High Major Coaching Changes

1. NC State – Will Wade

   • Background: At 42 years old, Will Wade brings a wealth of experience with 246 career wins from stints at Chattanooga, VCU, and LSU.
   • Analysis: Matt Norlander considers Wade the most intriguing hire, emphasizing his potential to uplift NC State's program. Gary Parish echoes this sentiment, stating, “We should see if [Wade] can make State matter” and expresses strong belief in Wade’s ability to bring relevancy back to NC State (04:01).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “NC State could not have asked for a better situation and a better coach in that spot” (01:59).

2. Minnesota – Nico Medved

   • Background: At 51 years old with over 200 career wins, Medved has a successful record at Furman, Drake, and Colorado State.
   • Analysis: Both hosts agree that Medved is a perfect fit for Minnesota. Gary highlights Medved’s history of improving programs: “he left every single one of those places in a better spot” (10:42).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “Nico Medved will do the same at Minnesota” (10:42).

3. Iowa – Ben McCollum

   • Background: With a remarkable 31-4 record at Drake, McCollum is known for his winning consistency and ability to build strong programs.
   • Analysis: Gary Parish praises McCollum’s track record, asserting that Iowa’s strong financial support will likely position the program in the top third of the Big Ten (10:42).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “I believe in winners, and he’s undeniably a winner” (10:42).

4. Texas – Sean Miller

   • Background: A seasoned coach with 487 career wins, Miller joins Texas after a controversial departure from Xavier.
   • Analysis: Gary acknowledges the friction his departure caused but agrees that Texas offers Miller a chance to compete for national championships (40:26).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “He believes he’ll have a better chance to consistently make Final Fours at Texas” (40:26).

5. Maryland – Buzz Williams

   • Background: At 52 years old, Buzz Williams brings 373 career wins and experience from New Orleans, Marquette, Virginia Tech, and Maryland.
   • Analysis: Gary views Williams as a solid hire, noting Maryland’s improved resources and the potential for multiple Sweet Sixteens under his leadership (33:07).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “This is a guy who knows how to run a basketball program” (28:34).

6. Miami – Jay Lucas

   • Background: The youngest hire at 36, Jay Lucas comes from an NBA background with a strong defensive coaching reputation.
   • Analysis: Gary appreciates Lucas’s impressive resume and sees potential in Miami’s healthy NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) situation to support his coaching methods (23:33).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “He checks all the boxes of somebody that you would have to seriously consider” (23:33).

7. Indiana – Drew DeVries

   • Background: With a 169-68 record and a reputation as an excellent ball coach, DeVries moves to Indiana following the swift coaching changes post-selection Sunday.
   • Analysis: Gary is optimistic about DeVries’s ability to utilize Indiana’s resources effectively, believing that DeVries will stabilize the program (28:34).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “He has an incredible reputation and he'll have the resources” (28:34).

8. West Virginia – Ross Hodge

   • Background: At 44 years old with a 192-48 record, Hodge is known for his elite defensive strategies.
   • Analysis: Gary views Hodge as a promising hire who can adapt his high school coaching success to the SEC’s competitive environment (43:34).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “He gets this opportunity at a relatively young age. Let’s see how it works in the SEC” (43:34).

9. Xavier – Rich Patino

   • Background: With 247 career wins and experience at FIU, Minnesota, New Mexico, and now Xavier, Patino is poised to bring new energy to the Big East program.
   • Analysis: The hosts discuss Patino’s solid performance at Drake and his potential to maintain Xavier’s top-tier status (53:27).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “Patino has done a solid job. We’ll see how he adapts to the high major level” (53:03).

10. Indiana – Fran McCaffrey

    • Background: McCaffrey returns to Penn, bringing extensive experience from Iowa, Siena, and more.
    • Analysis: Gary confirms McCaffrey’s return to his alma mater, emphasizing the positive impact he will have on Penn’s program (56:06).
    • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “Fran McCaffrey is back at Penn, contributing significantly to the program” (56:06).

Mid-Major Coaching Changes

1. Creighton – Alan Huss

   • Background: Formerly at High Point, Huss joins Creighton as an associate head coach, positioning him as the future head coach.
   • Analysis: Gary praises this strategic move, highlighting the unique situation of aligning succession planning at Creighton (55:34).
   • Notable Quote: Gary Parish: “This is a unique situation that’s intriguing for Omaha” (55:34).

2. Drake – Eric Henderson

   • Background: Coming from South Dakota State, Henderson steps into the Drake program with high expectations.
   • Analysis: Both hosts view Henderson as a strong hire capable of maintaining Drake’s dominance in the Missouri Valley (54:35).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “I think that is a very, very good hire” (54:35).

3. UNLV – Josh Pastner

   • Background: Pastner moves from ESPN to coach UNLV, bringing a media-savvy approach to the Rebels.
   • Analysis: Gary and Matt are optimistic about Pastner’s ability to bring consistency and relevancy back to UNLV (37:16).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “We keep waiting for UNLV to have year over year consistency” (44:33).

4. VCU – Phil Martelli Jr.

   • Background: Martelli Jr., formerly of South Dakota State, takes over the VCU Rams amid the program’s unique contractual clauses.
   • Analysis: Gary notes the intriguing nature of VCU’s hiring practices and the potential for long-term stability under Martelli (53:27).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “VCU has a great track record of producing excellent coaches” (53:27).

5. New Mexico – Eric Olin

   • Background: Olin moves from UC San Diego to lead the Lobos, aiming to navigate the Mountain West’s shifting dynamics.
   • Analysis: Gary discusses the challenges New Mexico faces within a transitioning conference and praises Olin’s potential (57:08).
   • Notable Quote: Matt Norlander: “Undoubtedly, they can set themselves as annual participants in the NCAA Tournament” (57:08).

Analysis and Insights

Gary and Matt provide a comprehensive analysis of the coaching changes, emphasizing the importance of fit and the resources available to new hires. They highlight that coaches like Will Wade and Ben McCollum are expected to make significant positive impacts due to their proven track records and the support from their new programs. Conversely, younger or less experienced coaches such as Luke Laux and Jay Lucas present more uncertainty, with their success contingent on adaptation and support.

The discussion also touches on the financial realities driving these changes, noting that programs with substantial budgets and NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) support are better positioned to attract and retain top coaching talent. Additionally, the hosts express concerns about the increasing volatility in coaching positions, likening the trend to a move toward an “NBA-like” environment where short-term success is paramount.

Conclusion

The coaching carousel of 2025 has introduced a mix of seasoned veterans and promising newcomers into the high-major and mid-major college basketball landscape. Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander offer a balanced view, recognizing the potential for both success and challenges as these coaches settle into their new roles. While some hires are viewed as clear front-runners with high expectations, others carry more uncertainty, underscoring the unpredictable nature of coaching transitions. As the season progresses, the impact of these changes will become more evident, shaping the future trajectory of college basketball programs nationwide.

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This summary is intended to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode for those who have not listened to it, highlighting key discussions and insights shared by Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander.

Transcript

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[Gary Parish]

Spring Black Friday is here, and we've got 14 days of deals to transform your space. So what are you working on? How about a quick and stylish patio furniture update? And what's outdoor dining without a shiny new grill? Find a wide selection of grills under $300 like the next grill four burner for only $229 at the home Depot. Then add a little ambiance with string lights. Shop 14 days of deals during spring Black Friday, now through April 16 at the home Depot. Hey there, Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports I own college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting dodo birds. Leaky black Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies. And if you haven't yet subscribed to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel, you should do that. Make sure you do that. Let's get into it. One of the things that happens every March is that the coaching carousel, you know, it spins, spins and spins and spins. But we're too consumed with the actual, like, NCAA tournament to spend much time on the coaching changes that will in some cases impact the sport in the coming years. But we have time today, I gather. So, Norlander, let's talk coaching carousel. First question for you.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay.

[Gary Parish]

Do you have a favorite hire from this hiring cycle, like the one you believe in most, like the one where you go, oh, buddy, I bet my paycheck that one's gonna work well.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. It's great to be back with you, GP and, and yeah, as a reminder, we say this, I think every year, but just, you know, not all of these are going to work out. Like I, we've got, I know we've got 14 high major changes here and I think the dust has settled here. We should be good. There's been like some roaming, like, will UCF open? Will it not open? Doesn't think like, don't feel like it's going to open so we should be good. Although if you told me we had another surprise retirement between now and the start of next season, like I wouldn't be stunned by that whatsoever. But this is where things are settled right now. So when you ask like who my favorite I don't know if I have a favorite. I do have one that I think I find to be the most there's actually a lot of interesting ones I want to try and touch on every single high major one. At least here I would Will Wade to NC State would probably be my pick. He's 42, he's won 70 of his games, has 246 career wins. State probably could not have asked for a better situation and a better coach in that spot. This is his fifth job. He was at Chattanooga, VCU, LSU. We know what happened there. And then Matt McNeesey brings him to back to back tournaments. They got to win this year. Can he make State matter? It is definitely a splashy hire. The boosters really rallied for him and there's a scenario in which I could see Will Wade truly like uplifting NC State and making that program not just it automatically is relevant now back in the triangle again. Like it just made a Final Four. The whole oddity of Kevin Keats making that Final Four a year ago and then getting fired a year later, we basically almost never see that kind of scenario play out. But it played out here and Wade was identified early in that search and was considered the overwhelming favorite among the people that matter around outside of NC State's athletic department. They wanted them to go get well weighed and the athletic director, Buchorgan made it happen there. So that would be the one to me that that I think is the most interesting. But that's not to say there aren't other ones and we'll get to all of those. But to your general question, GP I would say, wait, what about you?

