← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
Elite Eight Saturday REACTION! Arizona overpowers Purdue; Illinois runs away from Iowa + Tom Fornelli joins!
01:20:02
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- [00:00]
Host 1 (Ad Read Announcer)
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- [00:29]
Gary Parrish
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Gary Parrish
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Tom Fornelli
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- [01:12]
Gary Parrish
Hey there. I am Gary Parish. Welcome back to CBS Sports. I Own College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, dodo birds and leaky black. David Cobb is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube honor Brandon Davies, smash the like button. If you haven't yet subscribed to the I Own College Basketball podcast, please do that wherever you subscribe to podcast like Apple and Spotify. Let's get into it. Two tickets to the 2026 Final Four. They were punched on Saturday. Congrats to Illinois. Congrats to Arizona. Needless to say we will get to both, but I want to start in the West Region. Final score Arizona 79, Purdue 64. Just went final about 25 minutes ago. Tommy's Wildcats are in the Final Four after winning the Big 12 regular season title and the Big 12 tournament 36 and 2. That's the record right now. Only losses at Kansas by four and at home to Texas Tech by three in overtime. Very close to being 38, no? Right now, Cobb. I guess it's no surprise. Whenever a number one seed makes the Final Four, it is the expected outcome. But Arizona got here by winning its first game by 34, rounded 32 by 12, sweet 16 by 21. Elite 8. Another double digit victory. Are you surprised? They haven't even really been challenged. At least not in the second half of any of These games?
- [02:33]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, on a certain level, yes. I mean, they, they were challenged in this game though. But the second half demonstrated their elite gear. They. They started getting out in transition. They got to that free throw line, which is a vital source of points for a team that does not make three pointers. So they were able to get Purdue. I mean, from the 12 and a half minute mark on, they were shooting free throws after every Purdue foul. So that was huge. And then Co opit was the version of Coha Pete that we saw in the season opener.
- [03:01]
Gary Parrish
Right?
- [03:02]
Josh Norlander
Like the kind of the version of him that we thought we would get all year. So that was huge. And I mean, it's just great. Both these programs, you know, in our lifetime. We remember Illinois in the Final Four. You and I remember Arizona in a Final Four, but none of these players for either of these teams were alive when their teams last went to the Final Four. I guess some of the Illinois guys might have been alive in 05 maybe, but. But yeah, so no, Arizona was. Was tested. They were tested in this first half, but just completely steamrolled Purdue in the second half by playing their style of basketball, imposing their will and, and kind of getting. Getting Purdue out of rhythm because Purdue did a lot of things right in the first half of that game.
- [03:44]
Gary Parrish
They opened the second half and yeah, I mean, Purdue was obviously in a good spot in the first half, but then Arizona opens the second half, I think on a. And I guess the point I was trying to make is like for the final seven or eight minutes of this game, there really wasn't much drama. Every time Purdue looked like, okay, maybe they'll be able to make a run and get back in. Was a timely three or a Co A Pete, you know, play. They were just as excellent as they've been all season long. And once they pulled away early in the second half, sort of the drama was ripped away from the finish, I guess is the point I was making.
- [04:23]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, no doubt. I mean, Arizona didn't turn the ball over in the second half. The entire second half. They didn't turn it over. That's indicative of their elite guard play. And I think the question going into this game had to be, all right, Arizona's made this far, relying pretty heavily on a couple of freshmen and with a relatively inexperienced group of players. Right. Meanwhile, they're up against this Purdue team that has three starters, Trey Kaufman, Wren, Fletcher Lawyer and Braden Smith, who were starters two years ago on a team that made it to the national title game. So yeah, Arizona is the better team, but Is that experience edge in the veteran savvy of Purdue? Is it going to shine through and carry the day in this game? And it did in the first half. But Arizona's inevitability and total dominance of the interior and of the paint, you know, it came through, came through in the, in the second half. So Arizona marches on. Man, how about this? KOA Pete now joins Con canipple Zion Williamson and Derrick Rose in terms of like freshman production in an Elite eight game. I mean, that's some pretty good company to be in right there. I mean, I thought he was just fantastic in the second half in Arizona,
- [05:40]
Gary Parrish
I believe is now number one in the predictive metric, certainly at Ken Palm 36 and two the record again right now number four in adjusted offensive efficiency, number one in adjusted defensive efficiency. There is no other team in the country still alive or not, that ranks in the top four in both of those categories. So it's just like Clark Kellogg said as they went to the post game show on TBS when Nate Burleson asked him, like, what did we just watch? And he said, I think we might have just watched the, the best team in the country. And you know, they spent more weeks there than any other team this season even though their opponent today, Purdue, was the preseason number one. So they're just awesome in an unconventional way. Like, you know, it's been talked about at this point probably too much, but they have de emphasized the three point line to the point where they rank 363rd nationally in percentage of field goal attempts from beyond the arc. They only take 26.4% of their field goal attempts from three point range. For some context. Alabama leads the country in that category, I believe, and it's somewhere like 54% of their shots come from three. So it's not the most modern way to play, but they emphasize paint punches. They'll crush you on the offensive glass and they get it done. They have one of the best offenses in the country, despite playing mostly as if the three point line doesn't exist in November, December, even while they were undefeated, I guess it was fair to wonder, can you really be great, great doing it this way, but at this point, like, shut up, it's yeah, the answer is yes you could. In the NBA, the style might not work for whatever reason, but in college basketball, we've known it for a while and you know, this Arizona team is, is evidence of it in many ways. You can play fast and win a title, you can play slow and win a title. You can shoot threes and Win a title. You cannot shoot threes and win a title. One of my favorite things about college basketball is the diversity within the sport in terms of style of play and that's probably going to be full on display when we get this final four completely filled out.
- [08:00]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, no doubt the the size matters mantra is going to be a huge theme in this final four considering the two team punch their tickets today it's Illinois and Arizona, couple of smashmouth teams who totally dominated the paint in their Elite 8 games. And to put a bow on that statistic that I mentioned about, you know, co op joining con canipple, Zion Williamson, Derrick rose in elite eight company it's freshmen who have scored 20 points in a sweet 16 and elite eight game in the last 25 years. So he's now in that company. So a great second weekend for, for him and in his draft stock. Braden Buries continues to rise and to thrive and to become a, a top 10 type of type of guy. It's pretty remarkable the rise that he's made now over the last six weeks because you look at the great guards in this draft class and Kingston Flemings from Houston and Keaton Wagler from Illinois and obviously Darren Peterson and it's really a long list. But Braden Buries was, no pun intended, kind of buried behind some of those guys for a decent amount of this season. I think in part just due to the fact that Arizona has so many weapons and beats you in a variety of ways that it never felt like he was fully showcased in the same way that like a Darius Auff is at Arkansas. But I don't think NBA draft evaluators are going to punish the guy for the fact that he has a great supporting cast and now he's going to be on that final four stage with a chance to rise even higher. And he was, he was good again tonight as well.
- [09:32]
Gary Parrish
Well, you're going to look up on the night of the draft and there you're going to hear the name of, you're going to hear the name Arizona a lot. Maybe they don't have a projected top three pick although Braden Burries is going to come off the board pretty quickly, perhaps in the top 10 at this point. But co opiete's going to get picked, Jaden Bradley is going to get picked. They could have four guys in this draft, you know, when we get there. In the meantime they've got perhaps two more games to play and then winning both of them and finishing 38 and two with the national championship at this point would not be Considered surprising to anybody, I don't think. I like to focus on the coaches a little bit just because anytime a a man or woman gets here for the first time, it changes their life forever. And this is just awesome stuff from Tommy Lloyd, the 51 year old from Kelso, Washington. He played juco ball. He played small college basketball, but graduates in 1998 and then joins Gonzaga staff shortly thereafter. So here's the Tommy Lloyd story. He's a freshly graduated kid from Washington State, gets on staff at Gonzaga and spends two decades on mark Few staff. He is the coach in waiting. He's gonna take over someday. But then he gets the offer from Arizona in 2021 and for obvious reasons decided to to take the job. In five years, he's now won 148 games. Nobody has ever won more in the first five years of a Division 1 men's basketball coaching career. In these first five years, he's won two Pac 12 titles, one Big 12 title, two Pac 12 tournament titles, a Big 12 tournament title. He's now been named national coach of the year in two different seasons. And now he's got Arizona in the Final Four for the first time since Lou Dolsen took him there in 2001. Still a ways to go obviously, but through five years his career, it has hall of Fame written all over it.
