A Forensic Analysis with Emily Deschanel

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fail Better with David Duchovny – A Forensic Analysis with Emily Deschanel

Release Date: July 8, 2025 | Host: David Duchovny | Guest: Emily Deschanel | Producer: Lemonada Media

---

Introduction to the Episode

In this deeply introspective episode of Fail Better with David Duchovny, host David Duchovny engages in a candid conversation with actress Emily Deschanel and Hart Hanson, the creator of the hit series Bones. The discussion delves into themes of failure, personal growth, mental health challenges, and navigating success within the high-pressure environment of a long-running television series.

---

Early Diagnoses and Educational Challenges

Emily Deschanel opens up about her early life, revealing she was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 11 and later with dyslexia. She reflects on the struggles of being diagnosed at a young age, especially as a girl in a time when such conditions were often overlooked.

"[03:13] Emily Deschanel: I think I was 11."

David Duchovny shares his own background, coming from a family of educators, emphasizing the importance of support for children with learning difficulties.

"[03:24] David Duchovny: But we do. This is very interesting. My mother was a first-grade teacher..."

Emily discusses the instability of her early education, attending numerous schools across different locations due to her father's work, which hindered consistent support for her learning challenges.

"[04:17] Emily Deschanel: No, it's all in LA? No, no, I was San Francisco, Louisiana, off the coast of Africa and the Seychelles and then in London."

---

Navigating Acting with ADHD and Dyslexia

The conversation shifts to Emily's experiences acting in Bones, highlighting the added difficulty of memorizing complex, technical dialogue due to her dyslexia and ADHD.

"[05:40] Emily Deschanel: It's pretty. I'm fairly minor. I think my ADHD I experience much more in my daily life now."

She shares strategies that helped her manage her responsibilities on set, such as having someone assist her with lines, which contrasts with David's approach of memorizing lines well in advance.

"[06:35] Emily Deschanel: Yeah, I mean, it was a challenge. The first season was the most challenging to me."

---

Mental Health Struggles and On-Set Pressures

Emily candidly discusses her mental health struggles during the filming of Bones, including panic attacks and feelings of inadequacy when forgetting lines. She recounts an incident where Hart Hanson addressed concerns about her punctuality and preparedness, which was a catalyst for her seeking support.

"[36:27] Emily Deschanel: ...Hart knocked on my trailer door and I... he took me aside and said, you know, the studio is concerned about your work."

Hart Hanson provides insight into his role in supporting Emily, ensuring she received the necessary accommodations to perform effectively despite her challenges.

"[40:08] Emily Deschanel: Hart Hanson, who's the creator of the show... he gave me support."

---

Balancing Parenthood and Career

The dialogue transitions to Emily's experiences balancing her demanding acting career with motherhood. She discusses the anxieties of parenting, especially raising boys in a culture that often scrutinizes male development.

"[44:32] Emily Deschanel: ...kids are close to their moms... sometimes they'll run to him instead of me. And that's a hard thing for me."

David and Hart empathize, sharing their own parenting anxieties and the perpetual nature of responsibility that comes with raising children.

"[44:36] Emily Deschanel: ...you have to make sure that your kids know, hey, all these things in the world are happening, but we're gonna be okay."

---

Redefining Failure and Embracing Compassion

A significant portion of the episode focuses on reimagining failure not as a setback but as a pathway to growth and self-compassion. David introduces the concept of distinguishing between empathy and compassion, advocating for a scalable approach to caring for others without becoming emotionally drained.

"[61:27] David Duchovny: ...compassion is more scalable, and I think it's also less exhausting."

Emily connects this to her acting, where empathy is essential yet emotionally taxing, highlighting the importance of self-compassion in managing personal and professional challenges.

"[62:07] Emily Deschanel: ...compassion seems a little more logical, a little less emotional and exhausting."

Together, they explore how embracing failure can lead to humility, vulnerability, and continued personal development, contrasting it with the arrogance and complacency that often accompany success.

"[59:09] David Duchovny: ...humility, vulnerability, enthusiasm... nothing from success."

