Gary Parish (3:33)

Good morning. Good to see you. GP it is Thursday. Everyone listening. Hello. I'm coming to you from New York. I'll be at Nick Pacers later on Thursday night and had an interview late last night in the city. So, so apologies on slightly different audio here. I, so I, I think I cashed in last night at about 10 minutes to midnight. You know, the Thunder just destroyed Minnesota. I taped an HQ hit at 10:30 and the HQ hit was. All right, let's talk. Give us a couple of teams that you thought were the winners, a couple teams that you thought were the losers at the NBA draft deadline. And then, and then give me an early, give us an early rankings of some teams. And that was something to go through. Anyway, when I did that, when I did that, I was like, okay, who do I want to like? Like what teams really were the losers here, you know, And I actually don't think there were. I frankly, I don't think there were a ton. But I was like, you know what, I really think that LeBaron Filon should have stayed in college. I'm just going to, I'm just going to mention Alabama because without him, I don't think they're a top 20 team. And I thought he had such a tremendous chance to return to college and be like a real big pop guy as A sophomore but he's gone so I'll just, you know, he made this decision public, you know, 10 days ago or whatever. I'm just going to mention him. So I do I take that hit. Presumably it was supposed to run overnight. I go to bed at 10. I probably closed all social media by 11:30, 11:35. I wake up to this which is just, just. And then I see, I'm seeing. I guess clearly it came to be because the nil collective yay Alabama was the one that broke the news right up against the deadline. This is GP this to me ranks as one of the three or four most significant decisions either way of the entire cycle. You know, not just the shock value and the surprise factor there. That's huge. But you know they bring back Aiden Holloway obviously at Alabama and that was, and that was a big decision to keep him around. I don't think there was a ton of, you know, anticipation would go the other way. But Holloway and Phylon specifically playing together. To me you got Latrell right sell back as well. They don't have you know, a five star freshman coming in the way they have in recent seasons. And the transfer in you know, portal, it kind of remains to be seen how impactful those guys are. Bama has been involved with Desmond Claude. It's really maybe I would this is a guess on my behalf. Phylon coming back tells me that Claude will not wind up at Alabama. But I do think that this now gets Bama firmly into the top 25 conversation and don't yet know how this came about. This is not typical. You rarely see a player publicly declare yeah I'm gone, they know it, that's the deal and then turn around 11th hour and change his mind. I think it, it stands the logic two big reasons why. One, there clearly was a, a decent nil bag waiting for him. Now as it's been explained to me GP and I don't want to hog up too much Mike here, I'll send it right back to you in a second. It's not like Bama is absolutely flush with cash like this isn't this from in my conversations and talking around the sport and frankly even talking to Nate Oates about this, this is not a program that would rank in your top 1012 overall and I'll money. So it's, it's not like I think Bama went and said here we got 3 million for you. LeBaron filing. I don't think that happened. But, but having some a good payday waiting for him and clearly the feedback that had been coming back over the past three, four, five days must have been big enough to say, hey, you know, do we really have any assurances that you'll even go first? 10 picks of the second round? Will you have a multi year deal waiting for you? Well, if not, you know, why don't you go back and be the star guard on an Alabama team and maybe jump your stock. So huge boost, good for college hoops by the way. We're getting into a number of these guys, but the SEC loaded up on star power with a lot of these decisions that came down on Wednesday.

Matt Norlander (7:36)

Yeah, I think reality just set in on, on some level. And like LeBaron fine line could have reasonably stayed in the 2025 NBA draft like he was in the top 30 on Cal Boone's big board. I don't know that he would have been selected in the first round, but he would have been picked somewhere and he would have been given a contract of some sort. But would it have been the first round or the second round? Would it have been a legitimate NBA rookie contract or a two way deal, one year, 500 something thousand dollars like all of this was on the table for him. And I think when you really get actually down to the deadline and path A, the path you prefer, which is the NBA draft is just filled with uncertainty, just filled with like, buddy, you don't know where you'll get picked. You don't know how much you'll make you ready for this. You don't know where you'll live. You don't know who's going to coach you. You don't know who your teammates are going to be. You don't know nothing. That's, that's option A or come back, be a starter on a preseason top 20 team trying to win an SEC championship and we will prop we will be able to give you more money than what is, what is possible you would have to settle for if you remained in the NBA draft. Do you want this shirt? Here's, here's option B. Everything is exactly like you know what it is. You know where you'll live, you know who your coach is, you know how much you're making, you know you'll be one of the best players, perhaps the best player on your team. There's a lot of stuff here and you, you can grab it now or go walk through that door and see what happens. To me, this is very sensible and I don't get too caught up on. Earlier this month at the combine he said, I'M all in on the draft. Because people can say whatever they want to say when it's not actually decision time. But late last night, it got to be decision time. And with, I believe, 29 minutes, 29 minutes before the deadline, the decision was made, announced by the collective. And it makes all the sense in the world to me. I'm never, or at least I'm never again, because I used to do this type of stuff when I was younger. Boy. When I was in my 20s, early 30s, I knew what everybody should do with their careers. Everybody just name a person. I could tell you exactly what they.

Gary Parish (9:54)

Let's bring that GP back, by the way.

Matt Norlander (9:56)

No, it is true. You get wiser as you get older.

Gary Parish (10:00)

And you realize maturity, personal evolution, they're overrated. I need hot take GP coming back with a 4 series. Hey, that here and there.

Matt Norlander (10:07)

Not everybody in our profession goes down this path. Some just stay right where they are forever. But I have grown to a point, I think, where reasonable people can have different opinions about what everybody should do. And it's his life, it's his career. I would not criticize him and I won't criticize anybody else. Although I will ask questions and we'll discuss them. But this, this makes the most sense to me. This is the way I always try to frame it. If Lebaron Filon were my son and he came to me and we talked through all of the options, what would I have advised him to do? I would have first said, son, you do what's what. This is your decision. And I don't want this ever coming back on me. So I'm just here to help you through the process. I am not here to decide for you. This is your decision. That's actually the same conversation I had with my oldest son when it was time to pick college. This. I'll help you. I'll answer any questions. It's your decision. Because if it goes well, I want it to be your decision. And if it doesn't go well, I don't want it coming back on me like, this isn't what I wanted to do. But you put it's your decision. So that's where the conversation would start. If Leon Fallon with my son. But if he ever said, okay, Dad, I hear you, and I appreciate all that. What would you do if you were me? This is what I would have told him to do. I would have said, go back to Alabama, try to win an SEC championship, and presumably pocket millions of dollars while doing it.

