Houston is 34-4 all-time in the Big 12, Kelvin Sampson explains how | College Basketball

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Eye On College Basketball

Episode: Houston is 34-4 all-time in the Big 12, Kelvin Sampson explains how
Host: Gary Parrish (CBS Sports)
Guest: Coach Kelvin Sampson, Houston Cougars
Date: October 22, 2025

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Overview

In this insightful episode, Gary Parrish sits down with Houston Cougars head coach Kelvin Sampson, fresh off another standout season and remarkable record in the Big 12 conference (34-4 over two years). Sampson reflects on Houston’s near-national title run, the pain and lessons from close tournament defeats, and shares his philosophy on team building, player development, and what sustains him after seven decades in the game. Listeners are treated to a candid conversation about handling pressure, bouncing back from tough losses, evaluating talent, and maintaining perspective on the pursuit of championships.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Meaning of Turning 70

• Parrish begins by wishing Sampson a happy 70th birthday, leading into musings about milestone ages.
• Sampson’s reflection:

  “Ages: 60s become way younger. But 70 and 80 kind of are benchmarks...Once you get to 80, there's a celebration of life. Once you get to 70, you're headed toward it.” (01:12)

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2. Learning from Defeat: National Title Game & NCAA Tournament

• Tape Review & Critiquing Performance

  • Sampson discusses how he's reviewed clips from the national championship loss, emphasizing self-critique and targeted improvement, especially around discipline and mistakes in pivotal moments.
  • He mentions the specific evaluation of Jojo Tugler’s and JVF Francis’s minutes/fouls and the desire to "steal" an excellent play run by the opposing team.
  • Sampson on learning from losses:

    “That game is something as a coach you're going to beat yourself up for...but at some point you've got to say okay, the next time we're in this situation...you just have to learn from it.” (02:05)

  • Gary recounts other coaches’ post-loss self-review, prompting Sampson to detail situational breakdowns — studying four-minute segments to identify what worked and what didn’t, without watching the entire game in full (04:04-06:14).

• Late-Game Execution & Final Moments

  • Parrish asks about the abruptly unfinished feeling when Emmanuel didn’t get a shot off at the final buzzer.
  • Sampson walks through the play design, the decoy, and Walter Clayton Jr.'s remarkable defensive recovery:

    “If you watch this...As the play developed, the guy guarding Emmanuel, just watch it...Milos dribbled right at LJ and the guy that guarded Emanuel went with him. And that's when Emmanuel took off...Little did I know that Walter Clayton Jr. Was going to turn out to be Deion Sanders.” (06:43-09:04)

  • He notes the parallels to tight, last-minute wins over Purdue, Duke, and Kansas:

    “Somebody had to make a great play at the end for us to win those games. And somebody had to make a great play for us at the end of the Florida game. But the guy that made the great play was Walter Clayton Jr.” (09:05)

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3. Sustained Success: 34-4 in the Big 12

• Approach to Conference Play
  • Parrish asks how Houston managed this record when “Nobody's supposed to be 34 and 4, 38 games in the Big 12.”
  • Single-Game Focus, Avoiding Generalizations
    • Sampson avoids framing games around the conference (“never talked about the Big 12”), focusing strictly on the next opponent.
    • On dismissing ‘trap games’ and staying present:

      “I don't ever talk about the next game. I don't believe in the…trap game? Yeah, I don't believe in trap games. They're all important.” (10:47)

    • Sampson details losses to Iowa State and TCU, how the focus always resets to “the next game.”
    • He sees conference “narrative” as largely meaningless day-to-day:

      “Talking about the conference you're in is really the height of generalities...I don't coach against conferences...I coach the next game. And that's how we approach it.” (12:55)

    • He credits the culture of attention to detail and keeping players locked in the moment for Houston’s improbable Big 12 success.

