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- [00:00]
Matt Norlander
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- [01:22]
Gary Parrish
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- [03:34]
Matt Norlander
Hello, happy Tuesday, April 28th. Everyone. To this point, I say to this point, let's not have any more than we need 52 changes, which is down from the past. Well, at 25, 24, 23, 22 and 21 all had more than 52. 2020 was the COVID year. There was hardly any movement there. I don't even know if there were two dozen changes that year. In general, Steve Forbes was the only change the year 2020. But in a given year, I think now you should be expecting 55 plus we're at 52. We'll see if that number moves up by even one by the time we start next season at the power conference level. And we'll, we'll mention all these coaches here on today's show. We had 12 changes, which is down from recent seasons. We've had 13. We've had 14. We might have even had 15 high major changes in one of these cycles in recent seasons. So we wound up with 12, which was a number that I was even higher than I was expecting. I I when I started my coaching tracker and when that went live, GP I think, you know, the final days of February on.com I'm using that first edition that I thought we'd land on 10 high major coaching changes. We wound up getting to 12 and some of that being a function of one of the schools. We'll talk off right off the top here. I was not thinking that North Carolina would indeed open but there's always an unexpected factor that leads to the carousel. It's kind of what makes it what it is. And we keep a pace here and that we have really not had an average coaching cycle since we came out of COVID for one reason or another. The past four or five springs we have had at least one top 10 job change and we saw that again happen with Carolina. We have had something about a coaching cycle that will bring about just an abnormal headline like a Michael Malone going to Carolina amongst some other things as well. We'll get into all of that. But be it shocking hall of Fame level retirements or just big time jobs opening, we are now on a four or five year run where the college basketball coaching carousel has some sort of very high profile, mainstream unusual headline attached to it. And I would say UNC getting rid of Hubert Davis and bringing on an NBA championship winning coach is the thing this year that makes that pace and trend continue.
- [05:53]
Gary Parrish
To the extent the numbers are lower than maybe they used to be in a different time. How much, if at all, is it a byproduct of nil revenue sharing? In other words, we know when the NBA announces its early entry list into the draft, the number is way lower than it was just a few years ago. It's in the 70s now. At one point it was in the 300s, I believe. And that's a direct byproduct of there's now real money to be made in college. People aren't as eager to get out of it. Is it also working in this way? In other words, you're on the fence about a coach. You kind of want to move on, but the buyout money's real. Rather than pay all that money to fire and pay a bunch of more money to get a new coach and then you got to go buy a brand new roster, let's just give this guy one more shot and it, it slows down the hiring and firing process. Is any of that true?
- [06:46]
Matt Norlander
I think it works both ways. So I think there's something to that. And I actually thought that was going to be the case. That was not going to lead us to as many as 12 high major changes this year. But also like if, just take a look at Carolina as an example. Like if, if there's enough people with enough money that are motivated to get to move off a coach a year or two ahead of the pace is what would have normally been the case, that will absolutely happen. And we have seen that happen at a number of spots in recent seasons. So I think there's motivations tugging at one end of the rope versus opposing factors at the other end of the rope. And here we are. I don't know. To me, I'd say on the outside looking in from and by the outside looking in being like I wasn't covering the coaching carousel in 2004, 2008 or really even, you know, on the level I am now, as recently as 2012, 2013. It feels like there's still more changeover now than there was back then. Even though, you know, it's, it's always buzzy. Don't get me wrong, but I think the, the amount of turbulence that surrounds this industry has not it just hasn't led to us since COVID We have not had a, a regular or ordinary carousel cycle. I wait to see if and when that will actually pop up on our timeline in the years to come.
- [08:02]
Gary Parrish
I guess there's at least, I don't know, there's a couple of coaches at the high major level that in October, I think if you and I were talking we would have said they need to have good years or that might be it. And they didn't have good years and they kept their jobs. And I just don't know if that happened 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I've just heard from more than one campus if your options are pay a lot of money to get rid of a coach to then find new money to get the new coach, then buy a roster, maybe just give this coach one last chance, load up on the roster and see if he can coach his way and roster, build his roster, buy his way out of it rather than pull the trigger where, when you might have pulled the trigger 10 years ago. But I, I'm sure we can find examples that, that, that co. Yeah.
- [08:52]
Matt Norlander
I mean every Steve Forbes that saved at Wake Forest because of a money issue, Cincinnati made it happen to get Wes Miller out of there and bring on Jared Calhoun. You know, for, you know, there are, there is a little bit of bucket A and a little bit of bucket B. Kim English was booted out of Providence on an accelerated timeline for those kind of factors. Whereas I don't know, Ed Cooley was not. Or Fatma left Butler after four years. Red Autry was, was got. You know, had to get out of there relatively quickly. We'll get into all those replacements soon enough. But Jeff Capela could not afford to fire him. So he did not have a good year. Pittsburgh won 30, 13 games last season and they could not afford to shift off of him because of his contract. So he stuck around. So I does feel situation dependent. I'm sure there are people tuning into this show in whatever way you're tuning into it, whenever you are tuning into it. We appreciate you that are fans of certain schools that did not make coaching changes and kind of feel like they're, they're staring at their watch and biting time and hoping that next March will finally be the time when they can make a coaching change and they can have their school talked about on this podcast about hiring a new coach. But to me, it still feels as if not more volatile than ever before. But it does come down to coaching contracts. And these athletic directors continue in some ways to do it to themselves. You know, it's, it's some of its market play, I guess at work. But as an example, and understandably so, like Todd Golden's in the middle of a contract negotiation. Again. He just went through this a year ago, but he has leverage. And so Florida is going to redo that contract again, keep him on there in Gainesville. He's not going to the NBA this off season cycle. But in the, in the process of doing that, there will be a contract that is very much in Todd Golden's favor. Whereas just feels like 25, 30, 40 years ago, ads were not. We're not cornering themselves as often as they are. But the more that they do that, then the more likely you are to see either a coach stick it around an extra year, sometimes two, sometimes three years, or it goes the way the college football route which we've seen so often where you've got some schools just willing. I mean, that just speaks to the outright insanity that runs that sport where it is tens upon tens upon tens of millions of dollars. Look no further than LSU for the most recent example of how many coaches they are paying to coach there now and how many coaches they are paying and the tens and tens and tens of millions to no longer be the coach at lsu.
- [11:25]
Gary Parrish
So let's continue by focusing on not necessarily the best hire. Although if you want to tell me what you think the best hire is, you want to, if you want to plant your flag on somebody now, feel free. But just one that interests you the most. Obviously there's a bunch to pick from. I've got mine. What is yours?
- [11:43]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, let's go with the two. What? And I wanted to make sure we had two different ones and with. And we actually honestly did have two different ones. The weird pick is an obvious and understandable one. But this one I find to be the most interesting because I feel like it's the most critical of the entire cycle that has the most attached to it. And by the way, live chat like, like to see this popping here on a Tuesday afternoon. What you think is the most interesting or best hire, Fire away in the comments. We want to hear it. And Josh can flash some of those comments on the screen as we go in real time here on YouTube. I think Jerry McNamara to Syracuse is the most interesting hire of this cycle. Now, he was not the first choice for Syracuse. As I reported last month, Syracuse looked into a number of candidates and most seriously coveted and chased Josh Shirts at Cincinnati to the point where Syracuse brass was on the road on selection Sunday trying to get Josh Shirts to sign and be the next coach at Syracuse. Those discussions and that courtship lasted into the start of the NCAA tournament before Shirts ultimately turned down Syracuse and opted to stay at St. Louis. And once that happened, it all dovetailed with McNamara who did get to the tournament by virtue of winning the Mac. And what is the last year, by the way, as we know it, as the Mac, that league change will have a, have a name change, excuse me, in the next, I don't know, two to six weeks, I'm told. But Sienna gets into the tournament quite famously and as established as official protocol here on the pod. Jerry McNamara would be the coach at Duke right now. Had his Saints defeated the Blue Devils in the first round and we'd be talking about John Shire taking over in Central New York. Couldn't quite get it done, but they gave the Blue Devils one hell of a scare, ultimately lost 7165 in the first round to the number one overall seed and played a super compelling game where their five starters played almost every single minute. In fact, only one starter sat for essentially the final 40 seconds of that game. And so when Shirts turned down Syracuse and McNamara then became the quick and immediate target, it made sense. On the, on the level of he's one of the most beloved, well known. I mean he's probably among like Syracuse has had some legends, but he was on the title team with Carmelo Anthony and he's, he's up there with Derek Coleman, with Pearl Washington, like among the five or six most beloved slash well known players, Dave Bing in the history of that program. Now he's a young guy and he as a head coach, he has exactly two years of experience and they were at Siena. Year one at Siena went 14 and 18. He's coming off a 2312 season. He's 42 years old. He spent a ton of time Working at Syracuse after his playing days were over, first as a grad manager, then as a longtime assistant, well over a decade under Boeheim. Boeheim leaves Red Archery gets the job, McNamara goes and cuts out off on his own. But as was told to me by a number of people as the search was playing out and everything going into it, Syracuse is at a major inflection point because there is no, there is literally there is no person in the history of major college athletics who dedicated a larger portion of their entire life undergrad coaching, all of it than Jim Boeheim and all of the decades, half century worth of his life plus I guess, that he spent at Syracuse. So Bayheim is Syracuse, Syracuse is bayheim, and obviously McNamara is an extension of that. But the Red Archer experiment didn't work and now if McNamara cannot get this to work, maybe he does. And I would love to see him do it because, man, wouldn't that be an awesome story. GP to get to have McNamara guide this program and have Syracuse be a top 25 team on the regular again, that'd be an awesome story. But if that does not happen, if we're back on this podcast in three years, in four years, in five years, talking about another Syracuse coach after it didn't go the way they wanted it to go, there is a real concern that given the school's location, it's incongruent fit in the acc. Like we know why it's there, it's not leaving the acc, but it didn't go to the ACC for the basketball, it went to chase the football money like so many other schools. There's a real concern that Syracuse could just be another school in the mix that's mostly irrelevant. That basically drifts to the bottom half of the higher of the high major hierarchy. GP and with that you lose a lot of what this school once represented. And so that's why to me, Syracuse hiring Jerry McNamara is the most interesting of any hiring this entire 2026 cycle, because I think there's more attached to it for the long term standing of Syracuse's reputation. We'll get to your pick in a second. A lot of others, there's a lot of good stuff in the cycle, but to me, the biggest hinge point of all of them is gmacdocused.