Gary Parish (11:32)

Super fun player. We actually had two of Those specifically between and we'll get to Pettiford in just a second here. I see Kentucky fans in the chat. We will definitely talk Ortega away as well here even before the break. But on Phylon, he, he's just super quick now last season he averaged 10.6 points, 3.8 dimes, 3.3 rebounds, shot 31.5% from three 1.4 steals per game. You know, former, you know, high end prospect and was a good supplemental piece on an Alabama team that made it to the Elite Eight. Obviously seated well in the tournament, did well for itself on balance throughout most of the season and then obviously was able to to make a halfway decent run the tournament before getting downright just bounced by by Duke in the tournament there. Phylon coming back does change the dynamic for the Tide. For me I don't think this is the kind of decision where it mean now, hey, maybe this proves to be wrong, maybe Filon coming back and he turns into a top 10 player in the sport. We'll see. But to me it's, it's about okay, Alabama now should be a team that can pragmatically hope to contend at the top of the SEC and, and keep it going because remember Mark Sears, gone. Grant Nelson gone. Chris Youngblood, a very impactful transfer last season, gone. Cliff Amore gone. Mohammed Diabate is gone. Within the conference, you know, he's off to Kentucky, Darren Reed, Jaron Stevenson, they're all gone. So there's, there's some decent turnover here. But you at least you bring back right sell, you bring back Holloway, now you bring back Phylon along with Aiden Cherelle. That's, that's good gains for the Tide, the SEC coincidentally. GP Getting these two returnees back, we'll get to away in a second but him and Pettiford, they could be among the most must see players. I mean Pettiford in particular with the ball in his hands is such a fun player and he decided on Wednesday to return. Was told his nil deal is north of 2 million but under 3 million. He didn't get a first round guarantee which was what he was hoping to get in order to keep his name in the draft. That didn't happen with Auburn specifically and I don't have it in front of me. GP so remind us in just a second here, the Tigers losing just so much. They lose Broom, they lose Baker, Mazzaro, who's now at usc, Denver, Jones, Cheney, Johnson, Dylan Cardwell, Miles Kelly, all exhausted eligibility. So they're all gone now they bring in players Like Keyshawn hall who was a 19 point game guy at UCF. Keyshawn Murphy who was a role player at Mississippi State. They've got this D2 all American, Elijah Freeman, who was highly coveted and recruited by plenty of power conference schools. We'll see how good he can be and how impactful. Coincidentally enough, Auburn also got this Serbian combo forward that committed, you know, three, four hours before Pettiford said that he was coming on back here. So the Tigers will have some interesting pieces. On paper they don't look as strong heading into next season as they did the season before, but Pettiford could be an All American and he could be if he really does pop in a major, major way, then he could be the key to keeping Auburn in that, you know, top five, top six conversation in the sec. Wasn't surprised by his decision, but it did feel pretty close to 5050 in the 24 hours leading up to him disclosing what he was going to do. Your thoughts on Bruce Pearl retaining, you know, the crafty southpaw who really showed flashes last season in games where, you know, Broom was the best player, don't get me wrong, but there were definitely moments in Auburn's brilliant season where it was like just give Pettiford the damn ball and now he gets to come back and have a sophomore season on the plains.

Matt Norlander (15:20)

Yeah, let, let me put a button on Filon first and then we'll go to Peterford. I like he, I expect him to be in the type of legitimate NBA prospect who has a really nice freshman season and then pops as a sophomore. I'm, I am expecting that from him. I did move Alabama up significantly in the top 25 and one all the way up to number 14. What his surprising return also does is just provide a little insurance. Like if Reitzel's not right, you know, he is coming off a ruptured Achilles. We don't know what that's going to look like. And so you got Holloway now you've got rightsle filing line. And if Reitzel's not right, it's not nearly as big of a deal now as it otherwise could have been. And then they bring in the transfer from Miami, Jalil Bethea, who was a five star prospect coming out of Heise just didn't do much at Miami in his freshman season. 7 points, 19 minutes per game. But he's undeniably talented. That's how he got all those stars next to his name coming out of high school. So Nate Oates has some interesting pieces to once again compete for an SEC title. I moved Alabama up in the top 25 and one because as stated, nobody expected Phylon to be on Alabama's roster this time yesterday. Perhaps people in the Alabama collective did, but not. Not out. Not out in the real world. So you have to adjust for that. He wasn't supposed to be there but the other SEC stuff that created big headlines that's been baked into the top 25 and 1. You ready for this? Literally since the morning after the national championship game. So congratulation. Congratulations to Auburn on getting Todd Pettiford back and congratulations to Kentucky on getting Ortega away back. But I never assumed anything other than both of those things. So when the top 25 and 1 updates on Thursday afternoon, if you want to laugh with me, click on it and then just get into the mentions, the replies and you will see people non stop calling me an idiot who looks like a penis. Yeah, because. Because well you never left because Kentucky got Ortega oh way back and they don't even move up. He has been on their projected roster in all 15 versions of the top 25 and 1. I never anticipated him going anywhere other than Kentucky because let's just apply common sense here. Why would you stay in the NBA draft when it's not even clear where you'd be picked or if you all the same uncertainty stuff that was out there with fine line is also there with away? Why walk through that when you can alternative path, just be the best player at Kentucky for millions of dollars. Like it just didn't even make sense. Go through the process. I don't care. Stay in the draft if you want. But like this is always the most sensible thing to do. At least in my mind. I always expected him to do it. Pettiford the exact same thing. He has forever been projected to be on Auburn's roster version 1, 2, 3, all of them. They also don't move up because of the return of Petty for because I never had him gone even though he was going through the process. So big development, sure. But at least two of those three in the SEC were totally expected and have been the entire the entire time if you're curious. Kentucky right now 12th in the top 25 and 1, Auburn 19th and again I took Alabama up to up to number 14.

