← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
Milos Uzan pivots back to Houston; Pop Isaacs defects to A&M: K-State surprisingly lands PJ Haggerty
00:53:33
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- [00:00]
Gary Parish
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- [01:20]
Matt Norlander
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- [03:30]
Gary Parish
Thanks to the note? Yeah, 29 looking good. I'll take it. Every single time. No, it was a good little weekend there. These are directly correlated, although it is, it is interesting in this regard. So I was talking to one of my, one of my younger brothers this morning and, and we were talking about some other, some other stuff here. Got a, got a youngest bro who's getting married later this year. So we were just going over, we were going over some bachelor party stuff, but as we were talking about a lot of that stuff, he, I told him I was prepping for the podcast and all that he follows college hoops, but he's not at this off season. He's not going day to day on or anything like that. But he, he asked a very, it's, it's sometimes funny like he has to very basic question which we, I might not have thought about otherwise. But he, he goes, why, why did Pop Isaacs transfer? Like, why did he leave? Why? He because his question was this. He's like why would you, he's like, I, I know he probably got a lot more money but like why would you leave on a likely Final Four national championship contender to go play Texas A M where he has no shot at winning the national title? Like, why would you do that? Like he was going to be on a roster that was going to be on a relevant top five team. And it is a good big picture. But these are directly correlated. And the answer obviously is not just money, but it was also role. But it is interesting and pop Isaacs is free to do whatever the hell he wants. Like he could wind up going to Texas A and M and turning into a first team All American and boosting his NBA stock at a year from now, even if you know the Aggies have no shot at winning a national championship or making a Final four run. Maybe personally for him this will wind up being the best thing possible. But it is interesting in a vacuum GP to just look at what happened here. Milas Suzanne decided to come back to Houston and we can get to that in just a second. But the, the, the pure nature of that and this was, this was told to me two and a half, three weeks ago where if USAM was going to come back, it would probably force the issue with Isaacs and it was be it would be unlikely for both of them to remain on the roster together. Lo and behold that that did wind up being the case there. But I don't know is an interesting way of looking at it and at least, at least I was, I was interested by it. You know, you give up, you give up playing for Kelvin Sampson for what's been statistically the best program over the past four or five years in terms of metrics, rankings, Ken Palm and all that kind of stuff. UConn's got the two championships, but Houston's been those consistently at the top. And yet Isaac's is gonna, is gonna bypass that. You know, I don't know if I know it doesn't bother you in the slice, but what about it from that angle though? Just he, he committed to Houston and by nature of someone else's decision decides, ah, you know what, I'm out of here. I'm going to stay in state, jump conferences and head over to the sec.
- [06:05]
Matt Norlander
All of this stuff is still so new that I think it's tough for a lot of us to wrap our heads around it and make sense of it. But when you just start comparing it and contrasting it to other professional sports and that's what this is now more or less. This is like the type of thing that happens all the time, you know, like MLB free agents will leave World Series contenders to go to lesser teams for more money and a bigger role. It happens in the NBA, it happens in the NFL. And I'm not surprised that it's happening in college basketball. It's happening in college football. This is sports. When you start allowing movement and putting what amounts to huge contracts on the table, then you're going to see people making decisions for reasons other than where is the best place I could win a national championship. We'll get to another example of this, you know, later on as it pertains to PJ Hagerty. He clearly didn't pick a place where he could best compete for a national title in his fourth year of college basketball. So this is just, it's all new and unusual but I do think largely it's not good going to be that uncommon going forward. We're going to see decisions like this pretty regularly.
- [07:32]
Gary Parish
I would agreed. Yeah and we get that a lot across sports. But this one was interesting just in the regard of Isaacs. Clearly if he had stayed on the roster was going to be part like I would even, I would even argue like not knowing how much he was set to make at Houston versus how much he set to make at Texas A and M. And we can even get to a little more A and M here before we get to the break. But if he had stayed on the roster, I think Houston would have been a near universal preseason number one team by having both of those players in addition to keeping Jojo Tugler, Emmanuel sharp, they've got a great freshman class coming in and instead he said, nope, I'm gonna go do what's best for me. All more power to him and if anything it makes A M even more interesting and, and broadly speaking, that's intriguing on its own. Let's talk Yuzan, though he wanted to stay in the M, here's what I understand. With everything with us in was pretty determined in wanting to stay in the NBA draft as obviously most players are that declare for the draft. But there is this space where there are guys who declare and they do have this area where it's okay, I come back, be a really important, really, really good college player, make plenty of money or I can go to the NBA draft and maybe I could get picked anywhere between say, you know, 30 and 45 or so to speak. What I was told a month ago at this point was Yuzan was dead set determined to stay in the draft. If he could get assurances that he could go in the top 40. That didn't happen. His combine was spotty. And from what I understand he also had, you know, proper, proper guidance in this regard. You know, he stands to. I would, I would ask. This is an estimation. I don't have this sourced here. I would estimate that Miles Usain by coming back to college can stand to make north of $3 million at least next season and to be the starting lead guard on a national championship contender on a team that just went to the title game and make a lot of money and potentially, you know, find yourself in the same