← Eye On College Basketball
Eye On College Basketball
Power Five power ranx one month in; UConn-Illinois recap; previewing Tuesday’s stacked slate; an unexpected torching of Lane Kiffin
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There I am.
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B
Gary Parish, welcome back CBS Sports. I own college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, Dodo birds. Leaky Black Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube, be Brandon Davies. Smash that like button. If you haven't yet subscribed to the CBS Sports college basketball YouTube channel, please also do that while you're here. Let's get into it. We're obviously coming to you a little earlier than normal on a Saturday Sunday because of a light schedule in the sport today. On some level I recognize, very disrespectful to Sundance Wicks. If Wyoming upsets Texas Tech this afternoon, rest assured we will, we will make up for it somehow, some way. But we wanted to go early today and wanted to start by taking a fresh look at the power conferences now that we are basically four full weeks into this season. Norlander the thing among the things I wrote this weekend is that based on the way, I don't know, I measure things, regardless of what a computer might say, I don't think any conference is off to a better start than the Big Ten is off to this season. Do you agree or do you want to argue about it?
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A
We're going to dive right in. By the way, it's great to see you. We are going early this 1:00pm NFL slate is math, to say the least. I have no faith in Sundance Wicks getting it done with his Wyoming Cowboys against Texas tech and Grant McCaslin. So let's just dive right in. Also, I didn't realize this my man here, you'd have to be watching on YouTube to be able to get a hold of this. He's rocking. He's rocking a new mic stand. You're not messing around. That might be a new mic. Is that a new mic? And I think it's a new camera. Are you going brand new on everything? They.
- [03:08]
B
They. They sent somebody to my house and they took all my stuff and they put all new stuff in.
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A
Well, I love to see this. Now, here's the next question we're going to get. I just. I have to address this right off the top. You're not packing this when you go on trips, right? This isn't gonna have to go through the TSA situation. I hope.
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B
I pray my up for. For everybody who's been wondering how my travel situation will be with podcasting equipment. I'm sure that's what you're here for. Instead of watching Shadur, you're here to find out exactly how I plan to travel with podcasting equipment.
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No.
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B
Everything that is now in here, brand new is awesome. Could not be more appreciative. And. And it will never move. It's going to stay right here. And now I will take different podcasting equipment. It'll just stay in a travel bag. It'll just stay in a suitcase. In fact, I might just leave it in New York City and then just see it when I get there. But I'm excited. It's like Christmas around here. It's like Christmas came early around here.
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A
All right, I'd love to see it. Man, you look good. Everything looks amazing there. Let's dive in. So your premise is that the Big Ten is the best league in college basketball right now. Is that your premise or your curiosity?
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B
I think that's my premise. I think I've been impressed by no conference as much as I've been impressed by the Big Ten. I can run you through some stuff if you want me to.
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A
Let's. You know what? You do that. I've got numbers on all five power leagues. We're going to touch on every single one. Because as we come to you live here, it is November 30th we are one full month into the season and by the way, the net rankings will make their public debut on Monday morning, December 1st. So before we get that key metric, yeah, let's do some.
- [04:47]
B
Let's.
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A
Let's hash some stuff out. Let's arbitrate some stuff with all these five leagues because I do think there is a compelling case for the Big Ten, the Big 12 and the SEC. But let's kick it off with the Big Ten, which most notably I think leads the nation with the amount of undefeated teams that are remaining. It has seven. No other league has more than four. But again, we'll get to the other leagues in just a few. What do you got on the Big Ten?
- [05:09]
B
GP leaves the nation in trophies. That's a good place to start. I have eight victim teams in the top 25 and one right now, including number two, Purdue, number three, Michigan. If you're curious, I still have Arizona number one based on the strong body of work that I think is better than anybody else's body of work. Again, eight Big Ten teams in the top 25 and one right now. No other conference has more than six. Purdue is undefeated, won the Baja Mar Championship. Michigan, undefeated, won the Players Era Festival. Usc, undefeated, won the Maui Invitational. Iowa, undefeated, won the Acrisure. Nebraska, undefeated, won the hall of Fame Classic. Michigan State and Indiana, they don't got trophies, I don't think, but they both are still undefeated. All of those schools are in the top 25 and 1. And then there's Illinois, which is only 6 and 2, but also in the top 25 and 1. Both losses. Are the teams ranked ahead of them? UConn and Alabama. They've got to win over Texas Tech. We'll see if Sunday Wix gets one a little later on today. So still top 20 in the computers, still top 20 in the top 25 and one again, that's just one way to chop this stuff up. I know you've got others, but based on the number of trophies already won, the number of zeros in the lost columns, the number of teams in the top 25 and 1, I think the Big Ten has had the best opening night.
- [06:33]
A
I would have the Big Ten slightly number two. Right now I have the Big 12 number one. But let's stick on the Big Ten. So right now the Big Ten is 107 and 25 overall. That win percentage is 0.811. It is second in the country to the Big 12. As I mentioned before, seven unbeaten teams. Although it should be noted that Indiana, USC, Ohio State, Nebraska Penn State all have yet to play a top 50 opponent. So some of the Big Ten's record is influenced by the fact that a good portion of its league is yet to play a legitimate opponent. If you will. Teams with at least three losses. The Big Ten has four of them. Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, all have three. Minnesota has four versus ranked opponents this season. The Big Ten is seven and eight. They're not alone in being under.500. Guess what? Every single Power Five league is under.500 against ranked opponents this season. But the Big Ten to seven and eight, it doesn't have the most wins against ranked competitions. That is the Big 12 versus top 50 Ken Palm teams. The Big Ten this season through Sunday, November 30 is 12 and 13. Now eight of those 12 wins, 66% of those wins are responsible by way of Michigan and Michigan State. So two schools out of 18 are responsible for 66% of the league's best wins overall. But nevertheless, 12 and 13 against top 50 competition, that is the most wins. Excuse me, that's the second most wins against top 50 competition overall. It's a really, really good start for the Big Ten. Here's why I have the Big 12 number one to this point. This is presuming, by the way, that Texas Tech and West Virginia both playing on Sunday after pod time, we're going to, we're going to give them those wins. And if, and if I'm wrong, then I'll own it on Wednesday. But we're going to say they win those games. Okay? So with those wins on the books, the Big 12 is 98 and 20. So it has the best win percentage by a little bit of a margin, but a margin nonetheless over the Big 10. It has four undefeated teams still in its ranks. Arizona, Colorado, Iowa State and Oklahoma State. Teams with three plus losses. None. It's the only league in the In. In. In in America where not one single team at the end of November has at least three losses versus ranked opponents. The Big 12 has one more than the Big 10. Despite getting the same amount of opportunities. It's 8 and 10 versus ranked opponents. And the Big 12 is the only league in the country right now that is above.500 against Ken Palm. Top 50 competition through Sunday, 17 and 15 overall. And whereas the Big Ten has had five schools that have yet to play a top 50 opponent, only one of the 16 teams in the Big 12 is yet to play a top 50 team. That is Colorado, which to this point is still undefeated. Really off to a nice start over there. So not big margins GP. But to me, overall, I would say that Big 12 is one, the Big 10 is two. And then here's the twist on all of this. Neither of those leagues are ranked number one at kenpom right now. The SEC still ranks number one in the country through one month of the season. Some of that is still predictive in nature, but even accounting for that, its lead is actually pretty comfortable at Ken Palm. It goes SEC, then Big 12, then Big 10. There's a drop off. We'll get to the ACC and the Big east in just a second there. But that's my case for the Big 12. Thoughts on on those two head to heads before we dive into the SEC.
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B
Some of this just comes down to what do you care about most, strength at the top or top to bottom strength? Right. Because if I'm looking at it, the Big 12 at Ken Palm and there's a million different computers out there, this is just the one we're referencing for this conversation. The Big 12 at Kim Palm has exactly one team outside of the top 85, whereas the Big Ten has four. So the Big Ten is going to have more garbage at the bottom than the Big 12, but I'm more interested in like looking at the top. That's all we ever think about anyways. You know, who's going to be a top four seed, who's in the top 25, who's in the top 25th, and one who's top 50 at Ken Palm. You know, how many bids is a league gonna get? And so the, the way we view the sport is typically from top to bottom. You know, we focus on the top more than the bottom, the quality at the top more than the garbage at the bottom. And when you do it like that, I, that's where I settle on the Big Ten being ahead of the Big 12 in the SEC, though I am not ignorant to what the computers say. Another way to frame it, I told you Already, I've got eight Big Ten teams in the top 25 and one. No other league has more than six. It is the Big 12 in the SEC, both with six. If you want to take it to Ken Palm, Ken Palm has the Big Ten has 10 teams in the top 35 at KenPom. The SEC has eight, the Big 12 has seven. The SEC has 11 in the top 40, but zero in the top nine. The Big 12 has seven in the top 40, including three in the top nine. And the Big Ten again has eight. Or let me see, 10 in the top 35, including Purdue and Michigan, which are obvious national championship contenders. So there's more good teams in the Big Ten than I think there are in any other conference. And I think they've got multiple, legitimate, undeniable national championship contenders. If you frame it just like that, that's. I put Big Ten at the top.