- [11:51]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, and pretty cool to see him give the shout out to Loot Olsen. He grabs the mic after the, the game ended, which you don't normally see. It's normally like you're on the podium and maybe you get the mic, but it was just like the normal post game interview. He grabs that mic and, and gives a shout out to, to Loot Olson, which I thought was pretty cool to see him, you know, as not like a guy who played at Arizona. It's not like he played for Ludo Olson or worked for Loot Olson. But to have that sense of, of respect for the gravity of the, of the moment and for acknowledging on that like, hey, we're following in, in those footsteps. I thought that was a nice touch from Tommy Lloyd. And it's not hard to understand why North Carolina fans might be enamored with trying to lure him away. But my gosh, hard to imagine that transpiring now that, that Tommy Lloyd is going to the Final Four. I don't blame UNC for, for making an effort if that's the direction they want to go. But Tommy Lloyd can rule the mountain and Pacific time zones. I mean, this Arizona team would be the first team in either of those time zones to win a national title since Arizona did it the last time, which is just absolutely remarkable. So I mean, he owns a large swath of the geographic, you know, the contiguous 48 states there at Arizona. That would be a really difficult thing to leave, especially when you have it operating at this level. And he is, I think, blessed in the sense that like Co opedes an Arizona kid and so maybe that made his commitment to Arizona a little easier. But the thing that's always stuck out about Tommy Lloyd is his ability to get talent from all corners of the globe. And that's certainly a part of this roster with like a mo crevasse, you know, and so just, just a great assemblage of, of talent. Like they lose Henry Visar who goes to UNC to be there, you know, stud rim protector, five man, you know, whatever. You got a guy like a Kylan Boswell who's now at Illinois. I mean they could face off in the national title game. He's not on your team anymore. Like you lose players of that caliber yet still fill in around your, your core and your nucleus and your freshman in a way that makes you what to me looks like the best team in college basketball right now. I mean, we'll see what Duke and Michigan have to, to offer on Sunday, but it's hard to argue with all these folks who myself included had Arizona penciled in as the, the national champion.
- [14:12]
Gary Parrish
They definitely look the part and sort of the roster makeup I think is interesting too. We get into all these conversations all the time about so what's the right way to roster build in the year 2026? Do you really focus on high school players or do you prioritize the transfer portal like both the answers? Both. And Arizona is an example of that. Yeah, they've got transfer portal additions that are awesome. They've gained players through that, they've lost players through that. But they also have the five star freshmen and I think you still need that. Two teams punch tickets to the final four on Saturday and they both have excellent high level freshmen. Their leading scores are both freshmen. So it will be fitting and we'll see what happens on the other side of the bracket. We'll see what happens in Sunday's elite eight games. But we could get a scenario where when we look up and we're talking about this was the year of the freshman, the best freshman class in history. The final Four could illustrate that given the teams that we get, particularly with, with buries and Arizona and Wagler in Illinois already there before we get to the Illinois Iowa game just real quick on Purdue, it's over now. And that was an all time great four year run for a core of young people that are going to mean a lot to that athletic department and that fan base for a long time. And yet I know that they probably don't feel any of that right now. I remember being in Chicago, Big Ten media day, you talk to Matt Painter, Braden Smith, Trekaufman, Wren, and sometimes, you know, players or even coaches, especially coaches are hesitant to say things out loud that they believe or desire just because they don't want to set themselves up for having to miss some publicly stated goal. And so coaches will often try to downplay things like, oh, you know, you can rank us in the top 10 if you want, but I don't know about that and stuff like that. Well, like to a man they were like, no, we are here to win the national championship. I mean, yeah, Big Ten title, Big Ten tournament title, all that stuff. But ultimately if we don't win the whole thing, we will not feel like we did what we wanted to do. And so that's been the goal the whole time. And the season was up and down. They had a stretch where they went 6 of 7 in a 13 game span, but then they get rolling in the Big Ten tournament win that cut nets. And then here they were one game away, one win away from another trip, a second trip to the final four for this group. And truth is, they just got beat by a better team. They were good and the other team's great and the great team pulled away from the good team in the second half. But for Braden Smith and the rest of the players who have been a part of this for the past four years, they will forever have four NCAA tournament appearances, three Sweet Sixteens, two Elite Eights, and a trip to the national championship game with a two time national player of the year, Zach Eady. So yeah, this version of Purdue basketball, I guess is now in the books and over and a version that fell short of what they wanted to do. But I don't care who you are, you go to college for four years and you win this many games and accomplish this many things. It might stink today, but you'll look back on it fondly someday, I'm certain.
- [17:32]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, I mean that trio, Unbelievable. Braden Smith, Fletcher Lawyer, Trey Kaufman, Wren. Purdue as a program is kind of the foil to everything that, that people have problems with now in college basketball, just in terms of they retain, they develop from within. It's not a bunch of five star Kids, it's not a bunch of transfers. Like sure, they use the portal, sure Matt Painter recruits quality high school players, but it is kind of an old school way of, of operating and I think that makes them endearing to maybe even some non Purdue fans in a way. But yeah, they are still atop that heap. Now this, this loss makes it official. The team with the most NCAA tournament wins all time without a national championship, and the team that's number two on that list, ironically is, is Illinois. And they're marching on with it with a chance to maybe get themselves off of that list. But I mean, I, you know, I couldn't help but think a little bit about like Braden Smith and the journey ending here. But there's, there's no shame whatsoever in coming up a little short and bowing out in the Elite Eight. Like they, they actually, I thought played fantastic basketball the first half. They went on a run when Braden Smith was out of the game. Trey Kaufman ran, only played nine minutes in the first half. And yet Purdue was the better team in that first half. They just, you know, they couldn't keep it up for 40 minutes against that juggernaut, that machine, that physicality of Arizona. So I thought it was a really good game plan. I thought they baited Arizona into taking a lot of threes maybe in the first half that, that really aren't in Arizona's wheelhouse. And you know, Arizona regrouped at halftime and, and made the adjustments needed to, to win the game. I mean, Purdue did everything in his power to try to counter everything Arizona would do. And they did it for a great, you know, a great portion of that game. In the end, the better team won.
- [19:20]
Gary Parrish
So. 79, 64 Arizona over Purdue. The Wildcats are in the Final Four and one of the teams that will jo join them, that is Illinois. And we will focus there when we get back. Two Big Ten teams battled down in Houston for the right to travel to Indianapolis. Illinois won it. We'll get into it next. First, let's get a word from our partners.
- [19:39]
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- [21:25]
Gary Parrish
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- [21:49]
Gary Parrish
All right, Norlander, we're settling this right now. We're doing a pizza topping draft.
- [21:53]
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- [22:00]
Gary Parrish
I am ready GP all right, I'll go first. Let's go. Handmade pan crust, pepperonis, extra cheese, jalapenos, onions and garlic parmesan sauce please.
- [22:09]
Host 1 (Ad Read Announcer)
Garlic parmesan sauce. Okay, I'm going thin crust, red sauce, spinach. You know what, give me some banana peppers too thin crust. It's the four seed of all pizzas. I stand by it.
- [22:21]
Gary Parrish
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- [22:33]
Gary Parrish
Any toppings, any combo. That's why this is Domino's. Best deal ever. With Domino's best delivery you can get any pizza with any toppings for just 9 99. Prices higher in some locations. Select this online only offer from 223 to 46 size availability varies by crust type. Max 7 toppings 6 for New York style and pan crust. Stuffed crust is extra. Excludes XL and specialty pizzas. Minimum purchase required for delivery prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary. Final score Illinois 71, Iowa 59 in year nine in Champaign. Brad Underwood has the Illini in the Final Four for the first first time since 2005. Keaton Wagler Projected top 10 pick 2026 NBA Draft. Finished with 25 points, 3 assists while helping Illinois overcome what was once a double digit deficit. Cobb, Illinois is one of the best offensive teams in the country. Number two offense at Kim Pom. But against Houston and again in this game, the defense seemed to be the difference late. What did you make of Illinois holding Iowa in the second half to just 23% shooting from the field and only 27 total points? That was the output in the first final 20 minutes.
- [23:45]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, you know you taught me how to sort data over@bartorvic.com Gary, and I've been trying to sort some of that data to come up with a firm statistical justification for Illinois's improved defense here during the NCAA tournament and down the stretch. It's not quite showing up in the advanced analytics yet, but boy, in terms of the eye test, how about this? Iowa made 12 point field goal in the second half. 12 point field goal in the 2nd half of this game. There was just nothing available for Iowa. And with the way these, these two teams play, slow long possessions like you know, you weren't getting out in transition if you were Iowa. Right. And so you were forced to play in a half court game, which is kind of their preference. But against a team with, with Illinois's length and in size, it, it didn't go very well in the second half. I mean that, that statistic I think explains it all. I mean one two pointer in the second half, I mean that's, that's unreal and it's, you can't sustain in a college basketball game over the course of 40 minutes without anything coming inside the arc without anything coming in transition. Nonetheless, I mean they, Iowa still got some decent looks like the, the high pick and roll attracts the, the defenders there and they were spraying it around to shooters who, who made shots in the first half. But I, you know, the last nine minutes of this game, I think Iowa made one shot from the floor in the last nine minutes. Bennett Sturts didn't make a shot down the stretch for. For over nine minutes. So you take away the best player and. And you. I mean, they just completely clamped down in a way that makes you think, I can see this Illinois team hoisting the trophy on a Monday night inside Lucas Oil Stadium because we know how good they are offensively, but what they've showed us defensively these last two games, it's. It's a total, total ceiling changer in terms of what they could accomplish.
