Sen. Tim Scott, Rep. Mike Turner, Amb. Michael Leiter

Summary

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Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan

Aired: July 12, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode is dominated by breaking news of Senator Lindsey Graham’s sudden death, his impact on U.S. politics, foreign policy, and upcoming geopolitical crises, with in-depth conversations focused on how leaders and allies will navigate the resulting vacuum both in Washington and abroad. The episode also dives into escalating U.S.-Iran tensions, the regional security outlook in the Middle East, U.S. domestic policy, and features reflections from major figures.

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Key Segments and Insights

I. Remembering Senator Lindsey Graham

[00:30–13:01]

Overview

• The nation wakes up to news of Senator Lindsey Graham’s death at 71, reportedly from a brief and sudden illness, likely a heart attack.
• Graham’s three-decade congressional career spanned military service, bipartisan cooperation, and fierce advocacy on national security—especially in supporting Ukraine and Israel, and taking a hard stance on Iran.
• Leadership, humor, and bridge-building amidst polarization were key aspects of his legacy.

Senator Tim Scott Remembers Lindsey Graham

• Personal History: Orphaned young, raised his sister, character shaped by hardship.
  • “His mother dies of cancer 15 months later. His dad dies of a massive heart attack. He adopts his 13-year-old sister when he was just 19 years old...that framed his worldview.” —Tim Scott (04:10)
• Service:
  • Emphasized humility and advocacy for the “invisible,” everyday South Carolinians.
  • 30 years in uniform; known as a “fierce fighter” on foreign policy
  • “He loved America passionately. He served us brilliantly, and he will be missed undeniably.” —Tim Scott (06:23)
• Humor and Humanity:
  • “When I first started my South Carolina prayer breakfast in D.C....I called Lindsay on the phone... He says, ‘I’m not coming. Even if Jesus comes before 10am.’ Of course at 8:31 who walks through the door? Lindsey Graham.” —Tim Scott (05:48)
• Plans to Honor:
  • Renaming the SC Delegation Prayer Breakfast after him. Senate leadership to commemorate throughout the term.

Political Vacuum and Filling His Shoes

• Scott highlights Graham’s unique bridge-building between lawmakers and the White House, specifically President Trump, through personal diplomacy.
  • “I don't know anyone who can fill the shoes of Lindsey Graham....Those disagreements...have made us stronger.” —Tim Scott (11:16)

Legislation and Foreign Policy

• Recent key legislative push: Sanctions targeting Russian oil buyers.
  • “It's way too early for me to talk politics and about the legislation Lindsey Graham sponsored. We'll get busy on that tomorrow. Today, I'm going to stay busy on his legacy.” —Tim Scott (09:25)

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II. Israeli Ambassador Dr. Michael Leiter on Graham’s Legacy and Regional Security

[13:10–21:39]

U.S.-Israel Ties and Normalization Vision

• Graham instrumental in advancing Israeli-Saudi normalization talks.
  • “He saw a vision for peace in the Middle East...that Iran is no longer a regional hegemon menacing its neighbors.” —Dr. Leiter (13:36)
• Commitment to continuing Graham’s work diplomatically:
  • “Absolutely, we have to work toward that end.” —Dr. Leiter (13:36)

U.S.-Iran Tensions and Mideast Diplomacy

• Recent collapse of U.S.–Iran truce after Iranian attack on a commercial vessel; U.S. resumes strikes.
• Israel’s stance: Will participate militarily if U.S. requests, but no request yet.
  • “If the United States calls on us to rejoin kinetic activity against Iran, we're going to be there.” —Dr. Leiter (15:34)
• Skepticism over new MOU with Iran; Israel will follow U.S. lead but remains wary of Iran’s intentions.

Lebanon and Hezbollah

• Israel–Lebanon pilot withdrawal zones dependent on Hezbollah’s removal.
  • “If Hezbollah is not dismantled, then we have to stay in our security zone.” —Dr. Leiter (17:04)
• U.S. (CENTCOM) oversees process; no delays, but implementation depends on field conditions.

Incidents in the West Bank

• Condemns violence against CNN crew; addresses controversy involving Congressman Ro Khanna:
  • “Any violence is to be condemned. No excuses. No explanations.” —Dr. Leiter (19:17)
  • Criticizes Khanna for not coordinating officially with Israeli authorities; disputes assertions from Khanna’s side.

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III. Ambassador Rahm Emanuel: U.S.–Israel and the Broader Mideast

[21:52–31:32]

Personal Reminiscences of Graham

• “We disagreed, but we weren’t disagreeable about it.” —Rahm Emanuel (22:06)
  • Highlights bipartisan work: debate rules (with McCain), AmeriCorps/Peace Corps expansion, and attempts to close Guantanamo.

Critical Speech in Israel

• Criticizes Palestinian leadership and Arab states for failing Palestinians; faults Netanyahu for “leading Israel into a dead end.”
  • “I laid out a plan that gets out of Israel being a pariah....that’s Israel’s best day and Iran’s worst day.” —Rahm Emanuel (25:27)
• Advocates for a “23-state solution,” building on Arab League recognition of Israel, and for renewed diplomatic/economic integration.
• Warns: Israel risks long-term survival by relying almost exclusively on military power.

U.S. Policy and Alliance Sustainability

• Stresses shared U.S.–Israeli security: Iron Dome funding as a model.
• Warns that U.S.–Israel alliance is polled “in the low 20s” for public support, an unsustainable trajectory.

Domestic Politics and Personal Future

• Pushes back on allegations of launching a presidential campaign from Israel.
• Emphasizes education reform as a true priority if entering national politics.
  • “We as a country, 50% of our kids cannot read at grade level and everybody in Washington is radio silence.” —Rahm Emanuel (30:29)

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IV. Rep. Mike Turner on Graham, Ukraine, and Domestic Issues

[32:07–39:38]

Graham’s Role & Ukraine/Russia Sanctions

• Turner expresses commitment to ensure Graham’s signature Russia-sanctions bill proceeds.
  • “What’s so sad about losing Lindsey is...in this debate...you can be America first and still understand that it doesn’t have to be America alone...what they saw in Lindsey was someone who was willing to stand up and say, you’re not alone, America is with you.” —Mike Turner (32:38)
• House version already passed; calls for Senate to act swiftly.

