← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
Mailbag! 🧳📬How many active coaches are future HOFers? Tampering in recruiting, dream Final Fours, listener feedback, podcast origin stories
01:11:15
Loading summary
Transcript258 lines
- [00:00]
Gary Parrish
This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. Hey there, it's Gary Parish from the I Own College basketball podcast. Summer was great, but it's just about over. September is here and that'll get us to fall, which is a time of the year where temperatures can start to drop. At which point perhaps your focus and stamina isn't quite where it needs to be as it pertains to your daily routine. That's where Liquid IV can come in. It can boost your hydration and energy. And it's so convenient. Easy to use. Just throw a packet in your gym bag, in your golf bag, your purse, your glove box, whenever you need it. Just tear, put, pour and enjoy. Want to avoid that afternoon crash? Don't have time to lay down and rest? Let the new energy multiplier work for you. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. Don't let the grind drain you. Ditch the glitch with zero sugar and zero crash from Liquid IV. Tear poor live more go to Liquid IV.com and get 20% off your first order with code I at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with Code I E Y E@liquid I.com thanks.
- [01:01]
Matt Norlander
For selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.
- [01:03]
Gary Parrish
Whoa. When did I get here?
- [01:05]
Matt Norlander
What do you mean?
- [01:05]
Gary Parrish
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [01:11]
Matt Norlander
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer. It is the future. It's it's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [01:22]
Gary Parrish
It's all good. Happens all the time.
- [01:24]
Matt Norlander
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana.
- [01:28]
Gary Parrish
Pick up.
- [01:29]
Matt Norlander
Times may vary and fees may apply. Foreign.
- [01:46]
Gary Parrish
Gary Parrish welcome back CBS Sports. I own college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, dodo birds and leaky black. Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies. If you haven't yet subscribed to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel, you should have already done that. Let's get into it before we get to the questions for this mailbag episode. It's a mailbag episode. Those are always fun. But before we get to the questions, Norlander has emails that he would like to read. I don't even read most of my emails privately, but Norlander likes to read his privately and then also read them publicly.
- [02:22]
Matt Norlander
Well, a couple things One, Please send Gary Parrish all of your emails a reminder. He loves reading them. He loves getting them. Please send them early and often to these are our emails. They're not mine. They're our emails. And so we get, you know, we get, you know, a regular, regular thrum of love letters and correspondence, if you will. So a reminder, top of the show. Call out here if you want to email us at any point for any reason, any comment or question. College basketball stuff is preferred, but we get non college hoop stuff as well. That's fine too. You can contact the show by writing to shouts to CBS gmail.com that is the word to to, not the number. Two shouts to CBS gmail.com so yeah, before we get to the questions, just a few emails from listeners. We recently wrapped our 2025 summer shoot around, but Sawyer from Sock Prairie, Wisconsin sent in a reminder and a tally of how we did in 2024 with our regular season win predictions. So let's take a listen. Let's take a look and hold ourselves accountable. Now you have, you have that up. So look at this now if you're watching, it's helpful if you're listening, I'm obviously going to describe this for you. What I don't think I did in 2025 is I don't think I specifically on most of the episodes, I don't think I gave a specific over under number. So for anyone, and we got a few of these emails that kind of fact checked us, a listener named Monica has another email with some of our predictions from last season. We're going to save that one, Monica for when we do our annual predictions on the eve of the season. But we appreciate you sending that in. So in absence of me doing an over under specific number for the 2025 summer shoot arounds, we might just have to have our listeners hold us accountable and go back and check and see who was actually closer. But a year ago when Parrish accused me of being a hater with all these programs, while I was actually trying to deal in realism, I wound up going 10 and five. Parrish sucking up to all these coaches. Five and ten, buddy. Five and ten on the over under hits. How are we feeling about it?
- [04:21]
Gary Parrish
I feel nothing. I couldn't care less. But continue reading your emails to brag about some from a year ago. I guess there is.
- [04:31]
Matt Norlander
There was by the way on this, on this detail one, it says unf unfriendly wager over under loser gets slap boxed on Yukon. I don't remember agreeing to a slap Box match. I technically won. I'm not going to follow through on that. I don't think.
- [04:45]
Gary Parrish
I think I might have proposed the slap box. And if I have to be on the wrong end of it, I pay my debts. All right? So if you want it, if you.
- [04:52]
Matt Norlander
Owe me a slap, there's no chance I'm slapping.
- [04:56]
Gary Parrish
I will see you at Big 12 media day, and if you want to slap me there, you can slap me there.
- [05:01]
Matt Norlander
I'm not slapping you there. I'm not. I'm not. But we appreciate that that was. I love when our listeners follow up on stuff that we completely forget about on the show. I. I appreciate that, that plenty. We had a. We had writers, listeners write in asking, asking, you know, happy birthdays for themselves or their wives. Unfortunately, when you write this stuff in, we might not read it for two, three, four weeks after, but just. I'll give one shout out. Tessa, happy birthday. Apparently a massive, massive listener to the program, but the birthday was in July, so happy, happy belated happy birthday. It's just we're not gonna try and dissuade any listener from writing any email anytime, but if you're asking for a specific happy birthday shout out, you literally might want to plan ahead and get it like three, three months in advance. So if you want it within real time, we can get to you there. Big Ten fans on the title drought. This actually prompted a lot of response. GP we recently talked on the show about, if you hadn't heard, the Big Ten hasn't won a national title since 2000. What? And then I wondered aloud whether Big Ten fans even care. We got a variety of responses on that. So, yes, well, a lot of them don't care, but they wanted to write in and tell us that they don't care or they're not rooting for the Big Ten. But a few did actually say, you know, it actually does mean it's real to me, damn it. And it does mean something. And I do root for other Big Ten programs to win. I just thought it notable because we brought it up on the show and a lot of people felt prompted to say, like, actually, here's why I'm a Purdue fan. And even if Indiana went and, you know, was in the championship game, like, I would root for him. And then an Indiana fan wrote in to say, hell no, I would not root for Purdue to win the national championship just in the Big Ten drought. So I found that to be. I found that to be intriguing. You might enjoy this one. If you'd like to know what I'd say 20% of our inbox looks like it's emails with this kind of vibe. So Jim, Jim from Colorado, he wrote this a few months back. Okay. He goes, my son and I are at Ball arena watching byu and he is commenting on fans of byu and he was surprised about the BYU group in front of us drinking beers. And I was surprised he was upset about it. My comment was, you don't have to be a Mormon to be a fan of the school. Next, his girlfriend comments on the BYU cougar being a stud mascot. And I reply, yeah, I'm thinking he's having a lot of sex. Guys, I just listened to the mailbag episode and I'm laughing my ass off. And Norlander, congrats on your anniversary. That's the email. Just. Just unprompted freedom of consciousness. I knew you'd appreciate that one. I just love the visual of that just sitting in the arena and some dad familiar with the show being like, you don't know how much sex that that mascot has.
- [07:36]
Gary Parrish
That BYU cougar, like, I'd bet my life on it, has done it a lot. I'd bet my life on that. I can tell. I can. I. I pick up on these things. And I can tell if they ever investigate that cougar, it's going the way of Brandon Davies. There's no getting around it.
- [07:54]
Matt Norlander
There's no doubt about that. We did a dribble handoff like, three weeks ago on just, I don't know, the dregs of the slow off season, who our favorite mascot was in college basketball. And I think I was the last one to put in an answer. And I was like, no one's picked the BYU mascot. This thing is jumping out of planes, you know, doing stunts through rings of fire, trampolining dunks from beyond the three point line. Like, it's not arguable. Cosmo, the BYU mascot, is the best one, but as I was doing it, I was looking up a few different things I could, like, embed in the story just to show you. And. And yeah, I. There was a video or two of this BYU mascot, like, dancing at halftime on the football field. And I'm like, it's got the moves, man.
- [08:31]
Gary Parrish
It's got the moves.
- [08:32]
Matt Norlander
And then it knows.
- [08:33]
Gary Parrish
It knows what it's doing.
- [08:35]
Matt Norlander
In the words of Gary Parrish, I think this is an exact quote. You can't tell me that mascot's never had sex.
- [08:40]
Gary Parrish
So it feels like an exact. It sounds like something I would have said, and it's definitely something I believe.
- [08:47]
Matt Norlander
It'S an early Thursday morning. By the way, parents, if you're listening with kids, this is supposed to be a clean show. But yeah, just beware. We got a few emails about the.
- [08:55]
Gary Parrish
Big the worst thing your kids hear today about what's going on in the world is that the BYU mascot might be having sex. Congratulations. Congratulations.
