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Eye On College Basketball
More May fallout: The REAL reasons he’s leaving Michigan and where Wolverines go from here
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A casually urgent podcast. Norlander here with you, gp. I hope you're somewhere in the air right now. We wanted to do a secondary episode with me and GP together at some point here on Monday night. Talk about Dusty May leaving Michigan to take the Dallas Mavericks job. There's now no clear indication on one GP will be at his hotel. He is going to be in studio. At least that's the plan. Me, him, Adam Finkelstein, Hakeem Dermish, Chris Williamson, we'll be taking you through draft night on CBS Sports hq. I highly encourage that. You know what, I'll promo that on the back end of this episode here, but I've got more information, context, a lot to say about this Dusty May news. GP did handle the emergency responsibilities earlier on Monday. If you're getting to both of these late after the fact, well, we, we appreciate you getting to them and hope you appreciate that we're trying to give you some good stuff here. If anyone in the live chat on YouTube, smash the like button, Brandon Davies, all that good stuff. If you've got any questions that I don't answer with my recap here, I'll try and get to a couple, a couple of them before the end of the show. But let's dive into it because it has been, it has been a day. On a personal note, was out on a run. I was about two miles from my house when I got one text and another and then another and another and another and another and they all started coming in and I was, I was Caught flat footed, metaphorically speaking, the Dusty news landing the way that it did. You know, interestingly enough, John Shire was in there and I knew that he was in there and I had not been told as of this morning that, you know, he had kind of moved along from that search. But I do think there's a real scenario in which if John Shire pulls that out to the, to its full extent, maybe we're talking about Duke's coach being the head coach of the Mavericks and not Michigan's coach. But John Shire still has unfinished business and, and is still looking to do more at the college level, particularly with the ties to his Alma material. Dusty May is going to get, go ahead and get this done here and try and, and try and really make the vault, the leap to the NBA and make it last and be more like a Brad Stevens than coincidentally enough, John Beeline, who was the most recent sitting college coach to go to the Pros. That was seven years ago in 2019. It did not work out well. He did not last a full season. Cleveland. No one expects that to be the case with Dusty and the Dallas Mavericks. I'll get to the NBA side of this in just a little bit here. As for the timeline, Dusty met with Mavericks leadership over the weekend, came to his final conclusion on Sunday that he was going to do this. As you would expect, these are not easy decisions. But and I've got a big story up on this right now, Josh. We can throw this into this all, all pod descriptions after the fact on just a bit more perspective on how and why Dusty May was going to inevitably get to this point. But it is on an accelerated timeline. So some of the short of this is the past two and a half months since they won the national title, life's been grand for Dusty May and that coaching staff in a lot of ways. But also in many ways it, it has been eye opening in terms of just how much has not changed. And that was previously depicted in a story I did back in April that we talked about on the show when I sat down with Dusty. But there were elements that conversation that I had with him then that I didn't reveal. But now that he's going to the NBA, well, he's going to the NBA. So they don't need to be covered up so much anymore. And one of them was at one point I asked Dusty directly, do you think you will still be coaching at Michigan in college, you know, three or four years from now? And I remember the way he looked at me when he answered it. And it Was it was a no. I'm not sure how much longer I can do this kind of answer. And got into just all a lot of the particulars when it comes to like it is so taxing as a human being to have to constantly like way, way, way more many days in the year than not just be worrying and checking in on your roster and, and everything that comes with that because there's never been obviously a more uncertain time. There's just so much tumult and turbulence with roster changeover and staffs are constantly, they're just always on alert like in the middle of the season. Might we be losing this player for this reason or this player that reason? Are they, are they okay? But are their parents pissed off? And there's just one thing after another and that was. That's always been something of a feature with college coaching but it's never been as tenuous as it is right now. So when I left that meeting with dusty back in St. Louis when he was getting the Coach of the Year award at the USBWA year end dinner, I remember thinking to myself I bet you he's gone in a year like Michigan will probably. I didn't know what the roster situation would be, you know, flash forward a month from then. But I remember thinking they'll probably get enough done. They're probably going to be a top 20 team again. They do that and you have a good season, more jobs open. Like I bet you he probably tries to go in a