USTR Jamieson Greer, Panel with Rep. Tom Suozzi and Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick, Taiwanese Representative to the US Alexander Yui

Summary

Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan | Episode Summary — May 17, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Margaret Brennan interviews key policy players and elected officials to unpack recent political developments in US foreign policy and domestic affairs. With a heightened focus on President Trump's recent trip to China, the ongoing inflationary struggles in the American economy, and bipartisan gridlock in Congress, guests include United States Trade Representative Jamison Greer, Taiwan’s US Representative Alexander Yu, Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick and Tom Suozzi of the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and CBS elections analyst Anthony Salvanto. Discussion themes range from US-China relations and trade, arms sales to Taiwan, inflation and affordability, political polarization, to US strategy on Iran.

---

Key Segments and Major Discussion Points

1. The State of the Economy & Public Sentiment ([00:49]–[03:40], [21:18]–[23:42])

Main Points:

• Inflation and gas prices continue to strain American families. Gas averages $4.51/gallon, costing Americans $45 billion more than a year ago.
• The CBS News poll reflects widespread frustration: 7 in 10 Americans are frustrated or angry with the administration’s economic approach; only 27% approve of Trump’s handling of inflation—a historic low.
• Americans, especially those earning under $125,000, are cutting back on spending.

Notable Quote:

• Anthony Salvanto ([21:18]): “I always start with feelings because they’re so closely connected to people’s finances. They tell us they feel stressed, they feel concerned about their personal finances. And...uncertainty is a top way that people describe the overall economy.”

---

2. US-China Relations: Trade, Tariffs, Agricultural and Industrial Deals

Interview with Jamison Greer – USTR
([03:40]–[12:54])

Key Discussion Points:

• Formalizing Economic Relations:

  • Introduction of a new "Board of Trade" and "Board of Investment" between US and China, shifting from ad hoc to ongoing dialogue.
  • Focus on non-sensitive goods (agriculture, consumer goods) for trade; sensitive (i.e. dual-use, military-related) remain restricted.

• Tariffs:

  • US retains right to raise tariffs per previous deals; pending investigations could lead to new tariffs under Section 301.
  • Post-Supreme Court ruling, tariff policy remains under review—Greer avoids specifics until investigations conclude.

• Deliverables & Criticism:

  • Claims of Chinese commitments to purchase US Boeing aircraft and agricultural goods, but Chinese statements remain vague.
  • Addressing skepticism that these are recycled deals: Greer asserts there’s growth in “double digit purchases of aggregate agricultural products," promising soon-to-be-released fact sheets.

Notable Quotes:

• Jameson Greer ([04:12]): “No one wants to see higher gas prices...the president is balancing foreign policy considerations...we look forward to seeing those prices come down soon as the operations wrap up in the Gulf.”
• Jameson Greer ([06:19]): “We have never had a Board of Trade or a Board of Investment before…It’s much better to discuss these in a formalized way between our government and their government.”
• Jameson Greer ([10:51]): “We have the existing soybean deal…then over on top of that we have these agricultural [product deals] as well. And all of that will be facilitated by board of trade discussions with the Chinese.”

---

3. Taiwan Relations and Cross-Strait Security

Interview with Ambassador Alexander Yu
([12:54]–[20:38])

Key Discussion Points:

• No confirmed US-Taiwan leader call since 1979; Trump “may” speak to President Lai, but no specifics.
• Taiwan seeks to tell its own story, not just Beijing’s, emphasizing longstanding resistance to PRC aggression.
• On "independence": Yu clarifies Taiwan views itself as sovereign—its "independence" is from Beijing’s control, not a recent separatism.
• Stresses need for defensive arms sales—delays in US delivery are a risk, particularly as Trump signals using weapons sales as a bargaining chip with China.
• The “six assurances” and the Taiwan Relations Act obligate continued US arms provision; Yu insists this is key for deterrence and peace.

Notable Quotes:

• Alexander Yu ([13:30]): “He [Trump] heard only their side of the story...If he has time, we’d love to tell him our side of the story, the Taiwan story, which is one of resiliency, of staying up against Chinese aggression.”
• Alexander Yu ([16:38]): “It’s like our house. There’s intruders trying to get into our house. We’re trying to beef up our security system, and then they complain. The intruder complains that because we’re trying to improve our security system, it’s making his job harder.”
• Alexander Yu ([18:24]): “If we want to prevent a war...it’s best that Taiwan is strong, able to defend itself...So actually it makes more sense for the United States to sell us the arms so we can defend ourselves. So you don’t have to send your army 9,500 miles away.”

---

4. Congressional Dysfunction: Redistricting, Primaries, and Bipartisanship

Panel with Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick (R) and Tom Suozzi (D)
([24:20]–[35:29])

Key Discussion Points:

• Widespread gerrymandering and closed primaries fuel polarization and gridlock.
  • Fitzpatrick: Only 7 states use independent redistricting; closed primaries exclude independents from many elections.
  • Suozzi: Safe seats empower extreme voices, penalize cross-party collaboration, and undermine national unity.
• Both argue genuine constituent-focused representation requires politicians to compete for votes across the political spectrum.
• Affordability is the dominant voter concern; neither party has a convincing solution, but bipartisan steps are possible.
• On proposed federal gas tax holiday: Both cautious; Fitzpatrick worries about highway fund impacts, Suozzi sees need for deeper solutions.
• Ukraine Aid: Fitzpatrick vows continued support and a push for the Senate to pass aid and sanctions.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian Fitzpatrick ([25:08]): “Gerrymandering is one of the most, if not the most, corrosive things to our democracy…only seven states…have independent citizen commissions.”
• Tom Suozzi ([26:45]): “So, you know, we’re in this battle right now—this race to the bottom...It’s bad for America to have all these safe seats where no politician is incentivized to listen to people and to reach across the aisle.”
• Brian Fitzpatrick ([28:24]): “If you’re a registered independent, you are excluded from voting in 50% of elections…That is insane. Closed primaries coupled with gerrymandering…are really, really hurting our country.”
• Tom Suozzi ([31:36]): “Affordability is the number one issue in America. We’ve got to get back to those basic fundamental messages. Enough with the finger pointing and the culture wars. Let’s focus on the economics of people’s lives.”

