Gary Parrish (2:58)

careful with this Jamba Juice. You got to be careful with Jamba Juice. I've been watching DTF St. Louis on HBO and people's lives went way the wrong direction after meeting at a Jamba Juice. Be careful. Do not order the go getter.

Matt Norlander (3:15)

Okay. Have no idea what that's about, but duly noted. I'm looking here. I'm going something with mango as soon as this pot's done. Okay. Hubert Dunne at Carolina. I believe when we talked yesterday, I said I would be surprised if this was decided by Tuesday night. The reason why I said that was at that time, quite literally no one at Carolina other than the co athletic directors, outgoing athletic director Bubba Cunningham and coming athletic director Steve Newmark and the Chancellor. I think at the hour we podcasted, I'm guessing they were the only ones that truly knew that it was going to be last night, that he was going to be let go and he was fired. I mean, he. He refused to resign. So he's going to get paid out in full. I'll try and be as quick on this as possible here. I've got a. I've got a story. I've got a timeline on everything. Josh, let's link that in the description if we can, both audio wise and on YouTube if you really want a real deep dive into a lot of that. Yeah. Hey, YouTube from JFK criminal 4.

Gary Parrish (4:15)

Hi. Wimby will be here tonight.

Matt Norlander (4:21)

Yeah.

Gary Parrish (4:21)

Okay.

Matt Norlander (4:22)

There you go. I had no idea.

Gary Parrish (4:23)

Why would you.

Matt Norlander (4:24)

David Davis left Carolina's facility sometime late afternoon. He then got a call, got summoned back. He met Newmark and Cunningham somewhere on Tuesday. They told him they were going to make change. They essentially had to fire him then. He did not want to leave, obviously. He has since put out a statement. He then sent a note to the team, the players and the staff all in one to meet at his house at 9pm Eastern last night. So they all made their way over there. Carolina, it is operating in dysfunction. And this is per like multiple sources in and around the program. Who they get next we'll see and we'll get into that. But this, this was not handled as well as it could have been. People were basically, you know, going about their business for about three, four days as uncertainty loomed heavily in the air. Feeling like it was going to go this way, but with conflicting information about whether they could afford to do it. You know, if there were significant people that were at least getting on the phone to talk to her about maybe could Hubert Davis job be saved? I was told Buzz Peterson, obviously a long time really, really, really good friend of Michael Jordan's, got on the phone with Jordan at one point and even he was kind of made abreast of the situation and it was at least explored. Can we get enough support from the most important alumni in our circles to keep Hubert's job? Ultimately that failed and they couldn't get that done. And so now they've made the move to move on from him and doing so not as amicably I think as leadership would have hoped. And it's done. I mean we don't need to go too deep on to if it should have been done. You and I have talked about this plenty. We've talked about it on yesterday's show. But the move has been made. North Carolina bottom line, North Carolina is not operating at the level that it should as a program overall. Hubert Davis has stuff you can never take from him. He will always be the coach that ended Coach K's career in dual fashion both at Cameron and then the Final Four got to the national title game like he has a very important place in the history of that program. But the bottom line is the program was not operating at its utmost and outright optimal level. And I think Cunningham and Newmark came to the conclusion that there were too many people that were supporters of the program and the fan base that were not going to be coming back if Davis was still there. So it's not an easy decision to make. They took probably an extra day or day and a half longer than they wanted to make it. I was told Hubert Davis had the opportunity to full on rethink everything and make a presentation on how he would change and what would change with the program if he kept it for a six season. He did that with Cunningham. It's on the story. I think that's on Monday. He did that but it just wasn't good enough. And so Here we are. So I'm sending it back. There's more in the story, but we don't have a ton of time here. It's back to you and then we can talk candidates.