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A
I think that it can be either or. I would take Big 12 because not a single team has two losses. Everyone's played good competition. It's the only one above.500 overall as a conference versus top 50 competition and has the most wins versus ranked competition. That's just the counter to what GP just laid out there. Before we get to the SEC, I want to, I want to tag off what you just said there. Big 10, Big 12, national championship contenders. So in the Big 10, I'm going to say the school, and you say yes or no national championship contender. And let's frame it like, not here in the moment. It's yes in the moment, but I believe that over the course of the season, this team is going to be in the conversation to be a national championship contender. Okay. All right. Michigan.
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B
Yes.
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A
Purdue.
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B
Yes.
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Michigan State.
- [12:27]
B
I think we could maybe stop right there. I, I think I, I, I, I stopped there. I, I mean, in, to hold the trophy at the end of the whole thing.
- [12:36]
A
I'm saying in the conversation, to win a national champ, like, yeah, like a contender. Contender status. You want to stop at Michigan and Purdue. You don't think Michigan State, Illinois are in there?
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B
I mean, you gotta win. Like, I'm not talking about just get to the Final Four. I'm talking about once you get to the Final Four, you got to win two more games, hold the trophy, win six. I don't know that any league is going to have more than two.
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A
Okay, then let's, then let's expand this out to Final Four contenders. Okay.
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B
Yeah.
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Michigan, Purdue.
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B
Yeah.
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Michigan State.
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B
Yes.
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Illinois.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. Indiana.
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B
I mean, they, I mean, yeah, I guess. I mean, you know, I'd like to see them, I'd like to see them get a little deeper into their schedule.
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A
Yeah, Indiana has not played a top 50 opponent yet. I'm not, I'm not there on Indiana.
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B
Personally, but they are 7.
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A
0.
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B
I do have them ranked. They're in, you know, the computer numbers are strong. They, they've looked good, but the schedule is the schedule to date. I, I would take a TBD on.
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A
That, but a tbi, let's say a DBD is a no. It could still happen, but it's got to be, it's got to be a belief today.
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B
So in the end, any, any team that's top 20 in the computers a month into the season is, I think by definition a final four contender. But I understand why you'd be skeptical.
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A
So Iowa 21 at Ken Palm. Final four contender.
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B
I mean, I guess so. They got Ben McCollum. He goes to the final four every year. Best I can tell, four division two national championships. And his division one record is now updated at 38.
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A
4 USC. I mean, I, I mean, how many, how GP? I mean, I don't have a top 50 win yet. I mean, congrats on winning Maui. It's like, it's a good, it's a good start.
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B
But I mean, what do you want? Like, yeah, all of these teams you've named so far are top 30 in computers and top 30 teams.
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A
Yeah, but you can be a top, you can be the 27th best team. Doesn't mean you're a Final Four contender. Like, I do not think Indiana, Iowa, USC are Final Four contenders right now. I could change my mind by the middle of January, but the teams from the Big Ten I feel comfortable about right now to be Final Four contenders both in the here and now and to actually be in good standing by the time we get to say, the end of February. I would say Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois. A fifth could emerge from that. I personally don't feel comfortable adding any other than the four at the top of the Big Ten right now.
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B
Just thinking of this two different ways. I am, I am, I'm falling on the idea that, I mean, NC State went to the Final Four a couple of years ago.
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A
I know that's, that's aberrational though.
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B
I know. But like, teams that are like borderline top 20ish teams 15 to 25 range are, are almost always like, they gotta, they got a chance. They're in contention to go to a Final Four whether I'll pick them or not. If you're asking the question, do I think any of those teams, are they the only two I would trust to get there? Like, yeah, go ahead. I'll put some money on them on November 30th. I could see them getting there. That's probably Purdue and Michigan. Michigan State because of Izzo and just because they're rock solid. But I wonder if the talent gets them. The, the lack of high end talent gets them at some point. I don't mean that to sound disrespectful. Michigan State's very good. I've got them in the top 10. But that's not a team that is similarly talented to some of the. The other teams that. That we're going to end up talking about. Michigan, Purdue, I think obvious contenders. The rest of them, I'd be surprised if they got there. But my point is, I wouldn't be. There's nothing crazy about thinking a say, 70 Iowa team that's 21st at Ken Palm. There's nothing crazy about the idea of that team maybe winning four games in the NCAA tournament.
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A
I agree with that. I agree with that. That in general is speaking. I just wouldn't rank Iowa right Now among the 20 most likely teams to do it. But again, that could change. All right, Big 12 to me, objectively has more contenders. You're gonna. Are you only gonna take two from this league? You say the top of the league matters. Where are you cutting it off? Houston, Arizona, Iowa State, at minimum. What about Kansas? When they get Darren Peterson back, BYU with. With DeVonts at Texas Tech. Doesn't it feel like the Big 12 at the top is stronger than the Big Ten?
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B
I think the Big 12, if we're just doing it like 1 against 1, 2 against 2, 3 against 3, 4 against 4. Yeah, I think the Big 12 probably stronger than the Big Ten in some of those. But once you get to like five against five, six against six, seven against seven, eight against eight, that's where I think the Big Ten starts to. There's more strength in that four, five, six range than I think is in the Big 12. But we are really. I hope this is clear. Splitting.
- [16:52]
A
Yes, I know. Listen, it's good to just bounce back and forth and disagree a little bit every so often on the pod.
- [16:58]
B
I like. I have Twitter. I know what this looks like on Twitter. Yeah, I'm gonna get turned into all sorts of things. And we're talking in a nuanced way.
- [17:06]
A
But yeah, the real ones that listen to the pod, you know what we're talking about here also. We just want to give a good little landscape of the. Of the sport here. Again, we're four full weeks into the season and with the net coming out tomorrow, this will be a good way to set the table. Let's move on to the SEC. So the Big Ten, or excuse me, the Big 12 is win percentage of 831. Big Ten is 811 SEC 7, 8, 2. They're 93 and 26 overall in record. Three unbeatens left. LSU, Missouri and Vanderbilt. But LSU has not played a top 100 opponent yet. And neither has Missouri, by the way. And then A M, which has. It's also the other, excuse me, A M has not played a top 50 opponent but it has lost a game. Teams with three plus losses in the SEC just one. It's Mississippi State which has four. But there are only five teams with either zero or one losses and I believe that's second to to the Big Ten overall versus ranked opponents the SEC 5 and 11 so far this season record versus the top 50 at Ken Palm. This is what to me I know it's ranked number one at Ken Palm right now. This is what firmly to me puts the SEC at third. It's 8 and 19 versus ranked competition or excuse me, top 50 competition so far. That's the picture on the SEC GP and I had a little fun with the SEC preview podcast where I believe you predicted 13 bids for this league. I said there was no chance. You tried to mock me. This now means there is no chance the SEC will not send 13 teams to the tournament this season. 12 is going to be extremely hard. 11 might be on the table, but a big step back after an all time, all time, you know, season last season, but still a firm strong third. I think you can if you really really want to try and build out the case for the sec, you have to do it based on the fact that you've got five teams with either zero or one losses and you are ranked number one in some metrics. But overall I would think that we agree sec number three. Although maybe, maybe you have sec two and big 12 three. Where do you land on the Southeastern Conference?
- [18:55]
B
I actually ranked them to put them in a certain order and I think I had it Sec 2, Big 12 3. But the issue have I convinced you Like I'm open my like I am convinced the Big Ten is the best based on the way I view things because I don't care about the garbage at the bottom as much as I care about the strength of of likely NCAA tournament teams. Like take 1 through 8, 9, 10, 11. I like that in the big 10, big 12, sec. I'm I could take it in any direction. The the thing that would concern me about the SEC is The SEC has 11 in the top 40 whereas the Big 12 only has seven. And I sort of cut it off at 40 because that's in the range of at large conversation typically. And so the SEC has more of them than the Big 12 but zero teams in the top nine. You realize what the top rated Kin Palm SEC team is right now, right?
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A
Oh, I actually don't Let me guess. Not Kentucky, not Florida. Bama. Seems like it's A trick. Tennessee. I feel like I should know it and I don't. Hold on, let me still, let me think through this. What the hell. I'll say Tennessee, but I know it's wrong.
- [20:27]
B
Who is it? It is in the state of Tennessee, but not the University of Tennessee. Eight, no. 0 wins over ranked teams, but they are beating the out of everybody. So St. Mary's by 25, VCU by 15, UCF by 12. So it's clear Mark Vinton's got a good team in year two in Nashville. It's unclear just how good. I mean the efficiency numbers are great. They are beating, you know, okay teams badly. But their first game against the currently ranked team will not come until January 7th against Alabama.
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A
But.
- [21:05]
B
But yes, technically right now Vanderbilt is the highest rated SEC team at at Ken Palm. In the preseason I had Florida winning it. You had Kentucky. Where are you at now?