---

5. National Security: Taiwan, Iran, and Pentagon Shake-up

Interview with Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates
([36:26]–[46:16])

Key Discussion Points:

• US strategy towards Taiwan:
  • Gates urges maintaining longstanding “strategic ambiguity.”
  • US should deliver on arms sales commitments; warns of slow-moving deliveries and growing backlogs.
  • Little likelihood of immediate Chinese invasion; “anaconda strategy”—quarantine or blockade—is a preferred PRC option.
• Iran Conflict:
  • Goal must be removing nuclear capability through negotiation; military strikes only “buy time.”
  • The US cannot disengage and leave it to Israel.
  • US objectives include degrading Iran’s military and regional proxies.
• Pentagon Leadership Overhaul:
  • Gates concerned by multiple high-level military firings without clear public explanation; transparency to Congress and public is essential.

Notable Quotes:

• Robert Gates ([36:39]): “I think it would be a mistake to change the carefully worded position of the United States with respect to Taiwan.”
• Robert Gates ([38:00]): “I think we should go forward with what we’ve agreed with Taiwan. But is that just going to be added to the backlog, or is there a way forward in terms of actually getting these weapons to the Taiwanese?”
• Robert Gates ([39:34]): “I think the chances of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan are pretty low...What the Taiwanese call an anaconda strategy—it would strangle Taiwan over time.”
• Robert Gates ([41:18]): “The only way...to get the enriched uranium out of Iran and bring about an end to their nuclear aspirations is through a negotiation.”
• Robert Gates ([45:40]): “It concerns me [the Pentagon purge], but...there may be perfectly justifiable reasons, but I just don’t know what they are.”

---

Memorable Moments and Quotes

• Jamison Greer ([07:06]): “The Chinese know, and that’s part of our deal, that the United States can, can elevate tariffs...We are able to elevate that again.”
• Alexander Yu ([15:16]): "My president just made a statement...It means that Taiwan is independent from...the prc. Actually, the formal name of my country is Republic of China and we're not subordinate to the People’s Republic of China in any way at all. That is what is meant by independence."
• Brian Fitzpatrick ([33:48]): “Half of Americans are stressing over their family budgets, and that’s got to drive the legislative agenda.”
• Robert Gates ([42:46]): “One is to eliminate Iran’s ability to have a nuclear weapon. Another is to eliminate their military capabilities to attack their neighbors. Third is to eliminate the capability to support their surrogates, the Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis…”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:40] — Jamison Greer on inflation and US-China trade talks
• [12:54] — Alexander Yu (Taiwan) on cross-strait security and US arms sales
• [21:18] — Anthony Salvanto on CBS polling and economic sentiment
• [24:20] — Brian Fitzpatrick and Tom Suozzi discuss redistricting, bipartisanship, affordability
• [35:29] — Fitzpatrick on Ukraine aid vote
• [36:26] — Robert Gates on US stance toward Taiwan, Iran, and Pentagon shake-up

---

Tone and Language

Throughout the episode, the tone remains urgent and pragmatic, reflecting the seriousness of current economic and security challenges while highlighting a bipartisan desire for practical solutions. Guests are candid, often emphasizing the need for transparency and cross-aisle cooperation.

---

Summary Takeaways

• The administration is under intense scrutiny for its handling of inflation and economic anxiety.
• US-China relations are being formalized with new institutional tools, but skepticism over concrete deliverables remains.
• Taiwan remains a geopolitical flashpoint, with ambiguous US commitments and concerns over adequate defensive support.
• Political gridlock, fueled by gerrymandering and closed primaries, stifles problem-solving in Congress—even as some members push for reform.
• On defense and foreign policy, the US faces difficult decisions balancing deterrence, credibility, and transparency, especially as Pentagon leadership undergoes tumultuous change.

This episode offers a multifaceted snapshot of American policy and political culture at a moment of profound international and domestic uncertainty.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. They make it super simple. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with coverage options tailored to your choices. Plus you'll see which discounts you may qualify for, like the online quote discount or savings for paying in full. In fact, 99% of Progressive Auto customers earn at least one discount. See if you could save when you switch to Progressive. You'll feel good about making a savvy choice. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little extra cash back Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Margaret Brennan]

I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington and this week on Face the Nation. Back in the US Following a whirlwind diplomatic mission to China, President Trump faces backlash comes to inflation and the economy. While the reviews for the President's trip to China and details about the deliverables from the meeting of the world's two biggest economic superpowers are still coming in, it's Mr. Trump's efforts on the domestic economy and inflation that are getting panned at home. Asked about the extent to which Americans financial situations were motivating his Iran dealmaking, the response didn't do much to reassure

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

them, not even a little bit.

[Donald Trump]

I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about any.

[Tom Suozzi]

But I think about one thing.

[Robert Gates]

You cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon.

[Margaret Brennan]

Those remarks, plus new numbers showing the fastest increase in the inflation rate in three years have Republicans increasingly concerned about the party's chances in the midterm election. We'll hear from the President's top trade representative Jamison Greer, plus Taiwan's representative to the US as well as the heads of the bipartisan Problem Solver Caucus. In the House, Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick and New York Democrat Tom Suozzi. Plus former Defense Secretary Robert Gates will also be with us. It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. Good morning and welcome to Face President Trump's grip on his party has tightened with Saturday's defeat of Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy in a three way Republican primary. Cassidy voted to impeach Mr. Trump after the January 6th attack on the US Capitol. And as a doctor, Cassidy has been outspoken about some of the administration's health policies. In turn, Trump endorsed one of his opponents and has been openly critical of Cassidy. There will now be a runoff for a seat that is a safe Republican one. But this is a midterm year when a president's record is a top factor nationally. Our CBS News poll out this Morning says that 7 in 10Americans say they are frustrated or even angry with the administration's approach to the economy. Two thirds say Trump's policies are making the economy worse, at least in the short term. And only 27% say they approve of his handling of inflation. That marks a new low for the president in our CBS News polling. We begin this morning with a top member of the president's economic team, United States Trade Representative Jameson Greer. Good morning to you.