---

Rewatching Bones and Self-Reflection

Towards the end of the episode, Emily and her friend Carla Gallo discuss their Bones rewatch podcast, sharing insights and reminiscing about their time on set. Emily reflects on watching herself act, revealing mixed feelings about observing her past performances.

"[64:26] Emily Deschanel: ...I hate watching myself in everything you do. Yeah, everything."

David shares his enjoyment of this introspective approach, noting how it forces him to relinquish control and embrace the unpredictability of conversation and self-discovery.

"[65:14] David Duchovny: ...it really taught me something that we're going to get these, we're going to get to these places and I can let go of controlling it."

---

Conclusion and Takeaways

In A Forensic Analysis with Emily Deschanel, Fail Better with David Duchovny offers listeners a profound exploration of failure's role in personal and professional growth. Through Emily's vulnerable storytelling and the supportive dialogue with Hart Hanson and David, the episode underscores the importance of self-compassion, adaptability, and the continuous pursuit of improvement despite setbacks.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "Sometimes you have to let go of controlling it and let the answer evolve." — [65:14] David Duchovny
• "Compassion is more scalable, and I think it's also less exhausting." — [62:07] Emily Deschanel
• "Failure makes you... I think it grows your brain, whereas success probably shrinks it." — [59:45] David Duchovny

---

This episode serves as an inspiring testament to embracing failure as a catalyst for growth, highlighting the shared human experience of struggling, overcoming, and ultimately, failing better.

Transcript

[David Duchovny]

The Defender 110 is a vehicle made for the modern explorer. It's built with purpose and it's naturally capable and ready for expeditions. The Defender 110 has the endurance to take you further than you thought possible and you'll drive with on road presence and off road prowess. This is a vehicle that looks tough because it is tough. Its exterior is designed for optimum durability and the raised hood and sculpted grille give the defender 110amodern edge on the inside. It's ready for the whole crew with five seats and the option of expanding to seven. That's capability, meeting comfort and the tech is no joke. 3D surround cameras with Clearsight Ground View let you see underneath the vehicle. You can anticipate obstacles and rough terrain anything you encounter on your adventures, and Clearsight Rear View offers unobstructed views even when you can't see through the back window. Driver aid technologies also make driving and parking simpler, and the next generation infotainment system helps you make even more of your experience. You can also customize the driver display to match your needs and your journey. Design your Defender [e-mail].

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe make life suck less with fewer ads with Lemonada Premium.

[Emily Deschanel]

Lemonada.

[David Duchovny]

I'm David Duchovny and this is Fail Better, a show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Emily Deschanel is an actor who spent more than a decade of her life playing the brilliant and blunt Dr. Temperance Brennan on the hit Fox series Bones. The show was one of the most widely recognized crime dramas of all time and remains a popular comfort watch today. Emily currently co hosts a rewatch podcast called Boneheads. The critically acclaimed show is loosely based on the novels and career of forensic anthropologist and author Kathy Reichs. It's often credited for helping inspire women to pursue STEM careers, which was rare to see on TV at the time. Emily grew up a theater kid in a family full of stars. I remember working with her dad, Caleb, who was a highly respected cinematographer, but I worked with him as a director on Twin Peaks. On one of my very first projects that I did. We talk about the success of a 12 season run, plus how she advocated for herself and navigated parenting through it. Here's our conversation. When were you diagnosed with ADHD and. Or dyslexia and dyslexia?

[Emily Deschanel]

I think I was 11.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, that's young.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, and I think a lot of people my age did not get diagnosed. Especially girls did not get diagnosed. Anyways, we don't need to talk about that.

[David Duchovny]

But we do. This is very interesting. My mother was a first grade teacher, second grade teacher. My sister is a grade school teacher. I come from a family of people that taught younger people how to read.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So my mother was a. You know, my mother began teaching in like 1975, 76. Around then. And that was before I think they knew what dyslexia was, but it was before it was frequently diagnosed. Usually kids would get left behind if they were dyslexic because they just didn't seem to be keeping up with the other students. But my mother was a big champion of kids who had trouble learning to read. And she would come up with all different kinds of schemes to reach different kids because not everybody learns the same way. Was that your experience?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I mean, I went to a million different schools. So even in Los Angeles.