- [16:31]
Gary Parrish
It's obviously a big one. It's now his responsibility to get his alma mater a place he cares deeply about back to a point of relevancy because it hasn't been that in a minute. We touched on it a few times throughout the season. Like it's striking how much we don't even acknowledge Syracuse basketball regularly anymore. And then when you do stumble into it, it's just like, oh man, that's the place they used to call the Carrier Dome and now it's empty. That didn't seem right. I still think at a place like Syracuse, as long as you've got power conference affiliation and they do, maybe it'll never feel like it once was in the Big east, but they still had like good, big meaningful years in the ACC where it looked the way it's supposed to look and sounded the way it's supposed to sound. And you're always just get your money right, make a right hire away from getting that back. I mean, don't ever forget where Louisville was two years ago and, and where Louisville is at right now, you know, roster building in a way that is going to sell out that arena consistently at a big brand like that with a power conference affiliation. If you've got the money right and you get the right hire, you can get it back. But it's important that he does because for my entire life that has been one of the biggest brands in the sport, a consistent winner and it's, it hasn't been that in a minute and, and it needs, it needs to get back to that and not just for Syracuse. Like we've been on this years long thing of what's wrong with the acc. Well, some of it is the biggest brands have not been great consistently. Syracuse is one of them. If you want the ACC to be great again, some of that starts with Syracuse being great again.
- [18:14]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, let's stick in the ACC because your pick is, is the other one there, which is an understandable pick. I know, I know on one of the shows that I missed because of travel, you, I know you dedicated, I think at least a show segment to it. But we can roll it back and I can volley off of you as well. The most interesting hire for you in this year's cycle was who and where.
- [18:31]
Gary Parrish
I think it's Michael Malone at North Carolina in part because it's the biggest job that opened. It was a hire that I don't want to say came out of nowhere because I do believe Shelby Swanson, who of course works at the News and Observer, I think she had listed him as a candidate in advance of it popping. But the immediate reaction when it popped was like, oh wow. And so it was kind of out of nowhere type it certainly when Hubert Davis is removed, I didn't hear a bunch of people Screaming Michael Malone, former Nuggets coach, is going to be the next guy in Chapel Hill. But that's where we ended up. I don't love that Henry Sar decided he's done with college.
- [19:13]
Matt Norlander
You can tie those two headlines together because that's happened since the last time we podcasted. But yes, he is left. He has left Malone and Lurch, but continue.
- [19:20]
Gary Parrish
Does he just hate school? I mean, is that what I. I
- [19:22]
Matt Norlander
haven't heard that directly, but. And we can, let's. We can quickly swerve on this and then get back to the Mullen conversation. Overall, sometimes that is the case and it's not maybe it's just sometimes there are guys that are one they want to chase the, the professional life too. They just don't want to. They just don't want to have to be burdened by going to class or having class work anymore. And you can toss all your Carolina jokes to the side, but, you know, before even Hubert Davis was fired like Vasar, they sat him down like they had pretty, pretty substantial conversations about what, you know, a contract could look like for him and what kind of Nile money could be made there. And I think at minimum, had he returned to Carolina, at minimum, he would have gotten to 4.5. I did report last week multiple schools try to. I'm not saying they were directing directly contacting him, but his representation. If you go in the portal, here's the number we think we can get you at minimum. And that number was minimum $6 million to get Basar to go in the portal and transfer. I was told an even bigger number by a certain school, but that was a single source. I won't say it on the show, but the number was ridiculous. The number was ridiculous. I guess the school wasn't that surprising. It didn't wind up going that way. He's going to chase his NBA dream. He'll get drafted. If you told me he's like the 28th pick, I would not be shocked by that. But there's a, like he could be as I guess best case is 25th. Worst case is like 42nd. And in the, in the process, there's no doubt about it, Vasar is going to turn down millions of dollars to be an NBA pick. Now he is. He's doing like the anti Thomas Hauker or whatnot. And in the process, like Malone's done a nice job here, I think mostly. But it Vasar not returning has shifted a little bit of the discussion on his hiring overall. Because now Carolina, in the eyes of plenty doesn't have at this stage as we talk to you right now in the final week of April doesn't have the roster that's preseason top 25 quality. Whereas if Vasar was there, I actually think you had the case that Carolina was top 15.
- [21:21]
Gary Parrish
I had him top 15 with Vasar. I took him out of the top 25 and one without him. I mean I think he's that big of a difference. They're right there in the top 30 ish range for me. But outside of the top 25 and 1, I mean it really is kind of wild that a like a month into this or however many weeks into this, like if you were doing a grade on Michael Malone, you would give it an A plus if he could just get Henry Vasor to take $6 million or whatever. Like it's kind of like is that really I, I, I would be good for the job if I could get this guy to take 4.5 billion and I'm not so good for the job because he won't for some reason he won't take my 4.5 million. I mean, is that really what it comes down to? I guess, I guess that's the jig.
- [22:03]
Matt Norlander
I guess writing was on the wall only in this sense. And this is, and I wouldn't even say this is the indicator real but like behind the scenes, like it's now been announced that Mo Crevas and Yvonne Karchenkov and some other players have returned. Those players signed their NIDL nil deals like weeks ago. Right. Face are never did that. And so if you don't even and that's not to say where if you sign it, you're definitely coming back no matter what privately. But if you sign it, it's a really good indication like, okay, we've got those terms down. We, we understand where we're going here. And so it was no surprise to those players at those schools and a few others that those players would return. But UNC never got to that point with Vasar. He might just have been done with school in general. I know he was actually kind of itching a little bit to make this move a year ago when it was really not justifiable. And then in my opinion he was one of the five. I think I had him in my all transfer ballot for our site. I don't think he would finish on our all transfer team, but I had him in there. I thought he was one of the five most impactful transfers a season ago. He's going to try and use that as a Catapult to, to get to the, to get to the next level. We'll see if he can be immediately successful or not. But yeah like, and now fairly or unfairly like Malone took the job and with no assurances face our return. He probably thought he would. Now we look at at what he's been able to assemble there and to this point GP like as a refresher for our audience he's got Neil Abdulas from Virginia Tech. We'll see Terrence Brown from Utah, Matt Abel from NC State, Maxime Logie from Fault. Maximo Adams is a freshman that's coming in. Jaren Stevenson returns. He's a player of real impact. Other guys that they hope will improve, Jaden Young, Isaiah Dennis, we'll see. But it is super. I agree with you. Like to me GMAC1 I would have Malone at number two and we got here because a lot of other people said no. You know Brad Stevens and, and chronological order. Stevens, TJ Autzenberger, Tommy Lloyd, Dusty May, Ben McCollum, Scott Drew minimally and, and to be clear none of those guys were ever officially offered the job. And, and, and, and some of those were very different timelines and whatever. Like you know, I think Stevens was just, you know, for official purposes. Not that that was ever going to be a thing but quite clearly once they got to the point where Ben McCollum said I'm not going to come and do an in person interview. My I'm not flashing back by the way real, real quick as we play this out. Where were you when this news broke? Because you know where I was literally talking to a room of about 125 people phone not with me at the USBWA luncheon. That which happens every Monday, the day of the title game. And, and unbeknownst to me Borzello left the room because Thamil broke the news and I want to say it was seven or eight minutes of real time that I was not next to my phone. So then I returned and it was one of those like huh, where were you when the Malone stuff broke?
