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Summary

Eye On College Basketball: Best Final Four Field Ever? How Jon Scheyer Got the Duke Job and Exceeded the Expectations

Released on March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Eye On College Basketball hosted by CBS Sports, veterans Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander dive deep into the excitement surrounding the 2025 Final Four. With all four number one seeds—San Antonio, Auburn, Florida, and Duke—advancing, the hosts discuss whether this lineup represents the best Final Four ever. Additionally, they explore the remarkable journey of Jon Scheyer, Duke’s head coach, analyzing how he secured the prestigious position and surpassed all expectations.

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The 2025 Final Four: Best Field Ever?

Gary Parrish opens the conversation by highlighting the unprecedented nature of the 2025 Final Four, where all four teams are number one seeds: San Antonio, Auburn, Florida, and Duke. This is only the second time in history that all Final Four teams are top seeds, a feat previously achieved in 2008.

Matt Norlander reinforces this sentiment by providing statistical backing:

"The collective efficiency margin of those four teams... adds up to be comfortably the best in the history of advanced metrics." (02:34)

Parrish echoes this enthusiasm, stating:

"Whatever team wins, this will be a worthy champion that is looked upon fondly." (04:47)

The hosts agree that the absence of a "Cinderella" team this year contributes to the high quality of competition, ensuring that any champion will have a legitimate claim to being the best team in the country.

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The Role of the Transfer Portal in Final Four Success

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the impact of the transfer portal on the Final Four teams. Three out of the four leading teams—Auburn, Florida, and Houston—are spearheaded by players who began their careers elsewhere before transferring to their current programs:

• Auburn’s Janai Broome started at Morehead State.
• Florida’s Walter Clayton Jr. began at Iona.
• Houston’s LJ Crier was a transfer from Baylor.

Norlander remarks:

"This Final Four reflects where we are in the sport. The transfer portal is now integral to building championship teams." (15:18)

Gary Parrish adds that this trend is unlikely to reverse, noting:

"It wouldn't surprise me if the Final Four continues to feature teams with players from the transfer portal in the coming years." (19:16)

They argue that the transfer portal has democratized talent distribution, allowing players like Donovan Dent of New Mexico to move to programs like UCLA, enhancing competitive balance and team strength.

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Jon Scheyer's Path to Duke and Coaching Success

A focal point of the episode is the story of Jon Scheyer, Duke’s head coach, whose ascent to the position is both inspiring and serendipitous. Initially considering positions at DePaul and UNLV, Scheyer’s trajectory changed dramatically when both opportunities fell through, ultimately leading him back to his alma mater.

Norlander shares an insightful recount:

"Scheyer was deeply invested in both the DePaul and UNLV processes. When neither panned out, Duke became the perfect next step, and he seized the opportunity with remarkable success." (22:24)

He elaborates on Scheyer’s meticulous approach to building his team, emphasizing intentional roster construction over mere talent accumulation. Scheyer integrated key transfers and top-tier freshmen, creating a balanced and highly efficient squad.

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Exceeding Expectations: Analyzing Scheyer’s Tenure

Reflecting on Scheyer's three-year tenure, Parrish asserts that Scheyer has not only met but exceeded expectations. With an astounding 89 wins across three seasons, Scheyer has positioned Duke as a formidable force in college basketball.

"He's made Duke into his own image, exceeding all expectations with 89 wins and a Final Four appearance." (31:55)

Parrish further praises Scheyer’s strategic acumen:

"Jon was very intentional with how he put together this roster... it’s a well-put-together roster and one of the biggest keys to Duke's success." (27:22)

The duo agrees that Scheyer’s ability to blend star freshmen with strategic transfers has been crucial in maintaining Duke’s elite status, making the potential to win the national championship a reality.

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Predictions and Trivia

In the latter part of the episode, Parrish and Norlander engage in a lively trivia segment, reinforcing their deep knowledge of the teams and players. They discuss Auburn’s familiarity with the other Final Four teams, which could provide a strategic advantage in the championship games.