[Jameson Greer]

Ambassador, good morning. Good to be here.

[Margaret Brennan]

It isn't just a matter of sentiment. Gas is at an average of $4.51 a gallon. Americans have spent four $45 billion more on fuel since the war began versus a year ago. The stock market's up, but lower income Americans are pulling back on their spending. The New York Fed reports households earning less than 125,000 a year are fueling up their cars less often. How do you provide relief to the average American?

[Jameson Greer]

Well, we know that no one wants to see higher gas prices at the same time, the president is balancing foreign policy considerations. We know that in addition to wanting to have low gas prices, we don't want our children or grandchildren to inherit a world where Iran has a nuclear weapon. So the president is focused on affordability in as many ways that he can. He's bringing jobs back to America. We're focused on getting wages up to offset any kind of increase in prices. And we're seeing prices go down for staples like dairy, cheese, flour, etc. So we're very focused on this. The president's focused on it, and we look forward to seeing those prices come down soon as the operations wrap up in the Gulf.

[Margaret Brennan]

But we have no timeframe for that at this point. Let me ask you about what you were just working on in Asia. China said it agreed with the United States to establish a board of investment to consider Chinese investment here in the US and to establish bilateral boards of trade to discuss tariffs. Which products are going to be affected by that board? Are these items outside the current investigations that you are conducting?

[Jameson Greer]

So when we think about the board of Trade, we're thinking about how to manage economic relations between the US And China. These are two economies that are quite different. And we're focused on trade in non sensitive Goods. When you talk about sensitive goods, you know, the most high tech stuff, you know, things that can be used for military uses, those are things that, those are national security issues. So we're looking to discuss things like sales of agricultural goods to China, energy goods, Boeing's medical devices. When we talk about the kinds of things we want to be importing from China, there are a number of things. There can be consumer goods, maybe low tech items. And so we look at those types of areas where we should be trading. On the investment side, the Board of Investment is really about discussing key issues in US China investment policy. It's not really an investment program, but it's to try to almost be like a firefighter and put out issues when they arise between the two countries.

[Margaret Brennan]

So really this just seems a message of stability. Because you were already discussing a lot of these things on a bilateral basis, right? I mean, what's new?

[Jameson Greer]

So we have never had a Board of Trade or a Board of Investment before. We've always had an ad hoc approach with China and the United States, which I think is actually challenging. I think it's more important to formalize these relations. The United States has a host of, you know, tariffs, import controls, export controls on China. China has a number of non tariff barriers that have been in place for a long time, you know, other challenges they impose to block our imports and things like that. It's much better to discuss these in a formalized way between our government and their government. In addition to this, we saw China over the past couple of days reduce a host of non tariff barriers on agricultural products such as beef and poultry, etc. And so we've seen them already starting to, to do things to facilitate imports from the United States.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, I'll come back to some of those in a moment, but I want to ask you about tariffs. The President said to reporters he did not discuss tariffs with Xi Jinping at all. Are we in an indefinite trade truce or are you looking at bringing that tariff rate back to where it was before the Supreme Court ruling?

[Jameson Greer]

Well, the Chinese know, and that's part of our deal that the United States can, can elevate tariffs to, to the higher level that we had at the time of what we call the Busan deal. In October, when President Xi and President Trump met following the Supreme Court case In February, about 10 percentage points were knocked off the tariff rate for China. We believe under our deal that we are able to elevate that again. The President is exploring different tools that he has. I don't want to prejudge a lot of the investigations that are happening, the Chinese know, just like many other countries we're dealing with, that we're going to have a certain level of tariff to control our imports, but that we also expect market opening.

[Margaret Brennan]

Okay, but the last time you were here after that Supreme Court decision, you said that when some of these tariffs expire in July, that you would expect to roll out new tariffs after the end of these investigations under authority 301. So are you saying now that you no longer expect tariffs to come into place after July?

[Jameson Greer]

Well, I think I was careful to tell you because my general counsel always tells me to say this. I can't prejudge the outcomes of those investigations. Those investigations, if they find on tariff barriers or unfair trading practices, they can authorize the President to take actions like tariffs, like fees on services, like quotas, things like that. So we'll certainly be presenting the President with those options if those investigations show what we think they might show, which is that there's a huge problem with overcapacity in China and other countries. So we'll, we'll get back to you on the findings in those investigations when they conclude.

[Margaret Brennan]

Okay. We did see China on Saturday release a statement confirming some of the deals with the US but it was pretty vague. There was no mention of the promise to buy 750 Boeing planes that President Trump told reporters about if the first 200 go. Well, China said there was a guarantee by the US to supply aircraft engines, but it didn't mention the 400 and 450 GE engines that the President announced. GE hasn't commented either. So how locked in are these agreements?

[Jameson Greer]

So the 200 Boeings, those are locked in. There's obviously a future to have more Boeings. The reality is this is the first major purchase by China in almost 10 years of Boeings or orders rather. So that's going forward. And like the President said, you know, when and if Boeing delivers, there's a lot of upside there. With respect to some of the other details, we're finalizing a fact sheet that will hopefully get out very soon so we can be clearer about the double digit increase in agricultural purchases we expect from the Chinese and some of the other things that happened and were agreed to during the visit.

