Our interview with Dusty May: What it's like to build a powerhouse, the Michigan St. rivalry and what he misses about FAU

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Eye On College Basketball – Interview with Dusty May (March 12, 2026)

Main Theme:
In this bonus episode, Matt Norlander of CBS Sports interviews Michigan head coach Dusty May, diving deep into Michigan’s powerhouse season, behind-the-scenes of a new docuseries, roster building in today’s climate, the Michigan State rivalry, and what May misses from his FAU days. The conversation offers honest, inside access to what it takes to build and sustain an elite program in the current college basketball landscape.

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Episode Structure & Key Topics

1. Inside the Upcoming Docuseries (“Made for March”)

[02:32–09:26]

• Dusty May's Involvement & Reaction:

  • Chose to participate due to confidence in Religion of Sports’ quality and felt it would be good for Michigan’s culture, recruiting, and storytelling.
  • Admits the adjustment to constant cameras was tough, but the professionalism of the crew made it easier.
  • “It was a tough adjustment at first... just being miked up and having cameras around all the time was an adjustment.” (Dusty May, 04:57)

• Expectations for the Series:

  • Emphasizes the personalities and humanity of Michigan’s players.
  • Teases unseen aspects and moments, like a touching story featuring player Yaxel and his mother.
  • “Our guys… have such good dudes in our locker room… it shows their personalities, it shows what big hearts they have.” (Dusty May, 08:47)
  • “I think you see the joy and the excitement that they can still come with, with playing ball.” (Dusty May, 09:08)

• Notable Fact: Documentary follows both Michigan and Kansas through their seasons, giving viewers parallel inside looks.

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2. Michigan’s Season, Roster Philosophy, & Standout Players

[09:26–22:58]

• Yaxel – Star Player & College Basketball’s Unselfish Leader

  • Discussion of Yaxel’s NBA draft deliberations and eventual return.
  • May recounts a story about Yaxel refusing to pad stats:
    “Our guys are trying to get him to 30, and he’s… I don’t care. …just let’s get the ball to Oscar, get the ball to one of these young guys. How many players would do that as their teammates are urging them to shoot more?” (Dusty May, 11:32)

• Impact of Injuries & Depth Management

  • Plans to redshirt LJ due to injury, drawing parallels with past strategies at FAU.
  • May emphasizes the luxury of Michigan’s depth:
    “You have the deepest, most reliable roster in the country… I genuinely believe that.” (Matt Norlander, 16:41)

• Roster Building Approach:

  • May credits both careful decision-making and luck.
  • Brutal honesty in recruitment conversations:
    “We’re brutally honest. Even at times this year where we’ve had agents say, ‘Hey, you probably shouldn’t say that to them.’ Our response: ‘No, we have to coach them when they’re here.’” (Dusty May, 17:43)
  • Looks for unselfish players willing to share the spotlight:
    “If you want to be the guy, don’t come here… we’re pretty stubborn, a team that shares the ball.” (Dusty May, 18:28)

• Mahrez Johnson’s Development:

  • Praises Mahrez for rapid improvement and team-first mentality.
  • “He’s such a great teammate and he’s… such a machine every single day.” (Dusty May, 19:42)
  • Funny note: Mahrez takes everything literally, so May can’t really joke with him! (21:08)

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3. Culture, Team Rituals, & May’s Evolution as a Coach

[21:11–27:27]

• Michigan’s Viral Postgame Interviews/Bit:

  • Originated by accident, with Mahrez staring down the camera; now, the team leans into it for fun.
  • May tried to imitate Mahrez’s “mean mug.”
    “I was just trying to look like my mean mug had a little bit of bite… It’s hard for me to keep a straight face ever.” (Dusty May, 22:44)

• Personal Reflection:

  • May stays grounded, says being Michigan’s third assistant would have fulfilled all his dreams as a college grad.
  • “If you had told me that I was the third assistant of Michigan right now, I would say I've achieved my goals in life.” (Dusty May, 23:34)

• On Winning Big at Michigan:

  • Stresses constant focus on improvement, with little time to reflect during the season.
  • “That’s why I think these documentaries… are going to be cool, because they’re going to allow us to enjoy this later on because you really can’t enjoy it now.” (Dusty May, 24:57)

• Simple Celebrations:

  • Celebrated the regular season title with seniors, family, and a golf simulator at a flat in Ann Arbor.

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4. Comparing Michigan & FAU, Navigating College Basketball (Past & Present)

[27:27–31:09]

• What May Misses About FAU:

  • The “innocence” and basketball focus at a lower-profile program.
  • “Now, I don’t have time to go on the court now for two or three hours… just because of the media demands and the demands outside of just coaching.” (Dusty May, 27:27)
  • Still tries to enjoy Michigan’s beautiful summers when possible.

• How College Basketball Could Improve:

  • Calls for real, modern leadership—forward-thinking, not stuck in the past.
  • Notes disparity among programs and emphasizes need to keep players included in future changes.
  • “We’ve got to find some form of leadership over college basketball… at the end of the day, [some schools] generated $300 million in revenue. …There just has to be a long term plan as opposed to just continuing to pivot with, just facing the latest obstacle.” (Dusty May, 29:20)

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5. Transfer Portal, College Basketball’s Changing Landscape

[31:09–34:24]

• Thoughts on Transfer Portal Timelines:

  • Recognizes it's problematic but finds ways to stay positive, highlighting that the portal’s existence helped Michigan build its roster quickly.
  • Acknowledges reality: tampering happens; agents play a big role.
    “The portal’s never closed… you’d probably have to tap their agents’ phones to know” (Dusty May, 32:06)
  • Expresses preference for earlier portal opening to help struggling teams get a head start.