- [09:06]
Matt Norlander
Correct. Got a few emails, more than a few, about our top 25 stories the past 25 years. Tim and Mass wrote in a couple times. Big listener to the show. We appreciate you, Tim, he said. I love the Top 25 Stories series. The UNC academic fraud thing is so striking now compared to what it was and especially with nil and revenue sharing. Does the concept of a student athlete even exist anymore? And then he said, you know the JJ Reddick out of Morrison stuff. Maybe go back to YouTube and watch the Gus Johnson call of that Sweet 16 game against UCLA. Thanks for that. I really enjoyed the series. I'll confess I sometimes don't listen to the draft preview, so this was a great way to stay engaged with your show in the summer. Note for me, yeah, I wanted to do it not just to take a long stroll down memory lane, but I wanted to give listeners an off season series to keep the pod fresh in the midst of the summer. We had a couple suggestions on things that could have made the list. Andrew I admittedly biased Kansas fan said Kansas winning 14 straight Big 12 regular season titles from 2005 to 2018 should have made the list. It broke the record for most consecutive conference championships by a power conference team beating UCLA back in the day. During the stretch, the Big 12 was home to Kevin Durant, Beasley, Blake Griffin, PJ Tucker, Marcus Smart, Buddy Healed, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kate Cunningham, George Niang, AC Law the Fourth, Chris Middleton, DeMari Carroll, Marcus Denman, Kim English. I don't know how Kim English is squeaking there, but regardless, Kansas beat them all. He's right. There was also some pitches GP for that 08 final four. And I don't know if we ever talked about this on the show, but I did consider that the first time there were all 41 seeds. And it wasn't just that. It was remember Roy coaching against Kansas? Roy wearing the, remember he had the black sweater with the Kansas sticker on which was like, you know, that was like nascent social media stuff. But it was like a, it was the kind of thing that got talked about on, on, on big shows and PTI and all that stuff. He had Hansborough there, UCLA's team back to back Final Fours The Memphis team. So a few people actually mentioned the, the 08 Final Four stuff. So I know we're a little bit removed from that series, but we got a lot of response for us. So I wanted to at least acknowledge.
- [11:02]
Gary Parrish
The people that the like that that's all reasonable everything you just said. I think Mike Decor buddy at Sporting News had some suggestions and the one that one that stood out where I was like ah, yeah was the implementation of the one and done rule. I mean that that's a, that's obviously a big deal that that gave us Kevin Durant unquestionably.
- [11:21]
Matt Norlander
No doubt about it. I don't know if I mentioned this on the pot or not. I debated putting it in and primarily the only reason I didn't. It was a college basketball story. It was instituted by the NBA but. But it probably should have been on the list. Just about ready for the questions. I do want to at least acknowledge like a lot of people will send in long emails. We just can't read them on the pod. There's. They're way, they're way too long. But we appreciate the thoughts. A couple of our questions were actually long emails that I really, really shortened down there. We still by the way, speaking of long emails, we still have people sending in earnest long emails that are meant to go to our colleagues at fantasy baseball today. I don't know how if there's any stopping this but Paris, it's like I don't think we've had one in the past month but like April, May, June, like consistently asking for fantasy baseball fight.
- [12:09]
Gary Parrish
So they're, I mean well then let's, let's. I would take Cal Raleigh. He's breaking records set by Mickey Mantle. He's breaking records set by Ken Griffey Jr. If you could get Cal. If you could get Cal Riley Big dumper on your fantasy team. As the regular season comes to a conclusion and the playoffs get started that, that would make some sense to me. I would try to add Big Dumper.
- [12:34]
Matt Norlander
I'd go Otani if you want my input. I, I'd looked. I'd look to pick him up. Seems like, seems like a solid player and then you know, a good second third round stroke. Picro Armstrong, you know, shouts to the Cubbies. They're doing. They're doing pretty well for themselves this year. You might want to want to check in on PC PCA there. So that's, that's our fantasy baseball corner. Minute last thing on a previous Mailbag episode we had someone ask what the funniest episode was. I don't know what that is, but we've gotten this question a few times in the past year. I know the hardest I've ever laughed on the show was when we were talking about one of Hoops Weiss's tweets about Baylor. I know that for sure. That was. I was in tears and couldn't talk for three minutes. That's like five, six, seven years old at this point. But Kristen for Vermont emailed, no question. I listened to the Dodo Bird episode at least once a year. I've been listening to you guys since early 2020, and to me, that is the absolute apex of your PS More of us, I will say Parrish, like most of the ones that are probably pre2015 are lost to the ether. But there were some ridiculous moments pre2015. And when I say ridiculous, Parrish probably needs to be thankful that those episodes, those episodes can't be. They can't be found anymore.
- [13:50]
Gary Parrish
You know, my buddy Chris Vernon and I talk about this sometimes. Like, in our early radio days, there are bits that we did together that like, could not be done to. Like, not even close. Like, we just could not do. Like we would be. Like you just couldn't. And so, yes, I'm appreciative that some of that stuff is difficult to find.
- [14:09]
Matt Norlander
Paris says. Paris says. Nada says in our private chat, he says, you losing your wallet in New Jersey might be the funniest episode. That was a very good one, I want to say. That was. That was covert times I left.
- [14:20]
Gary Parrish
I had to go to New Jersey to retrieve my wallet one time, like on a random Monday night. And I lost my passport and a edible. A cannabis cookie maker got it back to me. Remember that one?
- [14:37]
Matt Norlander
It's actually astounding that these things weren't. These things weren't gone together forever. If you're watching on YouTube or listening, if you want to shout out a listener, David Glidden in 2023, he wrote a blog post on the origin stories tied to Paris's intro on the podC. So if you're listening or after the show, go read and check that out. If you're curious about camel fighting dodo birds, Leaky Black, he did a whole thing on that with links to those shows. The Dodo Birds episode specifically. If you do want to go back and listen to how that came to be January 8, 2021, we probably get asked once a month from listeners in the inbox, what's this from? Or why do you guys say this? Or when was the first trivia time, etc. That's a good thing because it means new people are finding the show and they want to know. And that's awesome. We're appreciative of it. And, and so, yeah, I wanted to at least acknowledge those listeners. That being said, let's dive into the question.
- [15:28]
Gary Parrish
Sheepy, your first up, first one comes from Mitch. He's in Minneapolis and he wants an updated list. He says his question is inspired by my comment regarding Hubert Davis. Sort of the point I made once upon a time about North Carolina as people discuss the future of that program is like, do you have, you know, I think the way I put it, do you have one of the best coaches in the country running your program? You have one of the best programs. You should have one of the best coaches. And so the way Mitch phrased it was, do you have a future hall of Famer on your sideline? He added, a few years ago you rated the chances of current active coaches making the hall of Fame. Can you update that list? Especially curious with Matt Painter adding multiple Big Ten titles, two national player of the years and a Final Four run. So I just sort of broke it down this way. You tell me if you object to any of this.
- [16:19]
Matt Norlander
Okay.
- [16:20]
Gary Parrish
These are definites, Definite future Naismith Memorial.
- [16:23]
Matt Norlander
Hall of Famers in our inarguable. I could also make the case that that should be the line for a Hall of Famer is when you say it, it's yes, no brainer. Anything else that's short of it, you're not in. That's a separate, separate topic altogether. Give me your names.
- [16:34]
Gary Parrish
Here's what I mean. I mean, they could retire today. This afternoon we do an emergency podcast and someday they would still be in the Naismith Memorial hall of Fame.
- [16:41]
Matt Norlander
Okay.
- [16:42]
Gary Parrish
Scott Drew.
- [16:44]
Matt Norlander
Yes.
- [16:45]
Gary Parrish
Dan Hurley.
- [16:46]
Matt Norlander
Yes.
- [16:47]
Gary Parrish
Mark Few.
- [16:49]
Matt Norlander
Yes. But it gets close.
- [16:50]
Gary Parrish
Kelvin Sampson.
- [16:52]
Matt Norlander
I don't think that's definite yet. I think it's, it should be. I don't think, I don't think he's there. I think he's, I think he is the line. But yeah.
- [17:00]
Gary Parrish
Bruce Pearl.
- [17:02]
Matt Norlander
No, I think it's a toss up.
- [17:04]
Gary Parrish
You look at what he did.
- [17:05]
Matt Norlander
I know. I still think it's a toss up.
- [17:07]
Gary Parrish
Okay, fine. I would call all, I would call those five men definite right now. But I bet I, I, I understand your perspective. Kind of up could, I could see it going any way anyway. I, I could see it. I'm not sure of it though, how you feel about Rick Barnes.
- [17:24]
Matt Norlander
Toss up. I have, I have two. I have two. So here's what I have. We keep going with your list. I have active with a title not yet in the hall. Hurley? Yes, he's getting there. Scott Drew. Yes, he's getting there. Todd golden. He's too young. Other. All others that are active are in the hall already. They have a national title. South Patino is ocal. Then I've got active coaches with the final Four. To me you need to make a final four to get to the hall. With rare exception, like rare exception, you got to get to at least one final Four. So there are five group names in that group. You mentioned three or four of them. Few in Sampson. I have them as yes, they're going to make it. By the way, my two toss ups are Rick Barnes and Bruce Pearl. Barnes getting a second Final four would be. Would get him a lot closer. Bruce Pearl, another final four would be undoubted about it. Bruce Pearl might get it. I just don't like it if you. I don't know if it's 100 with Bruce Pearl. That's all.