Turkey, F-35s, and NATO

• Responds to President Trump’s willingness to lift certain sanctions:
  • Turkey expected to comply by removing Russian S-400 systems to rejoin the F-35 program, which Turner labels “very promising.”
  • “Of all the senators, we agreed together...that we would be able to publicly say what we heard was very promising.” —Turner (35:01)

U.S. Election Security and Federal Oversight

• Not familiar with new DHS guidelines but voices general skepticism toward federal intervention in state-run elections.
  • Supports voter ID, opposes federal “overreach.”
  • “Having identification should be at least the way to ensure someone that we know who’s voting.” —Turner (38:22)

Immigration and Haitian TPS

• Expresses hope and advocacy to extend Temporary Protected Status for Haitian-Americans in Ohio.
  • “They’re valuable people in our community.” —Turner (39:31)

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V. General Frank McKenzie on U.S.–Iran Escalation

[40:20–45:17]

Strait of Hormuz & Military Options

• Outlines U.S. military capability to seize and control the Strait if ordered by President Trump.
  • “What he’s been trying to do is get to a diplomatic and a political solution here ... the fact of the matter is, the Iranians generally only respond to military force and to extreme pressure.” —Gen. McKenzie (40:20)
• Suggests the U.S. could even seize cargoes or territory as leverage if necessary.

Dynamics of U.S.–Iran Negotiation

• Iranians are expert at stalling; U.S. needs to focus and pressure on core issues: ballistic missiles, proxy support, opening the Strait.

Regional Fallout

• Iran continues to launch missiles affecting U.S. allies but not as powerful as war games predicted; credits CENTCOM for limiting Iranian capabilities.

Tribute to Graham

• “He embodies the concept of the citizen soldier.” —Gen. McKenzie (44:44)

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Scott: “If you want to know who he was, he was a person who believed that when you left this country you should be safe...no matter what it cost.” (08:24)
• Rahm Emanuel: “You can’t just kill your way out of solving every single national security problem that you have.” (27:19)
• Dr. Leiter: “If the United States calls on us to rejoin kinetic activity against Iran, we're going to be there.” (15:34)
• Mike Turner: “What they saw in Lindsey was someone who was willing to stand up and say, you’re not alone, America is with you.” (32:38)
• Gen. McKenzie: “If you want to gain concessions from Iran, you have to directly pressure the regime, and you have to do so in a way that perhaps is existential to them.” (41:48)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:30: Breaking news—Lindsey Graham’s death and recap of his career
• 04:05: Tim Scott’s personal memories and tribute
• 06:39: Discussion of Graham’s health and sudden passing
• 08:55: Margaret Brennan on Graham’s last legislative efforts in Ukraine
• 13:10: Dr. Michael Leiter on Graham’s Mideast vision and Iran crisis
• 17:04: Israel–Lebanon–Hezbollah triage and policy nuances
• 19:17: Leiter condemns West Bank violence
• 22:06: Rahm Emanuel shares bipartisan memories of Graham
• 25:27: Emanuel’s warning about Israel’s “territorial pariah” status and his peace plan
• 27:19: Emanuel: “You can’t just kill your way out of solving...national security problem”
• 32:07: Mike Turner on the Ukraine bill and NATO/Turkey/F-35s
• 36:50: Turner on new U.S. election security policies
• 39:38: Turner on Haitian TPS in Ohio
• 40:20: Gen. McKenzie analyzes U.S. options in the Strait of Hormuz, Iran’s response
• 44:44: McKenzie’s tribute to Graham and the “citizen soldier”

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Memorable Moments

• Scott’s Anecdote: Graham joking he wouldn’t come to prayer breakfast “even if Jesus comes before 10am”—then showing up anyway.
• Graham’s Legislative Impact: Bipartisan bill to sanction Russian oil buyers, now at an inflection point after his death.
• Leiter’s Caution: Highlights that real implementation on the ground (Lebanon/Hezbollah) remains tied to dismantling Iran-backed militias.
• Emanuel’s Provocation: Open criticism of all regional leaders, including the U.S. and Israel—calls for an “economic corridor” and return to diplomacy.
• Turner’s Reflection: Sums up Graham’s “America is with you” philosophy at NATO summits.
• McKenzie’s Realpolitik: Stresses military pressure as only language Iran understands, while ruling out regime change.

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Summary Table

| Topic | Speaker(s) | Highlights | Timestamps | |-------------------------------------------|------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Graham’s career & legacy | Tim Scott | Personal stories, bridge-building, prayer breakfast, leadership vacuum, foreign policy focus | 04:05–13:01 | | Israel’s perspective & regional crisis | Dr. Michael Leiter | Tribute to Graham, Iran crisis, Hezbollah/Lebanon, U.S.–Israel normalization | 13:10–21:39 | | U.S.–Israel policy & peace initiatives | Rahm Emanuel | Bipartisan history, criticism of both sides, warning to Israel, 23-state peace plan | 21:52–31:32 | | Ukraine, NATO, U.S. elections, immigration| Mike Turner | Graham’s Ukraine bill, NATO/Turkey’s F35, election security, immigration (Haitian TPS) | 32:07–39:38 | | U.S. force posture on Iran/Strait of Hormuz| Gen. Frank McKenzie | U.S. readiness, diplomatic limits, need for pressure, tributes to Graham | 40:20–45:17 |

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Conclusion

This episode serves as both an immediate memorial to Senator Lindsey Graham’s pivotal presence in American politics and a serious roundtable on U.S. leadership in a world facing new dangers—from the future of Ukraine and Israel, to escalating conflict with Iran, and domestic policy challenges. Each participant underscores the outsized influence Graham wielded, the uncertainty of filling his void, and the unfinished business he leaves behind.

Transcript

[General Frank McKenzie]

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[Senator Tim Scott]

An army hung on her every word.

[Margaret Brennan]

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[Commercial Announcer]

Margaret.