- [25:36]
Gary Parrish
So, as a lot of you know, we at CBS Sports, we are lucky enough to not just have a incredible team of podcast and podcasters, but we happen to have at least one who is an expert on all things Illinois because he loves all things Illinois. It is the great Tom for nellie from the COVID 3 pod on X@ Tom Fornelli. Buddy, congratulations. That was awesome to watch. Keaton Wagler, 25 points, and you're going to the Final Four for the first time since 2005. Thank you for joining us. I hope the celebration starts just as soon as we're done here. How you doing? How you feeling?
- [26:15]
Tom Fornelli
First of all, they might have banned alcohol sales after 6pm in Champagne, but they didn't ban them where I live. And the celebration started hours ago. So I got to be careful with what I say on the show here. But I just want to start. Gary, I'm. I'm very proud. I've been watching the show. I'm very proud of you putting on the brave face and coming on the show despite. I know that you are devastated inside that the Yolina who you hate with a deep, deep passion for are going to the Final Four. But you showed up. Unlike Norlander, who was begging not to have to go to Houston because he was terrified of what he might see with Illinois winning that region and going to the Final Four, he was begging to go out west to avoid that. So, yeah, it's. It's nice to be on the show. The ghost of Tom Friedelli has returned, and he's in a very good mood because Illinois is going to the Final Four for the first time since 2005.
- [27:00]
Gary Parrish
So when did you know this team was good enough to do this? Because, you know, they were in and out of the lineup a little bit, various injuries here or there. You know, this isn't one of the teams that has been talked about at the tip top of the sport, like Duke, Arizona, Michigan, basically from start to finish. When did it become clear to you, oh, no, Brad Underwood's got a team that can do this.
- [27:24]
Tom Fornelli
I mean, when they were on that long winning streak at the end of December, and then into early Big Ten play where they won their. I think they won their first after they lost to Nebraska in December.
- [27:32]
Gary Parrish
But.
- [27:32]
Tom Fornelli
But then they won like, 10 straight Big Ten games once the new year turned over. Like, I felt really good about the team, but there was always the concern in that I knew they were very good offensively, defensively. I did not think they were outstanding. I just thought, you know, the one thing they don't do is foul people, and they kind of just rely on that. And then when Kylan Boswell went out with the hand injury, Andre was out for a little while. You were kind of worried about how that was going to impact things. And then at the end of the year, they lost a couple games where, you know, like, they blew leads and like, that UCLA game on the road where they were up at, like, 22. I think they started on like a 220 run at some point in that game, and they blew that. And they just did not look very good. They struggled to defend guards for the most part. Like, they couldn't keep anybody from getting into the lane for a while. And I was just like, man, if we're playing like that going into the tournament, we're not going to get very far. And then they get to the Big Ten Conference tournament, and Nick Boyd does that to them, just completely destroys them in the very first game. So now they get bumped out of seedline. So I will say, going into the tournament, before last week, I was not that confident. And, you know, you get pen in the first round, which was a gift, I guess you could say, that we were owed for some of the. The shenanigans that we've had to deal with in the NCAA Tournament recent years. Like when they gave us Loyola, who was the number nine team on campom as an eight. We were in there as the one seed a few years ago, but. So I. I was happy with Penn, and then I was actually kind of disappointed that VCU beat North Carolina because I thought North Carolina was a much better matchup for Illinois without Caleb in the game. But then the starting point guard for VCU got hurt right away in the VCU game. So that was a breeze. So I. I think I didn't really buy into the idea that we were good enough to do this until I was watching the Houston game. And it's like, man, we're just better than this team. You know, it's like. It's like I knew Houston was good, and there was always like, that fear of just of what Calvin Sampson's teams have been the last few years. And then Houston knocked us out of the tournament a few years ago, and I was just like, I don't know. This is a really good team. We're playing them in Houston. But then about five minutes into that game, I was like, now we can beat these guys. They're really not that great. So it was about then where I truly felt like this was possible. Now I will say we're going to the Final Four. We don't know all the teams that are in there. I know Arizona is very good. I'm guessing that Michigan's probably going to beat Tennessee. I just think Michigan's terrifyingly good. And then you're looking at Duke and Yukon, and it's a situation where there's part of me that's like, man, I think I'd rather face Yukon. But it's freaking Yukon. So it's. It's a very. It's. I'm thrilled that we're there. It's. It's going to be really tough from this point. Going forward, though.
- [29:58]
Gary Parrish
Sure.
- [29:58]
Josh Norlander
Showing up. We're going to. We're going to get four Nelli in Indianapolis.
- [30:01]
Tom Fornelli
I don't know. I don't know yet. We're working on that. We're still working through. You know, I'll tell you what my fear is. If I go to Indianapolis, they're going to make me work.
- [30:11]
Josh Norlander
You can have my credential. I'll just hang out.
- [30:13]
Tom Fornelli
I want to be in the crowd slamming beers and just watching the game. I don't. I don't know if they're going to want me on HQ if I'm in Indianapolis and Illinois wins a game at the Final Four.
- [30:21]
Gary Parrish
Well, I will say, like, that's a. That's a real thing. Like, I have been at the Final Four when my alma mater was there, and it's sort of a weird thing because you're working and all of your friends are, like, partying and having the best time of their lives. And it's like, well, I'll text you when I get the one that was done with the column. It'd be so much more of an enjoyable experience to just get to do it the way you always dreamed of doing it, which is just like, you know, put on your aligney gear and go have a great time celebrating this school that you love, as opposed to, let me get in front of a microphone and you'll make sure I got my shot framed and all of that stuff. So I will say, a few years ago, we had somebody, I'll leave them nameless, but they work with us. And their alma mater was in the final Four, and they would typically be working like, you know, on that postgame show or pregame show or something. And the bosses were like, go have fun. We'll see you tomorrow. You know, like, we could find somebody else to produce this show, direct this show, you know, set up this camera, whatever. You go enjoy this night, and we'll see you on tomorrow's show. And so if you get there and it is work related, I hope people carve out that kind of time for you too.
- [31:26]
Tom Fornelli
Just showing up bleary eyed the next morning.
- [31:30]
Gary Parrish
I do that. I mean, I do that whether my alma mater is there or not. You can show. Trust me, if you can't jump on a. On a CBS sports podcast, blaring, what is the point?
- [31:41]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah, if you, if you've ever gotten to the end of one of our, like, Saturday reaction shows during the college football season, we're kind of bleary eyed at the end of those. There you go.
- [31:49]
Gary Parrish
Hey, Cob, let me ask you real quick, because you mentioned, hey, they're there now. And what a wonderful story, because I think for now, you make a good point. I didn't think about this from Illinois fans perspective, but, like selection Sunday, the bracket comes out, you grab it and you go, hold up, we got to play Houston, and Houston probably in the sweet 16, and you win that. I mean, Florida, the SEC champs, like, okay, this is going to be. And then it. You get past Houston and then it's Iowa and you feel comfortable, suddenly you're a favorite in a place where you didn't expect to be. And so Cobb, you say, okay, like, now they're there. And I could see them winning the whole thing, and obviously I could too. But I thought it was notable that Stojakovic, like, went out of his way in post game press conference to say this, because it's almost like we're here and this is great. And I love my guys and I love my teammates and you get all that stuff. Like, we all love each other and we get along and camaraderie and. And then Stojakovic, like, actually, like, stops and says, but I want to say we're not done. We're thrilled, but this is like, we go, we're going there to win two more games. And so I do think sometimes that happens to teams. Like, we focus so much on the road to the Final Four that it almost feels like when you get there, you're at the finish line. And the teams that understand immediately this is an accomplishment that will put us in the rafters forever, but we still got a 14 tournament to play. The ones that can get that in their head pretty quickly tend to benefit from it. And I thought it was notable that Stojakovic went there unprompted by anybody. He took it right there.