Gary Parrish (7:07)

So we've talked about this a lot leading up to this under the assumption that this is where we would get. So I don't want to repeat myself too much. The truth is I know some people are bothered by the length of time between the end of the season and the ultimate decision like it dragged out a little bit. Undeniably. I think the most obvious explanation for why is probably the accurate one, which is the reason this drug out is because it was a tough decision. You had to get the right people on the right side. It was complicated. He is one of your own. That further complicates it. The truth is, if they wanted to keep him, they could have. It would have been very easy to do. You can keep him by just hammering home this point. Have we been operating at North Carolina standards? No. But he has gone to four NCAA tournaments in five years. He coached in a Final Four. He coached in a championship game. And this season, on the day Caleb Wilson suffered, on the day Caleb Wilson played for the last time, North Carolina was 19 and 5 overall, 7 and 4 in the ACC and ranked 11th in the AP poll. Do we really want to fire one of our own when his best player got hurt and then the season went the wrong way? But before then we were 19 and 5 and ranked 11th in the AP poll. If you want to keep him, that's how you do it. That's how you rationalize it. Here's the truth. They just decided they didn't want to. And I understand why. Like I've said before, everybody likes Hubert Davis. Everybody appreciates what he means to that school, what he means to the profession. He's a gentleman through and through. But this is a multimillion dollar business, you know, arguably the most important business on that campus. And some people call it the best job in America. At the collegiate level, everybody calls it a top five. As I mentioned on Tuesday's show, you can apply a pretty easy test here. We have the best job and if not the best, one of the five best jobs in the sport. Do we have the best coach and. And if not the best coach, one of the five best coaches in the sport. At any point, have you been able over the past five years to answer that confidently with a yes, if you're a North Carolina fan? Respectfully, I say this with no emotion, but I don't think. I don't think that you honestly could. And if that is a place you've gotten to as a athletic department slash university, then this, this makes sense. It's, it's not unlike what Texas decided to do with Rodney Terry. You could have kept Rodney Terry if you wanted to. He did not run that thing into the ground. They simply decided, we can do better than this nice guy. He's doing a good job, but we can do better than this. And Texas is in Sweet 16 under year in year one under Sean Miller. And I'm sure North Carolina is hoping for something similar.

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Matt Norlander (11:30)

let's talk candidates here. I broke it earlier this morning. This is not a surprise, but it is worth at least reporting. And that's why I did it. Brad Stevens was atop Carolina's list that it has already been communicated that Stevens will not be leaving his job with the Celtics to coach Carolina.

Gary Parrish (11:47)

Shucks.

Matt Norlander (11:48)

I know, I know, I know.

Gary Parrish (11:50)

I was really hoping this would be the time.

Matt Norlander (11:52)

I know. Hey listen, you got to take a swing. And he. He was on the list but he is now off. That store is also up on the app or dot com. Which leaves us with what I have been told is a list with three not only active College coaches, three coaches still going in the tournament and then one NBA coach that are the primary candidates there. And then from there I think you get into some other names, but Tommy Lloyd, Dusty May, TJ Otzelberger and Billy Donovan I think are your quartet to, to circle in on call this informed speculation and also just it's Carolina. If you're watching here on the graphic here, we've got Gold, Todd golden and NATO. It's also on that list. This graphic says, according to Matt Norlander. I think golden notes are a firm tier below based on the information that was shared with me last like last like Saturday, I would guess.

Gary Parrish (12:52)

Let me, let me stop you here for a second because. Let me, let me stop you because there is no coaching accomplishment difference in any real way between Tommy Lloyd, Dusty May, T.J. oselberger and Todd Golden. No dates. Is this off the court issue type of thing that would give maybe North Carolina.

Matt Norlander (13:13)

That could be part of it. Part of it. Number on oats is pretty big, although the number on Tommy I think is pretty big too. Tommy might be 12 right now, but the number might. It's also buyout drops are coming soon. So I think every single one of these coaches will be more affordable. I think a week from now there might be one or two contracts in there that might dip in the middle of April in terms of buyouts. But yes, I think that it's fair to infer that also when you consider Carolina as a general institution, I would

Gary Parrish (13:41)

very, I would just insert real quick. I'm sorry, but here's at least what somebody said to me. You've got the Belichick thing there. That's, that's messy and you can't have any other messy. And so you just need to steer away from potential messiness if you can, if that makes sense.