[Margaret Brennan]

I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington. And today on FACE THE Nation. Breaking overnight, a giant of the Senate Republican Lindsey Graham has died. And in the Mideast, the US And Iran trade. New attacks rattling Washington this morning, the unexpected news that Senator Graham has died from what his office calls a brief and sudden illness at the age of 71. We'll have the latest and talk with fellow South Carolina Senator Tim Scott about Graham's impact in Washington. And plus, new developments overseas. U.S. central Command has launched a new wave of strikes against Iran after its military tactic container ship in the Strait of Hormuz in defiance of US Demands to keep the waterway open. What's next for the security of the region after President Trump declared that fragile ceasefire deal to be over? We'll be joined by former CENTCOM Commander Frank McKenzie, Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner and Israel's ambassador, Dr. Michael Leiter. Talk with Democrat Rahm Emanuel, who's just back from delivering a speech in Tel Aviv about the future of U. S. Israeli relations. It's all just ahead on Face THE Nation. Good morning, and welcome to FACE THE Nation. Washington is waking up to stunning news that Trump ally and longtime Republican Senator Lindsey Graham has died. Calls to emergency dispatch indicate first responders had performed CPR before a cardiac arrest was declared at Graham's home in the Capitol hill neighborhood in D.C. last night. The senator from South Carolina was first elected to the House in 1994 before joining the Senate in 2003. With his signature Southern twang, he was a singular voice on US national security and an advocate for Ukraine. Graham had just returned from Kyiv, where he'd met Friday with President Volodymyr Zelensky. He pressed both Trump and Biden administrations to get tougher on Russia, stay close to Israel, and he supported aggressive military action against Iran. In years past, he'd worked across the aisle on thorny issues like immigration reform with close allies Senators John McCain and Joe Lieberman, the group once dubbed the three amigos. While he had once challenged Donald Trump for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, in recent years, Graham had become his ally. In a truth social post overnight, President Trump called Graham one of the greatest people and senators I have ever Known and a true American patriot who was always working. After 31 years in Congress, Graham had been seeking a fifth term as his senator. Now South Carolina's governor will appoint an interim replacement for his seat to serve out the remaining five months of the term. Republicans will now rush to hold a special primary in August to pick Graham's replacement on the ballot ahead of the general election in November. We go now to South Carolina Republican Senator Tim Scott. Senator, good morning and we are sorry for your loss. As Americans wake up this morning, I wonder how you would have them remember Senator Graham, someone who served this country in uniform, but also at the Capitol for so many decades.

[Senator Tim Scott]

Margaret, thank you for your condolences. And America certainly has lost a statesman. I have lost a friend. To remember Lindsey Graham, Margaret, is honestly to remember his very humble beginnings. I'm not sure everyone connects the dots on who he is and why he is. His mother dies of cancer 15 months later. His dad dies of a massive heart attack. He adopts his 13 year old sister when he was just 19 years old and a student at the University of South Carolina. And that remarkably hard and harsh beginning would frame his worldview. And as a public servant, Margaret, the one thing that we don't oftentimes think about with Lindsay is he wanted to make sure if you needed help and he could help, he was there. He wanted to make sure that those who would sometimes feel invisible that they were seen. And he did an incredible job in South Carolina of providing the kind of public service that you would want to see from your elected official. He, he also understood that he worked for the people of South Carolina and not he was just a leader of South Carolina. Of course there's a foreign policy portfolio that's undeniable, that was synonymous to who we knew him to be in public service. But as a South Carolinian, as a friend, I got to tell you he was just a witty guy. He was always funny. I'll tell you one quick story, Margaret. When I first started my South Carolina prayer breakfast in D.C. for those of us who came from South Carolina, I called Lindsay on the phone and I knew he was not a morning person. And prayer Breakfast starts 8:30 in the morning. And I said, lindsay, will you come? He says, I'm not coming. Even if Jesus comes before 10am I just laughed out loud. And of course at 8:31 who walks through the door? Lindsey Graham. He was always committed to the priorities that he thought was important, not just for him, but for me. And it's one of those times when you just know who he is as a person and then as a public servant. We certainly know him as a fierce fighter on foreign policy, as a person who put on the uniform for 30 years, a colonel in our military. He loved America passionately. He served us brilliantly, and he will be missed undeniably.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah, I want to, you know, Senator Graham's staff said that he had a sudden and brief illness. Do you know what happened? Because it shocked us, frankly, overnight.

[Senator Tim Scott]

Yeah, I don't know the details any more than his staff has released. My hunch was it was a heart attack. But I hate to just give you my opinion on what I've heard from people that are close in circle. But I think we'll have more information over the next couple days. But it appears to have been a heart attack.

[Margaret Brennan]

You know, you mentioned the senator's sense of humor. He would come on this program and he would use this platform. He was very clear he was coming on television because he had a message, often for the president of the United States himself, that he wanted Mr. Trump to hear. He was constantly flying around the world. I wonder how Republican leadership plans to honor his legacy.

[Senator Tim Scott]

Well, you know, one of the things that I think we should do, obviously that south side Prayer breakfast is coming up for me later this month. I'm going to rename it in honor of Lindsey Graham. And we'll now have the Lindsey Graham prayer Breakfast going on for as long as I'm in public service number one. Number two, as Senate leadership comes together, I talk to John Thune about 3, about 4:30 this morning, and he and I and John Barrasso and others will find the appropriate way to honor him all week and frankly, the rest of this term. I will say that one of the ways we can best honor Lindsey Graham is to understand the importance that he placed on America, American safety abroad.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah.

[Senator Tim Scott]

If you want to know who he was, he was a person who believed that when you left this country, you should be safe no matter where you go and no matter what it cost. And that's why, as a guy who became the budget chair, Margaret, one of the funniest stories I remember sitting there with Lindsey Graham, he said, I am now the budget chair and I know nothing about money, I know nothing about numbers. But I'm going to do the job anyways. And as you can tell, we got that budget tool called reconcilediation done once, twice. I spoke to Senator, he knew people.