Parrish confidently predicts:

"I think Florida probably has the edge due to their previous performances against these teams." (37:33)

However, he remains open to surprises, acknowledging the competitiveness of the Final Four matchup.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Parrish and Norlander expressing their excitement for the upcoming Final Four in San Antonio. They highlight the convergence of top-tier talent, strategic coaching, and the evolving landscape of college basketball influenced by the transfer portal. With Jon Scheyer at the helm, Duke stands as a testament to what intentional leadership and strategic player management can achieve, potentially heralding a new era in college basketball.

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Notable Quotes

• "This is indisputably the best Final Four field we've ever had." – Matt Norlander (02:34)
• "Whatever team wins, this will be a worthy champion that is looked upon fondly." – Gary Parrish (04:47)
• "This Final Four reflects where we are in the sport. The transfer portal is now integral to building championship teams." – Matt Norlander (15:18)
• "He's made Duke into his own image, exceeding all expectations with 89 wins and a Final Four appearance." – Gary Parrish (31:55)
• "Jon was very intentional with how he put together this roster... it’s a well-put-together roster and one of the biggest keys to Duke's success." – Gary Parrish (27:22)

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This summary encapsulates the engaging and informative discussions from the March 31, 2025, episode of Eye On College Basketball. Whether you're a seasoned fan or new to the excitement of college basketball, Parrish and Norlander provide valuable insights into one of the most compelling Final Fours in history and the remarkable rise of Jon Scheyer as Duke’s head coach.

Transcript

[Gary Parrish]

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[Gary Parrish]

Hey there Gary Parrish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports I Own College Basketball podcast here on CBS Sports Network where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, dodo birds and leaky black. Matt. Norlander is here with me. We're going to be here for the next hour helping you get ready for the 2025 Final Four that is now all set for San Antonio, Auburn, Florida, Duke, Houston. All four number one seeds have advanced to the Final Four for just the second time in history. Norlander, good to see you again. I know some folks are bothered by the lack of a true Cinderella in this Final Four, but I'm not. Some have called it the best Final Four ever, at least on paper. Let's start by asking you if you agree with that sentiment.

[Unknown]

I agree with it. I mean I said the sentiment on on our Sunday night pod. I think I was the first one. Listen, I was the first one to report that the first Final Four with 41 seeds happened in 2008 in San Antonio, I was the first one to report that this would be the second time this would happen. And I was the first one to report that this is the best Final Four field we've ever had. And in addition to just being 41 seeds and being for the top 10 Ken Palm teams ever, also consider the fact that the collective efficiency margin of those four teams, Auburn, Duke, Florida, Houston, they also add up to be comfortably the best in the history of, of advanced metrics. So, yeah, we've got a, we've got an incredible field. Doesn't mean we're guaranteed to get one, two or three incredible games. I certainly hope that it leads to that. So this is indisputably the best, but going in the collection of talent here is the best over and I'm super excited for it. You know, just, just to see the, the variety of storylines and, and ways that we could see any member of these teams winning two more games to win it all is really cool. And also, Paris, this does feel appropriate just in that these have been the four best teams. And oftentimes you don't necessarily get a tournament that provides you a champion that is also the best team. But no matter what team wins, pick any of these four, whatever team wins, they will have the rightful claim to have been the best team in the country this season by pure nature of the fact that they're going to have to go through two of the best teams in the country on the final weekend of the season in order to do so. So even if, like, just as a pure example, Florida was the last number one seed that got it, you know, Auburn was the number one overall seed, Florida's fourth in that if Florida beats the number one overall seed for a second time this season and then beats either the top seeded Duke team or the top ranked Duke team at metrics, or beats a Houston team that has the number one defense in the country, like Florida, in that scenario will be able to claim that it was the best team in the country. It's not a situation in which you could have a potential champion who got hot, was really, really good, maybe not the best. This one will have a claim to be the best no matter what.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, whatever team wins, this will be a worthy champion that is looked upon fondly. And I think it's also true that any of the four can reasonably win this. And I know that might sound silly to some, like, oh, really? Any of the teams in the Final Four could win the Final Four, but it's not always true. And that's why I don't mind a lack of a Cinderella. Like I can get excited about any storyline, put it in front of me, I'll figure out a way to be interested in it. But the truth is when George Mason went to a Final Four wonderful story. People will talk about it forever. Norlander has written thousands of words about it. I knew once I got to that Final four there was no way they were winning two more games. So we really at that point only have three teams that could reasonably win the Final four. Same thing goes for vcu, Loyola, Chicago. I don't want to say every so called mid major or Cinderella because like Butler really did almost win two games and and pull off the classic forever Cinderella story. But for the most part when you have the the Cinderella's make it to on tap as a lopsided game, what is on tap as a likely blowout? And even if it's not a likely blowout, it is. It is wildly unlikely that you're watching a potential national champion. You know how this story ends. So I love this Final Four because we don't have any of that. I could talk through any combination of wins and losses with these four teams. This team wins game one, this team wins game two. Okay, now let's flip it. Okay, now let's flip it again. Now these two are playing Monday night. Now these two are playing Monday night. This team wins. That team wins. There is no combination on this Rubik's cube of basketball outcomes that doesn't make sense to me. It should be awesome. Who knows if we'll get three great games, but we are certainly in a better position than we usually are at the final Four to get three great games.