spot, if not a little bit better next season. Use that might have made the decision harder on himself than it needed to be. But this is obviously a boon. He was expected to stay in the draft because of what was, you know, just discussed to be out there like he wanted to stay in. Kind of like RJ Lewis is another one of these players who wants to be out of college. He wants to go pursue his NBA dream. Whether or not that is going to happen, we'll see as we do this. Oh, by the way, the draft deadline for college players is tomorrow, Wednesday night at 11:59pm Eastern. So we've got a few names here of guys that still need to decide between now and then. Most notably to Hod Pettiford still waiting on that. He's he wants a first round guarantee and if he does get that, he's gone. If not decent chance he can come back to Auburn, but we wait and see on that. Jaxel Lindenberg, Leninborg sounds like he's coming back to Michigan, but we wait on official word there. RJ Lewis I have no idea. Jameer Watkins feels 50 50. I think Alex Condon wants back up at Florida. Ortega away has apparently gotten some really, really good feedback in the past, you know, four or five days. I previously thought that he was almost a guarantee to come back to Kentucky. I would still pick that he comes back to Kentucky, but apparently what he's gotten back recently has been good on that end. So we wait and see on that. A Duthero leaning towards being gone, but we wait on official word there. I think if he came back to Arkansas that would be massive and I think that runs the gamut of notable players for Yuzan and Houston. This to me firms up the Cougars preseason top three status. I think you've got them number one. Plenty of people would you get that sharp Cugler? That's big time. Last season Usan averaged 11.4 points, 4.2 assists. He was a 43 shooter from 3 point range. Those numbers should all improve 3 point shooting. Maybe asking them to get better than 40% might be asking a bit too much. But yeah, that's big time because there's guys that most people listening to this pod aren't too too aware of. But Chris Cenac, Isaiah Harwell these guys are going to step in and be immediately impactful players. Sampson's got a real squad here and this is a good, good boost. A month ago, I don't think that Houston staff was banking on us and returning ready and prepared for it if necessary. And lo and behold, the feedback wasn't quite what they wanted. Us and will make himself a nice little bag here starting next season. And Houston will be a bona fide national title contender yet again.
- [11:37]
Matt Norlander
I have always had use and projected back to Houston since version one of the top 25 and one. So this is a big headline, but it's not a surprising one. It's a little bit like the Carter Knox headline from Memorial Day weekend. Like, I saw a couple of tweets and it's like big news. And I'm like, I guess. But like, I never assumed anything other than this.
- [12:00]
Gary Parish
He's back at Arkansas, if you're just checking in, of course.
- [12:04]
Matt Norlander
So with you, Zan, I always had him on this roster. And if I. I've got the order correct in my head, if I remember it right, I had Houston number one in version one of the top 25 and one with an expected backcourt of Milo Suzanne, Terence Arsenault and Emmanuel Sharp. Then they add the commitment of Pop Isaacs and it's like, okay, if you're number one without Papa Isaac, you're going to be number one with Pop Isaacs. But, and we talked about this on the pod, it sure seems like one of these guards is going to get out of there. Whether it's USAN or Arsenal, these four guards are not going to start the season on Houston's roster. Who's out? Then? Arsenal announces he's in the transfer portal. Okay, that, that, that solves that part of that. So now you've got a projected backcourt of Usan Isaacs and Sharp. Buddy, that's still number one. That's where we'd been setting up until this morning. Now, Popeye goes to Texas A and M. Who slides in there? Is that a Mercy Miller thing? But suddenly I do think I have to at least take a long look, a real look at whether to keep Houston at number one. And if I move them, I believe it would be the first time I've moved them from number one all off season. But that's a clear down. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, push back if you want. That's a obvious downgrade in roster to lose Pop Isaacs and Terence Arsenault from what was at least at one point this off Season a projected roster again for.
- [13:41]
Gary Parish
In that kind of framing. Yes. Now, again, you had USAN always coming back, which wound up being true. I think Houston staff, I think, was prepped for that not to be the case. And now here it is. It is the case. If you want to adjust, you can. It won't surprise me if Houston winds up as the best team or they've been number two at Ken Palma four years running here, which. So maybe, you know what? GP just slot him in at number two and just set it. Forget it. And there. And there you go on all that.
- [14:07]
Matt Norlander
It's easy to leave them at number one because all you got to do is just stand up and say, oh, yeah, I'm an idiot. I believe in Kelvin Sampson and Houston. Oh, sure, I guess that makes me dumb. You just stand on. You just stand on. It's Kelvin Sampson in Houston. Relax. They're all. They're always great. They'll be great again. So it's easy to do. But if I do adjust to stay intellectually consistent, it would require me to move St. John's to number one. Because I have St. John's number two right now. That's what it would require me to do, to move St. John's to number one. Anything. If I were to do anything other than that, without more roster movement around notable teams today, I would be manipulating my own rankings for reasons that I not comfortable with. So whether I'm right or wrong, I've got to be consistent. And if I drop Houston, St. John's has to be number one. How would you handle that? St. John's or Houston number one right now, maybe.
- [15:04]
Gary Parish
Give it. Give it 12 hours. See what happens here in game four, the next Pacer series. Knicks fans might need the most. They might. They might need to. They were able to rally and, and, and salvage going down 3. 0. But if, if Indiana gets done tonight, the, The Knicks fans who double as Johnny's fans, they might. They might need the morale boost there. I would. Between those two right now, me here last week of May, I would lean Houston. I would. But I, I get what you're. I get what you're saying on that.
- [15:40]
Matt Norlander
If we just drafted players, if I threw every Houston player and every St. John's player into a draft and we picked teams who. Who would have the most players pick first.