- [18:14]
Gary Parrish
How do you feel about this one? And this is I think a stretch, but I could argue it. I think, I think unlikely, but I could argue it. How do you feel about Randy Bennett?
- [18:25]
Matt Norlander
Not there. I have him among the most accomplished coaches without a Final Four. I've got along with. I'll save that for the end of this conversation. But I would put other coaches ahead of him.
- [18:34]
Gary Parrish
That's fine. It's just like I would at least take a look at that.
- [18:37]
Matt Norlander
Given one other coach you haven't named yet that I think is pacing to be a Hall of Famer for sure.
- [18:44]
Gary Parrish
I mean I've got another category of on the way. Like these guys are on the way to the hall of Fame.
- [18:49]
Matt Norlander
Let's. Let's hear it. The way I did it is they're pacing to be one maybe, but another pacing to be one but not there yet. And another Final four would put it up for debate.
- [18:59]
Gary Parrish
I, I think Matt Painter, obviously I think he's a.
- [19:01]
Matt Norlander
He's my. He's the other one. So I think he is going to get there. I think because he's going to either be the all time wins leader in the Big Ten after Izzo retires or at worst he'll be number two to Izzo. He's made a final Four. The other thing that's going to help with Matt Painter. I'm not saying this should be the thing that. But it does matter. Matt Painter has been involved in a variety of committees throughout the NCAA and through basketball has connections with USA Basketball for 15, 20 years. At this point, he's among the most well liked people in all of basketball. Not college basketball, all of basketball. His win percent he is going. He's now made a Final Four. I think Matt Painter coaching another five years will only increase his overall win total. His win percentage. I think he's headed there. If he retired today, would he get in? That's a different question. He's not going to retire today. He's not going to try to retire next year. He's not going to retire the year after that. He's going to get there.
- [19:46]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I agree. I don't, I don't know that. If he retired today, he'd be in. But he's not retiring today and he's going to do enough stuff between today and when he retires. He will be in the hall of Fame someday. Here's one for you. I think this guy will be in the Naismith Memorial hall of Fame someday. You ready for this? Ben McCollum.
- [20:06]
Matt Norlander
It's, I mean we have a question on them a column coming here. He. That's. It's. It's wild to say this because he's only coached one year in Division 1, but it's not outrageous. He was dominant at the D2 level. So if he can be a top five coach in the Big Ten for the next 15 years, then yes, you could get there. Also McCollum, because of how he's wired and how good he is, it's not unthinkable to me. Kind of like Todd golden, to be frank, where if they're, if, if they continue to have sex, success, success over the next like four or five years. Okay. And they want to take a, take a leap to the NBA. That wouldn't surprise me either. But Bevacolum is not on my list. I have. Let me give you my real quick pacing to be.
- [20:48]
Gary Parrish
I've got other guys who I think are. Could be on the way. That's the way I phrase it. Like could, like I could see here.
- [20:52]
Matt Norlander
Here are guys they've all. I've got guys that have made a Final Four. So Final Four guys that I would say are nos right now. But if you get to another Final Four, then the conversation changes. Okay? Mick Cronin, Chris Beard, Dana Altman, Thad Mata, Shaka Smart, still kind of young Shaka, Porter Moser, Brian Dutcher. They've all made a Final Four. They're all well established. But I don't, I'm none of those names do I Feel overwhelmingly confident will get to the. Get to the hall of Fame. If you made me say yes or no, at least one of them now, I'll say yes. But if all of them retired within the next, say, two years without another Final Four, I don't think any of them would get into the Hall.
- [21:32]
Gary Parrish
Guys I've got on my list of, like, could be on the way. Like, they're clearly not there yet, but they've got theoretically a lot of years to coach. And I could see their careers unfolding in a way that gets them to the Nates Memorial hall of Fame in part because of their talents, their abilities and their already accomplishments, and also because of the jobs they have now. So on that list, Nate Oats.
- [21:58]
Matt Norlander
Yep.
- [22:00]
Gary Parrish
Tommy Lloyd.
- [22:01]
Matt Norlander
Yep.
- [22:03]
Gary Parrish
Dusty May.
- [22:04]
Matt Norlander
Dusty May and Oats have made a Final Four. There's one more coach that's made a Final Four. That's on the too soon to tell.
- [22:08]
Gary Parrish
List for me, Ty Golden.
- [22:10]
Matt Norlander
I already mentioned him because he's got national title. The other coach that has a Final Four is Sean Duck.
- [22:16]
Gary Parrish
Is who?
- [22:17]
Matt Norlander
Shire. He's got a final force.
- [22:19]
Gary Parrish
Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, John.
- [22:20]
Matt Norlander
Yes.
- [22:20]
Gary Parrish
I would. I would bet right now that John Shire ends up in the hall of Fame gp.
- [22:24]
Matt Norlander
He's three, four years in. Like, he could bet that, though. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, fair enough. But obviously that's. We're way too soon to tell on that.
- [22:30]
Gary Parrish
Yeah. But I would if I. If you have. I. If you told me I could take a future bet. Yes or no? I would say yes.
- [22:36]
Matt Norlander
Yes.
- [22:37]
Gary Parrish
Mick Cronin.
- [22:39]
Matt Norlander
Cronin for sure. I mean, he's got a Final Four. He's not there yet, but if he gets another one, you know, we'll see. He. He got his Final Four when they didn't have a great team. They were an 11th seat that year. They were in the first four, but yeah.
- [22:49]
Gary Parrish
Brian Dutcher.
- [22:50]
Matt Norlander
Yep.
- [22:52]
Gary Parrish
Here's a guy who hasn't made a Final Four and has barely won anything in the NCAA tournament, but I could see him being in the hall of Fame someday. Mark Pope.
- [23:02]
Matt Norlander
Way too early to tell.
- [23:03]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I agree, but I think I could see it. He's got the Kentucky job and I think he's good.
- [23:07]
Matt Norlander
Yep. Yep.
- [23:07]
Gary Parrish
That's a good. That's a wonderful combination. If your goal is to make the hall of Fame, you're good and you've got the Kentucky job. Sean Miller.
- [23:15]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Here's who I have. Most accomplished coaches without a Final Four. Okay. So none of these coaches are going to the hall of Fame unless they get to a Final Four at minimum. At least one at minimum, in my opinion. Sean Miller, Randy Bennett, Greg McDermott, Buzz Williams, Jamie Dixon, Steve Alford, those are your most accomplished winning as coaches. They're not hall of Fame material yet. They're really, really good coaches. But we're talking about, again, not talking about the College Basketball hall of Fame. Like Randy Bennett will go to the College Basketball hall of Fame. We're talking about the Naismith Memorial hall of Fame, the big hall of Fame, the hall of Fame that matters. It's hard to get in. You might even need to argue that those guys I just list have to win a national title to get there. They're very, very good coaches. But I'm sorry, we're not, you know, there's not 22 coaches right now in college basketball that are going to be hall of Famers. This is a hard list to get into. And the names you just, you know, rattle off kind of speak to that.
- [24:02]
Gary Parrish
Tron Ares has arrived. I would like you to meet Ares, the ultimate AI soldier.
- [24:07]
Matt Norlander
He is biblically strong and supremely intelligent. You think you're in control of this?
- [24:14]
Gary Parrish
You're not.
- [24:15]
Matt Norlander
On October 10th, what are you? My world is coming.
- [24:19]
Gary Parrish
Something to destroy yours.
- [24:21]
Matt Norlander
But I can help you.
- [24:22]
Gary Parrish
The war for our world begins in Imax. Tron Aries, rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.
- [24:32]
Ajad
What's up everyone? It's the counselor of Cash Seeing Ajad from the Early Edge, a daily sports betting show powered by Sportsline and part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network. If you're looking for the best bets, picks and analysis for the day in sports, we're your one stop shop. We're locked in every day with NFL bets and player props, college football picks and so much more. Download and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found. Subscribe to the SportsLine YouTube page to watch us live at 10am Eastern Time every weekday. Make sure to turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single pick all season long. Good luck.
- [25:03]
Matt Norlander
Your fantasy season doesn't end after your draft. The Fantasy Football Today podcast is going to get you through the season and to a championship. Fantasy Football Today, part of CBS Sports Podcast Network, has episodes every single day. Waiver wire, trade talk, starter sit, mail bags and more. If you want to win your league, you need to listen to Fantasy Football Today, download and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found.
- [25:32]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, are we ready for question number two?
- [25:34]
Matt Norlander
Yep. Good question.
- [25:36]
Gary Parrish
Let's remind both of ourselves.
