NCAA Tournament expansion talks stall -- for now. Is there hope to stay at 68? + Why new kinds of NIL chaos have quickly taken hold in college sports

Summary

Podcast Summary: Eye On College Basketball – July 11, 2025

Title: NCAA Tournament Expansion Talks Stall -- For Now. Is There Hope to Stay at 68? + Why New Kinds of NIL Chaos Have Quickly Taken Hold in College Sports

Hosts: Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander
Release Date: July 11, 2025
Description: In this episode, Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander delve into the recent developments surrounding the NCAA Tournament expansion and the evolving landscape of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) agreements in college sports. They provide insightful commentary, analyze the implications of these changes, and discuss the potential future of college basketball amidst these challenges.

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1. Introduction and Overview

The episode begins with Gary Parrish welcoming listeners and introducing Matt Norlander. They promptly dive into the primary topics of discussion: the stalled talks on expanding the NCAA Tournament and the emerging chaos surrounding NIL deals in college athletics.

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2. NCAA Tournament Expansion Stalls

Recent Developments:

• The NCAA Division I Men's and Women's basketball committees met in Savannah and Philadelphia, respectively, to discuss expanding the tournament field.
• Outcome: No decision was reached to increase the tournament size beyond 68 teams for the 2025 season. The committees opted to maintain the current structure, postponing any expansion until at least 2026.

Key Points Discussed:

• Financial Constraints: Both hosts agree that financial viability is a significant barrier to expansion. Gary notes, “GP if they are going to expand, the money has to work, period, whether it's 72 or 76” (03:15).
• Public Pressure: Matt suggests that public opinion played a role in the decision to stall the expansion. He states, “If we all thought a week ago this is coming and then it didn't happen, I do think it's reasonable to assume the public pressure played at least some role in it” (06:59).
• Coaches’ Perspectives: Gary shares insights from conversations with coaches, highlighting a strong sentiment against expansion. “Some coaches obviously, understandably, want to get to 76, but a lot are saying 76 is stupid” (09:25).
• Historical Context and Data Analysis: Gary discusses his column where he analyzed the impact of Division I size on tournament access, concluding that expansion does not significantly enhance opportunities for new teams. “Only once out of more than 1400 at-large bids has a newly promoted Division I team made it in” (18:35).
• Bracket Logistics: Matt elaborates on the logistical challenges of expanding the tournament, explaining how an increase to 72 or 76 teams complicates bracket structures and diminishes the simplicity that makes March Madness so appealing. “It's just a significant barrier to entry because it still isn't the round of 64” (17:58).

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Parrish: “There is a very real possibility that finances are what's stopping the expansion” (02:50).
• Matt Norlander: “We didn’t decide 68 is the perfect number. 64 is the perfect number” (22:02).

Conclusion on Expansion: Both hosts express skepticism about future expansions, emphasizing that maintaining the integrity and excitement of the tournament is paramount. They contemplate whether the NCAA will find a middle ground, possibly expanding to 72 teams instead of 76 to mitigate financial and logistical issues.

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3. New Kinds of NIL Chaos in College Sports

House Settlement Overview:

• A recent House settlement aimed to regulate NIL deals by imposing strict guidelines and caps on payouts to student-athletes.
• Financial Cap: Schools are limited to distributing a maximum of $20.5 million to all their student-athletes, leading to significant budgeting challenges, especially for institutions unable to meet this cap.

Emerging Issues:

• Denied NIL Deals: Coaches report that previously valid NIL agreements are now being rejected, causing frustration and confusion. “NIL deals that were previously valid are getting denied” (33:00).
• Accusations of Dishonesty: The inability to honor promised NIL deals has led to coaches accusing each other of lying, exacerbating tensions within athletic departments.
• Impact on Recruitment: Coaches are struggling to navigate the new NIL landscape, often promising deals that cannot be fulfilled under the new regulations. Matt highlights, “Coaches are still telling recruits they can secure significant NIL deals, but then those deals get denied” (39:23).

Resurgence of Cheating:

• The stringent NIL rules are anticipated to drive some coaches and boosters to find illicit ways to compensate players, reminiscent of past scandalous behaviors.
• Gary warns about the potential for increased rule-breaking: “Players getting more than a million dollars... they’re gonna have to get extremely creative” (45:45).
• Historical Parallels: Matt draws comparisons to past cheating scandals, suggesting that the new constraints might lead to similar unethical practices as stakeholders seek ways to bypass restrictions.

Future Implications:

• Collective Bargaining: There is speculation about the eventual need for collective bargaining agreements to address player compensation comprehensively.
• Long-Term Chaos: Both hosts agree that the current measures are insufficient and likely to cause ongoing instability in college sports, particularly basketball and football.

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Parrish: “These collectives are expected to be shot down entirely” (34:04).
• Matt Norlander: “College football and basketball get to collective bargaining because that's what it needs” (55:23).

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4. Conclusion and Closing Remarks

Gary and Matt conclude the episode by reflecting on the tumultuous changes facing college basketball. They express hope for more sensible decisions regarding the NCAA Tournament expansion while voicing concern over the chaotic state of NIL agreements. The hosts emphasize the need for transparency and integrity in navigating these challenges to preserve the sport's integrity.

Final Thoughts:

• Gary Parrish: Reflects on the potential long-term effects of the NIL chaos, emphasizing that the current approach is merely swapping one set of problems for another (60:12).
• Matt Norlander: Encourages listeners to stay informed and engaged, reiterating the importance of maintaining the sport's competitive balance and ethical standards (67:34).

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5. Notable Advertisements and Segments Skipped

The episode includes several advertisements for Carvana, State Farm, Polestar, and American Express Business Platinum, as well as promotions for CBS Sports content. These segments do not contain relevant discussion topics and have been omitted from this summary.

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This episode of Eye On College Basketball offers a comprehensive analysis of two critical issues affecting the landscape of college basketball: the stalled expansion of the NCAA Tournament and the ensuing chaos from new NIL regulations. Through informed discussions and data-driven insights, Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current state and future prospects of college basketball.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the transcript segments to aid in locating specific quotes.

Transcript

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[Matt Norlander]

Hey there. I'm Gary Parish. Welcome back to the CBS Sports I own College Basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting dodo birds and leaky black. Matt Norlander is here with me. You see him if you're watching on YouTube, you know what to do to the like button shouts to Brandon Davies and if you haven't yet, subscrib to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel. It would be awesome if you did that. While you're here. Let's get into it. The NCAA Division 1 Men's and Women's basketball committees met this week, as I'm sure you heard, in two different locations, and decided to do nothing as it pertains to touching the NCAA basketball tournaments. For now, we're not going to go up to 72 or 76, and we're not going back to 64. For now, we're staying at 68. Norlander, good to see you on this Friday morning. Do you think the public pressure prevented these committees from doing what it appears they wanted to do, at least for now?

[Gary Parish]

Man, I'd like to believe that maybe there's a maybe a little bit of that Just a little bit. GP Good morning. Good early morning here. A little frog in my throat. Hello. And by the way, my.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, you ain't even in the central time zone. You don't really know how early it is. You're not even in the central time zone. You don't know how early it is.

[Gary Parish]

Not in California. GP Take it easy over there. But I'm.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, hold on, let me look around. I'm not in California.

[Gary Parish]

You're correct, by the way. You can't really tell them too much with. But like, my laptop is balanced. It's the first time I've ever done a podcast with my laptop on top of a microwave inside a hotel room.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, I've done that. It is. There is the rule number one in podcasting. @ some point you're gonna have to sit your laptop on something you never thought you would sit your laptop on.