- [15:52]
Gary Parish
I don't know, man. Like usan's got a chance to follow in the mold here of what's, of what's happened with the Cougars over the past five, six seasons. Like when you to just to your general question there, like you might not think you would take USAN first, second, maybe not third, but LJ Crier, all American level guard. Prior to that we had, we had Sasser, right. What he was able to do. We also had Jamal Shed. Like USAN to me fits the. Specifically because of his defensive capabilities. He fits in that mold like he should if he plays to what he's capable of. And Houston's going to be that good, you know, second team, third team, all of it, maybe even first team All American. But he should be that kind of player. I, I understand what you're asking. Like Jojo Tugler might be the best defender in the sport next season. So I'm just kind of talking through as you laid out for me. I would, I would lean Houston, but. Don't let me stop you.
- [16:54]
Matt Norlander
No, I mean it. Maybe I'm not even arguing. I'm just sort of wondering out loud. And my questions wouldn't be about using. I think he has been great and will be great. It's just when you start going that roster, I think you hit some spots where you've got some question marks with the Houston roster in terms of just talent that, that Maybe I think St. John's roster is more talented than Houston's roster. But obviously you could probably say that about a bunch of rosters relative to Houston's rosters in recent years. And it ultimately doesn't matter because there's a culture in place, a program that's running an extremely high level. Kelvin's fingerprints are all over it. And every like literally every year they lose an All American guard, they just replace them with another all American guard.
- [17:37]
Gary Parish
Yeah. And. But you know what, you say that with talent now this is going to be youth, don't get me wrong. But Houston's got the second ranked class coming in in the sport next season. I mentioned CDAC. He's a, he's a rangy 610 power forward. Isaiah Harwell's a six six wing, ranked 16th in the class, CNACs seventh overall. Kingston Flemings is the 20th ranked player in the class. He's six, three off the bench guard you would think. And then they've got a play name. Bryce Jackson will probably be fighting for minutes overall but they've got a really like, they've probably got their most loaded freshman class ever in addition to the returning pieces that they have there ton to be said for that. A good day for Houston unquestionably. And I'm always interested not to get too into like, you know, what they'll be overall from a. From a gameplay perspective. But this Houston team last season that you know made it to the final game fell by two to Florida. The national title game. Best three point shooting team that Sampson's had. Can they be close to that again next season? If they can and they've got the returning pieces and that talent's going to be good at the freshman level. Like, yeah, quite clearly they will be in the conversation. We'll. And honestly, we'll probably get to points where they'll Occupy the number one ranking in the AP top 25.
- [18:50]
Matt Norlander
Everything you just said is true. I would point out that heralded freshman class has never been less important than it is true.
- [18:58]
Gary Parish
I know, but I'm fascinated to see what Kelvin Sampson does with a heralded freshman class. It might really. It really might get what you're getting at gp. It might be even more reinforced. Although Scenic is going to get ton of run. Like there's just no, there's no barring knock on wood injury. Like he's going to get plenty of play and should be an impactful player and a one and done kind of guy. But I hear what you're saying.
- [19:17]
Matt Norlander
Yeah, I like this is not to get off track, but of course we're going to get off track. This is like something that I. I don't even reference. I don't think I reference recruiting classes like rankings too much anymore because I don't think they're done the right way. Like. Like saying this is the best recruiting class in the country based on nothing but what high school graduates are coming in just isn't. That's not true. That's not the best work. Like who has the best recruiting class in the country right now according to the recruiting rankings?
- [19:47]
Gary Parish
I'm gonna check it right now. Hold on. Let me see, let me see. Houston's number two. Duke. So it's Duke, Houston, Arizona, Yukon. Yeah, go ahead.
- [19:55]
Matt Norlander
Okay. You ready for this? What that suggests is that Duke has the best recruiting class in the country. Do you believe that? Do you think Duke's got. Duke's got the best incoming players in the country?
- [20:04]
Gary Parish
Yes, I do.
- [20:05]
Matt Norlander
You do?
- [20:06]
Gary Parish
Like. Well, the best freshman players.
- [20:08]
Matt Norlander
But that's not what this means anymore. Like, that doesn't.
- [20:12]
Gary Parish
Okay.
- [20:13]
Matt Norlander
Recruiting class, your recruiting class is not.
- [20:15]
Gary Parish
Just recruiting is now everything I got. You, I got.
- [20:18]
Matt Norlander
Okay, so when people say Duke has.
- [20:19]
Gary Parish
The best, change the terminology. I got it.
- [20:21]
Matt Norlander
Yes, you should. Yes, we should as a company, change the terminology. Not to. Not to go above my pay grade. But. But it doesn't make any sense anymore to say Duke's got the best recruiting class in the country. No they don't. They have the top ranked freshman class in the country, but it's not the best recruiting class in the country. Like St. John's might have the best recruiting class in the country.
- [20:41]
Gary Parish
Well, it really wind up my it might be Duke though. The boozers they just oh by the way, Duke updates here since we last podcast The Sebastian Wilkins four star top 50 player committed and then Dame Sar who we told you like a week and a half ago. Dame Sar who's Now this like 67 super athletic going from Italy. He's also, he's also part of the recruiting class. So but we'll I'm just devil's advocate gp. Duke truly might wind up with the best recruiting class by by the end of it. That's all.
- [21:04]
Matt Norlander
That's fine. My larger point is that when people say the program with the best incoming freshman has the quote best recruiting class, that is not true. And I have stopped saying it or even acknowledging it. And I look forward to the day where everybody else does the same. Do you think astronauts fight over elbow room? Probably because advanced tech doesn't always mean more space. Until now. Introducing the Hyundai Ioniq 9, a three row electric SUV with over 300 miles of range, ultra fast charging capability and lots of space. The all new Hyundai Ioniq 9 space in an EV. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.