[Unknown]

Yeah, and that'll be aided, you would think, by the fact that these are the only four teams in the country that rank number top 10 in offensive and defensive efficiency. Now if you want to put Duke on a separate tier, I think that's fair there. It ranks comfortably as the best team in the field. It's also the only team that's top five or an even specifically top four in offensive and defensive efficiency. Blue Devils have the number one offense in the country, number four defense. The inverse of that is Houston has the number one defense, 10th in offense. The next best team is Auburn in terms of highest ranking across both of those. Auburn is third on offense, eighth on defense, and then Florida, number two offense in the country and number 10 in adjusted defensive efficiency. These teams are on a tier unto themselves collectively 135 and 16, which is not the best collective Record and winning percentage of any group of four going into a Final Four, but. But is obviously pretty close there overall. Gp which team? Curious whether you want to just narrow this? I'll let you answer it how you want to answer it. Specifically with the path in the tournament or over the past six, eight, 10 weeks, which team's journey to get to the Final Four impresses you most? Is it, is it Duke coming out of the weak ACC but doing what it did in the tournament? It has the greatest margin of victory through four games. Is it Houston, you know, winning the Big 12, sweeping it, only having one loss in the league by one point at home against Texas Tech and then taking the toughest possible seed route on way to doing it in Indianapolis? Is it Florida, which really came on strong at the end of the season and into the SEC tournament and then was able to win an escape, you know, escape hatch fashion against Texas Tech and the way that it did it with Walter Clayton Jr. Or is it Auburn, which has been able to reverse its trends and after looking really dominant for the first two and a half, three months of the season, is stumbling down the stretch in the regular season in the SEC Tournament, but then regaining its form and, you know, clinching it pretty convincingly against Michigan State. To you, just which, which one impresses you the most of those four?

[Gary Parrish]

Well, I think you can argue Duke has been the most impressive team just from an efficiency perspective, like the numbers are the numbers, right? What they are doing to people is what they are doing to people. But in terms of being impressed by a path, by what you've actually accomplished, like the teams you've pushed to the side, it's Houston, they've won 17 straight games. They only lost in regulation once all season. It happened in November. Those 17 straight wins have come against 12 NCAA tournament teams or 11 NCAA tournament teams. But they beat Baylor twice. So 12 of the 17 wins are against NCAA Tournament teams. What Kelvin Sampson has done with this first program, but specifically this team is like all time great stuff. So obviously Todd golden getting Florida to a place where it could win a game on the road against the outright SEC champ and the number one overall seed in the NCAA Tournament and then turning that into an SEC Tournament championship and then turning that into a trip to the Final Four, obviously, that's awesome stuff. The, the story at Duke is, you know, 15 straight wins, just absolutely embarrassing. Good basketball teams like what they did that Alabama was super impressive, but in terms of the path, I think it's got to be Houston. What do you think?

[Unknown]

I would agree with you. Apologies, by the way. Yeah, yeah, the old throat. It's coming up on me a flu game here. We're going to make it happen over the next next hour or so. I agree, I would say Houston with how it has been able to do this over the course of specifically like the past like six, eight weeks and then going to Indy, having to get past Gonzaga and being dominant. Yeah, that's my answer.