[Gary Parish]

That's where we're at now. I'm just. It's at a. It's at more of a tilt than I expected to. And here we are. Do I think maybe there's a possibility that, you know, there were like four or five national columns in the past week that basically, mine included implore the selection committee not to do this and provided opinions and factual reasoning behind that? I do think it's possible. To me, the fact that we don't have a decision is surprising. I mean, that is surprising because it was, it was told to me by multiple people in recent weeks that this week, you know, they really like borderline needed to figure out a decision for 2026 at minimum. And now that we're talking here on Friday morning, and we don't have that, I mean, according to the message yesterday from Dan Gabbit, who runs, who runs everything with, with, with men's basketball for the NCAA, any of the six options is on the table for 2026 at minimum. I'm going to read very briefly the very quick statement. He said, quote, the NCAA Division 1 men's basketball and women's committees met this week with the men's taking place in Savannah and the women's meeting in Philadelphia. The topic of expanding the field for each championship was discussed at length, but no decision or recommendation was made. These still viable outcomes include the tournaments remaining at 68 teams or expanding the fields to either 72 or 70 in advance of the 2026 or 2027 championships. No update is certainly intriguing to me now. I will note this. I had a high ranking person in college athletics who was not in the room this week. Text me earlier this week after I wrote my column. And they reached out and they said, there's, it's funny. He said, there's no way they're going to get this decided for next year. And I, I sent back a text saying, that's interesting hearing it from you, but I was told they're going to decide. Like, you know, he's like, they won't. They have to figure out too much with format. What do you do with all these teams? How much do you expand? By the huge financial question surrounding it, in addition to a few other things. And this person said, it's just, it's, it's too much to decide this week, but particularly if you're going to do major expansion for 20, 26. That person knew what they were talking about. They wound up being right. They're the only person that posited that to me before we actually got an answer. And so here we are. I do think the biggest thing is the finances around it. As one person. I'm now in Augusta, Georgia. Hello. Good morning. But I was at Adidas tournament for the past two days. So I was in Rock Hill, South Carolina, yesterday, and I talked to a number of coaches in advance of this evening getting not decided. But after it was decided, one person said, no decision. And I said, no decision. He said, yeah, that's because they haven't figured out the money yet. Kind of just said it, set it flatly there. There's a very real possibility that that's what we're looking at here, because it has been said on the record plenty of times. GP if they are going to expand, the money has to work, period, whether it's 72 or 76. And quite clearly it doesn't yet, and it hasn't for years. That's why they haven't made this expansion decision. But part of me does believe, or at least hopes to believe, that the people in that room are at least taking this seriously enough and understand just how unpopular, like truly unpopular, expanding the tournament would be. And so maybe, just maybe, they'll. They'll wind up, you know, pragmatically deciding to do the right thing, which would be to not expand the tournament.

[Matt Norlander]

I'll give you a lot of credit here. Like, a lot of people have written columns, you noted not many people went in and dug into the numbers the way that you did. I appreciate that kind of column. It's easy for all of us to, you know, tweet or jump on a podcast or radio show and say we don't want the NCAA tournament To expand, it's quite another thing to, to actually run through the history of it, look at the numbers, and be able to undeniably say the thing. These people who have the power to change this are telling you it's a lie. They're not telling you the truth. If you want to expand because you want to have 15 of your league members in the NCAA tournament as opposed to 13, say that and I'll at least know you're being honest with me. But the reasons that they deliver to the public whenever it is they talk about this stuff are nonsensical. And, and, you know, and I, I just, I don't, I don't have much patience for the nonsense like, like, tell me the truth and then let's talk about it. But when you try to justify what it is you clearly want to do with reasons that aren't supported by facts or data, I, I tune out pretty quickly and get frustrated with you. And I thought you, of all the people who wrote about this over the past week, I thought you did the best job of not just saying they're lying to you, but showing how they're lying to you. And, and I don't, I, I will never be able to know for at least, I don't know in this moment if that had any impact. But I, if we all thought a week ago this is coming and then it didn't happen, I do think it's reasonable to assume the public pressure played at least some role in it. Maybe not the biggest role. Finances are a factor here, and if you can't make it make financial sense on the men's side, good luck trying to make it make financial sense on the women's side, adding 14 or however many teams to the bracket. And so that, that's a deal. I get it. But that was a deal last week, two weeks ago, two months ago. They've always known that. They went to these meetings. I believe if you'd asked them two months ago, and you probably did, what do you think's gonna happen? They told you one thing and then the opposite, or at least something different happened. And I think the most obvious explanation is the, the, the public pressure is, is at least given them pause.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, I think it's fair to deduce that. And I, and I, and I do hope that is, I mean, I hope that is the case because they, you know, they should read the proverbial room here. It is pretty astounding. Parrish. I say this with all sincerity, like, and, and try not to be close minded about A lot of other elements and aspects to things in, in American sports. I, I don't know if there's a more unpopular idea other than outright folding a league than expanding the tournament. You know, our buddy Rob Doster, who, albeit, yes, he's a college basketball immediate personality, but, you know, the, the people who love the sport follow him, and he put up a poll and I haven't checked it and, you know, more than a day now, but it was like 12, 13,000 votes. Dude, 94% of the people that respond to that poll. Do you want tournament expansion said no. A 94 to 6 split on any topic in the United States of America in 2025 is near impossible. So, yes, they should be taking heavy stock of this. There's just not a lot of reason. You know what's interesting, dp, is I talked to casually a little bit. I talked to some coaches about the tournament expansion here yesterday, and while some of them, like, would be okay with it going to 72, a lot of them, you know, frankly said, like, I get why they're doing it, but I think, like, 76 is stupid. Like, there's no reason we need 76 teams. Some coaches obviously, understandably, want to get to 76. But I was surprised on the ground here yesterday. Just, you know, hey, listen, we're waiting on the big news. And that was the other thing, though, by the way, Parish talking to a few coaches. I was like, how you doing? Good. What's the, what's the latest? I was like, well, just waiting on the big news today and like, four or five. I'm like, what news? I was like, you guys are hilarious. Like, the fate of the thing that everyone cares about in this sport could be decided today, and you don't know this is happening. I guess they, not necessarily that they should, but I was just, I was, I was poking fun at all.

[Matt Norlander]

But that, that does not surprise me. I have learned over the years that coaches are just really locked in on what they're locked in on.

[Gary Parish]

Yes.

[Matt Norlander]

And so, like, whatever college coach you were talking to is, is more concerned about a possible zoom call they have scheduled with a possible future player or whatever than they are about ncaa. That, that, that specifically does not surprise me. You ever had a conversation with the college basket? I know you have, but like, in February about, talk to a, talk to an ACC coach about the Big Ten in February. They have no idea they did. They, they do not follow the sport thoroughly. They, they, they. They run their program to the best of their ability, but most, most of them not all, and I don't even want to say most, but certainly some, they do not follow the sport at all. They're just doing what they do.