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4. Player Development & Evaluating Guards

• Parrish observes Sampson’s reputation for turning moderate-recruit guards into stars (listing Marcus Sasser, Quentin Grimes, Jamal Shedd, L.J. Cryer, Milos).
• Sampson on Talent Evaluation

  “Most people can identify with the word recruitment, but for us it's evaluation. I think the reason why we've only had four kids transferred in 11 years is we very rarely miss on our evaluation.” (14:09)

  • Houston prioritizes fit and coachability over hype or recruiting stars.
  • The program challenges players honestly and refuses to sugarcoat what their experience will be:

    “I told L.J., this is going to be the most miserable experience of your life. You have to decide whether you want to come here…You've got to make the decision to come here. Because I want to be the best that I can be. I tell them all that, but they have to make the decision. I don't beg them to come.” (15:02)

  • The result is a culture where “our kids stay” and internal expectations drive success.

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5. The Meaning of Championships and Legacy

• Parrish notes Sampson was the top answer among coaches projected to be the next first-time NCAA champion.
• On Recognition vs. Internal Satisfaction

  “Well, the first one, I respect coaches…The impact that coaches can have on these kids is enormous. And I think they need truth tellers more now than ever because the game has become so transactional…” (16:24)

  • Sampson downplays the notion of a national championship as necessary to validate a career. He points out the fleeting nature of trophies and focuses instead on daily interactions, relationships, and the joy of being with his players:

    “I won't miss the fact that I didn't win a national championship. That's a hollow trophy. Nobody remembers those trophies. They get thrown away... But I remember the only conference game we lost was at home to Texas Tech. But Texas Tech deserved to win that game. They should have won. They outplayed us. They took a negative and turned it into a positive. And that's a credit to Grant and his staff.” (16:24-18:48, paraphrased)
    “I heard the coaches [in the gym] and I said, you know what? That's what I'll miss. I won't miss the fact that I didn't win a national championship...every coach…that was a hollow dream probably because I don't know if we were ever going to be good enough to do it...But we got there and it was going to take a hell of a team to beat us and a hell of a team did.” (16:24-19:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Milestones:

  "Once you get to 80, there's a celebration of life. Once you get to 70, you're headed toward it." – Kelvin Sampson (01:12)

• On Handling Defeat:

  "That game is something as a coach you're going to beat yourself up for...but at some point you've got to say okay, the next time we're in this situation, you just have to learn from it." – Kelvin Sampson (02:05)

• On Late-Game Execution:

  "Little did I know that Walter Clayton Jr. Was going to turn out to be Deion Sanders...He went from out of position to making just an unbelievable play." – Kelvin Sampson (08:47)

• On Success in the Big 12:

  “Talking about the conference you're in is really the height of generalities...I coach the next game. And that's how we approach it.” (12:55)

• On Player Recruitment:

  “For us it's evaluation...I told LJ, this is going to be the most miserable experience of your life. You have to decide whether you want to come here…We've won before without you and we'll win without you if you go somewhere else.” – Kelvin Sampson (14:09, 15:02)

• On Legacy and Championships:

  “I won't miss the fact that I didn't win a national championship. That's a hollow trophy. Nobody remembers those trophies. They get thrown away.” (16:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Turning 70 & reflections: 00:43–01:40
• Reviewing the national title loss: 01:40–06:14
• Late-game execution and memorable play: 06:22–09:32
• Houston’s Big 12 success & philosophy: 09:32–13:42
• Developing All-American guards: 13:42–16:00
• Coaching legacy, meaning of championships: 16:00–19:01

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Tone and Takeaway

The conversation is candid, reflective, and deeply insightful—full of wisdom from a coach grounded in fundamentals, accountability, and perspective. Sampson’s humility, honesty about the grind, and focus on relationships over trophies set the tone for a masterclass in building sustainable program culture and personal fulfillment in high-pressure, high-profile college basketball.

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Transcript

[WhatsApp Narrator]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail].

[Gary Parish]

Gary Parish here, CBS Sports. I own college basketball podcast with the head coach of the Houston Cougars, Calvin Sampson. And I gather I owe you a belated happy birthday. You turn 70 years old earlier this month. I bring this up in part just to say congratulations, but also my mother turns 70 years old tomorrow.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

I'm old enough to be your dad.

[Gary Parish]

You are old enough to be my dad. Even if it doesn't look like it. Even if it doesn't look like it. How big of a deal is 70? Do I need to go all out tomorrow?