- [24:57]
Gary Parrish
I was probably sitting right in front of a computer, probably sitting just like this talking to somebody.
- [25:02]
Matt Norlander
I didn't know if you had to be on network.
- [25:03]
Gary Parrish
I probably talking into this microphone or
- [25:06]
Matt Norlander
no, it was the Monday of the title game at like lunchtime. So I didn't know if you were on the network.
- [25:10]
Gary Parrish
I had HQ that afternoon, early that afternoon. So I was probably doing an HQ hit or something.
- [25:15]
Matt Norlander
Man, that was a wild day. I, I wound up doing two HQ hits from the main atrium because the, the USBWA luncheon was on like the fifth floor of Gainbridge Field House. It was an awesome, awesome room. I, I don't know when I left that, I don't know when I left that building. I left that building to go change and had to go right to the stadium to do more HQ hits to talk about all this stuff before. Oh, by the way, the national title game got played that night. But I, I was just alone there in the, in the atrium of of Gamebridge trying to, to game out a story. That was a wild day. JP I was on a personal note. I was not happy with the University of North Carolina of making a coaching decision all of nine hours before we tipped off the national championship. But, but there it goes. And that's why, that's why he's, he's here. They, they had other candidates at the coaching level obviously that they wanted in there. Steve newmark, the incoming A.D. bubba Cunningham. He'll. He'll officially exit stage left in a couple months here. Steve Newmark, I was told he was the one that drove all of this Aggressive, aggressive pivot. It came quickly. Malone, the guy was in your building all season long. His daughter Bridget plays on the volleyball team at North Carolina. Hubert Davis invited him to practices. By no means did he ever. I know where your brain's turning right now, gp. By no means could a few Davis have ever thought that his successor was just kind of lurking around campus for months and months and months, just kind of soaking in the college basketball environment.
- [26:40]
Gary Parrish
They left the door unlocked and let him walk right in.
- [26:43]
Matt Norlander
Let him walk right in and he gets the job.
- [26:46]
Gary Parrish
I mean, did he grabbed your keys and shoved you out the door and locked it?
- [26:50]
Matt Norlander
That's. That is not how it happened. But it is, it is crazy. Okay? It is crazy after the fact that that's the way this goes. Malone, by the way, is 54 and he does have a little bit of experience in college basketball. Was an assistant, none other than Greg Campy, who's still at Oakland. He gave Malone his first shot working as an assistant in 94 at Oakland. He then went to Providence in Manhattan. Worked there for like six years. He's obviously been in the NBA since and won a title in 23 with the Nuggets.
- [27:18]
Gary Parrish
Obviously joking about Michael Malone. But like I remember one time here at FedEx forum there was a Memphis Madness. Josh Pastor is the coach. Bruce Pearl is out of coaching working for espn and Memphis hired Bruce Pearl to come in and host Memphis Madness. Like MC it. And I Was like, josh, you better be careful. I was like, I don't know if I'd be inviting Bruce Pearl into unemployed Bruce Pearl into FedEx forum. That could be the guy who, who. That could be the guy who is your successor. But it didn't work out that way, as you know. Either way, like, bet on it when Michael Malone is no longer the coach at North Carolina.
- [27:58]
Matt Norlander
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Gary Parrish
Whether that's this afternoon or 20 years from now, when it's over, we say the Michael Malone tenure went, I think, well. I think it's going to go well.
- [28:12]
Matt Norlander
It's so hard to say. I, I would. If you're going to say it went well, that means to me, North Carolina, if you're saying it went well, they made the tournament every year he was there, however long that lasts. They flirted with, if not outright got to at least the Final Four when he was running the program. And they, for the most part, avoided stretches or periods where the program took a significant reputation hit because of a losing streak or losses or whatever. I can't go that far. It's just he hasn't been in college for a long time. He's a really good coach. He's won more than 500 games at the, at the NBA level, 1:56 of his games. He was with the Kings for two years and then with the Nuggets for 10. My guess, because of him being Michael Malone, my guess is he will be back in the NBA before the end of the decade. That's my guess. But I don't know. So it could go well. And he could also not be Carolina's coach in four years. Who's to say? We don't really know. He could, he could be loving this right now. And then we look up in two years, he has done a good job. And he could be saying, yeah, but I'd rather be back in the other league. So no one really knows. And that's why, to me, it's also all the more intriguing, which I completely agree, for you putting him on the list here, it's North Carolina. And now you have someone who is not in the family whatsoever. There's also the weird juxtaposition between Malone doing this and the very, very different circumstances and situation that between whatever the hell's happening with the football program. There's just a lot attached to all of this and, and let's see how he can rebound after not getting Vesar. They're going to try and land someone that's 6, 10 or taller, that's an international player, because I think that's their best, if not only option here in the weeks to come. Who that will be remains to be seen. But they need someone because otherwise I think expectations will go from here to down here in year one under Michael Malone.
- [30:08]
Gary Parrish
I'll keep it simple. I believe it'll go well for these reasons and then we'll move on. First off, it's North Carolina. I think like 75 different people could probably do well at North Carolina. Like that's a job set up for people to do well. Like if you don't do that job well, it probably says more about you than it says about the job. So the job is set up for success in all of the ways it should be then. I know people who have played for Michael Malone who speak highly of him as a basketball mind and as a basketball coach. That means something to me. And then everything I hear about him is that he is a hard worker, that he's attacked the job aggressively, that that he's not relying on his assistance to do legwork as much as he's doing legwork himself. So if this is all true, I'll bet on it. Great basketball mind, that's what I'm told. And that's certainly what the Wikipedia page suggests. Hard worker, that's what I'm hearing. And at North Carolina, set up for success. Sounds good. We'll look up and see where it goes. But if I had to bet one way or another, I'd bet on Michael Malone doing doing well at North Carolina. When we come back, turn our attention to some other power conference jobs, specifically the ones at lsu, Arizona and Providence. First though, let's get a word from our partners.
- [31:29]
Josh Norad
Buying pants shouldn't take this much effort.
- [31:31]
Matt Norlander
Too many options, inconsistent sizing, and styles
- [31:34]
Josh Norad
that don't work across your day. You want something comfortable, sharp and reliable
- [31:39]
Matt Norlander
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Josh Norad
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Matt Norlander
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- [33:22]
Gary Parrish
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- [33:24]
Gary Parrish
So I think we can all agree the most like is he really going to do this higher of the cycle was probably Will Wade leaving NC State after one year to return to lsu? Do NC State fans Do you have a gauge for whether NC State fans hate Will Wade like Ole Miss fans hate Lane Kiffin?
- [33:45]
Matt Norlander
Which one hates him more? That's the question. Which fan base hates the coach? Do not underestimate State fans capacity for real vitriol here, man. I know it's SEC football, don't get me wrong. And that is an intra conference move. So I think I will see to the Kiffin side of this. Yeah, but NC State. I mean we'll wait no fan base and there's plenty of there's plenty of hate to be spread around which in some ways is not a bad thing for college sports. Obviously no man is hated more. I don't believe I I want to say State fans hate Wade more now than maybe even Providence fans hate cool.
- [34:27]
Gary Parrish
I. I understand it. I guess I don't think it rises to the Kiffin level because like he literally quit on a top 10 team in the playoff. Yeah, like that Will Wade didn't do that.
- [34:41]
Matt Norlander
He did not.
- [34:42]
Gary Parrish
So I would rank hatred levels Ole Miss fans hate Lane Kiffin more that NC State fans hate Will Wade. But I don't say that to diminish their hatred. I recognize that it is real.