- [21:16]
A
Good question. And Vandy fans, we won't get out of here without giving a little more love to your team. Paris, that's a good question. Honestly, right now Bama is my answer and that is informed by the Jaden quaintance which I who I think is still expected to return for Kentucky at some point. That timeline still remains to be determined. And then Jalen Lowe's situation. Like I picked, I think I've said on the show I picked Kentucky to win the SEC with the. With the idea that Jalen Lowe would be one of the five or so most valuable transfers in the entire country and would be a game changer as a true point guard with that offense. Now he's got the shoulder issue. His availability is completely unknown. So with that new information and context I would give you Alabama but I would also say between Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, Bama, still throw Florida in there. I won't toss the everything out on Auburn yet. Like this does feel like and maybe Arkansas gets together, it has not beaten a good team yet. We could have a really awesome race in the sec. We got to get to like early February before we know if that's actually the case. But as things stand right now, one month in, that feels like it's an even tighter race than I would have thought a month ago.
- [22:19]
B
Yeah, I've got Alabama as my highest ranked SEC team in the top 25 and 1 right now but that's at 11. So highest ranked SEC team not even in the top 10. At the top. In the top 25 and 1. But I guess I would go to Alabama and you can sort of, you know, if you care about stuff like this. Trust the program, trust the coach. You know, NATO just won two of the past five regular season SEC titles and two of the past five SEC tournament titles. So the past 10 trophies the SEC has handed out, Alabama's got 40 of them. So. And they might, you know, they might be in position to add another one come March.
- [22:55]
A
Yeah, and they're two and two right now. Not just against top 50 competition, against top 20 competition. They got the win at St. John's and then they win against Illinois in Chicago. They lost at home to Purdue and then I was there in Vegas when they gave Gonzaga a decent enough push, but they wound up losing by 10. As for Vandy, just real quick, Mark Byington's done a really, really wonderful job. The one, the notable win so far at ucf, whatever, but it is on the road. And then they win the battle for Atlantis. They get that done. They beat VCU, who's shown some nice signs early. And then St. Mary's was able to be just utterly dominant. 9671 on Friday down there in the Bahamas. And you almost never see a team hit 90 against St. Mary's and Randy Bennett, extremely impressive by Byington. Not a flashy coach because of where he coaches. Doesn't get a little, a lot of, a lot of run. I'll remind folks, this is the guy who took James Madison to the tournament, beat Wisconsin. 32 wins at JMU just a couple of years ago. Getting the Vandy job and off to a really nice start here this season. Vandy fans did give me some flack and they were right to do so because I think I had Vandy 41 or 42 to start the season. This is not only a top 25 looking squad, it's right now. It's, you know, it's top 10, top 15, a lot of metrics and may prove to be that as well. Really fun offense. So did want to give you guys some plenty of love there. Good stuff on Vandy. We can keep it moving. ACC is fourth GP. Here are its numbers. 105 and 31 overall. That's a 0.772 win percentage. So 10 percentage points below the SEC. Three unbeaten teams left. Duke, Louisville and SMU. Teams with three plus losses. They've got five of them for a quick reset. The Big 12 doesn't have any. The Big Ten has four. The SEC has one. The ACC has five. Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and BC all have at least three losses a month into the season versus ranked opponents. The ACC is just four and nine. You heard me correct folks. There are four ranked wins through the first four weeks for this league unfortunately. And versus the Ken Palm top 50 it's not any better. 10 and 18 overall. So the ACC actually has more wins than the SEC versus top 50 competition. But the bottom of the league is what brings it and drags it down overall versus the SEC. Stanford and Boston College have no top 100 games yet there have been some some brutal losses for this league overall. Although I will shout out Pitt, they wanted the buster over Ohio State from the Big Ten late Friday night. An incredible sequence. In fact, Pitt beat Ohio State at the buzzer on a three pointer for the second consecutive season. They had a home in Rome. Capel's team got it done. Gonna need a lot more of that to get Pitt into a better spot overall. But credit to Pitt for, for getting that done before we get to the the Big east, which is clearly fifth thoughts on the ACC so far GP this year going in the thinking was Duke 1 on a tier 2 itself and then Louisville probably in UNC next and then we wait and see after that. Right now it's Duke still on a tier. Then I think Louisville on a tier and then you get into how does that UNC fit in? How does NC State fit in an NC State team that went 1 and 2 in Maui. By the way, Clemson is off to a solid start. We got to see a little bit more Virginia, you know, lost the game to Butler that we didn't think was it was going to lose. So it gets knocked down a peg. SMU is eight. No, but you know, all respect to Josh, the best win is at home versus Butler. We'll wait and see what Butler is. What are your thoughts on the acc?
- [26:22]
B
First off, I'm not certain. I wouldn't put Louisville in a tier with Duke. Okay. I would still have Duke. I don't know man. I like that Louisville team a lot. We've been over it. I can say the same thing I said last week. We've been over it. But Duke, Louisville, clearly a separate, separated. I think I know North Carolina fans aren't going to want to hear that, but I, I would, I would argue Duke and Louisville in a tier above anybody else. I guess I'd put it this way. Duke is about what I about what I expected. Louisville looks great. I thought they'd be good. Probably better than I expected. UNC looks good, maybe slightly better than I expected. Then NC State, Virginia Wake, Clemson are all sort of operating like borderline NCAA tournament team. So that's seven right there. With a chance to make it. Like you mentioned, SMU8.
- [27:15]
A
No.
- [27:16]
B
You know, still lacking signature wins, but 41st at Kinpom, you know that that puts you in the range last season, their conference rating at Kenpalm, for whatever it was worth, plus 9.16. And right now it's plus 14.76. So that's the highest since 2019 for the ACC. Plus 5.6 points to the better and it goes up from fifth to fourth. You know, the ACC hadn't gotten more teams, gotten more than five teams in the tournament since 2021. Four bids last season, 5 and 24. 5 and 23. 5 and 22 this season. If you just go ahead and pencil in Duke, Louisville, UNC, then you only need three more to get to six. I. The ACC is still notably behind, I think the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, but is better than it's been in years and I would think is going to get more NCAA tournament bids than it's gotten in years.
- [28:16]
A
I think I agree with that. Want to see a little bit? I just need to see. I just got to see more. I got to see what NC State's going to be, make sure UNC is going to be good. As expected. Virginia, I had high hopes on Wake Forest is, you know, Wake Forest is two, you know, just two coin flips away from being undefeated and that changes the conversation as well. Miami off to a solid enough start, but the bottom is. Is the problem. And Georgia Tech is bad. College is bad. Pitt got the wind to a stave off being a 4 and 4 team. It's 5 and 3 right now. FSU, like Virginia Tech got some. Got a good start and then it just lost definitively twice down in, down in Orlando, excuse me, in the Bahamas at the Battle for Atlantis there. So it is taking on losses that it should be avoiding. And I do think. I think five is definitely going to happen. I say definitely because I do think five will definitely happen out of the acc. It's the ACC that should happen. But in terms of 6, 7 bids, 8 seems too far. Too far of a reach here. We'll. We'll see on that. You want to move on, Talk to biggies before we head to the next segment here.
- [29:17]
B
I was just gonna say on Wake Forest.
- [29:20]
A
Yeah.
- [29:21]
B
Said the exact same thing you said a week ago. And there's some nitpickers out there that will point out that if Wake Forest would have actually won its first game in the Baja Mar, it would not have played Memphis, it would have played Purdue. And therefore you can't say that Wake Forest would have been undefeated unless I can. Forest would be. Would have beaten Purdue. And to those people, I do a double bird. But like just. I didn't want them to get near mentions the way they got it.
- [29:48]
A
I don't care. You get my mentions, I don't. Whatever. Do what you got to do. Biggies is definitively fifth. Not good. Okay. Big east is off to a brutal start this month. This season, okay, 55 and 26 overall. A win percentage of 0.679. Not a single team in the conference. It's an 11 team league. Everyone else we're talking about is 16 or 18 teams. Not a single team in the league is undefeated. Teams with three plus losses. There are six of them. Six of the 11. DePaul, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's and Marquette all have three. Providence already has four by the way. Marquette, which took a loss. We can even get into this right now, man. Marquette is four and four. It took the loss 75, 74 on Friday at UIC. I got the COVID on that for the final four and one by the way. It was Oklahoma minus one and a half. So I did get the win there. Marquette has never lost four games in November in this program's history. Now to be fair, up until, you know, 15, 20 years ago, seasons weren't starting until November 18, 1920, right? But still four and four. The program doesn't find itself in this position very often. And it is emblematic of what is happening with the Big east overall versus ranked opponents. This league is 3 and 8. There are three wins through the first four weeks versus ranked competition for the Big East. It's record versus the Ken Palm top 56 and 17. It is the only league in which every single team in this league has actually played a top 50 opponent. But not a good record. 6 and 17 overall. UConn is the only team that is above.500 and has at least two wins against top 50 competition. It is not looking good for the Big East. It has actually reached a situation. Now there is time to do some reversal. We'll see if it can happen. Parrish. But it has already reached a situation with the Big east here where it is. It is under threat to be a three big max league. It is under threat. Yukon obviously looking good. We think St. John's is going to level out to where it should be. But it's 4 and 3 right now. Like unknown to Villanova. 5 and 1. Gotta wait and see. Butler 6 and 1. Gotta wait and see. Creighton doesn't look like it has an NSA tournament team. Seton Hall, 7 and 1 still have to wait and see. And then you've got Providence, Marquette, Xavier, Georgetown, DePaul. They've all got three or four losses. Georgetown is five and two, by the way, but it lost back to back games, Dayton and then Miami. Georgetown got off to a nice start. It won at Maryland. Folks, Maryland is ranked 94th at Ken Palm right now. So a lot of factors going against the Big East. It's going to need a big December to and certainly have teams like Villanova or Butler or Georgetown to course correct itself to get itself into a better spot. But it is not debatable right now. The worst power league through the first month of the season is the Big East.