[Margaret Brennan]

Okay. And I know GE is meeting with China today, but we haven't seen anything from them on the aircraft engines, on the ag products. The conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board questioned whether the summit achieved any of the stated wins because of how vague these things have been. They said Mr. Trump boasted about fantastic Chinese purchases of US soybeans and aircraft. But China didn't confirm the sales. And by our count, this is the second time China has bought the same American soybeans. Or is it the third? They're kind of arguing you're playing a shell game here with like re announcing past deals on past agreements to purchase over a period of time. Can you answer these conservative skeptics with any specifics?

[Jameson Greer]

So first of all, we've had a deal in place with the Chinese since October that they would buy 25 million metric tons of soybeans each year for the rest of the President's administration. So that deal is still in force. What we expect with the new purchase agreements where the specific number will be announced very soon, Double digit purchases of aggregate agricultural products. When I say aggregate, I mean everything else. That could be soybeans, that could be beef, that could be grains, that could be dairy products, all kinds of things. So we have the existing soybean deal that they may be referring to and then over on top of that we have these agricultural products as well. And all of that will be facilitated by board of trade discussions with the Chinese.

[Margaret Brennan]

So still not nailed down, just an aggregate agreement. So how many concessions did the US make? What were those concessions in order to get this?

[Jameson Greer]

Well, one thing, there are balanced trades here, right? We're trying to get to balanced trade with the Chinese. For a long time it's been out of whack. So when you see something like what the Chinese said, which I can confirm about a sale of Boeings accompanied by a sale of aircraft and auto parts and spare auto parts, aircraft parts and those kinds of things, the Chinese want to make sure that they have regular access to these kind of spare items so they can continue to fly their fleets. So that's something we want to do. We are focused on mutually beneficial trade. So when you're talking about that kind of thing, what we should be exporting, what we should be importing, becomes less a question of concessions and more a question of what's mutually beneficial for both of us. That's why we're so focused on non sensitive trade, because that doesn't, that doesn't require concessions. That's about working together, talking about what they need, what we want to sell, what we need from them. So we're already seeing it as they've re registered beef facilities, where beef facilities expired, they're taking poultry again. They're working with us on biotech traits to make sure that, you know, those types of products that have genetic modification can go into China without any problem.

[Margaret Brennan]

China still sells more to the US than it buys, but that difference has decreased by about 3, 31.5%. So thank you, Ambassador. We turn now to Ambassador Alexander Yu, Taiwan's representative to the United States. Ambassador, good to have you here in person. There hasn't been a call between an American president and a leader of Taiwan since 1979, but President Trump indicated to reporters there might be one coming. Is there a call plan with President Lai?

[Jameson Greer]

Well,

[Alexander Yu]

we'll see. But President Trump, when he was in Beijing for the last, well, two days, he mentioned that he heard a lot about Taiwan. You know, he heard a lot about Taiwan these two days in Beijing. But the problem is he heard only their side of the story. You know, he heard the Chinese story, or as I would say in Spanish, el cuento chino. I think if he has time, we love to tell him our side of the story, the Taiwan story, which is one that of resiliency, of staying up against the Chinese aggression. This has been going on for 77 years. This is not something that just happened when the dpp, the current ruling party in Taiwan, came to power. This has been going on for 77 years, since the inception of 1949 when they became a people's Republic. So this is not a recent thing, as if we are the ones creating problems. They say it's China, People's Republic of China, creating all this problem.

[Margaret Brennan]

So people are scheduled yet?

[Alexander Yu]

Well, the communication between Taiwan and us is constant, is current, but I'll leave it to the US to announce anything if it happens.

[Margaret Brennan]

It would be a big deal. He did speak to a past president as president elect.

[Alexander Yu]

Yes, with President tsai. Yeah, in 2015. 16.

[Margaret Brennan]

That's right. So China refers to your president as a separatist in part because Lai has talked about being a, quote, practical worker for Taiwan independence. In an interview with Fox News, President Trump said he's not looking to have somebody say, let's go be independent because the United States is backing us. Does Taiwan have any intention of declaring independence formally from China?

[Alexander Yu]

Well, let me first say that President Trump and Secretary Rubio have been very categorical during their visit to Beijing, publicly stating that there's no change. United States long standing position in Taiwan, which we want to express our appreciation for upholding this position. What is meant by Taiwan independence? My president just made a statement recently, just now, and it means that Taiwan is independent from the Chinese aggression from the prc. Actually, the formal name of my country is Republic of China and we're not subordinate to the people of Republic of China in any way at all. And that's maintaining our sovereignty, our way of life, our democracy, our vibrant economy, our high tech production. And that is what is mean by independence. We are sovereign, independent, away from the Chinese People's Republic of China's attempt to swallow us as one of their own. They have never ruled or controlled Taiwan, ever.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah.

[Alexander Yu]

So that is meant by independence.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, President Trump, though, said he wants Taiwan to cool it. He also wanted China to cool it. That seems to indicate that perhaps he was listening to Xi Jinping's version of events and might have been persuaded.

[Alexander Yu]

Well, that's why we've loved to, given our part of the story, not just listen to Cuentos Chinos. But I think that's a statement of saying he wants status quo. President wants status quo. President Trump. That he wants no change in the Taiwan Straits, neither through economic or military coercion, and that the peace stability of the Taiwan Straits is good for all parties concerned. And that's the position that Secretary Rubio mentioned during his interview. And that's the one that we also long for. We have been a responsible member of Taiwan Straits. We want to strive for peace, stability. President Trump doesn't want a war 9,500 miles away. We don't want a war. We want peace and stability. We want to have our lives going on as usual, but we're not the ones creating all this trouble. And that's why it's like our house. There's intruders trying to get into our house. We're trying to beef up our security system, and then they complain. The intruder complains that because we're trying to improve our security system, it's making his job harder.

[Margaret Brennan]

Right. No, I hear your point. And on paper, President Trump's administration has pledged near record amounts of defensive weapons and sales to Taiwan. But the deliveries haven't really been happening. And in Beijing, President Trump told Fox he's going to hold on to the latest weapons sale that Taiwan sought to purchase this year and use it as a negotiating chip with China. What impact will that have on your ability to deter China if you don't get those weapons?