[Gary Parrish]

The other thing about this Final Four, then we'll move on. It's not just we have the four best teams. We've got the two national player of the year candidates and arguably the three best players. I submitted my ballots for CBS Sports All America teams, National player of the year, National Coach of the Year earlier today and the first three names I put on my first team All America ballot were Cooper Flag, Janai Broome and Walter Clayton. And all three of those guys are going to be in San Antonio at the Final Four as well. So star studded on paper, you can't really expect to do any better than this. Four number one seeds, the best players in the country and yes, one of these coaches is going to become a first time national championship. Doesn't get better than this. Can't wait to get to San Antonio when we come back. Some have argued that the transfer portal is the worst thing in the history of college sports. But I wouldn't try telling that to Auburn or Florida or Houston because each of those teams best players leading scores at least were obtained through the transfer portal. Is it actually making basketball better? I'm going to ask Norlander that after this break and if he can talk, we'll get his answer. It's the Ion College Basketball Podcast. We're on CBS Sports Network.

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[Gary Parrish]

There welcome back to the Iron College Basketball Podcast, CBS Sports Network. Lots of interesting aspects to this Final Four. One of them is that three of the teams have leading scorers who began their college careers somewhere else. Norlander this isn't just a Final Four with four number one seeds. It's also a Final Four with three teams led by Division one transfers. Auburn's denied Broom started at Morehead State. Florida's Walter Clayton started at Iona. Houston's LJ Crier started at Baylor. What, if anything, do you draw from these facts?

[Unknown]

I think there's something to it. I think this will be the norm moving forward. We also have that we've got the blend of it all. So you've also got Duke Cooper flag. You've got a star freshman, a one and done NBA player. So you've kind of got a good reflection GP of where the college game is right now. And think about the Crier started in the Big 12 at Baylor. So a transfer from a high major, high major to high major and you've got two lower level guys and Clayton specifically. I mean it's, it is wild to think back. I did a story on Patino when he was at Iona and thinking like, no, I was in practice with him. I sat in Patino's Iona offices with Walter Clayton Jr. And just to think back on that just a couple years ago and see where he is now, it's pretty, it's pretty awesome, pretty cool. But yeah, I do think that this is just going to be part of it. It's just, it's a function of having so many transfers in the sport. Not a bad thing. But as we speak right now there's, you know, we're approaching 2,000 players in the Portal and every staff that's not coaching in the tournament is trying to find their next guy to do this very thing.

[Gary Parrish]