- [32:33]
B
Yeah, I've got two Big east teams in the top 25 and one UConn at four. That's easy. They're excellent. St. John's at number 25. I've still got him in there. To the fella who said you can't rank a team that's four and three, yes, you can.
- [32:49]
A
I just.
- [32:49]
B
I'm doing it. And also, like, logically, that's just stupid. What if you're 4 and 3 and your three losses are to the teams ranked 1, 2 and 3 and your four wins are over? The teams rank 4, 5, 6 and 7? You tell me you couldn't rank that thing.
- [33:01]
A
You could. That'd be one hell of a schedule.
- [33:03]
B
That'd be the baddest schedule ever.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah, that'd be incredible. Sounds like something. It sounds like you're daring NATO to do it.
- [33:08]
B
By the way, don't tweet me. Dumb stuff. That's all I'm saying. All right. I just proved to you how you could rank somebody with a 4 and 3 record. Twitter Streets out there insisting that you can't.
- [33:18]
A
Don't worry about the Twitter streets. By the way, as you continue our poll, what league is going to get the most bids? They side with UGP 62 say it will wind up being the Big Ten with the most bids. 34 of the vote going to the Big 12. And then just 5% percent a year after setting the record, 5% of the vote going to the SEC. I think GP's got a very good chance of having the Big Ten having the most bids. I would pick the Big 12 as the best league right now through the first month of the season. But I think bid wise representation, we get to the tournament. I do think I agree with you that the Big Ten is the most likely to get there, but we'll see. It should be a good, a pretty good push over the next two and a half months.
- [33:49]
B
You know, it's all subjective, but often that is how we define best. You know, how many teams you get the tournament like that. That usually equates to how many good teams you had. And so I'm not going to care about, well, how many, how many did they get in the crown though, you know, Okay, I know they got eight in the NCAA tournament, but they got five in the crown. Like that's got to count for some. I don't care how many you get in the crown or anything outside of the NCAA tournament. I'm focused, I'm looking at the good and up. I don't care about the bottom. But in the Big east, like it's. There ain't much good enough. I mean, I think St. John's is going to be good, but they've done nothing to. They've done nothing to make me. I'm just, I'm just hoping at this point, I'm just hope I don't really have anything to base it on. It sounds like Rick hates his team. Doesn't know where anybody's supposed to be playing. It's tough. It's tough, man. I got him at 25. Outside of that, I mean, who's good? Nobody else in the top 40. At Ken Palm, you say three bid league and I agree with you just because somebody else will emerge. But like if we were trying to do it today, you go, okay, Yukon Shore, St. John, sure. I don't know, you know, I don't know. Marquette form four clearly down. I noticed nobody had tweeted to for me to rank Georgetown lately. I was like, what's going on with them, I wonder. They've lost two straight five five zero to five and two. Creighton fans did not like it at all when we said that's the team in the preseason top 25. That if you got to pick one to miss the NCAA tournament, that's. That's maybe the one I'd go with. They're now 4 and 356 that Ken Palm. Villanova is 5 and 1. Nice record, but no good. Wins a loss to BYU. Butler 6 and 1 43rd at KenPom. That's good. Beat Virginia, lost to SMU. That's good for Butler, but it doesn't guarantee anything NCAA tournament wise quite yet. TBD on them as well. So yes, on UConn. Obviously St. John's will get there one way or another unless they pull a North Carolina from a few years ago and just completely go the wrong direction. Somebody else will emerge as the third best team in the Big east and then. Man, that might be it. That really might be it.
- [35:54]
A
Could be. Could be a long season, but December's big. A lot of matchups, including starting this week. We'll get to those in just a little bit, but that's a hearty a block by the way, big time stuff. Hope you've enjoyed the the review there through four full weeks of a lot of good non con play. We got plenty more to come but GP I'd say there was one major major result, although there might be a Big 12 team that I want to sneak in some some love on too. As well. But what should we next?
- [36:18]
B
I think there's at least one notable game to touch on. Let's go back to Was it Black Friday?
- [36:23]
A
I guess it was Black Friday. I I've lost all sense of what day of the week it is, but it was Black Friday.
- [36:28]
B
Man. I can't. I don't know what day it is anymore. Yeah, I don't think link if it knows what day it is either.
- [36:33]
A
You know what? Lane Kiffin's not getting out of this episode without a little talk as well. We'll try and shoehorn that in before we hit end on the record too.
- [36:41]
B
Con 74, Illinois 61 we'll talk about it next. First, let's get a word from our partner. Black Friday Savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday Savings happening now at the Home Depot. Limit one per transaction exclusions apply. Full eligible tool list in store and online. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability because they show up no matter the weather, push forward no matter the terrain and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in 2025, according to J.D. power. Because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard. Visit Chevy.com to learn more.
- [38:03]
A
Chevrolet received the highest total number of.
- [38:04]
B
Awards among all the trucks in the J.D. power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study Awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit JD Power.com awards for more details. Chevrolet Together Let's Drive. Final score Yukon 74, Illinois 61 Terrace Reed started and played 15 minutes. Braylon Mullins came off the bench, made a season debut, played 10 minutes. So the Huskies are 6 and 1. Headed to Allen Field House for a showdown with Kansas on Tuesday. What do you got to say about UConn that you hadn't said before?
- [38:36]
A
What do I got to say about what?
- [38:38]
B
What do you have to say about UConn that you haven't said before?
- [38:40]
A
Oh, okay. The way you said that made me feel like you were suddenly on UConn staff and I had said something bad about them or something. They're coming at me.
- [38:50]
B
Oh no. Trust me, if you said something bad about UConn, somebody from somebody from up there gonna call you. You don't have to worry about it.
- [38:58]
A
You'll get phone this this was an impressive win by the way.
- [39:04]
B
Be something bad about Yukon. It just has to be some something that somebody twists up incorrectly about Yukon and then your phone rings. It's wild.
- [39:13]
A
Keep it moving. Yukon gets the six in one. Good all around effort, enjoyable game. A complete aside. I understand why given the schedules and how these buildings work, this has to happen. But it just looks ridiculous for the sport that you turn on a game on a Black Friday and you see two college teams going at it and they're playing on an NBA cup court and that's what happened here at Madison Square Garden. Just looks weird as hell. But it is what it is. I guess. Malachi Smith had his best game in the Yukon uniform. The like getting read back. Yeah, getting Braylon Mullins to make his debut. Sure they're working them in. Even Hurley said afterward they're on something of a minutes count and they'll still be on a minutes count for the Kansas game, but it's going to be upped. But the fact that you had Malachi Smith play as well as he did 3 of 3 from 3 point range, that's the kind of stuff where you're playing non conference opponents and and they're viable NCAA tournament teams and are you getting some production from guys that aren't going to be your best player or your second best player, your third best player. But they come up in a big spot in a big game. So you know, or you hope down the road, you know, at some point in January, in February and even March, okay, they've been in the spot. They've got the confidence they can do it. I thought that was a big, a big time deal for, for Yukon with Malachi Smith. We saw that earlier in the season with, with Silas Demery in the BYU game. They got that as well. Caravan hit some big shots and it was a, it was a quality win at Store south for the Huskies in advance of what will be a very tough game obviously upcoming. We'll get to that in the next segment as we preview a loaded Tuesday. As For Illinois, it's 6 and 2 Alabama's the loss in Chicago and then the Yukon one here. They beat Texas Tech at home. They've got a break. We'll talk about it on Friday show they play Tennessee. I still think that Illinois is going to be one of those teams that is truly capable of beating just about almost anyone on a given night. But it might wind up just take it's got a tough schedule, it's going to be in a very tough league and if I'm really projecting out Illinois could be the kind of team that's like winds up with a a three or four seed but is capable of making the final four and getting into a title game. But they're going to take on a heavier loss volume overall. They don't force the issue with their defense quite as much as I'd like and I know Underwood agrees talked with them out in the preseason in this game in particular Yukon did have 10. They, they leveled out in turnovers but I just, I feel like they have the length particularly with that starting five. I mean they've Boswell's a little and Boswell's been a stat monster but he's a little bit undersized I guess. A little. He's strong, he's just not tall but everyone else in the starting lineup is 66 or taller and then the guys off the bench. Hummer cross is 69 big Z 7 2. Petrovich is a little bit more slight but they've got the the size to be a little bit more disruptive. Overall it was a quality game. Wish it was a little bit closer. It was really really hot to start. Then Yukon just pulled away and they get themselves a good non con win. So UConn at this point is 2 and 1 against its biggest opponents. The home game against Arizona being the loss.