• Team Culture Rules:

  • May's program has very few rules, but two core tenets are:
    “No complaining, no excuses, no whispering.” (Dusty May, 34:13)

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6. The Michigan–Michigan State Rivalry & Roster Construction Narratives

[34:24–37:44]

• On Michigan State:

  • Respect for the rival’s sustained success:
    “It’s a standard that I don’t think anyone will be able to live up to… There’s no love lost whatsoever.” (Dusty May, 34:53)
  • Cites video prep using MSU’s transition offense as a teaching point for Michigan’s own growth.

• Portal vs. High School Recruiting:

  • Challenges the narrative Michigan only uses the portal while MSU sticks to high school.
  • Calls for more accurate reporting of NIL spending.
    “I’m ready for the IRS to come in and open up the books and show what people spent versus what the spin zone has said they spent.” (Dusty May, 37:30)

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7. Comparing Final Four Paths – FAU vs. Michigan

[37:58–40:00]

• What’s Harder – Michigan or FAU?:

  • FAU run was hard due to less talent, but Michigan comes with higher expectations and “fear of not living up.”
  • “Everyone’s job is hard, it’s just hard in different ways.” (Dusty May, 39:01)

• Closing on the Docuseries:

  • May’s excited for both the Michigan and Kansas features.
  • Norlander and May agree: allowing inside access is a legacy gift for teams and fans.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you want to be the guy, don’t come here… we’re pretty stubborn, a team that shares the ball.”
  — Dusty May (18:28)

• “No complaining, no excuses, no whispering.”
  — Dusty May (34:13)

• On Yaxel’s stats: “He won’t shoot it. And he’s like, I don’t care.”
  — Dusty May (11:32)

• “We’re brutally honest… We have to coach them when they’re here.”
  — Dusty May (17:43)

• “It’s a healthy rivalry. There’s no love lost whatsoever.”
  — Dusty May on Michigan State (34:53)

• “I miss the innocence of that level, of the ball being so much more of what we do on a daily basis now.”
  — Dusty May on FAU (27:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------|:--------------:| | Opening & Docuseries Overview | 02:32–09:26 | | Player Stories & Roster Building | 09:26–22:58 | | Team Culture & Coaching Growth | 21:11–27:27 | | Comparing Michigan & FAU | 27:27–31:09 | | Transfer Portal & CBB Landscape| 31:09–34:24 | | Michigan State Rivalry & NIL | 34:24–37:44 | | Final Four Comparison, Closing | 37:58–end |

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Overall Episode Tone

• Insightful, candid, and occasionally light-hearted
• May is open about the challenges and joys of leading a powerhouse, with pragmatic optimism about college basketball’s future
• Norlander prompts both reflection and energetic, in-the-moment commentary

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Recommended for:
College basketball fans seeking insider access, coaches aiming to learn roster management, and anyone interested in the evolving NCAA landscape.

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Transcript

[Matt Norlander]

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[Dusty May]

Hey, Sal.

[Matt Norlander]

Hank.

[Dusty May]

What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so EAS too easy.

[Matt Norlander]

Think something's up?

[Dusty May]

You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day.

[Matt Norlander]

It sounds like Carvana just makes it

[Dusty May]

easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[Matt Norlander]

Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Ugh. Could this vintage store be any cuter? Right.

[Dusty May]

And the best part, they accept Discover.

[Matt Norlander]

Accept Discovery in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer.

[Dusty May]

Oh yeah, huh?

[Matt Norlander]

Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby, get with the times. Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

[Dusty May]

These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen.

[Matt Norlander]

You're getting another bonus episode, folks. Dusty May joining the show today and we obviously, if you listen to the show, you take it in. You know, we don't do a lot of coaches interviews. We know a majority of our audience comes to the POD because they like the dynamic between me and gp but self dusty, these are really great talkers. Informative coaches. They don't filter themselves too much on the record. And the fact that they both said yes to these documentaries. This docu series here with Religion of Sports, you know, teaming up with Paramount plus which is producing the series going to air on cbs, I wanted to highlight, you know that. And also we're getting them right on the precipice of going into the postseason. So I hope you enjoy this. We're trying to give you a little bit more on the pod side here and there, vary up the content. A reminder on the Made for March series. It's going to debut on Paramount plus on Saturday, April 4th. And when it happens, it's going to be giving you inside access on Kansas and Michigan within the same episodes. There's going to be four of them. The first one will be April 4th at noon Eastern. The second one will be Sunday, April 5th at from 4:30 to 5:30 Eastern. And then on that same day, the third episode, 5:30 to 6:30 Eastern, will be part three. The fourth one will be after the season. Who's to say whether Kansas, Michigan, both, neither one of them makes the final four. Saturday, April 18th from one to two Eastern will be the fourth edition of on CBS and always streaming on Paramount Plus. So with that being said, let's get to me and Dusty joined by Dusty May of the Michigan Wolverines. And as you heard with our interview with Bill Self, Michigan is part of a four part docu series that's going to air on Paramount plus, produced by Paramount plus also will air on CBS. First episode Saturday, April 4, noon Eastern and then Sunday there will be back to back episodes that evening. The finale, the fourth part, will air on Saturday, April 18, first on Paramount plus and on CBS as well. And these docu series are going to follow Kansas and Michigan at the same time. So dating all the way back to the preseason, they'll kind of intersplice each team's journeys along the way. We've got, you know, 75, 80% in the can, but there's still a lot to be, a lot to be determined. Dusty, thanks for joining the show here on Ion College basketball. How you doing and what has it been like for the past four months to have cameras around you documenting it? How much, how much do you notice it and why did you agree to do the project?