Gary Parish (18:48)

Yeah listen on OA, as I said on Tuesday or Monday when we did our last show, it apparently got interesting in recent days just because he really did look I guess his best version of himself in these workouts there and it it started to get to a point where you know, maybe a month ago it's like go through the process, see, but you're not really a projected pick. And then he put himself into a position where he would have been drafted if he stayed in. So it gave some hesitation there. But ultimately, you know, Kentucky being one of the richest programs in Nil, I would have to believe that always making north of 3 million to come back as he should. This is, this is a blessed existence. You were the best player on Kentucky last season and Pope's first season. You beat eight top 15 opponents. You made the second weekend of the tournament away. Wasn't expected to be the first, second or third best player on that roster. A year ago today when we knew what Kentucky's roster would look like in the first year under Pope. But he did become that he was their leading scorer, had more 20 point games than anyone. Hit a couple of game winning shots against his former school Oklahoma and now he gets to come back and again be projected to be the best and most important player. Brandon Garrison is back. I expect him to have a much. He had a solid first season after transferring from Oklahoma State. I expect him to be even better. Colin Chandler, I expect to break out there. But they bring in this, this hall of Transfers Jaden Quaintance. We got to see how long it takes to hit for him to recover from his injury. I think he is expected to be on pace to play when they start their season in November, but I think he'll be big. But you know guys like Denzel Abertine from Florida, Jalen Lowe from Pitt, Cam Williams from Tulane who plays sort of a similar role as oa. I mentioned Diabate from Alabama. He'll come over, play in the front court there. Those players and their roles and how they will fit around OA is going to be intriguing to me. And then the freshman coming in of no Jasper Johnson and the Malachi Marino. Johnson's a four star Marino, you know, four star, five star depending on how you look at it. Kentucky's got a case to me now that always officially back in the fold to be a top 10 team. I think you've got him just outside of that gp. But yeah, no, this is big reason for big celebration for Kentucky fans because you know, with that fan base like even if they were hopeful and believing and they saw projected rankings and saw yours and had away, you know, mixed in the fold there, you just don't know until you get there. So and this and as you well know this is also, you know we are now six, seven weeks into the off season and the next season is far beyond the horizon and this, this cycle gives real reason for real interest in college basketball. It's obviously a very, very good thing, particularly for what we do, and Kentucky fans will glom onto this stuff, as they will should. So to have Away back, have Pettiford back file on back, the SEC loads up. I would say Away has a case. Away in Pettiford should be either first, second, third team, All Americans. However we want to figure that out, we'll deal with that come October. But they all have cases. And in OA in particular, if you're on a borderline top 10 team or the best player in Kentucky last season, you come back projected to be in that 16, 17, 18 point game realm again. I don't know if I'll put him there, but I'll certainly consider him and I would have no issue if he wound up being a preseason first team All American.

Matt Norlander (22:08)

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Gary Parish (22:33)

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Matt Norlander (22:35)

Battery for comparison purposes only. Actual range will vary based on several.

Matt Norlander (22:37)

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Gary Parish (23:07)

Here is my question for you. Before we get to a couple of other decisions that happen, let me bring it up in real time here so I can read this off for our audience that's listening as well. GP's top 25 in one I guess this is technically from Wednesday so you haven't updated. The one that's on the site is not your updated one, but your top 10. Before I read this, did anyone in your top 10 get adjusted from 24 hours ago?

Matt Norlander (23:28)

No. The only adjustments from 20 from the past 24 hours would be Phylon back to Alabama and tying Grant Foster to Gen Zag.

Gary Parish (23:39)

Okay. And by the way, that's A. That's not a draft really decision. That's a. That's a really good gift for Gonzaga. Tie on Grant Foster, getting him, getting him on board. Actually, I think that's a sneaky good one for Mark Fuse program. Okay, so here's GP's, top 10 in order. St. John's at 1, Houston at 2, BYU at 3, Purdue at 4, UConn at 5, Florida at 6, Texas Tech at 7, Michigan at 8, Duke at 9, UCLA at 10.

Matt Norlander (24:08)

Oh, it sounds perfect.

Gary Parish (24:09)

I know it does. I know it does. Not to a lot of people. And then Arizona at 11, and then Kentucky at 12. Now, I know we talked about this I think once a couple weeks ago, but now that the draft deadline is coming past, I'm gonna, I'm gonna call you up to the stand and have you. Have you defend your rankings here, which I know you're always eager, willing, ready and able.

Matt Norlander (24:29)

Swear me in. Swear me in first.

Gary Parish (24:32)

Do I have a Bible? Hold on.

Matt Norlander (24:33)

No, I have. I'm gonna raise my right hand and put my left hand on an iPhone. Okay.

Gary Parish (24:39)

That's what we're gonna do.

Matt Norlander (24:40)

Hold on.

Gary Parish (24:40)

I don't even have a Bible in this hotel room anyway.

Matt Norlander (24:43)

Are you at a Marriott? You've got the Book of Mormon in there if you're in a Marriott.

Gary Parish (24:48)

I am, actually.

Matt Norlander (24:48)

Now, while I typically swear to the Book of Mormon. I don't care.

Gary Parish (24:51)

I don't have. I am. I am. I typically am in a Marriott. I am in a Hilton for, you know, looking. Looking out for the betterment of the company. It was the most affordable and fairly priced situation here. So I'm in a loyal.

Matt Norlander (25:04)

You're not loyal.

Gary Parish (25:06)

That doesn't have a Mormon and it doesn't have a Bible. Here we are. So. Yeah, you're never gonna.

Matt Norlander (25:13)

You're never gonna have your own personal ambassador with Marriott. Boy, Bonboy, being this disloyal, you're never going to have your own personal.

Gary Parish (25:23)

Couldn't justify charging like a $590 one night stay in New York City. That's.

Matt Norlander (25:28)

Oh, I've done it. I've done it a bunch.

Gary Parish (25:30)

Yeah, well, okay, I got to get on. I got to. You're on the stage.

Matt Norlander (25:36)

I do it all the time.

Gary Parish (25:37)

Okay, Good to know.

Matt Norlander (25:39)

I am. I am. I'm going to raise my right hand and I'm going to swear. Gonna put my left hand on Roman Reigns.

Gary Parish (25:46)

Yep.