- [21:47]
Gary Parish
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- [21:49]
Matt Norlander
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- [21:50]
Gary Parish
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Matt Norlander
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- [21:55]
Gary Parish
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- [22:40]
Matt Norlander
Them will be number one in the top 25 and one later today. I'll figure it out before, before we break real quick.
- [22:46]
Gary Parish
I feel like you're going to a break just so Pop Isaacs is going to go to Texas A M. He started his career Texas Tech, good player. He only played eight games a year ago because of a hip issue with Creighton. So now he goes there and then minutes before we went live, Mackenzie Mbacco, who I was not even aware had withdrawn from the draft, but he has withdrawn from the draft. He is also going to play for Bucky McMillan at Texas a and M. That's a nice little boost. So A and M also gets Rylan Griffin from Kansas, a couple of lesser known players, Jakari Lane who was like a 17 point a game guy at North Alabama. No one knows who he is. I understand all that, but we'll see if he can be enough transfer of positive impact. Marcus Hill who is a decent player at NC State, Duke, Miles via Oklahoma and then Federico, Federico who was at Texas Tech comes over there. McMillan might actually have a team when, when you add Mbako and Isaac, he really might have a team that can be impactful in the sec. So USAM returning to Houston is the biggest headline of today. And then we're going to get to Hagerty in just a second. But maybe not so quietly. McMillan has done himself well here and I would be, I don't know the story just yet, but I'd be interested to see how, how he positioned his program to be the plan B for Isaacs because this happened. These were practically simultaneous. You know, he, he announces he signed with A M, he did it I guess early Tuesday or late Monday and Usanne out of the draft, returning to Houston and lo and behold, the Aggies with a new coach no less. Like not, not a proven thing yet. He gets two notable, notable players to commit to him. We'll see if it works out. But that's, that's good stuff there. I wouldn't think GP is going to have a M in his top 25 and 1. I wouldn't necessarily go that far either. But I do think that when you add those two P pieces, it's obviously conceivable that if McMillan hits and he uses a system and it works out well, that they could work their way into being a ranked team at some point next season. So, so some good days for, for the hoops program. I'm sure they don't much care about it down there in College Station in May when they're trying to gear up for football season which is a 365 day a year thing in that part of the country. But that's, that's, that's good gets for, uh, for Bucky. And to me, it makes an intriguing hire all the more interesting to see what they can do with that personnel next season.
- [25:04]
Matt Norlander
I think what we're finding out over the past couple of years, at least, and perhaps it goes back further than that, but certainly over the past couple of years, is that when this is the recipe that led to your new place, your boosters are motivated to set the new guy up to win. In other words, Texas A and M didn't fire its coach because they hated him. He left. He left them. He was just like, I want to go be somewhere else. And when you get left like that, whether it's Maryland getting left or A M getting left, when you get left, your boosters are like, we'll. We'll show this guy that he should have never left. And the best way you can show, quote, this guy he should have never left or the grass ain't always greener or all of these stupid things people say is to set your next guy up to win. And I, I'm assuming Bucky is just flushed with money, right?
- [25:57]
Gary Parish
Yeah. Because that university in general, like, like it's. Apparently we can keep this podcast moving, but it's apparently outrageous just how much, how many rich people are willing to give that much money to it. I think there's not, there's not a greater discrepancy between money invested and lack of results. And I, I know A M as a football program has gotten some, but they have not fulfilled. They have not fulfilled the promises and hopes and dreams of putting that much money in. So maybe it's trickling over to the basketball side. Maybe they can get a better bargain for their buck there on the hardwood.
- [26:29]
Matt Norlander
It hadn't worked in football to the degree that it should, but, buddy, it ain't because they ain't trying. It's not because they're not throwing all the money.
- [26:36]
Gary Parish
Did you see that chart that got shared? I think it was last week. Now, a lot of this was the, was the buyout for Jimbo Fisher, but it had sdc. Like, it might have been athletic department spending.
- [26:48]
Matt Norlander
Oh, it's crazy.
- [26:49]
Gary Parish
Did you see the chart, though? Like, a title is more than. First of all, I think Bama was like ninth on the list, which was crazy. And I don't, I don't remember what two was, if it was tennis or someone else. And A and M was more than double every Other school in the sec, in football. Absolutely crazy.
- [27:04]
Matt Norlander
Now it's so like there's a lesson in there. And I'm not saying it's a lesson everybody should follow. I'm just saying there's some evidence that what I'm about to say is true. If you want to rally your boosters monetarily, fire your coach or, or, or, or get a new coach. Just have a new coach. There is nothing that will rally people with their. I was going to say checkbooks, but you know what I mean. I don't even know if people use checkbooks anymore, but you know what I mean?
- [27:29]
Gary Parish
I actually, I still used, I still use my checks every so often. I do. Yeah, every once. You wrote a check.
- [27:35]
Matt Norlander
Okay, you ready for this? I had a heating and air guy and, and he like came over to do whatever he had to do. And I was like, okay, how much do I owe you? And he put a number on it. And I was like, cool, you just take a Venmo. And he was like, no. And I was like, first I was like, credit card. And I was like, but, but is it better for you with cash? You know, we're trying to work around everything.
- [27:55]
Gary Parish
Like, we got it, we gotta. We got an awesome painter guy. Yeah, I know the whole deal. Yes.
