St. John’s loses key player; latest on Michigan roster/coaching situation; NBA Cup to Hinkle; remember the great Kenny Klein

Summary

Eye On College Basketball – Episode Summary (July 2, 2026)

Hosts: Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander
Main Themes: Key injury at St. John’s, Michigan coaching situation, NBA Cup’s new college venue, and remembering Kenny Klein.

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Episode Overview

Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander deliver an energetic, insightful deep-dive into a news-heavy early July. The episode opens with the tough injury blow to St. John’s (Donnie Freeman), shifts to the evolving saga in Michigan basketball after Dusty May’s departure, touches on a historic new location for the NBA Cup, and ends with heartfelt remembrances of the legendary SID Kenny Klein. The hosts’ blend of sharp analysis, inside knowledge, and irreverent banter shines throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. St. John’s Suffers Major Offseason Injury: Donnie Freeman Out for Season

• [00:14–07:52]
  • Context: Syracuse transfer Donnie Freeman, a top-25 transfer and expected starter at St. John’s, tore his Achilles and will miss the entire upcoming season.
  • Impact: Norlander emphasizes, “This blows. ... He was 16th at our site at CBS Sports, would have been an impact player significantly.” ([00:55])
  • St. John’s had done well in the transfer portal and was shaping up as a Big East contender.
  • Roster Implications: Both agree Freeman’s injury knocks St. John’s out of early top-15 contention. “It’s tough to justify St. John’s as top 15 purely in the off season.” (Norlander [04:22])
  • Replacement Options: Unlikely St. John’s can land a similar impact player this late, but potential for an international addition exists.
  • NIL Resources: “If they decide there’s a player out there available that can help them... [St. John’s] will have the money to do it.” (Parrish [07:52])
    • Norlander references Xavier’s reported $14 million roster spend (from Richard Pitino’s testimony, [11:15]), highlighting the financial arms race.

Notable Quotes

• “You never want to be the lead topic on an offseason podcast when one of your starters gets injured and is done for the year.” – Matt Norlander ([02:48])
• “If Rick Pitino and his staff identify a player ... they will have the money ... to make it happen.” – Gary Parrish ([09:15])

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2. Michigan’s Coaching Situation: Waiting Game after Dusty May’s Departure

• [13:47–32:00]
  • Background: Dusty May left Michigan for the Dallas Mavericks just after winning a national title.
  • Current State: Mike Boynton, May’s top assistant, is interim coach. There’s been a remarkable effort to keep the championship roster intact.
  • Why the Delay?
    • Boynton and Michigan (Athletic Director Ward Manuel) are negotiating deal terms.
    • Michigan’s Board of Trustees is “trying to protect themselves” after the football program’s turmoil and previous in-house promotions gone wrong. ([19:45–20:22])
    • “It’s entirely shitty and should not be part of the calculation here, but quite clearly it has factored into the negotiating process over the past week.” – Norlander ([20:22])
  • Rostering Up: “If he’s not the coach, I don’t think that roster stays together. ... They have rallied, and if they can’t get something done here soon, … it becomes something of a vulnerability.” (Norlander [28:30])
  • Contract Talk: Parrish advocates a simple short-term deal so recruiting and stability aren’t undermined: “What’s most important for Michigan right now is to keep this roster in place and have Mike [Boynton] be able to say, ‘This is my program.’” ([29:16])
  • Ranking Drop: Both agree Michigan deserves a drop in preseason rankings post-Dusty May, despite roster retention.

Notable Quotes

• “It is crazy. You cannot reasonably expect to become a first-time D1 head coach, get fired, and then two years later be the head coach of the reigning national champions. It’s outrageous.” – Gary Parrish ([23:43])
• “Mike Boynton is literally one of the most respected coaches in the entire industry and is eager for the opportunity.” – Matt Norlander ([21:02])
• “The only cost is money. The alternative ... is you start losing the roster—now you just messed up something that could have been good. For what? For money?” – Gary Parrish ([29:13])

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3. NBA Cup Moves to Hinkle Fieldhouse: College Hoops Shrine for the In-Season Tournament

• [32:00–36:44]
  • News: NBA’s in-season cup championship game will leave Las Vegas for Hinkle Fieldhouse, a storied college venue (Butler), for the first time.
  • Reactions: Both hosts love the move—for atmosphere, history, and a basketball-rich location.
    • “Starting with Hinkle is just the right move—all the history.” – Norlander ([33:33])
    • Parrish: “When you get off the plane in Indianapolis ... you take it to a place where they pride themselves on ‘we care about this more than anybody else cares about this.’ … It’s gonna be basketball’s [Field of Dreams].” ([37:51])
  • Court Design Plea (Humorous): “Don’t desecrate that church place, NBA ... play it clean, please.” – Norlander ([35:35])

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4. Remembering Kenny Klein: A Pillar of College Sports

• [46:34–59:19]
  • Who: Kenny Klein, legendary sports information director (SID) at Louisville, died at 66 after a choking incident.
  • Legacy:
    • The hosts share personal and industry-wide memories, praising Klein’s integrity, humility, and professionalism, especially navigating Louisville’s turbulent basketball eras.
    • “Not only did I never have a bad interaction with Kenny—I never even anticipated a bad interaction with Kenny ... and we weren’t just talking about, on some level, his boss and his boss’s program, but like one of his best friends, like his brother.” – Parrish ([49:12], [51:05])
    • “He just was the best at his job and just the best to be around.” – Parrish ([47:34])
    • Norlander: “The person, at least on the basketball side, quite literally would be voted as the number one overall seed [of SIDs], is no longer with us.” ([57:40])
  • Call to Honor: Both hope for his name to hang in Louisville’s rafters.
  • Useful Links: Praises local reporting by C.L. Brown and Eric Crawford for further reflections.

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Other Notable/Memorable Moments

• Xavier NIL Trivia ([09:27–11:15]): Richard Pitino, under oath, revealed Xavier’s men’s basketball spend is $14 million—a window into the escalating NIL landscape.
• NBA Summer League Free Throw Experiment ([43:15–44:21]): Expect only one FT per trip worth the appropriate points—hosts agree it’s a harmless, “wallpaper the pantry” change for exhibition, not real games.
• Light Banter & Media Pickup at Hinkle ([39:09–41:55]): Humorous retelling of media games at Hinkle, bridging media and player/fan experiences.
• Random Off-Topic Bits: Laughs about Taylor Swift’s rumored wedding at MSG and riffs on the opening of the Strait of Hormuz and American oil misconceptions. ([60:03–62:41])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• St. John’s Donnie Freeman injury & roster impact: 00:14–12:32
• Michigan coaching situation (post-Dusty May): 13:47–32:00
• NBA Cup moves to Hinkle Fieldhouse: 32:00–36:44
• Kenny Klein tribute: 46:34–59:19

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Notable Quotes with Attribution

• “This blows. ... He was 16th at our site at CBS Sports, would have been an impact player significantly.” (Norlander, [00:55])
• “You never want to be the lead topic on an offseason podcast when one of your starters gets injured and is done for the year.” (Norlander, [02:48])
• “If Rick Pitino and his staff identify a player ... they will have the money ... to make it happen.” (Parrish, [09:15])
• “Mike Boynton is literally one of the most respected coaches in the entire industry and is eager for the opportunity.” (Norlander, [21:02])
• “The only cost is money. The alternative ... is you start losing the roster—now you just messed up something that could have been good. For what? For money?” (Parrish, [29:13])
• “Starting with Hinkle is just the right move—all the history.” (Norlander, [33:33])
• “He just was the best at his job and just the best to be around.” (Parrish, [47:34])
• “The person ... who would be voted as the number one overall seed [of SIDs], is no longer with us.” (Norlander, [57:40])

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Tone and Style

The hosts balance deep reporting, relaxed candor, and humor even as they navigate somber topics. Analyses are authoritative but relatable, laced with the insight only true insiders can bring.

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Final Thoughts

Whether updating fans on crucial roster shifts, explaining the intricacies of university politics in coaching hires, or showcasing the special people who make college hoops tick, this episode is essential for anyone who wants to stay truly plugged in to the sport’s off-court realities—and to those who shape them.

Listeners walk away with:

• Clear context and ramifications of St. John’s and Michigan’s big off-season stories.
• A sense of how NIL and transfer realities are radically reshaping college basketball.
• A look at how the NBA is borrowing the magic of college venues.
• A heartfelt, industry-wide tribute to an unsung hero, Kenny Klein.

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For more information on the news and personalities discussed, check out CBS Sports’ college basketball coverage, and see published tributes to Kenny Klein by C.L. Brown and Eric Crawford for a deeper appreciation of his impact.

Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Foreign. Hey there.

[Gary Parrish]

I am Gary Parish. Welcome back CBS Sports. I own college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camel fighting, Dodo birds, Leaky Black Matt Norlander is here with me. If you're watching on YouTube honor Brandon Davies, smash that like button. If you haven't yet subscribed to the Iowan College Basketball podcast, please do that wherever you listen to podcasts like Apple and Spotify. Let's get into it and let's start with some offseason injury news. Yuck. Syracuse transfer Donnie Freeman, he has suffered a torn Achilles. He was expected to start for St. John's next season. Now he's out for the year. Not ideal. Norlander, good to see you. Your thoughts on this not so great development.

[Matt Norlander]

That's not a good development. You know, Freeman not among the most notable transfers, but I think objectively speaking across the board, a top 25 transfer, he was 16th at our side at CBS Sports would have been an impact player significantly. I this blows. He's not the only one. There's a, there's another player. And now of course I'm blanking in real time. Gp you get these offseason workouts and the last thing you want to see is an update from a school with a three sentence statement from a coach about a player being out for the year. It just, it's brutal. Rick Patinos in particular has had a really rough go of it. We'll get to more of that at the end of the show. St. John's didn't have a top 10 portal class, but it had done plenty well for itself and obviously, you know, consider to be, you know, right there again with Yukon going into next season. The biggies now you lose him. There's actually some weird tentacles attached to this in general. Like I don't know if St. John's is or will be able to get anyone else to replace him on that level. We'll get to the Michigan stuff in just a little bit here but you know, they keep having one player after another publicly recommit to the program for next season, which is great, but that portal will technically open for them and I, I know St. John's will have to at least do its diligence, be it there or elsewhere by getting another player on the roster. So losing Freeman is a stinger. Just a quick refresher. I played at Syracuse six nine, 205, 210 pound forward, 16 and a half points, more than seven rebounds last season. Really did make a nice year one to year two jump. And just to me he would have Been at least I would have expected him to be even like, I don't know, maybe a notch above what Bryce Hopkins was a season ago, I think. And credit to Bryce Hopkins, by the way. Dude got drafted, good on him. But they lose him here. So this does ding St. John's it does ding the outlook. GP I don't believe you've updated the top 25 and 1. I assume that you will because this is, this is, I mean this is a, this is a significant piece. I, you know, we never like talking about injuries, period. You never want to be the lead topic on an off season podcast when one of your starters gets injured and is done for the year. But that is the case in, in Queens.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, it sinks. You know, Whether you're a St. John's fan or part of that staff, you not only, you know, spend time as far as the staff, like working to get this deal done, recruiting, making sure the money's right, all of that stuff. But then you, you start imagining what it's going to look like and playing around with combinations and then boom, it's just like off season. Now that's over and one of the biggest additions to a program that I had, 11th in the top 25 and one is now not going to be in uniform all season. I haven't updated yet. I will this afternoon. I was actually going to ask you, yeah, I had him 11. Where do you think you slot him now?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, let me do this in real time for you, buddy, here. I'm going to bring this up and I'm going to talk through it. You had him 11. If you would have had me, guess I would have said you would had the Johnny somewhere like 1314. So we were in the, the same general vicinity there. I think without Freeman and without a replacement at this point, from a roster standpoint, it's tough to justify St. John's as top 15 purely in the off season. Not to say that, you know, Rick Pino is an amazing coach. He can get there. I, I know that he can do that, but I, I just, I don't know if I could go top 15 right now. GP, let's see who you've got here. Your most recent update was June 16th. It actually wasn't that long ago when you got Ohio State, got L.J. smith. So he's got Arkansas 12, Iowa State 13, Houston 14, Louisville 15. I would definitely have St. John's be you have Tennessee 16. I would have them below Tennessee. You have Kentucky 17. The interesting thing about that is that Kentucky 13 thought it was Getting Freeman and it did not. And then he went to St. John's I would have.

[Gary Parrish]

Man.

[Matt Norlander]

Gp, It's. It's just wild to think about how it is now versus, like 10 years ago. Just the way that these outlooks on these teams changed by the middle of the off season versus what they were, you know, halfway through April. Kentucky has just taken one hell of a journey. At to this point, I think I would have Kentucky ahead of St. John's I think you're higher on USC than I am. You have USC 18. I will not have USC in my top 20 going into the season. I know that. Then you've got Bama 19, Purdue 20. I'd say this is just my. Do whatever the hell you want. Yeah. All right. Of course, I would say best case, 17. And I don't think you can drop them worse in the off season than like, you've got Indiana 22. They've got Marcus Burton coming in, Bryce Lindsay, Aiden Cherelle, Darren Harris, who didn't play much at Duke. I would have still same. So, yeah, 18 to 22.

[Gary Parrish]

That's.

[Matt Norlander]

That's where I think that. That's where I think you will have them land.

[Gary Parrish]

I had it 15 to 17 in that range, definitely behind Arkansas, Iowa State, Houston, Louisville, and then I started looking at it. But I will either have them 15 just ahead of Tennessee or 16 just ahead of Kentucky or 17 just ahead of USC, and I think that's probably it. 17 behind Tennessee, Kentucky, but ahead of USC. I think that's probably the sweet spot.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, I love that Tennessee roster. Almost enough. All see where I land on him in the fall. That's another show for another time. But I think that Tennessee roster has a chance to be like borderline top 10. Good. So, yeah, with them losing, we. We wait to see if they can. If they can get another player. I want to say I'm kind of going off the cuff here. I. I want to say there might be. Don't aggregate this St. John's people. They might be looking into another international player. There might be another international player that might be. There's a couple of these players right now at a few different programs where I think the players in some cases, maybe they've publicly made committed in some cases is private, but they're going through the process and they're kind of hitting some. Some resistance there. Like there's another program. I was talking to its coach last month. This is a program in your preseason top 25 rankings. I just won't say the school because it was technically off record, but this player is an international player that has committed to the school. And the coach told me he's like for sure a starter on our team if he gets clear, but he hasn't been cleared yet. So I think there's just a little bit here and a little bit there with some of these schools. And I want to say maybe the Johnny's are one of them. Regardless, you know, they got to see if they can get someone else into the mix there because losing Freeman, it wasn't expected to be the best player. But that is a ding all the same.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, sometimes you get to this part of the calendar and you'll hear things like, well, that school's out of money or that staff's out of money, or they don't have money for that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just not going to be a thing at St. John's like, they're never out of money. They like. So if they, if they need, like if they decide there's a player out there available that can help them, it doesn't matter whether it's July 2, August 2, September 2, it doesn't matter how much they've spent. It doesn't matter that they invested, I'm assuming, millions in Donnie Freeman and now not going to get to have him, at least not next season. They still got a billionaire they can go to. So if they want to enhance the roster and there's actually a way to do it, like that person exists, they'll be involved, if they want to be involved because they'll have the money to do it.

[Matt Norlander]

That's generally, generally speaking, that is my same understanding. There was some point, like last season, maybe the season before, we had, we said something about St. John's on the show and then I got a call and it was just kind of like, hey, just so you know, like, we're not the richest school. We don't have the abs. The absolute most money, like there is a limit, you know, So I, I agree with you. And especially when.

[Gary Parrish]

How about this?

[Matt Norlander]

Do you believe this is required?

[Gary Parrish]

Do you believe this to be true?

[Matt Norlander]

Mike Rapoli is not. They're not. He's not going to say no, especially after losing a player.

[Gary Parrish]

That's what I mean. I mean, if Rick Patino and his staff identify a player who can help, they will have the money, no matter. Almost regardless of what it would cost, they'll have the money available to, to try to make it happen. That's what I believe to be true.

[Matt Norlander]

Well, you know, it's interesting on that. No, I'll just shoehorn this in here real quick. There's this, this case that's going on for the five and five has been approved. It's not fully ratified yet and obviously that's going to be fought five years to play five seasons of college. But the, the, the change because typically it was four to play five in exchange for that. If you get injured then you lose the year, you don't get it back. There are no medical red shirts. The only exceptions are if you go on a Mormon mission pregnancy. There's a few things that there's obviously a military service. There are exceptions but that they're like hard line exceptions. And now obviously that's being fought because the, the college players that just finished this past season, they're not eligible to get their bonus fifth year. It activates this year. There is no grandfathering. So as expected, there are lawsuits. We'll see what happens with that, with those lawsuits. But the first one was filed in the state of Ohio on behalf of 15 players, none of whom you've most people on this podcast have ever heard of. But as part of this Richard Patino had to testify on this yesterday. And when he did that he was on he was he initially this is per, per local story here from cincinnati.com he resisted and then he was reminded that during this deposition this was not in the courtroom as far as I understand it, that he was under oath. And so he had to for the record, for the purposes of this, this lawsuit admitted that Xavier I'm going to trivia time the audience if they don't know this Trivia time those playing along at home. What number do you think Xavier is spending on his roster this season? Think about it. Give it another 3, 4 seconds. Come to a number. Xavier basketball, Big east program. What number you think it is? All right, here's the answer in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. 14 million.