You say not a bad thing and I agree with you. But I'm not sure college basketball fans, broadly speaking, agree with us because this is a time of the year where, yes, we're playing the NCAA tournament and the bracket is unfolding and we're headed to San Antonio for the Final Four. And yes, coaches are changing jobs and getting fired and getting h. But among the other biggest topics in the sport right now is the transfer portal. And all over the country players are leaving, in some cases big schools to go to smaller schools, but in many cases smaller schools to go to bigger schools. And the most obvious example of this in recent days is Donovan Dent, who is the Mountain West Conference Player of the year star at New Mexico, is transferring to ucla. He grew up in Riverside, California, not too far away from the UCLA campus. So after being mostly a mid major recruit coming out of high school, he spends multiple years at New Mexico, develops into the Mountain West Conference player of the year and then is reportedly offered in excess of $2 million to possibly, I mean, to play basketball in the Big Ten next season. And some look at that and, and believe it's the worst thing in the world. I look at it and think it's amazing that a young man who really didn't have much more than mid major options or Mountain West Conference level options out of high school, worked hard, developed and became something that a Big Ten program was interested in and is now going to again reportedly make millions of dollars playing college basketball next season. Like in my mind, that is an awesome story. And just to connect it back to this Final Four, if Janai Broome never leaves Morehead State, and I know, I assume, I guess, that some people at Morehead State were not happy when he did that, but if Janai Broome never leaves Morehead State, he never gets this experience that we're all watching happen right now. You know, if Walter Clayton never leaves Iona, and I bet you there were some Iota fans that were upset when he did, but if he never leaves there, he doesn't get this opportunity to maybe go out, win two more games to be the most outstanding player in a Final Four. As I posted on Twitter, I guess it was late last night, early this morning. Every successful person I know has left their first job out of high school for a bigger and a bigger job that pays more. Like that's a pretty normal trajectory. And I know it's not quite apples to apples because we're talking about college athletics, but where it is similar is I'm never going to be not happy for somebody who improves their place in life in whatever way they think they're doing. That when Donovan Dent came out of high school, the best place for him given his options at that time might have genuinely been New Mexico. But he now has new options and they're lucrative options. And I don't get offended when he or any other player takes advantage of them. I'm happy for them and I'm happy for Jani Broom leaving Morehead State, Walter Clayton leaving Iona, and LJ Cryer once upon a time leaving Baylor. I'm happy that players are now freed up to do what coaches have been doing forever, which is doing the best job they can do at the job that they have. But when better opportunities present themselves, more lucrative opportunities present themselves, taking advantage of it. That is the story of college athletics for as long as I've been alive. Now it is also in many ways the story of of college basketball players and college football players. And people can be mad about it if they want to, but I'm not going to be hypocritical. I'll be consistent on this. I'm happy when people advance themselves in this world. And that's all Donovan Dent did this past weekend and it is all Janai Broom and at least Walter Clayton as well did at one point in their college basketball careers.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think this is just going to be how it will be. You saw two years ago. I'm not going to give you every team but like North Shadow Mere was a dominant low major player. He was on the Miami team that made the Final Four. You had Grant Nelson and Mark Sears on the Bama team. Yes, this season they fell one game short, but a season ago they were in the Final Four. Sears at Ohio, Nelson at North Dakota, UConn, Tristan Newton, East Carolina. Look what he did. Camp Spencer. Look what he did on the title winning teams. Even Duke this season has C on James, a transfer from Tulane. They also brought in Mason Gillis from Purdue, Malik Brown from Syracuse. If you're going to make a Final Four, you're probably, probably going to have figure out a way to pluck a player from another program in the portal. That is a very intentional specific additive fit. At least one, if not two given the way that the sport is built and how rosters are managed. And obviously if you can have an NBA level, let alone a Cooper flag, forget about that. Just a lottery level, first round level talent that will go a long way as well. I think the, the combination of roster builds we have in this final 4 HP are really reflective of where we are in the sport. And it would surprise me if we get to the 2026, 2027, 2028 Final Four and, and every roster or nearly every roster didn't have the same exact thing. I just think this is where we are and it's, there's a reason why the portal is like it is right now and, and the Final Four reflects it.

[Gary Parrish]

A bunch of great stories at the Final Four connected to players. We just detailed some of them. Also great stories connected to the coaches. All four of them have interesting life stories. I want to focus on John Shires next. He has Duke, his alma mater, in the Final Four at the age of 37. Norlander had a nice story on him that published this weekend that detailed how he could have instead right now been the coach at DePaul or even UNLV. I'm going to get Norlander to share that story with us next. You're watching the Ion California Podcast. We're on the CBS Sports Network. Pro baller Lonzo Ball for Buzz balls.

[Unknown]

Ready to go. Cocktails take 12 buzz balls just dropped.

[Gary Parrish]

Their biggest blue ball. Script says bigg blue balls.

[Unknown]

Lonzo take 13 blue balls just dropped.

[Gary Parrish]

Their biggest buzz balls. Let's try a vocal exercise. Buzz balls, Biggies.

[Unknown]

Blue balls.

[Gary Parrish]

Buzz balls. Biggies. Blue balls.

[Unknown]

Big balls just drop. Get blue balls. This season with buzz balls you're responsibly.

[Gary Parrish]