[Gary Parish]

That would be on my list of hires to consider. Like there are plenty of hires. Not plenty, but multiple. At least in my mind where the school did the most sensible thing it could do. As you pointed out, these won't all work. So I can't guarantee you that will Wade's going to work at NC State or any of these guys are going to work where they got hired. But I do think there's at least two high major jobs where they I don't even need to have a conversation about it. And I think I said this to you before. One of these schools hired the coach like we don't need to talk. Like, just go hire that guy and be done with it. We'll wade NC State's one of those. Like, I just think that's obvious. It's just, we'll see if it works. But that's the guy who should get this job in this moment for a variety of reasons that we've talked about before. The other one that I think is just obvious. Like, this is the smart, obvious, sensible thing to do now. We'll see how it goes. But this was the only thing you should do in this moment. Nico Medved to Minnesota. Yeah, like, it's just like, there's just no other. I don't need to have any conversation. It's a Minneapolis native who's been incred, like really good at Colorado State, really respected in the industry. You and I both know him. You've had a personal rivalry with him for years. Me, I've had a friendly relationship for years. I just think he's terrific and was always headed to be a high major coach and I love that it's going to happen under these circumstances. If I would have even heard that Minnesota was considering hiring somebody else, I would have immediately said this. You're overthinking it. You're getting too cute. This is the guy. Those two are great. The one I believe in the most, I think maybe my favorite hire is Bima column to Iowa. Okay, I, I believe in successful people. I believe in people who either never or rarely fail, regardless of what they're doing. This is a point I remember making about Andy enfield back in 2013 when he got the USC job kind of out of nowhere. That was a wild one in the sense that at least at Drake, Ben like had a whole season of building up this narrative connected to him that, oh, he's really good and look at what he did at the D2 level and this guy might be able to be a one and done at, at the mid major level of Division 1 basketball. Like, we started talking about that in like December probably. I don't remember talking about Andy Enfield till I was in Philadelphia watching Dunk City and his wife was going viral in the stands. Like, I don't remember us talking about him. I don't remember thinking about him that just sort of like, boom, they won a game, then boom, they won another game. Next thing you know, he's the USC coach and people are like, can you really do this? He's got no ties to that part of the country. He's never worked in that part of the country. Very limited experience. And I just looked at the Wikipedia page, honestly, and I was like, I don't know much about this guy other than what I've just learned over the past week. But it looks like everything he does, he succeeds at in basketball, outside of basketball. Like, he doesn't seem to, to struggle in life in any sort of professional way. So I'm just going to assume he's going to, he'll figure it out. Smart people who are successful tend to figure things out. And now here we are in 2025. I know he's not the coach at USC anymore, but, you know, it's, it's because he left, he didn't get fired. So he's still, to this point, never been fired. Ben McCollum, apples to oranges, but similarly successful in what he does. This is a guy who took over a not great situation at Northwest Missouri State back in 2009. By year three, he was a conference champion. Two years later, won it again, then won it 10 more times in a row. So added up 12 conference championships in 13 seasons, including 11 in a row before he left for Drake. Gets the Drake job. Oh, won four national titles. 17, 19, 22. Then he gets the Drake job. Oh, division two guy going up to D1. How's this going to go perfectly? 31 and four overall, 17 and three in the league. Went to the round of 32 of the NCAA tournament. Finished 52nd at Kinpom. That's the best finish for Drake at Kinpom since 2008 when trivia time. Okay, name the coach that led Drake to a Davis.

[Matt Norlander]

Come on. Come on. Keno Davis. Let's go. Got the Providence. Got the Providence job. It didn't go so well. And Drake. Trivia time. Maybe something. Who did, who did Drake lose to in the NCAA tournament that season? Come on.

[Gary Parish]

I mean, I have not. Kendrick Lamar.

[Matt Norlander]

No, that was, that was 2008. That was the Tampa. That was the Tampa Regional or the pod. I'm almost positive. Fact check myself. I'm almost positive. That was the Western Kentucky win. 12 over 5. It was 101. 99 Western Kentucky Beast Drake. So Drake OT had this huge, huge season open 22 and 1 that season under Keno Davis lost in dramatic fashion to wku, shout out to Adam Amenecker. All. All the same, he was a, he was a standout player on that dream.

[Gary Parish]

So Keno Davis, it's the last Drake one and done. Coach one year at Drake, then goes to Providence, then. Oh, let's see how smart you are. Where did he coach after Providence. Let's see how smart.

[Matt Norlander]

Central Michigan.

[Gary Parish]

Okay, Norlander. Okay. Let's see how smart you are.

[Matt Norlander]

Be ready.

[Gary Parish]

Let's see. Let's see how smart I would have gotten none of this.

[Matt Norlander]

If you're telling me where Keno Davis is right now, I cannot tell you.

[Gary Parish]

But I barely remembered Keno Davis before I name this morning. And I love Keno Davis, but I like.

[Matt Norlander]

Are you sure? I don't think you do.

[Gary Parish]

Where is Keno Dave? What is he doing right now? I know you might not.

[Matt Norlander]

I do not. I. I have no idea.

[Gary Parish]

He's a scouting consultant for the Indiana Pacers. He found Tyrese Halliburton. I don't. I don't know if that's true.

[Matt Norlander]

He did not. But regardless, good for Keno. I'm glad he's good for Keno.

[Gary Parish]

I am, too. So I'm Ben McCollum. Like, this is a guy who is obviously an undeniably an awesome basketball coach. And I would have more questions in a different era. I'd be like, I don't know, man. Like, I love that he's going home to Iowa and he can obviously coach basketball, but, buddy, you're in a league with Indiana and ucla, Michigan State, and you better. You better know how to navigate those waters or else, I don't care how good of a basketball coach you are, you're going to look up and you're going to be outplayed. And they might still, you know, find themselves in that situation sometimes. But if you could tell me, Iowa's nil. Iowa's ability to buy players, to build a roster with money is going to be top half of the Big Ten. I'll tell you, this guy's going to finish top third at a Big Ten. More often than not. I believe in winners, and he's undeniably a winner.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. And. And by the way, if you're a fan of NC State, if you're a fan of Minnesota, a fan of Iowa, you know, reason to really have a lot of excitement, genuine and for genuine reasons. Like, we're not just. We're not putting forward filler content here. Like, I. I do believe that NC State with Will Wade ranks as the most intriguing hire because I could see a situation in which Will Wade wins big and brings a certain spark of relevancy to NC State that hasn't been there for a long time. You mentioned Nico. Let me speak on that real quick. And then I want to go on. On Ben before we tour around the rest of the high major openings here. Nico, just Hand in glove kind of fit. 51 years old. He's got more than 200 wins in his career. He just obviously brought Colorado State to the to the second round and damn near close to the sweet 16. He was the obvious and only candidate once Ben Johnson was fired. Minnesota had a bottom two nil situation over the past three years in the Big Ten. I still think it's going to be in the bottom quarter of that. But just keep in mind with Nico Medved at Furman and at Drake and at Colorado State, the three previous places where he was a head coach, he left every single one of those places in a better spot undeniably than what he inherited when he got there. So if you're a Minnesota fan, in addition to him being a local guy and all that, I think he will do the same at Minnesota. Whether he is there, you know, four years or he's there for 20 years, who knows. I think when he leaves Minnesota on the whole it will have been better than the situation that he inherited overall. So yeah, very, very a great fit there. I know Nico Medved doesn't rank among the five or six most high profile additions on the cycle, but man, GPM with you on that and then McCollum, how about this? If you're an Iowa fan to everything that GP just said, okay. In addition to that, he is, he has the best win percentage of any coach hire this cycle. Iowa, Iowa fans, you got the guy who as a head coach has won more games than anyone else. Now a lot of that was at the D2 level. I get all that. But he won't four national championships. His record in NCAA tournament play is 33. 8. Most of that being D2. I get that. But even in his one year at Drake, you know, he goes 1 and 1 and had a really, really good team there and 31 wins. He's 44 years old. Indiana did look into him and he was a finalist at Indiana. And we'll get to more on De Vries in Indiana probably after the break here. But McCollum feels like the Iowa. It just he's from there. He's going to bring Bennett Certz along. Sturtz was one of the best transfers in the portal last season moving up to D1. This is a program that has not made the Sweet 16 since 1999. You know, Iowa was due. Fred McCaffrey did a fine job obviously. And we'll get to Fran before the end of the show because if you know it, you know it. But no spoilers. Fran McCaffrey is still a Division 1 coach. And if you're not sure where, I'll tell you before we get to the end.

[Gary Parish]

I can tell you. I know it. Trivia family. I know, I know it's a teaser. Okay.

[Matt Norlander]

The tease.

[Gary Parish]

Still, I would like you. You had a hell of a run with trivia time right there. I would like to get one if I could. You know, you.

[Matt Norlander]

I. That's, that's. That's true. Okay. I will, I will. I will somehow someway get you a trivia time before we get out of the show.

[Gary Parish]

No, I want specifically one about where does frame McCaffrey coach right now.

[Matt Norlander]

You know what? I'll give you that before the end of the show.

[Gary Parish]

Okay, Good, good, good.

