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Eye On College Basketball
March Madness 2025 Final Four Recap: Houston ROARS BACK vs. Duke; Florida knocks out Auburn
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- [00:00]
Travis Matthew
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- [00:08]
Gary Parish
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- [02:05]
Matt Norlander
Hey there, Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports Island College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, dodo birds and leaky black. Matt Norlander's here with me. Look at him. He's right there. Hello, by the Alamo Dome. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to that. Like button shouts to Brandon Davies and you haven't yet subscribed to the CBS Sports College Basketball channel. Shame on you. You should have done that already. Let's get into it. We're obviously going to talk both national semifinals, but we're going to start with the second one because it was an instant classic and a game that will be talked about for many years to come. Final score, Houston 70, Duke 67. The Blue Devils were up 14 points with 803 to play, up nine with 206 to play, up six with 34 seconds remaining and still lost the game out scored 25 to eight. The 8.02, outscored 9.0in the final 33 seconds. Norlander, good to see you. How wild was that?
- [02:59]
John Fanta
Well, J.P. it's great to see you. We're coming left for anyone listening after the fact of the morning. We appreciate you. It is 103 local time as we're live here. GP just did stuff on set. I did some HQ. I'm still going to finish this column here, but this is why I love doing the show. It's why I love covering this tournament. I'm still. I'm still truly trying to process what I just saw there, right here in front of me on this court. You know, it's just there. Houston's ability to refuse to die is not something that's new. This has been a fundamental feature of this program for years and years and years. It really has. Doesn't mean that Houston can't be beat. It can, but if you're going to beat Houston, you're going to lose some vital organs along the way, and most of the time, you're just not going to do it. Not going to be able to beat this team and what they were able to do here and just rip the life out of Duke, a Duke team that. GP I'm going to give you the. The vibe in the building as I'm sitting here on press row. When it went down, you know, Duke, the. The Duke side was over there. Houston was here on a. On a. On a personal note, I talked to Jim Nance a little bit before the game, said hello at halftime. Matt, what are you thinking? Well, Jim, it's good that it's. That it's 6 instead of 10 right now. He still had a belief. And sure enough, as it was, as the clock was ticking down, we actually. We actually, like, we locked out. It's not as romantic as I'm about to make it sound, but we literally.
- [04:24]
Matt Norlander
It sounds really romantic.
- [04:25]
John Fanta
Literally locked eyes and the joy in this man's face. Really, really happy for Jim. I know he got plenty of camera time, but I'm just telling you, before we got to that moment, this building was prepared for what seemed inevitable. It just felt like Duke was going to eke out this game, figure out a way flag, hit a three on that side of the floor. That felt like four when it went in. He had the. He had the block on this side of the floor. It just seemed like they were going to have just enough like Houston still tugging the rope, and they're still tugging the rope, and it's just. Duke's gonna be able to make this happen. Proctor doesn't make the foul shot, obviously. You've got just stones, stones, free throws from. From Juwan Roberts. You had the, the JoJo Tugler play, which was the, which was the technical. I just. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna call it the most unlikely comeback ever, because statistically it's not GP I'm just telling you. I just don't ever think that I've been in a building where the feeling of which team was gonna win the game more violently swung in a shorter period of time on the game clock than this one. And there's a lot of reasons why it happened. But I do think, and this is going to be part of what I write here, so I'm still even like building out the column and who even knows how the hell this thing's going to read. The things that gave us concern, and if you won't even use that word or just reason to speculate on Duke's national championship prospects back in October and November, Duke was not the preseason number one team or two team or three teams was that they had a hell of a lot of talent, but they had a lot of young guys. They didn't have a lot of collective experience playing together, and they lacked that year over year continuity in ways that Houston really exposed. Houston was not as talented as Duke, but it was a whole hell of a lot older. They had a whole hell of a lot of guys that have been here for multiple, multiple years. I have a line in my story from Kellen Sampson, who told me before the game, we can't match Duke and talent, but we can match him in length and damn, did that wind up being a huge factor in the final few minutes. This was a stunner. You got to have two to tango. It was just as much of a Duke collapse as it was a Houston comeback. I remain astounded and impressed by Kelvin Sampson's team's ability to just refuse to die it. Parrish. I'm. I. I just. I've never seen anything like it with a college team. Like this. It's just year over year over year. And they just. They dragged him into the pit of hell and said, we're not dying. It's not going to be us. You're going to lose this game. Sure enough, they did it. I want your thoughts and how you took in this game and what it felt like. Obviously, you did the show on CBS Sports Network removed from the arena. So what did it feel like to intake this from the broadcast end of it? Because sometimes those can be slightly different feelings versus being inside the building.
- [07:12]
Matt Norlander
It was a weird game because just for transparency, we've got a green room and a convention center right outside of our set, and we all gather in there and watch the game together. And so we're all watching this game. And I know it ultimately got to a point where it looked like the old veteran, tough, physical team took advantage of the young guys, but it didn't look that way for like 32 minutes. For about 32 minutes of this game, it looked like Duke was just, well, one team's got pros and the other team Dutton. Every time Houston got a bucket to make it feel like, okay, here, maybe they're getting back in it. Cooper Flag 3. Conquer Nipple 3. It was just like, boom, let's kick it right back up to eight or nine. Get comfortable again. And it just sort of felt like, houston is awesome, Houston is tough. Houston could probably beat any other team in the country, but I don't know that they're going to be able to get this done. And then it's like, okay, now it's within reach. Okay, whoa. It's really in reach. And then it just like, it really went from even with two minutes to go, this is still fine for Duke to what just happened. And in that way, it did feel a little like Kansas Memphis in the same building back in 2008.