Buzz balls available in spirit, wine and malt, 15% Alco Bavo and Bus Balls LLC. Carrollton, Texas welcome back to the Iron College Basketball Podcast. CBS Sports Network. John Shier has Duke in the Final Four at the age of 37. It's just his third season as a head coach at his alma mater. He is two wins away from his first national championship and the Blue Devils are the favorite in the betting markets to win this 2025 NCAA tournament. Norlander, you spent some time with them this weekend and wrote about how close he was to maybe not even be in the Duke coach right now because there before he was the Duke coach, he wanted to be the DePaul coach. Wanted it to be the UNLV coach. Couldn't land either of those jobs. Expand on that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's crazy to think about now. So Shire so basically over the course of nearly two weeks four years ago, UNLV became open in an option first. So the UNLV process took longer than the DePaul process. He talked with UNLV first and was uncertain at the start whether or not he was going to get that job. Now, keep in mind, this is. He's, like, seven years into being an assistant at Duke at this point. He's won a national championship. I'll be back in 2015. And at this moment, like, Mike Shashevsky privately maybe has not crossed the goal line of deciding, I am for sure going to retire, and for sure I only will have one more season. So he hasn't even told John Shire about what he's thinking internally at this point. So for all John Shire knows, Coach K could be coaching another 1, 2, 3, 4 years, who knows how long? And he has no idea that he might even be the next Duke coach that's not even on the table. So he goes to the UNLV process. Then DePaul comes along, and DePaul gets much more aggressive, much more quickly. And so in the middle of unlv, here comes to Paul. And then Shire gets into a mode where, like, okay, maybe UNLV won't happen, but DePaul certainly seems like it's going to happen. He's from Chicago, interviews there. He gets really confident that he's going to get this job privately, you know, just like. And, you know, I think even on some level, like, it is DePaul, like, would he have absolutely 100% have taken it if offered, given where he was on the Duke staff? He told me not definitely, definitely, but he was. He was thinking. Literally, the quote in my story was like, I was thinking I was going to be the next coach at DePaul. DePaul says, no, the hire Tony Subplo. But the UNLV process is still ongoing at this point. So then for, you know, one, two, three days, him and his wife at that point think, okay, DePaul didn't work out, but UNLV seems like it's going to. And they, like, mentally got themselves into a place where they, like, okay, we could. We could. We could do this. Like, we could see ourselves in Las Vegas. And then he doesn't get the UNLV job either. They give it to Kevin Krueger. So he goes from this headspace of, like, this really might happen, like, I might finally. You know, he was young. He still is young. The dude's 37. This is when he was 33. But he gets in this spot of, like, maybe I will be a head coach to. To not getting it. And then less than two months later, Mike Shashefsky pulls all of his assistants into his office and basically says, you know, I'm going to retire. I. This decision is final. I will coach one more year. There'll be a process in terms of getting the next head coach. And then they. That process played out. And lo and behold, Shire wins. Wins the job. And it is wild to think that had he gotten either of those other two jobs, I think it's entirely possible that if he had been at DePaul or been at UNLV, because some people have said, well, Duke would have just hired him back. I actually don't think that's the case because chances are, DePaul UNLV1, if they weren't good in year one, he wouldn't have been the candidate. If they were decent or better in year one, he probably would not have just bailed right away and been the automatic pick for Duke. It's conceivable, maybe, but I actually don't think that would have been the case. I think the way for John Shire to be the next head coach at Duke was to be told no by UNLV and DePaul gets the job here. And the bigger point of the story that I wrote on Late, Late Late Saturday night, effectively Sunday morning, really was he has made Duke into his own image. In many ways, this has gone. He has exceeded expectations. Now, this team's expectation is to win a national championship. I get all that. But when you look at what he's done over the course of three years, 89 wins, making a final Four, he's got one of the best rated Duke teams ever. It's pretty remarkable. And it reflects well on his personality and how he deals with his players, how he deals with the media, how he deals with people. He's just, he's extremely competitive, but he's also an easy guy to talk to, very easy to talk to. And many people in his position, Parrish, I don't think, would have had success and they wouldn't have nearly the amount of success. It's all. Too many folks are rolling their eyes like it's Duke. I'm just telling you that is not an easy job to take. I'm. I quote people in the story that reflect the same. It is not easy to take over a job with that much pressure. You can argue that what Shire has done right now, if he gets two more wins, you could really make the. The slam dunk case that this has been the best succession plan of any program, I think, in American sports, if he gets the title. But even short of that, it's been. It's been awesome. So that's Kind of a big picture view on it. And to see him make this Final Four, he was recruiting that team. He was very intentional. The story also gets into like, you know, Seon James was not being recruited in the portal by five other blue blood programs. He knew Malik Brown, Seon James, Mason Gillis, they were three players with three different skill sets. He had this huge freshman class coming in. He knew the exact roles that he wanted to fill on this team and it has worked out gloriously. And if anything, he doesn't get quite enough credit just yet. Maybe the Final Four will give him this GP for how intentional and how smart he is when it comes to roster building and how making all those pieces fit works so well.