[Alexander Yu]

Well, exactly. If we want to prevent a war from happening, I think it's best that Taiwan is strong, able to defend itself, and therefore we should be able to acquire, to buy the arms that we need to have a stronger defense. You know, we also believe in peace through strength.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah.

[Alexander Yu]

So actually it makes more sense for the United States to sell us the arm so we can defend ourselves. So you don't have to send your army 9,500 miles away to defend us.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, the so called six assurances that the United States gave to Taiwan back in the Reagan area included a pledge not to cut off arms sales to Taiwan and of no prior consultation with Beijing on such sales. But this is what the president told reporters about his discussion with Xi. Take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

So what am I going to do? Say I don't want to talk to you about it because I have an agreement that was signed in 1982. No, we discussed arms sales to. And what's his request? We discussed in Taiwan, you know, the whole thing with the arms sales. It was in great detail, actually.

[Margaret Brennan]

And I'll be making decisions in great detail. Did that violate America's commitment to Taiwan?

[Alexander Yu]

Well, again, but President Trump has also been very clear saying that he did not agree on anything, that he did

[Margaret Brennan]

not hold on to those weapons.

[Alexander Yu]

Yeah, but he didn't say he agreed to anything. So again, the United States government has been consistent throughout all administrations since 1979 in providing arms to Taiwan according to the Taiwan Relations act, which is selling ours commensurate to the threat that Taiwan receives. And past administrations, including President Trump's first term, made considerable amounts of sale, including the F16 Glock 70s. And also in his second administration last year, he made two sales to Taiwan also, again, the last one, also a very considerable amount of money on arms sales. So we believe again that having arms sales continue to Taiwan is in the interest of United States and Taiwan to keep a peaceful and stable Taiwan straits.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, we will try to ask the administration for updates on when those deliveries might happen. But thank you very much. Ambassador Faisonation will be back in a minute. Stay with us. And now with more from our news CBS News poll, President Trump's approval rating has now dropped to the lowest level of his second term at 37%. And views of the economy have dropped to their lowest level in several years. Only 29% now say the economy is good. Joining us now with more is our Executive Director of Elections and Surveys, Anthony Salvanto. Anthony, good to have you here. Gas is $4.51 and change per gallon. Is this pressure all due to gas prices?

[Anthony Salvanto]

Gas prices aren't helping. It's not the only thing. I always start with feelings because they're so closely connected to people's finances. They tell us they feel stressed, they feel concerned about their personal finances. And feelings of economic security are down from a year ago. Now gas prices are increasingly, they tell us, weighing being a financial hardship on them. Overall Though they continue to tell us they don't think their income is keeping pace with inflation. And that's something we've been seeing now for years coming out of the pandemic. So contextually, yes, it's part of something larger. The other part of this, though, is uncertainty, which is a top way that people describe the overall economy and the way that relates to gas prices is take, for example, just the situation in Iran in the Strait of Hormuz. People tell us day to day they don't feel like they have a clear understanding. They're getting a clear understanding of what's going on there. And of course, that is impacting gas prices. That's part of what I mean by uncertainty. But the other part of the big picture here, you pull back, you look at the job market. People aren't confident that if they had to find another job, they could. They even think. You hear so much about AI in the news, structural changes, big structural changes. They think AI is going to start taking jobs and what it leads to. When you look at opportunity, even generational opportunity, there's a lower number who think that their opportunities are gonna be better than their parents were.

[Margaret Brennan]

How big a risk is the inflation problem, or at least the price of living? Right. Is it gonna hurt Republicans?

[Anthony Salvanto]

So the administration, of course, urges patience. Right. Once the war is resolved, et cetera. Well, so I tested. What do you think the president's policies are doing to the economy in the short term and the long term, in. In the short term, you get big numbers who say they're making the economy worse. So that's what's right in front of folks. But there also isn't that much more optimism about what happens for the long term. Part of all this uncertainty is that neither of the parties, not the Democrats, not the Republicans, are net positive on being seen as having policies that help cost of living. So you look at the public and, yeah, okay, Democrats have a little bit of an edge there, but it's still net negative. And so people are going in the midterms, maybe not feeling like there is help out there.

[Margaret Brennan]

Anthony Salvanto, always good to talk to you.

[Robert Gates]

Thanks.

[Margaret Brennan]

We'll be right back on my new

[Maury Povich]

podcast on Par with Maury Povich. We're getting down to the truth behind the names that you know and love. Unfiltered conversations with legends like Leanne Morgan, Kathy Griffin, Ricki Lake to find out when they feel the most on par. We're breaking it down with Don Lemon, Aaron Parnas, Lamani Jones, laughing it up with Josh Johnson. Dan soder, many more. You know, the results are in. Great conversations are always on par. So follow and listen to on par wherever you get your podcasts.

[Margaret Brennan]

Welcome back to FACE THE nation. And the co chairs of the bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus, Republican Brian Fitzpatrick joins us from Langhorne, Pennsylvania. Democrat Tom Suozzi from Queens, New York. Good morning to you both, gentlemen.

[Tom Suozzi]

Good morning.

[Margaret Brennan]

I want to start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick. You know, CBS estimates that the net impact of all this redistricting is that Republicans are going to get roughly nine seats or get them nine seats closer, I should say, to keeping control of the House. I mean, presumably that's the outcome the president was looking for here. Why are you concerned that, you know, driving towards the majority through these methods is actually a negative for your party?