- [08:26]
John Fanta
Great call.
- [08:27]
Matt Norlander
Except that the Kansas Memphis thing, that collapse, happened really over just a span of a couple of minutes at the end. This was building toward it for eight minutes, and then it just splashed. And I. I don't want to say that I've never seen anything like it because, as you know, I don't even remember all the things that I've seen, but that. That felt like. I'll just revert back to what I said earlier. It felt like this is a game we're gonna remember forever. The next time Duke is in a big spot, we'll reference back to it. John Shire. Until John Shire breaks through and wins a national championship, he will have to talk about this Game forever. Because then I'll give it back to you. Like I said tonight on CBS Sports Network, this is not the NFL. This is not the NBA. You don't get to just run it back like how many times because it's well documented now that John, you know, leaned on Brad Stevens a little bit in terms of roster building philosophy. And the interesting thing I, I, I gather from that is like Brad Stevens was coaching a team, running a team. How many times did they not get where they were trying to get with Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum? Like a bunch. You could count it when you're, you know, wake up tomorrow, but eventually you just keep running it back. It's like, we got our core, these are our guys. We're gonna try it again, try it again, and eventually it happens. You don't get that in college basketball hardly ever and definitely not anymore. With few exceptions. John Shire knows, and you can see it on his face, hear it in his voice when he's talking to Tracy Wolfson afterward. He had one shot with this team, and I'll put it as simple as this. He had the best team in the country according to predictive metrics, one of the best teams in the past three decades according to Kinpom, the best player in the country. And you're up 14 with a little more than eight to go and nine with a little more than two to go. You have got to win that game, you've got to close that out. And when you don't, it hurts. And you will carry that around forever.
- [10:18]
John Fanta
Here's a couple quotes from John Shire. Quote, it was just a matter of our guys, they didn't want to lose. And the key thing in those games is playing not to lose, but instead playing the win. I mean, shoot, these games are as tough as can be. But yeah, it's just something where in those moments you have to double down on who you are, have to have that leadership on the court, have to have that toughness to get a stop. Because we had a couple plays that were four or five point swings. You know, those swings can seem small in one play. I'm continuing Shire here, but you do a few of them and it changes the complexion of the game. And then they're playing with free money. You give them credit, but they're playing with free money. You know what that is? It's a quote I haven't used all season. It's what John Shire told me when I sat down with him in October when he talked about playing NC State and losing last year in the Elite Eight. And it applies what happened here tonight against Houston. Different team, different situation. The bittersweet thing, if you want to call it that, about Duke is that Shire's gotten better with each passing year, the team is going deeper into the tournament and the way that Duke is getting knocked out of this field is getting more excruciating with each passing year. If the pattern continues a year from now, I don't even want to imagine how Duke would lose in a national championship game in that scenario. But they've progressively gotten deep in the bracket and losses have been even worse. And by the way, for folks watching live or listening, we are going to have another podcast on Sunday to preview all the title game stuff. So this is very much react and respond to what happened in front of us here. It's more looking back and doing all that. The previous stuff is going to wait for the Sunday show continue on Duke before getting a little Houston. Obviously we're going to give the Gators plenty of love. Cooper Flag had a tremendous game. Let me toss it back to you real quick. Personally now, I didn't love the play for his shot, but as see on James in the locker room after said 100 times out of 100 we want the ball in his hands with that shot more than okay with it. I wasn't at the press conference but I think they were mostly okay with it wasn't a miserable design or anything like that. I just wasn't expecting Flag to quasi settle for what was what a 15 foot fadeaway jumper with Roberts having his hand in his face. So before we go a little bit more on Duke here, any issues with the player even beyond that? GP Were you expecting that kind of action, that kind of set, that kind of look in that huge spot when obviously Duke needed the bucket to get a chance to win.
- [12:37]
Matt Norlander
Well, I don't like anything that's going to get you in a situation Cooper Flag and Juwan Roberts is there to be able to contest at 50, 15ft. Like if that's I don't want that. This is the best basketball player in college. You know, I let's let. There are times, you'll know what I mean. There are times when a ball comes out of somebody's hand and you're like, okay, that's it, that's the shot. That's what they want. And when it came out of his hand I was like, who knows if it'll go in or not. But I was like, I don't like that shot. Was a. You know, keep in mind though, and early in the season when there were some Cooper Flag skeptics that existed, it was late game stuff that, you know, he fell down a couple of times or whatever, he would dribble too little, too much. And here he was in a situation and it's easy to point to as a bad shot or not a great shot or whatever. But think about it from this perspective. He was an 18 year old literally playing against 22 year olds who and the best defensive team in college basketball. Like I never thought he was going to get a great shot, if I'm being honest. I didn't think he was going to get a great shot. I thought he was going to have to make an incredible play and he's capable of it. But he didn't do it there.
- [13:47]
John Fanta
He didn't do it there. It's not all on him. In fact, he had himself a really nice game. Again, let's keep it more Duke and then we'll get Houston Love up and down the Duke situation flag incredible, 27 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists. Actually became the first player ever in a Final Four to lead his team in all categories because he also had three blocks and two steals. Had never been a player at a final four game that led or co led in all five categories. He did that in this game. I the over the back from my.
- [14:18]
Matt Norlander
Angle actually I, I did not like that.