Matt Norlander (13:58)

Yep, without a doubt. And just as another aside, like the Belichick stuff in football is just, it's just adding to a lot of stuff there and frankly, it probably makes the Carolina job. This is just what someone told me. It makes the Carolina job right now not quite as good as it would be if you could fast forward maybe three years from now. Belichick isn't there anymore. Maybe they've gotten a lot of their stuff buttoned up. Maybe basketball is back to being the undoubted top priority. Not even close. So we can get back there. But right now, like again, this isn't my opinion. This is what people that have been around that program are telling me. Like it's operating with a decent level of dysfunction so, right. That, that all being said, I would lean toward one of Donovan, Lloyd May or Alta Burger being the next coach. I would put that a heavy percentage there because I still think that the job carries a lot of. A lot of cachet as we talk. And I want your opinion on that. And I know we're already like, up against the here. Good God. I also want to just clear up something that most people listening may not be aware of, but just in our circles, like, it's been pretty like buzzed about in the past 24 hours and within 10 minutes of us going live here, I just had a source close to Bill Self check in and said that I could just clear this up. Like there was a rumor that he was going to announce his retirement today from Kansas. And obviously if that were to happen, that's a, that's a major, major news story. I'm told that is not true. I don't know if he'll retire in two days or in two weeks or if he won't retire at all. But I, I tweeted that right before we went on and it's about as good a source as you can get with, with Self on this. So I'm. I'm gonna take that source at their word. I only invoke that because what we might have have happened, not a guarantee, but what we might have happened and how this is all connected is if Carolina's open and then nine days from now, four days from now, Bill Self does say, I do want to retire again, he might not do it, but if he does, you have two of the four best jobs that are open, Carolina and Kansas.

Gary Parrish (15:55)

Opening at the same time would be wild.

Matt Norlander (15:58)

That would be insane. And everyone that's on Carolina's list would be on Kansas's list. And Kansas would actually have a few other potential guys there, including Jacques Vaughn, who's on staff. So just keep that in mind. We will cross that bridge if we get there. There was a curiosity if we were going to get there today. I'm told we're not. Your thoughts generally on the name that I gave you that, that Carolina is targeting.

Gary Parrish (16:17)

If you told me I could end up with Dusty May, Tommy Lloyd, TJ Otzelberger or Billy Donovan, I would be thrilled. As a North Carolina fan, I want to be clear. Nate Oates, awesome basketball coach. Ty golden, awesome basketball coach. But they come with some other stuff. Right. And. And given the buttoned up nature, I think I've heard other people describe it as the country club nature of North Carolina combined with the messiness of the Belichick situation. Like you, there's no guarantee you can ever avoid, you know, off the court issues with any higher. But you might not want to bring in somebody who's already. You're going to have to answer questions at a press conference about them as opposed to just celebrate what's going on. So that separates some candidates from others. I think my first phone call really would be Billy Donovan. There's reports out there that he could be, you know, wrapping it up with the Bulls. I know he's been out of the game for a while, but out of the college game for a while. But I don't think that's a bad thing. Like, it can really open your basketball mind up working in the NBA. Ask Calvin Sampson about that. So I don't think this time away from college basketball is actually detrimental, particularly when this isn't really a relationship business anymore. Particularly when it was the relationship aspect of it on some level that pushed Billy to the NBA, like he did not. I can vividly remember being at Peach Gym one year, standing with Billy towards the end of his run at Florida, and some guy, I don't even know who it was, but he comes over and it's a grassroots guy. It's one of those guys. It's one of those stereotypical guys who's like, hey, coach, Coach Billy, you know, I'm going to call you and I need this and I need that. I'm gonna need you to help me with this and that and that. And the guy walked away. And I remember Billy going, now, you realize when I get home, I got to call this guy and probably spend 30 minutes on the phone with him and then. And then take care of this and this and this, or else I've got no shot of getting his players. And, like, what is going on? Like, I've got two national championships and I still got to spend. I'm paraphrasing here. Maybe this is more in my head than it was in his, but I could sit like, what? I got two national championships and I still got to deal with this. So now it's more transactional than it's ever been. If I were North Carolina, I'd pick up the phone, I call Billy Donovan, I'd say, you will have more resources than any coach in America and the best job in America, it is going to be way easier for you to win here than it will be with any job you get in the NBA going forward. Come back to college. This is where you belong. And he would have to tell me, no Three times. And then I would maybe look, then I'd start looking other places.