[Dusty May]

Oh, that's a loaded question. The people with Religion of Sport, we felt like they were the best in the business when it comes to things like this. And we'd seen their work and felt honored that they would, they would select Us. And also we felt like it'd be great for our guys. We have a team of great human beings with personality that get along really, really well. So we thought it would. It would show the culture of our program and it would be great for messaging and recruiting as far as players and potential donors and anyone connected to Michigan. But it was. It was a tough adjustment at first. Just having. Being miked up and having cameras around all the time was an adjustment. Um, but because of the quality of people working with us, we. We were able to let our guard down and just be ourselves. So it was. It was fun for our guys. You know, I'm. I'm excited to see it because things go so fast. It's almost like it's a. It's a scrapbook or photo album where it kind of will remind you of some of the things you went through that. That. That aren't on in your working memory.

[Matt Norlander]

I got a couple other questions about just the process and having a crew with you, but I have to know, did you get an unexpected call? Maybe didn't even recognize the number, Text her phone and be like, dusty, this is Tom Brady. Because Tom has. He basically is behind the whole religion of sports production company. There's. So I'm wondering if you had a personal plea, so to speak, from. From Brady himself to get you over the finish line on this.

[Dusty May]

No, not at all. I actually met Tom this, this earlier this year. Maybe his niece or someone was playing at a volleyball game here on campus. And it was also football, one of the big football games. So he came around the building. His son is a basket. And yeah, so he went to show in the basketball facility. We visited for a little bit, and it was early in the year, and he said, are you guys any good this year? And I said, I think we're. We're first in the metrics and we're third overall. He said, oh, wow. So I don't think he follows college basketball that closely, but at least at that point he didn't.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, fair enough. When you said it took a while to get used to, was it like, were the cameras in there pretty much every game? I. I saw the crew. I was out there, obviously, at Players Era in Las Vegas, and you guys were dominant there, so that's when I first actually saw it. But how do you get used to just kind of being yourself, players being themselves, and, and was this an every game thing, or would they pop in for a little bit here, give you a couple weeks off and pop in? What. What has been the the routine, the cadence, so to speak.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, that was it. They would give us a few weeks off. So they were in players there. I know they met us in Oregon. They've been at a few home games, they've been at practices. And then when they're here, they're interviewing our players. They came out to my house, they've ridden home with me a few times just to get different things. It's amazing how much goes into just maybe a minute of whatever they're going to show, you know, what all is left on the cutting room floor. But like I said, because we got to know them as people and you know, we now, you know, we know them all. So they're. They're just kind of around and it doesn't feel awkward like it did from, from the start.

[Matt Norlander]

I want to get to the season overall and what you've done on the floor. But one more question. General curiosity on the documentary, like, I know you haven't seen any of it yet or probably any of it. What do you think people might not know about the team or your players that, you know, players, you talked about it with the producers or you know, they film? Just you've been a high profile team, top of the polls, near the top of the polls the entire season. But there are elements to your team and things about this season that haven't been seen for public consumption yet that will be a part of this documentary. So a little bit of a teaser or trailer if we could. What do you think will be involved in this that people might not know about?

[Dusty May]

Matt, I saw a brief trailer before it even went to their editor just because I was curious of what it was going to look like. And I was blown away at just at our guys. I mean, we have such good dudes in our locker room and it shows their personalities, it shows what big hearts they have. And that's probably the coolest part is, you know, you don't really know these guys you're watching on the court, play in the NBA, ncaa, whatever the case, night and night out. And I think our guys are going to represent Michigan really, really well in our basketball program and they have a blast every day. So I think you see the joy and the excitement that they can still be. They can still come with, with playing ball.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's going to. I'm not going to spoil it. I don't know if it's. I don't know if Yaxel has talked too much about it publicly yet, but there's going really cool Moment with Yaxel and his mother back in New Jersey. That's really, really cool. That, that I figure will be a part of the documentary. If it's not, I'll reveal it later.

[Dusty May]

Another teaser, man. It's like those Walking Dead shows before that. Before.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, that's right. Very, very cool moment there. Very, very fun. Let's, let's, let's talk y axel a bit. I want to talk about your whole team. I'll talk about the season, but you know, as we do the show, getting ready to go into the Big Ten tournament. He's a first team all American, you know, he's the Big Ten player of the year in my opinion. I think that will out when the league awards come out later this week. He has been dusty. I can say it because I'm the writer, reporter, the talking head here. To me he's the most important and the key piece on, on what has just been an incredibly impressive team. But you and I even talked. I remember last off season where I was just tracking it from afar. I wondered if he was going to go in the draft. There was a lot of buzz. He was going in the draft and you were like, tell me, tell me why you think that. Why, why is he not going to come to. Why, why is he not coming to Michigan? Norlander. No, tell, tell me why Yaxel isn't coming to Michigan. I was like, I don't know that for sure, but it feels like it might go that way. You had faith and belief the whole time and lo and behold, you've got one of the best players in college basketball. Tell me what it's been like to coach this guy for the past near year.