- [14:20]
John Fanta
So how about this? So and if you can't really see my if you're watching you listen let alone but my angle here, like I, I've got it right on a 45 degree I actually in real time it looked like a good call from my angle. But then when I went back and watched I, I, I didn't love it. I, I don't think it was egregious but it sounds like you thought it should have been a play on.
- [14:41]
Matt Norlander
I would have let it play on. I would not have if you put like I'm not an official, obviously I'm only a doctor, not an official. But I would not blow the whistle there. I'd let that play. I don't want to blow the whistle there.
- [14:52]
John Fanta
Okay, fair enough. And, and even if they don't blow the whistle, no guarantee that Duke wins. But obviously that foul, like there were just, you know, six, seven, eight, nine things that, that were going Houston's way. Go on down the list with the team. Proctor misses the foul shot. We go back to the stuff in the early part of the season. All right. Can Proctor be that guy? Seven points, two of eight from the field and boy oh boy. Missed the front end of a one and one. That was big knipple I thought for the most part was was pretty solid overall he had bigger moments in the first half than the second half. Come on. Awful playing 21 minutes it is it was a no show but and I will give the the idea that Houston could keep a 7 foot 2 dude who had been wreaking terror more often than not. 0 rebounds 00 Reba him and then see on James didn't have a great game. I didn't even love the the maybe they were trying to avoid getting foul but like they had what 3.7 on the clock and like even the play here like he's throwing it and it was like throwing chum for the Sharks. Like Houston gets the tip. Duke doesn't even get an opportunity there. It is fair and I think I did watch Shire's interview with Tracy GP it is fair to criticize him for how he mishandled this down the stretch. Kelvin now some of it was was pure like vintage Houston grit and gumption. I get that but it to me it felt like Kelvin out Coach Shire down the stretch and they got tight and there's a few stats here that I they might refresh overnight. But I believe Now Duke was 2 and 4 this season Games decided. Maybe you even talked about this on the post game show. GP I think 2 and 4 in games decided by 7 points or fewer this season. Duke was now 1 and 4. Let's see when it played a top 20 defense something like that or 1 and 3 now 1 and 3. Houston meantime is now 9 and 2 against top 20 defenses this season. It absolutely felt to me now the players got asked this. The ones that were in the locker room do kind of kept Khan and Cooper kept them sequestered from any more questioning in the locker room afterward because they kind of bled the clock there. So we didn't get more from them on this specifically. But to me it felt like Houston's Houstonness if you get what I'm saying. And Duke's lack of consistently playing teams at this level and tight games, I actually think it mattered and I think it affected some of what Shire was doing. From an approach there. What are your thoughts?
- [17:18]
Matt Norlander
I think it mattered. And Kelvin Sampson in his own words addressed it afterwards. He was talking to Tracy Wolfson. I'm not sure if you saw that but okay, so it was great. Kelvin said listen we were never down 20 and we weren't even playing well. So I'm just telling my team like we've been here before, we're not even playing well and we're not down 20. And if we can get this to a point, we're not there yet, but if we can get it to a point, we can put game pressure on them. And that's where he stopped his sentence, his thought. But I'll continue it. What I took from that is, and I don't think they can handle it, or at least I, I think they might not be able to handle it. They're younger than us and they're not, they haven't been through this stuff like we have. And, and, and if we put them in a situation where they feel like they are on the verge of maybe a collapse, they might just collapse. And there was a moment, and I'm not trying to get into anybody's head, but it, it felt like with a little more than two to go, they were trying to run the clock out. It felt like they, they were just trying to get it to zeros. And because there was a moment, it was me and Britt Stover and John Rothstein sitting together and Duke got up pretty good to the point where I, I actually said this out loud. Do you think Duke could win this game without scoring another point? Like are we there right now? Can Duke win this game without scoring another point? And then they end up losing the game by three in, in regulation after scoring more points. It was an awesome comeback, but aided by, you know, I, I've always believed this. Whether it's Memphis, Kansas in 08 or tonight, you can't have these types of comebacks without it also being a collapse on some level. The other team's got to contribute to it in some level and, and do contributed to it on some level. And you heard John in his postgame. I thought he was really good. I thought he was really good. I thought he handled it beautiful. Like I thought he handled it as well as you can handle it. As a young head coach who has been just eliminated from the NCAA tournament in horrific ways in back to back years, I thought he handled it well. But among the things he said to Tracy was, I don't think I helped my guys enough down the stretch. And I bet he's, I bet he feels that right now. And if you're looking for a bright spot, I think this is it. And I said this on TV tonight. We just watched John Shire do a really tough interview interview with Tracy Wolfson. You could see it in his face. You could hear it in his voice. He, he will talk to her again at the Final Four, I promise you. And they're gonna have a happy conversation at the Final Four someday. I would bet a lot of money on it, but it didn't happen on Saturday night.
- [19:54]
John Fanta
Yeah, that's good perspective. Yeah. I mean, John. John really does carry the job very well and does. It. Does a good job with it. And I think he would be willing to admit that there were some misfires there. You know, it's funny you mentioned about that on the Duke end. Now, having seen how this game played out, there were just a couple of possessions here. I specifically remember one where Sharp was coming up the floor. I want to say there's like a minute 15 left, and they're down seven at that at this point. And I'm thinking it's not over, but, like, go like, let's play with emergency. Right. And they just. They had it. So let's. Let's transition, I guess, to Houston here and try and keep the show moving so we don't run too late. Boys. Gotta still file. File a column over here. Just a few things on. On the Houston side. The fact that I'll just kind of roll them off and to take it where you want. The fact that they still won the game despite the super weird, technical, rightfully called against Tugler was. Was crazy. The fact that you've got the second most popular podcast. Not as popular as ours, trying to distract me while I'm two into the show here. They're done. See you later, number two. Thank you.