[Gary Parrish]

Woohoo.

[Matt Norlander]

14 million at Xavier. So that just gives you a real and this is after they got to 5.5 million a year ago. Zip them up, bust them out, whatever

[Gary Parrish]

it shouts to two Hollow that is.

[Matt Norlander]

That is some zip them up money if I've ever yeah.

[Gary Parrish]

Two Holloway came along at the wrong time, buddy. He got 2.5 million. He got 2.5 million. No problem. Zip them up.

[Matt Norlander]

And by the way, good for good for Xavier. That is more that's I, I knew Xavier was above 10. I never would have thought I actually got to 14. And just to invoke that with what we're Talking about here, If Xavier has 14, you best believe St. John's can comfortably beat that number. So that's just the space that we're at right now. And I don't even know how much maybe Donnie for. I hope Donnie Freeman gets all the money. If he can, great. If not, this is also part of the process that really, you know, it's just. Just the entire state of play is incredible. I don't know if he's going to get paid all some. A little. If he stays with the program, comes back a year, probably gets all of it. But these are the contingency plans that you need to. That you need to plan around with it, without a doubt. So an unwanted headline here as we get rolling at the start of July.

[Gary Parrish]

All right, let's take a break and then we come back. Let's turn our attention to Michigan. The reigning champs has been mostly quiet in Ann Arbor a week after Dusty May left for the NBA. So what's going on? I'll ask Norlander next. First word, partners.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Gary Parrish]

Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

[Matt Norlander]

My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv. Suv. An inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast.

[Gary Parrish]

An offer you can feast on.

[Matt Norlander]

Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Gary Parrish]

Right, Norlander? As you know, day before the first night of the NBA draft, Dusty May left Michigan for the Dallas Mavericks. He's holding a press conference in Dallas right now. I just saw it come across Twitter.

[Matt Norlander]

I. Okay, if. If he is. I was told he is not in the state of Texas today, so.

[Gary Parrish]

Okay, okay, hold on.

[Matt Norlander]

Maybe he is. I was. I was told he is recruiting a certain person to be on his new Maverick staff. And he is not in the state of Texas, so we'll see. Anyway, continue. Sorry to throw you off course. That just threw me for a loop.

[Gary Parrish]

Somebody just tweeted a video of Dusty Mae talking at what level Looks like a press conference, but I guess it could be anywhere in the world. It also could have taken place at any point.

[Matt Norlander]

I believe his introductory presser was on Monday.

[Gary Parrish]

Okay, maybe then. Hey, maybe it's it. Maybe. Maybe that's it. Hey, I don't.

[Matt Norlander]

I don't.

[Gary Parrish]

It ain't my job to keep up with what Dusty May is doing every day of his life anymore, okay?

[Matt Norlander]

Not your job to inform the public. We know that. Yes.

[Gary Parrish]

It is not my job to know what Dusty May is doing every day of his life. All right? If he wanted. Hey, if Dusty May wanted me to know what he's doing every day of his life, he could have just stayed in college.

[Matt Norlander]

All right? That's correct.

[Gary Parrish]

But he picked. He picked. He decided he would rather. He'd rather have Brian Windhorse know what he's doing every day instead of me and you. So that's fine. He May. He made his choice. All right?

[Matt Norlander]

Yep.

[Gary Parrish]

He's wind Horses problem. Now

[Matt Norlander]

why would he do that? Now why would he do that? All right, what else we got here?

[Gary Parrish]

Wind Horse is so good. I love him. He's so good.

[Matt Norlander]

He's terrific.

[Gary Parrish]

He's terrific. He's awesome. Okay, Dusty May leaves for Dallas, picked Wendy over me and you. Not. Not to mention John Fanta and Mike Boynton promoted to interim.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parrish]

And then it was like. And now the players can go wherever they want to go and. And then it's mostly just been quiet. Why is it so quiet? What's going on?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, all transparency. I definitely thought we would have fired up the pod machine by Tuesday, late afternoon at the latest, to lead. Not on St. John's having a season ending injury to one of its productive starters. But on Mike Boynton being promoted to the full time head coach. That is still not the case.

[Gary Parrish]

Full transparency. Full transparency. That was actually the plan.

[Matt Norlander]

That was the plan. And then we got to. We got to Wednesday night and I was like, we're going. It wasn't just me. We all agreed. And we're going Thursday.

[Gary Parrish]

Thursday. We're talking about Manual's timeline.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay.

[Gary Parrish]

Okay. Thursday, Thursday. Dusty May can leave us if he wants to, but that does not mean we have to be a slave to Ward Manual's timeline. All right, so we decided Thursday at 1 o' clock Eastern. We are talking about something. All right, so here we go.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. Josh sometimes send us funny texts in our little text thread. These should go in the chat. He goes, Boynton's. Mike Boynton's been dominating my life. I just. It's hilarious to me. The idea that Mike Boynton, whose life has been dominated by the decisions of a bunch of players and their parents and their age, he's just been at the forefront right here, right at the top of Josh's mind for like four days in a row. It is, it is true though sometimes we quite literally have to plan our jobs around the decisions of other people that are time zones away or hundreds of miles away. The Ward Manual and Mike Boynton have had multiple meetings. They have not yet obviously come to terms. There are negotiations at play. Keep in mind, Mike Boyton is still being paid by Oklahoma State for two more years. It's millions of dollars. And so I'm not going to say he is operating from a position of, of strength because obviously he's not. But at the same time he's got money coming to him regardless and they need to determine how many. Like in my opinion, I think the side should come together. Two year guarantee deal for, you know, two, two and a half million per year, something like that, and then see where we're at at the end of the season and, and go from there. I've been told there are, there's no coaching search happening. There's not anyone, you know, that might be waiting in the wings. It's just, it's Boynton and will it be the interim, will it not? You had all these players at first it was Elliot Cado, then it was Trey McKinney, then it was Mustafa Cham. JP Estrella earlier today on Thursday publicly committed to the program. I was told he intended to actually make that announcement after Boynton's deal got done. And, and similar to this podcast, JP Estrella said, you know what, I'm not waiting around anymore. I'm just going to get it done and get it out there. So he did it. We wait on Brandon McCoy but sounds like Boynton has done and that staff have done a hell of a job at just rallying to keep everyone there. Everyone's on campus with the exception of Elliot Cadeau who's actually, he's playing overseas starting next week. I believe the portal has not technically opened for them. So how this, it just how this works is Dusty goes to Dallas, then there's an interim, there's a 30 day period after Dusty leaves in any coach where if there's not a full time coach in place, then the portal opens for everyone. So at the absolute latest it will be later this month in the final week of July that the portal will open. But if Slash when Boynton gets the head job, then five days after that there will be a 15 day period where the portal will then open and then that's when it really gets real, so to speak. And we wait and see if they can keep the entire roster together. So Boynton could have the job five hours from now. Still probably not to expect something today, but not impossible. Maybe tomorrow. If not, it drags on in the next week and they just. You've got two sides trying to figure out what's best for everyone. That makes the most sense. Michigan is in the position of having a coach come, revive a program, win a national championship and then immediately go to the highest level the sport. Harbaugh did it with the NFL. Dusty has now done it with the NBA. And because the Sharon Moore stuff went completely sideways, it's not fair. It's, I would argue it's extremely not right. But from what I'm hearing, just the, the board of trustees side with Michigan, they are just going to try and protect themselves as much as they can from not having another, not even like the, Mike's a total stand up guy, but having another situation where, okay, you promoted someone in house after the coach that won the whole thing left. And we don't want to have a situation where Michigan's just, you know, we look up in a year and it's like, why did we do this? So there's a lot attached to all this.

[Gary Parrish]

I get that. I just, like that's shitty.