[Matt Norlander]

I'm gonna give you that. But McCollum is super smart, super competitive. There's no, like, there is no. Obviously there's no guarantee that any of these guys that they're. That they're successful. I would be surprised if McCollum and yeah. Literally no, no higher. This cycle has a better track record than Ben McCollum and Iowa fans, he's your coach. That's really, really, really exciting. So I'm with you the whole way on that.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah. And I don't mean this. I swear to God, hand to heart, I don't mean this as an indictment of Indiana or a shot at Indiana. I just mean this plainly. I know a different dude might have. If you put those jobs on the table, it's like, man, I'd really love Indiana. I'll take Iowa, but I'd love it. He might like, we might look back on this and be like, the fact that Indiana decided to go another direction is the best thing that happened to him.

[Matt Norlander]

I agree not to say that he wouldn't have had success in India. Ultimately, Indiana did not pick him. But I just think, and I don't know Ben that well, but in talking to him previously, before this cycle and people that know him, there's just. Iowa feels like it. It. There's a better probability at more long term success for how he's wired. That's all. He could have been. He could have been great at Indiana. I had someone tell me before Devries got the job, I had someone tell me that knows McCollum well. He said if Indiana hires that guy nine times, basically they're saying like nine times out of ten, he's going to make the final four. And I think that he is. He will be able to win a national championship. Now they all doesn't mean Devries can't Do it. Freeze also has plenty of but there was a lot of that. But I think Iowa just seems there's a lot of hirings this cycle. GP where the guy who got the job. Now that the dust is settled, I'm kind of like yeah, this does make sense in the here and now. There's not a lot of like head scratching ones to me personally. And McCollum is at the top of the list.

[Gary Parish]

Right. Yeah, I believe he would have done well at Indiana. I just at Iowa the bar is just at a different place. Like what's going to get you contract extensions at Iowa might get you in trouble at Indiana. And it just seems like this is a, it might end up being a better this might be and then we'll move on one of those deals where not getting picked by them, for lack of a better phrase, ends up being a good thing for you and your career and in, in your life and we could look up in a few years. And again you just tell me he's going to have nil where he can be competitive in the transfer portal. Like top tier Big Ten teams, programs are going to be like he doesn't need to match Michigan State or Indiana dollar for dollar. That'd be great. But if you tell me he's going to be able to roster build in a way where you don't look at the roster and just go man, you could give that to John Wooden or Mick Cronin and they're going to have a hard time with it. As long as we're not saying that about his rosters, this guy's going to win. I believe that.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, let's nada. Let's take a quick break. I want to touch on at least every high major. There are 14 changes. So quick break from our partners. Then we'll, then I'll, I'll, I'll take GP by the hand and we'll take, we'll take the scenic route and tour through the rest of the high majors plus the mid majors. You need to know but first word from our partners.

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[Gary Parish]

Kaley Cuoco here.

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[Matt Norlander]

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[Gary Parish]

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[Gary Parish]

All right.

[Matt Norlander]

Before. Oh, okay. Yes, G.P. go ahead.

[Gary Parish]

Before we get into this, I just got to share something with you.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay.

[Gary Parish]

I've been a wreck the past, like, 12, 15 hours.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, the grizzlies. Is it the grizzlies? I know the grizzlies lost. That's not it.

[Gary Parish]

My little dog, Luca, like, he just disappeared last night.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gary Parish]

Okay. Like, the story has a good ending. Okay. Just disappeared last night. And this isn't like a. Okay, a shock to this because he. He has a tendency to get out and then he will follow a walker. And everybody in our. We have the type of neighborhood where everybody knows who he is, and so they just, like, literally, like, lucas, Lucas at my house, come get him. Like, that type. It's just a normal thing. Disappeared last night. We could not find him anywhere. I mean, like, we looked two hours driving around everywhere, calling everybody, people posting at nothing. I, like, went to bed last night. Just assume that's it, it's over. And, like, right up this morning, nothing. Kids crying on the way to school. Everybody sad and. Just got the text. He's home.

[Matt Norlander]

It just happened on the show.

[Gary Parish]

I don't know anything more than just, he's home. That's what the text I just got. I don't know how it happened. I don't know where he's been. But, like, I've been like, dude, like, rough night?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

Rough morning. I don't.

[Matt Norlander]

I did.

[Gary Parish]

I did. I don't. I didn't want to be here. So if before we started this pod, you're like, God, it seems like GP doesn't want to be here. I did. I'm, like, I'm a wreck. But now I feel good. Who. Who else? Back.

[Matt Norlander]

You got your Luca back. Can't say the same for Nico Harrison, but you got your Luca back.

[Gary Parish]

I. I like the mats.

[Matt Norlander]

Wow.

[Gary Parish]

I have spent the past, like, 15 hours feeling exactly like them.

[Matt Norlander]

Luca has come home.

[Gary Parish]

I thought I, I thought I. Luca forever. I'm very. I know what it's like. I know what, I know what it's like to be a Mavericks fan and I can't imagine how Mavericks fans would, would feel if they got a text this morning that said Luca is home. I wish, I wish for them they would get that text, but it sounds like I'm more fortunate.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, I'm, I'm thrilled for you that the end, that it happened in real time. That is, that is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful news. We're on a little bit of a time crunch here. As you can see, GP has had his grind city media, so he'll have his show soon enough. My dog, apparently sometime during the tournament she's. I don't know, we rescued her. We don't know how old she is. She's 13, 14, 15. At this, at this point she like tore her ACL. She's walking, she's walking on three legs. It's been like a thing for like three weeks. So home cannot run away, but it's just kind of gimping around here.

[Gary Parish]

We might need to tear it. Luca's acl.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. If you want, if you want stop gap, I've got some recommendations for you. But regardless, that is, that's your, that's your GP and Norlander dog update here on the Island College basketball podcast. Okay, Coach, that, that's awesome. That dog is home and man, that'll change your entire month around. So that's, that's huge. That's really happy for you. Coaching carousel stuff. We'll, we'll tour through the rest of the high majors here, but just some quick stats on it. Average age of a, of a head coach in a new place at a Power 5 school. 46 years old. The most experienced and the oldest of that group is Sean Miller, who's 56. Who comfortably the most Division 1 wins of any coach that's in a new spot. The youngest and least experienced is 35 year old Luke Laux, who's at Florida State. How about this GP? There have been 55, 55 of the seven. There are 79 schools right now that are in the Power 5 and Men's Division 1 college basketball. 55 of those schools in the past four years slash five cycles. So 21, 23, 4, 5. Five cycles slash four years. 55 of those 79 schools have changed. That's 69.6. Call it 70 overall. That's major, major, major change. I've got the numbers real quick. Here from the the Power 5 leagues, 15 of the 18 ACC schools have had a head coaching change in the past five cycles. The exceptions are Virginia Tech, Pitt and Clemson. In the SEC, it's 13 of the 16 that have changed. The only three that haven't. Well, let's do a quick trivia time right now. Three SEC schools haven't had a coaching change in the past five cycles. Which ones are they?

[Gary Parish]

Alabama.

[Matt Norlander]

Correct.

[Gary Parish]

Auburn.

[Matt Norlander]

Correct.

[Gary Parish]

Five cycles. Alabama, Auburn.

[Matt Norlander]

Elder statesman sec, Tennessee, Tennessee. Those are the only three schools not to have a change. The Big east and the Big 12. And the Big 10 is nine a piece. Now, those are different size programs. So like conferences. Biggie says 11 schools. The only schools in the in the past five cycles that haven't changed are UConn and Creighton. In the Big 12, it's nine out of 16. Kansas, Houston, Colorado, TCU, Arizona State, Baylor and UCF have all had the same coach for at least five or more years. A couple of these schools, by the way, they just barely hit the hit threshold there. And then in the Big Ten, nine have changed. The ones that haven't are Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin, ucla, Illinois, Oregon, Rutgers, Northwestern and Nebraska. So just to get a sense of how much change we have, I mean that is a lot of guys in new spots. We've had 14 in back to back years. We had 14 high major jobs. Switch over. So let's go, let's tour through this here. I'm gonna do it in alphabetical order. So we'll start with Florida State, which is Luke Laux, 35. He's very green. I mean, has never coached in college. He was, he's one of a number of guys who have gone from the NBA route to getting a head job. He was with the Kings the past three seasons. Fsu, it does not have a ton of nil. It did limit their candidate pool. He, he's an alum. He played for Leonard Hamilton from 2008 to 2012. It is a big wait and see here. The Seminoles had petered out in recent seasons under Hamilton and there's no telling if this will hit immediately, if Laox will need two, three years to get his bearings and see if he can work in this space. But among the biggest uncertainties GP is obviously Lao said fsu. Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

And I, I think this is something, you know, but I find it interesting. I don't, I don't know if everybody realizes that there was an emphasis in this hiring cycle. NBA assistants, Division 2 coaches, Division 1 assistant. In other words, like let's not pay a 3 million dollar buyout to get a coach. Let's not spend that money there because we need to spend it on players. And so that is among the reasons this hire makes sense. And then I think it's an easier sell than it otherwise might be given what just happened at byu. I mean this is the. Kevin Young got hired at BYU off of an NBA bench, you know, lack of college experience and did well 26 and 10, you know, sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament and has roster built in a way in advance of next season that I have BYU preseason top five. So if you're a Florida State fan, just look at that and, and believe that that can be you, because it can be. And again, not that I don't want to keep saying the same things over and over again, but the stuff that used to matter in hiring cycles doesn't really matter anymore. Like there a time as recently as five years ago where you'd be like, I don't know if you can hire an NBA assistant coach to run an ACC program. I mean this dude's never been to Peach Jam. Does he even can. Does he even know the difference between Boo Williams and indie elite? Like whatever. Right now it's just, it doesn't matter. If you've got money, you can roster build. If you've got money, you can. And you, you've got the structure in place, you can roster build. It's happening right now. They are making, they are buying players at BYU who I promise you never thought about attending school at BYU three years ago like it was not even on the radar. And now BYU is going to have a top five team in the country. You can do this anywhere with money. You give this guy money.