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's a. There's certain demarcation point. Ages 60s become way younger. But 70 and 80 kind of are benchmarks. You know, once you get to 80, there's a celebration of life. Once you get to 70, you're headed toward it. Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

So I'll fly home and I'll make a big deal of it.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Do it tomorrow night. You know why you should? Because you can.

[Gary Parish]

There you go.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

There you go.

[Gary Parish]

So I was talking to Grant McCaslin earlier and he said that when he got eliminated, his team from the 2025 NCAA tournament, it was by Florida in the Elite Eight.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

In.

[Gary Parish]

He went back that night and watched the tape and has watched it repeatedly since then to just try to make sense of it and learn from it. Because he was up double digits on the eventual national champion. You have a similar story in the national title game. I wonder, have you gone back and visited that tape?

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Just clips. Yeah, I wanted to see. I thought we were very undisciplined to start the game. And then I wanted to, you know, Jojo Tugler only got to play 16 minutes in that game and I wanted to see his fouls. Same with JVF Francis. Then there were certain situations they ran a horns plate I thought was excellent. I watched that because I want to steal it. And then the last three minutes, you know, our team was. What our team was really good at was not beating itself. Means we didn't miss many blockouts. We didn't turn the ball over in key moments, didn't turn the ball over, made free throws. We did Some things there that little bit uncharacteristic but you know, those are. That game is something as, as a coach you're going to beat yourself up for or. But at some point you've got to say okay, the next time we're in this situation, whether it's the Big 12 Conference tournament or championship game in the players era tournament or this game or that game, you just have to learn from it. And that every experience, good, bad or indifferent is part of the experience and, and I'm just thankful to have had the chance to do that.

[Gary Parish]

Was interesting you put it that way because Grant actually said I have learned something from it. And he said I look back on it and I wasn't comfortable with my offense, defense, substitutions late in that game. And that's something I will be more aware of next time I'm in that spot.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

That.

[Gary Parish]

Is there anything specific that you learned from watching that?

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

You know, if you're going to run your offense through your post guys, whether it be a low post elbow, three point line, you know, we, we have all this crazy terminology, we call them booms and zooms is, is make sure you have multiple guys that can do it. That's not easy to do. But being able to play through the booms with Jojo was a big part of LJ's offense because LJ wasn't as good in the pick and roll as he was a boom. Milos was good at, he was better at the pick and roll. Emmanuel was better in the middle. So I kind of knew where all our strengths were. But just being more diversified on, on offense and make sure our kids understand that. Don't be afraid to miss, man. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. You know shot selection, shot selection is never going to be perfect because of sometimes you're going to play a good defensive team and Florida was a really good defensive team. You know they had so many really good individual players but that team was extremely well coached, very disciplined. But they all could guard. Martin could guard, you know, he could, he could really guard the depth of their post guys. As long as we could have either Javier or Jojo on the floor, I felt we were fine. Right. But you know, we had a stretch there. We, they both were in foul trouble and we couldn't keep them on the floor, so. But nothing you can do about that either. But the opportunity in breaking down the four minute segments, what, what did we run out of the first 60 minute timeout? How did we get the 10 point lead or 12 point lead, whatever it was what did we look like from the 12 to 8? You know, you'll pick. Pick apart. I haven't watched the whole game, but I've watched 12 to 8.

[Gary Parish]

Gotcha.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

I watched 16 to 12, then I watched 8 to 4. Then you say, you know what, we can get better here. We've got to get better there. So that's the way I've looked at it.

[Gary Parish]

Emmanuel didn't get the shot off at the buzzer. And sort of my main memory, or among the memories from that night is just it. There's a certain rhythm to a basketball game, particularly the end, and you just expect to see a shot go at the rim. And when that doesn't. It just felt abruptly over. The game felt abruptly over. How do you remember that moment?