[Gary Parish]

Yeah, without a doubt. But anyway, the point of this is I did it. I did expect to hear, you know, more stringent support from coaches on the ground here about why 72 or 76 should be the way. And to be clear, some do that, but, you know, I'm not going to name the coach, but there's like a sitting power conference head coach who's recently made a very deep run in the tournament. And we were just talking casually. So, like, he might be fine with it being on record, but I didn't ask if I was gonna use it on record. And he's like, man, expanding the tournament would be just the stupidest thing. It's just so stupid. Like, why, why are we, why are we even messing around with this? So I at least wanted to provide a little additional perspective on this where, you know, so often the line is like, the only people that want conference expansion are commissioners, athletic directors and coaches. And while broadly speaking, that is very true, and it's extremely true when it comes to commissioners, that was the other coach is not necessarily. That's not across the board. And then I had a lot of people yesterday ask me, okay, tell me why this is happening. Why are we here? Is it just about money? And I explained, well, yes, it is, but the money is actually not there. And it's more about conference commissioners wanting to get as many teams possible into the tournament so they can have better chances of having their teams win and get more money for their conferences. I mean, it's all about greed. Real quick, you mentioned my column. I appreciate that. We'll try and link that here in the YouTube description after the fact, after we're live here and in the downloadable portion for our audience on the audio side, I brought up a few different things, but the biggest myth that I just had been sitting on and waiting to debunk is this just this flat out lie as it pertains to access particular high major access to the tournament. Because Division 1 is almost 100 teams bigger now than it was when the tournament expanded in 1985. And there have been 91 teams, 91 teams that have joined Division 1 since the tournament expanded in 85. Only one time in that group of 91. Only once out of more than 1400 at large bids, folks, one time has one of those teams that is new to Division 1 in 40 years gotten in that large bid. It was UCF in 2019, the team that almost beat Zion Williamson Stoop team, lo and behold in the second round of that tournament there. So the teams that are that have been added and there's more data. I'm not going to run down everything here on the show. There's all those teams have not resisted access one bit whatsoever to high major clearance into the tournament. It just isn't a thing. And then even beyond that, I went and looked at the past 10 years worth of NCAA tournaments and showed just how frequently power conferences are receiving at larges. It's an 83% clip. It's more than four out of every five at large bids. It's only increased in the past few years. Conferences are bigger than ever. They're getting a bigger percentage. This isn't necessarily surprising. I just wanted to provide the data for it. The access thing is, is just bogus. And then the other thing I pointed out in the column that I feel just hasn't been talked about enough is the size of Division 1 to me is irrelevant. Parrish. I mean, I genuinely mean this. If we had a Division 1 men's basketball environment population of 147 teams like slightly bigger than what FBS football is right now and we had a 64 team tournament, it wouldn't bother me. Like the ratio to that, the whole deal is that 64 was the magic formula and, and D1 could have been 2000 teams deep or 150 teams deep. Doesn't matter. It's the 64. It's the six rounds to win a championship that was the perfect tournament. And now we've like, we've put this weird appendage on it. So it's 68 and it's just enough where we're okay with it because we got this little, little tiny appetizer on Tuesday, Wednesday going to 76. My last thing, take it away because I had to explain this to a number of people at the Adidas event yesterday because if you're going to go to 76 when you start the first round on Thursday, you need to start at 64 teams. So right now with the 68 team tournament, you have 60 teams get auto put into the bracket and then eight of them have to fight to get to Thursday. Friday, okay, with 76, that means you will have 52 teams auto placed into Thursday, Friday and 24 teams. The bracket logic would necessitate that 24 teams would play on Tuesday and Wednesday. That would probably be all 16 seeds. You expand the field. Those at larges are probably twelves, maybe even a 13 or two squeaks in there and then you still have an awkward four games that you have to figure out, okay, are we going to split that difference? Are we going to have two fifteens playing to the field for Thursday, Friday, are we going to have this deal where it's like all twelves, two elevens, two 13s? It's just going to be awkward. And even as I was explaining this to again, men who have lived in college basketball their entire lives and like, wait a second, explain this to me again. I said, that's the point, man. You have a major reason why college basketball. March Madness is such a compelling, amazing, but easy to digest product, is we have this selection Sunday and then people take three days to fill out their brackets. Either print it on paper, it's symmetrical, makes sense, go online and if you have this weird 2014 quasi first round on Tuesday, Wednesday, yes, it will be more games, but to me it is a significant barrier to entry because it still isn't the round of 64. And you're kind of muddling the process and the product and the cosmetic appeal of it in the process. And at least for now, for a few more weeks, we, we wait and see on, on what the fate will be. I was told a decision is guaranteed no matter what within a month. My informed speculation tells me that we'll probably get it, we'll probably get it by like the end of this month, July. I don't know if we get to like the third or fourth day of August before we get an answer.

[Matt Norlander]

I thought maybe they would just Friday news dump it like, like at 4:30 today, just boom. Or like and just by the time we get to Monday, everybody's, you know, talking about Cooper Flag and whatever he's doing out in Las Vegas. But obviously they just push pause for now. To me, in addition to all the data that you provided that showed the size of Division 1 has no real impact on the NCAA tournament. And that's exactly right. In a point I've made forever, it is more sensible, you ready for this, to cut Division 1 than it is to add to the NCAA tournament.

[Gary Parish]

I agree.

[Matt Norlander]

If we have 250 teams in Division 1, only about 150 of them matter. You ready for this? If we have 400 teams in Division 1, only about 150 of them matter. If we have 2,000 teams in Division 1, only about150 of them matter in any sort of meaningful way. So you can grow this thing as, as large as you want to grow it and I will still say Most of those schools have no, like, congrats on this school for going Division 1. It's not competing with Duke in Kentucky and Louisville and Kansas. All right? They shouldn't even be. It is, it makes less sense that they're competing theoretically for the same trophy than, than it does to expand the tournament that we use to determine who gets the trophy because a bunch of teams are now in Division 1 that will have no impact on the tournament. So that's undeniable. And then I thought the point you made about just like, who is arguing for this? Who wants, ain't the Sunbelt commissioner who wants this? So they're lying to you. And I think it's just helpful to understand that they will probably keep lying to you and then expand the tournament because that's what powerful people in America do all the time. They just lie to you and do what they want to do. And so we'll probably get there. But I do think on some level the, the unpopularity of, of this possibility has at least delayed it for, according to your calendar, a month. Our friend Seth Davis is probably the most high profile media member who is in favor of this. And so there's a, there's a lot of back and forth there. And I've even gotten some messages because I tweeted when I retweeted your column the earlier in the week, there were some messages I got like, oh, you're subtweeting Seth and oh, you're going at set. Seth Davis is my friend, all right? Like, not only my colleague and, but like, genuinely my friend. I love Seth Davis. I tell him I love him. All right? This might surprise you, but I have friends who disagree with me on things. And just like, moving forward, we're probably, I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news, but we're probably all going to have to have friends that we disagree with on certain things, and the least important among them will be NCAA Tournament expansion. Okay? So, like, we can disagree on what the numbers should be and still, like, laugh at each other and text each other and have fun of this.

[Gary Parish]

I'm there. I'm there with you. He's out of his mind on this stuff, but I'm right there with you.

[Matt Norlander]

Literally texting this from Santorini, which I love, but, like, I, I, I don't even want to. Like, we just disagree on it. That's it. That is as simple and, and as, as complicated as I'll make it. We just disagree on how many teams should be in the NCAA Tournament. But one thing he said that got some attention is like, I don't understand. This was a couple days ago ago, how Everybody just decided 68 is the perfect number. And my response to that would be this. We didn't decide 68 is the perfect. Yeah, 64 is what I have decided is the perfect number. I would rather go to 64 than 72. All right? It fits on the piece of paper. It's perfect. And I know. Let me just say this real quick that you're saying, and everybody's got to fill out this bracket by Tuesday instead of Thursday. And people be like, okay, just adjust. Like, it's like, you got. You still got two days to fill out your bracket. It's not weird.

[Gary Parish]

It's. It's.

[Matt Norlander]

But it's still weird.

[Gary Parish]

Implement a bracket pool. And you're like, okay, are we counting these games? They're not quite it.

[Matt Norlander]

And beyond that. Just let me. Let me. Let me put it this way. And yes, we would all adjust. I'm on record, by the way, if we do expand the NCAA tournament, we will all adjust. It will not kill the sport, ruin the sport, if only because I can't think of an American sport that has been ruined by expansion. Major League Baseball puts more teams in the playoffs than it used to. I think it's great.