[Dusty May]

It's been amazing to see where he, where he started to where he is now. And I'm with you. I can't imagine him not receiving all the, the Big Ten player from the media, from, from whoever. But the, the crazy part about that, when you were asking me those questions, I almost felt like I was being naive and I was being duped. And basically Yak said, I mean, he told me repeatedly that, you know, unless I can get a 100% guarantee in the first round, I'm coming to Michigan. And so I thought that was very fair. And I also know how difficult it is to get a first round guarantee anywhere now just because that, that the culture of those seemed to have changed. They just don't happen very often. And then even well before he announced he still was going through the workout process, he called me and I was actually at Eric Pastrana's wedding in Napa Valley and stepped out. Luckily, I was early on a wine tasting and stepped out, and we spoke, and he just said, I really think Michigan will be good for me. I want to come there. I want to, you know, so I want you to plan on me being there. I can't make it official yet, but maybe. He said, I'm 99%. And I said, man, this. This is great. You know, this is. This helps me, because now we start planning accordingly and getting our ducks in a row. And, man, he's just been so unselfish. He's been a joy to be. And, you know, Coach Boynton told the story the other day where I think we're at Maryland, and he has 29 points, and it's still. There's still several minutes left in the game, maybe seven or eight minutes left in the game. And our guys are trying to get him to 30, and he's. And he won't shoot it. And he's like, I don't care. Like, all year we would be up 30 or 40 points. And Elliot is someone that, like, is like, hey, yeah, if you get a couple of baskets here, keep your, you know, keep your numbers. Like, you'll be national player of the year as long as your numbers support it. And he's just like, I don't care about that stuff. I don't care. No, just let's, you know, get the ball to Oscar, get the ball to one of these young guys. And how many players would. Would do that as their teammates are urging them to shoot more and do more because they really don't care about anything as far as the individual stuff.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I know. He's super impressive and eager to see what he does here. As the stage gets bigger, the lights get brighter.

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[Matt Norlander]

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[Dusty May]

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[Matt Norlander]

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[Dusty May]

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[Dusty May]

That's, that's the plan. Obviously plans can always change, but you know, just with the timing and him being Such a valuable player, you know, I can't imagine it reminds me a lot of the Nick Boyd situation from, from our year two at fau where he had had the broken foot and just didn't feel like he could play up to his standards a full season. And so it was like, hey, then let's just get ready for next year. And this gives you a chance to grow and develop. So next year he'll play scout team in practice and he'll get ready and I think it'll help his long term development. And then also he doesn't have to share the court with, with Cadou as much next year. What a luxury to have those two guys as your point guards where, you know, that's a good problem to have. But so next year he'll be able to still learn from la, they learn a lot from each other. So he'll be able to learn from them, he'll be able to develop his game. And I think the plan would just be bring him back for a 100% healthy following year and he'll be, he'll be even better than ever because of the amount of work he's going to put in.

[Matt Norlander]

All right, that's good context. I appreciate that. What I was getting to was you have had, I've said this on the pod plenty of times, I genuinely believe like you have the, the deepest, most reliable roster in the country or at least you did when you were nine deep, where really any of those nine guys, any combo of five, could probably be on the floor in the final two minutes of a one possession game. Some of those guys have been mainstays for sure, but obviously you've got some portal inclusions. And then Trey McKinney, one of you know, a local product that said, yeah, I want to go play for the maze in blue. How did you and your staff do this again for a second consecutive season? You really did a good job in year one and then you had to kind of remake this again. What goes into that, you know, allow viewers and listeners to really understand in a bite sized portion, I guess, how you're able to get a roster like this and make it work and the effort and what intel goes into that because as you well know, I mean, it's extremely hard to do and unfortunately and unavoidably across the sport we see where it doesn't work time and time again.

[Dusty May]

Well, to quote Annie Dukes, the, the, our success is determined by the quality of our decisions and luck. And so I think we've, we've had both, you know, It. We've tried to recreate all of our processes. All of, you know what. What's went into all of our decisions, even back to fau, when you look at the roster we had, and it's just. It's. It's odd because there might be four guys that it. You know, this spot, we're going to bring in these three guys or these four guys and maybe the other three that we didn't get or we chose not to take go other places, and they don't have much success, and then the one comes here. So now we're like, are we lucky, or is the staff doing that good of a job? As far as development, as far as the culture piece and putting the right personalities together, I do think that's part of it. We, in the recruiting process, we're brutally honest. Even at times this year where we've had agents say, hey, you probably shouldn't say that to them. And our response is no. Well, we have to coach them when they're here. And so we're gonna. We're gonna paint a picture that we think is very, very accurate. We're not gonna embellish it, but we're also not gonna downplay it either. We're gonna. We're gonna give the recruits exactly what we can see at this moment in time and. And build from there. And so I think that's a big part of it, too. But, you know, we. We preach unselfishness. If you want to be the guy, don't come here. If you want the ball in your hands, if you want all the usage, don't come here. Because we just. We're pretty stubborn as far as we. That shares the ball, passes the ball, and then covers for each other on defense and offense. So there aren't a lot of guys in this climate that will look you in the eye and say, I'm fine with me playing a smaller role with the expectations of winning a little bit more.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. And to me, that feeds down from Yaxel, who has really good numbers but could easily have even bigger ones. And he shares the wealth for sure. Talk to me about Mahrez Johnson. When I say Mahrez Johnson, what comes to mind?