- [21:03]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, ask them. Ask them when they're getting a billboard in Times Square.
- [21:06]
John Fanta
Yeah. GP Wants to know when you're getting a billboard in Times Square. That's what I thought. Okay, thank you. So. So then we. We get Tuggler. We get crier with 26, and he was phenomenal. In fact, he had a couple of bad plays all night, and he was incredible. And.
- [21:25]
Matt Norlander
Hey, Rob Doster.
- [21:26]
John Fanta
He can't hear you, bud.
- [21:28]
Matt Norlander
And that's, like my favorite. Or one of my. That's like one of my. Oh, look who it is. Yeah, it's Paris.
- [21:36]
John Fanta
Yeah. Yeah, it's. Hey, Gary. Yeah, it's a live show.
- [21:38]
Matt Norlander
What's up with you? How are you? You've done this before.
- [21:40]
John Fanta
I. I did it on his show once before, so he's getting me back there. It's live podcasting. It's okay. It's okay. So you had cryer, who was 26 and incredible, and it gets a little bit overlooked in some of this to a certain extent, but Roberts, to hit the foul shots in that spot was Massive. Massive. And then he gets the hand up on flag Sharp. Had some huge buckets down the stretch. Just. This is just one of the more impressive wins on a final four stage.
- [22:12]
Gary Parish
That I can ever, ever, ever remember.
- [22:14]
John Fanta
Ever.
- [22:14]
Matt Norlander
It was. It was awesome. And I don't say that sometimes people get real weird when we talk about, oh, he thought Houston coming back was awesome. He must hate Duke. I mean, just stop it with all that stuff. Here's the truth. I've known Kelvin Sampson for a long time, and I've known John Shire for a long time, and I like both of them immensely. And as happy as I am for Kelvin, like, I don't want to get hyperbolic here, but, like, I feel sick for John. Absolutely sick. You know, you. You only get one shot at this with this team, and. And he was in a position to win the whole thing, and. Oh, he left you hanging.
- [22:48]
John Fanta
He left drinking Fanta left me hanging. Sorry. There we go, bud. I got you. Appreciate it. What's up, gp? He says hi.
- [22:57]
Matt Norlander
John Fanta. That's the legend. John.
- [22:59]
John Fanta
This is. This is about as live podcasting as it gets, by the way. So. It's all right.
- [23:03]
Matt Norlander
Had a nice night with Matt Norlander and John Fanta and my. And my beautiful mother at Lionel Richie.
- [23:09]
John Fanta
That is correct. We don't even have time to get into that, but that complet. Will Forte. Will Forte and I might be friends now, but let's keep it moving.
- [23:17]
Matt Norlander
Okay? So it was awesome to see Houston do what it did, to do it three hours away from its campus, to see Kelvin have that moment standing on the scores table, dancing in the locker room. And I, I. And I love that they did it the way they did it, because there was a moment with maybe about a minute left where they're down. I guess it's six at that point.
- [23:42]
John Fanta
Yeah. And I think six.
- [23:44]
Matt Norlander
And I think. I think a lot of coaches would have fouled there to try to stop the clock and extend the game. And he played it out, and they got a stop, and then they come down. I think they. I don't. It just. It looked like a very questionable decision in the moment to let it play out, as opposed to, you might want to get a foul here and stop the clock. But he knows his team. He knows his team. He knows his team better than all of us watching. He knows what they're capable of. He trusts them to go get a. He trusts them to go win the game. We don't have to extend this. We can get this done right here. He trusted his team to make big plays. And it was a, there's a big shot from Sharp, there's the missed three and then the put back dunk from Joe. It was just an awesome, awesome display. And now you watch this. And I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but I don't know that if most people understand this, the national championship game is about 50 times easier to get into than the national semifinals because you, you have two fan bases that want to go instead of four. And whenever you get one fan base close to the to the location, here's what's going to happen on Monday night, here's what's happened tonight and here's what's going to happen tomorrow. A bunch of Auburn fans and a bunch of Duke fans are going to throw final four tickets on StubHub and Seat Geek and wherever else you can put them. And guess who gonna eat them up. Houston fans. And they're gonna make that drive over on Monday afternoon. And that place is going to be a real home court advantage for the Cougars on Monday night, I assume. And it's just sort of interesting because they had to play the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 in Indianapolis where they were at a disadvantage from a crowd perspective and now one went away from a national title. They gonna have the biggest crowd on Monday night.
- [25:20]
John Fanta
All right, you're right. And we'll talk more about that on Sunday. I think the single craziest statistics thing about this game to me is this. Duke is going to wind up with the most efficient offense in a single season in Ken Palm history. It's going to beat the Wisconsin 2015 team that also did not win a national championship. So you're talking about a team that within the context of the season was better at scoring than any other team in any other context of any other season. Duke had two baskets in the final 12 plus minutes. It only had, I think it had flag hit one with like 1031 to go and they only had one field goal after that. And Houston shut. Houston shut him down. It's unreal what Houston did to turn off Duke's water and win this game. That's the biggest among three dozen takeaways. It's the fact that they were able to do that and really shrink Duke down to a size that didn't even know and to expose it's an experience and to make Duke playoff balance for more than 25 of the game in a way they just had not felt the entire season. Nothing like this Houston team, man, super, super, super impressive. It's a tough end for Duke. You got to figure that starting five is all done at the school. They rebuild, they start over. But Shire's still going to be there. He's the one that's going to carry this with him next season and beyond. And yes, the nature of this loss will stick with him until, at minimum, he finds himself coaching on a Monday night in April.