[David Duchovny]

That seems like an exaggeration to me. I just have to say, I don't want you to.

[Emily Deschanel]

Every day I would change halfway through. I went to a different school. I drive to another town every day. No, it was probably like seven or something. Wait, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. For elementary, this was all in LA? No, no, I was San Francisco, Louisiana, off the coast of Africa and the Seychelles and then in London.

[David Duchovny]

Is that because your dad was shooting something in Africa?

[Emily Deschanel]

So I think it was also. You don't have the consistency of being at the same school where people realize, you know, something's going on.

[David Duchovny]

Right. They get to know you in depth. They don't.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, they're kind. I mean, I was halfway through some years. I probably in part because I was dealing with that. I, I went to one, I went to a Catholic school. My mom took me out halfway through a year. It was kind of dramatic. When you think back. It's very dramatic.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I think they were pretty strict and they didn't get me. But yeah, it was this. My memory serves. It was the American school in London that I just met someone who went there. Lots of people. Kathleen Turner went there. Cause I Worked with her and we realized. We both went there. Great school in London. They realized and they had me tested and then they had support for reading and I went to like, the special reading class.

[David Duchovny]

How does your dyslexia appear to you? You just slip now.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's pretty. I'm fairly minor. I think my adhd. I experience much more in my daily life now. I think the dyslexia. I'm sure there's a lot. It takes me a lot longer to read things, but. And I like listening to things on tape A lot of times if I'm reading a book.

[David Duchovny]

So you. Auditory processing.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I don't. I'm not good with auditory. I mean, according to the testing, really, I do not do well with auditory processing, but I, for whatever reason, I prefer it.

[David Duchovny]

You know, I know that on Bones you had, you know, reams of technical dialogue and stuff that must have been actually your nightmare come true. When I think of you now as a reader and as somebody who's trying to not put the. Or whatever, you know, these long words that could easily, because you don't know them, could easily flip letters around. It would sound exactly the same to you.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I mean, it was a challenge. The first season was the most challenging to me. I mean, you've been on first seasons of shows. It's insane already. Yeah, I, I mean, I would say that I. Once I figured out a system once. I, you know, I. They gave me someone to help me run lines.

[David Duchovny]

So when you see this is interesting because I'm. I'm about to go do a couple jobs and I'm. I'm, you know, I like to memorize my shit like way in advance and then forget it.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Uhhuh.

[David Duchovny]

If I can, like that's my, my ultimate. I mean, in television. Impossible.

[Emily Deschanel]

You can't do it.

[David Duchovny]

Impossible. So the night before you're getting the, the second Salmon Goldenrod revisions and you're like, holy shit, there's a monologue here that explains the entire show.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right, right. And this is really important and I gotta, Gotta memorize it. We didn't have Late Night Almost Never on Bones. That was the agreement. Hart Hanson, who you are.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

He all said, we won't give you something last minute, 24 hours kind of thing. And you agreed to not do that to us either. Like we won't as actors, come to them and say, hey, this scene isn't working for me. Can you change something about it? And so we kind of had a mutual agreement, which is kind of unheard of in tv.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. That is unheard of.

[Emily Deschanel]

So we didn't have that. But I couldn't. I realized I had done jobs before doing bones where I would learn my lines in advance. You know, this. I had. I learned. I had to learn them the day before, and somehow I would just. The last ones would go outta my mind and I would learn the new lines. And it's.

[David Duchovny]

Well, it's very muscular at that point. I think the brain just adapts to that kind of a thing. But. Yeah, but I was. I'm realizing, you know, when I'm memorizing these things for jobs coming up, I never speak the words out loud until I get to set.

[Emily Deschanel]

Whoa.