- [42:15]
B
Yeah. Of the Big Ten teams that I have in the top 25 and one, Illinois is the only one with multiple losses. But that's just schedule induced. You know, they, you know, they, they, they schedule Texas Tech, they schedule Alabama, they schedule UConn, Tennessee, Missouri, you know, they, they challenge themselves. I give Brad credit and you know, I, as long as you don't lose to bad teams, keep losing the teams that are ahead of you in the rankings, I'm never, I'm not going to punish you too much for that. And so obviously it doesn't get any easier, or maybe it does get slightly easier from UConn to Tennessee. Perhaps it does get slightly easier, but it doesn't get easy because they go on Saturday to Nashville to play the balls. So. But yeah, I'm not worried about Illinois. I think they're going to be, you know, a top 25ish type team all season long. And with UConn, it's just nice to see them whole. Like, I know that they ease Terrace back into it, obviously easing Braylon into it. This is not unique to basketball in the NBA. Typically, first game back for people, it's going to be on a minute's restriction. I don't know that you kind of had anybody on an actual strict minutes restriction, but they obviously didn't play a lot of minutes. Like whatever game UConn's got scheduled for the second week of February, if healthy Braylon, Mullins and Terrace, we will both play more minutes than they played against Illinois. But I think it's a great sign that you're sitting here and you, you know, two of your key guys can play limited minutes and you still handle another top 25 team by, by double digits. Like we've said all preseason and throughout the first month of the season, UConn is going to have a real chance to win a third national title in a, in a four year span. Dan and that staff have put together another excellent basketball team and they look the part.
- [44:03]
A
Only other result I want to touch on real quick before we look ahead. GP is what went down Friday in San Diego at the Rady Children's Invitational and kind of on both ends. TCU beats Wisconsin to win that four team. MTE remember TCU beat Florida on Thursday. We talked about that on Friday show and then they went and they got it done in convincing fashion. Wisconsin loses so real quick on Wisconsin five and two. The law. They, they weren't Competitive against byu, they beat Providence, but Providence might really not be good this season. We'll see. So that win doesn't really amount to much right now. And then they're pretty handily beaten by the Horn Frogs in that game. And credit to tcu, which did play some, some really solid defense. But in the game, Wisconsin just looked like it was John Blackwell, a little Nick Boyd, and then just nothing else there. So we wait and see on that with, with, with Bucky. That's a team that seems to be just a little bit in flux. They've got a game Wednesday against Northwestern at home that you would think they can get on the right side. TCU is the bigger story because they're developing a weird resume. Don't know if they're good or not. They open the season with a random four point loss at home to New Orleans. Okay. And then they nearly take out Michigan on its home floor. On TCU's home floor. So they were 2 and 2 to start the season, but they beat Florida and it was a good game, but they beat him by four. And then they beat Wisconsin convincingly. So Horned Frogs are anywhere from, you know, 40 to 60 right now in a variety of predictive metrics. Wanted to at least give them some credit. This is a program that is very easily lost in the shuffle. We'll wait and see on if they're good or not. But as we talk here on Sunday afternoon, a lot of that stuff in Black Friday is starting to kind of fade from view. At least wanted to give them some love. We'll see. We'll, you know, beating Florida and beating Wisconsin could wind up being two extremely valuable Quad One results that get TCU into the tournament that maybe, you know, tilt another bid in the Big 12 favor. So they got it done there and they were, they were the third most likely team to win that event. But it wasn't Florida that won. It wasn't Wisconsin. TCU beat both of those teams to get it done on Friday.
- [45:59]
B
Yeah, I mean, I could probably look it up. I wonder if anybody's got a resume as weird as this one through the first month of the season where you've got two top 30 wins and a sub 180 loss.
- [46:10]
A
I think they're the weirdest, but don't quote me on it.
- [46:12]
B
Yeah, like that's. I don't know that anybody else is gonna have two wins as good as those wins and a loss as bad as that, that season opening loss. If you care. 50 at that Ken Palm right now. We will look ahead to the next couple of days. Next on Monday. I ain't got much for you on Tuesday. Incredible. And I. I chopped this up one way. I'm sure I'm not the only person to do it, but even I had to go back and count it a couple of times just to make sure it was right. I'll tell you what I'm talking about. We'll do it next. First, let's get one more word from our partners.
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A
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A
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A
Should I burn down the joy? I don't think so.
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B
Then Hulu has National Lampoon's Christmas vacation.
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A
We're all in for a very big Christmas treat.
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B
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A
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B
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A
18 plus terms apply.
- [47:28]
B
Okay, let's look ahead to the next couple of days. On Monday exactly zero currently ranked teams are in action. There is a big five game if you care, between Villanova and Temple. Beyond that, not much for our purposes. Tuesday we get the good stuff. Undefeated Iowa at undefeated Michigan State. Big Ten play gets underway. So that's tremendous. Tennessee at Syracuse. That's Orange versus Orange. And then how about this trio of games? Do you know what I'm about to say?
- [47:58]
A
I know the trio, but let me what I guess you're about to say that it is. It's not quite six blue bloods, but it is six of the most prominent schools and all of them have a national championship in the past 13 seasons.
- [48:14]
B
You're on the right track. Okay, I'll give it. Trio of games. On Tuesday night we get Florida at Duke, Yukon at Kansas. North Carolina at Kentucky. This is Florida. Cameron Indoor UConn at Allen Field House. North Carolina. This is awesome.
- [48:32]
A
It's. It's beyond that. It is glorious. Particularly coming off of the November stuff. Feast week. So much on neutrals. We get it. But man, to go from that smash cut to this parish and these historic venues with these programs. Like if you're dialed in right now on Sunday or listening to this podcast on Monday and you didn't quite realize it. You need to tell all your friends, tell all your family it's a ball night because this is a stud. Stud Tuesday Slate gp I would say.
- [48:59]
B
Tell your enemies too.
- [49:01]
A
Tell them all.
- [49:02]
B
Tell your enemies, tell your family and tell your enemies. Tell your ops. If you got any ops out there, FaceTime your ops and tell them Tuesday is a ball night. Florida at Duke, UConn at Kansas, North Carolina at Kentucky. I will watch those teams play each other anywhere. But man, I'd rather be in these places than neutral court places. Three games featuring six of the best programs in America in road home environments. Here's my point. Those six teams that are going to play in those three games on Tuesday night have accounted for 16 of the past 21 national championships.
- [49:40]
A
Boom.
- [49:41]
B
That is insane. 16 of the past 21 have been won by these six schools that are playing three games. They're matched up against each other on Tuesday night. Since 2003, UConn has won five. It goes back to 2003 and if you want to say like 2003, Syracuse is playing on Tuesday night, but I don't want to include them. I think it's better if you just frame it this way. These three games that these 16, but.
- [50:07]
A
You can up it with two more. Since 99. No, three more.
- [50:12]
B
I liked it better though.
- [50:13]
A
99, Duko 1 and Q03. I'm not saying you have to, but you can say three of the past 26 or 19 of the past 26.
- [50:22]
B
Okay, so I I stopped at Syracuse wins in 2003 after that.
- [50:28]
A
Okay, sure.
- [50:29]
B
UConn has won five, which is just the craziest. Yukon has won five, Florida has won three, North Carolina three, Duke two, Kansas two, Kentucky one. Added up 16. 16 of the past 21 national championships have been won by these six schools.
- [50:48]
A
You can actually Sorry, I'm just teasing this out because I didn't put all so together. Hold on. UConn is 17 and 99, Michigan is 18 in 2000, Duke is 19 and 01 and Syracuse is 20 and 03. So it's 20 of the past 26 no. Or 25 national no. Is it 2526? That cover year always messes me up. Almost every team that won a tournament in the past quarter century plus is playing in a notable game on Tuesday night, with the three most notable being Yukona, Kansas, Florida at Duke, and North Carolina at Kentucky. By the way, for TV purpose. If you're Trying to figure out, okay, I hear you talking about these games and you haven't looked at the schedule. This is the order they are played in. Of all the stuff that GP mentioned. Seven Eastern. Peacock Iowa at Michigan State, seven Eastern. ESPN2 Tennessee at Syracuse. We've had this discussion before. Maybe it's a year ago. I prefer the Orange Syracuse tint of orange to Tennessee's tent of orange. I think you agree with me on that. 7:30 Eastern is Florida at Duke ACC Challenge. And then you've got. Let me get this all in order. Yukon at Kansas, 9 Eastern approximately ESPN2. You've got UNC versus Kentucky, 9:30 Eastern on ESPN. Did I miss a single game? Is that all of them? I feel like I might have missed one in there. Can't remember by the way, like six weeks ago when I was looking at the schedule, maybe not that long ago was before the season started. I was like, I don't know if I'll get to see Purdue for sure before, you know, mid January. So they play at Rutgers. Maybe I'll go to that game. I am not going to Rutgers on Tuesday to see Purdue at Rutgers. That's not happening. This slate is too, too good. Still have never been to Jersey Mike's arena, but I will not be, I will not be ending the spell there. Purdue also plays at Rutgers. Braden Smith could have an insane game but. But unfortunately that matchup isn't at the top of the list. Okay, Parrish, rank, rank the rank the games for you. Watchability, the six you mentioned or the five you mentioned. Most elite even though they're all amazing, how would you rank them? What's number one for you? If you can only watch one game Tuesday night not knowing the outcome, what are you tuning in for?