[Matt Norlander]

Like it's extreme. Oh, it's extremely shitty. It's very unfair. They're two different human beings. Be the case. It should not be the case. But as multiple people have told me, like it's just going to be part of the calculation. It's just, it's in the air around that university not, not to say that because Sharon and Mike are two totally different human beings and, and they should be, they should be regarded as such. It is the circumstances under which Sharon got the job and now the circumstances under which Mike has it. Mike Boynton's like literally one of the most respected coaches in the entire industry and, and, and is eager for the opportunity. But they're just trying to figure out what terms work for best of them. But yes, it's entirely apologies for the, for the curse words if there's any kiddos listening out of out of school season here, but it's entirely shitty and should not be, should not be part of the calculation here. But quite clearly it has factored into the negotiating process over the past week.

[Gary Parrish]

Plus I understand why people's minds go there. Like I'm an, I'm not an idiot. Like, I understand how your mind would drift in that direction, but ultimately Michigan should be making a decision about Mike Boynton and it should have little to do with anybody else who ever worked on that campus.

[Matt Norlander]

I completely agree.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah. And I hope I, I hope it any. Like, I hope another man's sins, for lack of a better word, don't negatively impact whatever might be in front of Mike Boynton. Because that would obviously, I think, be unfair. So what you're telling me is that, you know, we'll see, but barring a surprise or some sort of breakdown in negotiations, Mike Boynton is going to be the next full time head coach of the Michigan Wolverines. And it just sort of. I think there's something in there for everybody. Man, I just started googling the other night because remember, we thought we were doing this two days ago. So I've had all this.

[Matt Norlander]

I've had some good lead up, some good.

[Gary Parrish]

I've had plenty of time to think about it. And so about roughly 40% of Americans at some point in their life get fired or get laid off. That's the estimate.

[Matt Norlander]

That's lower than I would have expected.

[Gary Parrish]

It was lower than I thought too, but that was the number.

[Matt Norlander]

That feels inaccurate. In fact, you said you googled it. I don't even know if that's trustworthy anymore, but go ahead.

[Gary Parrish]

The Google returns that about 40% of Americans are either laid off or fired at some point in their lives. And I imagine on that day it must feel like you're lost, you're confused, you don't know what's next, you're unsure, you're scared, all sorts of emotions. Unfortunately, I have never experienced that. You know, fingers crossed. But I imagine it's terrifying. I've had friends go through it. We both had. In this industry, buddy, you're lucky if you don't go through it. And I bet you no matter what industry you work in, that day's a hard day. And people wrap their arms around you and they tell you, man, this ain't the end. But I bet it's hard not to think that it's. It might be on some level. And yet there are so many stories where you look up and man, you couldn't anticipated it. But look around. Not only are you okay, you're better off than you were.

[Matt Norlander]

Crazy. I know.

[Gary Parrish]

It is crazy. You cannot reasonably expect to become a first time Division 1 head coach, get fired, and then two years later be the head coach of the reigning national champions. It's outrageous. Happy for us, happy, like thrilled for

[Matt Norlander]

him, without a doubt. I mean he's, it's what, it's what makes this. And I'm kind of gleaning off of a couple different conversations with a couple of different sources over the past few days. But yeah, he's, he, he is, he is inheriting one of the, for sure top 15 jobs in the sport. And I think if you really wanted to try and make the case for a top 10, I think Michigan's pretty damn close overall considering the state of everything here. But you know, as, as just an aside and I'm, I'm. What I'm about to say is not this stuff has been passed along to me over the years and not anything I've been told basically since Dusty left. The University of Michigan's just general operation as an athletic department is not the most well greased operation. Which isn't to say it's an absolute disaster. Obviously it's had to go through a serious investigation tied to all the football stuff. But I have had different people over the years kind of say like actually the way school avert works versus the way school B works versus the way school C works. And this is not just unique to Michigan, it's just you'd be surprised that sometimes it's kind of like with the Lakers, if from the outside looking in people might not realize that although the Lakers have arguably the most glamorous brand in all of the NBA, it was basically until recent ownership change, it was, it was a mom and pop shop for a very, very like they had the smallest scouting department in the entire league. And you just wouldn't think that's the way that it would be. But that's just how it is because of how great the late Dr. Bus was in building up that franchise. And so every so often you get little, little glimpses into like actually here's, here's why things, you know, sometimes aren't. The one thing that I can't share with you is, you know, in Dusty, I guess year one, year two, they're just at Michigan it's football and then it's everyone else. It's very, very, very football dominated. Which obviously makes sense considering the great history there. But although it has changed since Dusty was hired there in many respects, in the day to day, in the week to week of how the men's basketball program was regarded and treated and handled, there wasn't much difference with most other non football sports there. Whereas you could go to any variety of schools that have football as the primary one and you work at, you walk the halls there, you get to know the culture there. And no, it's. Men's basketball is appropriately treated like this. That has since changed because of Dusty at Michigan. But it's a little bit more of insight as to why this is taking so long with the board of trustees, with Ward Manual, who I don't think is making solely. I think if Ward Manual was making this decision all on his own with. We have already podcasted about Mike Boynton having signed a two or three year guaranteed deal or whatever to be the coach. That hasn't happened because I don't think it's all Ward's decision. And that's, that's where we're at right now.

[Gary Parrish]

It just seems like it's an easy thing to do at Michigan because I mean, yeah, they can keep the interim tag on him if they want and that's fine. Like I'm not going to protest if they do. That's what certain schools would do under similar circumstances. But it just leads to a situation where you're. He's going to get asked about it a lot throughout the season. It's going to be a thing that just sort of hangs above. It's going to impact recruiting and not in a good way. Whereas you can just avoid all that. Like you said, give him a two or three year contract, guarantee it. He can tell recruits I'm, yes, Michigan's part of this. Oh, of course, of course. I mean, and then if it's, if it's, let's say it's a disaster. All right. Or just it doesn't work because sometimes these things don't work. Whatever. All right, what does that mean? Like, what does that mean? You just pay money to make it go away and they got them, they got all of the money.

[Matt Norlander]

They got 5 million from the Mavericks to begin with. That's. The Mavericks have to pay Michigan 5 million to get Dusty, who's making, you know, 8, 8 plus million now with his new job and, and great for him and the deal that you're. The buyout on Boynton won't be, it won't be that much money to begin with, period. And by the way, like the other part of this is, you know, boy, that staff have kept this roster together and they believe that if Slash, when Boynton gets the full time job, like, they believe they're going to keep everyone. And that in and of itself is pretty critical because, oh, by the way, like, no, we don't know what it will look like when Mike's running It versus when Dusty was running it. But I think the most critical output of Michigan with a new head coach and the roster stays the same. The most critical is dropping them from like preseason 3 to preseason 14. Like the most cynical viewpoint you could have because they're going to solve all the players there. And you know, Boynton was Dusty's number one assistant for the past two years when they won, you know, 68 combined games in the national championship or whatever. So. Well, you. If he's not, if he's not. I'll just tell you this. If he's not the coach, if they can't get this done, I don't think that roster stays together. So that's also a factor in all of this. Like they have kept, they have rallied and if they can't get something done here soon, I, I just, I, I think it becomes something of a vulnerability from that roster. So I guess that's the pressing side

[Gary Parrish]

of it and that's why it will get done at some point because it's in everybody's best interest. Like literally it's everybody's best interest just to get this done. And you can, you can make him the full time coach so that he can say he's the full time coach so that you never have to have the interim conversation again and you know, make the buyout manageable, you know, so you can get at. We do this all the time in coaching contracts. It's like so and so got an extension and it's like, yeah, but it's not really an extension.

[Matt Norlander]

And by the way, some of those extensions were agreed upon the day they agreed to the job because it basically says if you make the tournament, you automatically get a one year extension. This stuff happens all, all the time.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, it's like. And he, he got three years added to his contract. The buyout didn't change though. Okay, then it's not really an extension. It's just, it's a press release. But for all intents and purposes it, it doesn't do what they are trying to tell you it does. And you just do the same thing here. What the most important thing for Michigan right now is to keep this roster in place and have Mike be able to say, this is my program. And then if you want to take it back from him in a year or two or three, because it should have never been his program, then that's fine. It'll cost you some buyout money. You're rich. You've got buyout money. The alternative to that. So really the only cost is money. The alternative is you. You. You can't reach a deal. He's the interim. You start losing the roster that hangs out and now you just messed up something that could have been good. For what? For money? It's. You shouldn't let money stand in the way of this. That's why it won't.

[Matt Norlander]

They'll get it done. Yeah. Last thing we can move on. Actually, two things. We got a poll result here. Josh sent me. I'll mention that as well. Just from what I've been told, like it's just going through a normal negotiation process. This isn't contentious. It's just one side wanting one thing, the other side wanting the other and trying to get there and get there with terms. And it's, it's. It's really hasn't been that long. It's been 10 days since Dusty left the program. So all things considered, it's not taking too long, but we just expected it to be sooner. Go ahead, gp what do you got?