[David Duchovny]

I don't learn them out loud. And in fact, I don't process them well as memory. If I speak them out loud, that's blowing my mind. I just look at them and look at them and look at them and look at them.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I think David Boreanas is probably like that. Cause he could look at a page and just be like. He'd also. He'd played a character when we were working together that very much didn't have to say the words verbatim. My character spoke in a very specific way, and I had to say them exactly as written. You were speaking science, I was speaking science. I also came from play because I went to conservatory where playwright is king. You.

[David Duchovny]

This was Shakespeare.

[Emily Deschanel]

We were doing Shakespeare. We're doing Chekhov, we're doing Ibsen. So we. You know, I would not ever ask to change things. And especially playing Brennan. The lines were as written, but Dave Boreanis could just look and then do the scene. He spent time looking at them, too. I don't mean to minimize.

[David Duchovny]

I'm sure he looked at it at home beforehand.

[Emily Deschanel]

Absolutely. But I think in a pinch he could do that where he'd look at it and be able to do the scene. But no, I can't imagine. Because I also. Well, I guess also I'm thinking of. Most of my career has been playing the scientist. So I have to get my mouth around the words.

[David Duchovny]

Yes, I know.

[Emily Deschanel]

So if you have to say epiphyseal fusion or zygomatic arch or just saying that the other day, it just comes up in conversation all the time. It just comes up in conversation. So you have to get your mouth. I have to get my mouth around them. So that's shocking that you don't have to say them out loud.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I don't know. It's. It's weird. I also have this very. I have a very. And I'm. I'm trying to deal with it. My entire career is. I just. When we were talking here beforehand, I want it to be rolling. Cause I want the first time. I always want the first time. So I don't want it to be going over it. I don't even like to rehearse before we shoot. I like to rehearse a month ago, whatever. But when we're here, I like to let the lightning in a bottle try to happen.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, I hear that.

[David Duchovny]

And of course, you can do that on film, because you can make a mistake. It's okay. You can just go again. What I wanted to do.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yeah, your experiment, or whatever you want.

[Hart Hanson]

Oh, no, no.

[David Duchovny]

It's an experiment because you're an actor. And I thought. Do you know the story? Like when Marlon Brando did Last Tango in Paris, when he did the. He has a famous monologue. His wife has died, and he's found out that she's been having an affair with the landlord. And he's heartbroken because she's dead, and he's heartbroken because she'd been unfaithful to him. And he does this incredibly interesting monologue.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

To her corpse. The actress is lying there in the scene.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm, like, trying to remember if I've.

[David Duchovny]

Ever seen that movie. You don't have to have seen it.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I saw it. It was a very long time ago.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Not when you were a kid. You didn't see this when you were a kid?

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm hoping maybe teenager, 20.

[David Duchovny]

So Bertolucci, who I believe is the director, he had this long.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I think so.

[David Duchovny]

Oner shot that he wanted to do it in. And Brando apparently showed up. Not exactly word perfect.

[Emily Deschanel]

He would get the lines in his.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, eventually.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. This was younger.

[David Duchovny]

But here's the genius of Brando in this particular instance is he said, apparently could be an apocryphal story. He said, write my monologue on big cue cards, like Saturday Night Live or whatever. He didn't say Saturday Night Live because it didn't exist yet. But he had his monologue written on cue cards. But here's the genius part of Brando. He said, shuffle them and then place them around. Cause he knew the order, more or less. He knew the sense of it.

[Hart Hanson]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

So when you go back and you look at it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Look over here.

[David Duchovny]

It just looks like he's thinking. He's like, he'll get through one bit, and then he'll go, oh, there it is. And then he'd say, that part does Knowing this.

[Emily Deschanel]

Ruin that.

[David Duchovny]

No, I like it even more. So what I wanted to do was I wanted to take my notes.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, okay.

[David Duchovny]

And I wanted to shuffle them first.

[Emily Deschanel]

And just put them in wherever. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And then I'll look.

[Emily Deschanel]

I was ready to be reading dialogue.

[David Duchovny]

Well, it could get there. And what I wanted to do is give you these three cards.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. Are these my answers?

[David Duchovny]

These are you. To fill. Just write down some. One question per card. It has a prompt on one of them.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay, wait.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, the prompt. Is that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Do I read the prompt?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, just read the. You can read the prompt to yourself or to me. What does it say? You can't read my handwriting is the problem.