year. Well, Dallas opens up, Messiah Jerry gets hired and Jason kids out. As I understand it, Jason kid obviously wanted even more say over all the roster stuff that was not going to happen with my Messiah Jerry and how his operation operations run and Dallas goes through the coaching search, Dusty May still there and suddenly finds himself like significantly and seriously involved. If you want even another peek behind the curtain on some of this stuff. Dusty May did not have an agent and there are a few head coaches in college basketball high major coaches who do not have formal representation. And he had recently gotten rid of one of his agents and was just gonna not essentially not hire an agent if he was as long as he was in college. But a couple weeks ago he just sensed the landscape, got some signals on some potential NBA stuff and said I need to, to make sure that I've got representation here in case nothing real happens. And sure enough, that's exactly the way that it went. His rise is unparalleled 28 months ago at FA, at FAU. I mean to go from that to getting that program to the final Four to bypassing any coaching opportunities that year to run it back with that same roster, then getting the Michigan job doing what he did. How about this? When he got the Michigan job, it was. I almost feel like it speaks to how great he has been that it's not that we've memory hold it, but the program was a quagmire in the final months slash years under Juwan Howard. Eight wins that final season. You go flash forward to two years ahead, 36 wins. It's the largest two year win improvement in the history of men's D1. Dusty May was at the helm of that. Incredibly impressive what he did in the Michigan. Interestingly enough, you know, Jim Harbaugh wins the 2023 national title, goes off and goes to the NFL. And now you got Dusty May doing it men's basketball and he's going off to the NBA. So Michigan's had some really high highs and then some really. I had to pay the, a steep price there for all of that sexual success from the head coaching position in general. The, the fact that he has done this and done it this quickly, I think even he would be surprised by it. He does get to just focus on the coaching element of it. And I think that ties into a lot of what I wrote about earlier today. You know, when you're an NBA coach, it's not guaranteed to be a better life than a college coach. There are pros and cons to both of these things. And with Dusty, who is just obsessed with basketball but wants it to be about studying the game, studying it up, coaching the game, just getting in all the nitty gritty and not just dealing with all the other stuff, not having to do all of these fundraising things that now are part of the job. I had another head coach in the Big Ten I saw at the Final Four. And to paraphrase what we got to talking about what he told me, he said, what have you been doing? Fundraising. That's all my job is, all I do is fundraise. It's fundraise, fundraise, fundraise and roster retention. That's all it is. And there's a lot of guys who, understandably so in this profession, like that's not fun. Some guys are very good at it naturally. Like they can do it and it's part of the gig now. But a lot of guys, it's not what they want to do at all. At all. And while Dusty May was good enough at it, it's not what he's interested in. It's not what he wants to do. And so now he can go and just coach ball. He doesn't have to worry about the team in terms of recruiting. Not a thing anymore. He won't pick the roster. Masai Ujiri will determine every single piece of player personnel. He'll take some input from everyone. But like talking around the league like it is his shop. He rules with an iron fist. In fact, I even had one person, really two, but one person at the NBA level that was like, does Dusty realize, you know, Dallas is not. And they got Cooper Flag. That's great. But is Kyrie going to be there? Is he going to be. How's he going to handle coaching Kyrie now? Dusty is extremely talented in terms of a people person. Figure things out. I think he probably will. But two sources I spoke with earlier today with NBA connections just painted a picture of like Dallas is in many ways has not become a desirable location whatsoever for a lot. In fact, you know, one person was saying like this, if Cooper Flag beyond Cooper Flag, like why wasn't there a hire made before this? Why weren't we seeing more proven commodities at the NBA level get this job? The Mavericks, since Cuban sold the majority of the franchise at the end of 2023, they had a good run to make the finals, but obviously non competitive there. Lost against Boston. They trade Luca, that whole disaster. Then they win the lottery, they get flagged, which is a heck of a make a make do for. It doesn't matter because Nico gets fired anyway. All of what, eight months ago, nine months ago. this point they trade Anthony Davis as a, as a function of that trade. He's not even on the team anymore. Gets shipped to Washington and now Messiah Jerry is in there. So we'll see what Dusty can do at the NBA level. I think he's got a healthy shot at doing a good job, but there's no assurance or guarantee that he will. And hey, maybe it doesn't go well and if it doesn't and he's out of a job in three years, maybe three years. Please let it be three years down the road where college basketball is collectively is in a better situation than where it is in 2026. And just