Matt Norlander (18:55)

Yeah, Josh is an MVP on the show, by the way. He is muting me when I'm not talking, which is huge because there is so much Jamba Juicing happening right over here.

Gary Parrish (19:03)

You got to be careful of Jamba Juice, man. I seen what happened to Jason Bateman. Wait till you find out what happened to Jason Bateman at Jamba Juice. It's wild.

Matt Norlander (19:12)

I've got a stat for you, by the way. Billy Donovan has more Final Fours than and granted, these guys are going to catch them and they could, I think they might catch him literally in a couple days. But he has more Final Fours than Lloyd Alberger and May combined have elite eights. So he has been out of it for a while. I agree with you and I'm told that he's at least, I mean, this is a significant step. He, I, I've been told that Donovan is one willing to have a conversation. That wasn't the case when Kentucky opened two years ago. Hasn't been the case when any other college job is open. So we wait and see on that. We wait and see on if these guys that are about to coach this weekend get asked about it in their press conferences and how they handle that. Hey, this is one of those good problems, man. You have this kind of success, your name's going to get attached to a list. You handle it how you want to handle it. There's no avoiding it. They're all aware of what the situation is at this point. Obviously, we're not going to have movement on the Carolina search until next week at the earliest. And, and then depending on who does and does not make it to the Final Four, we wait and see on that. I think that's pretty much it from my end right now. We have one more like I broke, I don't know, 30 minutes before we went live. Ronald Norad is the next coach at Butler. He's an alum. Shouts to Josh, who is a BU alum as well. And so I, I, I credit to Butler for getting it done. They do opt to keep it in the family, so we'll see if they can, if they can do something special there. Norad, most famous for being the starting point guard on both Butler teams that went to the title game. He has been an NBA assistant for a number of years now, is currently with the Atlanta Hawks. And if Butler has not already announced that, as you watch this live, I was told that's coming pretty, pretty soon here. So that's the other piece of of coaching news in the here and now. Carolina is a huge job and I do think this is my closing thought and it's UGP and we can wrap. I do expect this Carolina search and this could age terribly.

Sling TV Advertiser (20:55)

As always.

Matt Norlander (20:56)

I don't think it'll be like the Kentucky search. The Kentucky search went to Dan Hurley and that was a no. And it went to Scott Drew and that was a no. And it went to not nearly going down the road far enough with Billy Donovan and that would have been a no. Carolina might get one no from one of these guys, maybe two, maybe two privately. But I my expectation at this point is that it will not get there. And, and one of the names we've talked about on the show will wind up being there. Some people have thrown in Michael Malone as like a, as a sneaky candidate because he's got Carolina ties. I guess his daughter goes there, so I'll mention his name just in case. But that name hasn't been given to me as a. As a serious, serious name. But I think someone that we've talked about on this show will wind up being the next coach in Chapel Hill.

Gary Parrish (21:35)

I would assume so. And I think you're right. The Carolina job is going to hire more smoothly than the Kentucky job did for. For many reasons. In part, I think because you're following Hubert Davis as opposed to John Calipari, like that does play a role in it. And the next coach, the next candidate is going to hear about rev share at nil in ways that Hubert probably never heard because there's a trend developing in college athletics. The next guy gets more than the last guy because you're trying to set the next guy up for success. And so I agree with you. I think the next coach is probably somebody whose name has been said on this podcast, although I have heard other names just get tossed out randomly. So let's throw them out there, too. Just Mark B. Mark Bayanth in at Vanderbilt's name floated and big buy.

Matt Norlander (22:29)

Big buyout. But he would if it got to that point. He's really, really good.

Gary Parrish (22:33)

And if we're going to say the guy's one of the greatest coaches working today, then you got to at least consider the Ben McCollum thing. Would he leave Iowa City? I don't. What do you know? I don't know all that stuff. I would.