[Dusty May]

I mean, one of my favorite players I've ever coached because of his approach and his work ethic, and Rez because he's. He's such a great teammate and he's. He's such a machine every single day. We decided that we're going to ride through any and every mistake he makes as long as there's growth that comes with it. So there's been a lot of give and take where we've wanted him to. First of all, to him play with a die and Yaxel we knew was going to be difficult. And so there was going to be some bumps in the road, some, some rough stretches. So you know him in the short roll, I think against Wake Forest, he turned it over three or four times. And the next morning he's on the court with the staff, first thing, recreating those specific situations, trying to learn and grow from it. And he's went from a, when he got here this summer to being an energy guy that could occasionally, you know, he's elite, the dunker running the floor, great player. But now he's making threes. I mean, to be honest, sometimes in the back of my mind I'm mad when he turns one down. I'm that confident in his three point shot. His decision making and playmaking continues to improve. And so when you have the work ethic and the level of seriousness that Mrez has, you tend to get better. And he's someone that's a lot different than me. I mean, he's very literal. I can't use any sarcasm. I don't joke. I can't joke around a lot with him because he's, he's so literal. And so for, for him to do what he's done for our program, I mean, we wouldn't be here without us adopting his personality.

[Matt Norlander]

As far as toughness, you know what makes that so interesting is that we've got the post game interview situation that's become an ongoing bit. I need that to continue the rest of the month. We'll get to that in a second. But I guess for, you know, non Michigan fans watching, listening that aren't familiar, like how did this start? And like has he become self aware just staring into the camera as this happens? I love that this accidentally became a thing. But what's the origin story here?

[Dusty May]

I have no idea. I think it's the Thunder that made this team celebration and post game interviews in. In vogue or mainstream. And I think it's kind of cool. It's like the starting lineup. Like why call out a starting LINEUP Whenever your 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th men are so valuable to your team? And so the same thing with the post game celebrations and, and look, we're. It's a different era now. Like our program. This is a partnership. Like this is a give and take partnership. We, these guys aren't subjects to us. Like we have to work well together. We both, both have to achieve what needs to happen, which is they have to achieve their personal goals. We have to win while doing it a certain way. And so back to that team celebration. I think it's great that they, they, they celebrate together. They, they share the success. And just one game, everyone's goofing around and he's staring at the camera and it kind of became a thing and he's ran with it and then, you know, the game, he was being interviewed. I thought it'd be ironic if I, if I return the favorite.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, except you had, you had the look of death there, by the way. So you really, what were you tapping into in that moment, Dusty?

[Dusty May]

I was just trying to look like my mean mug had a little bit of bite. I'm pretty jovial now. I like to laugh and it's, it's hard for me to keep a straight face ever. So I was just trying to channel my inner Marez.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. I wondered if you were trying to channel like inner junior year in college Dusty there. I don't know if maybe there was something, something going on.

[Dusty May]

Dusty in college as a junior. Those, all of those memories have been deleted from the memory bank, those things. Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

Hold on, hold on. If I told 20 year old you, this is where you would be right now? I know that's a common question that maybe reporters rely too much on, but I am curious with your, with you specifically. We go back to Bloomington. It's only been what, 14, 15 years since you were getting ready to graduate college? Of course. Yeah. How different are you now versus then? And what would you have said?

[Dusty May]

That I'm the same person at heart. But if you had told me that I was the third assistant of Michigan right now, I would say I've achieved my goals in life. So yeah, I wouldn't have believed you. I would have thought you were, you were lying. But I'm the same, almost identical as a person. My habits and, and daily routines are much better than they were then. But yeah, I still live life the same way.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. What does it feel like to be at, at a program, running a program with the Michigan team that's 29 and 2? We are having an incredible year in college basketball. I maintain this is the best season for the sport we've had in a decade plus when you look at the quality, the talent, the depth, a variety of things. We've got an undefeated team that's one state south of you, and we almost never get that going into the postseason for you. What have you thought? Have you given Yourself time in the midst of this to kind of just reflect a little bit, talk with your wife or your kids about what it is to, to be a part of this because it's, it's ridiculous what your team's been able to do and it hasn't been infallible. You, you know, you had Wisconsin get hot and beat you in your own place. I get that. And then you played a really tough Duke team and couldn't get it on the road into neutral. But to the most part here, like you're pacing toward being one of the better teams to get a one seed and recent memory. Take us into what it feels like to be a part of something like this on the precipice of the games that mean the most.

[Dusty May]

Man, to be honest, it doesn't feel any different than a normal year. You're just, you're always looking at the next thing, the next game, the next scout. And then, you know, in today's climate, the day your season's over, you better be ready to go. And so you don't, you know, that's why, that's why I think this, these documentaries and things are going to be cool because they're going to allow us to enjoy this later on because you really can enjoy it now. And as soon as you start to feel good about yourself with the quality of players in our league and teams in our league, you're going to get knocked out. And then now you're in a one and done scenario where we've got to get back to where our habits are elite and we're mitigating risk, we're eliminating the mistakes that can cost you a game because we don't have seven game series to figure stuff out. Every single possession of every single game is win or go home. And so, yeah, there's not a lot of time to reflect other than when we simply try to reconstruct what we did well and maybe try to avoid some of the mistakes that we made.