in terms of stability overall. But that was, it was a major motivating factor like checking with multiple people on Monday. It was the opportunity to coach the NBA level. And that's kind of landing in his lap and being like, whoa, I got this now here. Like, I kind of think I got to go and do it. I think he would have had opportunities. A year from now, we'll never know what those might be. But the fact that he didn't now this deep into the off season before the day before the draft. By the way, everyone was waiting for the Giannis trade to commence at some point today and instead it's the Dusty man line that just takes it over entirely there. I'm. I'm just so interested to see how this works with Dusty coaching Cooper Flag, obviously with all the Duke connections there and Shire like I think there was a little bit of a faction there that was wondering if it was Shire was actually going to make the leap right then, right there. It's not going to happen. Instead, Dusty's going to get it and you know, have we seen him coach his last game in college? Is this it? FA to the final four, MI to the national championship. What an interesting college career this is. He's 49 years old. There's so much of his coaching life that's still ahead of him. So I don't know. We wait and see. He has the temperament for it. He definitely does. Just the way he comports himself in the locker room with his team on the sidelines like that has just caught the attention since he took FAU to the Final Four. NBA people have noticed that and he has connections in that league and he is embedded himself and is really a sponge when it comes to learning with a lot of this stuff. But it is still the way the news landed was surprising. The fact that he's doing it does not surprise me, but I'm drawing off of my previous conversations with him on this. On a personal note, it is a major stinger that he's leaving college basketball like it's just one after another. As I detailed in the story earlier today, if you the six most notable slash accomplished coaches that have now found an escape route on an accelerated timeline versus what they otherwise would have done if things had remained normal. Starts with Ward WILLIAMS Back in 21, Mike Jashevsky thereafter that I know Shashevsky was in his 70s, but quite clearly, I mean he's been public about this. It was a lot of the changes in the game that I think just got him there a year or two or three beyond what I think he would have normally done. You've obviously got Jay Wright been very vocal about it, Tony Bennett who could not be happier with his decision. I checked in with Tony earlier this spring and he's very much loving his life not having to deal with all of this. And then Bruce Pearl just last off season right on the doorstep of the season and now you get Dusty May. There have been some others. There's going to be more that are coming behind him like Dusty May is not going to be the last one. If you told me we had another coach before we get to next season that does this, I would still believe you. We are almost being conditioned to it. So I don't know if legislation at the congressional level 1A will even happen and B, if it does, can it just bring a little bit more reliability and consistency to college basketball? If it can, then the sport will have a much better chance of keeping its biggest names, its most accomplished coaches there for the longer haul. Otherwise, I do think this is just we're going to be firing up emergency pods once or twice a year talking about a coach that left that either retired or left college basketball X number of years ahead of time because of where we're at. This is just going to be the pace that we're dealing with here. And I think when you look around, I was talking to source earlier today, Todd Golden, Nate Oates, Tommy Lloyd, run on down the list, perhaps Ben McCollum one day these guys could eventually get their NBA job opportunities as well. Especially if we see Dusty really hit it with Dallas and can find some real success. Year one that doesn't look like it's going to happen. But year two, year three, what can they do? What, what do we see with all that? So that's the Dusty end of it. Let's see what comes next with him. And college basketball loses one of its most accomplished up and coming like faces of the game. He was supposed to be part of this next generation of coaches that were going to be among the five or six, you know, most prominent voices in the game. That's not going to happen. At least not going to happen for the short term. He can always return to college if it doesn't work out. If it does not work out, get right. His name will be at the top of every list as he is rightly earned. And I can already, I can already hear the Indiana fans like they're just hoping like the 2029 coaching cycle can already, you can already see it over the horizon at this point. We'll wait and see on all that. I do have a few questions here in the live chat. I will talk about the Michigan situation moving forward after the break. First, Josh, let's take a quick, quick word, take a quick break from, from our partners here and then we'll talk to Michigan and the point and end after the break in sports the tape never tells the whole story. Hiring is no different. AI can make candidates look like an MVP on paper, so knowing the person and the skills behind the resume really matters. That's where Robert Half changes the game. Our recruiters combine their expertise with award winning AI to evaluate skills and fit quickly. Learn how we can find you specialized talent in finance, accounting, technology and more at Robert Half. We know talent. Visit roberthalf.com talent today as the summer