- [25:38]
Matt Norlander
We got to get out of here. I know. We'll run. Scott in Indiana asked just a couple of years ago, tampering seemed to really raise blood pressures and coaches would mention how other programs were trying to get their players in the portal. Has the outlook on tampering and recruiting from other programs changed? Have coaches just accepted that's how it is? They know it's happening rather than getting all pissed about it, they accept it and do it themselves. It seems not nearly as taboo this year. Yes, for sure. My opinion is yes for sure. It is more tolerated slash accepted. Some coaches have been forced to adapt. It doesn't mean it doesn't still chap some guys asses. I had a story that went up earlier this week on the on we're in a very weird cycle in place in college basketball, high school recruiting right now. We have a very delayed run of action on commitments that's tied to high school prospects and their agents not getting nearly as much money offerings or seeking more than it's actually on the table for them. And a lot of coaches are are a bit lost. It's been actually kind of surprising to see the feedback on this. But in talking and having those conversations and reporting out that story, you know, the tampering stuff does come up occasionally in conversations as well. And a lot of coaches understand that the nature of the beast is different than what it once was. It doesn't mean it doesn't still bother coaches. It definitely still does and it definitely still happens. Izzo spoke on the Record about this multiple times at the end of last season. I think he might have even done it again over the summer. But it is not nearly as taboo or as hot of a topic as it was even three or four years ago. Doesn't mean that coaches don't get so pissed about it. They do. But where we are is just a different climate and environment. And there are some coaches that have just kind of accepted the fact that if they've got a good player as a mid major coach or even as a high major coach, that player could have his agent or one of his grassroots coaches kind of put the word out late January, early February. Hey, you know, if you're looking for someone at your program, my guy might have eyes, might be looking around, might be willing to move. And fair or not, fun or not, that's just the nature of the beast. What's your take?
- [27:48]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I mean like it's not even to the extent that some coaches still get bothered by it. They Also seem to recognize there's nothing they can do about it. Like, nobody's changing the world at this point. And it does seem more accepted than ever. Multi year contracts for student athletes. Athletes can make this less of an issue. Although I sat with a coach at Peach Jam who told me a story about them having a player under contract, like literally signed him to a contract and another school came in and took him anyway. Yep, yeah, yeah. And they, I, I think and this coach was like, I even picked up the phone and called the other staff. Like, I think if I remember the story correctly, they're in the same league. And, and he was like, hey, you guys know, like this kid's not just committed to us. We have a signed contract, like a, a document. And they're like, all right, all right, all right, well we'll, we'll holler back at you. And it was then the kid just went to the other school. Like it just was, you know, it is what it is. I think that's it. In the classic phrase, it is what it is. It just sort of.
- [28:51]
Matt Norlander
I'm waiting on that follow up though. There are a couple coaches I spoke to back in April, May, they had players break their contracts and at the time they were adamant that they were going to hold those players accountable.
- [29:01]
Gary Parrish
Oh, this coach told me, this coach told me and I have told my administration, go do what you got to do. Like legally, like we signed a contract and if we want to go after the young man who signed this contract and is now in violation of the contract, let's go. Like this is the business world now, so let's go do business. Like, yeah, yeah, you're going to hear.
- [29:21]
Matt Norlander
A lot of stories like that anyway, boil it down. It still matters, still bothers coaches, but it is not nearly as volcanic of a topic as it was in say 2022. Your next JP.
- [29:30]
Gary Parrish
All right, we got a email from Bo Bob. He's in New York. He wrote, I wanted to compliment Norland. Look at you with these emails. I wanted to come.
- [29:40]
Matt Norlander
I'm copy pasting the email who looks.
- [29:42]
Gary Parrish
So thin and handsome and tan every time I turn on the ion college about. Surprised you didn't add that in there.
- [29:47]
Matt Norlander
Well, I don't, I don't add in what's not written.
- [29:49]
Gary Parrish
So I wanted to, I wanted to compliment Norland. Let me, let you, let me compile these emails.
- [29:54]
Matt Norlander
It's called, it's called the setup. Just read that, read the email.
- [29:58]
Gary Parrish
I'm gonna write emails to myself.
- [29:59]
Matt Norlander
Okay.
- [30:01]
Gary Parrish
That say I wanted to compliment GP that's the way every email is going to start. I wanted to compliment Norlander on his excellent article on NCAA tournament expansion, especially his storytelling through the use of statistics to debunk some pro expansion claims. Instead of expansion, should the NCAA tournament not give out 32 automatic bids to conferences? That's his question. That's his first question. Let's just stop here for a second. Sure. Instead of expanding the tournament, would we be better served keeping it at 68 and just not giving out automatic bids to the 32 conference tournament champions? What do you think?
- [30:37]
Matt Norlander
Okay, so we'll keep this kind of quick and tight. This general idea I know was very informally and very quickly discussed and tossed out there year or two ago. The idea being the threshold would essentially whatever you, however, you were going to clear the bar as an automatic bid team through your net ranking and other metrics or whatever. The idea would be if we even went there, which to be clear, they are not doing this. But the idea was, okay, you would still have 28 or 29 of the 32 auto bid teams clearing that. And in the years where you might just have teams that are sub 500, barely 500 haven't beaten a single team that's ranked in the top 200 of a given metric. Those teams then would not qualify for the tournament in that specific instance. Again, I am staunchly anti expansion. I would do that trade off to keep the field at 68. This is, it's a three part question that, that Bob sent in here, but his first one was the most intriguing one. A lot of people, it's a non starter. I completely get it. You want every single conference represented no matter what, no matter how great, how bad the teams. I get all that. But if you told me that there was an either or, in order to keep the tournament at 68, you had to have this new method where you know, 27 or 28 Autobids would get in. But you know, in some seasons like that, you'd exchange two or three low majors for two or three high majors. I would make that deal to keep it at 68.
- [32:09]
Gary Parrish
I would not. I, I would be happy to shrink Division 1. We do not need 32 conferences playing Division 1 men's basketball. It's ridiculous and silly. The idea that A school ranked 324th is technically by definition, definition competing for the same trophy as Kentucky and Duke is outrageous. So I'd be happy to shrink Division 1, but as long as we have 32 conferences in Division 1, like part of what makes the tournament special, the season March special is that there's a path for, for a team from every one of them to play in the big bracket.
- [32:43]
Matt Norlander
And I agree.
- [32:44]
Gary Parrish
And it, it provides us with championship week and it gives us the St. Peter story. And I wouldn't want to lose that unless we lose it to shrink Division one. But if, if, and even then we wouldn't lose that, we would just have less of it. But as long as we've got 32 conferences and a 68 team field, then I want auto bids for all 32. And if you told me we have to expand or cut auto bids, I would say expand before cut auto bids. But I don't want to do either one of them.
- [33:14]
Matt Norlander
Okay. Yep, fair enough question to read it.
- [33:16]
Gary Parrish
Off True or false. The three conferences that want expansion the most have to be the ACC, Big east and the new Pac 12. I'll go with F. What do you think?
- [33:24]
Matt Norlander
It is false. And Bob, this was one of those long he had a tremendously awesome long email but we just can't squeeze all everything that he was putting in context for the show. So I did have to have to simplify this. This is false one because there are prominent people in every single one of these leagues who have told me they don't want the tournament to expand. And in terms of like on record stuff, I've heard this from the likes of Dan Hurley, John Shire, new pack 12 is Gonzaga. Mark Few has no desire to see the NCAA tournament expand beyond 68 teams. The I don't know where the new pack, the new PAC12 and its commissioner Teresa Gould stands on expansion. But I know Jim Phillips, at least you know, casually. We've spoken about this topic before and he's, you know, he's political about it, understandably so he's got to worry about more about his ACC teams doing better to get into a 68 team field. But no, I think this is false. I I think the conferences that want expansion the most, if I had to rank the top three, I don't know if any of those three would rank inside the top three.
- [34:23]
Gary Parrish
As a third question is more or less a question about is the best argument for tournament expansion that we could theoretically get more mid majors. And I guess my response to that would be it's, it's an argument for expansion but I don't think the people actually pushing for expansion care at all about the mid majors. And not to be harsh, but me personally, I don't need a bigger tournament just to include more mid majors that are not going to win the national championship Anyway, it might be an argument other people make, but it's not one I would co sign.
- [35:02]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, it is an argument that some other people make. This kind of circles back to what I mentioned before. I don't want to expand the tournament period under any circumstances, but Bob crunched the math on data from since the past, you know, 15 years basically and he said since they've tracked who's been in, who's been out, you know, around 40 of the teams if you project it out, would benefit mid major type teams. I, I just expanding to 72 or 76 to justify bringing in two or three more mid majors doesn't, doesn't make it worth the bloat. To me the trade off is not worth it. But regardless, Bob, appreciate everything you sent in. He had some really, really kind words about the show. Kind words about you. I just didn't put in the email talk, that's all.
- [35:47]
Gary Parrish
That's. That was nice.
- [35:50]
Matt Norlander
Justin from Kansas City has a trivia time. It was for us, but he gave the answer, so it's just for gp. I'm going to read it here. In light of Ben McCullough, by the way, you did not, you did not look up the answers to this, right? You're going into this semi fresh. I trust you. You didn't research this.
- [36:03]
Gary Parrish
I don't know that I'm trustworthy, but come on.
- [36:05]
Matt Norlander
Oh my gosh.
- [36:07]
Gary Parrish
Ben McCollum, future Naismith Memorial hall of Famer. You heard it here first.