[Matt Norlander]

That's the problem is he's not unless something has changed. Not to say that they don't have any. They just FSU is not considered to be. That's the one big difference is Kevin Young got the BYU job and had more money than he could have even asked for. And, and that's not what Laos is walking into. So just for clarity for.

[Gary Parish]

Well, yeah. Well then let's. I can summarize this entire conversation that we're about to have until we're done with, with this. The guys who have a support system in place in terms of money to roster build will have a fighting chance to succeed. The guys who don't, will not. I don't care who they are, I don't care how good they are. If you are not set up to, to buy players and roster Build in a league like the ACC and especially the SEC, Big Ten and Big 12, you, you can't win. I don't care how good you are. So if, if he, I know the NIO hasn't been there at Florida State. If it gets there, he'll have a chance. If it doesn't, he won't. Period.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, or he just would have to, you know, he needs, needs to be just an elite, elite coach because some coaches can overcome certain deficits. That does happen. But generally speaking to what you're saying 100 let's, let's does have that. You know, Indiana to me as far as I can tell is going to be one of the 10 biggest budgets in college basketball. Darren DeVries is 50 years old. He gets the job. He's got 169, 68 record overall as a coach. He's one in three in the NCAA tournament. But boy did this happen fast. You know remember West Virginia and Indiana were both projected to be in the NCB tournament and West Virginia thought to be semi comfortably in like wasn't in that last team out. Second to last team out didn't happen. They both missed and then one school plucked the other's coach. Defries winds up going to Indiana. This happened really, really quickly. You know what's interesting is DeVries winds up being in Indiana. He was heavily looked at. He was the number two choice behind Micah Shrewsbury at Notre Dame a few years back. Micah got that job. Nevertheless, De Vries finds his way to that state regardless. He is a Midwest guy. There's a lot of fit to a lot of this. We'll see if, if he can be the guy to really consistently lift Indiana out of, out of the inconsistent roller coaster that has been on here for, for a long time. But you know IU picking him after he was just one year at West Virginia. I think there's, he's, he's been given a chance because the there is enough people that care enough that are. That are donating to the NIL collective and, and making sure that Indiana can again have a really big roster. He's obviously a different kind of guy from, from Mike Woodson and Devries did a wonderful job at Draco by the way. You look up in the three most recent coaches at Drake are now all now in the Big Ten. By the way Nico McCollum and DeVries are all now coaches in the Big Ten which I find to be pretty interesting. Your thoughts on IU getting Devries and you know just I guess just that broadly speaking. GP Obviously this is a fan base that is glued into the podcast and, and very, very invested here. Very interesting to see if this, if this hits big because Devries isn't a flashy name and not a big time personality, but he is considered a very, very good ball coach.

[Gary Parish]

That's the most important thing. And that's the reason why I do believe he'll be successful there. Obviously, success at Indiana is measured differently than it is at most places, but this is a guy who's got an incredible reputation as somebody who knows how to run a basketball program, knows how to run a practice, knows how to do the job on game day at Indiana. I don't have the money concerns that we might have somewhere else. Like at Indiana. They're going to give you the resources you need to succeed. They're going to. And then it's just up to you to do it. The previous two coaches couldn't get it done, I think for different reasons, but it's pretty clear neither of the two code. Previous two coaches could get it done. I, I think, I think the Vries can, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't because he has an incredible reputation and he'll have the resources and that's that, that's the, that's the combination that matters right now. Can you do the job? If given the resources, yes. Okay, then this will probably work. I believe in this. I think it'll work.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, it is now. We're now, what, three, four weeks removed from all this. But it was as this happened in real time. It was just fascinating. Selection Sunday comes and goes. Both those teams aren't even in. And then Indiana found de Vries within 12, 16 hours after that. They met that Monday.

[Gary Parish]

They found him. They found him before they found.

[Matt Norlander]

But I'm just saying, like, neither of those parties were expecting to be in that situation. And then it happened really, really, really quickly. Just. And West Virginia unexpectedly was in need of a new coach. We'll get to that in just a second. Again, we're doing this alphabetical order.

[Gary Parish]

The missing child is Lucia Blix, 9 years old.

[American Express Representative]

Please let her come back home safely tonight.

[Matt Norlander]

The kidnappers hummed it meticulously.

[Gary Parish]

If money is what it takes to.

[American Express Representative]

Get her back, we're gonna pay it. The secrets they hide. You can't talk about this. You can't write about it. Are the clues.

[Gary Parish]

The mother's hiding something. I know it.

[American Express Representative]

To find her, tell me where she is. The stolen girl. Tonight at 10 on Freeform and stream on Hulu.

[Matt Norlander]

McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of a Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether Flame Sauce. Now available with a Minecraft movie meal. I participate in McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters. Let's move down to Maryland, which has Buzz Williams. We'll get to the Willard stuff when we get to Villanova for the most part, but obviously one is the other here. Williams is 52. He has 373 wins, won 62% of his games in his career. He has a 12 and 11 NCAA tournament record as coach in New Orleans, Marquette, Virginia Tech and a M. He was rumored to be looking around last year's cycle, wound up staying at A M and then Maryland winds up opening up and gives him a reason to find a new place for another fresh start. From Maryland fans perspective GP right now they have a coach who is more accomplished than the one that just left for Villanova. So there's reason for optimism there. I will note that Buzz Williams never made a Sweet 16 at Texas a M and actually only has one Sweet 16 run in his past 11 seasons as a head coach. He's going to have a bigger budget to work with than Kevin Willard did. I think there's a wide range of outcomes here. I believe anything from Buzz is there and gone in three years to he spends although he doesn't have a track record of doing this. Maybe this will be the finally the job where he spends, you know, 10 plus years there. But if you're a Maryland fan like you gotta, you got a big name, a guy who has done some winning. But I think it's worth at least noting that it has been a while since he had consistent, you know, multiple deep runs in the tournament. But regardless, considering everyone that was out there and realistic for Maryland GP in that spot, you, you probably couldn't have gotten a coach with more wounds on the resume than Buzz.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, Kevin is obviously great. You, you can't win at Seton hall, win at Maryland and get the Villanova job unless you've got some substance to you like he's very good question. I ask it from honest place. I'm not even sure what the answer is, but if we were to poll 100 basketball people and just ask them, hey, just let's rank basketball coaches 1 through 50, who do you think would finish higher on that list? Kevin Willard or Buzz Williams? I don't know the answer.

[Matt Norlander]

I, I think that Buzz would would finish higher. Which isn't to say that Buzz is Like, so, so much better than Willard or whatever. It just. You asked the question. My guess, okay, Buzz would finish higher. He has a better career winning percentage, he's won more games, and Willard just is coming off the first week 16 of his career. So I think those factors would lead to that.

[Gary Parish]

Okay, so if I'm a Maryland fan, that's what I'm grabbing on to. Like you, you don't often lose a coach that you don't want to lose and then hire somebody that can reasonably described as more accomplished and better and all of that stuff. But that is perhaps what has happened here. And so if I'm a Maryland fan, that's what I'm focusing on. I know a lot of them are focusing on Buzz's track record of he'll get you good and then he'll bounce on you, and that is certainly what his career has featured. But this feels different than the other moves that he's made. Like, this feels like a move you don't make because you're running from Texas A M or you're trying to restart your clock. As much as it's Maryland, it's a. It's a great job. And oh, by the way, on the way out the door, the guy you're replacing all over everybody, and you don't think they're going to be motivated to set you up for success to prove to that, if nothing else, to prove to that guy you made a mistake thinking you couldn't win big here or that you needed or that, you know, you needed to leave to accomplish your goals. They're going to give Buzz everything he needs to be successful, and he's never not been successful. So, yeah, this is another one where I. I'd be surprised if it doesn't work. What's it going to be like in 10 years? I don't know. But what's it going to look like over the next five? I would suspect pretty good.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, big picture on this. Maryland fans have only experienced two Sweet 16s in the past two decades, and one of them was this year, and that was tainted, as we mentioned on the show in real time, by everything that was happening with, with Willard. And so now that you have Buzz Williams, you. You look and you say, okay, are we going to have a coach that gets us to, you know, multiple sweet 16s? Can we make a final 400? Buzz Williams? I think that is on the table, but there's no guarantee ultimately with the situation that Willard puts you in as a program. And again, we'll get to a little bit more of this once we get to the Villanova portion of the show. Did you get as good of a coach as you probably could have gotten in that circumstance? I think the answer is probably yes. It could have been worse. If you're Maryland, ultimately you get it done there. Let's keep it moving. Miami is next. Now we talked about this when it happened. There's something interesting after the fact here, though. Jay Lucas, 36. He, by the way, nada. Can you bring up this Wikipedia page? Just, just random. This is a coach and his picture on Wikipedia is him playing at Texas 15 years ago. Can we get an updated picture of Jay Lucas? He's like 21 years old in this picture. Let's go already. This just. You go to any of the other hirings that are in this cycle. Go to any of their Wikipedia pages because I checked them all for their career records. There's no, there's no one else as them playing college basketball. So that is reflective of the fact that he is the youngest hire of this cycle. But how about this GP he left Duke at the end of the regular season before the ACC tournament. There have been 55 coaching hirings this cycle. This year. There wasn't a single other coach that did this. Which isn't to say that it was the wrong decision. I'm just. And it's not to say that there was bad blood because there wasn't bad blood with him and Duke whatsoever. Duke wound up making the Final Four even though Lucas was the defensive coordinator on the team and everything. For the most part, like, you know, both sides handled it relatively well. But I just, it was just interesting to me after the fact that when Lucas did it, we thought, oh, might this be something that winds up happening elsewhere because of the portal and want to get ahead of it. It didn't. He was the only one that wound up doing it. Real quick, your thoughts on the Lucas hire. Just so you know, very healthy nil situation at Miami. I believe they've got north of say, 8 million or so. I'll have something on the site like Thursday about the $10 million NIL Club and the schools that are just shy of that. But I'm, I'm intrigued to see where this goes with Lucas. There's also a lot of smoke. Shelton Henderson is a Duke commit. A lot of smoke that he'll end up going and playing with Lucas at Miami. That hasn't been officially decided. I'm not reporting it's going to happen, but I'm just telling you for like a month now. People have been talking behind the scenes about he might wind up actually plucking a notable commit that was, that was is still scheduled to go to Duke.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