Matt Norlander (25:47)

And I'm gonna raise my right hand. I'm gonna place my left hand on Roman Reigns.

Gary Parish (25:50)

Okay.

Matt Norlander (25:51)

The original tribal chief.

Gary Parish (25:52)

Do you know the oath yeah. Okay.

Matt Norlander (25:55)

Set.

Gary Parish (25:56)

Go ahead. Go ahead, say it, by the way.

Matt Norlander (25:59)

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the.

Gary Parish (26:03)

Truth, Gary Parish swear to tell them?

Matt Norlander (26:04)

Yeah. Do you, Gary Parish, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing.

Gary Parish (26:08)

But the truth, so help you God?

Matt Norlander (26:11)

So help you, Roman Reigns?

Gary Parish (26:13)

That's correct. Yeah.

Matt Norlander (26:14)

Yeah. Do you, Gary Parish, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth of nothing but the truth, so help you, Roman Reigns? I do. I do.

Gary Parish (26:23)

Okay, here we go. Is it wise?

Matt Norlander (26:30)

Objection.

Gary Parish (26:31)

Stop. You can't. You're. You're the witness.

Matt Norlander (26:34)

Damn it. I wanted to be the lawyer.

Gary Parish (26:37)

Is it wise?

Matt Norlander (26:38)

Yes.

Gary Parish (26:40)

Coming off a 14 bid, record setting season for you to have one SEC team in your top 11.

Matt Norlander (26:49)

I can see why you might think it's not. I understand where you're coming from.

Gary Parish (26:53)

I feel like. I just. I feel. I feel as though even, you know, if you go school by school, case by case, and you make your cases, I get all that. And it's. And it's. I would say it's not likely, you know, the SEC will get 14 bids again. Probably won't even get 13 next season. 14 is insane. Like, I don't know if we'll ever see that again. But look at the talent that was retained in this league, the lack of coaching changes in this league. I'm gonna say by the time we get to October, and you, you know, do one final. Hey, season's coming around. Let's, let's. Let's update that timestamp and write some fresh capsules. I will say that when you get to two, three weeks before the start of the season, you are going to talk yourself into at least two SEC teams in the top 10. Because it feels like if you don't do that, you are asking to be wrong.

Matt Norlander (27:43)

I'm not asking to be wrong.

Gary Parish (27:44)

Okay.

Matt Norlander (27:46)

As we've discussed previously, like, I understand when I publish something and then somebody takes a big snapshot and then says, and there's only one SEC team in the top 10. Like, I get that. I. I'm telling you as I do this, I don't even think in those terms. It never. I never look at it through that lens. I don't go, man, I could go ucla here at 10. Or I could just, you know, drop another SEC school there to make it look better in that regard for some people, I just. I don't look at it that way. And I'm not in. This is all obviously subjective. Jesus Christ. It's May 29th, you know, it's May 29th. We don't even know. You went to bed last night not knowing who was on Alabama's team. All right, it's May 29th. It's all subjective. I'm not interested in having a 20 minute debate with anybody about about Texas Tech's ability to compete for a trip to the Final Four. I mean I'll do it. It's the job. But like saying well that's stupid or you're crazy. Like who had Florida number one last year in on May 29th? You ready? Who had Florida top five top ten on May 29th?

Gary Parish (28:58)

No, that was me of course. But ever no one else.

Matt Norlander (29:00)

It was probably just you. It's probably just you.

Gary Parish (29:05)

It's just me. By the way, you have two SEC teams in your top 17. Again the handle is at Gary Paris, CBS. Go find our boy.

Matt Norlander (29:14)

That's not right. It's three. I just told you Alabama's been moved up into the top.

Gary Parish (29:17)

Oh yeah, that's true.

Matt Norlander (29:18)

So it's, it's Kentucky. Don't you, don't you manipulate the rank. Don't you, don't you, don't you Respect.

Gary Parish (29:23)

Go to CBSSports.com college basketball right now I see two in the top 17.

Matt Norlander (29:30)

I'm telling you the issue is never going to be that I only have two in the top. Whatever it is going to be. Do you not realize Ortega always back. I will have that train's never late people. Buddy, go look at every other version of the top 25 and one Ortega always been there the entire time. This is why, this is why I hold strong opinions about people who reply to rankings on social media. They're not always sensible. Whatever. Hey, it could prove to be wrong. I, I just don't think of it in those terms. I look at the teams and I rank them to the best of my ability on May 29 based on projected rosters. That's where we're at. I, I will a couple more things then let's move on.

Gary Parish (30:16)

Yeah.

Matt Norlander (30:19)

I wasn't surprised that away was back to Kentucky Petty for back to Auburn. But I do think it is notable that as the deadline approached there were at least three dudes connected to SEC programs who wanted to stay in the NBA draft. If you asked them what do you want to do? All things equal, what do you want to do? They wanted to stay in the draft and yet Alabama was able to lure one of them back. Kentucky was able to lure one of them back and Auburn was able to lure one of them back. And I do what I do not think is a coincidence, is that the SEC school, the SEC was able to, when it came time, like, all right, let's put it on the table and see what we can get done. Boom, boom, boom. They were able. They were able to get it done. And I don't think that's coincidental. I don't think it's an accident. I think it is a reflection of where we're at in the sport and specifically where we're at in the sport. In that league. They have money to throw around. They're all competing with each other. That's the other thing. It. It feeds off of each other. Like Nate Oates says, you can't let me shop with a smaller stack of cash than Bruce Pearl. So he gets a bigger stack of cash. And Bruce Pearl says, man, what are you doing? You can't let me out there be shopping with a smaller stack of cash than NATO. So then he. And then it just. Everybody's on top of each other. And next thing you know, just next thing, you know, Bucky McMillan throwing millions of dollars.

Gary Parish (31:48)

Right?

Matt Norlander (31:49)

Okay. Dude was in high school. Now he's throwing millions of dollars around to everybody. So, like, this is where we're at. And I, I thought that was notable, that the sec. Boom, boom, boom. One other decision that I wanted to talk about in terms of guys coming back to school and when I said talk about, I mean, just mention Miles Byrd back to San Diego State. Similarly, I have always had him projected back to San Diego State. There is a moment where the Aztecs were in the top 25 and 1, and then somebody added a player, jumped them. They're number 27. If you're curious. San Diego State would be number 27 in the top 25 and one right now. Miles Bird back. Congratulations. But that is just like Pettiford, just like away. That was always the expected outcome.