- [34:56]
Matt Norlander
I mean and we're not going to run. We're not going to do the blow by blow here and just because we'd be here all day. But the Will Wade timeline and how everything played out there and when it was like this looming lurking curiosity possibility for a while. LSU season ends map McMahon didn't do a good job. In fact, as we speak here, as quittance coincidence would have it, I hate grading things immediately. I hate immediate graph trades. I hate immediate coaching hiring. These dudes haven't coached a game and we want to grade. That's why you will never see me grade the hirings that just happened. We're talking about them. I'm not assigning grades. I do grade the coaching hirings four full seasons later and that just so happens to be 2022 when Matt McMahon was hired at LSU. And so I graded that out. You can check that out right now@cbssports.com it didn't go well and they could have fired him a day after, two days after. Heck, let's get nuts even five days after the end of the season. But they didn't do that. They kept that dude on a string dangling in the wind waiting for Will Wade, waiting to bring over Will Wade's buddies from McNeese. And they got Will Wade there. And they got him there because they were going to pay him more than NC State was going to pay him. And they got him there because they were going to pay the assistant staff at LSU more than they were going to pay him in NC State. And they got him there, most importantly because the nil pool for players, if you can believe it, because right now the roster doesn't reflect this. But the nil pool of players at NS at LSU was bigger than what NC State was able or capable of committing to Will Wade. And so he said SIA one and done in Raleigh goes to lsu and do the Tigers have more than three players on the roster? This has been sneakily one of the more surprising stories of the past four weeks in the sport. Will Wade goes to lsu, builds out a staff that includes Rick Stansbury and they don't have starting five yet by the end of April. What the hell is going on? I. I don't know the answer to that, but that's, that's. And we'll get to the NC State replacement part of it later on in the show. But yeah, Wade to LSU going back to where he was, was there from 2017 to 2022, caught up in the FBI investigation, everything with that got fired, took a year off, you know, went to McNeese immediately was great. Parlayed that into NC State a year ago and then it just heads on back to the Bayou because it does from Listen, I'VE never been to Baton Rouge. I would love to go there one day. I know you have GP but on the account of many people, including Will Wade, who I had a conversation about this with, I want to say before he got the NC State job, but while he was at McNeese, to operate successfully at that program in that community, in that state, it just takes a certain kind of person, that kind of you got to know how to how to move throughout the room, so to speak. Some people can do it, some people can't. Matt McMahon was an understandable hire coming from from Murray State, where he did a great job, but he was not ultimately not the right guy for it. And so Will Wade and LSU have been reunited and and and a classic college sports soap opera continues with with another with another chapter in a new era. This dude does not give a single flying F U C K. He does not. He doesn't. And I guess that makes him all the more compelling and for many, all
- [38:29]
Gary Parrish
the more hateable Randy Bennett is the new head coach at Arizona State. I think we touched on this when it happened, but seems like it's not a coincidence. His departure from St. Mary's aligns perfectly with Gonzaga's departure from the West Coast Conference. That had to have played a role
- [38:50]
Matt Norlander
on some level, I would think. I mean the wcc, which is actually expanding in the number of schools that it's going to have as a result of even more realignment, albeit less less prominent realignment, but realignment nonetheless. St. Mary's is remaining in that league. Gonzaga's off to the new Pac12, which just released its new logo and and set up earlier this week. The PAC12 will officially be revived on July 1st later this year. And Randy Bennett, who had turned down Arizona State GP I It was definitely at least twice it might have been. Randy is an Arizona native. It might have been three times he turned down Arizona State before Arizona State got Bobby Hurley. And I want to say I don't know so Arizona said Hurley and then Sendex. So maybe there might have been two times in the hurt maybe when Hurley turned it down and maybe there would have been a second time amid Hurley's tenure where he might have said no and they opted to keep him. There's no way they would have gone to him in 06, but they Bennett had multiple opportunities to coach at the high major level in the past 10 plus years and did not say yes. He was exceedingly devoted to St. Mary's and they finally got him. This was Arizona State was somewhat quietly one of the best, quote, unquote, winners of this year's carousel because there was no more accomplished coach it could have practically landed than Randy Bennett, who has almost 600 wins in his career, took St. Mary's to the tournament 12 times, really did build up a foil for Gonzaga and the WCC at a place where, by all accounts, all those who have visited and I've never been out to Moraga, would love to one day get there. Just haven't you just. You walk around that campus, which I'm sure is tremendous, but you just see what they've been working with and it's like, damn, who could actually do what Randy Bennett has done here? And so here he is at the age of 63. He's going to give it a shot. There was a really brief hiccup after he got the job. He had something of a. Of a health issue that he had to tend to for a little bit there that I think might have spooked some people. But I was told he's. He's all good and he's good to go. He's bringing over Moroskis, his best player from St Mary's what are your thoughts, GP, on just the fact that Arizona State could get someone on Bennett's level after everything that he accomplished? I. If you tell me this is going to be like the best or one of the top two, like Year one ventures for every anyone in this year cycle, I would instantly believe you, because why wouldn't you? You look at Ben's track record, he's been a stud for essentially his entire head coaching career.
- [41:31]
Gary Parrish
I love it. Arizona native, like you said, he was born there. I think I was gonna say it's easy. Forget it's easy to just not know. It's easy to just not know where Randy Bennett's from. But if you're curious, he is from Arizona. And so there's obvious ties there. Although he spent, you know, much of the past quarter century in California. If you'd have told me in December, hey, you see how it's going at asu? You know, they're moving on Bobby, but they're going to be able to get Randy Bennett. I just said it sounds great. So, yeah, I'll say the same thing today. Sounds great. The health scare was a scare just because you'd prefer not to hear anything. Like you'd prefer to hear nothing as opposed to something. But hopefully that's in the past and not an issue moving forward. And this is a guy whose career has been him doing things at a place that you're not supposed to be able to do at that place punching above his weight, if you will. And so that will be the job at Arizona State. Just, it's just a different weight class and there's a different, you know, there's more people to punch at. You know, you're not just punching up at Gonzaga. It's, it's everybody. But at Arizona State, I think you need to be able to do more with less in, in the Big 12. And this is, this is maybe the greatest more with less coach of the past quarter century. Like that. That sounds like hyperbole coming out of my mouth, but I'm not sure that it is.
- [43:05]
Matt Norlander
I don't, I don't think it is. Parrish, Arizona State, when, when you know, it was a fade accompli for like months that this was going to be Hurley's exit, he didn't have like his contract was ending. Like you basically almost never see this anymore in major athletics where a coach enters into his final year of his contract. But Hurley and, and ASU's brass basically settled on that. And so we kind of knew the way this was going to go barring an outstanding season from asu, which didn't happen. And then as that was all playing out, I was like, you know, Will, is Randy bet gonna finally say yes? Because it's, it's, it really feels like now or never. And they Gramercine of the ad. He got it done. Credit to him. I don't think there is a bigger more with less coach in the sport and this just feels like it should work. Bennett is among, from what I am told by people that know him well and have worked with him for him and then worked on multiple other staffs like he is a grinder, maybe on a level that is honestly, frankly, maybe not the best for his overall health. But he like, he works, man, like big time works logs. Serious, serious, serious hours. And if, if that work ethic is going to continue, then Sun Devils fans should be very optimistic about the chances of them just being a relevant player many more seasons than not in the Big 12 for however long Randy Bennett chooses to coach the other one. We'll touch on, I guess the three other. I don't know. To me, these were the, the three noisiest or other most interesting ones of this year's cycle. And that's what's happening in the Big east at Providence, where Brian Hodgson left south Florida after one year. The former NATO's assistant, he was at Arkansas State for a couple years, goes to USF they make the tournament, lost to Louisville in the first round and then he heads on up to try and be the guy to get Providence back, you know, at a, at it, at punching level with with a lot of other schools in the, in the conference. Hodgson's 39. He has been among the most successful, if not feared and in some ways polarizing recruiters in college basketball for the past seven, eight, nine years overall. Friars friends understandably are extremely excited over this. We'll see how it goes. He will have plenty of money to play with. Providence is, is, is definitely going to be in that 10 million plus club club from a roster building standpoint in this year's cycle. And if you're not a die hard college basketball fan, you probably don't know a ton about Hodgson. But those that are really invested in the sport that frankly might be dialed into a college basketball podcast, you know, nearly a month removed from the national title game, they're familiar with the name. He's, he's really not afraid to speak his mind on anything. He's kind of comes from the NATO's tree in that regard. GP and I'm interested to see one if it works. Two, how quickly does this work? Does he step in next season and does he have Providence like immediately being a factor on the level of they had a lot of money to work with and they're going to be a seven seed, a six seed, a five seed in the tournament. Will it work that way? Or is it going to be one year of bumps and bruises, ups and downs and maybe he needs a year or two to get it going. I have no idea what the answer is, but I do find his hiring to be rather intriguing. His name was attached to the Syracuse opening, but I had people fairly early on in the process of that say while he was looked at this idea that Hodgson was a top target for Syracuse, that was way more outside in speculation versus the reality of what was happening at that university. And so as a result, behind the scenes in the weeks leading up to him getting to Providence, PC put him at the top of their list and he knew that if he was going to leave South Florida, Providence was going to be his ultimate destination.