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

I just. The. The finality of it all. Yeah. You know, I remember the Purdue game, calling timeout and working on. We had worked on that same situation through the. Through the third option. Very rarely ever going to get to a fourth, but you can get to a third and then. But Milos knew he had to get both feet in balance quickly, just in case. You never know. But that play was made because of JoJo Tugler. So now. And you're forcing those decisions a lot during the season, especially on the road. And we were a really, really good team in close games. You know, the way the Duke game unfolded, the game at Kansas, the way that unfolded at Central Florida, and I could go on and on. Seems like every game you play on the road is going to come down to the last two minutes, to the last minute. So we had had a wealth of experience in those same moments. And every coach has a package of actions in his pocket that he can just pull up because, okay, here's who's guarding who. Start there. Then you go, here's the action that I think we can get. Then, you know, you're going to get a shot. It's just a matter where it goes in or not. So we ran a misdirection. If you go back and look at the play, if you watch this, the. As the play developed, the guy guarding Emmanuel, just watch it. You know, we sent LJ over the top as a decoy, and for a point guard to really sell an action, he's got to sell it with his eyes. You know, he can't be looking at his secondary. He's got to sell the primary. And so Emmanuel, I'm sorry, Milos dribbled right at LJ and that the guy that guarded Emanuel went with him. And that's when Emmanuel took off so if you look at how much separation he had, that's why he turned to shoot it. Little did I know that Walter Clayton Jr. Was going to turn out to be Deion Sanders.

[Gary Parish]

He could recover like that.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

And on the flight of that ball, by the time he called it, got squared up, cocked it and loaded it, he went from out of position to making just an unbelievable play. But that's just like the Purdue game or the Duke game or the Kansas game for us. Somebody had to make a great play at the end for us to win those games. And somebody had to make a great play for us at the end of the Florida game. But the guy that made the great play was Walter Clayton Jr.

[Gary Parish]

So let's talk about the positive. It didn't end the way you wanted, but you were in the game and good enough to win it. You're also 34 and 4 in the Big 12 in the past two years since moving over from the American. How do you make sense of that? Nobody's supposed to be 34 and 4, 38 games in the Big 12.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Yeah. I think one of the things that most players will feed off their coach and how he handles things. So there's always a summer narrative with every team. Right. So our narrative that summer was, how will you guys do going into the Big 12? Our first summer? And that's really an unanswerable question. So I don't know. I don't know. But we're not playing the Big 12. We don't even know our schedule yet. So when I talked to our team, I never mentioned the Big 12. When the schedule came out in September, early September, I think our first game was against West Virginia at home. So instead of the Big 12, we were playing West Virginia. I never talked about anything else. We're playing West Virginia.

[Gary Parish]

So just to put it in, one year you might be playing East Carolina. So you talk about East Carolina, the next year you play in West Virginia. That's what we're going to talk about.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Absolutely. That's just the way I've always handled it. And that's not coach speak. Go ask any player that's ever played. For me, I don't ever talk about the next game. I don't believe in the. What do you call a game that you're supposed to win and you have a letdown and trap game? Yeah, I don't believe in trap games. They're all important. It's our next game that's way more important. Any games not the last one? Or is this game. So if you Watch us play a 40 minute game on Tuesday in the middle of November. You're going to see the best we can play that night. And then we get to the next one. I think the next one that year was at Iowa State. We had a chance to win it. Monsilovich hit a fallaway three. We lost by two. And I'm not sure we played good enough to win that game, though. So we're one in one. Lost the United States at the end of the world. Now the next one bothered me because we're playing at TCU and. And we had to really, really work hard to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory in that one. And we did. And so now we're one and two. And so you got 18 games. We played three. So we have what, 15 left. And I think in the next 15 we went 14 one. But we did it because who was our next one? Not the Big 12. It's the next games, the next team. And then last year, I don't remember what we started, but that, that team was 4 and 3 coming out of November. But our next game was Butler at home. Butler's going to get the best version of us that we could possibly give and then we'll figure out who we play next. But I remember the only conference game we lost was at home to Texas Tech. But Texas Tech deserved to win that game. They should have won. They outplayed us. They took a negative and turned it into a positive. And that's a credit to Grant and his staff. And then after that, you know, we went on another roll. But, you know, talking about the conference you're in is really the height of generalities because each conference represented by schools and each school has a coach and each school has a starting five. They have a sixth man, they have a seventh man. So I don't coach against conferences, I don't coach against teams in the conference. I coach the next game. And that's how we approach it. We played Gonzaga. I knew if we didn't play good, we were going to lose that game because they got a Hall of Fame coach, they got a Hall of Fame tradition program and. And they forced us to have to play good. So I think that's the 34 and 4. I hear that. It doesn't even make sense to me. I mean, I mean, how do you. Who does that? How do you do that? But I think we do it because our players never hear me talk about anything but the scout report for the next game.