Gary Parish (32:33)

Yeah, I, for me, I always. That was. I know he brought it up to the deadline, but I would have been genuinely surprised if he decided to stay in the draft. You know, averaged, you know, a little more than 12 a game last season. Did bird at SDSU was only a 30% 3 point shooter as a small forward. You know, he had nine total points in their two NCAA tournament games. A real, like, a real prospect, like, should have gone through, should have done what he did, but I always expected him to be back. I figured that was a lock. And the same with Nate Biddle, who also. That's one more returning decision that came down on Wednesday. You know, he went through a slew of workouts in the past four or five days to get the get the experience and go through it. But that was also long presumed to be the case there. And that is significant. Oregon getting him and you know, Jackson Shellstadt, who had, you know, transfer rumors attached to him in the final month or so of the season that never came to be so good for Dana Altman. Biddle will return indeed. I know you were banking on that as well. So a couple of notable, you know, guys who decided to return. As expected, there were two decisions to stay in the draft that I think we should talk about, one even bigger than the other, and that's R.J. lewis, formerly of St. John's he decided to stay in and then do thiero deciding ultimately to stay in and not returning to Arkansas. So fire up our partners here. Let's, let's take a quick break. But after that I want to get GP's thoughts on RJ Lewis's decision and see if I can bring back the old gp. See if we can really get him to just destroy this young man's decision to drastically alter his career. We'll do that after the break, but first word from our partners.

Gary Parish (34:07)

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Matt Norlander (34:38)

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Matt Norlander (35:03)

All right Norlander, let's settle in on RJ Lewis. He is the reigning Big East Player of the Year and he made a decision that runs counter to the decision Ortega Owe made Tahad Pettifer made, Lebaron Filon made. Like them, his NBA draft possibilities were uncertain and possibly worse than them.

Gary Parish (35:26)

They were in my opinion.

Matt Norlander (35:27)

They were mine too. I'm just trying to Be as kind as I can be. And yet he announces that he is remaining in the 2025 NBA Draft, for better or worse. His father did publicly state that they had big offers available to them. Among the schools that were reportedly interested. Kansas, Carolina, Ole Miss, Georgetown, Villanova. But he decides to remain in the NBA draft. Like I said earlier, I can disagree with the decision or at least be confused by the decision without coming on camera and saying this is the dumbest thing anybody could ever do. Because, like, this is his life. And they say they know what they're doing and this is clearly what they want to do. And after today, I might not ever talk about it again. But I won't pretend that I completely understand this. Obviously, his career, his choice. But can you make sense of what RJ Lewis has decided to do here?

Gary Parish (36:26)

Oh, okay. So primarily in this realm. So I remember being in Newark for the regionals and, you know, you're just a couple of days removed from St. John's getting bounced out of the tournament. And Lou, you know, the bummer for Lewis is he had such a good year and unexpectedly great season, and it ended with. It ended infamously. Like, you know, most college basketball fans probably five years from now, they, they'll remember the year St. John's got good and patino. But, like, will they really, truly remember? Or maybe they will. Maybe. Maybe it was a John Starks level kind of game to make the nick St. John's connection there. And it will. But St. John's fans won't forget it. And that's, That's a major downer to, to end your career on after being the Big east player of the year and, and emerging on a, on a team in a roster that had other players expected to be better like Lewis was expected to be a big factor, but not to the level he was. Anyway, so they get bounced from the tournament. St. John's it's two seed, they have this great season, but they can't make the sweet 16. And then Lewis, you know, makes it known he's going to go into. I guess at that point I was told he was going into the portal and going to the draft. I don't know if it was public at that point. Honestly, I can't remember. But I was told that, you know, he was pretty set on going to the NBA and pursuing that path. Like the portal thing they were going to keep open. A return to St. John's wasn't on the table. And this got insisted to me from multiple sides. It was, it wasn't like Lewis Had a bad final game and it was the culmination of any kind of bad blood with, with the St. John's coaching staff. That didn't, as it was told to me, that that was not a thing whatsoever. It was just they expected him to pursue, you know, going back to the middle of the season, they just expected him to pursue a professional career. And with what they were going to be doing moving forward, it was completely amicable and he was just going to go in the portal if he decided not to. But from the start I was told this is the goal, this is the vision, like we are going to pursue the NBA route. Now whether he gets drafted will be interesting to see. You get, you know, a handful of these every year parish where you have players that just say listen, I'm just done with college. And their reasons can be many. And sometimes, you know, deciding that after the fact might look like the wrong decision. Sometimes, you know, these guys do truly run their own race, so to speak and you know, two, three, four years down the road it winds up working out for him. And that might be the case for R.J. lewis. And I like when you make a decision like this, there's going to be a little bit of PR. Let's, let's just speak bluntly and plainly on this. RJ Lewis is not a projected top 40 NBA pick. Plenty believe he will not get selected at all. But when you make a decision to stay in the NBA draft pool and it's an acknowledged reality kind of around lead circles that that's just not your stock. You want to at least have a little bit of COVID for, you know, why you're going to pursue this. And I'm not saying he didn't have some significant nil deals potentially on the table from some certain schools. Couple of the schools that got reported I think would disagree of their level of involvement in his recruitment. At this stage of the calendar, I am suspect of how many schools just put parameters on a gp, how many high major schools had more than two and a half million on hand available and, and wanting to give it to RJ Lewis. Was it one, was it two? Was it, was it that many? Because I don't think it was four or five. We are now into the end of May. You go and look at your top 25 and 1 and the majority of those rosters have their pieces in place. We saw this issue crop up earlier this week when Milos Suzanne, another player who's similar to Lewis, was almost dead set, but ultimately not on staying in the NBA draft process. Ultimately got the feedback, hey, there's no guarantee that you get a guaranteed deal. There's no guarantee you go in the top 40, the top 45. Dorsilla jar at Houston, come on back, healthy nil package for you. And with that, you know, Houston had its roster, but as was explained to me, like, effectively Houston pulled off like a sign in trade. Like they had to pop Isaacs because there was a little bit of role redundancy. Kelvin Sampson is not a coach that is looking to play nine or 10 guys, particularly not go more than seven once you get into March. And Isaacs is a guy who is ball dominant, who's going to want to play 30 plus minutes a game, who's going to want to get his shots. And I think Houston and its staff wisely saw the situation there and said, you know what, like, we would have thrived with Isaacs, but having USAN Sharp and Isaacs all together, we might be asking for a little bit of friction just in terms of the needs of our players. And so they had to ship off Isaacs and he goes to Texas A and M, he makes it back more than 2 million. Good for him. Hopefully he can thrive and help his own draft situation. But for Lewis, how many spots were actually out there? How much of that was a little bit of just like PR coverage? Overall, would have loved to see him back in college basketball more than free and entitled to do whatever he wants to do. I think he is quite clearly the most accomplished and notable name of anyone to stick in the draft that didn't have, you know, a first round or borderline first round grade. So those are my overall thoughts. What about your thoughts? And again, let's bring back the old gp. Can we just, can you just, you know, be even less diplomatic than I and just destroy this guy's decision right now right here on this podcast?