[Margaret Brennan]

I spoke to Senator Graham a number of times on Friday when he was in Kiev. We spoke by phone. And I know he was so Excited that the White House was finally going to support this bill he'd been working on with Senator Blumenthal to go tough on Russia and its biggest oil buyers. He said he'd got 85 signatories. He said, this is going to. This is going to fly through. Are you going to honor him by making that vote happen? Is there a commitment to it?

[Senator Tim Scott]

Well, Margaret, it's way too early for me to talk politics and about the legislation at Lindsey Graham sponsored. We'll get busy on that tomorrow. Today, I'm going to stay busy on his legacy and praying for his sister and the rest of the country who's lost a powerful leader. There are many ways for us to honor Lindsey Graham today. The best way for me to honor him is to talk about his legacy as a person and as a public service. No doubt foreign policy will be one of the ways that we get to honor him. I won't be specific because, frankly, it's going to take the whole of leadership to come to the decisions on the way to do that.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah, I just. The excitement in his voice on that one stood out to me.

[Senator Tim Scott]

Margaret, you know him as well as anyone in this public forum because he was so committed to public service, and I know your family has been committed to public service as well, in the same way that he wore the uniform. And one of the ways that we will demonstrate our commitment to Lindsey, my hope is to focus on the priorities that he had established for this nation from a global perspective, and hopefully the White House, the Senate, frankly, Republicans and Democrats, will come together and do the things that we ought to do for the American people, and that will be the best way we can honor his legacy.

[Margaret Brennan]

You know, I know it is too early to begin talking about who could possibly even try to fill his shoes for the remainder of his term. But I do know that the role Lindsey Graham played was a key one for the party, connecting with a president that, frankly, sometimes Republicans have had some tension with. He'd be out there. Remember him saying, oh, Margaret, I spent four and a half hours with the president on the golf course yesterday, and here's what we're going to do. Who can step up and help create that connective tissue between the White House and lawmakers now?

[Senator Tim Scott]

Well, I don't know anyone who can fill the shoes of Lindsey Graham. The one thing I can say that you just emphasized was the important role that he played in building bridges in life just as a part of who he was. And that's why I started off with the story of those who felt Invisible. And in his presence, you knew you were seen. And we're going to have an important conversation to come. President Trump is committed to the Republican Party and frankly to the Republican Senate. There are disagreements without any question. But the good news is those disagreements so far have made us stronger. And Lindsey Graham being on the phone with the president every single day was helpful without any question. Playing golf every weekend for four hours. How anybody plays golf for four hours, I'll never know because I've never played for two hours. But the truth of the matter is it was the bond that he forged on the golf course that made him such a powerful advocate for the president and a powerful advocate for us with the president. And so we'll need that. But more importantly, what we'll need is a champion who steps up to the plate, not for politics, but for serving our country. That is who Lindsey was. He had friends on both sides of the aisle. You're seeing world leaders come out across the the world for Lindsey Graham. And why? Because he put others first. It is a biblical principle to let others shine more than you. And he's done that really well even in his passing. He is. Iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens the other. We're now watching the world respond to the impact that Lindsey Graham had, not just here at home in South Carolina, but but around the world.

[Margaret Brennan]

Senator Scott, thank you for your remembrances this morning.

[Senator Tim Scott]

Yes, ma'.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Am.

[Margaret Brennan]

Face Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us. We're joined now by Israel's ambassador to the United States, Dr. Michael Leider. Good to have you back here.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Good morning.

[Margaret Brennan]

Your prime minister this morning has been honoring Senator Lindsey Graham. I know he was a fierce advocate for Israel, and he also was really pushing for normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Just three weeks ago on this program, he made that pitch. I wonder if you think there is a way to carry on his legacy through continuing that kind of diplomatic work.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Well, absolutely. Lindsey was a dear friend. My first day in Washington, Jan. 27, 2025, the first phone call I got once I landed on my seat, the embassy was from Lindsey Graham. He said, can we have dinner tonight? And we've been talking about normalization in the Middle east for the past year and a half. And he was not only a fierce advocate of defeating this Iranian regime, he was also a fierce advocate of what would happen afterwards. And he saw he had a vision for peace in the Middle east. And absolutely, we have to work toward that end, but it really is going to happen. If his first part of that vision is fulfilled and that's that Iran is no longer a regional hegemon menacing its neighbors.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, three weeks ago, Lindsey Graham said on this program 2026, that was his vow that normalization would happen. So we'll have to follow that. We still have some time, we still have some. About the other significant development overnight with Iran, the attempt to revive this truce between the United States and Iran clearly has just collapsed. This was just an attempt to have a pause to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Frankly, it was pretty limited in scope. But then the IRGC fired on a commercial vessel. The United States has resumed bombing. For the moment, Iran has not fired on Israel, Israel has not fired on Iran. Does Israel intend to stay on the sidelines? How do we see this conflict at this point?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

President Trump has been consistent, I think, throughout this confrontation. If talks will work, if diplomacy can work, then he's in favor of the diplomatic route. But when it doesn't work, you have to go back to military and kinetic activity. When the United States signed the MOU with Iran just a few weeks ago, there was one item, just one thing that the Iranians had to fulfill and that was keeping the straits open and that they've completely ignored. So they forced the US to go back into kinetic activity. We're a partner or an ally. If the United States calls on us to rejoin kinetic activity against Iran, we're going to be there for the United States.