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

It's a terrible thing for our country, Margaret. Gerrymandering is one of the most, if not the most corrosive things to our democracy than I can imagine, Tom. And I completely agree with it. Our entire bipartisan problem, sovereign caucus agrees to it. We met this past week to start taking measurable steps to fight back. Because, you know, part of the challenge, Margaret, is, you know, much like how elections are conducted, these district lines, it's largely a function of state government and state legislative action. The only jurisdictional hook we have on the federal system is funding. So particularly the Help America Vote act, the so called HAVA funding that passed after the Bush v. Gore hanging chad election. You know, we can tie that money. It's billions of dollars that gets sent to the states to carry out their elections. We can tie that funding to certain reforms. And one of the things that has to happen, only seven states, by the way, do this in America is have independent citizen commissions with computer generated line drawing assisting them to make sure that we have more balanced districts in this country.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, I understand the effort and the intent. But Congressman Suozzi, your party's leaders also gerrymandering and your group, as we just heard from Congressman Fitzpatrick, you're supporting efforts to stop it. But it looks like your members are going to be directly impacted themselves. About 45 members of your caucus may face redistricting. You've said it's going to kill the country. I mean, how does it actually kill the ability to reach across the aisle like you gentlemen are doing?

[Tom Suozzi]

What happens is when you create these safe seats through gerrymandering is that the only elections that matter are not the general election, but the primary. So everybody panders to their base. The Republicans talk to their base. The Democrats talk to their base instead of talking to all of their constituents about what they care about. And there's a lot of pandering that goes on. So, you know, we're in this battle right now, this race to the bottom and we're going to fight fire with fire. The Democrats are going to fight the Republicans, the Republicans are going to fight the Democrats. It's bad for America. It's bad for America to have all these safe seats where no politician is incentivized to listen to people and to reach across the aisle.

[Margaret Brennan]

So I misspoke. It's 45 members in your caucus, more than a dozen of them may be directly impacted. But still, I take your broader point here that it's damaging to the ability to work cross aisle. But I want to ask you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, from the Republican perspective, we just saw what happened overnight down in Louisiana where Senator Bill Katz capacity lost in this three way primary. The President himself, the leader of your party, who wanted this redistricting has also been directly involved in some of these primary races picking candidates. He came out hard against Cassidy. He's also now focusing in on Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky who has taken votes in opposition to the President, including for the release of the Epstein files. I mean, is the message here for Republicans that if you dissent from the President, he's going to take you down?

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Well, it's one of the many reasons, Margaret, why we need to open primaries up in all 50 states. Another cause that Tom and I are behind. Over half the states in this country have closed primaries, meaning that if you're a registered independent, you are excluded from voting in 50% elections. And let's just put this in a context. You could be a 98 year old World War II veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy, saved civilization, who registers independent in the land of independence which we're celebrating 250 years of. And in half of the states of this country, including unfortunately our home state here in Pennsylvania, if you register independent, you're told you're not welcome to vote in half of elections. That is insane. And not only is it an injustice, Margaret, it has a terrible corrosive effect on the floor of the House. Tom and I see it all the time. We call it the vote no hope, yes crowd. They go to the House floor wanting to support a policy, knowing that policy is the right thing to do. But because they live in a closed primary state and 18% of Americans, 18% of Americans vote in primaries, they're going to the House floor thinking about 18% of their electorate instead of 100% of their electorate. So closed primaries coupled with gerrymandering. Your previous question. Are really, really hurting our country. They're causing gridlock on the House floor.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah. It would seem, though, that you are really swimming against the tide here. Both of you gentlemen, I want to ask you, Congressman Suozzi, about your.

[Tom Suozzi]

Margaret, can I just make one quick.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah, sure. I was gonna ask you about your race, but go ahead.

[Tom Suozzi]

Let me just make a quick point. I'm in a district that Donald Trump won by 19,000 votes.

[Margaret Brennan]

Yeah.

[Tom Suozzi]

Brian's in the. And I'm a Democrat. Brian's in the district as a Republican that Kamala Harris won. For me to win my race, I have to listen to everybody. I need the large majority of Democrats to vote for me. I need the majority of independents to vote for me. I even need a few Republicans to listen to vote for me. So I've got to listen to everybody. And that's what's good for America, is when their elected officials have to listen to their people. When you do all this gerrymandering and create all these safe seats, the politicians in the safe seats, most of the elected officials in Congress right now only have to win their primary because they're guaranteed the Republicans are going to win the Republican seat, the Democrats can win the Democratic seat, and then they only listen to their base, and they pander to their base. That's contributing to the division of our country, along with social media, cable news, our foreign adversaries filling our social media feeds with a bunch of dreck.

[Margaret Brennan]

Not going to push back on you on those points here, sir, but back to the question I was going to ask you in regard to your race. I know that when it comes to people like you have to go out and persuade, you believe that Democrats can really make a case on the affordability argument. We've been talking about the polling that CBS has done showing how worrisome it is for the President's party, but it also shows neither Democrats nor Republicans own the message. It's pretty evenly split. 35% say Democrats would be better. It's 31% who think Trump and Republicans who would be 34%. Neither or not. Sure. No one's really convinced that either of the parties have an answer here. So how do you actually make that an edge?

[Tom Suozzi]

Yeah, there's no question that this is a major problem. Affordability is the number one issue in America. Your polling just shows that. And we see prices are going up like crazy. Why? Because of the tariffs, because of the war, because of the new Data centers and because of all the debt. And we have to propose policies that Democrats and Republicans will work together. You know, the tariff issue, the President's supposed to come to Congress, the war powers, the President's supposed to come to Congress. Let's work together to actually put solutions in place so we can get back to a place in America where everybody, whether you're a left wing progressive or a right wing conservative, you believe that in return for working hard, you make enough money so you can afford to buy a house, educate your kids, pay for health insurance and retire without being scared. We've got to get back to those basic fundamental messages. Enough with the finger pointing and the culture wars. Let's focus on the economics of people's lives so we can rebuild the middle class and help those folks that are aspiring to the middle class.

[Margaret Brennan]

But in some ways that polling. Congressman Fitzpatrick says people want something different from what they're hearing from both of the parties. They're not hearing new ideas. Go ahead.