- [52:55]
B
Is Darren Peterson playing?
- [52:56]
A
Correct. So I talked to Bill Self. I think I mentioned this on the Friday show. He I think behind the scenes they know if Darren Peterson is playing or not. Because he was supposed to get evaluated on Friday. Self wanted him to get a practice in at least before this game. I don't know if he's going to play or not. I am guessing he will play, but I do not know that it's entirely reasonable to say or think, well, do you want to bring him back against a team as good as Yukon right away? Would you rather ease him in against an easier opponent? If you're curious on that. Kansas's next game is against Missouri on Sunday in a rivalry game. I guess it's easier. But then they got NC State. Like he's gonna return against a high major opponent at some point in the next couple of weeks. So if your answer is Connecticut at Kansas knowing if Darren Peterson is playing, that's your answer. But what if I tell you he's not playing? Then what becomes number one for you?
- [53:47]
B
Florida at Duke becomes number one. It's the reigning champs in Cameron indoor Cameron Boozer against his home state school. That's all pretty good stuff. But if you tell me Peterson's playing, I would go Utah at Kansas and then North Carolina at Kentucky I think ranks third of three, but it's still obviously great.
- [54:10]
A
I tell you what, I think I would go regardless of Peterson status. Yukon, Kansas for me is number one. I would go. This is such. Dude, this is such an awesome, awesome night of Hoops GP. I would go UNC Kentucky 2 because there's a lot of in now those two teams have not played to expectation. But that, that's a. That becomes a relatively urgent game on both sides. So I think I put that at two. I actually would. I. This was almost never. I would put Iowa at Michigan State. Three is Iowa for real? We get them in a league game on the second day of December against a Michigan State team that is performing at a top 10 level right now. I would have that ever so narrowly ahead of Florida at Duke. And that's primarily because Duke has been incredible. It gets us on his home floor and Florida has been a little bit underwhelming. And so my expectations for that game are not for Florida to necessarily have it within one possession with 20 seconds to go. I'd love to be wrong, but that's why I would have it narrowly fourth. And then Tennessee at Syracuse is clearly fifth. But regardless, Tennessee is going to go on the road and play a Syracuse team that just played a bunch of teams that were in the same event as Tennessee and now Syracuse has got it, almost won a couple of them. It's got a. There's an urgency there. But that's clearly the fifth one I.
- [55:32]
B
Think I've heard you say. Florida is probably not going to be able to keep it at one possession game every game dating back to the 2025 NC NCAA tournament.
- [55:39]
A
It's working out for me so far right this season.
- [55:41]
B
Yeah, it's working out for you for so working out for you so far. Yeah, I mean UConn Kansas could reasonably be best no matter what because Kansas at home, whether Darren Peterson plays or not, it's, you know, it's still Allen Field House. You still have to pay heed. You think Dan Hurley's Gonna pay heed.
- [56:00]
A
Well, he's already paid he before. These two teams played to a four point result two seasons ago in Kansas almost on the same day. December 1, 2023 they played and I think Hurley paid heed there. It was a really, really good game. And now they, now they've got this home and home going here. So it's great to see these two teams playing each other again and they'll play each other again next season there. We'll see if they can keep it close. That was this 37:3 Yukon team. Oh just as a reminder. Yeah. The one of the most dominant teams we've seen. One of its three losses that season came against Kansas. But that's, that's just a tremendous matchup. Darren Peterson or no Darren Peterson. I think, let me check this. I think this is the only in a stacked non con schedule. I think this is the only roadie for the Huskies. It is because they had BYU in Boston. They just had Illinois in the Garden. They will have Florida in the Garden. The Jamie V next week. I intend to be there. They've got Texas at home. So the, the one true road environment for the Huskies and that should be a, that should be an awesome one. And obviously we will recap all of this on a just an incredible Wednesday. Wednesday Pod. You got anything else or can we just talk Lane Kiffin real quick before we get out of here? Because I actually haven't had Twitter up the entire show. I assume this is a made movement in the past hour, but I don't have that answer.
- [57:15]
B
My understanding by glancing at Twitter every so often is that Lane Kiffin is now LSU's head coach. He will not coach Ole Miss in the playoff.
- [57:25]
A
And Mississippi resident. Take it away real quick. I am actually genuinely we every so often we drift into just a little college football stuff. This is happening in the moment as we're doing this. Pod, your wife is an alum. You have plenty of friends who are alums there. I've got a couple of thoughts but I hand it over to you. What are your just thoughts on on the here and now and over the past, you know, week plus of all this.
- [57:46]
B
I, I say this with no emotion whatsoever. The truth is I am a Mississippi native who still lives in North Mississippi. I grew up a University of Memphis fan. I went to the University of Memphis. My wife is an Ole Miss grad. She doesn't, you know, I mean she's happy when they win if she hears about it, but she doesn't follow it or care too deeply about It. So I say any of this with, with no emotion. I don't think a normal person does this or even considers it every. I think 99% of, of coaches at that level of the sport, like you're already at a power conference school. I think it's a non starter. The timing doesn't work. And you just say, man, I would love that job under different circumstances, but if I have to either take it or leave it right now. And taking it right now means walking around, walking away from a team that is not only a legitimate national championship contender, but is going to host a postseason game, a college football playoff game in the first round, which could reasonably double as the biggest sporting event in the history of the state of Mississippi. As sad as that might sound, it's. It's possibly true. I don't, I don't think a normal person, most normal people could do that. I think they just say, I can't. I'm sorry. It's like the timing just does not, just does not work. Basketball coaches are presented with this type of stuff all the time. I can remember UCLA wanting to talk to Greg Marshall when Wichita State was on the way to going to the Final Four. And not only would he not consider, obviously he would never. Can you imagine? It's you, you're going from the round of 32 to the sweet 16 and in that week you change jobs. Like that's not something that happens. Greg Marshall obviously wouldn't even consider changing jobs in the middle of the NCAA tournament. He wouldn't even talk to them. Was my understanding.
- [59:48]
A
He said, you correct.
- [59:50]
B
Till my season is over and then I'm happy to sit down with you. And if we're like telling the truth, he would have almost certainly been the next head coach at ucla. But he said, I'm not talking to you till this season's over. And they said, we can't wait. And he said, well, you know, I understand and I hope you guys understand. And that was the end of that. I, I don't, I, I never, I never blame another person for taking a better job. I would never want somebody to criticize me for taking better jobs throughout my career. That's all these men are mostly doing most times. This is different. Quitting on a team, quitting on a university that gave you a chance right in the middle of a playoff run. That's, that's bad. That's bad. I don't think many people would do this. I'm, I'm still a little surprised that he did. I thought for a while this is what if you'd asked me last week, here's what I said. Yeah, he wants the LSU job. He would love to take the LSU job. I think he's going to beat Mississippi State, realize what he's going to have to walk away from to take the LSU job and can't pull the trigger because you can't do that. You can't pull the trigger on that. I, I was just wrong because I underestimated just how single minded he is. I, I, I don't, I don't want to use words like the other words people are using, including the word hoe. I'm not going to use that. But I, I don't think a normal person does this. I don't even think a normal person considers this. What do you, what do you make of it?
- [61:14]
A
I find the entire story with Lane Kiffin to be one of the most interesting things in sports of the past few years, honestly. And I'm coming from this as someone who follows a ton of the, you know, business side of college athletics, but is not living or following into day to day just intensity that comes with the sport of college football. This is, I'm going to plug our Cover 3 podcast. Those guys do an awesome job and they've got a tremendously devoted fan base and I know there is some cross listening between our show and their show. Please go find bud Chip. Danny Canel. I think there's another guy on the show. I can't remember, but follow them. They do really, really great work. I'm gonna shout out my guy Fornelli. Fellow, fellow Bears fan. We're just reveling in the nine and three season right now. Josh, in our private chat says Tom Fornelli. Josh, it was a joke. I know that. Four, Nelli's on the show.
- [62:16]
B
You ever stop doing that, like naming people and then you get, you really do get stuck. Oh, like I, I did it one time, I was like, yeah, and I'll be, I'll be on set tomorrow with so and so so and so. And it was like, oh, no, I don't know who the other person is.