[Matt Norlander]

Did. What did you, the team do to celebrate winning a regular season championship though, and standalone and kind of doing it definitively. I'm just curious if you were, I'm sure you allowed to reflect or celebrate for at least an hour or two in recent days. Dusty?

[Dusty May]

No, our seniors and my son Charlie's in that group. They, they held a little reception in downtown Ann Arbor in a, in a, in a flat that's used for banquets and things like that. And there's a golf simulator in there. And so we just went, you know, will Cheddar's mom hosted it, went with the seniors and their families and then all of our players stopped through and the loved ones around us stopped through and so we ate some food and then I jumped on the simulator and took some hacks and golf's a lot more fun when I have to chase my ball into the rough.

[Matt Norlander]

Average round for you is what on the course I don't play.

[Dusty May]

I play once, once a year or twice a year.

[Matt Norlander]

You're terrible. Okay, great.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, I'm terrible. The great actually at fau, one of, one of a donor that became good friends with with gave me the greatest compliment. He said, you're good enough to play with good players. You can at least hit it straight. That's all you need to be able to do and keep up. So I can, I can hit it straight and keep up most of the time.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay. Speaking of fau, I remember writing a few things about you when you were, you were there and you loved the fact that you could literally ride your bike to the office, but you can't do that anymore. Is that the one? Is that the only thing that you miss about your previous job is you just, you don't have that weather and the ability just to take a quick little 10, 15 minute scoot down to the office. Office?

[Dusty May]

No, man, I miss the innocence of, of that level of the ball being so much more of, of what we do on a daily basis now. I don't have time to go on the court now for two or three hours in the mornings with, with, with a red shirt freshman. I don't have time to stay after practice for an hour and a half with a couple young guys to, to, you know, do some small sided games or whatnot just because of the media demands and the, the demands that outside of just coaching, I definitely miss the weather. But the summers in Michigan and this is how I sold it to Anna, that in, in Florida during the season, we don't have time to enjoy how nice it is in South Florida in January and February because we're so busy. We're, we're in the gym where it's, it's 70 degrees all over the country and then once the season ends here, it's beautiful every day. And I actually rode my bike for the first time yesterday, so it was 58 and sunny and so I was shocked that my tires weren't flat from, from being in the garage all winter and rode it in for the first time. So it was a good morning, it was a beautiful day.

[Matt Norlander]

How about that? As a coach, that's operating at the top of the sport right now may well have a second Final Four trip on the resume in a matter of a few weeks. I do want to ask you a little bit to expand on what you were tapping into right there. What do you think is something that is either fixable or improvable About Men's Division 1 college basketball specifically, that could be done in the next year or two. Like you and I both know, there's no shortage of things coaches will find any reason to gripe and some of it is very legitimate. But I'm wondering, as you look around and see, okay, I wish this wasn't like this and I wish that wasn't like that. Here's a way that we can actually, I think, make things better for, for all sides. Anything that comes to mind, anything that you've talked with your staff or other, other friends in the, in the business about that you think could improve college basketball and set it up to be in a better place. As we get to the back half

[Dusty May]

of the decade, I think we've got to find some form of leadership over college basketball, some form of leadership over football. And they figure out, and the forward thinkers, not an old coach who liked it the way it was back in 1968 when the players were amateurs or whatever the case, but someone that actually has invested time in researching MLS or the, the soccer leagues, the football leagues, and figuring out what's best. Because at the end of the day, Tennessee, I just read an article last week where Tennessee athletic department generated 300 million in revenue. And, and now you're, you're factoring in, I don't know who has the least amount of revenue. So you have these X number of schools that are printing money and then the other 320 are losing money. Like what is the solution when you're trying to make sure things are fair and equitable for that discrepancy where one's 300 million. So I think there just has to be like a long term plan as opposed to just continuing to pivot with, just facing the latest obstacle. Because the way it is now, look, it's great college basketball is. It's never been more talented. The academic piece, we've got to make sure that these guys are getting their degrees, whether that's through some form of partnership. But I don't think we're at a stage where we can ever not include the players and whatever decision is next and you can say whatever you want. We don't make those decisions. Like they have to be involved and there has to be some give and take. But man, I love coaching these guys every single day. I love being on a college campus. It's something different for everyone. And I feel very, very grateful to be a part of college basketball. Hopefully we can find some long term solutions because it's, it's the best it's ever been as far as product.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, it has. I, I completely agree with that. And the juxtaposition between that is, is wild to me. How the games and the actual product, what we are seeing on the floor, I mean, it's just been incredible. But then all the stuff away from that in the forthcoming, you know, portal cycle, all of that is going to be another deal altogether. On that note, they have bumped back the official portal entry date that will not come open until after the end of the final Four. A lot of people asked for that, that some coaches don't like that because they don't like the idea of just kind of like behind the scenes for two, three, four weeks. Like we all know the deal here. Why are we waiting? Where do you land? Are you, are you in favor of the portal waiting to open until, you know, every team has concluded its season.