Matt Norlander (41:50)

Well, let me a lot of thoughts here. You asked me the question, how many schools, realistically as the deadline were was approaching, had two, two and a half million dollars to throw at RJ Lewis? Perhaps the number is small. Let me ask you a different question. If he announces months ago, just as soon as St. John season over, I am leaving St. John's but I am playing college basketball next season. How many offers does he get for.

Gary Parish (42:19)

2 plus million then without exaggeration, GP a dozen at minimum.

Matt Norlander (42:25)

Okay then if, if the reason you, you, if. Then that just means you misplayed this thing. You could, if you didn't have real offers like big lots of them from universities, then you just misplayed the thing because you could have had them if you would have made yourself available to them a long time ago. So at least in my mind, again, I will. I will always talk about this through my. They, the Lewis family can handle it however they want. If this were my family, we would have handled it differently. That's the nicest way I can say it. You. This guy is the reigning Big east player of the year. He would have put him in the transfer portal. The day the transfer portal opens and he's getting the 2,3 million dollar offer. Yeah, he just is. Okay. So now he decides he wants to stay in the draft. And I mean this sincerely. You. You find me 15 years ago and I. I just rant for 20 minutes about idiots and stupid people and dummies and they don't know what they're doing. And I'm just over that because it's not. Everybody has their own life to live and their own choices to make in their own path to pursue. And this is his life. It is not what I would do. It is not what I would advise my son to do. But this is their life. I wish them luck. You say he wants to be in the NBA, Great. I mean, so do I. That ain't up to you, man. You know, that's up to NBA franchises. And based on current information, they ain't killing for you. All right? You might get picked in the second round. It's just as likely as you might not get picked at all. And there becomes a place in the draft where if you're picked, yeah, they're going to offer you a contract because everybody needs cheap labor with all these taxes, bills and everything else. But just last night just. I started popping through the 2024 NBA Draft and looking for college players who were picked in the range. RJ Lewis will be picked if he's picked at all. So let's go. Tristan Newton, 49th pick, last year's year's draft, one year deal. 578,577. It's the two way contract. Kevin McCullough, 56 pick, same contract. Cam Spencer, 53rd pick, same contract. It's one year. 578. 5. 577 for. For most of these guys, it's a. It's. It's less than $600,000. Again, this is just my perspective. If my options are option A, stay in the draft. It's unclear if you'll even be picked. If you are picked, you probably. Based on where people were selected, you're probably making less than $600,000 next year to sit on an NBA bench or play in the G League in front of 45 people. That, that, that's option A. That, that, that. And that might be like the. Among the best initial things that could happen to him by staying in this draft. Or option B would have been. Just make it clear to everybody, I'm playing college basketball next season. I'm the reigning biggiest player of the year. I just took the Red Storm to their first Big east outright championship since 1985. Who's got $3 million? You don't even put a number on it, but somebody would have put 3 million on the table for you. I genuinely believe he will make a fraction monetarily next season playing professional basketball that he could have made playing college basketball if he would have taken a different approach to this entire thing. It doesn't mean he can't be an NBA all Star someday. We'll see. I'm not here to predict on May 29, 2025 where RJ Lewis's career will ultimately land. I'm just telling you it ain't going to begin at a great place. And I do not believe it's going to begin with him making more money. His W2 would have been better in college. You know what I mean? He would have made more money in college next season had he played this differently than he will make being a professional basketball next season. And again, if, if this were my family, this is, I would be, I would be sitting here this morning with an incredible amount of, of regret and confusion.

Gary Parish (46:46)

You're getting there. You're not all the way there. You're getting there. You're getting there. If I pull up one of those old Gary Parrish mug shot bylines that were on.

Matt Norlander (46:54)

Just, just think about it in these terms. You could, you could. Let's just say he picked Kansas six weeks ago for $3 million. Let's just say you picked Kansas six weeks.

Gary Parish (47:04)

I think that is a reasonable alternate universe scenario.

Matt Norlander (47:09)

Okay, let's, let's say he says, hey, Bill Self, this is RJ Lewis. Rick Patino just benched me in my last game, so I'm looking for a new hall of Fame coach.

Gary Parish (47:18)

The hell of a way to start a phone conversation.

Matt Norlander (47:20)

Hey, hey Bill, it's R.J. rick. Bench me. I want a new hall of Fame coach. Are you interested? Let's say he takes $3 million from Kansas six weeks ago. He spends the next year on a nationally ranked team playing inside a jam packed Allen field house, two games on national television every Week. Every time he steps on a court, he's probably the best player on his team and he's playing in front of sold out crowds on real national television.

Gary Parish (47:49)

He's not going to be better than Darren Peterson. But yes, I hear you.

Matt Norlander (47:52)

Okay? You know what I mean? I'm not even interested in a Peterson.

Gary Parish (47:58)

I'm bringing it to you.