[Gary Parish]

I think. I think boxing was legitimately ruined by expansion. Just. I think that might be the one that it's actually true of.

[Matt Norlander]

Perhaps. But, like, in terms of, let's say, team sports, Right. Major League Baseball has expanded. As a Mets fan who finished seven games behind the Braves my entire life, this is great. I'm interested in baseball deeper into the season than I otherwise would be in a lot of seasons. NFL playoffs have expanded. NBA playoffs have expanded. If you want to take it outside of the country, the World cup has expanded. You know, everything's fine. This would also. We would adjust. We'd still get fired up for Duke, Carolina. All right. We'd still get fired up for, you know, Kansas and Baylor. It'll be fine, but it's unnecessary. And it's not. I. Just because something will be fine doesn't mean it's worth doing.

[Gary Parish]

Correct. That's the whole point.

[Matt Norlander]

Right? It's a net negative. It will be fine, but it doesn't mean that. That doesn't mean it's worth. We didn't decide. 68 is the perfect number. 64 is the perfect number. And they took it to 68 anyway. First they took it to, you know, 65, then they took it to 68. We're just trying to keep it as close to 64 as we can. That's the thing. We'd love to go back to 64. We know we're not doing that. So we don't love 68. Be clear about that. We just know that 68 is closer to 64 than 72 is, than 76 is. And that's what we're trying to. To. To stay as close to as we can. And so I don't know if we're going to. But that's the. And in terms of, like, filling out a bracket before Tuesday, it's not just, like getting it done by a deadline. It's just. It's. You ever been to a doctor's office? This is what I have.

[Gary Parish]

I have, actually. Thank you for asking. I have been to a doctor's office.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, I had to ask. Not all Americans can go to doctor's offices. Okay. So I had to ask, but I assumed you had. It's good to hear. It's one thing when they hand you one piece of paper and say, fill this out. It's another thing when they hand you, like, a bunch of stuff and you're like, I. At least me, I get overwhelmed. I'm like, I can't do this. Don't you have this in a computer somewhere? Don't you know my phone number? How did I even get here? If you don't know my phone number? All right. Why do I have to write that you know my name? Why do I have to write this down when you ask me to do more than I'm used to doing or comfortable, Just. It's overwhelmed. And I know this is apples to oranges, but like, handing somebody a 60, 14 bracket saying, Fill this out on one sheet of paper, that's just an easy thing to do.

[Gary Parish]

Easy. Correct.

[Matt Norlander]

When you make it more than that, I know this is very small. If nothing else, it just complicates the paper or the website. It just complicates how you go about doing all of this, and that's a net negative. It. Is it the biggest deal in the world? No. Will it ruin the sport expansion? No. But it's unnecessary. It's a net negative. It. It's just. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. And even if we adjust and all of that stuff, it's just. It's better the way it is. How about this? Even when we. If we get it. When we get it, we'll look back and go, it was better the way it was before. Just like I think most of us look back at 64 and say it was better then than it is now.

[Gary Parish]

And I hate, I hate the mode of thinking where it's like, well, yeah, we'll adjust and you know, they'll just learn to accept it. Man, I hate that stuff. There's so much about that that infects our world that is just like, yeah, we'll just change it for changing sake and we'll just, we'll grow to get used to it. We don't have to do that. There is still the option to not touch the thing. Okay. It is better at 68 than it would be at 72. And absolutely. Do you realize how bad the at large teams will be in a 76 team field now? Like truly look, go look at the teams that would have been eight removed from making the tournament last year. It's, it's uninspiring. It's, it's, there's, there's no defense for a 76 team tournament. I do wonder, my interpretation here, I do wonder if, because you know, as I told when a couple folks asked me yesterday what do I thought was happening, I was like, if you made me guess, like, I don't want it to be 76, but if you're making me guess in the three, I, I will get 76. I kind of wonder if this. The committee members sat in that room, they really, really talked about how much 68 is cherished by people that follow college basketball. But even the general sports audience, and we're dealing with the 76 and looking at the logistics of that and if the finances were too tough on that and if they are trying to compromise between the two and figure out how to make 72 work if they go to 72 real quick on this, if they do, logic would suggest that in a 72 team format, it's still bigger than it needs to be. It's a cleaner bracket. You would have theoretically all 16s play into the tournament and then you're all at largest, which are probably all 12 seats playing to the tournament. So still not a desired effect. But it's way less. It just, it's, it's less unwieldy than 76 and pulling out 24 teams to play on Tuesday and Wednesday. We'll see, we'll see where we get. I do hope, because I, I still maintain this, I still maintain that there are people on the committee in the NCAA that don't want to expand the tournament. They don't want to do it. But there's been Enough pressure and inclination from conference commissioners and other powerful people in college athletics to seriously look at it and consider it that they're, they're, they're just, they're taking this as long as possible. GP we're going on three years of this and we're, I thought we would be clear, like, be talking about it this morning or yesterday with an emergency podcast, but they're going to take a few more weeks, figure out the financials are manageable and get it done. Because the women's tournament, just so our folks realize that, listen and watch the show, the women's tournament loses millions and millions and millions of dollars. You add they have to the women's and men's have to be the same. So if you go to 72 or 76 for the men, you have to do it for the women. You are losing millions of more dollars in expenses with all of that stuff. They have to figure out by adding more men's teams, how much are those games really worth? They're not worth that much money. So where are we going to be able to make up this money from? That's why it's taking so long. And while I don't think it's the most likely option, to me it seems it still is a possibility that at the end of this, they still don't have enough money to overcome it. It's just, it's just I'm not surprised that it's all money. That's how our world works. But if they don't have enough money to overcome it, then they'll be able to say, we looked at every avenue. We would still be 5, 7, $10 million further in the red because of this. We can't justify that. Teams won't make as much money on ancillary tournament units. We're going to stay at 68. We'll see if that winds up being the court the case when they vote either later this month or in the.

[Matt Norlander]

First week of August, put me in charge, they go back to 64. They're never doing that. Given that that isn't a realistic option, I'll vote for staying at 68. Like you, I, I believe ultimately they will expand. And I could argue what they'll do. I, I think sensibly in, in two, like, I can argue both sides of it. 72 would be the easiest. If you're going to expand. 72 is easier to, to rationalize than 76. And they could at least stand up then and say, hey, we could have gone to 76 or, or 90 million but we kept it at 72. That ain't so bad, is it? And we'll. And you'll. They'll trick some people into saying, well, that ain't so bad, is it?

[Gary Parish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

All right. Or you could go, hey, listen, if we're gonna go. If we're gonna. If we want to get to 76, let's just. Let's not do it in steps. Let's just go there now and take all the beatings we're gonna get right now, because we're gonna take meetings at 72. Then what? We're gonna come back in five years and take another beating at 76. Let's just take all the beatings right now and go to skip where we want to get to and. And move on. So we'll see. I could argue it both ways, but I. I hope common sense sets in at some point. We don't need it. We have never left a national champion out of the NCAA tournament. All right. College football. They needed expansion. I know. I don't know what the perfect number is there, but it wasn't two and it wasn't four. They needed expansion. Yeah, we don't need it on this side. It's unnecessary. We've got a good thing. 96 of people who respond to polls say that we have a good thing. We don't need to mess with it. So just leave it alone. I'm not hopeful or optimistic. I am hopeful.

[Gary Parish]

Braveheart meme. Hold.

[Matt Norlander]

Hold.

[Gary Parish]

We'll see what happens there.