[Dusty May]

Last year it opened after the sweet 16. Correct.

[Matt Norlander]

I want to say last year it opened after the. I could be wrong. I want to say last year it opened after the first weekend and the year before, it opened after selection Sunday. So they bumped it a week back a year ago and now it's been bumped back for the entire tournament starting this year.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, obviously, and even last year was so different because guys were waiting to go in so they'd make sure they got their last nil payments and collective payments. And there's. There's so many things that aren't ironed out. It's. Look, the agents, you know, I have assistant coaches who are interviewing for jobs right now. And I don't look at it as they're being tampered with. They're. They're trying to improve themselves. And so, so the agents, I mean, Mario Criswell said the portal's never closed. I mean, someone asked me about our players coming back and I said you'd probably have to tap their agents phones to know that. I don't know. No one knows. I mean, I. Countless players signed in il contracts with one school last year and a week later signed one twice as big with another school just because they could. So. So I don't know what the solution is, but I'm going to choose to look at it positively that, you know, we wouldn't be able to be where we are right now if the current landscape is what it is two years ago. It would take longer to build a program. And so, I don't know. I mean, I would think earlier the better, because a lot of these kids know they don't want to stay. And the teams that aren't winning, they should be handicapped a little bit to go ahead and start their recruiting processes above board and so they can go ahead and get on with trying to build a team. And then the teams that are still playing, I mean, someone on the staffs are, are huge. We have five assistant coaches and a head coach. Surely you can devote a little bit of time to recruiting as you're still preparing to play in the Sweet 16 or Final Four, whatever the case. Does that answer your question?

[Matt Norlander]

To a certain extent. It's, it's. I got you a couple more and then I'll let you go here.

[Dusty May]

But, man, how I live is like, where whatever you say it is. Okay, let's figure that out.

[Matt Norlander]

That's true. Yeah, I, I, and I'll, I'll just, I'll speak for on Dusty's behalf here. I find what he just said to be very true just in our conversations, but both on record and on background, this guy is not one that is, that is liable whatsoever to shoot a text or send a call and just complain and complain or about anything. So. No, I, I completely agree about that. By the way, I think you.

[Dusty May]

We actually have a. We, we actually have very few rules in our program, and one of them is no complaining, no excuses, no complaining, and no whispering. So if you're complaining or whispering, then, then we're not handling business the right way.

[Matt Norlander]

Way. I dig that. By the way. I think both of us had calls in the middle of this interview. It's that time of the year. We're almost done. You have been on the losing end of, of, of results with your rival. A season ago, I was at one of those games. And now you have been on the winning end back to back this season. What is it like to be involved in a rivalry like Michigan, Michigan State, and anything that you want to get clipped or aggregated that you want to say about Tom Ezzo right now, I'm, I'm all ears. So have it. It.

[Dusty May]

Yeah. First of all, when you look at what they've done the last 30 years, it's incredible. It's. It's a standard that I don't think anyone will be able to live up to. They're incredible. They're just as difficult to play against this year as they were 20 years ago or 15 years ago. It's, it's a healthy rivalry. There's, there's no love lost whatsoever. We battle them in recruiting, we battle them on the court. We'll probably maybe see them again in the next, within the next week or four weeks wherever the case. They're that good and their players are. There's, they play as hard and as connected, as locked in as anyone we've seen this year. And so it's been fun competing against them. They, we've had. Last year when we brought our team together in June, there were certain things in the Big Ten we showed our team and said if we're going to be playing for championships this year, then we're going to have to compete with this. And Michigan State's transition offense was on that video. Illinois's offensive rebounding was on that video. And so they've made our day to day preparation better because they're, they're so elite in certain things.

[Matt Norlander]

Well done, Dusty. Appreciate that answer.

[Dusty May]

Not the one you're looking for. Sorry man.

[Matt Norlander]

You and I, you and I both know that there is a real. And I appreciate this, I said it earlier this week on the pod. I appreciate that there is a general, authentic, competitive with both of you as coaches, as programs. It's not manufactured. You are the narrative.

[Dusty May]

The narratives are manufactured.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, tell us more.

[Dusty May]

Oh, that we, we just live in the portal in year two and both of us signed four Portal guys each and, and I anticipate they'll be in the Portal this coming year. I mean they, they signed a great high school class. We signed a great high school class. Like, you know, I think we're all trying to do the same thing. Get guys who represent our schools, who play the right way and fit our cultures, wherever that comes from. Europe, the Portal High school ranks. Whatever the case, I know they're going to go out and they're going to, they're going to find the best players they can for them.

[Matt Norlander]

I hear you. So yeah, what Dusty is saying is here is where like Michigan State and some of this is a little bit maybe out outdated or off or Michigan State's just purely like recruiting from the high school rank ranks and bringing up like Izzo still does that. But it's not like Izzo didn't go in the portal. It's not like that staff didn't go in the portal and bring on guys as well. So you're pushing back on the idea that you had this 13 million dollar roster and built your entire roster that way. Whereas opposed. They did it a different way basically. Right?

[Dusty May]

Correct. And yes. I'm ready for the IRX to come in and open up the books and show what people spent spent versus what the spin zone has said they spent.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.

[Dusty May]

The IRS is the way people to do it.

[Matt Norlander]

Right.