- [62:30]
A
Yeah. But anyway, so my, my view on this is, is kind of being, is, is at some remove not just from living in SEC territory, it's just not living day by day with college football. So a couple things, One, when Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for lsu, that, that immediately had really weird vibes and reception to it. And Kelly never really outran the oddity of him taking that job. And ultimately, you know, they didn't win enough and that's why he got fired. But there was a, there was a thrum constantly connected to that that he couldn't outpace. I'm getting similar pulsations off of this with Lane Kiffin. He's a really, really good coach. That LSU job is considered top three, top four in the sport. I get all that. But sometimes the nature in which you take a job in college athletics almost seems to affect separate to how good of a coach you are, how good you do with that particular job. You know, I posted this earlier on, on Blue Sky Today. I'm curious if you could go back and look at, you know, the past 30 years in college football and college basketball at the high major level. When a coach is in a good spot, has overachieved but then opts to take a chance on what's perceived to be a better job. I don't have the answer. I, I'm genuinely curious. It would take a bit of research to find this out. How often does that actually work out? Like sometimes it does. And I'm not talking about like the no brainer ones. I'm talking about the ones where you can make the case to go either way or when you leave, it's under circumstances that might cause the fan base that you're leaving behind to not like you. Like right now. This year we had this with Kevin Willard and with everything that Kevin Willard went through, you know, we thought that his was among the most publicly awkward and I don't want to say inappropriate because I didn't think it was inappropriate as a media member. I'll repeat now what I said then. I will take any coach on the record saying anything that gives us things to talk about and as a real insight into their, their honest mind as possible. And Willard did that. Lane did not do that here. Elena Kiffin has undergone what appears to be a pretty substantial image rehab over the past couple of years and now by nature of saying I'm gonna take this LSU job because on some level I feel like I have a much better chance at having a better coaching career. I'm just going to toss all this Ole Miss stuff to the side. It feels borderline crass. And you know, I'm actually, I, I appreciate you saying what you said GP because I think sometimes on some of these issues I might have a little bit more of an older, not sentimentality to it, but I don't know how to phrase what I want to say here. But he's got a team in the midst of its best season ever and now he is walking away again. I haven't checked the stuff that's transpired in the past hour when I know there's been a team meeting, how much of the staff he's taking away, how that actually should, would or won't affect how Ole Miss gets seated in the CFP is a very real conversation. Now that that Lane Kiffin has put upon that program in the committee. Are you trading that are like are you ever gonna have a season that is ever as good or feels as high as the high as you are right now feeling with Ole Miss and what you have done for that fan base and that region? I have significant doubts like, you know, I know that what three coaches have won a national championship at LSU in the past 20, 25 years, whatever it is, and it's such a high level job. I get all that. What are you trading off for? And, and is it ultimately truly like is this worth it? Because Lane Kiffin is going like his reputation was already mixed to begin with and now for everyone, the but the exception of one fan base which may well turn on him in less than three years time, is this, is this actually worth the exchange? I, I, I, I'm super interested, fascinated by it. But he does not come off looking well whatsoever. I heard people saying, I'll let you take it back your gp. I heard people saying as recently as four or five days ago that Lane Kiffin was handling this about as well as you could ask him to. Well, if that was true, that has gone entirely out the window in the past 48 hours or so. And to leave like those players, like maybe they went in spite of him, I don't know. But you are a pull. You are abandoning ship on a season in which you were on the brink of doing something that was borderline unthinkable for that university. It's kind of gross to be honest, but I don't fault him for taking the bigger job. I get all that, but I thought this was just badly mishandled and, and yeah, good. Right or otherwise. Right, wrong or otherwise. He, he remains a fascinating, fascinating character dating back to when this whole thing starts, essentially when he got the Raiders job at like 31 and then he got very famously, very publicly fired by Al Davis. If you just track Lane Kiffin's career since then, it has been unlike anything else we have seen in American coaching legacies.
- [67:35]
B
Pete Golding, the defensive coordinator, has been named the full time permanent head coach at Ole Miss. So they're not doing an interim thing. This is try to, this is an attempt to try to keep players and coaching staff available for the playoff. You. You mentioned how the committee will view this. Hunter Yurichik is the Arkansas athletic director, and he was talking about this last week publicly and said that Ole Miss would not be punished by the committee, in his opinion, if Lane Kiffin were to leave before the playoff. Which is fine, but, like, wrong.
- [68:10]
A
I, I mean, it's an impossible situation because on one hand, Parrish, my thought is this is not the players doing whatsoever and they do not deserve to get punished. Like, this is entirely on Lane Kiffin. But on the other hand, if you are a committee and you are evaluating and you do not have your head coach anymore, let alone any other potential staff members, how can you not say that affects where they should stand in the seating? There's no right answer to it, no wrong answer, I guess. But the players don't deserve to have their seating knocked because Lane Kiffin said, see ya.
- [68:38]
B
That's a valid argument that I'm open to. When I say wrong, what I mean is inconsistent, because just two years ago, Florida State lost its quarterback. And it's the same logic, hey, Mike Norvell, those other Florida State players, they didn't do anything to deserve that. They were still undefeated. But the committee looked at it and said, man, you're not the same thing. You don't have that guy. So how can you look at Florida State and say you're not the same team without your quarterback, so we must punish you and then look at Ole Miss and not apply the exact same logic? Ole Miss is not the same team without Lane Kiffin. I mean, just that's. If it didn't matter whether Lane Kiffin was there or not, you wouldn't have three schools trying to make him the highest paid coach in college football. All right? He matters. So I, I'm glad for Ole Miss's sake that they will not, at least according to Hunter Yurichick, be punished by the committee. But it's logically inconsistent to what they just did with Florida State a couple of years ago. Like you, I don't blame, and at the risk of repeating myself, Lane or anybody else for taking a bigger job, the truth is this could have been much cleaner if Ole Miss was just not as good. Like if Instead of being 11 and 1, they were 8 and 4, 9 and. Or instead of 11 and 1, they're 8 and 4, 9 and 3, then you win the Egg bowl, you tell your team you're off to lsu. What are you going to do? Miss Ole Miss playing in The Cotton bowl or something like, who cares? That's pretty normal. Once you're eliminated from national championship contention, what football coaches have told us for a while is you're free to go. That's fine, but not while you're still in it. Not while you're still in it. Not why you still got a shot to. To win the whole thing. A realistic shot to win the whole thing. And I know that some people argue, like, there could be a Group of 5 coach in this college Football playoff who still technically has a chance to win the championship and is already going to be off to his new job. And I don't love that either.
- [70:31]
A
But I think that's happening, though, right? I'm talking off the top of my dome. But aren't those play like John Summerall, right, if he goes to Florida and they have a chance, like, I think they're still going to coach with their teams in the play. I could be wrong on that, but I thought that. I thought there was a differentiation there. So I might be speaking out there.
- [70:45]
B
I don't know that it's understood yet exactly which coaches are going to be allowed to do what and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and how long they're going to be able to do it. But I would even listen to that. Like, I think that's different than if you're Ole Miss coming out of the SEC with 11 wins and you're Tulane coming out of the American, where it's awesome that you get that spot. But, Buddy, we know you're not really winning the whole thing at Ole Miss right now. There's reasons to believe they could really go win the whole thing. They will be seated in a way that suggests they can go win the whole thing. And I just. I really do believe that nothing else matters other than that it doesn't matter to me. It wouldn't matter what job I wanted, how much money. I. I can't walk away in the middle of this still happen. I just can't, period. And I say the same thing. And I'm not trying to make it apples. Apples, because it's clearly not. But, like, I talk to my. My kids about this kind of stuff. Like, hey, you play for this baseball team. It's cool that that baseball team wants you to come play for them. But our season is still going on, and you made a commitment and you told your teammates you'd be there. You told your coaches you'd be there, and you're going to see this thing through. And then whatever happens when it's over, Happens when it's over. But you're going to see the thing through to the end as long as you're still playing for a championship. There's a reason why it took till 2025 for a football coach to do this. Some of it is because the 12 team playoff complicates the schedule. You know, some of it is the way contracts are written. There's a lot of reasons we got to this point. It's not all Lane Kiffin, but I do not believe many, if any, other coaches would handle this situation the way Linkifin has handled it. You, you have. And, and that's the other thing you mentioned earlier. Like, do you really want people that wouldn't matter to me too, for the rest of your life, this is who you're going to be known as. Right now. Every fan base in America thinks you're, you know, whatever. You can use whatever term you want to use, and there's one that adores you right now, but they'll turn on you just as quick as they turn on everybody else. And here's the other thing. Just sort of play it out. You go to LSU and now you can recruit better high school players. Awesome. Does it mean you're ever going to have a better team than the one you've got at Ole Miss right now? Not necessarily. And even if you do, okay, you win a national championship. Lsu, yeah. Ed Orgeron did that. Whatever. You'll still be known as the guy who walked away from a championship contender at Ole Miss more than you're known as the guy who did great things at lsu. And oh, by the way, like, better jobs don't always, as I just said, give you an opportunity to, to, to, to get better results. I mean, I guess they give you the opportunity, but they don't guarantee him. Why was Chris Mack amazing at Xavier and not, not, not nearly as amazing at Louisville? Why was Archie Miller amazing at Dayton? Not nearly as amazing at Indiana? Shaka Smart kills it at vcu, not so much at Texas. I mean, you want me to keep going? This is, this is sports. Men doing amazing things, coaches doing amazing things at good jobs. Oh, but I gotta take the next one. And it doesn't always work out. Sometimes it clearly does, but it doesn't always work out. There's just no way I would have done this. We can keep talking for another hour. I will always settle on this point. Even if it was my dream to coach at lsu, they made me the highest paid coach in America and I knew factually I could get a better caliber of football player. All of that is trumped by but it requires me to walk away from a championship contender and I will have that regret for the rest of my life. I've already got enough regrets. I don't need to add another one. I'm gonna stick it out at Ole Miss. And hey, life's not so bad. I'm living in Oxford making $13 million and you know what? I might go actually win the national championship. I just couldn't do it. That's as simple as I can say.