- [33:23]
Josh Norlander
Yeah. I mean, Illinois has always been good enough in the advanced metrics. Fornelli, you know better than anybody. What killed them from early February on was they couldn't win an overtime game. I mean, they went 04 in overtime games between the first week of February and Selection Sunday. If they go 4 0, I mean, they might have been the. The fourth number one seed. They very easily could have been a number two seed if they had won even two of those four OT games. So in terms of the advanced metrics, they were there all along in Ken Palm, in Torvik, in some of those predictive metrics the committee looks at. But when our model was interpreting them, you know, from a bracketology lens, it's like the resume was just a little bit lacking relative to some of the other teams in their neighborhood. But just in terms of quality of play, there's never been a doubt in my mind that Illinois would be dangerous. And it's, you know, fitting. You mentioned Andres Toyakovic because he was awesome in this game, and he's just become such a beast in terms of attacking the basket, and he's. He does something for them that nobody else can do in terms of being that long wing who can. Who can go get a bucket? And it's like he's finally cast in the right role. Like earlier on in his career, before he transferred to Illinois. It's like he had to be the primary option. He had to be on ball a lot. They needed him to shoot a lot of threes at his previous stops. None of that is the case anymore, and he's just allowed and able to shine in his role. And I think he's a huge, huge part of Illinois getting to this point and looking so dangerous because, yeah, you got to worry about the Evasich brothers. You got to worry about a couple of really good guards, obviously. Keaton, Wagler, Kylan, Boswell. You got to worry about some of these stretch forwards who can bang home some threes, and then, oh, yeah, Andre Stojakovic is a matchup nightmare, because who do you put on that guy? You can't put a bigger player on him because he'll. He'll drive around him. You can't put a Smaller player on him because he'll bully him. So he is a massive, massive part of. Of what Illinois is doing here.
- [35:11]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah, you look at Keaton Vogler and he's clearly, you know, he's. He's the All American. He's the dude. He's going to be the lottery pick. He's a great player, but, like, I. I felt like during the regular season, David Mirkovich was the most important player on this team has. As he went, so went the alignment. Like, when he played poorly, they lost. When he did it, they won. That was pretty much cut and dried how it went. But I do feel like in the NCAA tournament, Andre Stojakovic has. Like, they're not here without him because the one thing about this offense is it is, you know, now it's back to number one on Ken Palm. It's the most efficient offense in the country. Thank you, Purdue, for stinking it up in the second half there against Arizona, which by kick, I just say, Illinois goes to the Final Four on the same night Purdue blows a big lead against Arizona in Elite Eight. Game I am. This has been a wonderful night for me. But just like Illinois, they have a tendency when they would build big leads, they just kind of get comfortable and start chucking threes. And Stojakovic was. Has been that guy who doesn't let that happen. Like, ever since he's come into the tournament, he's been like, nope, I'm gonna get to the hole. The threes aren't falling. I'm gonna take care of this. Especially with Wagler because he's down the stretch. Over the last month of the season, the scouts from opponents have basically been stopped. This guy, and once he's been taken, he hasn't been as good the last. I mean, he's played well tonight. He's played well, but he hasn't been the guy that was scoring like 46 on the road against Purdue earlier this year. So Stojakovic, since he came back from the injury, has taken on such a huge role, and he has been such a. Like a spark plug for this team. Like, tonight, they don't win without him.
- [36:34]
Gary Parrish
So the offense is rated second nationally at Kinpom, but the way they get there is unusual. I want to ask you specifically about that because I don't know when or where, but at some point I was discussing the Illinois offense somewhere, and an Illinois fan responded to that with, yeah, it's good until we play good teams and we miss all the threes and then we lose or something along. It was. It was I just noticed it was an Illinois fan being dismissive of the Illinois offenses rankings. And so it's just interesting the way they get to these numbers. Number 2 in offense despite ranking 23rd in 2 point field goal percentage and 129th in 3 point field goal percentage. So how do you have the second best offense in the country when you rank 23rd and 2 point field goal percentage and 129th and 3 point field goal percentage? Like that doesn't compute. Well, here's how. They ranked 10th in offensive turnover percentage and they ranked third in offensive rebounding percentage. So they do not give the ball away and they create extra shots with offensive rebounds and then they make their free throws 78% of the time. So it's an unusual offense, but it works. And against Iowa in this game, all of that was in the box score. Everything I just told you was in there. They only turned it over eight times. Iowa turned it over nine. They grabbed 16 offensive rebound bounds. Iowa only had eight. The result had Illinois finished with six more field goal attempts in the game. And then they were also. You ready for this? 18 of 21 from the free throw line, 86%. And that's how you win a game by 11 points despite missing 14 of 7 teen 3 point attempts.
- [38:15]
Tom Fornelli
It's funny because you look at the matchup against Iowa and they both move. Like we all know Iowa is a very slow moving team. That's what they do. But Illinois moves very slowly too on offense. You look at their tempo metrics, they're one of the slower teams in the country. But they are completely different the way that they go about it. Because you know, like I say that my comparison for Illinois's offense is they're just running the same offense the Thunder do. Like they watched OKC in the NBA and they're like, all right, let's just do that. Like Wagler will be SGA and everybody else feels that same kind of role. Now obviously they're not doing it to the same level as the Thunder are, but that's really the kind of basis of everything they do. And Wagler has just been incredible for a kid who's a freshman. Just the way he processes things and the way decisions he's able to make, especially under pressure and doesn't back down from when he does get abused. Because like, I don't know if you know this, Gary, but there are Illini fans online who tend to be a bit doomerish, who tend to be a bit crazy, I guess is the way you could put it.
- [39:06]
Gary Parrish
I'VE certainly seen the crazy. I don't know about the other side, but I've seen the crazy. Sure.
- [39:10]
Tom Fornelli
But yeah, it is, it is strange. It's like apparently like Illinois's offense, when they miss shots, they don't win. As opposed to all the other teams that when they miss all their shots, they. They still figure out ways to win games.
- [39:23]
Gary Parrish
So with, with Wagler, the processing stuff is what I hear from NBA people as much as anything. And Brad noted that in the post game and I think all of this has been reported before, but he's like the first time I ever saw him live. We already had him signed and he had a relationship with the, with the grassroots coach and he was like, he just makes all the right decisions. And he makes all the right decisions at six foot six. Like he is arriving to the NBA at the perfect time because the, the league's bigger at every position. Just like in college basketball now every. Everybody's trying to. The buzz. Buzzy words you hear in recruiting. Positional size. Everybody wants to have great positional size. And so Wagner's got that. I mean, just a jumbo lead guard who processes things and shoots it consistently. Well from the three point. Nobody saw this coming in the off season. Even Brad said that. But now, like, there's just no way he gets out of the top 10. And there's a lot of ways you can imagine him getting into the top five.
- [40:26]
Tom Fornelli
Yeah, this was an offense that was supposed to be run by Kylan Boswell and Andre Styakovic and, and Wagler just kind of forced the issue. Like they were talking about him when he first showed up. He's like, hey, this, this could be a guy. We bring it off the bench who could be an excellent guy. Like in the kind of the same way they treated Will Riley last year, where he came off the bench to start the year as just kind of like a scoring boost, come in when they needed a little jump, and then he obviously built a bigger role as year went on. But that was supposed to be what Wagler was doing. And then it was like by the time the season started, they're like, how about we just run everything through him? Because, like, he was that good in that, like playing in practice and just in everything. And it's, it's no complaints for me. It seems to be working pretty well.
- [41:02]
Gary Parrish
One more thing and then, and then I'll focus on Cobb and get you out of here. I. I was sort of wondering out loud with Norlander at some point because there was a moment where it Was never likely, but it was. You know, we were at the Sweet 16, and it was possible that you could end up, I think we were at the lead eight, and it was possible you could end up with four Big Ten teams in the Final Four. We now know that's not going to be the case, but we could still end up with two. Michigan could get there. My question to Norlander is that I think with few exceptions, like if you looked up and Alabama and Arkansas were both in the Final Four, you might hear SEC chants break out at. In Indianapolis in either game with both fan bases contributing to the chant. Would that be the case with the Big Ten? Can Illinois. No way. Michigan and Michigan fans cannot cheer for Illinois. No.
- [41:58]
Tom Fornelli
If I am in Indianapolis next week, I can guarantee you I will not be cheering for Michigan whoever when they're playing against Arizona. I will be a huge Arizona fan in that game. Like, I, I, everybody thinks, like on our show that I'm a Big Ten homer. I, I do not root for anybody in the Big Ten that's not named Illinois. I just cover the conference. I don't care who wins or loses. But no, God, no. As a fan, no. I mean, I, I was much rather Juwan Howard was still coaching the Michigan Wolverines and Dusty May right now because they'd be home just like Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State and all those guys.
- [42:29]
Gary Parrish
Okay, Cobb, let me ask you this, because maybe I'm just, maybe I got a blind spot for this. Cobb, you're an SEC graduate. Am I. Am I right or wrong? What I know, like Auburn, Alabama. That might not work. Right. I don't think Auburn is going to cheer for Alabama. Alabama's not going to cheer for Auburn. But, like, could Florida and Texas both go to the Final Four? And maybe that's cheating because Texas is a new addition. So let me try somebody new. Can Florida and Alabama go to the Final Four? And Florida fans say, come on, Alabama, we're rooting for you. And Alabama fans say, come on, Florida, we're rooting for. For you.
- [42:59]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, man. You know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
- [43:02]
Gary Parrish
I really do think the SEC fans sort of will. They want to, they want to tell you we're better than you. And if we got to bond together to make that point, we'll do it. Where Illinois fans, you're telling me, I mean, Big Ten fans, you're telling me. Just wouldn't. We're. We're all on our own here.