[Matt Norlander]

I am hopeful. I don't know that I'm optimistic, but, hey, just. I'll leave you with this. It's unnecessary. We don't need to fix. We don't need to fix anything because it's not broken. You'll mess it up if you change it. Leave it where it is. Let's move on. You're not going to believe this, but less than two weeks after the house settlement was supposed to fix college athletics, it doesn't appear to have fixed really anything. Nil deals are the ones that were previously valid are getting denied. Coaches are frustrated and accusing each other of lying. Glad we got that back. Fans are confused. Who could have predicted this? We'll talk about it next. First, let's get a word from our partners. This episode is brought to you by Polestar.

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[Matt Norlander]

Offer N7 1625 House settlement was approved by a judge in California. It went into effect on July 1st. It was, I don't know, supposed to, if not fix college athletics, certainly improve the chaos that had overcome it. Well, that ain't happening. Nil deals that were previously valid are getting denied according to coaches who are frustrated by it. Coaches are literally accusing each other of lying and making fake promises. Fans don't know what's going on. People who run collectives are mad. Please provide your thoughts, Norland, on the House settlement that was designed to decrease chaos in college athletics. Really just as I wrote, it's really just bringing different kinds of chaos and confusion to college athletics. They didn't fix anything. They just swapped out their old issues for new issues. That's what I predicted in June and as of July 11, it appears that's where we're at.

[Gary Parish]

So just so we're clear here, and GP and I messaged a little bit about this before the show and then I was offline for the majority of of Thursday here. But I believe you're in part referencing the fact that the College Sports Commission, which all right, it's the off season, so real quick reset on this. If you're if these new the csc, if you know what these acronyms are. Okay, House Case Settlement Billions and Billions of dollars that are going to players, okay? Some of it's back pay, some of it's going to be pay over the next decade for the upcoming academic year. 20.5 million is the most that schools can sit, can give to all of their student athletes. How they, if you can reach that number, many, many schools cannot get to 20.5 million. But the ones that can, they're provided with an intriguing problem because the ones that can have high major football and obviously a very big portion of that 20.5 million that can be given to any and all their, their players, they got to figure out how they're going to divvy that up with their sports and all their players. Okay? So because of that, as a, as part of the House case settlement, with the House case settlement coming to be, a new body, entity came into existence, the College Sports Commission. This is the group that is going to essentially be the cops, be the judge, be the jury when it comes to validating and arbitrating what is allowable to be paid to college athletes moving forward. Now, if you're sitting there thinking, okay, well, this is just going to be more endless lawsuits. Well, yes and no. Because literally the terms of the House settlement that schools had to opt into was you cannot sue the College Sports Commission if you are part of the House settlement and going to be able to do this and spend all this money and give it to all your players, you cannot sue. These are the rules. You're agreeing to it. Litigation is off the table. So with that as background, on Thursday, I guess Wednesday or Thursday, I've lost track of my days. The College Sports Commission sent out a memo saying, oh, and I'm just dumbing this down as basically this. Oh, by the way, almost every single collective that has come into existence in the past three or four years in college athletics, that's not viable anymore, that's not allowable anymore. We're not going to clear that. Because in addition to the College Sports Commission, which has to be the entity that puts these things into action, Deloitte, a separate entity, is the one that is the third party that looks at the viability of name, image and likeness. Neils and is the one that has to say green check yes or red x no. And for the overwhelming majority of collectives now, those are expected to be shot down entirely. And from what I gathered, and I actually talked to a couple of coaches about this on the ground Thursday, there is an element of surprise to this. But this was the whole point of the deal to begin with, because people in college athletics were so frustrated about how, you know, these players were certainly starting to make 1 to $2.54 million that they wanted to regulate the issue. They agreed in the house settlement. These were part of the terms. This is why the House settlement took so long to, to get across the finish line. Well over a year. And so now people are poking their heads up being like, wait a second, we can't have an additional like side kitty of $7 million to give to our athletes. No, you can't. That's the whole deal. So it's, it's creating a ton of genuine chaos, real uncertainty. I'm going to go, I'm going to head over to Nike EYBL here in a short bit, talk to a few more coaches, get some, some of their thoughts on this. But it is, it is interesting. So as to the coaches calling each other lying. JP I don't know what, fill me in because I don't know what that part of it is. But this is a, this is a fast emerging story that has significant ripple effects and it is waking a lot of people up to a reality that I, I think they've been skeptical and cynical to, but really perish, like in actionable ways could become, could become what college sports is, you know, in the, in the years to come here. And, and a lot of people are not okay with it, I'll tell you that much.

[Matt Norlander]

So a lot of this comes out of Big 12 football media day where the coaches were discussing all of this and obviously they're like in that league. Texas Tech is a big story because they have a billionaire booster and buddy, he will pay football players. J.T. toppin, you don't care about nothing, right? Yes. So this has been a topic of conversation where they're at. And I think Kenny Dillingham, the Arizona State football coach is among those who made the point. What's happening right now is coaches are still not all, but certainly some. This is the topic of conversation. Coaches are still, still talking to recruits like the house settlement doesn't exist. So the lying, this is what is happening. Yes, we can get you an nil deal worth $3 million. You just got to come with us. It's like, okay, I'm coming with you. Then you get them there and the nil deal gets denied because they told you it was going to be denied. But, but you're telling the student athletes and the prospective student athletes and their families. Oh no, we'll get around it. We've got a way around it. Right? Well, you, it appears you don't and that's what's causing the frustration and confusion. And yeah it's, it's hilarious to me that coaches some, not all. I never want to paint with a broad brush. There's some coaches out there who like I, I, I, Mark Few is probably five fishing or something or you know, he's probably recruiting but you get the point. Like I don't think Mark GP's got.

[Gary Parish]

GP's got Mark you not even on the road this week.

[Matt Norlander]

No, he's rec get the point. I, I don't think I, I doubt Mark Fu sitting around at, at the dinner table every night like really upset about how the state of college athletics. He doesn't strike me as that way but some coaches are like they're just forever mad about whatever and this, the, the, it, it always like made me smile. The idea that because players used to get nothing legally we now think them getting something is like crazy or, but like they still don't even get what they deserve, I don't believe. And if you want to argue with me, tell me about the NFL franchise, the NBA franchise, the MLB franchise, the MLS franchise, the NHL franchise. As long as we're calling this stuff professional sports, because it is. I mean the, the stadiums look the same, the arenas look the same, the television contracts are similar. This is, this is professional sports. Tell me the professional sport in America where the coaches still make more money than the best players. That's not a thing. In the NBA, the best coaches do not make more money than the best players. In Major League Baseball, the best managers do not make more money than the best players. In the NFL, the best coaches do not make more money than the best players. In college athletics, the best coaches, they make more money than all the coaches make more money than the best players. With few exceptions.

[Gary Parish]

Cooper flag and, and honestly, like, how many, how many is that? I guess it, it might be true.

[Matt Norlander]

Of I corrected my friend McCasley.

[Gary Parish]

I know. I'm just saying like Grant, by the way, I'm the Texas Tech don't keep it going gp. But that came. Texas Tech came up yesterday because I was sitting with, I was sitting with a coach in the Big 12. And we just, they had had a conversation with someone else about all right, what are the top four jobs and what are the bottom four jobs in the Big 12? And they just asked me and I went through it and I gave the list. But as I did the top I go is Texas tech, now the third best job in the Big 12. But when you look at what it is now and the reality of it. And I said, man, I think back to when Texas Tech made the title game in 2019 and the idea that Texas Tech in men's basketball will make the title like in 2019, Texas Tech in a 12 team, Big 12 was a bottom four job, I think, objectively speaking. And now I really came to the conclusion, like I think Texas Tech, when you look at that arena, that fan base and the outrageous financial support I think it might be, it goes Kansas, Arizona, Texas Tech. So to that point with Texas Tech in particular, the money situations have really altered the way a lot of this stuff is seen. And the, the lying that, you know, coach said to me, cheating is back. That's, that's going to become like the overwrought phrase, but it's true. But then another coach, another coach nearby said, well, it wasn't actually ever cheating to begin with. I said, okay, can I get that on the record? Kind of wild.