- [28:02]
Matt Norlander
Okay. So I was like, you got Venmo? He was like, no. He's like, what about like cash app? He was like, no. I said, what about PayPal? He was like, no. Like he had nothing. I don't even know he has a phone. Okay. I don't know. I don't even know how he found my house.
- [28:17]
Gary Parish
Okay.
- [28:18]
Matt Norlander
I said, Bro, it's 2025. And. And he said, I just take a cash or check. And I was like, well, I don't have either of those things. Like, like I have, I have like, I could maybe go to my kids room and look through a piggy bank and see how much money is in there, but I don't, I don't have cash. And I was like, let me go look for a check. Couldn't find a check. I had. I reordered checks from the bank just so that I could have a check to give my heat and air guy is a whole process. But.
- [28:44]
Gary Parish
And you know this is true, you could live for another 50 years and I certainly hope you will. Those checks are. Those checks are outlasting you. You're not. You're not right enough.
- [28:54]
Matt Norlander
I will. I'll never get to the last check. You could bury me with that checkbook. In fact, bury me with my checkbook. That's what I want. I want to be buried with my checkbook with. I want me and my mic and my checkbook. That's the last time I wrote a check. And I, it probably, it will probably go down in history as the last time I ever write a check.
- [29:15]
Gary Parish
I'm going to say no, I'm going to say. I want to know. I'm going to say by the end of 26, there's something else surfaces. You write a check for a second.
- [29:23]
Matt Norlander
I, I am being slightly. I feel I, I have to write checks.
- [29:27]
Gary Parish
Not that we can move this podcast along. No one cares about this. The reason why I write check, the reason why I write checks is when I, when I like pay, when I pay taxes, when I go to town hall. So that's what, that's what I did. That's when I write checks.
- [29:40]
Matt Norlander
Okay, I don't even pay, I don't even do like I somehow pay that online. I pay my taxes online where I do like I have to. I have a, a fee that I have to pay every month, an agent fee and I have to write a check for that.
- [29:54]
Gary Parish
There we go.
- [29:55]
Matt Norlander
There we go. So that's that. There was no good way to say that yearly.
- [29:59]
Gary Parish
That's every month.
- [30:00]
Matt Norlander
Oh buddy. It's every month. It's every month. But nothing is a better value in this whole world than great representation. That's what I learned. That's what I learned. That's what I learned.
- [30:11]
Gary Parish
So that is a great segue because Haggard, he could take some lessons for you. So let me just take.
- [30:20]
Matt Norlander
I need. Peter needs to text me and I need to get him representation because he possible he screwed this up.
- [30:27]
Gary Parish
PJ Hagerty over a Memorial Day weekend. He did commit to a surprising landing spot in Kansas State. GP's got some some representation lessons and some some what to nos about having an agent to pass along to Hagerty. We will get to that. But first let's get a word from our partners.
- [30:45]
Matt Norlander
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- [31:15]
Gary Parish
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- [31:37]
Matt Norlander
The comfort I need for summer prep. For your next trip with the A.
- [31:40]
Gary Parish
And F Vacation Shop, get their newest arrivals in store online and in the app.
- [31:45]
Matt Norlander
The news became official on Memorial Day. P.J. hagerty, since this All American for the University of Memphis Tigers has announced a commitment to Kansas Kansas State University. Reportedly it's in the neighborhood the NIL deal around two and a half million dollars. This comes after earlier in the off season he was reportedly offered by Memphis to stay in Penny Hardaway's program roughly $3 million. So if you believe all the reporting, and I have no reason not to, if you believe all the reporting, P.J. hagerty rejected a roughly $3 million deal from Memphis to take a roughly two and a half million dollar deal from Kansas State. What do you make of that?
- [32:25]
Gary Parish
Well, hold on, let me. I'm firing it right back at you. Let's do a little as we record this Tuesday morning Pod GP is in his Grind City media studio. This will obviously be a segment that you are talking about on your show here in about a half an hour. What do you make of the fact and I'll let we can get into the fit and why I pick Kansas State because that is interesting to me. But what do you make of the fact that Hagerty is a somewhat rare instance in the nil four or five year era that we've had here of a player taking less money and being, you know, an all American level type of talent which Hagerty technically was this past season he was an all American. And yet and I have that I was told that I was told less than 3. So yeah, 2.5 whatever we want to call it took less money to go somewhere else. To me that's surprising. What do you think?
- [33:14]
Matt Norlander
I don't think he intended to take less money. I don't think he ever thought he was going to have to take less money.
- [33:19]
Gary Parish
Right. But so why do you think that it wasn't Memphis again double back around the bend if you thought that. Do we think that the three wasn't still there? Do we think that Penny truly moved on? I. I'm just, I'm Just, oh, yeah, sure. I want to know your thought on it.
- [33:33]
Matt Norlander
According to the Memphis beat writers, and there's two like daily Memphis beat writers, you know, who cover the team full time. That's their job. According to their reporting, Memphis pulled the offer. Memphis moved on. Memphis just said, or at least massively decreased the officer, decrease the offer rather. So they either pulled it or massively decreased it. But the idea that on Monday, PJ Hagerty had a 3 million dollar offer from Memphis and a 2 point whatever offer from Kansas State and decided to take less from Kansas State instead of more from Memphis, according to the beat writers in Memphis, that is not what actually happened.