- [43:16]
Josh Norlander
Yeah. It just means more. We all know that. It just means more.
- [43:20]
Gary Parrish
It's pretty clear. It just Means more. When do you think it'll start meaning more in the Big Ten? For now? You know what?
- [43:26]
Tom Fornelli
I don't know. I guess when we stop winning all these titles, I guess maybe, you know, because we're probably, we're going to win a national title in basketball, put it in the trophy case next to our football ones that we've won these last few years and. Yeah, no, it's never going to happen. I, I hate these teams. As a fan, like my, my wife, you know, we were talking about it earlier today. She's like, are you really that happy about Purdue blowing this?
- [43:46]
Gary Parrish
I was like, yes, yes.
- [43:49]
Tom Fornelli
She's like, do you want Michigan? I was like, no, I don't want Michigan. It's like, I, I grew up as an Illinois basketball fan, like, for football. I didn't really get into caring about Illinois's football team until I was actually on the campus. Like, as a kid, before I ever got to college, I was watching Illinois basketball. So, like, they were my team and I hated these other schools. They were the rivals. And it was like, you know, the other basketball schools, the Indiana's, the Purdue's, like, it drives me insane that Indiana is suddenly good at football, too. And like, winning a national title because my childhood was, well, we suck at football, but at least we could beat the crap out of each other basketball. And we have that. And now they're winning national titles in football, which, of course, Illinois is good in football now, too, but not to the same level. So me, like, like I said earlier, getting to the Final Four on the same night that Purdue gets eliminated in the Elite Eight, and then Indiana fans are sitting at home watching it all happen, is just an incredible evening for me.
- [44:39]
Gary Parrish
Last thing. So Dusty May at Michigan, your bitter rival, your nemesis, he was asked either today or yesterday. I think it might have been yesterday. It's all, I don't know what day it is. You know, hey, Dusty, can you make sense of, you know, suddenly Indiana is winning a national, Big Ten's got a football championship, and now the Big Ten is dominating this NCAA Tournament. Can you make sense of, you know, how the Big Ten has started to emerge? And, and he was like, you'll have to catch me off the record.
- [45:11]
Josh Norlander
Record.
- [45:12]
Gary Parrish
And the implication is something we've all heard, which is, yeah, there, there was, this is, this is the, this is the suggestion. At least there was a conference where they were really rocking and rolling down there for a long time. And I'm not going to say we were all innocent up here, but we weren't rocking and rolling the way they were rocking and rolling. But now everybody's spending money and everybody's buying players, and everything's been leveled out a little bit that. That's the implication. Is that what Big Ten fans believe?
- [45:42]
Tom Fornelli
I don't know what that's what all fans believe, but it's true. I mean, we like, the dumbest part of the Big Ten in the last 20. Whatever years, both in football and basketball, was they didn't want to cheat. They were trying to be noble. You know what I mean? Like, they weren't paying. Like, some programs were. Don't get me wrong, it was happening. It just wasn't happening to the extent that it was happening other places.
- [46:03]
Gary Parrish
Right.
- [46:03]
Tom Fornelli
And when it was happening in, you know, the Big Ten, Bruce Pearl would call the NCAA and tell on you for it. But just like now that you are just able to do it openly, like, look at the television deals. The Big Ten has more money than everybody else. They have giant alumni bases. They have giant donor bases. And now that, like, the money cannons legally able to be fired at your basketball team and your football team. It's no coincidence that all of this is happening because the fan bases are just as fervent as they are in the sec. It's just they weren't able to cheat before.
- [46:35]
Gary Parrish
I guess we'll leave it there. I guess we'll leave it there.
- [46:38]
Josh Norlander
Hey, congrats, Tom. Congrats.
- [46:40]
Gary Parrish
Seriously. Happy for you. Thank you for being here. And honestly, like, just happy for Brad and that entire fan base like that is a passionate fan base that cares deeply about the sport. And, you know, nine years ago, they hired one of the best coaches working at this level, a guy who. It took too long for him to get his chance to be a Division 1 men's basketball coach. And, you know, it all culminates right here with. With what happened today. So genuinely happy for you, happy for that fan base, happy for Brad. And if you're an Indianapolis buddy, first round's on me.
- [47:15]
Tom Fornelli
I'll be there.
- [47:16]
Gary Parrish
Finally. I'll see you, buddy. Thanks.
- [47:18]
Tom Fornelli
Thank you.
- [47:19]
Gary Parrish
That's Tom for Nelly. Cover three pot. If you're not subscribed, make sure you subscribe. Go ahead, tell them. Tell them there's more of us than there are of them. Put it in the COVID Three podcast comments, too. Make this thing catch on in multiple pods. All right, Cobb, back to Illinois. Iowa, you and I. Just. Any other takeaways from the Illinois side of things, and then we'll get to the Iowa sort of postmortem Yeah, I
- [47:43]
Josh Norlander
mean, Brad Underwood was 20 years into his coaching career at one point and was the head coach at Daytona beach community college. Yeah, 20 years, right. In his early 40s. And I've enjoyed some of his comments. Just about, you know, the. Some coaches would have had a big complaint or a big gripe or would have made a big to do about the fact that they had to play in Houston. Right. Against Houston. And he was like, no, I would have crawled over broken glass to get to a sweet 16. Right, because he, he grinded his way up through the, the lower rungs of the profession. And you know, we think of him as being a big time coach now, but I mean, as recently as 10 years ago, he was at Stephen F. Austin, right? And now here he is. And so he's. He's paid his dues, right? Like he's. He's in his 60s now and he's paid his dues to get here. And this Illinois program has paid its dues to get here, too. It's cool to see the build because he stepped into the Illinois job pre Covid, pre, You know, this era of mass transfers, pre Nil. Right. And he has adapted, adjusted, and now he's, he's slowly built it into a perennial winner and now one that's in the Final Four. You know, you think about like some of those teams earlier on in his tenure, like the IO team that had Kofi Coburn and. And you thought, man, maybe that was going to be the team. And, and in some ways it's got to be more gratifying for a guy like Tom that it didn't happen overnight like, that they had to go through some real heartache in order to get here. And they are a really well constructed team. The variety of ways in which they can hurt you, it is, it's impressive. I mean, a 40 to 12 edge and points in the paint in this game really stands out. And Murkovich feeding Tommy Evisich down low, a couple of big buckets there in the second half to really get the momentum going back in Illinois's favor. It's not just Wagler, it's not Stoyakovic there. There's a variety of weapons on this team, and that's, I think, what's going to make them an absolute nightmare to defend in the Final Four, regardless of opponent.
- [49:40]
Gary Parrish
I'm glad you, I'm glad you highlighted Brad's story because I think it's an important one. I promise you. There's an assistant coach right now in his 40s who is certain he deserves a shot. Can't believe he ain't got one yet. Doesn't understand why the brakes aren't popping for him. And in some cases, that person might be right, might be wrong, doesn't matter. It's just that those people exist. And if you need a story of inspiration, well, the Brad Underwood story could perhaps help you. It's a great one. Just let me run you through it. I did it for Tommy Lloyd. We'll do it for Brad as well. Brad Underwood did not get his first Division 1 head coaching job until he was 49 years old. For some context, John Scheier is right now in year four at Duke at the age of 38. It would take Brett Underwood 11 years after that point in his own life to get the job at Stephen F. Austin. Before that, he had worked at the junior college level, was an assistant at Western Illinois.
- [50:52]
Josh Norlander
Go Leathernecks.
- [50:54]
Gary Parrish
Kansas State, South Carolina. And then he gets the Stephen F. Austin job at the age of 49. This is in 2013. And he won 89 games in three seasons, went to three straight NCAA tournaments. And then he gets the Oklahoma State job, goes to the NCAA tournament there in year one, and then he bounces to Illinois. And he has now made six straight NCAA tournaments. And now in year nine at Illinois, at the age of 62, Brad Underwood is in the Final Four, taking a program to this place that it has not been since 2005. Nothing was handed to this guy. He's earned every bit of this. And now, just like Tommy Lloyd, his life is changed forever. Before today, Brett Underwood was the Illinois coach, a great one. But if you were going to introduce him, you'd say, this is Brad Underwood. He's the head coach at Illinois. But now, for the rest of his life, he's Brad Underwood, Final Four coach at Illinois. And that's a. That's a pretty cool label to have.
- [52:07]
Josh Norlander
You know, you should have had Kyle Boone on to ask how Oklahoma State fans feel about it.