[Gary Parrish]

I just. Before we get out of here, because this has not popped into my head, but as you were talking, I think it needs to. I'm updating the top 25 and one today because of St. John's I have not updated since Dusty May left. That should factor into it the same way.

[Matt Norlander]

I think that's fair. Like it has to Dusty.

[Gary Parrish]

With all due respect to Mike, it has to factor.

[Matt Norlander]

It has to. Yeah. And yeah, it has to. Where you want to drop them? I don't know. But. But they should drop because the guy who ran the program and previously went to a final four with Florida freaking Atlantic is no longer there. That's definitely a part of it. Josh did put up a poll. How many years will Boynton be the Coach at Michigan? One year is the most popular. That's no surprise. 38. Two years? 29. Three. 24. And then four years are longer. 12. That's actually not. That's not such a bad spread overall. So we'll see. We're talking about it now because this could happen tomorrow and if it does, we're not firing up the pod machine. If and when he, he gets hired and we next need to update. We'll, we'll touch on the particulars there, but just wanted to give you the latest on that end. And the only like other like seriously big time player that they're waiting for a public commitment from is, is Brandon McCoy, the five star incoming freshman. Who? McCoy, Cadot, McKinney. To me that's a, that's one of the five best backcourts in the country next season. So he made announce between now and our next podcast and. And hopefully you know, before long we. Michigan's got a full time coach and. And they can turn the page there.

[Gary Parrish]

All right, let's move on. The NBA cup championship game no longer going to be held in Las Vegas. They're moving it to a college campus in Indianapolis at Butler. They're going to play it inside Hinkle. Cool deal for the Big east school. Norlander, are you on board with this or are you offended that the NBA is going to a historic college venue?

[Matt Norlander]

I'll tell you what I think about it after the break.

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, wow. Okay, let's go.

[Matt Norlander]

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[Gary Parrish]

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[Matt Norlander]

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[Gary Parrish]

Plenty of fun to keep us entertained.

[Matt Norlander]

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[Gary Parrish]

Sure do Love Land, man.

[Matt Norlander]

Good to. Good to hear. It started the Day of the Jackal a couple nights ago. It's on. It's on Peacock. Solid so far. So far. We'll see.

[Gary Parrish]

So somebody told me a new one I gotta. I gotta watch. It's on Apple tv. Do you know what it's called?

[Matt Norlander]

No, but the one I'm doing two shows right now. We don't have to go. I just started For All Mankind. It's like space race stuff.

[Gary Parrish]

I watched like the first two episodes of that and then I just got. I think I got so far.

[Matt Norlander]

Sorry. So far. Anyway, think of that show. Feel free to invoke it.

[Gary Parrish]

Widows Bay.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh yeah, no, that's on the list. That's like. I'm like 10 shows to get to that apparently. Very, very good. I will probably watch that right before season two starts, so. Heard very good things though. Okay, so NBA cup going to Hinkle, not Cameron Indoor, which was kind of considered maybe a little bit of a favorite. The NBA announced last year that that it was going to seek to put its championship for the cup into a college venue. And it has done it. And this is awesome. It came out I believe yesterday. If not it was Tuesday. What is time really in the off season. And as someone who was able to cover, I've covered regular games There and then the tournament in the bubble year of 21, the COVID bubble played a number of games at Henkel Field House. And although attendance was obviously it wasn't a full house, but there was plenty in there. It was really like. I'll always remember getting to cover the tournament at Hinkle. I wish that it was able to be done, you know, regularly there. And in part it's not because there's certain specifications when it comes to normal NCAA tournament venues and normal years, you know, for first and second round stuff that Hinkle can't quite meet from a spec standpoint. But in the NBA it is good enough. And I love to see this. And you imagine that first of all, starting with Hinkle is just the right move, all the history attached to it in the state of Indiana and. And it's just an incredible barn. As I mentioned on a recent podcast, you watch more NBA than I do by virtue of, of working for the Grizzlies and doing your daily radio show in Memphis. And I don't watch a ton of NBA typically during the college basketball season because that's just. There's so much college basketball to watch and write about and talk about. So I might get a little bit here and there. Just like a dashing. It will be really cool to see whatever teams are playing as long as they don't make the court. Stupid. Don't desecrate. Don't desecrate that church place. NBA. I'm just thinking of this now. Do not put some stupid ass court with six different colors and a gigantic NBA cup quasi trophy graphic on the hardwood.

[Gary Parrish]

No.

[Matt Norlander]

Let's play it clean, please.

[Gary Parrish]

It will be an awesome zero chance. It's gonna be a stupid escort.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh God,

[Gary Parrish]

it's gonna be.

[Matt Norlander]

There's so much time for them not to mess this up. It's July. This thing doesn't get played till December. You don't have to mess it up. I love that they're doing this though. They played in Vegas the past couple years and I get why they did that. That's fine. But if they're gonna make take this initiative, then maybe it'll be Fog Allen year two or Cameron in year three or who knows, wherever it might, it may move to. There's, you know, there's a good 8, 10, awesome, awesome college venue. So yeah, I just loved, I love to see it and I was actually a little surprised they actually went through with it.

[Gary Parrish]

This is a move in the right direction. I understand the idea behind developing the NBA Cup. You want to in season event you want to try to make it pop and be bigger and people care, I got that makes sense. I understand the idea behind taking it initially the semifinals and championship to Las Vegas because it's a NBA market we're probably going to next, you know, they're going to have a franchise there, and it's Las Vegas. They got an amazing arena and everybody loves to go to Vegas. Yeah. And all of that's true. I totally get how you end up making that decision. Where they had a blind spot is, yes, everybody does like to go to Vegas, but when they're in Vegas, you know what they like to do a whole bunch of stuff besides watch basketball games and.

[Matt Norlander]

And regular season basketball games.

[Gary Parrish]

Right. So, you know, I enjoy the NBA, but if I. If it was like a Thursday in Las Vegas and you told me I could do 10 different things, one of them being go to the basketball game, I. It probably ranked 10th on my list of things I want to do today in Las Vegas. And so yeah, people love to go to Las Vegas, but do they love to, while in Las Vegas, walk into a basketball arena and watch two teams that or four teams that they probably don't care about? We got the answer to that. It's no. The answer is no. They didn't want to. So you try to find a place where it'll actually look the way it wants to. You want it to look and feel the way you want it to feel. When you get off the plane in Indianapolis, there's like, at least for the Final Four, there's like that little slogan they have like you, you know, basketball is basketball. Everywhere else.

[Matt Norlander]

49 other states, it's just basketball.

[Gary Parrish]

There you go. And so like, you take it to a place where they pride themselves on, we care about this more than anybody else cares about this. And then you put it in a place that's smaller. It's about half the size of a typical NBA arena. So you don't have to sell as many tickets. You don't have to get as many people to show up. And you've got the off chance that it could be the Pacers. I mean, you know, probably won't, but could be. And either way, that state, that community will take real pride in just showing up and showing the world how much we love basketball. And also the players, you know what they do? I imagine when they walk in, you know, the arena out in. Out in Vegas, T Mobile, they walk in and they. It looks just like every other arena. They walk into it. They walk in a hinkle I bet you we're going to see videos of this. There's going to be NBA star. You fill in the blank. He gonna have his phone out inside Hinkle. Like, man, this is cool. Like, oh, man. And somebody's gonna be like, yeah, we played here when I was a junior. And like, it's gonna be an experience for the players. It's gonna be a better television product. The same way a regular season baseball game. Like, we all kind of pay attention and go, man, that looks cool when it's in Field of Dreams because it's just different and it looks cool. This is gonna be basketball's version of that, by the way.

[Matt Norlander]

The college basketball media did it first. We had, we had pickup games there circa 2010.

[Gary Parrish]

Yep.

[Matt Norlander]

2015. Would have had 1 in 21 if not for the COVID Bubble Tournament. Not allowing that to happen. And then our own Josh, that's his home.

[Gary Parrish]

That's his home building.

[Matt Norlander]

That's his alma mater. We got some good running. Josh actually had himself a nice game. No, no injuries, which was happy to report. Josh might even have a. Might even have the, the post run photo here that we can see. I just like the fact that the NBA saw what was possible after a bunch of hacks, just sweated it out relatively early on a Final Four Saturday. That's usually when the media pickup game is done and they were able to make it happen. That was. That's really cool, really inspiring. But we did it. We did it first, so. And John and Josh is a better. Although I've not yet swung the sticks with Josh, given, you know, the evidence that you provided on the show. He's a better golfer than he is a Hooper, but he was a good Hooper. He had him. He actually, he showed himself very well on that day.