Matt Norlander (22:42)

At least one of those. Yeah. Imagine if Iowa gets to the Final four. I think McCollum has by far the most manageable buyout of any of them. Like that would be wild.

Gary Parrish (22:52)

Oh, man, that would be Lane Kiffin times something.

Matt Norlander (22:54)

That'd be insane.

Gary Parrish (22:55)

But he doesn't have the late given personality to, like, you know, fuel the fire, but that'd be something. Hey, if it happens, we'll talk about it. All right? I'm gonna let you go get something to eat at jfk. Be careful. Wait till you find out what happened to Jason Bateman at Jamba Juice. Do not get the go getter. Your life gets real sideways. You like?

Matt Norlander (23:18)

I appreciate you. You can wrap the show. I'm literally gonna log off here because I got to board my flight in 20 minutes. Don't. Listeners, viewers, don't say we don't love you. We got this from the jfk. Two years ago, there was no way in hell Paris would have allowed us to podcast with me sitting outside of John. But you said an airport. How times have changed. I appreciate you, buddy. We'll talk again on Friday.

Gary Parrish (23:36)

As I've aged, I've become less rigid. Or either I just started caring less. One of the two could be either one. Real quick, Josh, turn your mic on. If you could pop on here, I'll tell you a quick Ronald Norridge story about your new men's basketball coach. So I used to work with Shelvin Mack, right, at CBS Sports Network. Butler legend. So Shelby and I, we'd sit in studio every Tuesday and Wednesday night, and we'd sit there, and we'd have an A10 game and then a Mountain west gate. We just, you know, we'd order some Greek kitchen. We'd eat food. We'd eat dinner together. You start living this life during basketball season. Truth is, I eat dinner with, like, Wally Zerbiak and a Mecca Okafor and Ronald Norad. I mean, not Ronald Norrid, Shelvin Mack, and my other. My colleagues in the studio. I eat dinner with them more than I eat dinner with my own family. They're, like, from January, February, and March. And so Ronald and Shelvin are close. And one night we're sitting in studio and, you know, shelving text and everybody, you know, we're in between games or whatever, and Shelvin's like, hey, Ronald. Ronald said. Ronald Norton said, what's up? And I said, oh, Rand, tell myself what's up? Because, you know, I'd bump into him every once in a while. And then if I remember correctly, and I might not be remembering correctly, but it was something along the lines of, and Ronald, he said. And Shelby said. And Shelby, he's told me he's and he said, he said, tell GP I forgot about what he wrote that one time. And I'm like, I have no idea.

Podcast Co-host (24:56)

So no shot. You remember? No shot.

Gary Parrish (24:59)