[Margaret Brennan]

But at the moment, the US Is asking you to wait.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

I didn't say that. I said the United States has not asked us to join the effort. But if that request will come in, we're going to be there.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, that mou, when it was signed by the President, Versailles and then by the Vice President, your government was opposed to this, made no mistake that Prime Minister Netanyahu saw big flaws in this deal. When you saw what happened, was there a moment of I told you so here?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

No, that's not the nature of our relationship. We express our opinion, we saw flaws, but we also expressed hope that it would work. If at the end of the day, 60 days after the MOU, we've got a denuclearized Iran, we've got Iran not producing ballistic missiles. That is the most important history. Well, if it would be 90 days or 120 days, if we have Iran that's denuclearized, not building ballistic missiles, not supporting proxies around the region, just not being a menacing, mayhem spreading regime, then we will have accomplished it without kinetic activity. We have doubts about the possibility of that actually working. But all we do is express our opinion.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, very clear about the very first few lines of the MoU that mention Lebanon. And that's where I want to go next. Because the US has been trying to broker these talks between the Israeli government and the Lebanese government to essentially work together against Hezbollah, which is backed Iran. Under the framework that was reached last month, Israel pledged to withdraw from areas of southern Lebanon. Do you still intend to do that? What does that timeline look like?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Well, I'm actually leading the negotiations on Israel's behalf with Lebanon. So I know a thing or two about the trilateral agreement. And what the agreement with Lebanon does is completely remove Iran from the paradigm. Iran is not to be involved in Lebanon. They have no business in Lebanon. Hezbollah has no business in Lebanon. As a matter of fact, Israel and Lebanon are on the same page. We want Hezbollah out for our security and sovereignty. We can withdraw the moment the Hezbollah is dismantled. If Hezbollah is not dismantled, then we have to stay in our security zone because we're not going to go back to a situation where our citizens are gonna be threatened by an Iranian proxy firing missiles and building tunnels so they can attack like Hamas did on October 7th.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, that's different from what the US State Department has lined up here, which is specifically two pilot zones that Israel is supposed to withdraw from and CENTCOM would oversee.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

They're pilot zones.

[Margaret Brennan]

When does that happen?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Well, we're preparing it right now, but the whole idea of the Lebanon.

[Margaret Brennan]

Who said that's delayed?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

No, it's not delayed. We're working together with CENTCOM and the Lebanese armed forces to create the conditions so that we can actually move into a situation where the pilot zones are receptive to Lebanese armed forces. If they're not going to be receptive and Hezbollah is going to stay there, we haven't accomplished anything. And that's why they're called pilot zones. If it works, then we continue the withdrawal. If it doesn't work, then we stay where we are.

[Margaret Brennan]

Are you still going to Rome to conduct these talks? And will those pilot zone withdraw happen anytime soon?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

I certainly hope they're planned for the next few weeks. We're working on that together with centcom. Am I still going to Rome? That's going to be a question regarding the Senator Graham funeral, but certainly the talks will continue in Rome.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, before I let you go, there were two high profile incidents I want to quickly touch on here. One, a CNN crew attacked in the west bank by what they say were four settlers. There was also an incident with Ro Khanna, the congressman from California who said he was. His vehicles he was in were stopped by Israeli settlers and then when the IDF showed up, they were on the side of the settlers, not him. He said it's not a good idea to detain long shot presidential candidates. It was a warning to your government. Do you think your government needs to apologize to both him and those CNN journalists?

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Any violence is to be condemned. No excuses. No explanations. Okay. So if CNN crew was attacked, that needs to be condemned. And I'm doing so right now. And we need to do a better job.

[Margaret Brennan]

You are condemning it. Their report is Monday.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

If it actually took place as they've reported it. Absolutely condemning it. We need to rein in violence on all sides. Now, in terms of Ro Khanna, we reached out to him when we heard he was going to Israel. The Israeli embassy in Washington, as all congressmen do, they coordinate their trip with the Israeli government. We suggested he visit with survivors of the October 7th massacre, that he visit the borders so he understands, understands the issues that we have on our borders and so on. He ignored that and he decided to coordinate his trip not with Israel, but with Palestinian activists and with J Street, which is a anti government, anti Israeli government advocacy group here in Washington. So, you know, he coordinated.

[Margaret Brennan]

So it's a Jewish Slavic group that is supportive of a different path for Israel.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Yeah, yeah. I play tennis once a year. That doesn't make me a tennis player. The fact that they call themselves a Jewish organization is irrelevant. They're a advocacy group against the government of Israel. That has to be clear.

[Margaret Brennan]

Netanyahu government.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

That's what you mean.

[Margaret Brennan]

The government you work for currently.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

And Congressman Khan hasn't made no secret about his antipathy towards the government of Israel as well. So perhaps if he would have coordinated the trip and then, you know, to have this incident on Wednesday and wait to release it on Saturday, maybe this had more something to do with his support of Graham Platner beforehand and the difficulties he had with that and trying to shift the focus to something else, perhaps. I'm asking a question.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, we did hear from Congressman Khanna who said that there was an alert to the embassy on his behalf and that they asked for the news held until he was.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

There was a question, there was not an alert, there was a question about visas. That's all. But when we requested that he coordinate the trip with us, he rejected that by basically staying silent. So that's unfortunate. This whole incident is unfortunate. And if somebody, it's kind of interesting that somebody wants to declare a presidential run by running off to Israel. That's strange.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, we're going to have to leave it there, sir. There's so much more to talk about with you, but I'm out of time. Thank you for coming.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Thank you. Margaret continued.

[Margaret Brennan]

We'll be right back with a lot more FACE the Nations Day. With us we go now to the former mayor of Chicago and the former US Ambassador to Japan, Rahm Emanuel. Welcome to FACE THE Nation, Ambassador.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Thanks, Margaret.

[Margaret Brennan]

I have so much to get to with you, but I know you worked with Senator Lindsey Graham for a time here in Washington. You weren't exactly on the same page politically. But I wonder your thoughts on his passing.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Good observation. No. Look, you lost a patriot. We disagreed, but we weren't disagreeable about it. There were three things we worked on. One, he represented John McCain. I represented then Senator Obama on the debate rules. Two, when we had a meeting during the transition, Senator McCain, Lindsey, the president elect, myself, we agreed to work on a national service bill which we actually got done in spring 09 that doubled size for AmeriCorps and for the Peace Corps. And then third, our final which was really the most difficult, but we got to an agreement which was to close Guantanamo. Senator Levin Lindsey, my self represented administration. We got to a final issue. The attorney general was against it, which was the trial of the sheikh, which he wanted civilian. Lindsey said it had to be military court to get the 15 votes. That's not what happened. And so therefore and it was one political analysis which I thought was accurate versus a legal analysis which was maybe by the law but wasn't going to happen. And so we worked at my desk as the chief of staff. I don't know the dozen meetings between Carl 11, myself and the senator that would actually have closed Guantanamo, moved all the prisoners out and brought that chapter to America to end. Now, did we see everything 100%. No. Did we find compromise? Absolutely.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah. Well, Ambassador, we need to take a break and finish our conversation about the significant speech you just gave in Israel a few days ago. But we're going to do that in a minute. I hope everyone will stay with us. We will be right back.