- [74:44]
A
He is trading off a real possibility of winning a national title this year for the hope that he will be able to do it at LSU with no guarantee of doing it. And then as you said, even if he gets one is one at lsu. I would argue you might need four at LSU to equal one at Ole Miss for national championships. You might need six at LSU considering that place he posted Kiffin did Since we've been live and we will wrap in just a second here, but I have to, I have to comment on this. He posted a statement here and he said, I was hoping to complete a historic six season run with this year's team led by by leading Ole Miss through the playoffs, capitalizing on the team's incredible success and their commitment to finish strong and investing everything into a playoff run with guardrails in place to protect the program in any areas of concern. My request to do so was denied by Keith Carter despite the team also asking him to allow me to keep coaching them so they could better maintain their high level performance. End quote. There's more stuff on that. Dude, you make the decision to do this, you're not coaching the team. You're in. You're. You're in league, you're going to lsu. Your priorities are already split at absolute best. You are asking for the biggest mess ever if and when Ole Miss were to lose in the playoff as a result of this Lane Kiffin doesn't deserve to coach the team. Like it is unfair to the players that they don't have their head coach. But you can't have Link Kiffin running the program and also being the coach at LSU at the same time. It is untenable. Keith Carter, the ad, I don't know him at all. He made the absolute right call here and careful what you wish for. This has weird. LSU is known for a place for voodoo in general. This has weird voodoo juju. The whole thing. I don't like the terms under which he's taking the job and if you told me he was A vast disappointment relative to what he did at Ole miss. I would 100 believe you. The way this whole thing is starting just doesn't sit well with me at all. Some people say he's a great coach. Doesn't matter. You get two, three years and you get the players, and they'll be just fine. Maybe, but. I don't know. Different situation, but same vibes overall as Brian Kelly. You saw how it all ended, how weird it got at LSU with that Lane Kiffin is opting into that. Maybe on some level, the two sides are meant for each other.
- [76:49]
B
No scenario where I would allow him to continue coaching Ole Miss, in part because it would be wildly unpopular with my fan base. And I'm the one that's got to stick around with my fan base. Buddy, you're off and gone, but I got to do. I'm. I got stuck here in Oxford, all right? And I got to deal with the fans, and the fans hate your guts right now, and. And I. I would be next on the chopping block if I allowed you to continue. That's just one reason. The other reasons are I don't want you around my players. And then you're trying to take. I can't trust you anymore, man. All right? So thank you for your time, sir, but your time has been served. It's time to go. And frankly, like, I don't want to. I don't like to make a habit of criticizing other people on television, but I thought that was a bad spot on game day on Saturday morning, where basically the entire. The people who spoke about it endorsed the idea of Lane continuing to coach Ole Miss even if he leaves for LSU and nobody on that desk pushed back on it. And I think that's a. A byproduct of. You've got too many people on that desk who have too close of a relationship to Lane Kiffin or represented by the same people, but that was that. That is where what we were watching on TV did not line up with reality at all. The people on TV were saying, I don't know why Ole Miss just doesn't let him keep coaching. You got to think about the big picture and what's best for Ole Miss. And the whole rest of the world is like, are you crazy? Absolutely not, bro. You've already screwed this up. Get out of here. If. If whatever happens next, happens next, but it will happen without you. I don't know. I. I do know why the people on television said otherwise, but that was wrong, and they shouldn't have said that. You can Sometimes, yeah, you can sometimes.
- [78:30]
A
Do, you know, say less ones that we. Let's wrap. But I did actually meant. Meant to mention this 10 minutes ago and in the midst of talking about it, I had neglected to. This did happen in college basketball. It was 1989. Bill Frieder was the coach at Michigan. His AD, Bo Schembecker found out. He interviewed and intended to take the Arizona State job. This was in the midst of the NCAA tournament. Frieder was summarily fired, I guess. And then he goes off to Arizona State to the point of what we've been talking about with all this stuff. Check out Frieder Square. Thereafter, Steve Fisher takes over at Michigan, winds up being the coach of the Fab Five. All that stuff. Michigan, you know, makes a run there. And so we. That's the one parallel. That's the one. It is still different, but it is the one parallel where that got out a much very different media time. And they said, see ya. And it's the closest one in college troops. It's not like Sean Miller leaving Xavier for Texas, although even that one had some quasi similar vibes in terms of one program for another. But we don't get this a lot. It's a lot of. It's the college football calendar that induces it. But that's not absolving Lincoln for what he's doing, not blaming the college football calendar for this. You could have chosen to stay on and try and make history at Ole Miss and told lsu, you want me, you're going to wait till the playoff run ends. If that. Does that make it easy for you because of recruiting and all that, fine, then get someone else. He opted not to do that. He opted in take a hike. He's out of Oxford.
- [79:45]
B
The bill for your thing and then we'll. And then we'll for real, get out of here. Because I went back and read about it, just to remind myself, because I knew I'd be talking about this stuff. You're exactly right. He privately accepted the like. Agreed wink and a nod. When this is over, I'm coming to Arizona State. I don't really remember. I remember it, but I don't remember the details because I was like 12. But apparently there had been budget cuts with Bo Schembleckler taking money and pushing it to football at the expense of basketball. They had gone from some charters to some commercials, that kind of stuff. And Bill was like, at Arizona State, they're. They're recruiting me. They're giving me everything. So it was kind of like behind the scenes. Yeah, when this is over, I'm coming with you guys. And then it got out. And what I read was Bill didn't want to lie to anybody. He was like, I didn't want this to get out, but I'm also not going to be a liar. And he thought I could just tell his team and everybody, like, listen, I'm. I'm going to take this job when this is over, and here's why, and you'll understand. And. And when Michigan found out about it, they just said, no, you're not. You're. You're gone now, and we'll. We'll play. We'll play the rest of this without you. And famously, Becker said, a Michigan man will coach Michigan, and then Steve Fisher wins the national championship. And Bill Free. That's a story forever. So the difference here is that by the time Lane accepted the LSU job, he knew, if you do this, you're done here. And he chose to do it anyway. Bill kind of accepted Arizona State under the idea of, I'm gonna keep coaching through the end of the season. And then it. It went the way it went. So. So. So that's the difference. And if I were Keith Carter, I would quote, he quote, tweet Lane Kiffin, and I would just like, quote, an Ole Miss man will coach Ole Miss. That's all you got to say. And your fans will rally around that. And. And it. That'll be now. This is an opportunity for Keith Carter to make himself more popular with the fan base. And the first step in doing that is telling Lane, Kevin to get out of Oxford. You could. Anything. Anything short of that would have been a catastrophically wrong decision, if that's a phrase that even makes sense. Let's go.
- [81:55]
A
Let's go. Thank you for indulging. It was just. It was such a huge. It's such a huge story in our industry that I felt compelled to at least talk about it. We had plenty of time on a Sunday afternoon. So you didn't mind the. The venture into college football stuff. This has obviously got our. Our industry just a flame right now, because it's just. It's wild. So, yeah, let's get out of here. I appreciate you, GP and we'll talk again Wednesday morning. To recap a year huge Tuesday night.
- [82:19]
B
It's a college football story, but it's a college athletic story. And again, the equivalent of this would kind of be somebody winning around a 64 game, around a 32 game, and then before coaching in the Sweet 16, taking another job at a conference rival, and then being told you're not coaching the rest of this NCAA tournament. That's like kind of, kind of what we're experiencing is a, it's a one of one story right, right now. Shouts to Devin Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Terry Teagle's a legend. Hulk Larnell. Thank you guys once again for watching. Listening to the I own College Basketball podcast. You're not subscribed. Please go subscribe anywhere you subscribe to podcasts, Apple, Spotify. There's more of us than there are of them. That should be reflected in the comments. So do that. We'll talk to you again real soon. Till then, take care.
- [83:17]
A
Paramount Podcasts CBS Wednesdays I run to.
- [83:23]
B
The chaos and Survivor is chaos. As a mother of a four year old, this is vacation.
- [83:29]
A
This season.
- [83:30]
B
They're going back home.
- [83:31]
A
It's trial by the elements. Surprise. I'm on surprise. Survivor. That's how you do it. Survivor feels like a culmination of my entire life.
- [83:40]
B
Everything has led to this moment.
- [83:43]
A
Who will have what it takes? Survivor new CBS Wednesdays at 8, 7 Central and streaming on Paramount.
- [83:49]
B
Plus.