- [34:14]
Gary Parish
Why do we think Penny Hardaway, if indeed the offer was reduced, pulled whatever. Memphis isn't better for this. Why did we think we landed at this point?
- [34:25]
Matt Norlander
Well, I don't want to have revisions history. I thought it was smart for Memphis to move on at some point. Not necessarily. Shut the door and lock it like a. Not, not the way you explained. John Calipari does it at Arkansas. Like if you want to go on the transfer portal, that's fine. We wish you luck, but there's no coming back from that. We're locking the door behind you. I never suggested Penny should do that, and I don't think Penny did that. But what I did say is I would apply some pressure to PJ Hagerty and I would tell him, we have $3 million to give you right now. This is what I would have said a month ago. We have $3 million to give you right now and you can take it right now. But if you don't take it today, we're waking up tomorrow and we're going shopping with it like it's a Visa gift card with an expiration date. I'm gonna offer this money to somebody else and if I can get other people to take it, then we're going to give it away. And whatever's left from that $3 million, if you want it at some point, we'll give you whatever's left. But if we sign one do for 1.5, then it's just been cut in half. And that's the way I would have done this because otherwise it was just always going to end with him shopping himself to the highest bidder. And eventually somebody loses a player that they didn't think they were going to lose to the draft guy in the draft, but you assume he's going to withdraw, but then he doesn't withdraw. So all that money you had tied up in him, well then you just lost a player. You've got this free. I guess we'll go get us a P.J. hagerty, and then, boom, you just dump it on top of him and he leaves Memphis anyway. So I thought for a while this is the likely outcome. And I don't think Penny mishandled this. Although you are right, Memphis is not as good without PJ Hagerty as it would be with PJ Haggerty.
- [36:02]
Gary Parish
Yeah, it's. It's. It's not. I mean, they lose Tyrese Hunter as well. Tigers will be interesting next season. We'll save that for. For another show here.
- [36:12]
Matt Norlander
To me, the other. The other thing that's notable here, and this would be the thing that would concern me if I were Memphis. Not just that I lost a player, it's that there have been seven consensus all Americans in the Memphis basketball program in history like that were considered consensus all Americans. By the way, the NCAA defines that 7. P.J. hagerty is one of them. And literally none before P.J. hagerty had ever transferred out of the program.
- [36:43]
Gary Parish
Yeah, that's climate. Like, we understand that some of that.
- [36:46]
Matt Norlander
Side of the times. Yes. But every other consensus all American who has ever put on that uniform has either finished his career at Memphis or entered the NBA draft early and left college, but they've never transferred to another place. This is a situation where it. It became pretty obvious pretty early. PJ Haggerty didn't want to be at Memphis anymore. I mean, it's not like they. This isn't one of those deals where we just can't afford him. They offered $3 million. Reportedly they had the money, and he just decided he didn't want to be there. And that is like a real thing that made people blink in Memphis. Like, what. What are you chasing? But it's not something anybody would blink at if it happened to literally any other American Athletic Conference program.
- [37:35]
Gary Parish
Right.
- [37:37]
Matt Norlander
And I. To me, as a Memphis graduate, that's what concerns me. Memphis basketball is not what it once was in terms of its place in the sport and even its place in the city. They don't draw like they used to. They had a top 25 team all season last season, led by an all American guard, coached by the most beloved graduate in the history of the school. And people didn't come to the games. People are bored with this league and playing.
- [38:08]
Gary Parish
Yeah, the Lee. The league is a major. Like we're now. We're veering far afield here. But more than anything, it's the league. I think some of this is also from my remove post, not being in your city, gp Just kind of one thing after another after another with the program. And I think that can have impact on, on fan interest. It's just like, you know, this thing and this thing, there's always something with Memphis, but I think by far it's the league. That's.
- [38:29]
Matt Norlander
And I. To me, to me, that's, that's the scary part, because if you hear a UAB player just wants to transfer to the Big 10 when given the opportunity, you don't even blink. You're like, of course. And you hear South Florida player wants to transfer to the sec, you're like, well, of course. Well, is Memphis closer to being in that conversation now than it used to be? Because what just happened yesterday had never happened before. And if PJ Hagerty ever comes out and says, here's the truth, I love Penny Hardaway and, man, I enjoyed my time there and the money was great and the money I could have made was terrific, but I would rather spend the week playing Baylor and Kansas instead of San Antonio and East Carolina in empty gyms. Yes, like, we would. We would all understand that. Yes, we understand it when the Summit League Player of the year does it. We understand it when the a 10 player, the end, or anybody from that, like outside of the Power 4, Power 5, the Power 4, plus the Big East. When anybody outside of that moves up in conferences, we, we rarely question it. So maybe we shouldn't be questioning this one nearly as much as we are.