[Matt Norlander]

We are coaches got fired for this stuff. All right, I know, I know.

[Gary Parish]

But we are heading back to an area.

[Matt Norlander]

Yes, that's where we're going.

[Gary Parish]

Yes.

[Matt Norlander]

All of this was predictable. All of this was predictable. And the point I was trying to make. Yes. There's exceptions to this. John Shire might have made less money than Cooper Flag last year. Grant McCaslin might make less money than JT Top. Whatever. I don't. At BYU, AJ Debiance is probably going to out earn everybody. There are exceptions to this, but largely in college athletics, the coaches still make more than the best players on every campus in America. Largely, that's true. And that is so backwards from what professional sports actually is. So this is the point I was trying to make. If you're a coach on a campus who is still making more money than your best player, you're on the right side of this. All right? You're on the right side of this. And you might not forever be, but you are right now. Zip it. All of this was predictable because the cheating is going to come back. And I'll make this as simple as I can make it. Right now there are boosters, collectives that are clearly making it clear to prospective student athletes, we have money that we are willing to give you. We want to give it to you. We have it. We want to hand it to you to be at our school, all right? Now these people are telling us we can't give it to you. Not legally, not the way we would have done a year ago or even a month ago. But we have it. And we, we Want to give it to you. All right, what do you think happens next? And if you don't know the answer, I'll tell it to you because I have decades, decades of examples of what happens next. When somebody tells rich people who care about college sports that they can't give athletes what they want to give them to get them on their campus, what.

[Gary Parish]

Happens next, they, they give it to them. However, however, however, as I had this exact conversation with two different folks yesterday, there is a difference between how it was and how it can be now. And this is the biggest difference someone brought up. You know, the Sean Miller deandre Ayton story. Remember how much money that was? It was a hundred thousand dollars.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay.

[Gary Parish]

Back even like should have gave Sean.

[Matt Norlander]

A contract extension, honestly.

[Gary Parish]

And obviously Sean denied all that stuff. We know the story there. So even like 10 years ago in college football, you're gonna pay for a quarterback. What was the Cam Newton number? 250.

[Matt Norlander]

All of these crazy stories were always six figures, never seven.

[Gary Parish]

Right? Right. So the point that one coach made to me, and, and they're exactly right. And I completely agree right now, players that are like getting a lot of money, like more than a million dollars, 2 million, 2.5 million. Right. The idea that now like, I don't disagree that they'll try and find ways to, to give them money. However, let's just put it at, let's put it at like 1.5 million that you want to, that's a really high level football player, basketball gp, that's like Walter White level significant money laundering. Like that, like that actually is a problem. Like do you realize how much money $1.5 million is and how you can do that? You're going to really put it in a 1.5 million in a huge duffel bag and give it to him and have that not be traceable for tax purposes. So I agree that this can happen.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

But I'm telling you the way to do it now, it's, that's, hey, that's different than sliding 50k or 100k. 1.5 million is a much bigger deal. And so I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying. And a couple coaches brought this up. If we're going to get to that point where they want to be, where people want to be that flagrant about playing player paying players, they're going to have to get extremely creative. And the penalties obviously are massively harsh if you get caught doing that. So I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying the slope to do it now is not what it was in 2013. That's all.

[Matt Norlander]

They'll figure it out. That's what casinos are for.

[Gary Parish]

And if they. If they do, I can't wait for the stories.

[Matt Norlander]

That's what casinos are for. I had heard stories 20 years ago about coaches in Vegas sitting with AU coaches in casinos, and they're just funneling money through the casino. I heard that 20 years ago. They'll figure this out, and maybe that'll be the thing. Maybe it wasn't.

[Gary Parish]

It wasn't Ocean's Eleven with the duffel bags. It wasn't that level. That's all I'm saying.

[Matt Norlander]

You think nobody's ever dumped a duffel bag?

[Gary Parish]

No, I'm not. I know. I know. I know.

[Matt Norlander]

I can tell you stories about duffel bags in trunks of cars, rental cars. Duffel bags in the trunk. I know. Stories. I got you.

[Gary Parish]

This has the potential for incredible college content, by the way. It just. The. The possible outcomes are just tantalizing.

[Matt Norlander]

Like, yes, it's harder to dump $1.5 million in cash on somebody than it is 75,000. I get that.

[Gary Parish]

And keep. And keep it a secret. Don't forget that part.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I concede the point. Here's what I'm telling you. All that might do is bring the number down, but there's still going to be a number that exists. There's still going to be a coach or a booster out there saying, I can get you more than they're promising you. We just gonna have to put it in a duffel bag. That is. That is it. I bet it's happening right now. Well, it's July 11th. I bet it's already happening 11 days into this. I guarantee you that conversation has already happened between somebody and a prospective student athlete at a school. And so, like, I saw this quote from Mike Gundy yesterday, the Oklahoma State football coach, and He's a Big 12 media day, obviously. And here's what he said. You've got to admit the players are employees. Then you can build collective bargaining. We've all talked about it, but you have to admit they're employees. That has always been the end game, or for a while, been the end game. We all know it. That that sentence more or less has been said on this podcast 50 times over the years. We've talked about this forever. Mike Gundy is now talking about it. When Mike Gundy is the voice of reason, what are we doing? This is a man who, famously in his 40s, was rocking a mullet. All right, When Mike Gundy.

[Gary Parish]

I won't bestow a pejorative opinion on that necessarily. I mean, I wouldn't do it, but I live your life. I think there are other examples you might want to use, but you don't have to necessarily listen, I don't know.

[Matt Norlander]

Mike Gundy, but everything I know about Mike Gundy suggests to me that he shouldn't be the one with the best ideas. All right, so why is Mike Gundy got this figured out better than the people who actually need to figure it out? That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's outrageous. And so maybe it's harder to do, but it ain't impossible. And the cheating is back. Cheating's back. And so is. Did anybody want that? Like even coaches do coaches want this? Because here's the thing. When BYU goes out and signs AJ Debanza, if that happened five years ago, we'd be like, well, we know what.

[Gary Parish]

That was about and now we know what that's about.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. And we just like, well, hey, that's the way. That's the what. Nobody is accusing BYU of cheating. All right? But if that happened five years ago, everybody would. And if it happens next year, everybody will. Do coaches really want a system in place where it, it actually leads to you being called a cheater? For the past few years, it didn't matter where anybody went to school. We all said, well, I mean, this is just the way the sport works. I'm not gonna call Sean Miller a name or Will Wade a name or whomever. This is just the way the sport works. But before the sport worked that way, we were calling Will Wade names and calling Sean Miller names and calling all it. We were ruining reputations. Not because they were the only coaches doing what they were doing because they were the ones that got caught. The other people just didn't get caught. But like largely this is the way college athletics work. And so now we're going right back to that. So now when you are, when BYU signs a five star prospect, next time people are going to yell that it's cheating. And I don't know why that's good for the sport. I, I answered this question a hundred times on radio. For 20 years people would say randomly. So every time a scandal would pop up. So like, what's the, what's the trick to, to cleaning up college athletics? Eliminate the rules. You're not going to clean it up. You're not going to make people stop breaking the rules because there's too Much money at stake. There's a man making $5 million a year. He's on the hot seat. If he doesn't have a good team next year, he's getting fired. He can cheat and get the number one recruiting class in the country and get the contract extension before the season even starts. What do you think he's doing? What would you do? I know what I would do. The same thing most these guys are doing, or at least I don't ever want to say most, Lots, lots of these guys are doing. And I, I just don't understand why we want. We thought it was a good idea to go back to this. Like we, we lived this life. It wasn't fun for anybody. It just, it was just filled with whispers and accusations and that's where we're at right now. I, I know that people didn't like the chaotic nature of just everybody throwing around money everywhere. But like, you haven't heard a serious person call a college basketball coach a cheater in years. But that's coming back. That's coming back very, very soon and people will get fired over this stuff.