- [46:49]
Gary Parrish
It doesn't sound like it's going to take him long to get this thing going. I mean they're roster building in a way that I don't have him in the top 25 and 1, but if I were putting together a bracket, they would have to I think be in the projected bracket right now just based on the way the roster Looks on paper. So. So far so good. And you're right. Like, he's, you know, he'll. He'll say what he wants to say. I think he. I think he threatened to beat up
- [47:11]
Matt Norlander
coaches who tampered, thinking non. Directly might have threatened Stephen Pearl.
- [47:18]
Gary Parrish
Gee, poor Stephen Pearl. My God.
- [47:21]
Matt Norlander
Well, I think the story was there was an Auburn assistant that went and was at one of USF's games, but then Hodgson left and took the Providence job like a week and a half later. What do you want from me? So I'm all for it. Let's go. Give me as much as you want on the record, please.
- [47:35]
Gary Parrish
Stephen Pearl could not get out of March and April fast enough. He's losing games, missing the tournament.
- [47:42]
Matt Norlander
NIT champs, though. MIT champs.
- [47:45]
Gary Parrish
Getting threatened to beat up. Just. This is a rough go. So there. And this is like. Is this how many Providence coaches in a row are not, quote, scared to speak their mind? Cooley, Kim, Brian, who else? Who was. Who was before Cooley?
- [48:02]
Matt Norlander
That's it. I think Keno Davis might have been a little bit of a shrinkage.
- [48:05]
Gary Parrish
Keto Davis was a little quieter. Keno was a little quieter.
- [48:09]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Yeah.
- [48:11]
Gary Parrish
So, hey, so far, so good. If I were a Providence fan, I'd be fired up right now, right?
- [48:14]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, you should. Like, this is a classic example of, like, the Providence fans were hoping that Hodgson would say yes. They get him. They're rightfully inspired. Money is flowing there and. And we'll see if. If him coming to the Big east can. Can inject a little more competitiveness. And, oh, by the way, get that league back to being five or six bids as opposed to the three visit west this past season.
- [48:32]
Gary Parrish
By the way, like, Brian probably like among the last people you would want to threaten to beat you up in college basketball. Right. He looks like he could follow through on that.
- [48:39]
Matt Norlander
He might.
- [48:40]
Gary Parrish
He looks like he could follow through.
- [48:42]
Matt Norlander
I'm not gonna speak to whether or not he would. He would physically try and assault someone in public, but he. Does he give off that appearance? Sure, he's got the. He's got the. He's got the tight haircut, but the thick beard, always willing to make direct eye contact. Yeah, there's a. There's a lot.
- [48:55]
Gary Parrish
No, here's what I'm trying. I'm not suggesting that he would beat up another human. What I'm saying is, if I wanted you to be afraid, I would point at him and be like, you know, that's my guy. I'd be like, you know that's my guy, right? There. Say another word. That's my guy and I want. You have to look and see him.
- [49:21]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, I think that's. I think that's fair and probably of. I'm looking at all the high major hirings in this year's cycle. I think if you made it look intimidating, Alan Huss is a tall glass of water. But I think Hodgson's got. I think he's got the field here.
- [49:33]
Gary Parrish
If you made a royal rumble of new hires in college basketball.
- [49:38]
Matt Norlander
Yeah.
- [49:39]
Gary Parrish
Does anybody seriously challenge Brian Hodgson? I say no. Who challenges him?
- [49:47]
Matt Norlander
Who even.
- [49:48]
Gary Parrish
Who is even challenges him? Put Luke Murray in there. Put Luke Murray in there.
- [49:56]
Matt Norlander
Even Luke would say I'm awesome.
- [49:59]
Gary Parrish
Luke would be like me and Luke could just be standing over like, no, we don't need to get involved in this. I think he wins a royal rumble pretty easily.
- [50:07]
Matt Norlander
I could see it. I could see. Speaking of Luke Murray, we're going to get to him and every other high major hire. But first, I think we have one more word from our partners. Let's get to that right now. Josh.
- [50:18]
Gary Parrish
Let's go.
- [50:19]
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- [50:50]
Gary Parrish
It's been a minute.
- [50:51]
Matt Norlander
It's been a minute. I still have not seen an episode of Landman for you. I will try to get that done at some point in this off season. I'm just so many like I'm just so many shows behind seasons behind on stuff that I. I gotta catch. Like I'm. I'm about to do. Andor Season 2. Like I haven't even gotten to that yet. So I will get to Landman at some point before they tip the ball.
- [51:13]
Gary Parrish
I've seen every episode of Laying man both season one in season two. I'll get to it. I just knocked out episode season three, episode three of Euphoria last night.
- [51:23]
Matt Norlander
I don't think I've ever get. Not never. I guess never say never. I got no desire to get to Euphoria at this point.
- [51:28]
Gary Parrish
It's getting wild, buddy. It's getting out of hand. And then I just finished DTF St. Louis. You familiar with DTS?
- [51:35]
Matt Norlander
I'm familiar, but it's not anywhere remotely near the top of my list here.
- [51:39]
Gary Parrish
Oh, buddy, it's something. There's some twists and turns in that one, I'm sure.
- [51:42]
Matt Norlander
I gotta feel like I gotta finish the. I gotta finish the penguin, and then I'm gonna get to andor season two. So there's just. And then there's one after another.
- [51:50]
Gary Parrish
So there's too much TV out there.
- [51:52]
Matt Norlander
There's too much. There's too much in here. I got squid, you know, trying to, you know, play some guitar and do the music stuff. I can only do so many shows at a time, but for you, life
- [51:59]
Gary Parrish
is filled with challenges. Life is filled with challenges.
- [52:02]
Matt Norlander
Land, man. At least one episode in the off season. Let's run down.
- [52:06]
Gary Parrish
Okay, let me. Let me tell you how. Let me tell you.
- [52:09]
Matt Norlander
I was just gonna try and set you up a. Go ahead.
- [52:11]
Gary Parrish
I was gonna set you up. Can I set you up? All right, Let me set you up.
- [52:15]
Matt Norlander
All right, so let me tell you
- [52:16]
Gary Parrish
how we're gonna do this. What we're gonna do here is we're gonna bounce through the other Power Conference hires. As I. As I identify them, you say yes or no. They could defeat Brian Hodgson in a royal rumble.
- [52:25]
Matt Norlander
Their answer is no. Next.
- [52:27]
Gary Parrish
Okay, I'll run through them, and then you can take it wherever you want to go. All right, in alphabetical order, here are the other Power Conference hires. Boston College hired previously mentioned. UConn assistant Luke Murray. Butler hired alum Ronald Norris. Cincinnati hired alum Jared Calhoun. Creighton hired alum Alan Huss. Georgia Tech hired Troy's Scott Cross. Kansas State hired Belmont's Casey Alexander. NC State hired alum Justin Gady Norlander. What stands out, other than schools, I guess. Sure do like to hire alums. 12 power conference changes. Four of them went to alums.