- [39:36]
Gary Parish
Yep, that's fair. Kansas State fans, we're going to talk about your team right now because this is an interesting, super interesting addition. So Casey's actually been in the headlines here a couple times here in recent days. Matt Driscoll, who coached at North Florida, so he was Chaz Lanier's coach before Chaz Lanier went and wound up at Tennessee. He had been there for 15, 16 years, best coach in that school's history. He's been longtime friends with Jerome Tank. Back when they were both assistants at Baylor, he left. And so he's going to be associate head coach at K State. And then just a couple of days later, they land Hagerty. Now, keep in mind, K State a year ago was a top three top four program in nil funds in the entire sport, and it didn't pay off whatsoever. They lose those players that they added. Doug McDaniel, Brendan Howson, Coleman Hawkins. What's interesting is a year ago, Coleman Hawkins got, you know, in the neighborhood of two a little bit if you took everything that was tied to Coleman Hawkins, nil deal. The valuation of that was north of 2 million. Here you get a player like Hagerty, you're going to pay him a little bit more and you're going to get a better player there. Hawkins was fourth on the team in scoring last season but he's gone. McDaniel, David Gasson is gone. A church is gone. Uganda on Yenso is gone. Kansas State was not remotely an NCAA tournament team last season. 1617 overall. Tang has missed the past two tournaments after making the lead eight in year one. Offensively they were way down. And here you bring in Hagerty. He averaged 21.7 points last season in addition to five pointing rebounds, 3.7 assists. He really did continue at Memphis. What he grew into his second season while at Tulsa. Some people may not realize Hagerty is now on his fourth school in four years. He was a non, he was a non player at tcu then he went to Tulsa. He pops in the American stays, goes to in league, goes to Memphis, does well. And now Tang is going to I while he's got some other pieces here like he's got. He's got guys who were impactful at the mid major level. How they blend around Hagerty will be interesting to me because to me it looks like on the outside looking in Tang is going to look to Hagerty to be a guy who potentially leads the nation in scoring. Like that could absolutely be the case. Does it translate to Kansas State being a tournament team to being a team that can get into that top 25 conversation? I know you don't have them in your off season rankings. I wouldn't even push back on that. But the transfers coming in are 20 point per game guy at Monmouth, a 16 point per game guy at Bowling Green, a 12 point per game guy at UNC Wilmington. They've got a, a transfer, Tyreek Smith, who I think is still going through the waiver process to get cleared. There's a couple of international players. It's. It's a, it's a mysterious mix of. We don't know what to expect from Kansas State. Like maybe this could be the fourth best team in the conference or maybe it will wind up being a repeat of what it was the past two seasons when it was just not quite good enough and hovering right there just below 500 in league play in the Big 12. But in bringing in Hagerty you are bringing in an alpha and he is capable. He is a good rebounding guard. He's not, I don't consider him to be ultra efficient. Like he can get his, he can get his shots. He's, he's actually, he's like a 63 from an NBA prospect perspective. Like he pulled out of the draft. He's an undersized shooting guard who needs to be able to be a point guard. And he's, he's just not that yet. He can distribute, but he's not that yet. Maybe he can grow into that. He doesn't shoot a ton from beyond the arc. We'll see if his, if his, if his three point attempts per game stay level or they go up. I think he took like, you know, three, three triples per game essentially. But he can hunt his shot well and he can go on heaters and yeah, it'll be GP this will be, this will be interesting to see what, what he is at Kansas State and if he affects winning. Tang needed a big win from a roster standpoint and this my last thing here and then take it away. This was surprising because I was told that K State looked into Hagerty like you know, a month ago and then call it early May was told by Hagerty's father because Hagerty didn't have an agent. And all this is tied into kind of how this has gone here. Like they, they looked into a few schools and they really didn't get the kind of momentum they were asking for a lot of money. They're asking for, you know, four north of four overall. That was not going to happen. And Kansas State got told it was out back earlier this month. And then for whatever reason, I'm sure we'll learn the story eventually here. At some point K State got back in and then quietly and diligently over the past week was able to close and however they were able to close and this is a, this is a big year upcoming. I don't know if Tang is on the hot seat coming in. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. But this is, you don't make the tournament a year from now you would be and we'll see. If, if by going essentially all in on Hagerty being the alpha guy, can that equate to you being an NCAA tournament level team? I don't know the answer, but I do find this to be a very fascinating landing spot for him because this was not where people thought he would. It would wind up going.
- [44:40]
Matt Norlander
I don't know if you've ever been house hunting during a market crash, but.
- [44:46]
Gary Parish
Thankfully I did that.
- [44:48]
Matt Norlander
I did that Once I. I did that once. And we were very young, my wife and I, we were driving around neighborhoods and we saw a house and we were like, that house is. I mean, I guess it'd be nice to have that, but at this point in our lives, that's probably not in our price range. And then the whole market collapsed and suddenly this house was in our price range. And I think that's what happened to Kansas state right here. P.J. hagerty came down to their price range. And so, I mean, another coach who was involved in the Hagerty thing a month ago, like, I was talking to him about something different and I was like, hey, just what's going on with the Hagerty thing? Are you in there? He's like, we were, but I don't think we are anymore. But I don't know. We could be. It was one of those, you know, we're just sort of. We'll see. It was like, maybe like, we're not in it now, but it might circle back to us and we'll see. And so it. I, I think they entered the transfer portal with some big ideas about how it was going to go. And then it did not go the way that they anticipated. And then the circle and back came and. And now here we are. As for Kansas State, I think the updated numbers at Torvik put them to 44.
- [46:00]
Gary Parish
We have. I haven't checked. We have off season Torvik updates.
- [46:04]
Matt Norlander
Oh, sure.
- [46:05]
Gary Parish
Oh, look at you. Okay.
- [46:06]
Matt Norlander
Where have you been?
- [46:07]
Gary Parish
What have you been doing around with Torvik in May? Not happening. No, no, no, no, no, no. I love me some college, but that. We haven't. All the roster stuff hasn't settled yet. Anyway, they're 44 real 1 real 1's.
- [46:19]
Matt Norlander
F with Torvik 12.
- [46:20]
Gary Parish
Yeah, you're only effing with Torvik because you got to Update a top 25 and 1. Let's be real.