There's a lot of intrigue happening about Miami. We've talked about on the Top previously. But what's your in a nutshell, thoughts on, on Lucas down there and Coral Gables.

[Gary Parish]

I've been writing and talking about Jay since he was literally in high school. Have known him for a while. He's obviously an impressive young guy. I would just say this, you know, the same things I've said about other people. You can't find yourself working at all the places he's worked at unless you're an impressive guy. You know, when like John Caliperi wants to hire, hire you and then John Shire wants to hire you. Like you've got two of the best, you know, the biggest deals in the sport and they're like, I want this young person to work with me. That says something about you. He gets this opportunity at a relatively young age. I can't sit here and tell you how it's going to go. Like, we've all tried to go down that path before with all sorts of first time head coaches. You get them right sometimes, you get them wrong other times. But he checks all the boxes of if you're going to hire an assistant coach to run an ACC program, he checks all the boxes of somebody that you would have to seriously consider. As for the decision to leave Duke toward the end of the season, like we talked about in real time, if, if it was cool with Duke, cool with John, and everybody was like, I don't know why I'd get worked up about it. Ain't got nothing to do with me. But I did recognize in real time it was unusual and I didn't think it was the type of thing other coaches would do. And as we watched the NCAA tournament unfold, it's quite literally not anything any other coach did. Nobody else left their teams to start their new job. It's a little bit like Lane Kiffin leaving Alabama once upon a time as the offensive coordinator before the, I guess College Football Playoff. And I remember that being notable, but that felt like almost Nick wanted him to go, like, just get out of here and let us do this without you. But that's maybe the closest recent comparison. I don't know that it impacted anything in any real way, but it was unusual. Since you brought it up.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, let's keep it moving here. We talked Minnesota and NC State. Let's go to Texas. Sean Miller 56. Won 487 games his career, 71 overall, 22 and 13 in the NCAA tournament. Sort of an open secret that he was the top target for Texas. This was rumored about for weeks leading up to him actually getting the job. His departure at Xavier did leave a lot of people really pissed at that program, boosters, etc. He picked Xavier over South Carolina a few years ago when, you know, a year after he was fired from Arizona. And you know, he. I think there are people that will just never forgive Sean Miller. But it's his life doing what he wants to do.

[Gary Parish]

And he.

[Matt Norlander]

He's doing it because he believes at Texas he's got a better chance to more consistently. He's never made a Final Four. I know this means something, as it does to every coach, but like, he's gotten close a number of times. He thinks that Texas sets him up to be better equipped to win a national championship and to make Final Fours than Xavier does. That's his opinion. I'm not saying he's wrong. He might well be right. I still think, you know, if, if the other course was taken and Sean Miller chose to stay on at Xavier, when you look at how that school stands to benefit from revenue sharing, I, I think that he actually could have made a Final Four at Xavier. But regardless, he has left. He's gone to Texas. And Texas can say we hired a coach with the most experience and success at the Division 1 level as any more than anyone else in this year's cycle. Your thoughts on Miller and Austin?

[Gary Parish]

GP I think he's right that he will have a better chance to go to Final Fours and win national championships at Texas than he would at Xavier. I don't know how anybody could intelligently argue otherwise. Like, it's just, like, that's just true. That's just a true thing. I still understand why Xavier fans would be pissed, to use your word, and that administration would be disappointed because they did. I don't want to say throw him a life raft like he wasn't going to be homeless and then they prevented that, but they gave him a second chance at another really good job after he had already left them previously. And I don't blame him for leaving the first time. I want to be clear. I don't even blame him for leaving this time. It is his life. But do I understand why Xavier fans are upset? Yes. And personally, I would have had a hard time doing it. And I.

[Matt Norlander]

Here's the thing. I would.

[Gary Parish]

I would have. I would have gone through it logically the same way as Sean, is Texas a better job? Yes. Will I have a better opportunity to win big at Texas than Xavier? Yes. And then I said, but can I do this? Can I leave these people again like they. They did? They did give me an opportunity to come back here when, you know, they didn't have to and I didn't have a lot of great options. Can I really walk away from them again like this? Maybe I. And I'm not criticizing Sean because I understand it logically. Everything he think is true. Man, I had a hard time doing it. I might have still done it for the same reasons he did it, but it would have been hard. And I understand the frustration. Is Xavier.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. Scenario is crazy. I mean, he was rumored to have been the pick to be the Texas coach two years ago when Rodney Terry in Texas beat Xavier in the tournament in the sweet 16. And then as the fates would have it, Texas plays Xavier in the in the first four this year. And Sean Miller beats Rodney Terry. Rodney Terry winds up getting fired. And then lo and behold, just a couple days later, Miller gets that job. Keep it moving here. We'll. Texas A and M and Utah will do two and one here. Bucky McMillan, 41 years old. A and M needed a coach. They tried to get beard couldn't. McMillan has run this, like, press 94ft almost every possession. Super up tempo, has never lived outside the state of Alabama. His life. Now he's going to take this SEC job that is going to be fascinating. He was a high school coach for more than a decade and won more than 80% of his games. And when he was hired at Samford, Martin, Newton, that AD really, you know, went kind of outside the box and it paid off. They made the tournament a year ago and he's 99 and 52 as a D1 coach. So McMillan will be intriguing there. And then Alex Jensen, different kind of deal altogether. At Utah, he was the. He might have been the first hire of the cycle. GP He's 48, played at Utah, only coached in college for about four years. And as an assistant for his college coach, he coached under Majoris when Majoris was at St. Louis, he played for Majoris with the Utes and was on the team that made the title game in 98. But here you have obviously an obvious comparison. Jensen, longtime NBA assistant, he now is at Utah. He almost got the job, actually, when Craig Smith got it four years ago. And now you juxtapose that with. With everything that's happening with Kevin Young at byu, that'll be intriguing as well. So Thoughts on either Bucky at A M or Jensen at Utah.

[Gary Parish]

Obviously, I've less familiar with Alex because he's been working in the NBA, but it's just sort of the same sort of line of thinking at Florida State. Like, we don't have to pay a pie, pay a big buyout to get this guy. He has ties to our university. He should care about it in a way that can be meaningful. And as long as we set him up with nil, then, like, we've got a guy who's been working in professional basketball for a while. Let's see how it goes. I understand it logically. We'll see how it goes. Bucky. I like it. It. I like it. Like, let's see if this stuff can work in the sec. I like it.

[Matt Norlander]

I hope he, I hope he doesn't. Now maybe he's gonna have to change gp. I kind of hope he doesn't have to change too much. And I want to see if he, if he does truly run this system with high major players, how it works. He might have to tweak a little bit, but as an outside observer parish, I, I want to see him try and do this and see if it works. Because if it does work, A M will be a top 25 team, and it will be unlike any, any other group in the, in the country in that regard.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, like, I'm, I, I like the hire. I like the, I like the idea behind it. Like, hey, this guy is clearly operating in a different way. Let's bring him into this league filled with monsters and see if, you know, it's the same logic behind. Let's. This guy's killing high school basketball. Let's see if he. It works at the collegiate level. All right, it worked at that level. Now let's see if we can do. I like it. I don't know if it'll work, but, but I, when I, when I heard it might be headed this direction, I was intrigued by it.