- [53:03]
Matt Norlander
Okay, there we have it. Let's go. Let's go. Luke Murray first here that is, would seemingly be, you know, about as good as Boston College could have bargained for for anyone that hasn't coached as a head coach yet. Luke Murray, I maintain Boston College, I think, is one of the three or four worst high major jobs out there in men's college basketball in this 2026 year of our Lord. So for them to get someone who has been a key, critical piece of one of the most dominant college basketball teams in a quasi dynasty, if you will, to say yes to taking that job, I think is a huge coup for Boston College. Now, how will Luke Murray be as a head coach? You know, we'll see. But he's got the acumen. He knows what it he like, he knows what it takes at Yukon. Like Luke Murray was as responsible for the recruiting as he was for the scheming right there with Dan Hurley. Him and Kamani Young did both, did an outstanding job. Kamani did not take a job in this year's cycle. But you know, arguably just as deserving as Luke. Luke goes to Boston College in this year's cycle and in the process gives B.C. fans some hope because that you want to talk about a program that has just not mattered for decades. Boston College, I maintain, has been the worst result outcome of any realignment football driven decision this century. I mean, irrelevant across the board. No matter what. They're in the wrong conference. They don't matter. Can Luke or Murray change that? We'll see. I know from a roster building perspective they've actually got some real, like some real deal talent for BC's level to this point. And, and yeah, I'm, I'm intrigued by it. I mean I, I'm genuinely intrigued to see if Luke can make this work. I will not be surprised if he can. He's also never been a head coach and this is a really, really tough job. So I'm not going to get on the podcast here and declare like it's guaranteed he's gonna hit it out of the park in the next two years because bc, you know, has just been littered with bad season after bad season
- [55:06]
Gary Parrish
after Batman Batsis my forever Disclaimer on first time head coaches. You never know. I there, there's, there's first time head coaches, longtime assistants who I'm like, man, as soon as this guy gets this job, it's, he's gonna be great and he has the job for four years, gets fired, goes back to being assistant. There are assistants that I thought would be terrible head coaches. They went on to be great head coaches. You never know. But this is one specifically where I think if you look at it, you don't ask Boston College why you're interested in Luke Murray from UConn. That's easy. The question is, you ask Luke, like, are you sure? Like, are you sure this is your first job? Because this is a hard first job. But it also seems like the type of place where you can go from the bottom to the middle pretty quickly. Like the ACC seems like a place you can go for. Like it's 18 teams and the bottom's bad and the middle ain't that good. Like the middle is like 65 to 70 in the computers. So can you take. If you're Luke Boston College from trash to the middle of the ACC in say two years. If so, then you are a famous, still young former UConn assistant who's got some now head coaching experience and good stuff attached to you. Now that sets you up for all sorts of good things and I won't be surprised if it goes that way. But again, with first time head coaches, you just, you know, it's, it's, it's hard, it's hard to know.
- [56:31]
Matt Norlander
Well, and the other. Well, let's, I guess since we're talking first time head coaches, let's, let's talk NORAD and then Gainey because everyone else that's, that's, that we're going to get to here is coming from a spot where they were also previously a head coach husk kind of a. Yes, no in that situation. Norrida Butler and Butler circles. That's not a surprise. In fact, Josh, we'll have you flip on your mic here and we'll have you speak to this because you're a Europe alum. He was the point guard on the Butler teams that made back to back national championship games. He was an assistant with the Atlanta Hawks. He was someone that, whose reputation as a, as like, you know, an eventual head coach was kind of well known for the past few years here. I think there was a real situation where NORAD could have said no to Butler and said I'm going to stick the NBA route and maybe I just continue to cut my teeth at that level and see where I might be, you know, three, four, five years down the road. Do I have a chance there? Instead, he wants to go back to his alma mater and try and help Butler be relevant in the Big East. Josh norad, speak on behalf of the Butler community. Thoughts on him actually saying yes to this job and what is the reasonable level of expectation for the Bulldogs in the next three years?
- [57:37]
Josh Norad
The, the entire Butler community. That's, that's, that's a lot of, a lot of pressure.
- [57:43]
Matt Norlander
You're the voice of the entire Butler fan base right now.
- [57:46]
Gary Parrish
You're the voice of, you're Brad Stevens voice right now. Yep.
- [57:50]
Matt Norlander
Yep.
- [57:51]
Josh Norad
That's.
- [57:51]
Gary Parrish
I want you to speak on behalf of Brad Stevens.
- [57:53]
Matt Norlander
Yes. And I'm sure Brad would appreciate that. So go ahead.
- [57:56]
Josh Norad
I'm sure he seems, he seems like, like just somebody who likes to be spoken for. I, I think, I think NORAD is on the list of names that can give people reason to be a little bit excited. I think there aren't a ton of names that Butler was Gonna get that. Really get the entire community fired up. But because of where he lives in Butler history and where, you know, the fact that there are. There are lots of people that think Ronald Nord is a really good basketball mind and is clearly highly thought of in. In lots of corners of basketball, both at the college level and at the NBA level, that it's. That it's an interesting shot to take. I think it's one that's got upside, but also downside. And, you know, maybe there's a higher floor guy that you. That you go with this time around, because Butler really can't afford to go further in the wrong direction than they are right now. With that being said, I think. I think the way he's approached building his roster since he got the job has gotten the wheels turning because it's very different. I mean, there's a lot. We're doing a lot of, you know, going outside of the United States to find talent. And I think for that reason, it will look different this year. And I think that's fun for a lot of Butler fans, but it's. It'll be. It's a really crucial next couple seasons for. For Butler and for a program that just doesn't have a ton of momentum right now.
- [59:48]
Gary Parrish
Well, the issue facing Butler, first off, with Ronald, it's like I covered those Final Four teams, so I was around him then. I used to work. Shelvin Mack used to work with us at CBS Sports Network. I know healing Shelvin are close. I've heard nothing but good things on a personal level. From a basketball perspective, I've just heard nothing but good things.
- [60:09]
Matt Norlander
The.
- [60:10]
Gary Parrish
The issue facing Butler and Josh, you'd be closer to it than I am, but it just feels like you've got to figure out, you know, how do you get this program to succeed consistently as a member of the Big East? Because when Ronald was the point guard, it was in the Horizon League when Ronald was in school. That was two conferences ago. And, you know, the only reason Butler is where it's at right now as an institution is because of Brad Stevens.
- [60:41]
Matt Norlander
Did you. I literally. Not quite literally. I wrote that today in my. In my four years later because that model was hired in 2022. I gave that hiring. I give that a D plus. Their average KenPom finished the past four years 85th. Didn't make a tournament. And. And they're only in the Big east because of Brad Stevens. So the question, like, the question has been out there like, did Butler need to keep this in the family again? Now maybe NORAD will wind up being the guy. And this is someone who when he was playing in college, like at the Final Four, talked about how he wanted to be a college head coach. So this has been his dream for a long time. But I'm with both of you on this. Like if it doesn't go the right way in the next three or four years, they're going to be. First of all, it might permanently settle Butler into that bottom third of the Big East. And people are already like, why would you necessarily have to feel like you have to keep it just because it's one of those Butler things, like do you have to keep it in the family? But that being said, I fully allow for the possibility that NORAD is going to be the guy and he's going to get this going in a major way. But we can also be pragmatic and practical about where the program stands right now in the midst of all this.
- [61:43]
Gary Parrish
All right, where do you want to go next with it?
- [61:44]
Matt Norlander
Justin Gain is the only other first time coach that I wanted to hit on this. He gets the job, was a Tennessee assistant and they bring him home after Will Wade leaves. It totally makes sense in terms of okay, let's bring someone we know is not going to bail on us, not let alone in the year, but almost certainly not in two or three years. Let's give him time to cultivate something and just someone we can put our arms around. They want to put our their arms around us. Gaines the pick there not ideal that the athletic director called him Jason Gainey when he was introduced at the, at the press conference there. That was some classic NC State she it but, but I do think that that that's a, that's a move that, that makes a lot of sense. And to quote our colleague Tom Fornelli, I love the Justin Gainey hire. I have no idea if it will work out as is often the case in all of these situations there. But that's another first time head coach. And unlike Boston College and unlike Butler, Gainey is stepping into a spot where, you know, there's a, it's not just a fan base there. It's just the general market. That part of the country basketball obsessed. They're really intelligent. They follow it every week of the year. And so while he'll have a little bit of slack initially, he knows pressure will be right there. Right on. As for the other four, we haven't touched on gp. I want just your. I'll lay it out and then you give me your thoughts. Jared Calhoun Goes to Cincinnati, goes home. He's an alum there. That's the coach that they had hoped that they were going to if, you know, if we had polled Cincinnati fans at the start of last season when West Miller was entering the season on the hot seat, Calhoun would have been at the top of their dream list there. He's not a star coach or anything like that. He's not a big name coach, but he's been successful. Youngstown State, adapted to Utah State. So now he goes there and we can see if he can actually indeed get it done and get Cincinnati back into it. Alan Huss takes over for Greg McDermott who has retired. Huss had been his his coach in waiting for a year. Was previously a high point, but previous to that, oh by the way, worked under Mac at Creighton. We'll see what, what goes there. Creighton to me in an interesting spot. Mac had them rolling for the majority of the past decade there. They did not have a good final season under McDermott and now Huss inherits an interesting situation there. Scott Cross agreed to be the coach of Georgia Tech long before that was publicly announced. He just took Troy to the NCAA tournament and he was one of a few finalists there and they got it done. Good on him. No one really knows. He's got a good reputation as a person, has done a good job as a head coach. It's Georgia Tech like it's one stage removed from what what Luke's walking into at bc like this program with that one exception with Alvarado and Josh Pastner coming out of COVID when they had that like fun unexpected year like the Bees have not been relevant for two decades. They're in Atlanta. It is vexing. Why they're not good. Can Cross be the guy that pulls him out of that? And then K State they get Casey Alexander who is ready for his moment. The high major level. K State was hoping Calhoun was going to say yes. That was never going to happen. And so once that didn't happen, they swerved off. They get Alexander who was there for the taking. Belmont shockingly didn't even win a game in the Missouri Valley tournament. But Alexander ran some really good stuff for a while at Belmont. Couldn't get anyone to schedule him ever. Probably his best case scenario in terms of getting a job. But I know he's not a high profile name, but he's a sharp coach and you know, I'm surprised it ended the way it did with Tang. I wrote about him today because it was four years ago that he was hired, he was hired at K State. I might have given him a little bit more of a nice grade than K State fans were hoping. But you did make an Elite eight under Jerome Tank. I take every year equally. And you did go to the elite as a 3. CK State fans, I know it didn't end great. Now you get Casey Alexander. We see where we go from there. Of those four, Calhoun, Sensei, Hustle, Creighton, Cross, the Tech, and then Alexander to the Little Apple. Which one do you find pops to you the most?