Matt Norlander (47:59)

But like, just don't be so dismissive of the idea that the reigning biggies played of the year could be the best player at Kansas next season if he was there, regardless of who else is at Kansas. But whatever that could, you could have done that, you could have done all of that for a lot more money than, than your life. Just like you're like, also. You ready? Just like this. Let's take it to the extremes. Private planes, everywhere you go. Oh, buddy, I'm gonna see these dudes in Atlanta at Hartsville International Airport. I, I, I'm gonna bump into RJ Lewis at Hartsville. I'm gonna be like, rj. And he'll go, GP And I'll say, what's up, man? He will not.

Gary Parish (48:36)

Hey.

Matt Norlander (48:36)

I say, hey, it's good to see you. Where are you headed? And he's like, we're just connecting. We've got a flight into Memphis International. We're playing the Hustle tonight at the Lander center in South Haven in front of 14 people. All right, good. It's good to see you. Good to see you. Good luck tonight. I mean that, that when you frame it, what could have been with what will likely be. I say this as nicely as I can say, makes no sense to me, unless. Let's just circle back to the initial point you made, buddy. I just don't want to be a college basketball player, college student anymore.

Gary Parish (49:15)

And I'm just, I think that can honestly be part of this.

Matt Norlander (49:17)

Like, I think that used to always, or at least often be a part of it.

Gary Parish (49:22)

Yeah.

Matt Norlander (49:23)

But it, I don't know that it should be a part of it anymore. As much as it seems to be, or at least as much as it is in this case, because you are literally leaving millions of dollars on the table. You know, like, like if my son came to me and said, dad, I'm just so sick of college, I can't do this anymore, I'd say, well, what's your next step? And if he said, I don't know, making less than $600,000 and bouncing around the G League and sitting on an NBA bench, I said, okay, well, what is, what's the alternative to that? I Could just stay in college, which I don't really want to do, but they'll give me $3 million to do it. I say, buddy, it's up to you, but I don't know that we should be turning down $3 million to. For a life of uncertainty. Maybe let's take this $3 million for as long as they'll let us take it and then let's see what professional opportunities are out there for us, because right now they don't appear to be great. I just think that's, that's just. That shouldn't even be controversial. Stuff like that's just very basic opinions. And again, I wish him all the luck in the world, but I can't sit here and pretend I understand any of it other than we just were ready to move on and be done with college basketball. And even then, if I were an advisor, I would say, I understand what you want and how you feel, but every day in America, people wake up and do jobs they don't want to do because they just can't turn away from the money. Every day in America, if you don't want to be a college basketball player anymore, I get that. But if somebody's paying you or offering you $3 million to do it and you don't have a similar offer to do something else, you might just at least my advice. I'd play college basketball.

Gary Parish (51:00)

Yeah, that relentless closed fist of free market capitalism just bowed to it. Hey, listen, Gary Lee said it best sung at best you can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose free will. RJ Lewis go do you Go be you. But now, having said that, Paris has some good points before we get out of here, A Duthiro also remained to stay. Also opted to stay in the draft. He could have returned to Arkansas, you know, he played three seasons, two at Kentucky, one in Arkansas, obviously all under Cal was a very, very good player last season. His draft stock seems to be something of a moving target. I don't see him and I do not believe that he will wind up being a first round pick. You know, six, eight, quasi tweener forward, not a three point shooter, good, not great rebounder, but an opportunistic player. He decided to stay in and had he returned like Arkansas, still going to have a really good roster. I actually thought Theo coming back could have put Arkansas into, you know, kind of where I have Kentucky now. Like that top 10 conversation. Shy of that. Caliperi still has, in my estimation, any what has a top 25 roster heading in the next season. He's just a player who I, I understand why he's doing it, but, and, and maybe he, he really could be a case of a guy whose stock is where it is. Like he could come back, be awesome again, find himself in the exact same spot a year from now. And why not just get on, get on with it. And if you've, you know, he made himself some nice money in nil last season, the season before, go ahead and do it. But he was the other notable decision, specifically on Wednesday, of a player that's not expected to go in the first round. He will. I would think he's going to get drafted, but nevertheless passed up a really nice payday to return to college and instead is going to chase his pro dreams as well.

Matt Norlander (52:50)

You know, my drafts are what they are, but you, you can find him in the top 30 in some places. So I think this is more sensible, more understandable than the RJ Lewis, just because it seems like his professional options or opportunities, at least on paper, appear to be a little better than what R.J. lewis is, are. But just take that, set it over here. It's just cool for me to see this young man in this position. As you know, I covered his father at the University of Memphis. I was the beat writer when his father, Amami, enrolled at the University of Memphis. That's the connection to John Calipari. That's how a dude ends up, you know, playing for cow is. There's a. John has literally known him since he was a baby. You know, like I, I, yeah, like literally since he was a baby, he's known him. So I just like seeing a mommy in this situation. Like any of these guys, you'll get there as you, as you grow older. You know, you cover these guys when they're in college and then you, you see them 20 years later and you know, they're, they're, they're men with, with grown kids and they've, they've been awesome. Just, you know, people post basketball career and they're raising families and they're being great fathers and I just love all of it. Like, it make. Genuinely makes me smile to, you know, when these things sort of materialize, whether that's a mommy with a do or, or wanna with DJ Billy Richmond with, with his son. Like, these are all people I covered and then their kids are in college basketball. So I don't know where a dude will get picked, but he's, he's got a chance at least to be first round range. He'll, he'll get a contract and you know, he'll be the latest John Calipari player to end or at least among the latest John Caliperi players to end up in the National Basketball Association.

Gary Parish (54:40)

Hold on, one more. Yannick Conan Niederhauser, who I know you were extremely familiar with, played on, you know, played on a just okay Penn State team last season. Seven footer probably ranks among the five biggest stock risers in the past month. He is staying in the draft. I did at least want to mention him as well. That's, that's, that's a blow for, for Penn State unquestionably. And yeah he's a big who's. Who's now going to get drafted and was the kind of. It's a particularly stinging for a program like Penn State. You know Mike Rhodes fighting constantly uphill in the Big Ten and you have a player who is a bona fide, you know, NBA prospect here and you hope you can keep them something of a secret, keep them on campus for one more year. But goes through the process, impresses enough, he stays in as well. So that's, that's a thing for Penn State. Before we get out of here, just.