[Emily Deschanel]

I am at the age now where I have to write to read. No, but I can.

[David Duchovny]

You know what? You don't have to fix your eyes. You only have to lengthen your arms. It's much easier.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm at the point where I need the. I need to fix the eyes and lengthen the arms. Okay, wait. Ask questions for you?

[David Duchovny]

No, no, Just a question. Whatever. You can ask a question to me if that's what's on your mind. But just a question. Just a question. It could have to do with failure or not. It doesn't have to. I don't mean to bring proceedings to a screeching halt here.

[Emily Deschanel]

No, it's okay.

[David Duchovny]

But I seem to have. And then we're going to reshuffle everything. And then at times when I look down, maybe I'll just look at. Because here's why. This is what I was thinking this morning.

[Emily Deschanel]

I like it. I'm good with it.

[David Duchovny]

I'm a person that likes to do things well. And I think that gets in my way sometimes. So I have these ideas that this podcast or any podcast or any discussion should have some kind of form. Like we're talking about the song. It should go to a resolution.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And I'm trying to let go of that a little bit because, again, it's like saying earlier about rehearsal. It's like I'm trying to let a little magic or loss or in, you know, or mistake in.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Or something fucked up. So you're gonna be the guinea pig.

[Emily Deschanel]

I like it. I'm. I'm. I'm the same way you are. Yes.

[David Duchovny]

You want to shuffle those index cards.

[Emily Deschanel]

I want. I want. Thing. I want to. I want things to be controlled. Controlled. I guess that's not exactly what you're saying. You want to be good or.

[David Duchovny]

No, no. But control is part of that, because I'm trying to control it into being good.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know what I mean?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, exactly. If I can just control. If I can just do this one thing, if I can ask this question at this time and I can come to this conclusion, then it will be good.

[David Duchovny]

And as I've been having discussions about success and failure, I realize that so much of my life and people's lives is consumed with getting it right, you know, and getting it right is often, you know, that's fine. Getting it right is fine. But getting it wrong can be so much more interesting. And you know that as an actor, too.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, we're not talking about you getting the scientific words wrong. That's no good for anybody.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right, Right.

[David Duchovny]

But you've been involved in scenes on sets where shit goes wrong, and it's the best stuff you've ever done.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, so.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, I don't know about that, but I've definitely. I've definitely messed things. I've definitely failed in different ways or fallen short of the mark in so many ways. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

All right, well, what is your. What is your response in those times? Is it to kind of retreat into the shell of control and go, okay, this time, okay, I fucked up. I'm going to get it good this time? Or does it. In my experience, it kind of lets all this air into the room, you know?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And all of a sudden, everybody's breathing deeper. Okay. We're all human. That was kind of cool.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Now it brings a different sense into the next take.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, I think of. You know, I went to this conservatory for college. I had a teacher, Bill Young, and I just. He's my favorite teacher, my favorite acting teacher, and his class was mostly in comedy. I had some monologue that I was doing. And, you know, you just feel that it's bad. You know, you just feel like, this is not good. I don't know how to make it good. But you still are kind of hoping that your professor is gonna like it. And I finished it. And he just said, well, that was shitty. And I just loved him so much more in that moment. Cause it did. It freed me up. It a. In the way he said it. And the fact that he's telling me made me think that he thought I could do better. But he's acknowledging the fact that it was bad. We all know it was bad. And if he told me it was good, I wouldn't trust him either.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

So that, to me, I just always remember that because it, like, it opened me up so much and. And. And you gave me freedom. But I Will say that I probably am guilty of then trying to muscle my way into some making something good when I'm, you know, if a scene goes badly, if a. An audition goes badly, if, you know, something with my kids go badly, like, let me read more parenting books and then I will be a better parent. Let me make sure that I'm meditating every day so I'm not going to react or whatever it is. I definitely am the person that's like trying to get as I want a muscle away through and I want to get as much like outside input to make sure instead of trusting myself. I definitely am guilty of that.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I don't know about guilty. I don't like that word there. How many parenting books have you read?