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What remains to be seen is if Boynton will be the interim head coach with that title for all of next season or if in the days or weeks to come they actually remove that title from him and designate him the head coach under some sort of extremely, extremely school friendly kind of contract. Coincidentally enough, this is now the second time Boynton has found himself in this situation. The college diehards obviously are aware of this, but if you're not aware Boynton was Brad Underwood's top lieutenant when they were at Oklahoma State. Brad Underwood did a nice job in year one at OSU that they were not remotely interested in trying to renegotiate Underwood's contract. Illinois said, hey, we'll, we'll take you, you want to come coach for us? They gave him a massive pay bump. He went to Illinois. It's working out just beautifully for both parties there. Boynton meantime, got the Oklahoma State job, inherited it under not ideal circumstances, completely underrelated to his time there. Oklahoma State got caught up in the FBI scandal. Yes, all way back when. Former assistant coach got, got caught up and was arrested and, and served jail time. That led to the NCAA instituting a postseason ban for Oklahoma State for the NCAA tournament one year. It remains the most recent example of the NCAA laying down. It might be a postseason ban in all sports, but it is definitely the most recent postseason ban in a major American college sports. At this point. Boynton was in charge there. He had Kate Cunningham during the COVID year they made the tournament. Had themselves a nice season but overall 119 and 109 in seven seasons. There were some, you know, some understandable challenges. Did he knock it out of the park? No, he did not. He was fired just a couple of years ago and he, he goes on with, with, with Dusty and is regarded as one of the best assistants in the country now and, and will like. It's funny, if we were doing this podcast three days ago, I would have said Mike Boynton will be a head coach again. He, he was going to be one anyway. I think next season he was going to, to take a job provided Michigan was of top 20 quality, let alone top 5 quality. And now here he's got the opportunity. I see a few questions and I'll get to that as well. But let me see if I can touch on some of these things before I get to that as you would expect, Boynton and that staff. I've spent the entire day talking to players, talking to parents, talking to the players, agents. I don't know who, if anyone is going to go with Dusty to the Mavericks. They that's not going to be decided, at least in those circles there, let alone publicly acknowledge for a good while here. Because Boynton needs to retain the roster and any indication that anyone else is leaving the program will give even more reason for any of these players to potentially go in the portal. They've got 15 days to do so. You best believe there are a couple of players right now that are being hit up heavily to see if they can be swayed to go to another school. Michigan's not going to lose its whole roster. You know, I might not lose anyone, but if it were to lose players, it probably doesn't lose more than 2. The value of the players that they lose, if they lose obviously is very significant and could swing. The way we look at, we look at Michigan just in general, so we wait on updates on that. I did see Josh, Trey McKinney posted basically saying like I'm not going anywhere. Victory always stay. Hashtag ha1l hail hashtag oh blue. So Trey McKinney not going anywhere, nor was he expected to. La Cado is obviously the big one and while I don't think he is definitively said he's coming back at this point, I think the hope and feel right now is that he will. But we'll see. We're talking about the final four mop and the most crucial player on that roster next season overall. I'll get to a couple questions here. Someone with a handle that's got a bunch of X's and why's it asks, do you think hiring Boynton will help with roster retention? Yes, it is necessary for roster retention. I said this on HQ earlier today, having been around that program a lot, in a lot of different scenarios and situations, practices on the road, et cetera, et cetera, locker rooms, it will be different because Dusty is no longer there. But the day to day of how things work like Mike Boynton had such a huge presence with that program. Critical, critical presence when it came to recruiting and just relationships and all that. So in many ways for the guys especially who were there last season are carrying over, over, it will be different because Dusty's not the guy talking and leading, you know, the last one you're gonna hear from before you go out and play a game and leading the talk in the locker room and all that stuff. And so Many of the meetings they're just as familiar with Mike Boynton style Mike Boynton's voices in general as anything else. So we wait and see on on that Jim H4ils where does the Michigan side play into all of this? Were they caught off guard? Did they work to keep him at Michigan? I don't think they had time to work to keep him at Michigan. They weren't caught off guard in that. I I