[Dusty May]

Because coaches aren't going to do it.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, but how glorious it would be if coaches could do it. Last one. I'll cut you loose on this. We could go get another 10 minutes on that subject. But you might have to face Sparty before long again. We'll see where that goes.

[Dusty May]

And they couldn't hate me anymore, Matt. So we're good.

[Matt Norlander]

That's correct. That's right. Just lean all the way in it. Lean into it entirely. I like that you do that. What you haven't yet gone to the final Fort Michigan. I think that is in your future. It could be this year whenever. I think that's an inevitability. But knowing what it's now like to run a program at like Michigan at this level and you did it at fau. What is. What is harder? When you factor in everything you talked about, how you missed the innocence in a certain sense of what it was like to coach at fau. But we all know what kind of level that program was at and everything that that entails. You probably were able to use some things in your favor in terms of motivating tactics. People underestimating you. No one's underestimating you at Michigan. What is harder like and everything that comes with this job. Dusty, the portal guys coming after your guys, the money associated needing to be the face of the program and everything that comes with off the court that you mentioned this interview. What is more difficult to get a team to a final four. We did FAU or what you've got here at Michigan in totality.

[Dusty May]

Well, the FAA you would think was so different because we weren't as talented as we are here. And so obviously more talent, better players, bigger players I should say bigger players are. Gives you the better chance of winning. You know obviously battling the fact that our players all held eligibility to FAU and. And we're being so actively and aggressively recruited during. By third parties by whoever the case during that. That was a distraction for them. So trying to manage that because their futures are you know important to them and their families and so manage that versus now just managing the expectations and the, the. The fear of failure and the fear of not Living up to what we've, you know, the billing for what we've done up to this point. So it's just different. It's. It's hard everywhere. Look, I mean, I'd have to consult with some of these other guys that have been to the Final Four so many times before. I. I've only, you know, only been a part of it once. We're obviously chasing it this year, and it's going to be incredibly difficult, but I think everyone's job is hard. It's just hard in different ways.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, good stuff, man. I appreciate you hopping on doing this. This is your first podcast appearance. I. In college basketball, we don't do a ton of coaching interviews.

[Dusty May]

Moderate, but I'm honored.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, well, I don't know if you actually mean that, but we appreciate it and, you know, we wanted to help promote the. The docu series. I do think it's awesome that you did this. I think it's incredible that you agreed to do it knowing you'd probably have a good team and then look what has happened. It's phenomenal that this has happened. And for your, like, I know you'll appreciate it. Your family appreciate it, but your players, like, 20 years from now, like, we don't know what's going to happen in the tournament. Tournament can be anything, but they're going to have this footage to look back on when they have kids. I. Dusty, I just think that's really, really cool. And as a consumer, like a consumer of the sport, I think it's awesome when coaches in big spots at big places say yes to this kind of access to allow us in even more and get a real glimpse of it, because it's very easy to say, no. Know, and the fact that you, you know, the buck stops with you and you said, yeah, yes, I want to do this. You know, I think that's pretty cool.

[Dusty May]

And I'm excited to watch the Kansas features as well. I'm with you. I'm a fan of college basketball. I like to see how the people do it and see the personalities of their team. So it's going to be fun.

[Matt Norlander]

The question is, when we get to the tournament, will Michigan and Kansas find themselves in the same part of the bracket and will we have a finale? That would be. That would be something. I don't think that would happen, but. But you never know. It's possible.

[Dusty May]

We'll see what type of voice CBS has in the committee room.

[Matt Norlander]

I maintain the committee makes the decisions of its own accord. Appreciate you, Dusty. Good luck in the Big Ten Tournament. And good luck down the way. I'll see you on later this month.

[Dusty May]

Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Matt Norlander]

Hope you appreciated the talks with Dusty and with Bill earlier in the week. Fascinating to see how both of those teams do here over the coming week or two or three. Really cool inside look. Just as a heads up programming note. So we'll have another show, me and GP on Friday. I'm in Kansas City. And then we've got Selection Sunday, our Selection Sunday show. As usual, we're gonna try and go up by about midnight Eastern on Selection Sunday night. That is very dependent. I'm in the HQ studios in Stanford, Connecticut. GP's in the Manhattan studios for CBS Sports Network. As soon as we can physically both get there to go live, we are going to go live. If you can be there live, it's it really is my favorite podcast of the entire season because we fly by the seat of our pants and it's a great time and it is obviously heavily consumed in real time. So be there for that. And then as we get into the tournament, just a reminder because Parrish and I both have kind of wacky schedules and I'll actually be in studio for the first weekend for HQ this year. We'll have episodes where every episode will have either me or Parrish, but longtime listeners understand that because sometimes GP is in the studio literally until after 1:15, 1:32 in the morning. We can't both go live that late. So we'll have some guests. We'll have Chip Patterson's going to make his return. Might there be a Fasini appearance in the in the wings? We'll wait and see on that. David Cobb's going to be in the mix. Adam Finkelstein going to try and get Isaac Trotter as well a variety of guests that will hop in and help fill out their shows. We will give you live reaction after every single day of the tournament starting in the first round. Looking forward to it and we will talk to you again on Friday night. Paramount Podcasts shot clocks, Big Shots, Upsets, Aces TGL Playoffs are here. First Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common golf and Tigers Jupiter Lynx face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance Keep up its playoffs tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6:30pm and 9pm only on ESPN and the ESPN applied.