- [36:10]
Matt Norlander
Correct. So this is also a trivia time for our viewers and listeners. Play along at home. In light of Ben McCollum's immediate success at Drake after dominating in D2, can you name the three winningest Division 1 men's basketball head coaches whose first head coaching job was not division one? So it was either in D2, D3, NAIA or junior college. And then do you think Ben will join this list of those coaches? I'll give you the answer in just a second. He's currently at 426 career wins. Is Ben McCollum. The hints on this? These are three different categories for these coaches. One of the answers is A, is a Hall of Famer. Another has won a national title and it's not in the hall of Fame. And the third is still active.
- [36:53]
Gary Parrish
Okay, I will start with Bob Huggins.
- [36:57]
Matt Norlander
Bob Huggins is the hall of famer. 935 career wins. He started at Naia Walsh University.
- [37:03]
Gary Parrish
I will continue my list with Jim Calhoun.
- [37:08]
Matt Norlander
Jim Calhoun is not one of the answers. If he isn't indeed an answer Hold. Look up Jim Calhoun. Real quick. Did he start outside D1 when he was a head coach? Looking. Looking Northeastern. D1 first job.
- [37:21]
Gary Parrish
Okay, okay. Can I correct you? Yes. His first job was Northeastern. He got it in 1972. It was not a Division 1 job. It did not become Division 1 until 1979. Jim Calhoun technically started his career outside of Division 1.
- [37:36]
Matt Norlander
All right, Justin. Justin, you're about to get it. Here we go. This isn't for GP this is for Justin.
- [37:41]
Gary Parrish
I was wrong.
- [37:42]
Matt Norlander
All right, Justin, you got to do better. I'll count that. But there's still two. Still two other names.
- [37:47]
Gary Parrish
Kelvin Sampson.
- [37:48]
Matt Norlander
Kelvin Sampson started at NAIA, Montana Tech. He is your active coach with 790, 98 or 99, I guess, depending on the math. Career Wins, he'll cross 800 in the first week of the season. The other name that you haven't guessed yet has an ass.
- [38:03]
Gary Parrish
Cliff Ellis.
- [38:04]
Matt Norlander
No, he did because he didn't win a national title. He, the other coach, won a national championship.
- [38:12]
Gary Parrish
He won 900 games.
- [38:14]
Matt Norlander
He didn't win a national title.
- [38:16]
Gary Parrish
Well, you said the winning is coaches who didn't start their career in Division 1. How is Cliff Ellis not on the list?
- [38:23]
Matt Norlander
This is Justin from Kansas City. What do you want from me?
- [38:26]
Gary Parrish
Cliff Ellis started at Cumberland in AIA, transitioned to Division 1 and ended up winning more than 900 games.
- [38:33]
Matt Norlander
Oh, my gosh. GP just pulling these off the top of his head. I know that for sure. He didn't research that whatsoever. The answer is Rolly Massimino. 816 career when started at D3 School, Stony Brook.
- [38:43]
Gary Parrish
816. What's more, 909 or 816?
- [38:51]
Matt Norlander
I'm just reading the. You know what? Justin gets the show, okay? He sent in a super flawed trivia time. I appreciate that. There's at least five of them. Okay. As for McCollum, he's 44, okay? If he turns out to be really good and again wants to be someone who chooses to coach in college for a long time, he'll be in the game. You know, let's just reasonably put him like steps away at 64, right? Who knows what college basketball look like 20 years from now. In that scenario, he eclipses 800 wins for sure. Because consider we're going to go to longer schedules in the years to come so he'll have more opportunities to win more games. He could get to 900, frankly, in that scenario. So, yes, to circle back to what GP talked about near the start of the show. If McCollum is who we think he's going to be, then he will have a very good chance at being one of the four or five winningest coaches in history to not start his career in D1.
- [39:44]
Gary Parrish
Carolina basketball isn't just a program, it's a legacy. I'm John Henson and we'll be the host of Tar Heel247, a UNC basketball podcast for fans who bleed Carolina blue. Each week I'll be joined by players, coaches and insiders for real, unfiltered conversations about the team, the tradition, maybe some funny stories and everything in between. No filters, no fluff. Just hoop talk the Tar Heel way. Subscribe now to Tar Heel247@ UNC Basketball Podcast or wherever you get your podcast at. We will have a good time. Let's get ready to go.
- [40:20]
Ajad
What's up everyone? It's Sia Najad from Fantasy Football Today dfs, a weekly NFL daily fantasy show that's a part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network. If you're looking for NFL game by game previews, which players stock is up or down, and DFS strategies and advice, Mike McClure, Meg Shoup and I have you covered every single week. Download and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found. Make sure to turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single pick all season long. Good luck.
- [40:49]
Matt Norlander
It's football season and you gotta keep up with the action. Listen in to Pushing the Pile, part of CBS Sports Podcast Network with Mike Renner, Kyle Long and now me JP Acosta for smart analysis of everything between the lines. With four episodes a week, Sunday night recaps, film review, power tiers and weekly previews, you will know ball. Stick with us until one team lifts the Lombardi Download and follow Pushing the Pile on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found.
- [41:19]
Gary Parrish
All right, next question comes from Jeff. He's in Idaho Falls. He writes. In November the Players ERA Festival will play a 20 team MTE in Las Vegas. Vegas and reports claim that the Players Air Festival will expand to as many as 32 teams as soon as November 2026. What sort of impact could this have on the other early season tournaments like Maui, Battle for Atlantis, ESPN Events Classic in Orlando and others? Could we even see Maui eventually filled with mid major teams? If or when the Players ERA Festival does expand to 32, what sort of impact do you think that will have on college basketball? Is it possible that 32 team players era festival could actually have an overall positive effect for college basketball and pull attention away from College football and even the NFL while November madness is happening. I'll answer that last part first. Nothing's really pulling attention away from the NFL or college football. Like that's just you know, me and Norlander and you know Jeff and Idaho Falls will be locked into college basketball.
- [42:14]
Matt Norlander
And the millions of our listeners parish, let's be fair.
- [42:17]
Gary Parrish
But, but like you know, college, NFL and college football, we, there's nothing college basketball can do about that. All right, so there's that you've written a lot about this. I think my understanding is obviously it's terrible for the battle for Atlantis in Maui because and I do believe you will see in, in future years the, the fields look less impressive than they have historically been. And the reason is because there's money to be made now doing these things and Maui could be a money loser, you know, for, for some schools.
- [42:53]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:53]
Gary Parrish
And like the players ERA Festival is going to be a money maker for your players. And so yes, I, I, I guess I'd say I'd answer it this way. It, it may or may not be good for quote college basketball. We can debate that separately but undeniably it is. It's bad for the other tournaments that are competing against it.
- [43:16]
Matt Norlander
A few things here. Jeff mistakenly had us a 20 team MTE. It will be 18 teams this season. Yes. The plan is for it to be 32. We'll see. Maybe that, maybe there's more to report on, on that in the coming weeks. We'll see. I know there's still some invitations being sent out for the 32 team. What they're planning to be a 32 team players era festival for 20, 26. I don't, I'm not a fan of this event going to 32 teams because I don't like the fact that it undeniably will have significant impacts on other multi team events or as we call them MTEs. It's just too big to me. 18. It's going to be 18 this year. That'll be interesting to see how that all works out. I just, it's just too many teams now that, that being said, if this actually does come to pass with 32 teams and they can somehow get the money to make it sustainable because there's still a lot of skepticism over like is this thing going to exist in three years? Like how can they still be doing this? Where is all the money coming from? The checks all cleared last year when it was an eight team event. Remember there's still four women's teams that are doing this as well. High end teams, you know, you got your Duke, South Carolina and on down the way. They've got some big name programs involved there. But if they do do it and you have a 32 team event with, I mean, be conservative about it, Parrish, you know, 20 of the most notable schools in the country in this event where you're gonna have a big bracket in pool play, it's not going to draw attention away from the NFL or college football, but it will enhance the prominence of college basketball in November. I don't think that's deniable because there's never been anything like this. And this idea that you'd have a 32 team bracketed event around Thanksgiving, which is such a huge sports week, I do think it can, I think that event can uplift the sport. I just don't like how it's going to suck out and draw away from the others. Right now the battle for Atlantis for 2026 doesn't have a single team committed.
- [45:22]
Gary Parrish
Okay.