- [52:11]
Gary Parrish
Well, they should have renegotiated that contract. I mean, that's really what it was. You know, the AD there was just like, we'll talk after the season. We'll talk after the season. We'll talk after the season. And, you know, Brett Underwood had Brett just as agent. Brett has a billion clients. Agents spend every week of. Every year talking to athletic directors and search firms. And at some point, the Illinois job is open. And so if you're the Illinois athletic director, you're talking to Brett just. And suddenly, if the agent lets you know that one of his clients who you wouldn't assume is available because just got to Oklahoma State. Do you really leave Oklahoma State after one year to go to Illinois? Some people wouldn't, but you find out he's butting heads a little bit with his administration at Oklahoma State and would be open to a move if you'd be interested in the rest, as they say, is. Is history.
- [52:58]
Josh Norlander
Hey, and real quick, we could potentially get a Brad Underwood Underwood vs. Mike Boynton national title game because Mike Boynton now on the staff at Michigan. So that would be quite a plot twist.
- [53:11]
Gary Parrish
So just. Yeah, there's a million storylines, potential storylines that exist. We'll get to them in advance of, of, of Indianapolis. I want to focus on Iowa just for a second because I know it stings. They were up 10 points. Like that gets lost in this. They had a double digit lead at one point and couldn't hold on. The truth is the better team won, the more talented team won. But just if you got thoughts on Ben McCollum, you know, making it to the lead eight in year one in Iowa at the age of 44, this be a good place for you to provide them.
- [53:46]
Josh Norlander
I mean, great job, like exceeded the expectations far and away that anybody would have had for, for Iowa basketball in his first season. And now the sky looks like the limit for them. They got to get bigger though. They, they've got to get bigger if they're going to compete in this new landscape of college basketball. You know, we see these schematic shifts that occur and it's like within the last two years the, the pendulum has swung towards playing with two traditional bigs. And I mean, to be quite honest, I didn't feel like Iowa had one traditional big that was really capable of bruising with the best teams left in this bracket. And the fact that they made it this far without that. Well, it's a credit to the fact that they had an unbelievable point guard in Bennett Sturts and an unbelievable coach who schemed his way to an Elite Eight appearance that nobody would have seen coming. So, I mean, nothing to be ashamed of here in the least. In, in many respects, like the way they came out of the gate swinging here was, was super impressive. So, I mean, yeah, it's. If you're an Iowa fan, you're, you're elated at the way this season played out. Even if the, you know, look, there's only one team that's going to hold the trophy at the end, so you're one of the last eight standing. Congratulations.
- [54:54]
Gary Parrish
I mean, I'll just Keep it simple. When you're picked ninth in the Big Ten preseason media poll and you make it to the Elite Eight, you have outdone all reasonable expectations. They started Iowa, did 48th at KenPom, made the elite 824 and 13 record, and they did it when their top two scorers were both playing Division 2 basketball just two years ago.
- [55:24]
Josh Norlander
Like, everybody knocked out the reigning national champions along the way, too.
- [55:27]
Gary Parrish
I mean, with a coach and two leading scorers who were in the Division 2 national tournament two years ago, like, this is crazy. And so when you're in the Elite Eight, you'd always rather win than lose. When you're up 10 in the Elite Eight, you hate that. You couldn't hold on to that. But if I'm an Iowa fan, I couldn't be more excited about where this thing is headed. I've got a 44 year old who was born in Iowa City, who we might be in some point saying this is the best basketball coach in the country. I don't want to say things like that out loud now because it seems somewhat premature, But I mean, four national championships at the Division 2 level, 31 wins in year one at Drake, 24 wins in year one at Iowa, and marched it all the way to the Elite 8 with two players, your two leading scorers starting their careers at the Division 2 level. Now, I know Bennett Sturtz has developed into a, you know, first round draft pick, but Ben McCollum has developed Bennett Sturts into a first round draft pick. And I can't remember where I read it, but at some point the other night, I was just reading a Bunch of Ben McCollum profiles and columns and, you know, background stuff, stuff that was written, you know, four years ago, stuff that was written last year, stuff that was written last week. I read one column from one player that played for him at Northwest Missouri State. I was just consuming everything. I set it up that way to say, I apologize for not giving somebody credit. I don't know where I read this.
- [56:59]
Josh Norlander
It may have been the Maryville Daily Forum, you know, that's the paper of record in a Maryville, Missouri, where Northwest Missouri State is located.
- [57:05]
Gary Parrish
Just perhaps it was that, and if so, if so, shouts to them. But the point was somebody said, if you look at McCollum at Northwest Missouri State, and I don't believe they meant this literally, but you'll get the point. It was like he always had the best point guard. Like always. He just always had the best point guard. And the implication was he didn't always Recruit the best point guard. It's just you look up and suddenly he. He. You look up and, oh, man, they got the best point guard. Again, it was like he recruits whoever he recruits, but give it a minute, and he's going to turn that thing into the best point guard. So if I'm an Iowa fan, I'm going, okay. We got a guy who had to take over for Fran McCaffrey, bring players with him from Drake that. That he had previously brought with him from Division 2 Northwest Missouri State, and we still made the NCAA tournament, still won 24 games, still went to the Elite Eight. Like, going forward, he's not going to be relying on Division 2 players and former Drake players. And I say that respectfully. Going forward, he's going to have Big Ten players. And I assume Iowa fans, the ones with the money, can't wait to throw it at this program right now to build up nil. You got one of your own, like, coaching your men's basketball program at a level at which I don't think many people could coach it. And so if I'm an Iowa fan, I hate what happened today, but I am fired up for the future. As long as North Carolina doesn't come in here and try to mess it up.
- [58:36]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, right.
- [58:37]
Gary Parrish
I'm just kidding. No, nobody actually expects that. I don't even. I shouldn't even said that. I don't want.
- [58:41]
Josh Norlander
They gotta hire somebody to hire somebody.
- [58:43]
Gary Parrish
I want to be clear, like, I would. If I were North Carolina, I would be. I would be kicking the. I would want to know more about Ben McCollum. I would want to know more. I would just. Hey, you might tell me he has no interest because he's got his dream job and it's. He's at home in Iowa and he would never leave it. Okay, that's fine. But I would want to know that because I guess after Brad Stevens went to the national championship game that first time, you might have been hesitant to say, this is the best basketball coach in the country. Because it was like, yeah, it's just like. But it's just a, you know, one year and, you know, like, we'd have enough of a sample size to say stuff like that. But we got to a point where if you wanted to call Brad Stevens the best coach in the country, nobody would really argue with you. Certainly wouldn't argue if you said, he's one of. And I think we can already do the one of. And I'm not ruling out the idea that we could get to the best at Some point. Because when you look at the guy's Wikipedia page, I mean, I'll just put it simple. There's nobody else coaching men's college basketball at the Division 1 level that's got a Wikipedia page. That's. That looks like his.
- [59:47]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, he's. He's a winner. Now the next evolution is really working the portal and going out and getting players who maybe you weren't as familiar with, right? Like, you knew Bennett Sturts. You understood that he would be the perfect fit for the way you wanted to play. So that talent identification factor, like, that's the next evolution. No reason to believe he can't cross that bridge seamlessly. Right. But going to be real curious. I mean, I was. Portal hall will be as interesting as any portal hall in. In the country because Bennett starts did so much for them. And I mean, who's. Who's next? That's. That's the question in terms of the point guard position there.
- [60:20]
Gary Parrish
All right, so congrats to Illinois, congrats to Arizona. They both punched tickets to the final four. Up next, we're gonna do the five Hour Energy starting five, where we'll pick five standouts from Saturday's elite eight games. First though, Josh, let's get one more word from our partners.
- [60:37]
Josh Norlander
Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo stash. Got paid back with the Venmo debit card.
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Tom Fornelli
You.
- [60:44]
Josh Norlander
You can instantly access your balance and spend on what you want, like game day, snacks, gear, tickets and more. The more you do, the more cash back you can earn. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Sign up now@venmo.com CollegeCard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank. NA Select Schools available Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo me stashterms max $100 cash back per month.
- [61:07]
Gary Parrish
Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.
- [61:21]
Host 1 (Ad Read Announcer)
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- [62:15]
Gary Parrish
All right, now it's time for the five Hour Energy Starting five sponsored by five Hour Energy and their Fruity Rainbow flavor. Treat your taste buds to an explosion. A fruity candy flavor with a tasty caffeine kick. Get candy flavored Chaos with Fruity Rainbow 5 Hour Energy Shots online at www5hourenergy.com or at Amazon all right, Cobb, I picked the team just in the spirit of making this as simple as possible. Then I'll get your thoughts on the team. We'll start it with Keaton Wagler at Illinois in their victory over Iowa on Saturday. He was 8 of 17 from the field, 25 points, 3 assists, 2 rebounds in 37 minutes in the backcourt right beside him. I'll go Bennett Sturch. Yeah, Iowa lost but one starts fault. He was 8 of 17 from the field, 24 points, three rebounds, three assists. He played 40 minutes. We'll go Andre Stojakovic at Illinois, 7 of 9 from the field, 17 points off the bench, added five rebounds in 26 minutes at one front court spot. Will go CO A Pete at Arizona. He had 20 points and seven rebounds, 9 of 18 from the field in Arizona 7964 win over Purdue. And then let's finish the starting five with Ivan Karchinkoff at Arizona. He had 18 points, eight rebounds, 7 of 11 from the field in 38 minutes. So I got an Illinois player, another Illinois player, two Arizona players and Bennett Sturts had Iowa. You got any complaints or will you, will you co sign this for me?