believe Ward Manual and the university president had would have had an idea that he was interviewing with the Mavericks and all that but this does seem like it came together relatively quickly and at a certain point like if you're going to take you're going to take the Dallas job you're going to take it. He had actually Dusty while they had verbally agreed to a contract extension all that stuff it was already going to take a while just the way that Michigan does things for better or for worse it was just going to take a long time to get that contract ironed out. Part of that was Dusty didn't have an agent representing him through most of this and and there just wasn't an expectation that the new contract for Dusty May was even going to come to fruition new terms all that stuff until deeper into the summer. Now it's off the table in general. Five million dollar buyout Dallas will pay to to bring Dusty down to to Big D. Someone asked what is the most likely landing spot for Nicola Costa Rica as a Kentucky fan should I even want him to come? We have a log jam wing at this we're not going to get into Michigan. What has been recruiting him as well I don't know where he's going to land so I I don't know but I understand why you the question there someone says I don't see Shire leaving Duke until he at least gets to a title appearance or better maybe I do think if Duke had won a national championship this year last this is my opinion I've been told this this is my opinion reading the situation if John Shire has a national championship I think John Shire is the coach of the Mavericks right now but he doesn't and he's not so we'll. We'll never know if May comes back Chances are he comes back to Michigan. One person posits maybe we'll see. I don't know that that'll that all depends. Someone Tyler asked can you speak to Dusty's ability to tailor his system to his roster and how that could translate in Dallas with Cooper? Dusty May is going to I would think bring some stuff over for Michigan. But this dude and just talking to him over the years and talking some ball and some X and O. And I'm not the kind of guy that ever pretends to be on the level with coaches because I'm not, not even close. But I try and genuinely sit down and have an understanding of because in some ways basketball is a very easy game to understand and learn. And there are other ways where they're like there's real layers to it. And it gets really f. Fascinating how you can look into different schemes, why you run stuff depending on personality. You've got what works, what doesn't work, what might work one year doesn't work another year. And Dusty May has a proverbial playbook that's, you know, just 10 inches deep. And he's, he's going to, I'm sure poured in plenty. And then the staff that he hires and who he brings over, like he is going to be very, very willing to have other people speak up and help him with all that. So it's a good question. Who the heck knows at this point? I would, I would assume that was part of the hiring process and wanting to know that from Dusty's end on it. So we'll, we'll wait and see on that part of it. Such a noisy day, such a big day. We wait on Michigan roster situation. What do you do rankings wise with this team with Boynton, you know, running the program, it's entirely fair to knock them down. Like it doesn't really matter right now in June or whatever. Like they'll get adjusted. You have your offseason rankings. I'm assuming GP will eventually at some point update his rankings to see there. But it does shift the national landscape just a little bit. Like I hope they can keep the whole roster together only because I want to see, I want to now see what Michigan is with Boynton running the show with the same roster they would have had with Dusty in charge of everything. And if you've got, if you're watching here on YouTube, we've got the incoming Michigan basketball class. Just as a reminder, JP Estrella via Tennessee, Mustafa Chom from Cincinnati. If he stays on, I think he can be an extremely, extremely impactful player. Brandon McCoy Jr. Is the big high school player to know about. They think he can be like a massively important, like potentially one of the 10 most important players in the Big Ten next season. So he's gonna. His commitment or recommitment and reinforcement at I think is. Is very, very important there. Michigan Wolverines QG8 ze Heck of a handle says if nobody transfers, is Michigan still a legit title contender? What? Just considering what just happened, that's a big question. I. I can't say that. I can't say yes for sure right now. I just. I need to see how the operation now runs with Dusty may no longer in charge of it. So you can build the case for yes and you can build the case for no with it. So we'll wait and see on all of that, but the story is far from complete. Like, we'll have probably more updates throughout the week on general stuff. I expect expect an announcement for Boynton to be the interim coach Tuesday morning from Michigan. And then it's a matter of how long does it take to know for sure if everyone is staying and if not, are we getting X players in the portal tomorrow? Are we? Coast is clear for day one, day two, day three, but look out for day four. Day five. I don't know. We wait and see. We wait and see on all that. Josh, before we get out of here, I miss anything. Any. Any lingering thoughts here before we close up shop on our second show of the day?