[Matt Norlander]

We got four more high major hires to get to here. Let's go, Villanova. Kevin Willard, he's 50 years old, won 335 games in his career, 57 winning percentage at Iona, Seton hall and Maryland. He's 4 and 7 in the tournament. Coming off, as I mentioned before, the first sweet 16 of his career. We know what happened here. Generally speaking, I mean, this was as ugly a divorce at the high major level as we've seen in the past 10 or 15 years. Villanova pegged him, wanted him to be the guy. You know, there were a Few other people that they did look at. But ultimately it got to the point with Willard, oh, by the way, where he couldn't even. He couldn't even go back to Maryland. Like, it got so bad that even I and I have not talked in depth with Kevin about this yet. I and my Maryland fans will probably push back on this altogether. I actually think there is a very reasonable scenario in which he said all the stuff. He said he knew the Villanova offer was coming. He wasn't in love with the idea of leaving Maryland, but he wanted to say all this stuff put pressure on Maryland and maybe get more of what he wanted. And then it got so bad so quick that the stuff that he was kind of trying to leverage, it became a situation where, like, you can't go back anyway, man. Like, you have spoiled the batch entirely. And I don't. I'm not saying I believe it, but from there, get the hell out of here. Like, we don't even want you anymore. This whole thing that happened spoiled a sweet 16 run. Derek Queen, the crab five. Now there's this weird attachment to it. And now he goes to Villanova, Big east guy. I can see him succeeding there. I absolutely can. And for Nova, this is a key. This is a key moment. You are bringing you the Neptune hire Jay Wright wanted. Kyle. Neptune. It did not work. It was a massive failure. Now Willard needs to be the guy that keeps Villanova in that, you know, Nova was a top five program for the final 10 years under Jay Wright. I'm not saying it has to be at that level, but Villanova wants, slash, demands, expects top 15 status in the sport. Well, now it's on Willard Schiller's GP to do that.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, like, I think you've got it. You've got it right? I. I believe that he was intrigued by Villanova. Might have been leaning toward going to Villanova. Might have thought, deep down, I'm probably going to do it, but wasn't sure. And then I think the decision got made for him. I think I. I think he tried to negotiate publicly, put pressure on his school, and he thought it would work. And it just, it. Like I've talked about before, it should be a lesson for every coach going forward. It will not work. Don't try to negotiate publicly. It. Your fans will turn on you. Even if everything you're saying is logical, they won't hear it the way you're saying it. And he got himself in a real mess. And then I don't really think had a. I mean, I guess he had a choice, but it wasn't a real choice. It became clear you got to get it. You got to get out of Maryland. You can't go back. There's no going back now. I don't love the vibes going into it. It just feels weird. But that can all be fixed with one transfer portal class.

[Matt Norlander]

It can. And Nova's not hurting. I mean, it's not. It's not. Doesn't have actually. I think if Nova needed $10 million, it could get it. But it's. That's not. But it's. It's in a very healthy place. We'll see where it can go and we'll see if he can bring Rodney Rice with them. Will it. That is up to. Up to Nova. A few more here. Virginia Rhino, 50 years old. He was pegged as the candidate here long before it officially came open. He has ties to the school his father, Dave Odom, obviously most famously connected with Wake Forest. But he was an assistant at Virginia when Ryan was growing up. He was uva's guy by mid February. And so this was kind of a fait accompli. This feels like a very good. This feels like a. Even though he's not a Charlottesville neighbor, it feels like a nico Medved, Ben McCollum type of fit. I actually like it a lot here. He previously was at umbc. It is obviously adds to the story all the more that the fact that the guy who pulled off the first ever 16 over 1 winds up coaching both of those programs and goes to Virginia. He also was at Utah State, did a really good job at vc. Now he winds up at Virginia. Yeah, if this goes really well, Virginia fans, if this goes really well, like he's Odom's 50. If it goes really well, you might have a coach here at your program for as long as Tony Bennett was. Was with you in Charlottesville for 15 years.

[Gary Parish]

This is one I perhaps should have thrown at the top when I mentioned I don't know if these things will work. But at NC State, the obvious insensible thing to do was Will Wade at Minnesota. Nico, I think at Virginia, same thing like Ryan Odom's the guy. We'll see if it works. But this is who you should have hired. This is so obvious for a lot of different reasons. This is the right guy for this job in this moment.

[Matt Norlander]

Also importantly, a genuinely huge Dave Matthews Band fan from Charlottesville has saw the band back in the day when they played frat houses, which I think is really, really cool. So. So he's got that connection as well. Two more West Virginia, Ross Hodge, 44 years old, counting his juco days, Hodges 192 and 48. That's an 80 win rate. He got the job because fr. Frankly, Ren Baker knew Ben McCollum couldn't convince Ben McCollum to take West Virginia over Iowa. Hodge was, was in there relatively from the get go. Once they lost De Vries the way they did, I mean the, you know, Baker found himself in a situation where he had to hide. He's had, you know, multi, three, four coaches. If you include Huggins, it's just way more turnover than you want. I do think this is a good long term fit. For those who are not all too aware like Hodge has he turned down multiple years in a row when he was an assistant for Grant McCaslin at North Texas. Like he turned down really big salaries to be high major associate head coach situation because his, his defensive reputation is elite. So I do think that if, if, if this fit is good, Hodge could have a long term future in Morgantown. There he's not that well known. It's not a huge name, I get that. But this one does make plenty of sense to me. He's 44. We'll see if it can work. West Virginia GP obviously quite clearly, quite clearly put into a spot that it didn't want to be in. But all told, like, I do genuinely believe this, like, they could have wound up with the worst coach than Ross. Ross is a good coach. Let's see if he can handle making the jump from North Texas down over to the Big 12.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, this is the type of hire when, if you're a West Virginia fan and you hear about it, your first reaction might be who? Yeah, who, who did we just hire? And that's just the nature of it. Like, like, who is Grant McCann? I say this respectfully. You know, I love Grant. But like, who is Grant McCaslin before he gets, you know, Tech hires? It's probably a similar feeling. Like, what, what? Well now who is he? Like, just went to an elite eight, coached the Big 12 player of the year has got a top 10 roster in place for next season. Who's Grant McCastle now? A star, like a rising star in the profession. Who was he when Texas Tech hired him? He was more or less Ross Hodge. That's not apples to apples, but you get the sentiment. And so if you're West Virginia, you're just hoping you've, you've hired the next one of those guys.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, last time, Major. And then we'll do a quick mid major and then GP's got to go do his show. Xavier Richard Patino takes over for Sean Miller. He's 42 years old, has won 57 of the games in his career, has 247 wins, folks. Rich Patino, if you were not aware, has been a head coach since 2012. FIU, Minnesota, New Mexico, and now he gets the X job. He's 2 and 4 in the NCAA tournament. Was really good the past two seasons. 53 wins with the Lobos. They're very different personality than Miller. It's going to be really awesome to have two Patinos in the same league. Both father and son. Don't blanch at that whatsoever. Really cool. Patino was connected to more jobs than anyone this cycle. Virginia did look into him. Villanova looked into him. West Virginia looked into him. VCU looked into him. And when I say looked into him, all those places gave him serious, serious looks. Ultimately, Xavier landed at a spot where I think he was most comfortable going to. Obviously familiar with that part of the country, not that far from Louisville in general and where his father was for a long time. He spent time in that greater area. This could be a lot of fun. Patino has done a solid job. We'll see if how we can adjust back to the high major level. New Mexico was Mountain west, so not quite that. At Minnesota he was good, not great and it didn't end well there. But Xavier gets, gets a guy who will be as quotable as anything and I, I look forward to seeing how he adapts there and, and the Rick versus Richard dynamic in the Big East.

[Gary Parish]

As I was reading through your coaching carousel tracker, you noted in the Xavier piece that you were a little surprised they didn't rehire Chris Mack. And I gather the, I gather the explanation is we ain't doing that again.

[Matt Norlander]

Like, you know the way that Sean, this is my read. The way that Sean Miller left and the sour taste that left also played a factor in Mac not getting that job. He was obviously seriously considered before they went with Patino.

[Gary Parish]

Here's what I would say if you thought Chris Mack was the best guy for the job, but you didn't want to, quote, do that again. I think that was a mistake. I don't think he would have left you again. That's home for him. I don't think Chris Mack, Sean's relationship with Xavier is very different than Chris's relationship with Xavier. I think you could have rehired Chris Mack and he would have never left you again. And so I 100% agree. Right. And so I don't. Logically, that doesn't make sense to me. We're not gonna hire, we're not gonna hire Chris Mack because we don't want to go down that path again. If you don't want to hire Chris Mack because you don't think he's the guy or because you hate him or you think he's lost his whatever it is, that's fine. But if you go, man, wouldn't it be awesome to have Chris Mack back? He was amazing here. We can have him. But I'm scared he'll leave us again. Just like Sean. I think you lost yourself on the way to that decision making, through that decision making process. Because once you got to the point where he'll leave us again, I think you could have said, no, he won't. I don't believe that he will. Let's hire him. That's got nothing to do with Richard. I just think if they wanted to hire Chris Mack but didn't do it because they were scared of him leaving, they, they, they messed up. I don't think he would have ever left again.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, they're two different things. I agree it's got nothing to do with Richard whatsoever. But I do think that played a factor there. And I think if you had gone to Chris Mack and said we it's going to be a 50 million dollar buyout for you to leave, he would have signed it regardless. Which isn't to say that Patina won't be better than Mac would have been regardless. Got a good team at Charleston and all that good stuff. But yeah, that was, he was. Mac was seen as the guy that was the favorite when it opened or even in advance of it opening. And, and Patino winds up getting it. Hey, GP real quick because I know you got your Memphis show, but I don't want to give short, I don't want to give short shrift to the mid majors. So if you are good with it, I'm good with it. If you need to bounce off and I'll just tour through for five minutes solo and I'll riff on the mid major stuff. I just don't want to end the show abruptly and not at least I got this. So you let me know like if you got a bounce or whatever. We can wrap it here with your thoughts on the high majors. But I don't want to not talk about these guys after saying that I went to see.

[Gary Parish]

I understand that we're in a time crunch because of my schedule. So that probably is the most practical thing to do. So I'm going to need you to handle Devin Downey and Huck and Lauren Allen.