- [45:23]
Matt Norlander
It's the ESPN used to run that. ESPN doesn't even run anymore. It's actually the same group that runs Maui is now running Battle for Atlantis. And I checked when we got this email, I checked in yesterday on this. There's not a single team, not one that is committed to Atlantis for 2026. There's concerns that, that, that, that event, if it could die and if it doesn't die, what kind of teams is it going to get? Maui does have like Maui's already announced. To compare the two, Maui has already announced its 2026 field. The battle for Atlantis, which for about a six, seven year run was punching evenly with Maui to be the best MTE in the sport. It's now wondering like, are we going to be able to field our event with the bottom third power five programs that aren't going to players era that aren't going to Maui. Maui is done all right for itself. This year's field is just okay. Arizona State, Boise State, Chaminade, NC State, which got a boost with Will Wade. When NC State was going well, Wade was not the coach. Seton Hall. Texas gets a boost with Sean Miller, USC gets a boost with Eric Musselman and Washington State. Next year's fields better, Arizona, byu, Clemson, Colorado State, Ole Miss, Providence VC and Washington. So a little bit better. But these tournaments are not what they once were. You're going to see the MTE space greatly change. I'll tell you this like we look up in 2030, how the college basketball calendar is populated with MTE events which will still exist. Is going to look very different from what it looked like in 2021. 2022. The ESPN event that happens in Orlando that used to be an 18 three game event that got chopped in half. It's now just a 222 game event now. And a lot of this is a function of what the players ERA has done. It'll be a huge deal. I just don't like the idea of one event taking 32 teams and diluting everything else on the calendar. But if they do pull it off, it will have it'll undeniably be a massive, massive deal. If you can get that many schools involved. We'll see. We'll see what the other schools that get invited if they say yes. I know right now currently there are invites going out and schools are determining if they're going to be involved in this in 26.
- [47:22]
Gary Parrish
All right, next question. I think it's yours, right?
- [47:24]
Matt Norlander
It is Daniel. A Utah State fantasy identified in his email. He actually had a Utah State question. Daniel, I'm sorry we got to stick this to the, to the big boys here. He has questions on two other Utah programs. He actually also had a Weber State question. God bless your heart Daniel. But we're going to stick with the two that on the, on the two power conference programs here. He wants to know is Alex Jensen the real deal or will this NBA experience coach go down as a failed attempt to win the arms race with byu? As an Aggie fan I want to say that job isn't fixable. Meaning. Meaning Utah because I thought Craig Smith was good. He just didn't have the buy in to build a consistently competitive team. He's got a BYU question as well but I'll save that for a second. Jensen. I'll go first in gp. I. I will be interested to see how this goes. If you told me it didn't work and he's back on an NBA sideline in two or three years I'd believe you. Has a long history of working in the NBA. Really good reputation there. But he was A.D. you thought A.D. mark Harlan's top target. That's why Craig Smith got fired when he did and received plenty of blowback for doing so because he didn't want to allow Craig Smith any kind of out to have a late season run and have a case to hold on to his job. So he asked him had Jensen lined up brings him in. They do that. They raise money. The Utah fan base knows who is he played on the 98 team that made the Final Four. I mean really well known There. And maybe this does hit. I think there's a chance it does. Utah, you know, go do your history. Look at Utah is clearly one of the 25 best programs in the history of men's college basketball. And you may be able to make the case that it's top 20 overall. But in the past 10 years, like, you don't think of it like that right now, because for the past 10 years, like, the program has largely been relegated to the background of the sport. It's been mostly irrelevant. So the gentle stuff is interesting to me. What are your thoughts on that before we address the BYU question?
- [49:02]
Gary Parrish
No idea. We'll see. You know, like, did they give him the resources to, to be competitive, assuming he has the capabilities to, you know, run a high major program? We'll see. I, but I, I think anybody with a strong opinion on that one way or another at this, in this moment is just, they're just guessing.
- [49:25]
Matt Norlander
For byu, I want to first, I want to hear first of all how the idea for Smash that like button like your brand debuts was born. And then also with the influx of talent like AJ DeBance is this year, this year, the BYU finally shakes off the most NCAA tournament appearances without a Final Four title. How is the Smash that like button, like Brandon Davies was born again? We get these questions all the time. What's this stuff comes from gp I think you know the answer.
- [49:49]
Gary Parrish
I, I, I'm not sure I know the answer exactly, but I can, I can connect some dots. The Brandon Davies thing just came up one time we were talking about byu and I just, I, I, I still to this day think it's wild that you could be kicked off a possible final 14 for having sex. I don't care. I think it's crazy. All right, not crazy. That's the wrong word. I think it's interesting. All right, say what you mean.
- [50:14]
Matt Norlander
It's more than interesting. Wild. BYU wouldn't be on this list if they didn't do that.
- [50:19]
Gary Parrish
But yeah, they were, they were maybe, they were maybe going to a Final Four.
- [50:22]
Matt Norlander
Yeah.
- [50:22]
Gary Parrish
And, and they kicked one of their best players off the team.
- [50:26]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. And that's, Let me just jump in. And then we became the first sports podcast, period, go to video. As people knew, we were the first ones to do it. And as those shows were getting going, I said, you know, the common lingo is to smash that like button. You know, just smash it. And then you said, yeah, smash it like Brandon Davies.
- [50:44]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, because I know he did. Because I know, I know he would. I know he Would. I've seen. I've. I've heard about his work. I haven't seen it, but I've heard about his work. I know that he would. And then, of course, that's where. Also where more of us came from, because I started getting a little pushback because I was like, I'm for premarital sex. All right? I would never punch somebody for premarital sex. I'm for it.
- [51:05]
Matt Norlander
Yes. All right?
- [51:06]
Gary Parrish
And then people. I got pushback. They were like, well, you can't be promoting premarital sex. And I'm like, what? Hold on a second. You guys aren't going to act like I'm in the minority here. Most of us are having premarital sex, all right? Most of us had premarital sex and enjoyed it. And so there's more of us than there are of you. That's what I meant. So stop trying to shame me. You're on the minority side of this, not me. I got strength in numbers in my premarital 6 army. There's more of us than there are of them. And then, yeah, they were like, you gotta. You know, we're going to YouTube, and you gotta tell people to smash. They literally. That was the phrase smash the like button. And I was like, is there not a better way to say this? I mean, maybe I'm too old, but there's not. Perhaps I'm too old, but to know. But it sounds like there's got to be a better way to say this than smash the like button. But that was the quote. But I was told to use. I was like, all right, so smash the like button. And then the person that popped in my head who smashed Brandon Davies, and that's how. That's how we got here, I think.
- [52:00]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, smash the like button. Like Wilt Chamberlain. It just doesn't. It doesn't hit the same way, I guess. Okay, Final Four. Does it happen this year for byu? You've got. I don't. I don't know, five in your rankings. History would indicate with GP preseason prediction patterns that when it comes time for us to send in our forecast, he will have BYU in his Final Four.
- [52:22]
Gary Parrish
Well, we'll see. But I do have him third, 251 right now, so a Final Four is very much in the cards. Hard to get there. But is it possible? Sure. And it is the. Is it the best chance they've had since they kicked Brandon Davies off the team for doing it? This. This might be the best opportunity BYU has had to go to a Final Four since they Kicked Brandon Davies off the team for doing.
- [52:45]
Matt Norlander
Doing.
- [52:46]
Gary Parrish
I think that's a quote status.
- [52:49]
Matt Norlander
True. BYU is going to 32 NCAA tournaments and never made the Final Four. I got a double trivia time for you right now.
- [52:54]
Gary Parrish
All right.
- [52:56]
Matt Norlander
How many times has BYU made the Elite Eight? We talk about how they never made the Final Four, but how many times do you think they've gotten to the doorstep of the final four?
- [53:04]
Gary Parrish
One.
- [53:05]
Matt Norlander
It's been three. The most recent was 1981, March of 81, before I was even born. Which surprised me. If you would add the over under, you know, 1983 or June of 83, I would have taken more recently. But three times they'd made the Elite Eight. Never. In the expanded tournament era, BYU is famously the number one team with the most appearances. The number two school without a Final Four has been to the NCAAs 30 times. Who is it?
- [53:31]
Gary Parrish
Tennessee?
- [53:33]
Matt Norlander
It is Xavier. I think Tennessee might be 29 or 28. Xavier is number two with 31. More bonus for you. Not a trivia time. The program with the most NCAA tournaments not to make the Elite Eight or even the Sweet Sixteen, it's Murray State. They've gone 18 times to the tournament. They've never made the second weekend. Good question. I liked it. You're not. You're next up, Nick from Cleveland.
- [53:54]
Gary Parrish
Nick from Cleveland writes, I started listening to you guys about a year ago. I was amazed. Amazed how two non former coaches and players are sound like Ryan Clark.
- [54:06]
Matt Norlander
That's right.
- [54:08]
Gary Parrish
This is from Ryan Clark. This is from Ryan Clark in Bristol. He says he's amazed that two non former coaches and players are so plugged in. It amazes me that you guys have heard coaches have had. Have head coaches texting you guys about topics and thoughts. Can you speak on how hard it was to be trusted in the industry and how certain relationships work with current and former coaches? Yeah. First off, I think what helps us in that regard specifically is that we are not just two podcasters. We both came to this industry as reporters, as writers, as you know, we both worked at newspapers. We both have reporting backgrounds. And when you have reporting backgrounds, it means that you've created relationships and sources and you stay in touch with these people and you develop relationships and then you, you nurture those relationships and it can help you be. I think that's the biggest. To the extent we have an advantage over other people who do this and we don't have advantages over every. But like we, we know the people we're talking about more often than not and as opposed to like if I were doing a Hollywood like movie podcast, I would just be sitting here talking about people I've never met, never been around, don't know much about other than what I see on tv. But for these purposes, these are, we are often talking about people we know coaches, we know coaches we've been around. And I, I think the biggest help, full tool connected all that is that we, we have, we have. This is not our only job to talk into these microphones and, and we had vastly different jobs before we got to this place. Does that make sense?