[Gary Parrish]

To me, that's the most impressive thing. I have noticed over the years that college basketball tends to be several years behind the NBA in almost everything. The on the court product, the off the court stuff. So in the NBA there becomes a heavy emphasis on three point shooting and college basketball lags behind that. Now it you're starting to see it more and more, but the numbers always are a few years behind. Similarly, for years, decades college basketball coaches would just go out and recruit like let's go get as many five stars as we can or as many athletes as we can and let's just get a big recruiting class and once we get everybody on campus, then we'll try to figure out how it works. But like right now we're just. This is an oversimplification store. But it was a lot of just like talent collecting and then figure it out. In the NBA that is not how they do it anymore in part because you can't with second aprons and taxes and salary caps. You have to be really smart and intentional with how you roster build. And that is the most impressive thing I think John's done with this team. He was very intentional with how he put together this roster. Yes, it starts with getting the three lottery picks, I understand, but what do you put with the lottery picks? That's where you get into the transfer portal and you just don't take the best transfers available. You take the best transfers available that you can get that fit perfectly with the stars you've already got. He did that arguably as well as anybody else in the country. And if Duke wins a national championship, that's going to be among the biggest reasons why the way he very intentionally built a roster that fit well together. Yes, it's also the most talented roster in the country because of Cooper Flagg, Kamamoli, Watch Konkanipple but it's. It's a well put together roster, and that's the biggest key, or at least among the biggest keys to Duke's success. As for the what if game, I do think the most likely scenario, if he takes the ends up with the DePaul job or the UNLV job, is that he struggles in year one, and then it's just harder for Duke to bring him back because people get fixated on the record. How can you hire somebody who just lost this many games at DePaul or UNLV? It as an assistant coach, you're just a blank slate. You're just somebody's imagination. But once you have wins and losses attached to your name, certain people get caught up on that. I would advise Duke, in that moment, if you still think he's the guy, don't get caught up on what just happened at DePaul or UNLV. If you still think he's the guy, go hire him. But I'm just telling you, it would have been a harder everything to do it had he lost games somewhere else. I don't think he would have been hesitant about coming back after one year if that would have been offered to him. Like, if you're the head coach at UNLV for a year and Duke wants you to come back home, you go back home. You're the head coach at DePaul for a year, Duke wants you to come back home, you go back home. That's. That's Lane Kiffin at Tennessee going back to. To USC after one year in Knoxville. You just got to do it because you. You don't even know how to say no. But I do think he benefited from not getting the DePaul job and not getting the UNLV job. And there's a lesson in there for all of us. We're not all basketball coaches, but we are people who, you know, pursue things within our careers and professions. And I know that sometimes when you're chasing something, when you want something and you don't get it, you see it go to somebody else. Sometimes, perhaps somebody you don't think is as deserving, it can beat you down a little bit. You start to question yourself sometimes, you know, it. It can work out even better for you. The disappointment leads to even better things. Not always. I don't want to fill you with false promises, but. But I can tell you a million stories of people I know, and John Shire would be one of them, of this job opportunity didn't go their way. This job opportunity didn't go their way. They were starting to ask some questions, maybe starting to doubt themselves, maybe starting to, I don't know, just feel a certain kind of way. And then boom, you look up and the things that you hated when they didn't happen for you actually turn out to be something that doubles as a blessing in disguise. And now he's 37 years old, two wins away from bringing another national championship to his alma mater. And again in the betting markets, at least Duke is the favorite to do that.

[Unknown]

I have one quick question before we go to break for you. Has, in your opinion, has John Scheyer exceeded expectations through three seasons? And I'll just quick context, then you let me know. Year one got a five seed, 27 nine, knocked out in the second round by a quality Tennessee team, but didn't lose a home game that season. And Duke that season finished third in the ACC. Year two, NC wins the ACC, Duke gets beaten the ACC tournament by NC State, then gets knocked out of the NCAA tournament as a 4 seed in the Elite 8 by NC State. Knocked on the door the Final Four, they lost by double digits. And then year three, Duke is 35 and three. One seed rates best in predictive metrics, most of them anyway. And we see where it is now. Has been able to bring in all this talent here. Has he, has he met expectations or has he exceeded them?