[Emily Deschanel]

I probably can't count.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, a million.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, a million. One million. Exactly the number of schools I went to.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, there's that holy grail of the parenting book. You know, it's like every two or three years, there's, oh, everybody's got to read this book. And that's the one that's going to make your kids trauma proof or whatever it's supposed to be.

[Emily Deschanel]

But.

[David Duchovny]

But you know, there is going to be failure and tragedy in people's lives. And they are even my kids, you know, and that I, whom I got to meet. Did you meet them? Did they come to set?

[Hart Hanson]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, I shouldn't have done that. That was bad. I shouldn't have broken. I don't know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, you're thinking that's a failure.

[David Duchovny]

Never bring your children to set. I forgot that they were really cute.

[Emily Deschanel]

I remember. Was one named Kid.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I remember being marveling at the fact that there was a kid named Kid. Very cute, a good name. I just. That is your son.

[David Duchovny]

He just graduated college this week.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, congratulations, Kid Miller.

[David Duchovny]

Aw, yeah. And my daughter is Madeline West. Okay, right, West Miller. I always wanted to call him Kid, but he still goes by Miller. Maybe one day.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Because Kid to Covenant is kind of a good handle.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's a good name. Sounds like a cowboy or something.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I know. How are you doing on those questions?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, I only put one down. Should I do it? We start talking and then try another.

[David Duchovny]

One with the adhd. Can you talk?

[Emily Deschanel]

And that's the hard part.

[David Duchovny]

Okay.

[Emily Deschanel]

So it doesn't have to be about failure. It can just be about anything. But is it like I'll have to answer?

[David Duchovny]

I don't know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. All right, let me think.

[David Duchovny]

While you think, I'll say that when I did direct you, I wish that After a take I had said, well, that was shitty. And knowing that that's your favorite kind of response.

[Emily Deschanel]

He was my favorite.

[David Duchovny]

This is an ad by Better Help. You might have seen it coming, but it can still feel hard to prevent the impact your job has on your mental well being. Today, workplace stress is one of the top causes of declining mental health. 61% of the global workforce reports higher than normal stress levels. But let's face it, most of us can't just up and quit our jobs. But what we can do is start small. Maybe that means caring for your physical wellness, which I know is important to me. Or maybe it's the boost you feel from engaging with nature, especially in the summer. And going on a vacation can be a great reset, but it isn't a long term solution to stress. You know what can be though, and pairs well with these other approaches to wellness therapy. Therapy can help you navigate whatever challenges the workday or any day might bring. That can mean building better boundaries or working on coping strategies for stressors. It's a multi tool for a multifaceted life. And BetterHelp is a great big tool. Having served over 5 million people globally. Plus with an App Store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp shows how many people it works for. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com failbetter that's better H E L P.com failbetter.

[Reshma Saujani]

Hey Julia, Louis Dreyfus here. If you listen to me on my Wiser Than Me podcast, you probably already know that I'm an investor and an evangelist for the Mill food recycler. There are a lot of reasons to love mill, but for me it's all about the impact. Keeping food out of the garbage is one of the most powerful things we can do to help the planet every single day. We're talking banana peels, carrot tops, old takeout. When that stuff heads to the landfill, it becomes a huge driver of climate change change. If you already compost, great. But of course there's the smell, the flies, the running to the curb every day with a little leaking compost bag made of cornstarch. That's where mill comes in. It makes keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it in. It can handle nearly anything from a turkey carcass to like 20 avocado pits. It works automatically while you sleep, you can keep filling it for weeks and it never ever smells. Mill makes dry, nutrient rich grounds that you can use in your garden, add to your compost, feed to your chickens. Or mill can get them back to a small farm for you. But you kind of have to live with Mill to really get it. And that's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[David Duchovny]