[Gary Parrish]

Doctor's kid almost always going to be a better golfer than a Hooper.

[Matt Norlander]

That's. That's typically how.

[Gary Parrish]

I mean, just blindly. You just asked me. I'd be like, hey, so what you. What your dad do for a living? He's a doctor. You. You get, you get your bag out.

[Matt Norlander]

How many players in the NBA right now were the son of a doctor? I. I have no idea. Over under three and a half.

[Gary Parrish]

I don't even know. Can you name, can you name a son of a doctor?

[Matt Norlander]

No, but I don't know. I don't know the professions of most of the parents of these NBA players.

[Gary Parrish]

Just.

[Matt Norlander]

It's just a good question. You know, sometimes we venture into these areas that we don't even expect. Dr. Timurant if you say so. Here's the. Here we go.

[Gary Parrish]

What if, what if, what if Team Morant was the only doctor who has a son in the NBA. Wouldn't that be a twist? Wouldn't that be a test?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, here's the. The post run pickup Final Four. We got, we got a whole, we got a whole crew there. My guy Stephen Hartzell showing up.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, y' all definitely look like some gamer. By the way, if you asked me what is that a picture of, I would say looks like sports writers.

[Matt Norlander]

That's a bunch of sports writers. Oglesby, who has got unlimited range and just a tio is great. Love, Love.

[Gary Parrish]

I never.

[Matt Norlander]

This dude loves showing up at the final four media pickup game so he can drop like 37 across three different runs. He just absolutely loves it.

[Gary Parrish]

I always, I always imagine what it would be like to be like not awesome enough to play in the NBA, but just awesome enough to destroy everybody else all the time. Would that be fun?

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, man.

[Gary Parrish]

If you told me, if you said, hey look GP what's that a picture of? I'd say, man, that looks like sports. Sports riders to me. Only thing missing is like a Springsteen cd.

[Matt Norlander]

You see the great Kyle Boone in the middle there. Some of our chat. One of our Strong jaw. Yeah. Strong job.

[Gary Parrish]

As you say. That looks like some sports riders are some golfers. That looks like a bunch of golfers decided to play basketball.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah. A lot of CBS in this photo cam. Salerno, Isaac Trotter, yours truly, Josh. Kb Love to see Evan Miyakawa at the end. You see how Mia Cow is dressed like shy or he didn't play. Look at his kid up there. You see that?

[Gary Parrish]

What?

[Matt Norlander]

He brought the, he brought the Duke long sleeve quarter zip with the whistle and glasses and everything. It was, it was incredible. Okay, a couple more things that we can wrap. This doesn't need to be a segment actually. Hold on. I saw this in the middle of the show. Let me read this out loud because apparently everyone hates it, but I haven't looked at, at the details. So the NBA posted this one free throw rule tested during the upcoming summer leagues. When free throws are awarded, one free throw worth one, two or three points will be attempted. Standard free throw rules will apply in the final two minutes in fourth quarter in overtime. G League has used this since 201920 to improve game flow. So with this rule, any foul that would typically result in one, two or three free throws under standard NBA rules will just be a single foul shot attempt in the summer league, not the. In regular. That attempt will be worth the same total number of points of. Okay, so if you're fouled on a three point attempt, you get one free

[Gary Parrish]

throw for three points.

[Matt Norlander]

And if you make it, it's three. And if you miss it, that's the only shot you get.

[Gary Parrish]

This sounds good. Like doing stuff like this.

[Matt Norlander]

They're doing this to cut down 2 minutes and 59 seconds worth of total free throw time. That's. I. This is kind of wild, man.

[Gary Parrish]

This is like. This is like one day I walked in the house and my wife was wallpaper in the pantry.

[Matt Norlander]

Sure.

[Gary Parrish]

And I just sort of looked around the house and I was like, yeah, I don't mind if you wall, but like, if we have time to wallpaper, there's so many other things we could be working on than wallpaper in the pantry. And that's what this feels like to me. This feels like your wallpaper in the pantry when we can't still figure out how to put the right hats on people's head. And every minute you spent thinking about this thing is a minute you should have spent thinking about something that actually matters. I don't now.

[Matt Norlander]

Thankfully, it's only for the summer league because this. This rule has zero business ever being implemented in the games that matter. Imagine you shoot a three pointer, you're fouled, you get to take one shot for three points from the foul line.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah. You know, you know who thought of this rule?

[Matt Norlander]

Get out of my face.

[Gary Parrish]

You know who came up with this? Darius Washington. Darius Washington was like, I got an idea. What if. What if. All you got to do is make the first one.

[Matt Norlander]

That's a wild. That's a while.

[Gary Parrish]

His whole life would be different if this rule was in place. 2005, Conference USA tournament at the NBA Cup.

[Matt Norlander]

They just got on the screen. See if they can use that at the NBA Cup. And I think, well, hopefully not. James Naji. You remember him?

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

Played a Baylor.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah.

[Matt Norlander]

Previous. Previous draft pick. He's gonna. He's gonna play for George Mason next season. Same color scheme, different uniform, different league stuff. Just.

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, man, that's perfect for an ATM tip off show.

[Matt Norlander]

It really is.

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, buddy, that's a B block.

[Matt Norlander]

You got a whole. You got a. You can know. You got multiple segments taken care of there, buddy.

[Gary Parrish]

I didn't. I didn't know if we was gonna make it after we lost Obi Toppin that one time, but. Okay, we're in business. We're in business again.

[Matt Norlander]

Okay, so we. We won't count this show because we just mentioned him over, under, over, under three and a half shows next season where we talk about James Najee, even in passing, even if it's just one mention. Three and a half shows next season.

[Gary Parrish]

I will talk about him on CBS Sports Network 50 times.

[Matt Norlander]

Yes, you will. But what about on this show?

[Gary Parrish]

Once?

[Matt Norlander]

Maybe. Maybe. Absolutely. Destroy. Okay. What if he's like the A10 player of the year?

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, man, I hope so.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, man, that would be.

[Gary Parrish]

There is nothing more valuable to my career.

[Matt Norlander]

I know.

[Gary Parrish]

Than a prominent ATM player. Why I need them bad. You don't understand. You don't understand what that C block looks like sometimes.

[Matt Norlander]

I know. Oh, I'm aware. I'm very, very aware. All right. That's a nausea update. I think that is from a news perspective. I think that's the majority of. Of what you need to be caught up on. We do. Have we got to end it on. On a. On a somber note, if you will. In fact, I, I hate that it's taken us this long to get the show up to. To talk about this man, but GP One of the, one of the greats in college athletics, unfortunately is no longer with us. If you want to, if you want to set it up, we can, we can share some memories of the tremendous Kenny Klein.

[Gary Parrish]

Kenny Klein, the longtime sports information director at Louisville, passed away last week at the age of 66. He reportedly had a choking incident at a local restaurant and never regained consciousness. His service was held earlier this week. Rick Pitino spoke at was really sweet Norlander. Like we've both known Kenny for a long time. My dealings with him literally go back to college.

[Matt Norlander]

I love that.

[Gary Parrish]

I'm the sports editor of the Daily Helmsman, the University of Memphis campus newspaper. And, you know, Memphis and Louisville were in the same league. And I've covered a Memphis Louisville game. Kenny Klein would like. I've known the man since. Since I was in college and then my career, you know, put us in the same room a lot, the same restaurant. Restaurant, sometimes the same bar. Quite a few times.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah.

[Gary Parrish]

And just the best. Like the best at his job and just the best to be around. And I started thinking through it all. Sports information directors are not created the same.

[Matt Norlander]

They are not.

[Gary Parrish]

There are some. Whereas I can just make a totally reasonable point in passing and they want to talk to you about it for 45 minutes on the phone. Very offended. There's that person and then there's Kenny Klein. Think about all the stuff he had to deal with.

[Matt Norlander]

That's the thing.

[Gary Parrish]

The end of Denny Crumb, dude, the Patino scandals.

[Matt Norlander]

Working with Rick Patino, which is just Rick Patino, like, Rick Patino can. There's just a lot that comes with it. It just. You could not have had a person that was better equipped for that. And he was there long before Patino got to Louisville and everything connected to that. And not once. Keep going, gp. But not once, not once, ever, ever in any negative headline associated with Louisville men's basketball, not once was there a bad encounter, an inappropriate comment, an unwanted email, anything from Kenny Klein. He always, always understood the role of the media and what his role was as the conduit to. From media to coach to player to institution. Keep going. But as you mentioned, that it just kind of springs to mind where there were a lot of other people that would have not been well equipped to have that job during what was quite literally GP over the course of six, seven, eight years of just seemingly unending turmoil at Louisville.