- [26:52]
Matt Norlander
I know the final minute of a game is wildly different than the opening minute or even the opening eight minutes of a game, but I did, like what I'm about to tell you is true. It took Houston 8 minutes and 9 seconds to score 9 points in this game to get to 9. It was 11:51 when they got to 9. And then in the final minute, they scored 9 points in the final 33 seconds.
- [27:19]
John Fanta
I love that stat. Say, hold on. Literally say that for me again, because I'm putting it in the column.
- [27:24]
Matt Norlander
Okay, it is. And you don't, don't, don't credit. Don't screw your column up with a I. Credit ion. Just keep it yourself. It took up 8 minutes and 9 seconds to get to 9 points in the game, and then they scored 9 in the final 33 to complete a 90 run to win the game in regulation.
- [27:42]
John Fanta
That's just that.
- [27:43]
Matt Norlander
That's what they call a nugget.
- [27:45]
John Fanta
That's a hell of a nugget. That's a hell of a nugget right there. And that's how you. That's how you move on to Monday night, man. Just. Just awesome, awesome stuff. You want to talk gators?
- [27:54]
Matt Norlander
Yeah. Let's get to the other national semifinal. We'll do that next. First, though, let's get a word from our partners.
- [28:01]
John Fanta
Okay. Let's talk about clothes that feel just right.
- [28:05]
Gary Parish
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- [29:08]
Travis Matthew
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- [31:11]
Matt Norlander
Final score Florida 79, Auburn 73 guess who was the star. Yep, Walter Clayton Jr. Took 18 shots, made 11 of them, finished with 34 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists in 35 minutes. As you know by now probably he got 30 in an Elite Eight win over Texas. Which means Walter Clayton Jr. A zero star recruit coming out of high school who started his college career at Iona, is now the first player to score at least 30 points in back to back elite eight games and a national semifinal since a fellow named Larry Bird did it back in 1979. So Florida is in the national title game for the third time this century. The previous three trips belong to Billy Donovan. This one belongs to Todd Gold Norlander. Please provide your thoughts on Florida over Auburn because in some ways that was also a come from behind victory.
- [32:00]
John Fanta
It was a come from behind victory. It was the first time this season Auburn led by five plus points at halftime and blew it and blew the game. They had been up by five or more at halftime 25 times before this season. They had won all of those games. Florida had not been faced with a halftime deficit in more than a month. It comes back, it gets it done. Pretty interesting people that were in the house to watch Walter Clayton do his thing tonight. One Rick Patino. I got a quote from him that's in my column that honestly feels like it was filed seven hours ago at this point. Obviously Patino coached him at Iona. Also in the building tonight, Billy Donovan. And the last time Florida got to a national title game, Billy Donovan was the coach. So that is fitting. Honored with the hall of Fame. Also honored with the hall of Fame, Carmelo Anthony. How does he play into this tonight? Walter Clayton Jr. Became the first player to get at least 30 in a semi final national semifinal since none other than Carmelo Anthony. And this might be the first semi final that Carmelo has been in the building for since he played for Syracuse. So that's kind of a wild coincidence there. How about the fact that Cooper Flag and Janai Broomer the national player of the year race for five months. Neither of them makes the title game but the clear cut third best player in the country is going to play on Monday night. That's, that's kind of cool for him and he's been tremendous. He's also one of only five players to ever go for 30 and back to back games this deep into the tournament. Joining Bird, but also like Wilt Chamberlain's on that list, Jerry west is on that list. Like it's a, it's ridiculous what he was able to do. And you know, the column that I wrote in part was about, hey, listen, for the entire season it was a two man race and fairly so. But, but Clayton by nature of doing what he's done here has, has put his name, if not entirely on a level like in that same grouping. He was a unanimous first team All American here at CBS Sports. And what he did and how he took over 20 points in the second half, we'll get to Auburn in just a second. Mighty impressive. It wasn't all him. I think Elijah Martin might have tilted the axis of the planet with his dunk in the second half, which was the dunk of the season as far as I'm concerned. And we've had some awesome ones. Grant Nelson, I see you. I know, I know, I know. But that was incredible. And that came after he skied for one, like what, four or five minutes in real time before that. Mighty, mighty, mighty impressive, by the way. So I'm sitting here at my press seat and I have picked against Florida on the Sweet 16. I had Maryland, I picked against him the Elite Eight. I had Texas Tech and I picked against him here. I had Auburn. And so I interviewed golden on HQ after. And he said this on hq, which is true. I had not revealed this because it wasn't my. He has texted me the screen grab of Florida's final scores after these, after this. And, and one of them has come within, like, literally like I felt, I think it was the Texas Tech one. Like, it must have come within two minutes of him finishing his press conference. So he's, he does the interview right here and I'm like typing and I'm right here and I hear Norlander, Norlander pick against us again. You better be picking against. He's screaming it at me to the point where I thought it was going to be picked up on the broadcast here. Let her, let her, fellas. 60 acre was out of here and it was.
- [35:04]
Matt Norlander
How many of them are there?
- [35:06]
John Fanta
We run a three men. They, they've got, they've got a militia over there. What do you want from me? I know, I know, but it was.
- [35:15]
Matt Norlander
You ever imagine me trying to talk with that many people? I go crazy.