[Matt Norlander]

I don't. I will quasi do it. I don't do the shouts when, when you aren't on the show because that's, that's your thing regardless. But I appreciate you. I'm so thrilled that your dog is back. That is, that is genuinely amazing news. And you're gonna be walking on like.

[Gary Parish]

It just changed my life.

[Matt Norlander]

Like, yes.

[Gary Parish]

Like, I've been sad. Like, sad. Like went to bed sad, woke up sad. Just sad. So like, I feel great now.

[Matt Norlander]

No, that's you.

[Gary Parish]

Hey, hey. Talk about, talk about, talk about Alcorn State and Arkansas State and I'll. And, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about again.

[Matt Norlander]

We'll talk again next week. GP we got more coming for folks and all.

[Gary Parish]

Handle that. And if, if anybody wants to hear a breakdown of why Santi Aldama can't get an inbound play in five second call. A five second call with the game on the line.

[Matt Norlander]

Hey, hey. Listen, not that I'm not willing to listen to it, but save that energy. I want to save it for your show. Just, just let it all out. GP Grind City Media. You can watch it momentarily. Find it after the fact. All right, buddy. Appreciate you. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for 15amonth plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Gary Parish]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this episode is brought.

[Matt Norlander]

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[Matt Norlander]

All right, let's get to the mid major situations here. Appreciate everyone sticking around near the end here. I want to at least give some love to, to the folks that you know Just the notable ones here. Why not? Before I get to the coaches and new spots at mid majors, let me talk about the one that is leaving a mid major to be the coach in waiting. So Alan Huss is the coach at High Point or was the coach at High Point. He has agreed and is now the associate head coach at Creighton where he previously worked under Greg McDermott. He is going to be the next of the Creighton Blue Jays Whenever McDermott decides to step away. There is no definitive timeline on this, but I was told essentially that Hus, you know, he really, really liked High Point and he was also a candidate at a number of the spots that we've talked about. He wasn't going to leave High Point to indefinitely be the associate head coach slash coach in waiting at Creighton. I think the absolute maximum is three years, but I don't even think that. I think McDermott will be in the next one or two seasons. McDermott's just 60. He's got a really good thing rolling there. But you want to set up the program. Huss is an alum. He played at Creighton. We haven't seen too many situations like this before. But good on McDermott for getting this in line and for Hus for agreeing to do it. That will be. That will be intriguing. Not easy to step away from a job high points like the best job in that league. And Huss was able to, I guess in part help get his guy promoted there to be the, the head coach once he left. But intriguing situation in Omaha. So we have, we haven't. We already know who will be the next coach of the Blue Jays. We just don't know when that will happen. Some other notable ones, Campbell and Columbia have coaches that just won a national championship. Kevin Hovdi is now the coach at Columbia. He was on staff at Florida, previously was an assistant there, by the way, under Kyle Smith and then Campbell. This is good news for the pod. I was hoping GP would be on so we could talk about this a little bit more, but alas, he had the bounce. John Andrezik is a former Florida assistant and now the coach at Campbell. I've been told we're getting Fighting Camel shirts. So for all the years we've done this, this pod, we have not, we have not had any Campbell gear. And I think it's only appropriate that eventually we. We factor that in. So be interesting to see how those guys do. And also Florida, Todd golden having to replace some guys on his staff. I reported this on Tuesday. Jonathan Sapphire who has been with golden for as long as Golden's been a head coach. He was an assistant with them at San Francisco. Both went to Florida. He was the director of analytics and strategy. He's now going to be an assistant. And then Dave Klatsky who is actually. Follow me here. Dave Klatsky is the brother in law of Kevin Hovney. He was the coach at NYU. He won like 85% of his games the past three years. Klatsky and golden have known each other for 10 plus years. Going back to when golden was also an assistant under Kyle Smith at Columbia. And Golden's father and Klatsky's father by coincidence they both went to college together at Emory I think is what it was. So there were some connections there and that's how Golden's filling out his staff. Let's get to other head coaches at the mid major level of note. We have an all time March Madness dude who is now running a college program. Ali Farouk Minesh. You can't be serious with that shot. You can't be serious with that hire though. He was promoted from within after Nico Medved got the Minnesota job which was the obvious move. Farooq Manesh has truly paid his dues. Considered a very, very good coach and now he gets to run his own program. Excited for that also. It's just a good thing for college basketball that an all time March Madness guy is now running a program. It's just, it just, it, it uplifts the sport ever so slightly to have to have those kind of guys. You know, Bryce Drew being another one obviously for a number of years and he is, he is still obviously running things at Grand Canyon there. I like the fact that we have March Madness heroes that go on into the coaching profession and wind up running teams. That's really, really cool thing. Drake. I mentioned before how they've got their three previous coaches all now coaching the Big Ten. So who's running Drake now? Eric Henderson by way of South Dakota State. Go Jackrabbits. He takes over at Drake. I actually think that is a very, very good hire. They've got a, they've got a healthy chance of keeping that thing rolling in the Missouri Valley. And between Drake and then mentioned Creighton before Murray State made a hire. Ryan Miller, it comes in from Creighton. Him leaving allowed Hus to join the staff there. All this stuff kind of gets interconnected overall. So we'll see between Drake, Murray State or anyone else which, which, which teams wound up wind up, you know, being big factors in the Missouri Valley. Moving forward, we had a notable retirement. Fran Dunphy, 76 years old, retired at LaSalle. Dump is just a tremendous human. And Darius Nichols from Radford got that job, but at least wanted to give it, uh, a hat tip to Dumpy, who I've known for a long time. Great guy to talk to and he has. I think I might have mentioned this on the pod some years ago. I almost wrote this story and for whatever reason, just didn't. But whatever, you know, he, he almost never was a coach. He, he was a good player back in his day and, and I might have had something, actually, now that I say this, I might have had something on the site about it like seven, eight, nine years ago. But I love the idea of, you know, the coaches who almost took the other path, like didn't get into coaching. There's a number of them even like right now where that's, where that's the case. Like Magpie, who's now the coach of Fordham, he was in real estate and now, you know, he just made the pivot into, into college coaching. And lo and behold, he goes from UC Riverside to getting the Fordham job this cycle. Fran Dunphy was a bartender back in the 70s and thought he was just gonna. I might be overstating it slightly, but I've had this conversation with him before. He thought he was going to live out his life maybe being a teacher, tending bar, doing all this, and kind of got into coaching on, if not a lark, just kind of semi reluctantly and, and thank God he did because, you know, he's a legend in Philadelphia basketball. He got on, I think he started at, he started at Army. He might have started at army, left coaching and then got into high school teaching, attending bar. And then eventually, you know, he goes to LaSalle. He's an assistant there in the late 70s. He's an assistant at American. He goes to Penn. Congrats to a great career Dump. The game will miss you. But yes, truly, like you talk about a guy in the city of Philadelphia who is a major sports figure, you're bigger than you might even realize. I'm not even just talking college basketball, just what this, what basketball means to that city. And Dump, with all his time there at Penn, obviously at Temple and then finishing up at LaSalle, I had to note his retirement there. A couple others of note, New Mexico hired Eric Olin to replace Rich Patino. Olin was at UC San Diego. UC San Diego was in his first year of tournament eligibility and was one of the best mid majors in the country and and really gave Michigan a scare in that first round game that that 125 matchup there. So Olin takes over in New Mexico. The interesting about the New Mexico job is Olin's actually a pretty solid hire overall. Unfortunately for New Mexico, it is going to be involved in a Mountain west here that is not like they're the Mountain west is losing some of its best programs to the reform PAC 12 which is coming in 2026. And so now you know, there's just the league is not set up to be as strong with the schools that it will be restructuring with immense basketball moving forward than what it was. I'm interested to see if New Mexico as a result can be a school that can dominate in that league and establish itself as almost an annual participant in the NC Tournament as a result of that will be intriguing. The fan base is incredible. That venue is awesome. There's so much support in Albuquerque for the Lobos, but the conference structure around it is not an ideal situation there and that's ultimately why like Patino really liked coaching there. Just you know, get all these high majors looking at you. You kind of got to go the trivia time that I did not ask GP on the show that I said I would trivia time. Where's Fran McCaffrey now coaching? The answer is Penn. He is he has gone back to to his alma mater and credit to McCaffrey, you know he spent 15 years at Iowa previous to that was at Siena and there's plenty of money but still wants to be involved in the game. So kind of going back to his roots so to speak and given the Ivy a good boost in the process there. We'll see how long he winds up coaching in Penn. But yeah, he wanted to be involved, got it done and that is certainly quite intriguing on that on that front. Just a Couple more here. St. Francis made the tournament this year. We talked about that on the show. Rob Krimmel was the coach there. This is just a bummer. St. Francis is leaving Division 1 and it probably is not going to be the only one. So how about that? Just like we had with Hartford four years ago. Hartford under John Gallagher made the bubble tournament and then as the story went like they got home and I think it was the day after they got home the athletic director and or president of Hartford, like they they bring in Gallagher and they tell him hey we're we're trying. We're going to D3. And there was a huge uproar over it. Ultimately it didn't to any kind of change, even though there was like real resistance at trying to stop that. Hartford is, has Transitioned to Division 3 and now St. Francis, the Red Flash, one of the best monikers in all of D1. Well, it won't be D1 that much longer. They are going to transition to D3 for reasons I detailed. I bring this up because I saw St. Francis win the auto bid out of the NAC. They won at Central Connecticut State back in, in mid March. And Criminal, he's the coach who reluctantly agreed to play it at St. Francis, you know, as a teenager and then built his entire life there. He never left. Well, he did retire. He retired and now that program is transitioning to D3, which is, which is a bummer after such a big season. But because of the financial realities that are impending here, we are just going to have more schools that transition out of D1, which on an individual basis is obviously a downer in the big picture. If you've listened to the show for a while, you're all too aware of the fact that GP and I agree D1 is just too big. Like we can disagree on what size D1 should be. To me, you know, 310, 315 teams is fine. We're at 364. I guess we're now shrinking down to 363. So in the big picture, like losing some D1 teams is probably healthier for the enterprise, but it is unfortunate for the schools as they happen on, on a case by case basis. Two more notable mid major hirings. UNLV has Josh Passner as its coach. And what's it, what's interesting to me about that one is I think that he's got a chance to do well there. I really do. But Pastner had called me, I want to say like the first week of February just to just check in. This is just who Josh is. Very, very nice human being. See how everyone was doing? You know, Josh was doing stuff on ESPN and he did stuff for NBC and Peacock. So he was, he was, was enjoying that life. But he was basically calling to check in and say like I'm, I am eager to kind of get back in. Like I do want to be a head coach again and I wonder if this cycle could be hit. And so we got to talking about jobs that were expected to open and we went through a few of them and then he was like, you know what one I would really like? He's like, do you think UNLV would open? And I said, I do expect it to open. Yes. He's like, man, I really, really would like unlv. I said, okay, well, yeah, that would be an incredible opportunity. I was like, like, do you think you can get. He's like, I don't know. I was like, well, you might, you might have a chance. Like, you know, you've got as good of a track record probably as anyone they might be considering. And lo and behold, this dude winds up getting the UNLV job. So happy for Josh and interested to see again UNLV kind of in that New Mexico kind of situation. And we keep waiting for UNLV to just it's not going to be what it was under Tarko. Not saying that, but we're waiting for it to have year over year, consistency and relevancy. We'll see if pastors that guy. And then VCU is the final one of note. Obviously a very, very good mid major job, one of the best home environments in the entire country. VCU's athletic director was really, I mean really going after Richard Pitino and was hoping to get a yes, ultimately Patino had high major offers. You got to take him if you like the situation there. He did. And so Phil Martelli Jr. Was his 1B to the Patino being 1A. And this is just the nature of what VCU is. It is kind of unlike any other job in the sport in that elite mid major job, incredible home environment, such a great track record of producing great coaches, but because of that has to brace for turnover on a cadence that's almost unlike any other job situation in the country. Now because of that, Ed McLaughlin, the, the athletic director there has a contract situation. Every coach that signs at VCU has to agree to come back and play a road game for their new team at the Siegel Center. Now apparently there's some like scheduling stuff like Mike Rhodes, who's now at Penn State, apparently, like they're having issues getting that done. And if you don't do it like you pay a hefty fine. 500, 000, maybe a million or so. And usually the coaches and schools don't want to do that. We'll see if Penn State gets it done or not. But we will have.