- [56:01]
Matt Norlander
It does. I won't belabor echo a lot of what you said. It's a lot of time, a lot of investment, a lot of investment for the right way. Don't always, you know, hit up these people just looking for something, making it a one way avenue. Not always calling when you need something and getting to know them on a personal level. Yeah, a lot goes into it. Takes a lot of time for sure, but it's worth it. And I appreciate the email and that was also, that was also complimentary of Gary Parrish. I want it to be known for the record here, that was a, that was an email that was complimenting G.P. sean from Norwalk, Connecticut. I used to live there, by the way, asks, it's a fun question before I do that. How long did it take you to research this question? How much time did you put in this one?
- [56:42]
Gary Parrish
I spent, I actually spent some time on this.
- [56:45]
Matt Norlander
25 minutes for me on this one.
- [56:46]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, it was up there. I was up there. I was watching Mets, Padres and scrolling Wikipedia.
- [56:52]
Matt Norlander
There we go. This is the kind of creativity we like. Although it was a little bit of a homework assignment. He asked us both proud reps of your respective home states. I'd love to know your home states, Mount Rushmore of famous people with these parameters. Rules are they must have been born in your state, not just played in, lived in and or attended a college in your state. So he wants to know the actor, actress, the athlete, the musician and then a wild card pick. So we'll go one at a time. Actor, actress. I live in Connecticut. This one is easy. It is Katharine Hepburn. She was born here, lived here, died here, buried here. One of the 10 most famous actresses in the history of this country. Close. You know, actor, actresses that you know have Connecticut roots as well that were in the conversation. Glenn Close. Paul Giamatti was actually the son of a former major league baseball commissioner, but Katherine Hepburn is definitely the most prominent person in that, in that field. From Connecticut. What about from Mississippi.
- [57:49]
Gary Parrish
I think I would have to go with Oprah Winfrey.
- [57:53]
Matt Norlander
Oh, I did. You know, I know she was. I don't think I knew that she was she. Because she is most pro. That's the other thing is some, some people on this list that we're about to do, they had some strong ties to Connecticut, but they weren't born there. When people think Oprah, they think Chicago. Right.
- [58:06]
Gary Parrish
But she was born in Mississippi and though mostly famous from the Oprah Winfrey show and just being Oprah Winfrey, she is an actress and was actually, I believe, nominated for an Oscar.
- [58:17]
Matt Norlander
Right?
- [58:18]
Gary Parrish
Yeah. The Color Purple.
- [58:19]
Matt Norlander
Right.
- [58:19]
Gary Parrish
So Oprah Winfrey, big star.
- [58:21]
Matt Norlander
Okay, athlete, you go first.
- [58:24]
Gary Parrish
I've got options here and for sure. Well, you can argue that, and I'm not making this argument, but you, you could try to if you wanted to, that the greatest wide receiver and running back in history.
- [58:37]
Matt Norlander
It's not, this is, this is not up for debate. It's Jerry Rice and Walter Payton.
- [58:41]
Gary Parrish
Yeah. Yeah. They're both born in Mississippi. So I'm picking between Walter Payton and Jerry Rice and I think I went with Walter Payton.
- [58:46]
Matt Norlander
Ah, look at you. Thank you, buddy. I appreciate that. Let's go Bears here. I think Walter Payton's the most well rounded football player in the history of the sport. Jerry Rice, if you want to say, is the, the best receiver, best athlete, I'd buy that too. I've always been, I've always loved the fact that Jerry Rice and Walter Payton came from HBCUs were and then went on to just utter domination. I just, I've always loved that, you know, Mississippi Valley State for Jerry Rice and then Jackson State for Walter Payton. Actually just got a, I just got myself a Walter Payton hoodie just earlier this week. There's. That's awesome stuff. So you go Peyton over Rice. I like it. Okay. Connecticut's tough. Okay. Marcus Camby, Dwight Freeney, Chris Dunn, these were high level prospects that were born in Connecticut, came out of Connecticut, but I don't think, you know, they don't have strong ties to Connecticut. Dorothy Hamill won a gold medal in figure skating. Didn't pick her. Mike Jaminsky, my wife actually went to the same high school as Mike Jaminsky, but he was, you know, he was in High School 50 years ago. He was one of the first great Duke players. Played a long career in the NBA. Bobby Valentine had a 10 year MLB career, but more known for post playing. He has a very strong connection to Stanford, Connecticut and Connecticut in general. He lives here, but I'm actually going to go with Chris Drury. He scored more than 600 points in the NHL and he was the star on the Little league World Series team from Trumbull, Connecticut.
- [60:16]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, I remember that.
- [60:18]
Matt Norlander
That won the whole thing in 1989. So he went from middle Little league World series baseball star to really, really good hockey player. He still lives in the state, so he's like a homegrown talent, still connected to the state. Had big moments there. I think he's probably it. Overall, Connecticut is not overflowing with a lot. You know, like in a given year, the state might have, I don't know, GP, like one or two high level D1 basketball recruits. It just doesn't. It doesn't provide a ton on the athlete end. But I think I would go Drury overall. Okay. Third category was musician. This one is not hard. It is John Mayer, who grew up in Fairfield, Connecticut, about, I don't know, 20 minutes or so from where I'm at. When I was in college, someone I worked with on the. On the student newspaper, his name was Clay. So this is. This is early 2000s. This is just when, like, mayor's starting to break out. He's not nearly as famous then as he is now, but I'll never forget the story. We were just working in the newspaper offices one day doing some pagination or whatever, and somehow Mayer comes up. I don't know how, maybe he was playing a local concert, I don't know. But somehow he comes up and at this point it's like he's. He's fledgling. Like, he's not. He's not a super, super duper. Well known, but he's no. Like, there's this. There's this guy who's like a really good guitar player and. Yeah, whatever. And he goes, man, I hate that guy. I can't stand that guy. He's the worst. And I'm like, why? He's like, I went to high school with him. I was like, oh, damn. Okay, that's kind of cool. He's like, it ain't cool because Clay, you know, he played around town, like he played in bands. He's like this dude, one day, you know, it's after school, I'm just like sitting with my friends and I'm like, I'm not even like sitting in a. In a, you know, crisscross applesauce playing my guitar. I'm just like, I just have it on me. And he comes up, he's like, yo, dude, can I borrow that? Now I want to be clear as I'm about to say this, and it's going to be listening to a lot of people. Maybe this story wasn't true, but he certainly told it like it was true. He goes, and then John Mayer comes over, asks if he can borrow my guitar. I say, sure. It's like 30 minutes later. He's like, on the other side of the high school campus. He's got, like 15 women around him, and they're all just totally enamored with these dudes. Like, I've hated them ever since.
- [62:23]
Gary Parrish
It sounds like John Mayer.
- [62:25]
Matt Norlander
It totally does. It was. It was. We were cracking up the way that he was telling the story. Mayer is by far the most famous musician to come from Connecticut.
- [62:33]
Gary Parrish
Well, we got you beat down here in Mississippi.
- [62:35]
Matt Norlander
Unquestionable. I know that.
- [62:38]
Gary Parrish
We have the King of Rock and Roll.
- [62:39]
Matt Norlander
Cultural disadvantaged. I'm not. I'm not of the belief otherwise. Don't worry.
- [62:42]
Gary Parrish
We have the King of Rock and Roll, Elvis Presley. We have the King of the Blues, B.B.
- [62:46]
Matt Norlander
King.
- [62:49]
Gary Parrish
We also have Robert Johnson. Yeah, we've got Jimmy. Yeah, we've got Jimmy Buffett.
- [62:56]
Matt Norlander
I mean, you've already said the winner, though. Of course.
- [62:59]
Gary Parrish
Of course. I mean, just the other ones, if you want rap, Rick Ross, blues, Muddy Waters. Ike Turner is from Mississippi. Bo Diddley from Mississippi. Bo. But the answer, I think's, got to be Elvis Aaron Presley.
- [63:11]
Matt Norlander
All right, who's your wild card? Can be any other athlete, politician, anyone. Who was your wild card pick?
- [63:16]
Gary Parrish
I mean, I've got some good options already mentioned. Jerry Rice. Could be BB King, could be Archie Manning. How about this one? Could be Jim Henson.
- [63:27]
Matt Norlander
It's not a bad call.
- [63:29]
Gary Parrish
William Faulkner.
- [63:30]
Matt Norlander
Ah, I think he's at the top of the list. Yeah, they got so many good writers.
- [63:34]
Gary Parrish
James Earl Jones. I think my wild card. I'll go William Faulkner, Just to put a writer in there. So my Mount Rushmore of Mississippi, based on these requirements would be Oprah Winfrey, Walter Payton, Elvis Presley, and William Faulkner.