- [35:18]
John Fanta
Forget about it. So Todd Golden, I mean gp when I tell you he was yelling it at me like in a good, like in a good natured way. But like I'm sitting right, like I'm Right. You can't really tell, but, like, right. Like, I'm right next to. That's Iron Eagle. Great. That's their spot right there. So I'm right next to the broadcast crew. So I'm right here. And he's. He's screaming at me. I'm like, I'll pick. I'm. We'll preview tomorrow. I'm going to. I'm going to abide by his wishes. I'm picking Houston to beat Florida. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it again, and I will have to eat it. But I thought Tony Bennett practically running me over in the Elite Eight to get to his father was the weirdest thing that ever happened to me on the court, technically, at a game. Golden. Just screaming at the top of his lungs for me to pick against him again. And there's, like, so many people around.
- [36:06]
Matt Norlander
When he's doing this.
- [36:06]
Travis Matthew
It was just.
- [36:07]
John Fanta
He was unhinged in a good way. And then he was a good sport to come on HQ afterward. But congrats to Florida, the Gators fans, for getting here. You were the fourth one seed overall. From a resume standpoint, you had a very compelling case to be even higher. Whatever. You had the toughest region. You got through it. Clayton's incredible. Elijah Martin has a chance to win a national championship after missing that chance at FAU again. We'll get to Auburn in just a second. But I was just. Yeah, I was in awe of how they were able to change everything and shut down. Shut down broom entirely, who was clearly bothered, clearly an issue, and. And restricted him and held him back. And then Florida's bigs got their act together and they took it. They took it away. So it's your turn to talk here. Your thoughts on what went down in the early tip.
- [36:48]
Matt Norlander
First, I just love that story about Todd. I don't. I like him having fun with this. I like him texting you that stuff. I much prefer it to the coaches who say, I didn't see anything. I didn't read anything. I didn't hear that. I don't know every one of these. Not every one of these guys. There are guys who really don't hear and see anything. But most of them, when you hear them say that they're not telling the truth. And I like that. Ty's like, I'm watching you guys pick against me all the time. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. We'll keep making you look wrong. All right, That's. I love it. Fans do the same thing, too. And it's fine, like, whatever. I can ignore that. Just like I can ignore anything else. But I think sometimes fans read way more into it than there is. It's like, oh, you picked against Florida again. Yeah, you know, I, there's two teams in front of me. I, I picked the wrong one. Most people aren't great at picking games. If we, Trust me, if I ever got great at picking games, I would quit podcasting in the middle of the night and just, just bet all day long and we'd be great. Just pick a win. You just, hey, there's two teams. Pick one. Okay. And then sometimes you're wrong. It doesn't mean you don't think Florida is awesome. Florida is what I think, like 17 and 1 in their past 18 games now.
- [38:00]
John Fanta
Yes.
- [38:00]
Matt Norlander
11. 11 game winning streak.
- [38:02]
John Fanta
Yes.
- [38:03]
Matt Norlander
Coming out of the toughest conference in the history of college basketball. Anybody trying to tell you Florida isn't anything but awesome is crazy. They're awesome. I've said it all week long. There is no combination of outcomes that would be surprising to me. Any of these four teams were capable of winning the national championship, Florida included. And if you say that about Florida, you are publicly acknowledging you think they can beat Auburn and whoever else they have to play on Monday night. So Florida is awesome. But anytime you are presented with the game, you have to pick it. And you know somebody's always going to be on the wrong side of that. And what I gather, what I, what I've learned is that fans tend to focus on exactly what Florida fans are focusing on right now. I would just say, please don't take it personally. Your team is awesome. But you know, Norlanders already picked Houston on Monday night. And if you want a spoiler alert, I probably will too.
- [38:53]
John Fanta
Okay, fair enough. But you do have, you have time to change it. I took Houston on selection Sunday night and I'm not going to, I'm not going to swap from that. So we'll see if that comes to be before we get to Auburn. You know, Clayton's performance to me, and I'm. It's, it's way too late. I know you haven't thought about it, but it ranks in the past 15 to 20 years, it ranks on a shortish list. And I'm not going to say that's like three names deep or five names deep, but what he did here to beat a one seed down eight at the break and to lift this team, it was mostly him. Elijah Martin had 17. Thomas Hauck had a couple of really good plays. He had a Sick block. He had finished with 12 and seven boards like how caught himself a knight. Chinulou and Will Richard were not especially loud overall though Chinula was, was good on the boards there. But the Clayton thing was, was really cool for him. You know an example and there's plenty of them, I get all that. But whereas on the Houston side, yeah you've got a couple transfers but you know, a lot of it's homegrown so to speak. Clayton comes by way of Iona and you know he was on the team that got knocked out of the tournament by UConn a couple years ago. And I remember hearing about just like how he did he in that moment. Like he still didn't feel like he was enough. Like he had just been as good as he needed to be. And for him now to get this attached to his reputation forever no matter what happens on Monday night is a pretty awesome thing. I mean he was just. He is a stud and he just hits so many tough. It's just not how these scores or that he scores. It is how he does it. And it just has a knack for hitting big bucket after big bucket. So I was really impressed by him. I'm sure you agree. Let's talk Auburn.