So the first thing I got to do is congratulate Ronald on getting this job. He's put in the work, he's been in the NBA. I obviously been around Brad. Brad thinks the world of him. This is all good stuff. So first thing, congratulations. Second thing, what did I do? And can you forgive me? There's another, another one like that. A buddy of mine played high school baseball here. He wasn't a buddy of mine. Like I graduated and I was. I gotta get the dates on this. Right. I don't want it to sound weird. I, I was covering high school baseball for the Commercial Appeal newspaper before I ever even got out of college. Right. Like my junior year of college, I was doing this and there was a shortstop who was good. I think he went on to play. I know he played Division 1 baseball. I think he played. I think he made it to the major leagues. I don't want to say his name because I want to be at the. But I think he actually played in the big leagues just for a minute. Right. Anyway, he, I have no recollection of this at all. Oh, but he's never forgot it. It's a big moment in his life. So apparently he used to. Maybe he was his sophomore year of high school. He isn't a starter because this is like the best team in the state, that type of thing. Yeah, but the team's best pitcher is playing shortstop. And so they pull him from shortstop, put him on the mound, and then this other, the sophomore goes in to play shortstop, comes off the bench to play shortstop. And keep in mind, he went on to play in the major league, so this is all going to work out. But this was like a rivalry game or something. Sophomore comes off the bench, routine ground ball to short. He just bobbled it like it lost the game. All right, well, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a reporter. At least I think I am. And I'm just telling the story. Perhaps that I'm an insensitive reporter given that I'm writing about, you know, a 16 year old baseball player. But I just sort of tell the story like. And then this guy comes off the bench as a sophomore and then like, you know, boots it and loses the game to the right over and fast forward 10 years and you're. Oh, you're 20. I don't know, just fast forward at some Point. And you, You. You bump into this person at a restaurant or bar and it's like, hey, you remember me? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And he's like, man, do you remember that time? I'm like, I don't have any idea what you're talking about. Like, what. It's like this. I was a sophomore, came off the bench, and I ultimately, like, went and looked it up. But that, like, that had been a thing in his house forever. So, like, even when they would be driving him and his father as my career took some twists and turns, the next thing you know, I'm on radio in their hometown every afternoon. They couldn't even listen to me in their car because the dad was like, that son of a bitch. Remember that time he wrote that you'd kick that ball around? This was a thing in their life forever. I have. It was just something I did. It was just 500 words I wrote when I was 21 years old. So it's easy to forget sometimes. Like, these words do. Like, they stick with people whether they stick with you or not. And so I've got that with a former high school shortstop and Ronald Nord, perhaps. But I'll figure it out. Congratulations to him. Congratulations to your alma mater. And we wish North Carolina luck on its coaching search. Can we call that a show?

Podcast Co-host (28:30)

I got two things. One, we've learned to steal something from your shows in Memphis. What we learned today. Be careful in a Jamba Juice. We Learned that today.

Gary Parrish (28:40)

Yes. 100. You got to. I mean, you gotta watch DTF St. Louis. And yes, DTF sounds. It's.

Matt Norlander (28:48)

It.

Gary Parrish (28:48)

It accounts for exactly what you think it accounts for. So we learned that it's got Jason Bateman and they end up at a Jamba Juice. And then things get sideways. You just don't wanna. I saw a Jamba Juice just driving down the road the other day, and I was like, I don't want any part of that. I ain't trying to screw my life up today. Not today.

Podcast Co-host (29:08)

And. And any 500 words can stick with somebody forever. We've learned those two things on the show today. I also learned from Norlander after he left 8:41 was his airport arrival. Okay, 8:41. So for those. I mean, I. I'll have to go swimming through comments sections to see what people guessed. But 8:41 is when he got to JFK this morning.

Gary Parrish (29:33)

Okay, I've got a 5:20 central departure out of Memphis International. I've also got CBS Sports HQ responsibilities from about 2 to 2:45. Can I leave my house at 3pm and get through security at Memphis International today?

Podcast Co-host (29:51)

I sure hope so.

Gary Parrish (29:53)

I mean, to, to quote the great Kodak Black, I hope so.

Podcast Co-host (29:57)

I mean, we're all in trouble if, if it's taking you hours to get through Memphis. Tsa, great airport. I've never seen anybody in line at tsa, so we'll be, we'll be in trouble.

Gary Parrish (30:08)

A normal get through security at Memphis International. If Uber dropped me off at the front door, I can be through security in two minutes.

Podcast Co-host (30:17)

Yes, easily.

Gary Parrish (30:19)

Easily. But I don't know. I don't know what's going on over there. You know, hard to know what's going on over there. So wish me luck. Wish me luck. The plan is to land back in New York City tonight, safely, get to the hotel safely, and then start Talking about Sweet 16 games tomorrow night on CBS Sports Network. And then just as soon as I'm done with that, perhaps I'll loosen the tie. But maybe not. Either way, I'll sit in front of a camera and we'll, we'll talk about whatever happened, however happened. Let's call it a show. Shouts to Devin Downey. Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching and listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anyway. Subscribe to podcasts, Apple, Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So please do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take

Matt Norlander (31:16)

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Gary Parrish (31:25)

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Gary Parrish (31:31)

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You sound insane. Starring Vince Vaughn, James Marston and Asa Gonzalez. I. I thought you were a clone. Well, clones aren't real, dummy. And time machines are super grounded in reality. Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice.

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