[Gary Parrish]

And I just. You know, I was thinking through this, and I was like, not only did I never have a bad interaction with Kenny, I never even anticipated a bad interaction with Kenny, which is not naturally how my mind works. I sit around, write things, say things, and then I'm always like, all right, when I bump into so and so, how's that going to go? And then I imagine how it's going to go. And to be clear, it almost never even happens. Okay. But I don't ever even remember going through that process with Kenny, like, there. I just. And we weren't just talking about, on some level, his boss and his boss's program, but, like, one of his best friends, like his brother. And it just. I'm not gonna say we never took it to a place it shouldn't have gone while discussing Rick or whatever. In fact, I remember having a conversation. Now we're just talking. I remember having a conversation at lunch with Richard Pitino one time, long time ago. And it was after, you know, Rick's most famous personal scandal, I guess. And I just sort of had this moment of clarity where I was like, all those little jokes that we got off and every, like, on one hand, like, that's sort of the job, you know, like, I am who I am. The reason I have a career is because I, you know, I can make a joke here or there, whatever, and it's a basketball coach, and it's easy material. And so everybody had their jokes. And I'm sure I tweeted something. And it just sort of had this moment where I was like, I was also talking about if Richard would allow me, because we're similarly aged, to call him a friend. Like, that's my friend's dad. I'm just making jokes about my friend's dad. How would that make me feel if somebody was making jokes about my dad? And I just had this moment, and I. I think I verbalized this to Richard. I was like, it never occurred to me how I can text you and be like, hey, what's up? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then. And then. And then go tweet a joke about your dad.

[Matt Norlander]

It did.

[Gary Parrish]

Like, and it doesn't mean that you don't do the job, but it just sort of. And here's my point. I don't ever remember feeling any of that from Kenny. None of it. It was just the same smile, the same thing every time. And then I think most people know he went on to work with Rick at St. John's and he's just the gold standard, sort of, you know, this. The whole thing, sort of. There was. We. We knew it was a bad situation, and then you're hoping for good news, but. So you had plenty of time to, like, you know, thoughts and prayers for Kenny Klein. Keep praying for Kenny Klein. Rest in peace, Kenny Klein. There was times where there was people. You had time to get off multiple thoughts and tweets, and most people did. And by the end of it, I was just like, hey, man, you people are reading. You've read enough about who Kenny Klein was. Just all I can add to it is just like, just let me stamp it and tell you it's true. This is not. Sometimes people die, and we get all crazy and start talking about them in ways that just aren't true. Like, I remember going to a funeral one time, and they were just standing there talking about the guy, and it was like, and he was a great father, and he was the best brother, and I'm a dust. Like, no, he was none of those things. He was not a good father. He was awful, and he was not a good. Like, you just like, we're here because we got to be here, but, like, we don't have to.

[Matt Norlander]

How'd that go over when you got up to the lectern?

[Gary Parrish]

I didn't speak at this funeral. I just sat there quietly. But I was like, I see why

[Matt Norlander]

this guy actually sucks.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, well, like, I genuinely. Like, I have had this conversation with my wife. Like, do not have people up there lying about me. Just be like, you know what? He did his best. He's a pretty good guy. He did his Best.

[Matt Norlander]

If there's one thing we knew about the late Gary Paris, this guy believed him in. In premarital sex.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah. Just tell the truth. He. He was a big proponent of premarital sex. He did his best. Probably could have taken some more time at home as opposed to work, but. But, you know, he's doing what he thought he needed to do. But don't make me out to be like. And he was father of the year in 2009. No, I wasn't. All right. And so my point with this was like, you're reading all these amazing stories about Kenny Klein, and all these people are telling you how awesome he was, and I don't really have much to add to it that you hadn't read, but just trust me, if you believe anything I ever tell you, believe this. What you're reading about this guy's true. He really was just as awesome as. As everybody's telling you. And, man, like, this news just. It's just awful. It is. It's the randomness of life.

[Matt Norlander]

It's awful.

[Gary Parrish]

I mean, he. He.

[Matt Norlander]

He left us in his mid-60s, and he deserved to clear a hundred years and more and a decade or 110, 115. Yes. Just tragic. Yes.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

He.

[Matt Norlander]

Unfortunately, he choked at a dinner. Rick was actually at the dinner with him with some others. And then he went into a coma. And, you know, I was on this text thread with I don't even know how many other people. And so we'd get. We'd get updates, and there were, like, days where it was positive and days where it was wait and see and days where it was positive and wait because he was in a coma. And then he had responses. And then it just. It was a long, long week and a half of just waiting. And then I think about two days before he passed, we got the update that. It just seemed like it was at the point of no return, which was not an easy day. I talked to someone who knew him well, and basically this person expressed to me, he's like this. These were not his words, but it was basically like, if Kenny Klein is gone the way he's gone, then how do you not question, like, just any sort of sense of a higher power? Because this dude did not remotely deserve to leave this coil when he did. Just a couple quick ones from me on them. I was at the Yukon St. John's game at Hartford this year. Remember, they just. St. John's got destroyed. I was critical of Patino and how he kind of handled the stuff in the. In the post game. After. But there was Kenny Klein back there who by the way went to St. John's one to help Patino. Tino gave a great speech earlier this week. He said he cried enough to fill the Ohio River. But there's another. There's a full time Sid at St. John, Stephen Dombrowski, who also embattled some health issues. And so Kenny Klein, who retired, retired in 2022 from Louisville. Okay. And should have had his name in the rafters that afternoon. Never really fully left the business, left the industry.

[Gary Parrish]

He.

[Matt Norlander]

He was. You saw him every year at the Final four courtside running the stats. Had done it for four decades.

[Gary Parrish]

Man.

[Matt Norlander]

It's gonna be. It's gonna be just so weird not seeing him at the Final Four next year. I, I still haven't even let alone accept. I still can't even interpret that. Anyway, the point of all this is that Kenny Klein, although he retired in 2022, he never really stepped away. I didn't haven't covered a Kentucky Derby, but apparently like of course his hometown, he was there helping with the comms with everything on the derby front. But here's Kenny St. John's Patino suffers like the second worst loss of his career. He gets Patino one to come out and talk, period. It was short. It was all 60 seconds. He gets that to happen. And then there's Zubiaja four off in the corner. He's got a bloody lip. He's getting stitched up. And Patino, understandably, Patino's just. Why wouldn't he be pissed off beyond belief with the way that they. They. It was their worst game and they rallied him and rebounded and they were better after that. But Patino is like done and he can. And Patino can comport himself in that way in part because he knows Kenny Klein is there to take care of the situation if need be during times of quote, unquote crisis. And so he gets Zuby. Zubi was awesome. He talked to the media for about five minutes. In which in the moment is. Is meaningful and significant because this is yukon and it's St. John's and it's a highly anticipated regular season game with all the context around what it means for both those teams, the Big east race, the chase for a really good seed, all of it, in addition to just the rivalry aspect and Hurley and Patino, all that. And of course Kenny Klein was there and, and made everything better. There was a. Last season I was actually trying to work through potentially getting an on cam feature done with Patino that never came to be. Because Rick's schedule is just. There's a lot going on, but we really tried and it was Kenny Klein. I mean, it must have been over the course of three months we did this. He was doing everything imaginable to try and make this happen, and ultimately we couldn't get it done. And just above and beyond. And I'm just one person that he. He dealt with. To anyone listening that doesn't know who this man was and doesn't quite understand the role of sports information directors and what they do in college athletics, just know that the person who at least on the basketball side, quite literally would be voted as the number one overall seed, he's no longer with us. It's extremely tragic. I feel so much for his loved ones and his family. The only. The only thing that can come from this, that can bring some real positivity and some. Some brightness to their lives is they have been. It just. It has been a showering, an unending showering of. Of compliments from so many people about what. What he meant. So there was no way we were going to do a podcast, the first one after his passing, and that's dedicate some real time to honoring him. And actually Jody Demling, who does a great job, he just signed on with on three and has covered little for a long time.

[Gary Parrish]

He.