- [40:41]
Matt Norlander
Let me say one thing on that and I'll be, I'll be real quick what it reminded me of. And let me start by saying I am not comparing these two players in any way other than in the way I'm specifically doing it. You know what it reminded me of? 2008 Steph Curry bombs on Georgetown ends the great Roy Hibberts college career. And then you get this whole week of a build up of like my God, Steph Curry incredible shot maker. Oh wow. Did you see that? Let's talk about this guy. Why haven't we been talking about this guy non stop all season long and there's a big build up to this moment. And then Wisconsin, he delivered again. Just. Just did it again. Wow. No let down, just go that different places in the bracket but the same kind of thing. Walter Clayton didn't really become Walter Clayton third best player in the sport until about a week and a half ago. You know it took a while to. That was a consensus opinion and you get all of this attention, more attention than you've ever received in your whole life. How are you going to respond? Can you do it again, buddy? He delivered even better. He was awesome. And I was about to say something stupid so I'll just stop. I was about to say if you, if you're wondering How Florida has a chance. Florida has a chance. Period. All right? Period. Walter Clayton does not have to be a superstar for Florida to have a chance against Houston. But what gives them the best chance is they got a guy who can take tough shots and make them. And, and you know, he's, he's, he's, he's been incredible. He's having a, an all time run by a guard in this NCAA tournament. And particularly when you, you know, bring up the context of his college career, where he started, where he was coming out of high school. This is pretty remarkable stuff.
- [42:23]
John Fanta
Auburn Tigers finished the season 32 and six. This was a team that was at one point, 27 and two went on to go five and what, five and four down the stretch over the final nine games. And so the stat we mentioned on Selection Sunday remains true. There still has never been a team to lose at least three of its final four games heading into the tournament and go on to win the NCB championship. Auburn had lost three or four heading into Selection Sunday. Small picture, big picture. GP Right back to you. What do you make of what you saw on from Auburn on Saturday night and what do you make of the Tigers overall this season? This was a team that through the first three months was pretty definitively the best team in college basketball. It gets a one seat, it makes a final Four, but it gives up a lead at halftime and winds up losing.
- [43:11]
Gary Parish
79, 73.
- [43:13]
Matt Norlander
I think they had a great season and then I think their best player got hurt. I think that's what happened. I think they had a great season and their best player got hurt. And I know they lost three or four heading into the NCAA tournament. But as we've talked about a million times, I think that was more than anything a byproduct of they took their foot off the gas. They wrapped up everything they needed to wrap up. Everybody was telling them they've wrapped up everything they needed to wrap up. They were already outright SEC champs, already in a position to get the number one overall seed. I think they took their foot off the gas and then they had to go to Texas A and M and they got popped and then they had to come home and play Alabama and then they got gotten overtime and then they had to go play Tennessee and they just, they played three, four good teams really when you count Ole Miss and they took their foot off the gas and just doing that a little bit in that league was enough to make you start losing games. But let's not ever forget they did bounce back and be Creighton and then beat the Big Ten tournament champs. And then beat the outright Big Ten champs. And while they were beating the outright Big Ten champs, Jennai Broom had an elbow injury. And they talked all week about how he's fine and he's good and he wasn't. He just wasn't. He. He. He got tired and he didn't look comfortable. There was, I think, the Elijah Martin dunk. That was a loose ball situation.
- [44:23]
John Fanta
Yes.
- [44:24]
Matt Norlander
And he looked slow to get there.
- [44:26]
John Fanta
Yes.
- [44:26]
Matt Norlander
And uncomfortable reaching for it. And it led to a transition dunk. And that was a moment. And not the first. That was like maybe the last, but it was a moment where it was like, he's not okay. He's not okay. He got worn down and he was never comfortable. And he. He did pretty much nothing in the second half.
- [44:44]
John Fanta
Yeah, he finished with 15 points, 6 of 14 from the field, had seven rebounds. I mean, he had a couple of his. Like, he's a certain style about him, certain rhythm, and he got a couple of those kind of signature broom buckets. But I was on the. It was on this end in the first half. I want to say it was in the first, like four minutes. He got. He took like a weird. Like an aggressive cut. It might have been Hauk. And he grimaced immediately.
- [45:09]
Matt Norlander
Right.
- [45:09]
John Fanta
And I was like, oh, just like that. That quickly. It was a problem. Even if he was fully healthy, it's conceivable Florida would have still won for sure. I want to give the Gators credit for that. Chad Baker. Mazaro finishes with 18. He had four triples, had himself a nice game. Miles Kelly had a couple of good buckets overall. Just. Florida just had. Florida was. Was able to peel off another big run. This is a team that has been now against Yukon, against Texas Tech, and against Auburn. It has, you know, lived with a little more drama than other teams and nothing wrong with that. Houston had its fair doses of drama tonight as well, but Auburn needed broom at 100 or pretty close to it. And frankly, I don't think he was even above 75 in this game. They did downplay it going into the week. I understand why they did that. Hell, they might have been hopeful that he was going to put on a superman level performance. That was just not going to happen at all. He was shut down. And the fact that he was ineffective in the second half really spelled doom for Auburn more than anything else. They had a couple of moments where it's like, okay, maybe still, maybe they've got a chance, the right bucket here. But frankly, there was just Clayton got him time and time again. Then as I mentioned before, Halk had a couple of good plays. But Auburn fans, one hell of a season you've had. You've seen your program make the final four two times since 2019 thanks to Bruce Pearl. I know you get to the stage, you get even hungrier to finally, you know, win a national championship. Hell, maybe that could still happen under Pearl. But big picture, yeah, this is bitter. Maybe, maybe there's some tiny, tiny bit of solace. Like if you're gonna get knocked out, it's against a fellow SEC team. We'll see if they can go out and finish the job for the conference on Monday night or not. But overall, yeah, Auburn, Auburn was a team that showed us its best in the first two, three months of the season. And it would look good in the tournament up until now, don't get me wrong, but ultimately, you know, everyone but one's got to go down and to be one of the last four standing in an all four, one seed Final Four. Something to be proud of. And frankly, I don't look at it this way, but I, I, you and I both know this is the case. Like Auburn had the earlier game. It's not Duke. Duke lost in dramatic fashion and from a broad coverage perspective like Auburn's and nor should it. It's just going to take no slack for losing this game. Like all the attention is going to be how Houston pulled it off and how Duke blew it. Auburn's going to be, they had an awesome season. They won the sec, they were one seed and they lost the Florida in competitive game and that's it. So there's, there's no egg on, on the collective face of Tiger Nation.