When it comes to growing your business, engaging with your customers is crucial. How else will they know about your business or decide whether it's a good fit for them? But the question remains, how do I do it? Not everyone has the time, skills or money to keep up with marketing every day. That's why there's Constant Contact, like a mini marketing team just for you. But the impact is far from many. Constant Contact lets you manage website landing pages, social media campaigns, texts and email marketing all in one place. Over half a million small businesses use those tools to stay connected, top of mind and ahead of the competition. Constant Contact is helping the small stand tall. Pricing is transparent and based on your contact list, so you're only paying for what you need. And they have a friendly phone support team to help with any questions that come up. Looking at the tools, I can see just how comprehensive the approach of Constant Contact is. They really pack it all in there and they still let you call the shots even while they're doing a lot of the hard work behind the scenes. Get a free 30 day trial when you go to constant contact dot com. Try constant contact. Free for 30 days at constant contact dot com. Constant contact dot com. I brought, I brought this. Don't, don't look up yet. You're writing. But where is this? I found this on, on the online.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh my God. Well, now it's just me, but yeah. Oh my gosh.

[David Duchovny]

It looks like I'm restraining. I'm restraining you. You look pissed off.

[Emily Deschanel]

That was my warming coat on set for so many. It became so.

[David Duchovny]

You look very skeptical. I don't know if you're getting that anywhere, but she looks very skeptical and I look like I'm restraining her over here from going after somebody.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, that is like my go to look. I once did a film and the, I had all the. I had like a family. I was married and I had like three children and I was thinking thoughts in my mind as an actor thinking like, oh, what a beautiful day. I'm sorry, grateful and lucky to have this family. My husband's playing basketball with my kids.

[David Duchovny]

This is your character?

[Emily Deschanel]

This is my character's. Mind. Right. And those were my inner thoughts as the actor and the director came up and he said, what are you thinking about? And I didn't want to tell him because I was just kind of. I don't know, it just felt personal and embarrassed. I don't know. I was like, well, what are you seeing?

[David Duchovny]

What are you seeing?

[Emily Deschanel]

He said, you look sinister.

[David Duchovny]

Sinister.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think because I have deep set eyes and I like. I tend to furrow my brow. That's my go to. Skepticism. Sinister.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

So you're just getting that. It's just my go to. It's my resting, skeptical, sinister face.

[David Duchovny]

Resting sinister face. I had an experience, one of the first films I did. I think I. You can just shuffle them. Shuffle them. I think I almost got fired from it and.

[Emily Deschanel]

Which is a job, a movie, a movie.

[David Duchovny]

And I know that they weren't pleased with. Particularly pleased with what I was doing. And in this. In this. Which I think you have a story about that as well that I've. I've seen from the first season of Bones, right. Where you feel like, oh, my God, they. They don't like me.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, well, it was.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, there were several things that happened on Bones, but. So first seasons are insane. We were working insane hours, longer than just a normal series. So, you know, you're working 14 to 16 hour days. And then I had to memorize those. The lines. And so I'd be staying up late at night memorizing lines. I would joke that I would go home and just cry in a bathtub every night. Cause I was just so overwhelmed. I'd come to set and I would, you know, be trying to remember the lines that I, you know, I got no sleep then trying to remember the lines that I had memorized the day before. And then I had them in my head and couldn't remember them. I'd be on set and I'd look around and I'd see the whole crew looking at me, kind of waiting for me to know my lines, to say my lines, which was complicated dialogue. And I would remember a friend who's a crew member who I knew from other jobs would say. It's told me that crews hate it when actors forget their lines. Like, it's such a pain.

[David Duchovny]

I do too.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. I mean, if another. If an actor for. I mean, I have a lot of compassion having done this myself, having experienced where I couldn't be working harder to learn these things and still not being able to get it. But I also, at the same time, can get annoying.

[David Duchovny]

Crews hate It. When actors haven't memorized their lines.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

I think they can tell the difference between somebody who's having a moment and somebody who hasn't, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Given the respect.

[Hart Hanson]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Of the other working people on this set.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That have families they have to go back to.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And they're not making magic and they don't give a fuck.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. They're here. They have a job. They're working insanely.

[David Duchovny]

Your job is to know your lines.