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[Margaret Brennan]

Welcome back to Face the Nation. We continue our conversation now with Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. Ambassador, you are just back from a trip overseas. Your family, I know, has deep ties to Israel. You worked during the Clinton administration, the Obama administration, on important Mideast issues. In this speech you just delivered, you were very critical of Palestinian authorities leadership failures. You faulted Arab states for not doing more in a credible way for the Palestinian people. And then you took aim at Prime Minister Netanyahu saying he has led his country into a dead end. What do you hope you accomplished?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well, it was not just a criticism. All those are clear. And I was stated that. I also said the United States made mistakes in the past. But I laid out a plan that gets out of Israel being a pariah. It's went from a technological prowess to a territorial pariah. And for a small nation that's not survivable. In 22 years it will be 100 years old. You cannot survive like this. So one, not a two state solution, a 23 state solution, taking the Arab League's offer to recognize the state of Israel, all 21 nations, if they come to an agreement on security for the state of Israel, which is essential, and Palestinian sovereignty. That's Israel's best day and Iran's worst day. Second, building off the India Mideast European Economic Corridor, which would be the most important trade route and put Israel's technological prowess at the center, break into the economic integration that's happening. So that was a plan. Others can offer theirs. But to me it addresses the single most important thing for the future of this alliance, that you cannot reduce your national security apparatus with military power, economic statecraft, political persuasion and cultural attraction. Reduce three of them and let them atrophy. And your entire national security apparatus is only military power. And that's an example of how Israel has a breakout that is good for alliance. The United States is strong with NATO. You can see that in public opinion, United States public opinion is also strong with our Asian allies. This is the only ally that is in the low 20s in support. That is not a sustainable path for an alliance. That's essential for Israel, America security.

[Margaret Brennan]

You said the current Israeli government, the Netanyahu government views every security challenge as a nail and Israel's military as a hammer. That sounded very similar to me, at least to this.

[Dr. Michael Leiter]

Listen, you're a country of 9 million people.

[Rahm Emanuel]

You can't just kill your way out of solving every single national security problem that you have.

[Margaret Brennan]

I imagine there aren't a lot of points of agreement between you and the Vice President JD Vance but do you see this correct on the right and left as a major shift in policy here for the United States that does not turn around.

[Rahm Emanuel]

So two things, Margaret. In 2009 when I challenged as chief of staff for President Obama, I challenged the Prime Minister directly, not I didn't need this war directly. That what you're doing on housing in the west bank will lead to perpetual conflict and isolation. If there was a prediction I wanted to be wrong on that was it. So telling somebody the truth, even when it's painful, that's not new to me. I was also in the room with President Obama when we funded and started funding the Iron Dome that has protected thousands of Israeli civilians. I believe funding the Iron Dome is right for America's strategy, right for Israel. I think making sure that you're not having aundermining the west bank or the possibility of a two state solution, a 23 state solution is also in Israel's security interest. And I want to get back to those go hand in hand. And so my view is take Syria for example. There's no more Assad. You have a head of Syria that is the transitway to Hezbollah from Iran of all their weapons. The Syrian head of state has said that he Iran is a problem and that Israel and he should have a security agreement. Nobody's called. I said I'll pay for the phone call charges, pick up the phone and come to a security agreement where your northern part, Jordan is secure on the east, Egypt is secure on the south, Syria, you would actually have a security agreement that breaks out diplomacy. Political strategy is dormant as a part of Israel's national security and that therefore harms the United States. My number one goal, what advances America's interests if they don't change the status quo today is unsustainable. I did it in the interests of America. The alliance with an ally that is isolated politically at home and abroad.

[Margaret Brennan]

No. And to your point, I was in Syria in September and I saw the parts of Damascus that were bombed by the Netanyahu government very recently.

[Rahm Emanuel]

You would cut off Hezbollah. You would cut off Hezbollah from Iranian weapons. That's in your national security.

[Margaret Brennan]

Trump might be trying to do that.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Require the military.

[Margaret Brennan]

Trump may be trying to do that.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Once again, I offer my telephone card at&t. You can use it anytime they can make a call to Damascus.

[Margaret Brennan]

But bringing you back here to home, when I just finished that conversation with the current Israeli ambassador to the United States, who, by the way, very much supports Israeli settlements in the west bank, as you know, he did take a hit there at those trying to launch presidential campaigns from his country. He was speaking about Representative Ro Khanna and what happened to him in the West Bank. But some are saying that about you too, sir. I mean, how do you respond to that? And do you agree with words like apartheid and genocide that progressive Democrats like Khanna use to talk about the current Israeli government?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Second, I was invited by Tel Aviv University. So I took it up. And I didn't just offer criticism. I offered a plan for peace. Second, I go back to working on this with President Clinton on both the Oslo Accords, the Y Plantation, Camp David and with President Obama. And third, if it comes to where you start or how you do, I haven't decided whether I was running for president, but the first thing I did was go to Mississippi that has moved from 49th to 9th on reading scores. I have made education the core. We as a country, 50% of our kids cannot read at grade level and everybody in Washington is radio silence on the future of this country. So if there's going to be a place, it wasn't the Middle east. It was actually down in Mississippi. I went. That is where the future of America is now. One thing I know, Margaret, about the White House, you have to be good in the situation room, the boardroom, the break room and the classroom. And the problem for both parties is one stuck in the bathroom and the other one stuck in the bedroom. Get out and focus on the future Ambassador.

[Margaret Brennan]

We'll leave it there. Look forward to having you back to talk more. We'll be right back.

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[Margaret Brennan]

And we're joined now by Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. It is good to have you here, Congressman. I know you are a friend to Ukraine. Senator Graham, certainly, as I mentioned, he was so excited about finally getting to move this sanctions and tariffs bill. Do you think that this will go forward without a champion like him behind it?