Matt Norlander (55:31)

Let me just real quick on that. Those types of decisions can obviously change seasons. They can also change careers. Like I talk about this all the time. We used to spend so much time talking about incoming recruiting classes as it pertained to high school freshmen. Less of that now. But often what actually dictates who's going to win a championship, who isn't? Who's going to be a Final Four contender? Who is it? It's not the incoming freshman. It sometimes is. Obviously look at Duke. But it is often who got the borderline NBA prospect to come back to school? You could have reasonably lost him. Reasonably got him back. You got him back. Those often are the real difference makers at the tip top of the sport. Auburn got one back, Alabama got one back. Kentucky got one back. And here's an example where it goes the wrong way on you and it's, it's tough. It's tough.

Gary Parish (56:19)

You're right. Rhodes is a really good coach. He can overcome it. But that Penn State particularly, that is, that is interesting here. I feel like GP by the way. I'm podcasting from a New York City hotel room on a midweek.

Matt Norlander (56:31)

That's my life. I love hearing it.

Gary Parish (56:33)

Are the sirens bleeding through, by the way?

Matt Norlander (56:35)

Oh sure. But I like hearing it. It's been a minute since I like I spend the entire winter just listening to that all day long.

Gary Parish (56:42)

So here we are. I missed it a little bit. Construction right around the corner as well. Like I've been trying to mute when you've been talking as much. Last thing we'll get out of here. We don't even need to have a discussion on it. But I will at least note that the ACC on Wednesday did release it's not its schedule but the conference opponents. So now we know just among the notable teams, Duke. As I told you a couple of weeks ago, we knew the Carolina. The ACC's new schedule is you will play two teams twice, everyone else once and one team zero times. So I told you it'd be Duke and Carolina and then Louisville is the to play for Duke. For Carolina it's Duke and Syracuse. Which actually surprises me because NC State with Will Wade, they get Wake twice and then they get Virginia twice. So you've got two first year coaches, they're decent enough. Clemson who has obviously been good as of late, they get Georgia Tech and then Pit twice. We'll see on that. Duke's no play is Miami. And you know Miami might not be good in first year but that's that you know, it's John Shire's former assistant. So they will not. They will be.

Matt Norlander (57:42)

Do you think that's intentional? Was that manipulated that way?

Gary Parish (57:45)

I. How can you not think that it was? I mean come on, you know, like it's. No, but it's honestly like who's really clamoring for Duke to play Miami. But it is at least notable that Shire's former assistant is now coaching the only team that Duke will not play next season. So we'll find the schedule stuff gets figured out in terms of when these teams play later on in the season. But that that did emerge and that was just a small. A small bit of news from when.

Matt Norlander (58:06)

As you know coaches slash athletic departments like do have influence over.

Gary Parish (58:12)

Oh they lobby. They definitely lobby. So Kansas did not have to go play at Arizona in his first season last season. That is not a coincidence.

Matt Norlander (58:20)

Right. So this stuff is influenced by what maybe not what everybody wants, but certainly some are gonna have a bigger voice in these conversations than others. So it's possible like North Carolina and Duke are both like we don't want NC State twice. And it's possible Will Wade is like I don't want to get into that fight that many times in year one. Although that doesn't sound like something Will would say. I just think as if I were in charge of the ACC and it didn't matter to me what John said or what Hubert said or what Will said. I would be in this moment where you're lacking compelling games anyway. I'd be trying to get them together as much.

Gary Parish (59:04)

I'd be trying to get Will Wade against Duke or Carolina twice no matter what. And they didn't do it. Which I think is. Which I think is a miss.

Matt Norlander (59:10)

That's. I agree. If I were just looking at. If I'm not concerned with looking at what's best would for John, for Hubert and Will, which, which I understand you have to. You have to consider that.

Gary Parish (59:20)

Right.

Matt Norlander (59:21)

So I'm not saying this is what I would do. I'm saying if I reached a point where I don't care what anybody else says. I'm just doing what's best for my league. I'm matching those three programs with these three coaches up against each other as much as possible.

Gary Parish (59:33)

Agreed. And that was by the way the biggest news that had to do with anything relating to conferences over the past 48 hours.

Matt Norlander (59:38)

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Gary Parish (59:41)

By far the most notable conference related news in all of college athletics. The ACC releasing its opponents a schedule on.

Matt Norlander (59:47)

All we, all we ever do in this sport is like talk about whether we should go to 72 or something over there. They fighting for their lives in football.

Gary Parish (59:55)

We need to wrap because you need to go and I'm not, we're not going to go into this. The quotes and statements coming out of. Of SEC country this week are. They're maddening and sometimes I feel like I'm living on a different planet. Like it is, it is unreal and that. We'll just keep that to the side. But if I'm a, if I'm a hardcore college football fan and I like, I like don't love college football but I do genuinely like it. I follow the sport understandably. So a lot of people are losing their minds because of some of the lack of self awareness coming out of the SEC and the fact that these people can't even. They can't get their together.

Matt Norlander (60:31)

It's just they, they have the biggest stick. They have the biggest stick and they, and they're.

Gary Parish (60:37)

You said stick, right?

Matt Norlander (60:38)

Yeah.

Gary Parish (60:39)

Okay. Connection was a little. I just want to make sure I had.

Matt Norlander (60:43)

I mean they might. I don't, I can't speak to that. You know, I can't. I obviously can't speak to that. But they have the biggest stick and they don't seem, they seem willing to use it if they have to or at least they'll, they'll threaten it. It feels like we've reached a point where everything is about compromise and the sec and on some level also the Big Ten are are seem with public comments close to reaching the point where they say, yo, man, stop asking us to give a little bit more and a little bit more because we are the people who could blow this whole thing up if we want to.

Gary Parish (61:19)

We're going to wrap it. I will say this. College football is right now on pace if you want to know how discombobulated the system is. And I really wish it wasn't this way. It is on pace right now to at minimum, at minimum have four consecutive years with four different national championship formats. Not how you properly run sport, not how it should be done.

Matt Norlander (61:39)

Shouts to David Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. shouts to Terry Teagle legend Huck Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching and listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcast, Apple, Spotify. There is more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do that. We're going to talk to you again real soon. Till then, take.

Matt Norlander (62:08)

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Gary Parish (62:18)

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That sounds like fun. Obviously, murder's not fun.