[Gary Parish]

We could break down. We're not going to, but we. This is a topic that we could quite literally go 90 minutes on and dive into all the nooks and crannies. But the bottom line on this is that enough people in college sports, coaches included, even though they don't get nearly as much of a say as the others that help make these decisions and change this on a, on the most basic level, because it's a bottom line level here, they were more comfortable with creating a cap and permeating that environment which would induce more rule breaking than they were by having a true and free open market based on let whoever wants to pay these players however much money they are, they didn't want, they didn't want that and the associated chaos and transfer stuff, that's. They didn't want that. So they're going to choose this route instead. And so what's going to happen is now we are going to, for the most part, live in this new phase for however long this takes. And until eventually one day it's just going to take too long. I mean, it's going to take more than a decade. It could take two decades. We will one day get to a point where particularly college football and college basketball get to collective bargaining because that's what it needs. But it is going to be a long walk to that. This is the next phase. We're going to live in it. There's going to be rule breaking. There's. People are going to have major issues with a lot of it. But that is where we're at now. And it will. I'll just, I'll end it on this up. We got back into the conversation yesterday. I was talking to the same coach who asked me to like, rank the Big 12 programs. He said, how much do you think the average Biggie school has in revenue sharing right now? And I said, I don't know the number. But if you had, if you made me guess, if you took all 11 Biggie schools right now and averaged out what, what the revenue sharing will be for the upcoming season, like, I think on average, like, you got to consider the lower end as well. I don't know, like maybe a shade over five, you know, five and a half million overall. I think that's a fair, that's a fair guess. There will definitely be some that are way above that and there will definitely be some that are way below it. And then this coach was saying, you know, I don't have all the numbers for you, but there are, there are, there are schools that have football and like, their number is not going to hit three. So, like, these coaches are just going to sit here and, and, and live with that. I said, I, what's, what's the way around it, other than cheating and breaking the rules? Because here's the thing, and this, this is what the system was decided. And if those, those coaches are employed at places they want football, guess what? The overwhelming majority of people that follow that school, that live in those towns, that go to that university, they want the money to go to football. It's not, it's not the problem of the coaches that are in the Big east or the problem of the coaches that happen to be in other power conferences that might not have football that is nearly as important. It's not their deal, man. It's not their problem. You got it. You got to find another way. You got to figure it out. But this is. I said this would be a thing months ago and I understand that you said it GP as well. You think the SEC is just going to sit there and let everyone outspend them? They might not zero, but as the rules are currently constructed, yeah, they are. They are a tier below this. And now they have to figure out. I was told yesterday that the power conferences, the Autonomy Four, are deliberating. I don't know if this is for real. For real. I'm just, I'm passing along a rumor. This is hilarious to me. They are Deliberating, making a rule where across Division 1 basketball, men's basketball programs aren't allowed to spend more than $5 million in revenue sharing or whatever. And that to me is hilarious. You already have the deck stacked in your favor in so many ways. But there's one thing where it's not, no, no, no, no. We want to be able to spend as much money as we want in all the other sports.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parish]

But in men's basketball, we're putting a flat $5 billion cap. There's no way that flies. But if they, but I'm telling you, there could be a little bit of a groundswell to make that happen. Oh, very fascinating time right now in high major college.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, it's, it's obviously outrageous, except those are the people who have the power to change the rules.

[Gary Parish]

I know, yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

So like here's, you may tell you how that conversation goes. Greg Sankey says, I think throughout the nation, the SEC commissioner, we should have a five million dollar cap on men's basketball. And then the Big east Commissioner and the A10 Commissioner stands up and says, we don't agree with that at all. And they say, cool, well, we'll just do a basketball tournament without you. Like what do you want to do? We'll go, we'll go do something else. And they'll get their way. Because they always get their way. Just a quick story, because this is the way it used to work and this is the way it will work again. There's a certain segment of college coaches who are just going to be wired to cheat anyway. Like it's just, it's their makeup, it's, it's, they have no hesitation about it at all. But there is a different group of college coaches who aren't comfortable with it. But what starts to happen is you convince yourself everybody else is doing it regardless of whether they are or not and it leads to you being willing to do it. So here's like I was on the road one time on a college campus on the day that a five star recruit committed to an out of state school and it was basically down to two schools and I was at the school that lost the recruit and I was with an assistant coach. Like literally the guy was picking me up to take me to dinner and got the news within an hour before that this player is committing. He's an in state five star recruit and he's committing out of state. And I was like, so how you doing? He was really like. And he said, well you know what they did? And I was like, Yeah, I assume, I assume, I assume when you don't get the player. I assumed what they did and then I brought up because literally like a year or two or three earlier they had. It was the exact situation reversed. Yeah, it was a player from that state where that school is that just got your in state guy. And this school had beaten that school for it, that player. So they had went into that school, state and got that player to come to their state. It was the reverse of what had just happened an hour earlier. And I just sort of casually brought it up, like with a, you know, tongue in cheek. I was like, well, you know, you did go into that other state, that school state and get that five star recruit to come to your state. So like I guess it all balances out. And he goes, yeah, but that was different. You know, it's always different. Like you know you want to. And you know what? I believe the truth is I think they cheated to go into that state and get that guy. And then I think that school cheated to come into this state and get that guy. And that is what we used to live with. And that is what's coming back. That, that's. There is no scenario where I'll just use the league you used. SEC coaches are going to sit back and say there's a point guard in the transfer portal. That I think is the difference between me having an incidentally tournament team and maybe having a final four team. But Shaheen Holloway has more money to spend in his budget than I do. So I guess we're just out. That's not happening. All right? That's not happening. I don't want to put a name on it, but text me, I'll tell you the coaches that will not allow that to happen. And so that we're bringing back cheating. And then you know what, we're gonna have investigations and then people are going to get fired over this. People will get caught and the people will get fired and they'll mess up their lives. And it didn't have to be this way. And, and I'm not even saying necessarily that the. Because I know other people would argue that the other way was better, although I do believe the other way was better, if only because it was like transparent. We, we knew we weren't whispering anymore. We kind of knew why AJ went where he went. We understand these things. We know why Dalton Connect transfers to Tennessee. I mean, we, we didn't have to wonder anymore. So I think it's better. But I know not everybody, not everybody agrees the only point I'm making is that this is not a fix and this is a point I'm not making today. It's a point I've made for years and it's a point I made in a column last month. This is not a fix. You were just trading issues for other issues. It's not a fix. You're changing your problems. And I personally think the problems as they are currently constructed are worse because I like that, I like that we didn't have to whisper about everything. We could just sort of laugh about AJ Devance and going to byu. But if that happens, a year from now, you'll have seven coaches texting you saying they're cheating. And I don't know why that's good for anybody.