[Congressman Mike Turner]

Well, let's hope. Let's hope, as you had indicated, that that is one of the legacies that the Senate will move his bill. You know, I was at the NATO summit with Lindsey Graham and other senators last week. Senator Shaheen Durbin Rounds. And as we met with Zelensky, Lindsey Griffin was making the point of the need for this sanctions bill that has passed the House and that I've co sponsored and that should pass the Senate that Lindsey has been such a champion for. It was his bill. What's so sad about losing Lindsey is that in this debate now that we have of America first, you can be America first and still understand that it doesn't have to be America alone that allies want America's voice. America's voice is important. America needs to stand for freedom and democracy and liberty. And that's what they saw in the voice of Lindsey Graham, in McCain's voice and Reagan's voice. And what they saw in Lindsey was someone who was willing to stand up and say, you're not alone, America is with you. We're not going to do it for you. We're not going to, you know, come in and decide for you, but you're not going to be alone. And he was that voice with Ukraine, having just gone to Ukraine saying, we're going to be with you. And this bill would be an important symbolism to say we're going to be with Ukraine. And I certainly hope the Senate moves it this week and we can put it on the president's desk this week. As you had said earlier, he had been in touch with you and said he believed he had movement from the White House for that bill. We should pass this bill put on the president's desk.

[Margaret Brennan]

Do you know if Republican leadership has considered that at all at this point?

[Congressman Mike Turner]

I don't. I know that, you know, we certainly have the news where they had just said upon our return from the NATO summit that they believed that they could move this in the Senate. The House has already passed a version of this bill. So I know there's broad support. There were, you know, more than a, you know, veto proof number of senators who co sponsored it. With the White House's support, this bill could be on the president's desk this week.

[Margaret Brennan]

Let me ask you as well about NATO. You had voted for a bill years ago, Catsa, we'll call it, that would challenge what Turkey had done, which was buy this Russian weapons system. And President Trump said this week that he's okay with lifting some of the sanctions and letting Turkey have the F35 fighter. How could that happen and not violate the law that you supported?

[Congressman Mike Turner]

All right, so you're speaking of the S400, which is the Russian air defense system that Turkey had purchased. And during that time a Congress had passed, which had been signed into law, a bill that would restrict the president's ability in the first Trump administration right to waive sanctions that were placed on Turkey, including had taken them out of the F35 program. Turkey has signaled that they are now in a position that they want to comply with that bill. That would put them in a position where the S400 would no longer be an impediment to their entering back into the F35 program. Hope that that occurs. They'll sell it to the, the information, you know, I can't disclose what they had told to us, but it's very promising. Of all the senators, we agreed together that we would be able to publicly say what we heard was very promising. And Senator Shaheen has said, you know, she was one of the original authors of this, she believes it's promising if they do this. And to get them back in the F35 program is incredibly important. They're a member of NATO, a very strong member of NATO, having just, of course, hosted the summit, which was very successful. I certainly hope that they follow through and that they do so in a manner that returns them. They were also a producer of parts for the F35, so entering back into production would be very, very important.

[Margaret Brennan]

I want to ask you about some other things on the domestic front as well. Late Friday, Homeland Security made an announcement that they're going to change. They want states to change the way that elections are conducted, or if states refuse, they'll lose millions in federal terrorism prevention funds. So there are a list of things in there, including switching to paper ballots, which like nearly every single state, has a paper backup system at this point. What do you think of this federal pressure to get states to change their elections.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

Right. So I'm not really familiar with this announcement. Obviously, there is concern in Congress of federal intervention on the election as a conservative you must on the state side. But at the same time there is also or America first the provisions of the bills that are moving through the House that relate to ensuring that we have identification for people to prove that they're American citizens. Mail ballots as the president has made as a portion of his provisions that he continues to he wants to change all these things. All of those things are of concern and certainly we have to address you're

[Margaret Brennan]

how many days until the midterm elections at this point that's not really the

[Congressman Mike Turner]

House has passed these provisions several times. All of which I have voted for.

[Margaret Brennan]

We notice that.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

I think the Senate does need to move these provisions.

[Margaret Brennan]

But did you vote for it knowing that the Senate doesn't have the votes to actually make it become law? Vote yes. Hope no.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

I think the president is certainly making a very good case as to how these provisions need be to become law. And I think that they are ones that will ensure for the American public integrity in voting.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well non citizens can't vote in federal elections. That became law in 1990.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

The concern is how do you ensure that that's going which each state does occurring and we need to make certain that we ensure that that occurs at the state level.

[Margaret Brennan]

I'll let you go on that.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

But having identification should be at least the way to ensure someone that we know who's voting. How do we have I mean there's

[Margaret Brennan]

so many things

[Congressman Mike Turner]

how do you let someone vote and not even have an identification? I can't understand how anyone would be opposed to that. And this is one of those things where it's off the charts. The American public believe that people should have identification to vote. This should pass.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah. And that's often required when you register. Very quickly. Do you know what the plan is to deal with the Haitians who are having their temporary protected status revoked in in Springfield, Ohio.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

So as of Friday there's been a short term extension because of the 24th of July two weeks. You know the Mark Ray Mullen secretary has said that those individuals who are working that they should look to as manner in which they might be able to be included in other processes because you know they're contributing to society. Certainly you know our Governor Mike DeWine and myself and others who have individuals in our community who are going to be affected are certainly advocates for these individuals to be able to stay in our communities who are working and contributing. They're valuable people in our community.

[Margaret Brennan]

And you voted for Congress to extend the leadership.

[Congressman Mike Turner]

We certainly hope that they can that they can stay and be able to contribute to our communities.

[Margaret Brennan]

We're going to continue to track that and whether they have that hope beyond the 24th of July. Congressman, thank you for your time. We'll be back in a moment. We go now to the former Commander of the U.S. central Command, retired General Frank McKenzie. General, welcome back. You know, I was just looking back at my last conversation on Face the Nation with Lindsey Graham, and the Senator said if this deal fails, President Trump is going to take the Strait of Hormuz over by force. The U.S. will control the Strait of Hormuz. That was three weeks ago. How does the United States end up controlling the Strait of Hormuz?