- [65:42]
Gary Parrish
I will just add, since you mentioned Jerome Tang, since we've been live, he has been announced as. Yeah, he's going back to Baylor to be on Scott Drew's staff. So that's done. Now let's just on Casey Alexander. You know, I, I go on radio in Kansas City every week. When this hire was made, I was obviously asked about it. I, I get that. You know, immediately people look at NCAA tournament success, they don't see it. And that's a concern. Right. But the way I would, if I were trying to sell you on Casey Alexander, I would do it like this. He has finished top two in his conference, regardless of the school or the conference, in seven of the past 10 seasons. Top two and seven of the past 10. Top four in 10 of the past 10. First at Lipscomb, then at Belmont. The guy knows how to run a program competently. Like, to me, that's more impressive than getting hot in a march for two weeks and saying, look at that round of 32 trip I had. Like, yeah, top two in his conference, regardless of the school or the conference, in seven of the past 10 seasons. Top four in 10 of the past 10. That's a guy who can competently run a basketball program. Now that doesn't mean you're going to be able to, you know, bang heads with Arizona and Kansas. This is a big boy job and there are expectations. But I think Kansas State hired a competent program runner. And before you, you know, start talking about whether it's good or bad, you got to tell me who else they were going to hire. So this is always a thing like who, who. What were the realistic options once you get past everybody's wish list of Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan, where are you turning if you're Kansas State? So like this, this made sense to me. And then with Scott Cross, I need, I need Jared Burson and or CBS Sports research to, to give me an answer to this. So 12 high majors make hires. Four of them hire alums. Among those that didn't is Georgia Tech. But Georgia Tech did hire Scott Cross, who is a UT Arlington alum, who was once fired by UT Arlington. Here's the question. Give me a How many coaches in history have been fired by their ALMA material and then subsequently get a better job at a better school, better conference. You get fired by your school, but then get it. Get a better job at a better school in a better conference. That can't be normal.
- [68:23]
Matt Norlander
Not normal. I'm not going to say never.
- [68:25]
Gary Parrish
I'm not going to.
- [68:26]
Matt Norlander
I'd love to know who else that has happened to. There's. There might be some super obvious answer that I don't have. Yes, specifically not leave fire hurt.
- [68:34]
Gary Parrish
Yeah.
- [68:34]
Matt Norlander
Fired by your alma. And I think I can do you one. I think I can do you one better on that. Hold on, let me bring up the exact year. So fired after a. After three consecutive seasons of 20 plus wins. Maybe that's never happened.
- [68:50]
Gary Parrish
Yeah.
- [68:52]
Matt Norlander
Scott Cross's final three years at UTA. 24, 11, 27, 9, 21 and 13. Get the hell out.
- [68:59]
Gary Parrish
Get out of here. What up? This isn't Texas.
- [69:04]
Matt Norlander
This is Texas Arlington. Good Lord.
- [69:08]
Gary Parrish
I think. I think I might have sent like Scott a text or something like when all that happened. Just like, hey man, I don't know what happened there, but like you, I'm sure you'll be all right. But even I don't know if I was this sure. I don't know if I was this sure he would be all right.
- [69:24]
Matt Norlander
He's done well for himself. I hope he can make it. I hope he can make it work. On a barely related note, it was about a week ago or so. It was like 11 o' clock at night and on I think SEC Network, I had never seen it. And I caught it at like 1102pm at the start. They did the one hour retrospective on the 2008 SEC tournament with the Tornado and obviously that got finished at Georgia Tech and it was just wild to go back and watch that like hours worth of documentary and then the people associated with it and everything that played out there and they played an SEC Tournament championship on an ACC tournament floor and they had. It was just crazy. So I just happened, just recently, unexpectedly flipped the channels and see that. That was. I was like, you know what? I've never watched this. Let's. Let's go back in time on that. That still maybe doesn't get enough due for how just insane that whole situation was. But yeah, they finished that up at Georgia Tech where Scott Cross will be coaching next season.
- [70:22]
Gary Parrish
All Right. Seven notable mid major changes. I'm just going to give you some schools, you tell me what's interesting and, and then we'll call it a show. Belmont, Charleston, Charlotte, Oregon State, St. Mary's USF and Utah State all have new coaches. I think the biggest name at all of them, probably South Florida is now coached by a man who used to coach Louisville and Xavier. His name is Chris. Chris Mack.
- [70:45]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, the Chris Mack one was the rare instance of a relatively well known coach taking over going from one notable school to another. I think that's fair to say. And no one broke this higher. South Florida announced Chris Mack's hiring. It was complete like I think this slipped right under all of our radar. I didn't have any, I didn't have any idea this was happening. Now after the fact it makes sense and that is South Florida a better job than Charleston? I think you can say yes. In fact I know you can say yes in this regard because I did a little digging route on this Charleston for as nice of a job as it is. And Charleston's going to bring in John Gross who's leaving the Midwest and leaving a good job at Akron to go get it done at Charleston. From what I'm told for all of the money they have at at Charleston, which is still good, like it's the best job in its league. That is all fundraising. Like there's no revenue sharing there. Whereas at USF there will be some revenue sharing. He Mac will have more money to work with. And oh by the way, when he was out of coaching for that bit, he didn't live that far away from USF's campus. So he knows the area. He likes Florida, likes that area in general. And so he gets a boot and recharge at usf and good for him. They hired the most accomplished coach of anyone at the mid major level. I believe, I believe that's the, I believe that's the case here. And so good on them for getting that done. In the meantime, Charleston brings on John Gross out of Akron and gets that done there. Also a little bit about a left field. But I hope it works out for both of them in, in that general area, I guess. Charlotte, Wes Miller, when they got booted out of the Big 12 tournament, Wes even said like he, he gave, he gave me a quote on record which was a pretty intense and passionate quote. He didn't know at that point if he was going to lose his job or not. He would and he did obviously. But then when we were done he basically said like I need to keep coaching. So like I believe it should be happening at Cincinnati and it will. And then I essentially said like there's a chance that it, there's a chance like it might. I don't know what to tell you. And then he's like, well, I need to keep coaching and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that I'm coaching again next season. He was pretty determined to do it. And man, gp that feels like a really good bounce back situation for him. Not just that, but he's bringing over Jizzle James who got booted off the team and came back. And I know that was a, a fairly dramatic situation in general, but that is a power conference level lead guard and Keyshawn Tillery who got injured last season and, and, and didn't play to his full capacity would have probably started at the point for Cincinnati had West been retained. So he has. Yeah, I'm not saying it would have been a top two, top three, top four starting backord and Big 12, but like it is a Big 12 starting backcourt that's going to start in the American at Charlotte and that's. This feels like a really, really good spot for Wes Miller and I know that fan base on you and I probably agree with this on some level like because of when we came up, like it's first of all still weird for me to call him Charlotte. That's UNC Charlotte. And UNC Charlotte for much of the 90s and into the mid 2000s as a member of CUSA just was a program that mattered. It was a program that was good. It hasn't mattered for two decades now. And maybe Wes Miller can make it matter so that, that's, that's a good gift for him and for them. Agree.
- [74:16]
Gary Parrish
Shouts to Bobby Lutes. I think that's what you were trying to say. And loots.
- [74:20]
Matt Norlander
Lots loots.