[Gary Parish]

Don't disagree. We went longer than we thought. Just one more thing because there's, there's a lot here, but there's even. I saw this shared yesterday just on this level, like to, to what we're speaking to here. Like there was a deal. So someone, Dalton Forsyth, who is, who runs a collective, okay, he runs a collective, I guess, with Utah State and he had shared screenshots with some blacked out stuff of identifying information for an nil deal for $2,333 and lays out, you know, in the social media post over a couple of different tweets what the deal was for. And it's, it's a fairly like basic kind of nil deal that maybe, maybe even on its surface, maybe it's, maybe it's a little bit shallow, so to speak, with, with the things associated with it. But we're talking about $2,333 and it's not been cleared. You know, Deloitte, which oversees this, has not said you can, you can even do this. So it's not even necessarily the high end stuff. We are seeing right now that nil deals, particularly associated with collectives, aren't getting pushed through. And it's about to, it's, it's going to be bumpy consistently here over the next year minimum. But I think over the next like month you're going to see a lot of tweets, social media posts, stories, anecdotes come through about just how drastically a lot of this is changing. And it's almost as if people in college athletics kind of like the boat's just rocking like big time. They kind of just got their sea legs a little bit. They got their bearings about them. Like, okay, this is nuts, but I'm, I'm starting to get a sense of what the environment is. And then the direction of the wind changed, and now they're like, what is even allowable anymore? How am I supposed to be. What am I supposed to tell these players? How can I recruit these people? Are the collectives going to cease to exist? Like, starting now, next, you know, tomorrow, next week? What is it gonna. What's it gonna be there? So just. We kind of went tip of the iceberg on this. This is a quickly evolving story, and it's sure to be fought. But just. I'll just wrap it with what I mentioned, you know, 20 minutes ago or whatever. The terms of the House case settlement indicate that if you are. If you are signed on in every school that matters has opted into the House case settlement, okay, so that they can pay their players to revenue sharing. You are not allowed to pursue legal litigation suing any of that as terms of this. And say, well, you say that that was the. The biggest attachment to this entire deal here. So what actions are there really, that you can to. To bring collectives back and be a major player? They're going to try. I don't think they'll succeed. But it is certainly a major thing to watch. And the dynamic of college basketball, and particularly college football, has drastically changed once again.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, before we get out of here, you've mentioned you're in Augusta. That means Peach Jam. I think you flew yesterday. We're in the gym last night. What do I need to know about what you're doing this week?

[Gary Parish]

Week? Well, okay, so GP and I, normally, we typically go together at the same time. Peach Jam is next week, so Nike for, I guess, the first time, really, it has, like, I'm about to bounce here and go down to the gym. The EYBL has, you know, preliminary rounds and games and. And stuff before you get to the championship. That is the Peach Jam. So I'm here to. To. To watch that. And I also saw Adidas, which is up the road in Rock Hill at a fantastic facility. Just wanted to see both. Adidas ends this weekend. Next weekend, when GP comes, Nike will.

[Matt Norlander]

Be the only thing.

[Gary Parish]

And then Under Armour stuff, which is also not that far away. It wraps up in Chicago, so just got some eyes on a few players. I'm gonna go see some more here today. I figure we're an hour in here, so I want to. I want to bounce here pretty quick. But, you know, yesterday was just getting eyes on a few different guys. I'll. I'll provide something of a recap. We'll do something maybe early next week. In advance of you going to Peach Jam. You know, I'm going to go try and see Tyron Stokes today. I presume he's playing. There's a couple of highly ranked, the 2026 class, broadly speaking. Maybe we can even bring Finkelstein on again to talk about this. 2026 is generally down. It's not considered a great class, particularly compared to the ones that we just had. And then 27 is considered actually fairly, fairly solid. They've got, There's a, there's a 27 number one ranked recruit, Baba a lot of ton. I don't know how you pronounce his last name. I'll try and find that out by the end of the day here. Apologies if I butchered his last name. So I'm going to see a couple of highly ranked 27 guys. I did see yesterday. There's a player named Nassir Anderson, who's a 27 guy. Not a good shooter, but an insanely impressive player all around Houston, Kentucky, there were a number of big time players watching him play. He was mighty impressive. Trying to think who else I saw, oh, there's a 2026 point guard. I saw he. Taylor, Kenny, awesome. He's like a borderline top 10 prospect out of Georgia. Really, really good player. Was extremely impressed with him. Nike in general has more top 50 top 100 plays than Adidas, but Adidas had some of its own. Right. So get in, get in some viewing here of Nike today and tomorrow and then I'll scoot back to see a little more Adidas before I fly out Sunday out of Charlotte. So that's just a, that's a highly abbreviated recap. Yesterday was a lot of what we've already talked about on the show, tournament expansion and what the hell's happening with the collectives. And yeah, we'll try and give you a recruiting primer of sorts. I think next week before GP takes off. Maybe get Finkelstein on the show and give you some of the biggest storylines to know.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting to peace, Jen. That's where I discover prospects every year. Yeah, I famously discovered Darius Garland. Yeah. Mickey Mitchell is one of my favorites.

[Gary Parish]

Mickey Mitchell.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. I love discovering people.

[Gary Parish]

You might need to rediscover Mickey Mitchell at this point.

[Matt Norlander]

By the way, where is Mickey Mitchell?

[Gary Parish]

No idea. No idea.

[Matt Norlander]

We have to find Mickey Mitchell.

[Gary Parish]

I do remember. I do remember. We gotta go. I gotta go. But I do remember this is back when it was Yumi Goodman, BORZELLO, all at CBS. So this is like 2012 maybe, maybe 2011, I can't remember. But you're in the gym and just funny now because we know who he is. But you're in the gym for, I don't know, I think a half. And then we're like standing in different parts of the gym. So they're on a group text and you're like, I think I just discovered Kelly Oubre, who was like the fourth ranked prospect in the country at that point, but it was the first time.

[Matt Norlander]

You'D ever seen him. I like showing up where all the recruiting analysts have been there. Like, you know, they've been in Memphis, they've been in Detroit, they've been everywhere. I like showing up in North Augusta and being like, I just discovered. I think I just discovered Kevin Durant. I like discovering people. The Darius Garland was the funniest one. I'm literally sitting with Jeff Capela. He's like a, he's a Duke assistant at the time. And we're just, we were watching another game and then the young kids come out like it's lunchtime. We're supposed to be out of the gym, but we're just sitting there and we're talking. I see this little kid, like a little bitty guy and he's just going past everybody. I'm like, jesus Lord, who is this kid? And Cable's like, that's Darius Garland. He's from Nashville. You know him? I was like, I just discovered him. He's like, yeah, he's top 10 player in the class. I was like, I, I can see that. You don't have to tell me. These eyes have been focused on prospects for decades.

[Gary Parish]

There we go.

[Matt Norlander]

I can't wait to see who I discover next week.

[Gary Parish]

I'm looking forward to it as well.

[Matt Norlander]

It might be somebody you just mentioned.

[Gary Parish]

It could be. It could be.

[Matt Norlander]

I might discover somebody you saw yesterday. I'm looking forward to that. Have fun in the gym today. Tell those folks that make those, those nice peaches. I said hello.

[Gary Parish]

I will.

[Matt Norlander]

I'm sure that I'll see them next week.

[Gary Parish]

That's a show.

[Matt Norlander]

That's a show. Let's get out of here. I ain't got time for this nonsense. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, S.C. shouts to Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Hook Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching and listening the Island College Basketball podcast. If you're not subscribed, please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcast, Apple, Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. Don't ever forget that needs to be reflected in the comments. So do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care. Foreign.

[Gary Parish]

Season of CBS's new hit NCIS Origins Federal Agent is now streaming. NIS. The hell's that? Naval Investigative Service. We go where the evidence it takes us. We got this 88% fresh on rotten tomatoes.

[Matt Norlander]

You don't see folks trying to affect change, but here you are, ready to got a body waiting for us. Give welcome to the team.

[Gary Parish]

NCIS Origin Season 1 now streaming on Paramount Plus.