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Yeah, over half of the people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. A lot of the things that are being discussed inside the state capitals across America, inside the US Capitol, is not laser focused on that all day, every day. You know, yes, we have to focus on national security, yes, we have to focus on foreign policy. We got to do it all. But we cannot ignore the fact that half of Americans are stressing over their family budgets, and that's got to drive the legislative agenda. I believe that it was that reason that, you know, President Trump won in 2024. I think that's why Zoram Mandami won in 2025. And I think both parties, Margaret, are failing to get that message that we have to focus like a laser on the economy, on these family budgets, and identify the silos. What's causing high energy costs, what's causing high childcare costs, what's causing high health care costs. Tom and I step forward through a discharge petition and pass the through the House. The premium tax credit extension. We're trying to do our part to cross the aisle, to work in the center, to focus on the issues that people really care about, which is the kitchen table issues.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, to that point, President Trump told my colleague Nancy Cordes that he endorsed a federal gas tax holiday. Believe it still would have to go before Congress. Would both of you gentlemen vote for that? Suspending it?

[Tom Suozzi]

I think, you know, we have to consider short term fix. It's going to affect the. Yeah, it's a short term fix. We really got to get to the president's got to come to Congress to discuss the war and how to, how to move forward to get out of, out of the war and to affect the gas prices. That's the real issue here. The tariffs are what are really affecting people's prices. Come to Congress. Work with Democrats and Republicans. Let's try and move our country forward.

[Margaret Brennan]

Congress.

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Yeah, my answer to that question. So we work with a lot with the labor unions. They've expressed some concerns about this federal gas tax holiday, that it might raid the Highway Transit Fund, which they rely on heavily for all the local infrastructure and national infrastructure projects for that matter. So I think the devil is in the detail when we say federal gas tax holiday. Where is that money coming from? That's really going to be the driving question. Yes, we want to do everything possible to lower gas prices, but we don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul. So we have to, we have to

[Margaret Brennan]

look at the details here quickly before I let you go. Congressman Fitzpatrick, you're a big supporter of Ukraine. You did get some additional support for additional assistance. When it comes to the House, this is like a vote on authorizing new security aid and imposing new sanctions on Russia. Even after the House votes hearing in the Senate from Leader Thune, he's got no time to take it up. What do you do next?

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

We're going to do everything we can, Margaret, to make sure they find time to take it up because the heroes that are on the front lines of the Ukrainian military in Kharkiv and everywhere else along the eastern coast of Ukraine need our help. They need the morale boost. I've been there on the front lines several times. I have pledged my unequivocal support for them. We reached 218 signatures, as you know, this week on a massive, massive discharge petition that is far greater than even just Russia sanctions. That's a big piece of it, but it's an overall aid package to Ukraine. So my message to our Ukrainian friends, help is on the way.

[Margaret Brennan]

All right, gentlemen, thank you for speaking to us in this bipartisan setting. Appreciate it. We'll be right back. On Friday, we traveled to William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia to speak with former Defense Secretary Robert Gates. And we began with that warning from President Xi that the issue of Taiwan could lead to an extremely dangerous situation if not managed carefully.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

The US still officially has this stance of strategic ambiguity. But do you think the tone needs to shift a little bit from the United States, given how strong the Chinese rhetoric is now?

[Robert Gates]

I think the Chinese rhetoric has often been strong in the past, when it comes to Taiwan, whenever we've made an arms sales to Taiwan in the past, the Bush administration, the Obama administration, and so on, the Chinese rhetoric gets very, very strong. So I think Xi was reiterating the Chinese position on that. I think it would be a mistake to change the carefully worded position of the United States with respect to Taiwan. Any change at all, the nuances. This is one of those things where the experts parse these things down to the tense of the verbs and so on. So I think. I think keeping things, the US Position as it has been was important. And I think everything I've read so far indicates that the President did that.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

So leave it open to question whether the US Would militarily come to the defense of Taiwan if China were to move on it. That needs to be an open question.

[Margaret Brennan]

Well, on paper, the President has made

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

significant pledges to Taiwan in terms of promised arms sales not delivered on yet. There's another 14 billion in proposed weapons sales that the Trump administration has delayed approving. Do you think the president should greenlight that?

[Robert Gates]

I think he should. I think we should go forward. With what? With what we've agreed with Taiwan. One of the concerns that I have is even with respect to previous arms sales, there is a huge backlog of weapons that we have sold to Taiwan that we have not been able to deliver because we don't have the supplies. And so if you're offering another 14 billion, is that just going to be added to the backlog or is there a way forward. Forward in terms of actually getting these weapons to the Taiwanese? I think one of the. An important thing that has happened in recent years is is getting the Taiwanese to focus on purchasing the kinds of weapons that would be necessary to defend themselves against a Chinese amphibious invasion. And the Taiwanese legislature has just finally reached an agreement to fund the purchase of these weapons. So I think we should go forward with it. It is, in our own way, our counter to President Xi's strong statement. Yes, you have your position, we have ours.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

Secretary Rubio did tell another network, though, that his belief is that China's preference is to have Taiwan willingly join the People's Republic. Do you expect that to be the more likely scenario? That there is sort of a slow strangulation of Taiwanese democracy by the Communist Party?

[Robert Gates]

I think the chances of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan are pretty low, particularly over the next several years, and partly because Xi has other other options open to him that include that involve far less risk. So they have surrounded Taiwan with ships and in the air, they have shown their ability to close off maritime and air access to the island. They could create a blockade or a quarantine around Taiwan anytime they want. What the Taiwanese call an anaconda strategy. And it would strangle Taiwan over time. I don't think they want to go in and attack Taiwan. They don't want to destroy the very chip factories they want to take over. So. And then there's cyber. There are all kinds of pressures. There isn't one single Chinese general or admiral today that has one day of combat experience. The last time these guys fought was 1979 in the north Vietnamese. The Vietnamese gave them a bloody nose. He's fired. Xi has fired all these generals. There are now no generals left on the Central Military Commission that kind of oversees the whole thing.