[Gary Parish]

One of the things that has become a pattern within Your program is you take these guards and they're obviously talented, but they're not supposed to be one and done. Five stars, future anythings necessarily. And one after another, they become all conference players, all Americans. We're talking Marcus Sasser, Quentin Grimes, Jamal Shedd, L.J. cryer, Milo. Suzanne is the latest. Is there something specific you look for in a guard that you can identify? I can take this and make it into this.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Yeah, we, I, I don't. Very rarely. I know what recruiting is. Most people can identify with the word recruitment, but for us it's evaluation. I think the reason why we've only had four kids transferred in 11 years is we very rarely miss on our evaluation. Now we've recruited kids. The longer we watch them play, we realize it's not good fit for him. So it's not good for him. I don't care what he's rated. I don't care what other people think. I care what I think and I care about that kid too. It's not. He's going to transfer. Our kids stay. Now we find out how they fit. And then when I say challenge and demand, Gary, that's part of the evaluation. And I told lj lj, this is going to be the most miserable experience of your life. You have to decide whether you want to come here. You know, we've won before without you and we'll win without you if you go somewhere else. But you've got to make the decision to come here. Because I want to be the best that I can be. I tell them all that, but they have to make the decision. I don't beg them to come. I said, we got a great opportunity. We think you're this good. We think you can be here, but we're going to put you through it. And you got to decide whether you want to do it and whether it was Jamal. Marcus was like 290something. Jamal's like 180. LJ wouldn't even sniff us because we weren't very good when he was in high school and I was at a lot of his games, so. But our program is, is an honest program because we are what we are. We don't try to be what we're not because we're really good at being who we are because we know who we are.

[Gary Parish]

Last thing before I get you out of here. We did a candid coaches series this [e-mail] and we asked more than 100 college coaches. Who do you think is going to be the next first time national champion? And Even though you were on the verge of turning 70, they said it was you.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

They believe in you. What does that mean to you? And how much does it matter whether you retire with the national championship or not?

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

Well, the first one, I respect coaches, I think, because I was a coach's kid. You know, the impact that coaches can have on these kids is enormous. And I think they need truth tellers more now than ever because the game has become so transactional with the portal and nil and all that stuff. Like this morning my alarm went off, I think at 4:40 because my wife's not here. She's back in North Carolina. So I have to get him to take care of Roxy, that's my dog. And so got up and walked Roxy and fed her, went and walked her again. Then by the time I got up to the gym, it was probably about 5:15, 5:20. And when I walked in the gym, all I could hear was our players and I heard the coaches and I said, you know what? That's what I'll miss. I won't miss the fact that I didn't win a national championship. That's a hollow trophy. Nobody remembers those trophies. They get thrown away. Think about all the great things that Coach Guy V. Lewis did. I have no idea where his trophies are. They're somewhere in some building under something. And every coach, especially when I was at Washington State, that was a hollow dream probably because I don't know if we were ever going to be good enough to do it. Oklahoma, the year that we got to the Final Four, I thought we were good enough to win it that year because we had beat Maryland, we beat Kansas, and that was year. Indiana upset Duke. And so we had a path, but we didn't get it done. You know, credit to them. And then the year we went to the first Final Four, we weren't good enough. Baylor was better than us. And then 22 when I had Josh Carlton and Fabian, Kyler, evers, Taje, Reggie J1, Jamal, Marcus Sasser broke his foot that year. Had Marcus stayed healthy, I thought that team couldn't win it. They were good enough and I thought this team could win it. Last year's team, I thought we were good enough. I, I, I didn't think that until the middle of February because once we got to February, we were one heartbeat. Takes a while to get there. But we got there and it was going to take a hell of a team to beat us and a hell of a team did.

[Gary Parish]

Kevin, it's always good to talk to you. I appreciate your time than.

[Coach Kelvin Sampson]

You can be anything. This.

[WhatsApp Narrator]

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