- [63:47]
Josh Norlander
I'm a little annoyed that you picked the exact five who I would have picked. So I can't can't really come at you about any of those. Karchenkov was the one. I wasn't sure if that was going to be your pick there, but he was, he was really good. So. So no, no issues here. I think he nailed it.
- [64:02]
Gary Parrish
All right, I'm gonna take that as a pat on the back and we'll call that the five Hour Energy Starting five sponsored by five Hour Energies Fruity rainbow flare. Treat yourself to a candy like flavor explosion and satisfy your sweet tooth with this zero sugar treat once again you can get it. You can get in on the candy flavored chaos. You can do it online that website again. 5hourenergy.com that's 5hourenergy.com or you can just shop it at Amazon. You know where to find Amazon. Before we get out of here, let me set Sunday schedule for you. 2:15pm Eastern Michigan Tennessee in Chicago on CBS. Michigan listed as a seven and a half point favorite. Then 5:05pm Eastern Duke Yukon in D.C. on CBS, America's most watched network network of stars. Duke minus five and a half Cobb. We'll get out of here on this. Give the folks the winners. Which two teams are joining Illinois and Arizona in Indianapolis?
- [64:59]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, I'm going Michigan, Duke as the outright winners. But I do have the underdogs covering both spreads here. Look, Tennessee I think at least has the size to contend with Michigan's. I mean there's going to be so many collisions above the rim between Ade Mara and Felix Akbara in that Michigan Tennessee game. Those teams both love to throw lobs and then you know, Duke defending Yukon's intricate half court schemes is going to be a a really interesting chess match there. So it should be another fantastic day. Like I know both these games today ended up being double digit spreads but they were really good games for you know, 30ish minutes. Right. In both cases. And I kind of feel like tomorrow could be the same way. I think you got two clear cut favorites but undercard contenders there who are totally capable of pushing the favorites deep into the game.
- [65:47]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I noted on Saturday Friday night's pod that every point spirit bread in the every point spread in the elite eight was at least five and a half points. And so the fear, to the extent of fear was that we might not get the most competitive games. And you're right, they were both competitive to a point. But ultimately Illinois wins by double digits and Arizona wins by double digits. I think when I sent my picks in to the desk I replicated what you just said. I took Michigan and Duke to advance but against the spread took the balls plus the points took UConn plus the points. Either way just Michigan, Tennessee up front around the rim going to be a fist fight. And the only way I think Tennessee has a chance is to offensive rebound like crazy and create Extra shots. But trying to do that against Michigan's front court is. I mean, Tennessee is the best offensive rebounded team in the country, but Michigan's front court is widely regarded, or at least often described as the best front court in the country. So that'll be where I think most of the focus is. Let me ask you though, as you know, a Tennessee alum, what would it mean to. For the Vols to. To finally get to a Final Four? Because this is one where every time it gets tweeted or said, I'll just like look in the YouTube comments and it'll be like, I can't believe Tennessee has never been to a Final Four. I think sometimes people just think of Tennessee basketball and the Lady Vols get in there and it's like all that success and then you remember Bruce Pearl having a team ranked number one. Bruce Pearl beating John Calipari's Derrick Rose Tigers team in a 1 vs 2 matchup in one of the biggest regular season games in modern history. Rick's been to now three straight Elite Eights. Rick's been to a Final Four at Texas and Tennessee has won an incredible number of games in this event. More games than any other team in history without actually advancing to the Final Four. So you tell me, what would it mean for the Vols to actually be able to get this done? Even if based on the opponent and the point spread, it is unlikely.
- [67:57]
Josh Norlander
Yeah. Look, I was the beat writer for covering Tennessee for the Chattanooga paper whenever Tennessee made its first NCAA appearance under Rick Barnes and they lost to that Loyola Chicago team in a devastating finish there. Right. And ever since that, that season, this team has been among the most consistent in college basketball. And I think Tennessee fans want this for Rick Barnes as much as they want it for themselves. Because when Rick Barnes came in to be the Tennessee coach in 2015, they were coming off of the one year Donnie Tindall fiasco. And the athletic department as a whole was a complete mess, just a total mess. And through the past decade plus now, he has been a model of stability both in terms of the on court success and just in terms of the man that he is and the character that he has and the way he runs his program. And so if Tennessee were somehow some way able to break through here, you would see. I don't know that you would have ever seen Tennessee fans be more happy for a coach, Right. Than they would be for, for Rick Barnes because he feels like, I think Tennessee fans view him as their, their uncle, their grandfather. He's just, he's just been A model of stability and a guy who a lot of people thought was going to Knoxville to sail off into retirement. Right. And not been the case whatsoever. So it's crazy. I wrote today about this crop of 70 plus year old coaches we have. It's, it's an unbelievable group right now that are doing things that the 70 plus crowd has never done before in college basketball. You've got Rick Patino, Tom Izzo, Kelvin Sampson, Rick Barnes, Kelvin Sampson telling John Rothstein today, I'm running it back, baby, let's go. Rick Patino sounds like he's running it back. Rick Barnes is, is still writing the best chapter of his coaching career. You know, Tom Izzo's not going anywhere. So the, these, this group of coaches and you could throw Greg Campi at Oakland in there if you want because Those are the five who are 70 plus unless somebody's had a birthday here in the last couple of weeks. And the fact that they're still operating at this high of a level, I think it's awesome for college basketball. The, the fact that we had, you know, Roy Williams and Coach K and Tony Bennett and Jay Wright and you know, Leonard Hamilton aged out and Jim Boeheim aged out and Jim Laranega flamed out a year and a half after reaching the Final Four. But here, these, these four or five guys are still hanging on and doing it. Not in some sort of figurehead, like, oh, that's so cute that he's still coaching sort of way, like, when's he going to retire? Like, no, all these fan bases want these guys to keep coaching because they're doing it at an elite level. And so whether or not Tennessee breaks through tomorrow, I mean, that's still true of Rick Barnes. He's operating at an unbelievable level for a man of his age. But if he is able to break through, there will be some teary eyes among those Tennessee fans for sure.
- [70:35]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, like, I think it's easy to forget because he's now been to eight straight NCAA tournaments at Tennessee and three straight Elite Eights. But you're exactly right. When he was pushed out of Tennessee, Texas, I don't know that. Like, if you went back to that day and read reaction to Tennessee is hiring Rick Barnes, I don't, I don't remember what the reaction was, but I remember this being a thing that was sort of just floating around. The guy just got fired at Texas because despite having all of the resources that the University of Texas has, he's getting beat on in state recruits by Baylor, Texas A and M. And various other schools. He's not made the second weekend of the NCAA tournament for seven straight years. So this guy's got a natural recruiting base in Texas, but getting beaten recruiting. Got all of the power behind the University of Texas, but hadn't been to the second weekend in seven years. And this is the person who's going to rebuild Tennessee if he can't recruit with the natural recruiting base in Texas. And then it didn't get off to a great start. Finished 12th in the SEC in year one, tied for ninth in year two. Through two years at Tennessee, Rick Barnes was 14 and 22 in the SEC. And it really felt like, you know, what if this thing doesn't get turned around, like it just might be the way his career ends. And then the recruiting class with Grant Williams comes in and even like Admiral Schofield, they weren't highly rated. They weren't supposed to do all the stuff they did.
- [72:16]
Josh Norlander
Jordan Bone, Jordan Bowden, lamonte Turner, Kyle Alexander, they were a bunch of three star kids who, who bought in and, and yeah, I'll be as happy for them as I will be for the current players because they laid the foundation, you know, that's right.
- [72:28]
Gary Parrish
And then, and so in year three, after finishing 12th and ninth and back to back years, they win the SEC 26, nine co champs in the SEC and haven't missed the NCAA tournament since. So you said that if Tennessee is able to do this, there'll be a lot of all fans who are happy for Rick Barnes. I just think there'll be a lot of people who are happy for Rick Barnes, myself included. And this always gets complicated because like I know all these people, right? I know Dusty May, I know Rick Barnes, I know John Shire, I know Dan Hurley. I've known them all for a long time. I like them all on a personal level. So when I say things like I would love to see Rick Barnes do this, it can sound like, and I hope Dusty May doesn't. No, I can get just excited about Dusty May taking a second school to the Final Four. I just say like I get happy for people. Like I genuinely enjoy other people's success. I had a friend one time who was a musician. Here we go. Now we're doing this thing where I just start telling stories in the middle of the night. And like his career started to pop, right? It was like my best friend, roommate. It was my roommate. And his career starts to pop and next thing you know he's Rolling Stone, he's on David Letterman, he's doing all the late Night shows. It's like, a thing. And I just remember one time we were young, and I was like, man, I can't believe this. This is wild, man. This is happening. It's happening. And he was like, thank you. And, like, it means a lot to hear that, because I haven't heard that from a lot of the people I thought I would hear it from. He was like, people don't seem. The people I thought would be happy for me don't seem as happy for me as much as they seem jealous of me or resentful of me or all sorts of weird feelings. And I just always go back to that because I just have a blind spot. I get happy for people when they have success, and I don't enjoy watching people struggle. So I can get excited for John Shire, get excited for Dan Hurley, get excited for Dusty May. But, yes, I wouldn't mind seeing Rick Barnes get this thing done. Because, yes, I'm a Memphis grad, and most Memphis grads don't want to see Tennessee do anything successful.