[Gary Parish]

We will.

[Matt Norlander]

And Virginia played at VCU in the past 10, 12 years? I believe so. It's happened before. But Ryan Odom will be returning at some point in the next one or two seasons. He will bring his Virginia Cavaliers back to play the VCU Rams. We've seen this plenty of times before. Will Wade had a ton of fun with it when he left to Go to lsu. So that is to any athletic directors that have stuck around more than an hour into a coaching carousel podcast especially at the minimajor level you need to do this like it wanted is good for the sport in general to force the coaches that leave. Understandably so for a bigger job job. It brings more intrigue, interest. You know you can have a little bit of fun with it it. If you're gonna sign a new coach, he's got to agree like as I understand it with VCU and and the AD there Ed, it is non negotiable. You will not be the coach at VCU if you do not sign this contract that includes the specific clause. If you if and when you leave us you have to make one return game back. It is part of the deal there and I would advise guys every other athletic director do this. It would be a benefit to college basketball overall. Any fan listening would clearly agree. Just the pure nature of it. It's, it's. It's another reason to bring more attention in the non conference in November or December to college basketball and and I hope that we continue to see more of it across the board. That's our coaching carousel recap show. Appreciate everyone for sticking around there. That's the. The mid majors of no. Oh and by the way I think literally since we started the show, Charlie Ward. Yes, Charlie Ward. And if you're listening and you're young, you don't know who Charlie Ward is. Kids, google Charlie Ward please. He is set to be the next coach at Florida A M which I mean, which I think means. I think means we're down to one job opening left. I'm just checking this real quick in real time. I think with A M closing. Charlie Ward coaching college hoops. Love to see it. I think UC Riverside is now the only job that is still open that in mind. I have, I put it as a non zero chance that we will have a retirement between now and the start of next season. I don't know if I'd have it at better than 50 chance but I'm certainly bracing for it. Just after what we've seen over the past few years. Nothing would surprise me overall. And yeah, to circle back to the top of the show, 55 out of 79 coaches have changed at the high major level as it's currently constituted in the past five cycles. That's a lot of turnover and I don't know if the sport is going to slow on that end in the years to come with more money being injected. And again I'LL have a column go up. I think it'll go up Thursday on just the money every year. And whether the house settlement gets this under control remains to be seen. Cheating could be coming back in a big way, folks. Yeah, this, there are a lot of people that believe. I was talking to one high major assistant a couple days ago and they, they were basically saying, I don't think I even. This is a person who up until like two years ago has never been a head coach, had aspirations of being a head coach and understood that if it was going to happen for me, like I'm going to have to take a just okay, mid major, low major job. And now the same person is like, I don't think I want to do this. Like, like if I can be high major assistant make. And generally speaking, you know, if you're a high major assistant, depending on if you're the number one assistant, number two assistant, you can make anywhere from 250 to a million. Just depends if I can make good money. Why do I want to put myself in that kind of position? What the point that he moved toward was. This is feeling like we are getting closer to the NBA and that's not a good thing. You know, you saw, you know, the way that Memphis fired its coach. Michael Balone gets canned two weeks before the start of the playoffs. And he was saying it feels like in a lot of spots coaches might really start to be on like three year plans. Like, or nothing guaranteed beyond two or three years. I hope that's not the case. But given the amount of money that's invested, think about it this way. Think about how many programs right now are dealing with budgets north of 6 million, 7 million, $8 million. There are some that have well over $10 million. That money is coming from super rich people. It's amazing how many super rich people there are that are willing just to give all this money. By the way, and this is college basketball. This isn't even getting into the college football side of it. But those people while, well, historically speaking there have been some that have been willing to continue to do this in the effort of winning and relevancy and all that people have to lose. It's a zero sum game. Someone has to win, someone has to lose. And when you have this much money, more than ever before being injected in like results are to be expected. And when they don't happen, it can hasten change all the more. It's why we've had 59 jobs at the power of the five level alone. Swap over the past four years and why we should probably anticipate and expect double digit changes minimally at the Power 5 level moving forward here. We had 14 this year. We had 14 the year before. Some of these have been obviously retirements of some pretty prominent faces there. But as we, as we talk coaching swaps here in college hoops, yeah it is. It's going to be interesting to see how the game adapts and how which coaches find success. I look at this list of 2025 coaching hirings and I see a lot of names that to me on the surface make a lot of sense. I see a lot of guys that I can easily and I mean this, I can easily see so many of these guys finding real success over the next three, four, five, six, seven, eight years. But history tells you this otherwise and the math will math and some of these hirings will not work out. Some of them will not work out to the level where some of the coaches that we talked about on Today's show by 2029 are going to have a different coach. Now some of them might not work out to this point too. Some coaches just might be so good they find themselves in a new situation altogether. Some actually might be so good that they they evolve on to the next gig altogether. But pretty interesting crop overall and we'll see where we go from here as we wrap the show. And this was a long one there couple couple notes. One I we're going to try and get a mailbag in soon, maybe even next week, the week after at the latest. At the latest. But I think we're trying to do a mailbag show. It's been I think since December so we'll try and get that done. We have plenty in our inbox. But as always shout to CBS gmail.com 2. I want to do a show with GP I love how I'm talking this out on real time to the audience here. GP and I've talked a little bit about it but I want to like dive into his full on ranking. So if maybe we try and do that next week as well, just look at who he's got where and just get a quick assessment in the here and now the transfer portal guys like we'll probably do another one on that. The portal closes in a week and then there's still going to be commitments that happen through the end of April. So maybe we do a different show on that as well. And then longtime listeners of the show know that every few years, kind of Doctor who regeneration style, I have swapped out the intro music to the podcast. So we will have new music coming. It wasn't this show because we couldn't get it done in time but but yes is it is coming. It will be on the next show and there will be a. There'll be a very special. There'll be a very special intro when on that. On that show. So this is just the heads up brace for it. It has already been taped at this point and it was a lot of fun. So been it's something that I've been trying to do for a while now. Something we got cleared to do dating back to the start of the season but I didn't want to switch it in the middle of the season. So be on the lookout for that next week and we might even put a little bonus special thing on YouTube. Thank you to everyone for listening. I can't believe this is an hour 15. Yeah, nada's got the thing. See you. Appreciate everyone. Have a great rest of your week. My kids are home on spring break so we're going to do some some day trips over the next couple of days. So barring anything major. Major. Our next podcast episode will be coming next week. I think we're gonna give you two shows there rate and review subscribe on YouTube and we will talk to you next week. Thanks so much. Take care.

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[Gary Parish]

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