- [47:35]
Matt Norlander
So to speaker, in my opinion, not, not at all. Because whether, and you, you had it right earlier when you said even if Jabrai Broom's healthy, Florida could have beaten them. I mean, Janai Broom was healthy in February in Florida beat them. So of course. But if you're Bruce Pearl or Jani Broome or anybody connected to that Auburn program, whether it's true or not, you can always say to yourself, man, if Janai didn't hurt his elbow, we'd have been fine, man, you know, man, we just got bad luck. Oh, that was too, that was so unfortunate. You always got that to, to make you feel better. The Duke doesn't have that. Duke is just like, man, we were up, we were up nine points with two minutes to go and we just, it got away from us. So absolutely, I promise you neither John Shire nor Bruce Pearl are happy tonight, but one of them is wearing this in an entirely different way than the other one I would assume.
- [48:29]
John Fanta
I I, I agree with you entirely. Okay, we got do we have one more segment before we get out of here by the way?
- [48:36]
Matt Norlander
One more segment to go. It's going to be a shorter than normal version of the final four and one. And I mean about the shortest version of a final four and one you can do. It's going to be one game. We'll do it next versus going to work from our part, everybody needs flip.
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- [49:36]
Isaac Trotter
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- [50:46]
Matt Norlander
In one, presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. You know what, Norlander? Let's do this. Let's pick the title game of the Women's NCAA tournament because it should be a classic. Awesome on paper. Yukon against South Carolina inside Dwight Gooden arena in Tampa, Florida. Yukon minus six and a half. How you going to act?
- [51:08]
John Fanta
I think this is a pod first, but, but I'm. Man. Well, I hope to be watching this game with you. Our great, amazing colleague Dennis Dodd is retiring after this Final Four. We're going to go out to dinner with him on Sunday. And I guess this game is gonna be played earlier in the, in the afternoon. So I don't, I don't know how this is gonna work out now that, now that I'm saying this out loud to figure out the Sunday plans.
- [51:29]
Matt Norlander
Let me, let me help everybody here. Tip is at 3:00pm Eastern.
- [51:32]
John Fanta
Yeah, because they put on ABC, right? They put on network that way.
- [51:35]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, it's on ABC, 2:00 Central. So I will be doing a television.
- [51:39]
John Fanta
Show and I will be back here for media availability. Yes.
- [51:43]
Matt Norlander
All right. All right. So the truth is, neither one of us are probably going to watch this, but we would like to. We would like to.
- [51:48]
John Fanta
We just, I can catch some of it. Listen, you're not. I, I, I, I. So, so what was the number?
- [51:58]
Matt Norlander
Yukon minus six and a half.
- [51:59]
John Fanta
And that's a big number. I'm. I know where I live. Okay. I'm not picking against Gino Oriema and the Huskies. Six and a half is big, though. So how about this? I will go Yukon to win, but Don Staley and her Gamecocks, they, they cover the number and we get an awesome women's final.
- [52:16]
Matt Norlander
That's what I'm rooting for. Not necessarily UConn to win, but for South Carolina to at least cover that number and we get an awesome, compelling women's national championship game. So, yeah, I'll take Dawn Staley and the points. I don't think you can give a goat like Don Staley six and a half points. But we will see on Sunday afternoon, 2:00 Central. You ready to get back to your column?
- [52:40]
John Fanta
I am. I'm literally the last person here on press row. No doubt people are getting, getting to work back there in the back area. How about this? I'm gonna shouts right now. Okay.
- [52:48]
Matt Norlander
All right.
- [52:48]
John Fanta
I'm gonna shout out Dennis Dodd, who's done a great job. Isaac Trotter here on site. Kyle Boone back at home base. You're doing an awesome job. David Cobb, Audie Joseph, Trey Scott. We've had an army here that's doing a great job and I can't wait for Monday night.
- [53:02]
Matt Norlander
If you don't say Marcus Nelson, hold.
- [53:04]
John Fanta
On, I'm going to say. I'm saying Marcus. Marcus is, is the king among all over all of them. I was about to say if I Marcus Nelson does an incredible job with us. I miss you in the buildings on nights like this. I know you got to do TV stuff, but man, it is, it is something to be. It's just this huge cavernous space and, and the way the roars cascade down from over there and on the floor level and up on the second level, it's just, it's something new experience. But, but I know you're making TV magic over there and I'm gonna stop rambling because I still have to file a column. I'd like to get some sleep before I get back here. We will have another show on Sunday. Don't ask me when we're recording it because I have no idea when this is getting done. But I know we have to do a show on Sunday. So at some point on Sunday, we will look ahead to Monday's title game.
- [53:47]
Matt Norlander
Can't wait. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle's a legend. Huck Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching Listening to the I Own College Basketball podcast. You're not subscribed. Please go subscribe anyway. Subscribe to podcast. Apple Spotify. More of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So please do that. We're going to talk to you again real soon on Sunday. Till then, take care.
- [54:16]
Marcus Nelson
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