- [74:21]
Gary Parrish
No, when I was in, when I was a, a beat writer it was like Rick Patino at Louisville, Tom Crane at Marquette and Bobby was right there banging heads with all of them. And so there was a moment in time where Charlotte was a legitimate like relevant men's basketball program. And it's harder to do that now in the conference with, in which it resides. But you know, I like seeing Charlotte basketball do nice things.
- [74:55]
Matt Norlander
I, I agree with you a couple more here. Oregon State just gets to bring on like BC and Oregon State are bringing on first time head coaches who are also key players in national championship winning teams. So Justin Joyner leaves Michigan to go start at Oregon State. Which is going to be a member of the new PAC12. Hopefully they can get a good jump start. It's a good thing to put in the press release after the fact and a good thing for them to be able to get done. I like seeing that St. Mary's losing Randy Bennett, but in the process, I mean if you're a St. Mary's fan listening, you know this, but if you've just been kind of following from afar. Mickey McConnell is now the coach at St Mary's he had been on staff obviously, but one of the better players in program history. That's just a cool thing. I like seeing that. I hope it works out for them. Following Randy is not going to be easy at all. Who knows if he can, if he can keep them relatively at the same pace they were. But I thought that was that was really, really cool for them. And then two more Belmont brings on Evan Brads, who's one of the best players in the history of the program. And like this podcast existed when Evan Brads was getting it done with the Bruins in Nashville. He was just on staff with Shire previous to that, worked in the NBA. We'll see notable all the same like that's a good get for them unquestionably. And then you and I have talked plenty about Utah State and how they can't keep coaches around GP I think they're going to here because Ben Jacobson how about this. I got told that K State was at the very least interested in talking to Ben Jacobson. Just like making some communication, some very light informal talk after it had fire tang get a sense of if he might be a guy to do that right. I got told Ben Jacobson outright and right, wrong or otherwise because a lot of coaches once upon a time did have this, this stance on it and it has like Porter Moser had the stance on it in the 2021 Covet tournament and that's partly why he's not at Marquette right now. So coaches would be like I'm not talking to a single person period at all until my team season's over. Some coaches have understandably slightly shifted off of that because they understand the nature of how this stuff has to be work. Now Ben Jacobson still said no, not doing it. Not doing.
- [77:17]
Gary Parrish
I would talk, I would talk.
- [77:19]
Matt Norlander
I'm not doing it whatsoever. And and ultimately I know you would. Ultimately it worked out for him in this regard. Like he did a really nice job for a really long time at Northern Iowa and now he gets a job upgrade. He goes to the Pac 12 and now he's going to run, run the shop there at Utah State and you know, by maybe by pure nature of taking the Utah State job, he's going to make the tournament, you know, the next two years and find himself as the next guy at ucla. I have no idea. Right. But I would, I would guess that after I bring up the Utah State page here, they since Stu Morrell left in 2015, so counting Stu Moral, that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. This will be the 13th season upcoming. There have been seven coaches over a 13 season span at Utah State. Be because there have been so many changes. No coach since Do Moral has lasted more than three years out there at Utah State in Logan, Utah. I think Ben Jacobson will be that guy. I'll say that he's, he's with you for at least five, six seasons there and you got a nice SETI presence. Congrats to the Aggies fans. You got a good one.
- [78:27]
Gary Parrish
All right. Does that feel like a show?
- [78:30]
Matt Norlander
That feels like a show. But with one quick disclaimer, we we are going to be back in your lives very, very soon here because if all goes to plan in the next four plus hours, Tyron Stokes will finally make a college decision. He is the number one prospect in the 2026 high school class. He is going to go on inside the NBA on ESPN with Ernie, Chuck, Kenny and Shaq and he is going to reveal whether he is going to play at Kansas or Kentucky. I think the expectation, and I would say slight, not overwhelming, is that Kansas will be his landing spot but it has been mostly a mystery. He'll finally reveal that it is a decision with a lot hinging on it for both of these programs. So we will talk about that early tomorrow morning because he is doing this after the dinner hour tonight and for a number of factors we just don't have the capacity to hop on live. Later on today he picked a bad day to finally make his final college decision. But we'll let it, we'll let the announcement happen, let some of that immediate reaction filter out and then we will be back with you fairly early on Wednesday morning for another podcast. We'll lead on Stokes and everything tied to that and then we'll we'll talk about another couple of roster related headlines. It'll be a much shorter episode on Wednesday, but that's just your programming. Heads up. You are getting back to back podcasts to wrap up April here on on Ion College Basketball.
- [79:52]
Gary Parrish
Woohoo.
- [79:53]
Matt Norlander
Can't wait There we go.
- [79:55]
Gary Parrish
Can't wait to talk to you early tomorrow morning.
- [79:56]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, buddy.
- [79:57]
Gary Parrish
Bet my eyes are gonna look great.
- [79:58]
Matt Norlander
Someone, by the way, said you're wearing a Super Mario hat in the live chat a little while ago, and that is a bang on comment. It's a Mets hat, but, like, I can see what they meant.
- [80:06]
Gary Parrish
I see what they mean. I see.
- [80:07]
Matt Norlander
That was a very, very, very great.
- [80:09]
Gary Parrish
I can take, I can take criticism from the chat. It's fine.
- [80:12]
Matt Norlander
By the way. We can wrap up. But I had a couple, A couple mentions on the D and B album behind me before these cry streets released 28 years ago today. It's my favorite album of all time.
- [80:20]
Gary Parrish
Hey, I told you. I think I told you. For Christmas, my boys got me a record player, so we've been. So I started putting records behind me, too.
- [80:28]
Matt Norlander
Oh, he's doing my thing.
- [80:30]
Gary Parrish
Taking my thing.
- [80:32]
Matt Norlander
Taking my thing. You're not the first, by the way. I see you, Jeff Passon. Don't think I don't see you once you got here. A little white stripes. There we go. There we go. I like to see it. Okay, there we go. GP Is your, Is your mic no longer working?
- [80:47]
Gary Parrish
I don't know.
- [80:48]
Matt Norlander
Oh, you're good. You're good. You weren't talking.
- [80:50]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I just wanted to show you Jack and Meg.
- [80:52]
Matt Norlander
There's Jack and Meg.
- [80:53]
Gary Parrish
So I went with Jack and Meg. We just listened to it. There's. Is there something soothing about just putting on a vinyl album and, like, cooking dinner?
- [81:01]
Matt Norlander
Yes, I do it all the time. I, I, I put on Casey Musgraves earlier this morning. Wife really likes it. We put on. We put on her big album from a few years back. And yeah, I love the vinyl album. While we're making, Making food. Deal.
- [81:14]
Gary Parrish
It feels very home.
- [81:15]
Matt Norlander
Home.
- [81:15]
Gary Parrish
I just feel very at home. Does that make sense? Yeah, I feel it make. It changes my mood.
- [81:22]
Matt Norlander
I, I get that golden hour. Casey Muskers. That's a good. That's a good. Make a little. Make a little music, Make a little food, Listen to music out there for you.
- [81:33]
Gary Parrish
All right.
- [81:33]
Matt Norlander
Look at you, sneaking in the albums behind you. I, I fully endorse.
- [81:38]
Gary Parrish
I'm gonna start putting albums behind me. I'm gonna sublim in it out. Just. I'm a submarine and out.
- [81:41]
Matt Norlander
Just like, your boy's been doing this for, like eight years now.
- [81:44]
Gary Parrish
I know. I just want to copy everything you do.
- [81:46]
Matt Norlander
All right. That's a show.
- [81:47]
Gary Parrish
All right. I'm gonna get taller next. Next thing I'm gonna do is get
- [81:49]
Matt Norlander
tall and then you'll get hair.
- [81:52]
Gary Parrish
And then I'm gonna get hair. Oh, man, this is gonna be good. It's gonna be a good year for me. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle's a legend. Hawk Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. You're not subscribed. Subscribe please. Go. Subscribe anyway. Subscribe to podcasts like Apple and Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do that and we will talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care.
- [82:31]
Matt Norlander
Of
- [82:35]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [82:38]
Matt Norlander
Criminal Minds Evolution is back. Do you think it's possible to discern some hidden pattern shared by all serial
- [82:43]
Gary Parrish
killers with a new killer each week?
- [82:47]
Matt Norlander
I see those wheels turning.
- [82:49]
Gary Parrish
When a copycat killer emerges, the BAU
- [82:52]
Matt Norlander
will form a dark alliance with a familiar foe.
- [82:54]
Gary Parrish
Elias, would you help us this season?
- [82:57]
Matt Norlander
Season evil is contagious. Problem is, once it starts, it can't be stopped. Criminal Minds Evolution new season streaming May 28th on Paramount Plus.