- [74:35]
Josh Norlander
I thought that's where you were going with it.
- [74:37]
Gary Parrish
No, no, I don't have that. You know, and perhaps it falls under the same umbrella. You ready? I am a lifelong Memphis fan, and I. Tennessee winning does not bother me at all. Ole Miss winning does not bother me at all. I don't. I. What. Memphis winning and losing is what impacts my mood. What happens outside of that has no impact on my mood. I don't root, like, for Nelli's. Like, I loved watching Purdue lose as an Illinois fan. Right. I just don't have that in me. I don't. There's never been anything bad that happened at Tennessee where I was like, I'm so happy because I hate them, because I bleed blue. Go, Tigers, go. I just don't have that in me. So I. I realize that makes me in the minority among Memphians and Memphis fans, but I would. I would not mind seeing Tennessee get to the Final Four, if only so that they never have to hear they've never done it again. And specifically, I wouldn't see. Mind seeing Rick Barnes, a man who I think once, perhaps appropriately so, had a reputation as somebody who struggled in this tournament. Like, he'd have some good teams and some great players, but he ain't going nowhere in this tournament. Of course, he got to the Final Four with TJ Ford, but that's it. That's the one Final Four in a long history of NCAA Tournament experiences at power conference schools. And whether that was a fair label or not, on him. I just. I know that it existed, and I don't think it's fair anymore. I think once you go to four straight Sweet 16s and three straight Elite Eights, people nitpicking you about what you used to do in the tournament should probably be dismissed, mostly. And this is just wild. You don't normally see people actually become better at their job as they get into their 70s, but I think you can reasonably argue. And then we'll call it a night. I think you can reasonably argue. Rick Barnes has never been a better college basketball coach than he's been the past three or four years, in his late 60s and early 70s. And that's an unusual thing.
- [76:42]
Josh Norlander
Yeah. So Tennessee had been to one Elite Eight when he arrived. Now they've been to three straight. That. That just about. Just about sums it up, so. It's very big of you to be so happy for others.
- [76:54]
Gary Parrish
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now Memphis fans are just gonna hate me. That's the way that'll go now, right? I thought you were one of us, so it's always gonna be somebody upset. But I'm just telling you the truth. I don't. I don't mind when Tennessee does.
- [77:05]
Josh Norlander
Well, you definitely one of us. You're not one of them.
- [77:07]
Gary Parrish
Yes. Yeah, I established that a while ago. So. Go Balls. Or. Or you know what? Go. Go Blue. Go Duke. Go Yukon. I just want everybody to win. I think that's why. I just want everybody to win and be happy.
- [77:24]
Josh Norlander
That's great, gp. You're. You're a good man. And I'm happy for all your success, too, you know? Oh, you're happy for everybody else's success? I'm happy for your success, and I'm
- [77:34]
Gary Parrish
happy for your success.
- [77:35]
Josh Norlander
Thanks.
- [77:36]
Gary Parrish
Let's just. Hey, the world could learn something from us, couldn't it?
- [77:40]
Josh Norlander
Absolutely.
- [77:41]
Gary Parrish
Look at us. We're just two men just being happy for each other's success and being happy for everybody's success.
- [77:47]
Josh Norlander
The world.
- [77:48]
Gary Parrish
The world could learn something from us.
- [77:49]
Josh Norlander
I'm happy for Josh's success, too. Yeah,
- [77:54]
Gary Parrish
I'm happy for Josh's success, too. And also, like, I don't know that people ever actually put all this together like, it is total coincidence. But the idea that three Memphians are now running the Ion College Basketball podcast at the same time is kind of weird.
- [78:07]
Josh Norlander
Well, I'm just an occasional guest. I wouldn't say I'm running it, but,
- [78:10]
Gary Parrish
you know, but, like, in this moment. In this moment, there are three people contributing to the. I Own college basketball podcast. And we all happen to be from the same place.
- [78:19]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, 901, baby. You know, I've never been able to
- [78:23]
Gary Parrish
throw the M up properly. My fingers don't work like that, so I can't even do it. I have to take my left hand and fix my right hand if I want to throw the M up because I just can't do it naturally. It's been a. It's a real problem. It's a real problem.
- [78:38]
Josh Norlander
Got that Grizzlies court. Hold on behind me there.
- [78:40]
Gary Parrish
I see it. I see it. I'm just worried I'm gonna bump into Big, you know, big Glow. At some point, she gonna throw the M up, and then I'm gonna want to throw the M up and I have to use my left hand to get it right with my right hand. And then she's gonna laugh at me. But I'll worry about it. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
- [78:56]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, but you're the type of guy who can pass Livy Dunn on the street and not even, you know, think twice. So, I mean, you would figure out a way through that.
- [79:03]
Gary Parrish
I'm gonna figure out a way. Whenever I bump into Glow, I'm gonna figure out a way. Hey, I think that's a show. Let's get it. It's 12th. It's weird because I slept all day after, or not all day, but, like, I stayed up all night. And I look out at Times Square all night long. And last night I just notice, like, at 3:30 in the morning, there are police cars everywhere. And I'm like, oh, God, here we go. And I start doing the Twitter searches, like, Times Square Police. And like, I'm looking, I'm like, there's. There's got to be. Because I look at this every night and I noticed it was something different. And I'm like, what is going on? What is going on? So I spent like 45 minutes trying to figure out if there's something really bad happening in Times Square. And I think they were just setting up for a protest the following day. Anyway, I stayed up all night doing that. And then I. So it. I know it's 12:30, 40 here on the East Coast. I am wide awake.
- [79:54]
Josh Norlander
So how many Diet Cokes did you have at the studio tonight? You gotta be careful with those things, man. They can be dangerous.
- [80:04]
Gary Parrish
This thing cost me like, two grand.
- [80:07]
Josh Norlander
Yeah, it did. Well, it causes. It cost one of your employers two grand.
- [80:11]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, it costs somebody two grand. All right. It costs somebody two grand. So, you know what if that's the worst thing that happens to me this week? I'm gonna have a great week, right?
- [80:21]
Josh Norlander
That's right.
- [80:22]
Gary Parrish
If the worst thing that ever happens to you in a week is that a Diet Coke destroys your computer, I don't want to say that's a good week. That's kind of a bad thing to have happen, but, like, there's worse things in the world. I'm gonna be okay.
- [80:34]
Josh Norlander
You're gonna wake up looking over Times Square. You know, I know you get sick of it, but. But not. Not a bad life when you. When you wake up and you see Times Square.
- [80:42]
Gary Parrish
I mean, it's not lost in me that, like, right now, like, if this were an apartment, I'm. I'm like, I'm on the 61st floor in Midtown Manhattan, overlooking Times Square. Like, you would pay $10 million for this apartment, brother.
- [80:55]
Josh Norlander
We could not be in more different places right now, I'll tell you that.
- [80:59]
Gary Parrish
I mean, it's a beautiful view. Like, I can show you if you want to see it. It's. It looks great. I just. But, like, I just stare at it all night long. I just sit here and stare at it all night long. And then I eventually fall asleep sometime between 5 and 6. So the point is, my sleeping habits are so off. I am 1240. I'm wide awake. I will not be asleep for at least four hours. And I don't even know why I'm going to continue. I will continue to work on the preseason top 25 and why I'm projecting rosters as we speak.
- [81:24]
Josh Norlander
Well, have fun with that. I'm about ready to go to bed, though, G.P.
- [81:27]
Gary Parrish
all right. All right. I'll find somebody else to talk to and keep me up at night. Just because I'm not tired doesn't mean you got to sit here and listen to my bullshit all night long. Oh, God. He's telling another Times Square story. So let's. Let's it call on a show. You go to sleep, and I'm gonna just. I'm gonna stare at my window for another few hours. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle. Legend. Hook Larnau. Thank you guys once again for watching listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anyway. Subscribe to podcast. Apple, Spotify. More of us than there are of them. It's got to be reflected in the comments. So do that, and I will talk to you again Sunday night after the games. It'll be me and Norlander live from Stanford, Connecticut. Till then, take care.
- [82:15]
Josh Norlander
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