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No, I think we've. I think we've mostly covered it. I wasn't supposed to talk to either of you today and I talked to you at separate times, but is as is the nature of the beast. So.
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Uh.
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But no, I think we've got it. I think we've got it covered.
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I know I wanted to hop on with GP earlier. It just. Hq. I. I was not. I understand. You were sweaty. I was sweaty. I had to shower. It just wasn't gonna happen. I was up against GP Show. That's a rarity. Like it's rare where a major piece of news breaks and essentially all three of us are not in a position to like hop on the mics. Or at least two of the three of us aren't in a position to hop on and get this going within 15 minutes of it happening. But that was very much the case today. What a noisy headline in advance of the draft. Speaking of the draft, CBS Sports HQ, 7pm Eastern until we wrap up, shop there on Tuesday night. Get ready for just a very, very fun night. I know a lot of people will take in the draft live on espn. As you should please watch us on the second screen however you do, if you enjoy me and gp. Adam Finkelstein does a wonderful job with so much of the scouting stuff. He's known so many of these players since they were 13, 14, 15 years old and getting into the system and seeing them grow and has the has the most reliable scouting as you're going to find quite literally anywhere for anyone that's talking on cam about this. So please do be sure to check us out as we as we tour through the night. I'll even give you a couple couple pre draft nuggets here if I could. Expectation as of right now is Ace 1, Peterson 2, Boozer 3. But I still that's probably the way we go, but I've talked to a few NBA gms and they have there's a couple that are like, I think it's boozer at 2. So we see on that one tossed out to me and just they're like, all right, follow me here. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Peterson goes one to Washington. Not outrageous, right? But what if, what if the Boozer situation at 2 that we're accounting for with AJ going 1 instead surfaces because Utah is just going to take Boozer and then AJ falls to three And I was like, that's not happening. He's like, it's probably not, but can you imagine if AJ DeBontsa actually fell to 3? I was like, that's insane. That would be like the biggest story of the night if Giannis doesn't get traded at some point on Tuesday. But I got a good chuckle out of that. Clippers at 5 have been heavily talked about as though maybe they're trying to move the pick. I don't think that happens. I think they're picking at five. I mocked Mikel Brown Jr. There and Waglers, the more popular pick. A lot of people think Acuff's going to Brooklyn, but he won't fall further than the Kings. Of course there's curiosities if like Dallas is now going to take someone that's played at Michigan. One of the bigs? I don't think so. I think that's the most likely landing spot, I think for buries. But we wait and see on that. Buries will not fall past Golden State at 11. And if Burges is gone, I wonder if Yaks goes goes to Golden State 11 since we're on the Michigan pot here, I've been told Charlotte is the absolute floor at 14 for Mariss Johnson Jr. So Dusty May leaving Michigan should have three lottery picks in the same year they won a national championship. Makes sense. They're just coming off one of the best seasons we've seen over the past 25 years in all of men's college basketball. So should be an interesting night. Some people think that Giannis is heading to Miami and that their draft picks 10, Milwaukee's at 10, Miami's at 13. They'd be involved in that trade if that happens. We'll see if we get that tonight on draft day. Jimmy Butler got got traded like 30 minutes before the draft a number of years ago. That was the last time we had essentially like a top 20 player in the league traded on the day of the draft. A lot of people think this is happening, so we wait and see on on all that stuff. But yeah, seven Eastern CBS Sports hq, our draft show. Please tune in and then GP and I will podcast again together same show tomorrow night to recap just the whole night the things that stood out to us most and just kind of recap all the good story lines and all that good stuff. So we appreciate you for tuning into that. And draft is almost, almost here if you're wondering why it's on a Tuesday men's national team plus Thursday NBA got that out of the way and they bumped it up to Tuesday. Kind of like the Tuesday draft better than the Thursday draft. But we'll see if that changes moving forward. That is a shot show. I don't do the shouts. That is a GP thing only. So Josh, I appreciate you hopping on. Thanks for everyone for joining the the live chat for a not so quite emergency edition of the Ion College Basketball Podcast. 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