- [46:25]
Matt Norlander
No, I have for Tourbill because I'm. I'm built this way. I'm wired this way. I am wired to F with Orvik 12 months a year. 365. 11:00am 11:00pm I'll be. I could F with Corvick at any point in any day in any month on the calendar.
- [46:40]
Gary Parish
You know how to sort the wob over there? I guess.
- [46:44]
Matt Norlander
I mean, I think, I think I.
- [46:45]
Gary Parish
Can figure it out. I think I can figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. You said you were asking. You were flirting. There's a difference. You were. You said you were effing with Torvik and you're Flirting. There's a difference.
- [46:54]
Matt Norlander
If I'm flirting, I'm effing.
- [46:56]
Gary Parish
Oh, really? Turn that into it.
- [46:59]
Matt Norlander
I don't even think, I don't even think you're allowed to say that. I think that's a ridiculous thing to even say, especially with this Diddy trial going on. I should just shut up for a second.
- [47:09]
Gary Parish
I'd say so.
- [47:11]
Matt Norlander
Maybe I should just shut up for a second. 44th at Torvik. If with Torvik 12 months a year, ninth in the Big 12. That's borderline NCAA tournament stuff. I will say Kansas State was in the Elite Eight two years ago and do you know who got him there? A little guard who could really score.
- [47:32]
Gary Parish
Different, though, very different.
- [47:34]
Matt Norlander
Different types of players, but a little guard who could really score.
- [47:37]
Gary Parish
So if you're in the state.
- [47:39]
Matt Norlander
So if you're a Kansas State fan, if you're Brent Stover and you're trying to figure out what to grab onto, like, grab on to that. I will say, does this put pressure on Tang more?
- [47:51]
Gary Parish
I do think it does in a sense. Like, and he wouldn't run from it, obviously, but you bring in a player, you bring in an all American who was third nationally in scoring. Gonna be the head of your snake. And yeah, another high profile transfer portal edition. You know, he's different, he's different from Hawkins and all that, but that, you know, we even had someone mention the chat, like there will be some of that. There will be like it will be a problem if we get to Thanksgiving. K State has already taken two or three losses and Hagerty is shooting 42 from the field and not being what they thought. That will be a problem if we get to that point. But you take the player thinking that that's not what's going to happen.
- [48:29]
Matt Norlander
That's right, you take the player, you do this. But once you do this, you are setting it up where if it doesn't go well for the second straight year, people are going to be saying, did them dudes really just overpay for a losing team? Again like that. That became a narrative connected to Coleman Hawkins, perhaps unfairly, but buddy, it was attached to him. And his season quite literally ended with him in tears. Crying.
- [48:56]
Gary Parish
Yeah.
- [48:57]
Matt Norlander
About the experience and how difficult that was. Having everybody attach real money to your name and a disappointing season. He was the face of that. He was really the face on some level of the perception of overpaid college basketball players. Yeah, he was the face of that last year. And when you swoop, swoop in late and you add a, A hagerty at this price tag, if it doesn't go well, that becomes a bullet point connected to your program. It's, it's the type of thing people just start tweeting every night you lose. Like every night you lose. It becomes a tweet about how much you pay for Coleman Hawkins and how much you pay for P.J. hagerty. And to circle back what we're talking about at Texas A M, it also at least has the chance to make the rich people who are making all of this possible. If it doesn't go well, two years in a row spending this type of money on a high profile transfer, then somebody stands up and says why are we doing this again? Where's the return on investment? Where's the bang for the buck? It just sets up some interesting little fascinating, some interest in an interesting dynamic that will be. I'll you know, it'll be something to monitor in Manhattan.
- [50:15]
Gary Parish
Yep. Then did I the dynamic we can wrap here, the dynamic to watch for in in the Little Apple is that you've got a proven stat monster of a, of a lead guard and he's going to be surrounded by supplemental pieces that are proven at the mid major level. And how they, how they blend all that together will be. Will be intriguing. And I, I think Kansas State has a wide spectrum of potential outcomes next season. But, but that is a good getting like Tang and his staff being in position to land him and get him. That is. That is a huge upgrade and at least introduces Kansas State as a tournament team as a real possibility next season in my opinion. And you know someone jocko right here in the chat says he'll be a pre. Hagerty will be a preseason All American. That's probably fair. I'm not in that space yet where I'm, I'm thinking about that stuff. But we do preseason first team, second team, third team All American. I don't know if I'd go first team, but Hagerty was a second team All American. I, playing next to Hunter, actually think I really helped him at Memphis. But knowing what he'll be expected to do, I think it would be only fair to at least put him on that second team status going in next season as an All American. Considering what he's achieved the past two seasons at two different schools, I think.
- [51:25]
Matt Norlander
He'S got to be on an All American team. If he's on a preseason top 50 team as a returning second team consensus all American, he's got to be on there somewhere. But it doesn't necessarily have to be first team, but that can be a conversation for another day. Let's get out of here. Shouts to David Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. shouts to Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck, Larnell, Torvik, Tang, Cassie. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anywhere. You subscribe to podcasts, including Apple and Spotify, more of us than there are of them. That needs to be reflected in the comments, so please do that. We'll talk to you again a little later on this week. Till then, take you can be anything. Paramount Podcasts Now Play Clock is running. You will never see a movie like this again. Mission Impossible is a symphony of action, scale and spectacle. Tom Cruise has outdone himself. Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. Now playing.
- [53:08]
Gary Parish
Rated PG 13.