[Gary Parrish]

I think it was debatable coming into this season because they squandered a great opportunity to get to a Final Four. I mean, it was right there for the taking against a team inferior to you and you couldn't get it done. So coming into year three, I think you could argue it, you know, a variety of ways. As we sit here on March 31, 2025, like what are we talking about? You saw the graphic. He is one more win away from winning more games in his first three years than anybody in the history of Division 1 men's basketball coaching. Like if you can't honestly say that's meeting expectations, then what are your expectations for something other? For him to be something greater than the most, the winningest coach in the history of college basketball through three season seasons. It will be helpful if he wins this national championship because if he loses another game, this is just a fact. If he loses another game, it'll flip around pretty quickly and people will say, well, two straight years he lost as a favorite in the NCAA tournament. Like that will be a thing. But I, I know I'm with you on the. Yeah, I'll, I'll roll my eyes as well, the guy's won 89 games through three years. He built the team that is now the favorite to win a national championship. And I know that it is easier to do this stuff at Duke than it is, let say UNLV or DePaul. But if you think anybody can just take the reins of an incredible program and keep it operating at an incredible level, go talk to Villanova fans, go talk to North Carolina fans, go talk to Indiana fans. Just about every college basketball program, even the very best, can be taken to a bad place quickly with the wrong hire. As it is, Duke had to replace a legend, and they've done it with a guy who at the age of 37, has him two wins away from a national championship this season.

[Unknown]

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One offer per account. Welcome back in for one more quickie segment. Gp Are you ready for a trivia time?

[Gary Parrish]

Okay, let's go.

[Unknown]

Okay, trivia time. Which Final Four team this season has faced all other Final Four teams this season?

[Gary Parrish]

That's going to be your Auburn Tigers.

[Unknown]

The Auburn Tigers have faced every Final Four team. Trivia time part two. When's the last time a Final Four featured a team that had faced all the other Final Four teams?

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, that was clearly. That was obviously. That was so obviously 2012.

[Unknown]

You know what? You're pretty close. 2014 Florida that season at the Final Four and played UConn, Wisconsin and Kentucky that very same season. Here's my question for you. Auburn beat Houston. Remember how they be Houston with. With the plane incident. I sure hope we get some plane incident stuff. By the way, this week, can we get some recollection?

[Gary Parrish]

I don't know if you've been following the news, but we have enough plain incidents going on in this world lately. I think we should probably try to decrease the number of plane incidents going on. And every time I turn on a television, there's something burning.

[Unknown]

I know, I know, I know. Well, regardless, Auburn beat Houston lost that. Cameron lost to Florida. Will Auburn. Here's my question for you before we get out of here. Will Auburn have benefited or will benefit from the fact that it has a familiarity with these teams on the level that the other three don't. At the same, you know, Duke has played Auburn, but there's no guarantee that they'll face off in the title game.

[Gary Parrish]

Yes, I think you, you do gain something from that. Other coaches have told me you gained something from that. Mark Few specifically go back to that national championship game against Baylor. Remember, Baylor and Gonzaga were supposed to play earlier in that season. And Mark genuinely believes that if they'd have played that game, they would have had a better sense in the national championship game for the physicality and athleticism that Baylor was going to bring to the court. Mark Few genuinely believe that if Gonzaga got to play Baylor early, it would have helped him play Baylor late. So, yes, I think you have to draw some positives from it and believe that it's an advantage. Do you think so?

[Unknown]

I do think so. Okay, so then one more quick thing. We're going to pick the games on tomorrow's show. Florida having looked as good as it did against Auburn here, which, you know, which side, just from a prep standpoint, do you give the edge to their Florida or Auburn?

[Gary Parrish]

I think Florida probably because you feel like, hey, we've handled these guys pretty easily before. We did it in their building. We can do it again. If you know we can, we can do that again. I think Florida has an advantage, but that doesn't mean I can't see Auburn winning the game. As always. We'll see. Shouts to David Downey, Justin, South Carolina, Terry Teagle, he's a legend. Huck and Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching the Island College Basketball Podcast. We're going to be back Tomorrow, same time, 1:00 Eastern, right here on CBS Sports Network. We'll talk to you then.

[Unknown]

Paramount Podcast.

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