- [63:49]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, you win. I'll. I've got Katharine Hepburn, Chris Drury, John Mayer. And then if the person did not have to be born in the state, it would be Mark Twain, because he had a very strong connection to Connecticut, lived here, is buried here for the second half of his life. But he wasn't born here. He's born in Missouri. I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with someone who was a massive deal for about 100 years, P.T. barnum. As in Barnum and Bailey, the Circus. Born, lived, raised, died in Connecticut. Huge cult. Like, genuinely a huge cultural figure in this country from, you know, the 1850s into, you know, the mid 20th century overall. There's some others that we're kind of getting tighter on time. I won't belabor the point, but this was a really good question. You made us think a lot. Gpu.
- [64:31]
Gary Parrish
Your next step was from Fort Wayne. He has questions and some unsolicited advice.
- [64:37]
Matt Norlander
Okay.
- [64:38]
Gary Parrish
Okay, Sam. GP Why do you hike your leg a little bit like you're posing for a pick when you're on cbs? Okay, let's just stop there for a second. This question feels like it comes from Wally Zerbiak.
- [64:50]
Matt Norlander
Maybe it does. I don't know what he's talking. I couldn't even picture what he was trying to describe here. I don't know.
- [64:55]
Gary Parrish
I, I know exactly what he's talking about. When we are, when we're doing stand ups, I, you can, you could probably find pictures of me, like, in studio. I am constantly standing next to people who are much taller than I am. And I somehow convinced myself that if I just like, put my right foot on my tippy toes a little bit, I, It'll, it'll compensate for that. And I didn't even. It's not a decision I actually made consciously. It's just something I started doing. And Wally is among the people who pointed out. He's like, oh, come on, GP get on your toes. And I'm just standing there all five, seven and a half short as. But, but that, that is, that, that is the explanation for it. Here's the explanation. Makes no sense. I get it. It doesn't work. It's not an effective. But if you ever see me standing strangely on television, it is because somewhere in my stupid head, I've convinced myself that it makes me look taller.
- [65:52]
Matt Norlander
Okay, why don't you read off the unsolicited advice for me?
- [65:56]
Gary Parrish
Oh, yeah, let's see here. Mr. Norlander, purchase some texturing powder for your hair. It will be much better than the product you're using now. What kind of product do you use?
- [66:07]
Matt Norlander
I use like an old spice wax, I guess. I actually really like, I've got fine hair. I'm wearing a hat today, so no hair stuff here. I just, I love that. And what's wild about, like, I got my hair cut about a week ago and when I got a cut at the end of it, this is. I got my haircut before I read this email. And at the end of the haircut, the person who's cutting my hair is like, hey, I got this new texturing powder you want to give it a go? I was like, sure, let's do it. And they put it in. I was like, this actually isn't bad. So the emailer might indeed be correct, but I'm just cracking up over the idea that someone's just like, I can't stand the way Paris stands on television in Norlander. You got to fix your hair. And so these are the emails that maybe we're not looking for, but they give me a chuckle. Also, he was desperate for us not to shout out his business, which I find to be hilarious. This we won't. But I don't know why you would say that, Sam, because it wasn't. Doesn't feel like there's. You got to run from it. Appreciate the email. Next one.
- [66:56]
Gary Parrish
We might need to wrap this up after this one.
- [66:59]
Matt Norlander
Okay, well, we have to do this one. Hey, Matt and G.P. my name is Jackson and I'm 16 from South Dakota, and I have the question of the century. Who are you taking? Tucker and Darian DeVries versus Doug and Greg McDermott in a wrestling match? I wondered if we had done this one on the show before. I don't think so. I texted both coaches. Here's the weight, height, and weight. Okay? Greg McDermott, 6, 8, 2, 7 5. Darren DeVries is 6, 3, 2, 10 and a lefty. Tucker DeVries is 22, going on 23. Doug is 33. Doug is 6 6, 225. Tucker is 6, 7, 2, 20 ish. I. I told Greg this. He is a hoss. I know he's got. I know he's 10 years older than Darren. And in fact, hold on. Greg said. He said, I would have to kill D. Remember, these people all know each other, and DeVries were on the same staff for a long time at Creighton. He goes, I would have to kill Drock to get him to quit, but I would get there eventually. And they sent, like, five laughing emojis. I will take the McDermotts in this.
- [67:55]
Gary Parrish
Situation, I'm saying I think I would also take the McDermotts. And based on size, I looked all this up to Greg. Six, six. Doug was. Greg is six, eight. Doug was. Is six, six. The age advantage Devries, but just size, I think is advantage McDermott. And it is funny. Like, as I was thinking through this, the thought that. The first thought that popped in my head was, Greg McDermott is massive. He's the type of man. This happens to me sometimes when you go to greet somebody, you know, and it's like the informal. Like one of these and then you come in for like a little hug and I can. I have a memory of like hugging Greg McDermott in that way. But my, like my ear just goes into his belly button. I just, I'm hugging him but my ears in his belly button.
- [68:42]
Matt Norlander
It's. It's a really really. It's a really, really good question. I can be really quick on the last one for you to read and we'll save the other one for another mailbag. Unless you think we definitely have to get out of here now.
- [68:52]
Gary Parrish
I.
- [68:54]
Matt Norlander
Whatever you want it to, you read it. Let's do it real quick.
- [68:58]
Gary Parrish
The last question.
- [68:59]
Matt Norlander
Your. Your last question, Jacob.
- [69:01]
Gary Parrish
Okay, this is from Jacob in Richmond, Virginia. After thinking back to the Final Four this past year with all ones with all one sees, which made for some great games, it really got me thinking. What is needed to make up a legendary Final Four weekend? What does the perfect Final Four look like for you? And he goes through a bunch of options, but you can imagine all the options. What's the perfect Final Four for you?
- [69:20]
Matt Norlander
Okay, I'll be quick on this. The city, New Orleans. Best one maybe Vegas eventually, but I'll take New Orleans then. Here are my teams. Team one, give me a Cinderella story. I'll take it every time. A mid major team that's reached that stage last had it in 2023 with FAU. Team two, give me a team with either zero, one or two losses max. I want a powerhouse with a gaudy record. Want to see them on the biggest stage, how they handle the final realm. Ideally you if you have that in the mid major team, they don't play each other until the title game. We last had a gaudy team like that in 21, Gonzaga and Baylor. Team three, give me a team that has the national player of the year and or the projected number one pick in the draft. I want the biggest star on the biggest stage in college basketball. We had that this past year with Cooper Flack and oh by the two national player of the candidates with him and broom and then team four, give me a blue blood program. If you lost count, it's one of these schools. Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, UConn, Louisville and I would argue maybe Villanova's wobbling. I've booted Indiana from this context until they can get back to another final four. We last had this this year with Duke. We obviously had the all blue blood final four in 2022. Some of those might overlap but if you give me four scenarios, four teams, that is what I'm doing for my Dream Final Four.
- [70:27]
Gary Parrish
Yeah, like some, some combination of that stuff is all good. I think I'd go like two blue blood. So give me some combination of a Duke Kentucky or a Kansas, North Carolina or a Kansas Duke. Like give me two of those and then give me another really good team that's got the projected number one pick in the draft on it. Like so we have that storyline and then give me that Wichita State team with Fred Van Vlieton Round Baker that was undefeated going into the tournament and then they're undefeated going to the final four. Two Blue Bloods and undefeated mid major and the number one pick in the draft. That'd be fun and like but, but our bosses would, would want the just the biggest brands period. Like they were begging for Duke Kentucky title game in 2015 with Kentucky going for a possible undefeated national championship. That would have been like as that's exactly the type of thing they want. So give me two schools like that and then give me a, a number one pick in an undefeated mid major. And we got, we got, we got just about everything covered that we need.
- [71:25]
Matt Norlander
I want to thank everyone for sending in some emails. We got a few more that we're going to save for another mailbag later this year. I will say I'll end it with this and then we can wrap the fan base and I'll make this up for you Indiana fans, you Indiana and your fan base. It's, it's the school that I would put at the top of the list amongst I've covered every final four since 2011. The school that hasn't been there since at least 2011 that I most want to see get there and just kind of experience it. I would put Indiana at the top of that list. We'll see if, you know, circle back to De Vries. We'll see if he can get that done sometime in the coming years.
- [71:54]
Gary Parrish
Well, first he's going to have to recover from that beating from Greg.
- [71:57]
Matt Norlander
Easy. You got to figure out good luck.
- [71:59]
Gary Parrish
Trying to get to a final Four after you just got your ass kicked by Greg McDermott.
- [72:02]
Matt Norlander
All right.
- [72:03]
Gary Parrish
But, but we wish everybody luck. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle, legend Hustle Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching. Listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anyway. You subscribe to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. Do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care. Paramount Podcast Sunday, you can count on the NFL on cbs, delivering a great slate of games, including two of the league's best receivers going head to head when ja' Marr Chase and the Bengals meet Justin Jefferson's Vikings caught at the.
- [72:52]
Matt Norlander
Goal line for the touchdown.
- [72:54]
Gary Parrish
The fun gets started at noon Eastern with a special throwback edition of the NFL Today. You can always count on Sundays with the NFL on CBS and Paramount.
- [73:05]
Matt Norlander
Plus.