[Matt Norlander]

Kenny Klein created the. The. The local show he dreamt. You know, he thought it up all those years ago and Jody hosts it. And so he actually got. He asked. He asked some media people to do some audio reflections and I sent him something in and I guess he got so many that it literally required two shows to do it. But in that one that I sent, I said Kenny Klein's name should be in a banner in the rafters of the center. He. He was as vital to the University of Louisville, I think, as any person ever associated with the university. And so I do hope they find a way to do that because he was never, never not there for anyone who always needed him and, and managed to like, just be the life of a room. He was a Kentucky guy, was not afraid of his bourbon and just an awesome presence to be around. Kenny Klein, you are dearly, dearly and will forever be missed. College athletics will not be the same without you.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah. If you're looking for some more reading, I thought C.L. brown at the Courier Journal had a terrific piece intertwining it with the passing of his mother, which happened at a similar time. So obviously thoughts with Kenny's family, thoughts

[Matt Norlander]

with Eric Crawford, by the way, also Had a really good piece as well.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, just sad stuff. Just. Just that.

[Matt Norlander]

Very sad. Yep.

[Gary Parrish]

Sad stuff. All right, let's.

[Matt Norlander]

That's. That's a show, GP Yeah, we'll call it a show.

[Gary Parrish]

So I don't know really what the plan is. We're doing a play by you.

[Matt Norlander]

I. I think. I think, you know, we got a long. We got a Fourth of July weekend. The country turns 250 in two days, by the way.

[Gary Parrish]

Oh, man. Doesn't look a day. It doesn't look that old.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Does.

[Matt Norlander]

Doesn't. No, it doesn't. What was. You. You were. You were kicking around back then. You were, what, like fourth grade, when. When they had the 200, the bicentennial, as they called it. What was that like?

[Gary Parrish]

I. It. It was. I remember being fun. Fireworks and stuff. Yeah, it was. It was a good time. It was a good time.

[Matt Norlander]

Straight or. Hormuz was open, right?

[Gary Parrish]

Man, it was.

[Matt Norlander]

I think it was wide open back then.

[Gary Parrish]

I mean, the most. Maybe.

[Matt Norlander]

I don't know.

[Gary Parrish]

It was the most open.

[Matt Norlander]

It was the most open.

[Gary Parrish]

It was the most open. It was. It just. Man, you. You wouldn't believe how it just ships everywhere, just going in and out of that thing. You know, you look up 50 years later and a little tougher.

[Matt Norlander]

Is that gonna be the. Is that gonna be our 250th birthday present here? They're gonna open the street on Saturday.

[Gary Parrish]

I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I haven't heard that. But you never.

[Matt Norlander]

Someone should create a website, you know, it's like, did Duke win? You just put, is the straight of hormuz open.com?

[Gary Parrish]

i google it all the time just to check on it. I check on about once a day.

[Matt Norlander]

I mean, here we go. I got. It's a gradual reopening. Yeah, apparently it's a gradual one, so.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, I think

[Matt Norlander]

four hours ago. With Hormuz reopened, has the oil shortage turned into a glut?

[Gary Parrish]

What do you think are oil shortages?

[Matt Norlander]

The Strait of Hormuz is reopening faster than expected. After the US And Iran signed a memorial, a memorandum of understanding, and launched its indirect talks in Qatar to discuss the flow of shipping.

[Gary Parrish]

Well, that's good. That's quite the presumption. Open is opening faster than expected. They don't know what I expect.

[Matt Norlander]

We're getting there.

[Gary Parrish]

I did not expect it to ever be closed, all right? I didn't even know it existed. I didn't even know it was a thing.

[Matt Norlander]

Most of us didn't know it was a thing.

[Gary Parrish]

Who knew that there was this whole important straight over there? Like who even knew?

[Matt Norlander]

Well, I generally had an understanding that a significant amount of the world's oil came from the Middle east. And so there was. There were passageways and I thought it

[Gary Parrish]

all came from land. I thought all the oil came from land.

[Matt Norlander]

Wyoming, the Dakotas.

[Gary Parrish]

Yes. I thought Billy Bob Thornton was in charge of all the oil and everything was fine. Turns out Billy Bob is not nearly as important in the oil industry as he. As he presents himself. I thought Billy Bob was. I thought Billy Bob was in charge of the oil. It turns out it's actually some other people. Hormuz. It's wild, man. I've learned a lot this year. I've learned a lot this year. This has been an educational year for

[Matt Norlander]

me to get out of here, but I'm just looking. Is Taylor Swift really getting married at the Garden this weekend?

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. You think she's going to ride in that big elevator that we all get to ride in? I love that elevator.

[Matt Norlander]

The. Yeah, that's. Come on, man. Why I can't.

[Gary Parrish]

The big cargo elevator.

[Matt Norlander]

Cargo elevator? Yeah. Yeah. The freight. The freight elevator.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah. They need it for elephants. That's what I was remember hearing one time.

[Matt Norlander]

Correct.

[Gary Parrish]

It's a.

[Matt Norlander]

It's a. It's a big ass elevator. That's for sure, man. It'd be phenomenal if she did that with an elephant.

[Gary Parrish]

If she wrote it with an elephant. It'd be phenomenal if it was her.

[Matt Norlander]

Some sort of acknowledgment of Kemba's crossover on Gary McGee. I mean, I understand the Knicks just won the title and that came with it. Game four is an all timer, but there's some big time college basketball moments over the decades I'd like to see acknowledged.

[Gary Parrish]

Did you see what tmz? TMZ reported the Knicks starting lineup got invited.

[Matt Norlander]

The entire Knicks starting lineup was invited to Taylor Swift and Travis O.J.

[Gary Parrish]

anunoby's going to Taylor Swift's wedding. That's just sort of funny to me.

[Matt Norlander]

You think he's actually going?

[Gary Parrish]

I think. I don't think he'll remember it.

[Matt Norlander]

Why? I think he'll be wrapped the show. I got stuff to do. Why the Garden?

[Gary Parrish]

I don't.

[Matt Norlander]

I don't understand. Why get married at msg?

[Gary Parrish]

Because you can, I guess.

[Matt Norlander]

I don't get that. Just go to Watch Hill, Rhode island, where everyone thought it was going to be. And maybe it's. Maybe she's literally too big of A star for that community.

[Gary Parrish]

I mean, I did some reading. Here's what I read. They. They had a place secured in Rhode island, and. And it leaked. And when it leaked, they canceled the whole thing. They basically said, if this leaks, we're done. And it leaked, and they said, we're done. That's what I read. I think that was page six.

[Matt Norlander]

Everything in page Six is accurate, so.

[Gary Parrish]

Of course it is. Of course it is. All right.

[Matt Norlander]

That's really a show now.

[Gary Parrish]

All right. Yeah, I gotta go. I gotta go. All right. Shouts to Devin Downey.

[Matt Norlander]

We'll talk to you when we talk you.

[Gary Parrish]

Yeah, we'll talk to you when we talk to you. Shout out to Chester, South Carolina, Terry Teagle. He's a legend. Huck Larnell Hormuz.

[Matt Norlander]

Damn it.

[Gary Parrish]

You're not subscribed. Please go subscribe anyway. Subscribe to podcasts like Apple and Spotify. More of us than there are of them.

[Matt Norlander]

Taylor, definitely an us.

[Gary Parrish]

I mean, definitely an us. I mean, definitely. Travis, definitely us.

[Matt Norlander]

Yeah, a whole lot of us is. A whole lot of us is going

[Gary Parrish]

to be in midtown Manhattan this weekend celebrating premarital sex. And then. And then, I assume, I assume postmartal sex consummation.

[Matt Norlander]

Of course.

[Gary Parrish]

I assume. I assume, I assume they gonna knock out both this weekend and they're both in the garden. Could you have premarital sex and postmartal sex in the garden on the same night?

[Matt Norlander]

I mean, you could say you can't. I'm sure there are people that are out there that have at some.

[Gary Parrish]

Conceivably. Who you think Stevie Nicks?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Probably.

[Matt Norlander]

Isn't she performing?

[Gary Parrish]

Let's the hell out of here. Okay. Okay. All right, we got to go. All right, everybody have a good time. We'll talk to you later.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Bye.

[Gary Parrish]

Bye.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Paramount podcast tests.

[Gary Parrish]

When Conor McGregor fights, you're witnessing something once in a lifetime.

[Matt Norlander]

Surprise, surprise, the king is back.

[Gary Parrish]

Saturday, July 11th on Paramount. Plus, the King returns to the Octagon.

[Matt Norlander]

Oh, Conor McGregor transcended the sport, but

[Gary Parrish]

the throne is for the taking. Max Holloway.

[Matt Norlander]

I'm right here.

[Gary Parrish]

Conor McGregor versus Max Holloway.

[Matt Norlander]

You're in for a treat.

[Gary Parrish]

UFC 329, July 11th at 9 Eastern Stream. Every fight free with your subscription only on Paramount.

[Matt Norlander]

Plus.