[Margaret Brennan]

Let me ask you about what's happening

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

in the Middle East. The last time we spoke last spring, we were just weeks away from that US Israeli strike on the three nuclear sites in Iran. You said at that time it was maybe when you were Defense secretary you were concerned that a strike on the nuclear program would just buy time, a year or two, but it would not solve the problem. Do you still believe that?

[Robert Gates]

I think the only way that we are likely to get the enriched uranium out of Iran and bring about an end to their nuclear aspirations is through a negotiation.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

Is it possible for the President of the United States to walk away and

[Margaret Brennan]

leave this for the Israelis to settle?

[Robert Gates]

No, I don't think he can walk away and no, I don't think the Israelis can settle it. I don't think as powerful as they are, they don't have the kind of power the United States has. And I think president seems to have been very consistent, very clear that under no circumstances can Iran ever have a nuclear bomb. Well, the only way you get to that objective is resolving this issue of the enriched uranium and any future plans for enrichment. I mean, I think. I don't think that the nuclear program in Iran poses an imminent threat. After all, we bombed it twice.

[Margaret Brennan]

But it is a big enough problem

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

that it was clearly not going to be settled in four to six weeks, which was the timestamp that the American people were told to expect in terms of the duration of conflict.

[Robert Gates]

I think that there were some unrealistic expectations.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

Have you heard a clearly articulated sort of center of gravity to this operation? An end goal, a strategy?

[Robert Gates]

Well, I think some of the justifications have. Have changed over time. But one thing I think there have been a few things that have been consistent from the very beginning. One is to eliminate Iran's ability to have a nuclear weapon. Another is to eliminate their military capabilities to attack their neighbors. Third is to eliminate the capability to support their surrogates, the Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis, to sink their navy. I think those are all those were, have all been articulated as objectives of this operation. And although the nuclear program has been dramatically damaged and set back a long time, I think those other things, a lot has been accomplished.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

You were CIA director. You were a defense secretary. How do you assess Secretary Hegseth's performance?

[Robert Gates]

I'm not into talking about my successors, but I will say I want to point to something positive that I think is going on that goes back to something we were talking about earlier. I think. I think the leadership in the Pentagon and especially the deputy secretary and the undersecretary involved in acquisition, are doing some very important and overdue things in terms of shaking up the bureaucracy in the Pentagon.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

But he's got this focus on the warrior ethos. I'm sure you've heard a lot of what he has announced. He summoned the generals to D.C. told them he's tired of seeing fat troops and fat generals. He wants to weigh them twice a year. He ordered a ruthless review of the Judge Advocate Court, the military lawyers. He fired most of the inspectors general, saying he planned to overhaul the weaponized internal Pentagon watchdog. When you're talking about the things you

[Margaret Brennan]

like, would you put any of these

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

things on that list?

[Robert Gates]

No, I will say this. I mean, I. I fired a fair number of generals and senior people myself. The way I handled it was a little differently in the respect that I felt that I needed to go in front of the press and explain why I had taken these actions.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

Well, there's not a full Pentagon press corps even present at the Pentagon these days for a news conference like that without getting special permission to be on the premises. Right now, he's fired 16 military officials at least, including the Navy secretary, the Army Chief of Staff, General Randy George during the Iran war. He pushed out the admiral at the helm of Southcom, the chief of Naval operations, the Air Force vice chief of of staff, the head of Defense intelligence. Do you see those things as necessary disruption that ultimately will have a positive impact, or does it concern you?

[Robert Gates]

Well, it concerns me, but I also have to acknowledge that I don't know the rationale for those changes. I don't know why those changes were made. And there may be perfectly justifiable reasons, but I just don't know what they are.

[Margaret Brennan]

And you think that that should be

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

explained to the public and to the Congress.

[Robert Gates]

I think that people, when you have a lot of changes like that. Yeah, I think you. I think there is an obligation to explain at a minimum to the Congress, the rationale.

[Interviewer with Robert Gates]

The systems don't seem to be operating

[Margaret Brennan]

that way right now.

[Robert Gates]

No.

[Margaret Brennan]

Our full interview with Secretary Gates is available on our website YouTube channel and our podcast. We'll be right back. That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan. Today's guests were United States Trade Representative Jamison Greer, Taiwan's representative to the U.S. ambassador Alexander Yu, Pennsylvania Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick, New York Democratic Congressman Tom Suozzi, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and CBS News Executive Director of Elections and Surveys Anthony Salvanta. The senior executive producer of Face the Nation is Mary Hager Laird. The executive producer of Face the Nation is Anne Hsu. This broadcast was directed by Shelly Schwartz. Face the Nation originates from CBS News in Washington. For more Face the Nation, we're [e-mail] and on YouTube. We're also rebroadcast on our CBS News 24. 7 streaming network at 12:30 and 2:00pm on Sundays. It's available through our apps CBS News and Paramount Plus. The first time I remember my dad killing somebody was probably four years old.

[Donald Trump]

A new Paramount plus original documentary.

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

He was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

[Margaret Brennan]

There's no question in my mind that

[Donald Trump]

Don was a killer. One family. He was a Persona Family divided by the truth.

[Alexander Yu]

I came to defend my family.

[Margaret Brennan]

I'm not lying. There's bodies up there.

[Jameson Greer]

You can scour every inch of those grounds.

[Margaret Brennan]

There is nothing there.

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Let's dig it.

[Donald Trump]

My killer father, the Green Hollow Murders. Streaming now on Paramount.

[Margaret Brennan]

Streaming May 22nd on Paramount.

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Chicago. It's my home.

[Robert Gates]

The acclaimed series the Shy reaches its final chapter.

[Jameson Greer]

This the Shy Anything's possible.

[Margaret Brennan]

The Shy the final season.

[Robert Gates]

Streaming May 22nd only on Paramount.