[General Frank McKenzie]

Well, Margaret, we certainly have the capability to control the Strait of Hormuz if the President chooses to follow that course of action. Look, what he's been trying to do is get to a diplomatic and a political solution here, which I applaud and I think we should all want to see as the final end state. Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is the Iranians generally only respond to military force and to extreme pressure. Look, we're not talking about regime change here. What we're talking about is modifying the views and actions of an extreme hard line regime that is possible. We have the capability to do that. That capability is resident in the US Military should the President elect to employ it. That would include opening the Strait of Hormuz, maintaining the Strait of Hormuz open, and in fact, seizing Cargill. And should we elect to do that, and I would just say as an aside, that's something we should think about doing because possession of Iranian soil would be a significant factor in future negotiations with Iran. So all those options are on the table. I'm not sure where we're going to go with this, but I do know we have these capabilities.

[Margaret Brennan]

We have those capabilities, but the President has made clear he kind of just wants a, he wants a deal here. How do you explain to the layperson when the President says we control the Strait of Hormuz, but then CENTCOM says military forces are positioned to implement, ensure freedom of navigation, which makes it sound, it isn't exactly free flowing traffic here.

[General Frank McKenzie]

No, it's not right now because we have not deployed all the capabilities that we have to open the strait. We certainly can do that. It would require putting warships up into narrow waters. Look, the US Navy doesn't love to do that, but they're very good at it. And if necessary, they can do it and they can do it. Well, you've got to go back to the Basic principle of Iranian statecraft, which is regime preservation. If you want to gain concessions from Iran, you have to directly pressure the regime, and you have to do so in a way that perhaps is existential to them. We have those capabilities should the President choose to go that way.

[Margaret Brennan]

Do those capabilities need to involve ground troops? And have you been at all surprised by the amount of pain that it appears the Iranian leadership is willing to take on here while turning down all the financial incentives the Trump administration is offering them?

[General Frank McKenzie]

Margaret, given the history of Iran and their negotiation posture, negotiating posture over many years, I'm not surprised at all by the current Iranian posture. A former CENTCOM commander once said, you know, Iran has never met a war they could win or a negotiation they could lose. And that's very true. What Iran wants to do is extend negotiations in time. Arguing about the size of the table, who's in the room, the font on the document, everything about except the core issues. We need to recognize that and we need to be prepared to pressure Iran to negotiate on the real germane issues. And by that I mean opening the Strait of Hormuz. Some movement on ballistic missiles, some movement on support for proxies. All those things are. We are capable of getting some form of movement on all those things. We just have to be willing to put pressure on Iran in order to achieve those goals.

[Margaret Brennan]

I mean, Jordan said overnight three missiles fell into their territory. There were no casualties, according to centcom. But they're firing off at Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman. They continue to be able to target American partners and places where American troops are. Does that surprise you?

[General Frank McKenzie]

It does not surprise me at all. What surprises me, actually is not surprises me, but what gratifies me is that Iranian attacks have not been larger or more capable. Many years ago, when we war game scenarios like this, we assumed the Iranian response would be more robust. The fact that it is not more robust is a testimony to Admiral Cooper and Central Command's ability to go after these targets and make it hard to. For Iran to fashion, you know, cohesive large strikes against our forces. Now, look, these strikes are going to continue. This is not a bloodless endeavor we're embarked upon. And bases are going to be hit and buildings are going to be destroyed, and tragically, people are going to die. And if we're going to stay in this game and continue to confront Iran, which I believe is in our interest to do, we've got to be prepared for this.

[Margaret Brennan]

Quickly, your thoughts on Senator Graham.

[General Frank McKenzie]

Senator Graham was a great representative of the state of South Carolina and our nation a great voice in the national security space and a particular friend to the Citadel, the Military College of South Carolina. Over many years, he's done a lot of great things for our school. In fact, he embodies the concept of the citizen soldier, the person who isn't a professional military officer, pursues a broad, deep, public, professional career, and yet dons the uniform and serves his nation. That's what we seek to produce at the Citadel. No better person to emulate than Lindsey Graham, and we will miss him dearly.

[Margaret Brennan]

General, thank you for your time. We'll be right back. Before we go this morning, a note on Senator Lindsey Graham, a fierce Ukraine supporter who had just returned from his 10th trip to that war zone at what was a key moment for one of his proudest accomplishments. I spoke twice by phone on Friday with Senator Graham while he was in, and he told me it was a big day. He was excited to share the news that the Trump White House had finally given him the green light for Congress to move his long sought bill to put significant financial penalties on the biggest buyers of Russian oil. He had just met with President Zelensky and said that while he didn't want to get ahead of Trump, he believed that the US President now sees the Ukrainian leader as more of a winner. Now, Graham wanted me to know that Senator Blumenthal, his Democratic colleague who he had partnered with on the bill, deserves a lot of credit. It was a rare act of bipartisanship in a hyper partisan time, and it had shades of the type of across the aisle work he and Senator John McCain used to broker with another Connecticut senator, Joe Lieberman. It was almost exactly one year ago to the day that Graham and Blumenthal had joined us on Face the Nation to talk to about their bipartisan effort to pressure Russia through sanctions and tariffs on buyers of their oil.

[Rahm Emanuel]

We're going after the people who keep Putin in business. And additional sanctions on Russia itself. This is truly a sledgehammer available to President Trump to end this war.

[Margaret Brennan]

Following Graham's passing, it falls to Republican leaders in Congress to make the decision on whether to take it up. Graham had just appeared with us three weeks ago to push another big goal. Turn the morass of the Iran war into an opportunity for normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel and a brighter future for Palestinians. He'd worked with then President Biden to try to get that done, but the work was stymied by the horrific attack of October 7th. That unfinished business also now lays waiting. That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week for Face the Nation. Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager Laird. The executive producer is Anne Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelly Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more Face the Nation, we're [e-mail] and on YouTube. Face the Nation is also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24. 7 streaming network at 12:30 on Sundays. It's available through our Paramount plus app. Hey, gang. It's Jill Schlesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves. And we are gonna move. We are gonna answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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