[Emily Deschanel]

And my job is to know my lines and to know what I'm supposed to do in the scene. And I look around, I'd see that and then the room would start to like, close.

[David Duchovny]

Tunnel vision.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Fight flight.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, I didn't know I was having panic attacks, but I was basically having panic attacks at the time and then just trying to, you know. And that's a lot. Keeping things on your shoulder. And so one time.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Hart Hanson, who's the creator of the show.

[David Duchovny]

A friend of mine.

[Emily Deschanel]

A friend of yours?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Who you met. Did you meet while. When you directed Bones or did you know of each other before?

[David Duchovny]

No. Hart lived up in Malibu where I lived. And I think. I think I met him when I was getting coffee and he had. He had been a big fan of the X Files and I think he had maybe wanted to write on that and. And. But I'd never met him before that.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And I just loved him as a person.

[Emily Deschanel]

He's the best.

[David Duchovny]

And you know, we were just talking and then at one point he just said, you want to come direct a show? And I was like, yeah, yeah, why not? Why not? Yeah, sure, I'll come direct a show.

[Emily Deschanel]

You're good at it too. I remember you being very good at it.

[David Duchovny]

You know why? I want to get back to your story. But you know, I was thinking, why? Why? I said yes, because I never thought of myself as a director for hire, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right, right.

[David Duchovny]

I've directed stuff that I'm in. I've directed stuff that I've written. That's stuff that I think of. But I thought at that point I thought, oh, how interesting to direct something. Just direct, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right. You just come in. That's all you have to do.

[David Duchovny]

I'm just working, you know, I'm not. It's not. Forgive me. It's not coming from my heart.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's not a passion.

[David Duchovny]

It's not. I'm just gonna like solve this little Rubik's Cube here. Y Walk away. Cuz in TV the director has to walk away. You get I think two or three days of cutting of Post. And then Steve. I forget his.

[Emily Deschanel]

Steve Beers.

[David Duchovny]

Steve Beers comes in and recuts everything that you did. So I had, like, two or three.

[Emily Deschanel]

Days, or Stephen Nathan, probably. I think Steve Beers was our, you know, line producer.

[David Duchovny]

I think it was.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think it was Stephen Nathan, probably.

[David Duchovny]

But, you know, he was. He was kind of like the post showrunner.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes, exactly.

[David Duchovny]

And I'm sure he did a great job. But you don't. You don't have. You don't. You know, you're not. You're not attached to it in a way. And I thought, you know, and I had a really good time, and that was. It was a lesson to me to. To try to go into every scene and just go, how do I help these people be the best they can be? How do we make this scene the best it can be?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, but not, like, break anybody's ass and try to go into overtime and, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Not. Not like that at all.

[Emily Deschanel]

We've got multiple crane shots.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, exactly. So I enjoyed it. I enjoyed. This is gonna sound really wrong. I enjoyed not caring that much.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Does that make any sense?

[Emily Deschanel]

No, it makes complete sense.

[David Duchovny]

Does that sound horrible?

[Emily Deschanel]

No. No. There's a joy in putting all of everything and your passion into something, but that's. You're never gonna feel that way as a director coming in to a television show. You know, if you are part of the process and you're directing the show, that's maybe different. But most TV directors, they come in and they're, like, really skillful at knowing what. Getting things done quickly, knowing how to work with actors. But honestly, I mean, did you get a lot of acting notes? I didn't get a ton of acting notes from directors who come in just in general as, like. As episodic directors.

[David Duchovny]

Well, this is interesting because it was a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I was doing the X Files. Not so much the other shows that I've done, but, you know, as with Bones, it's episodic, but every episode is pretty high drama, you know, it can be life and death. So I would have directors, and sometimes the directors would come on and they'd know they had a great script. And this was like, on the X Files, this could happen, you know, like, holy shit, this is a great script. And they really wanted to kill it, you know, so they would. They. They were. They were dangerous.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Those guys were right.

[David Duchovny]

So often they would say, we've never seen Mulder like this before. You Know, and I'd say, yeah, as about 10 other times. 10 other times we've seen Mulder like this before. And.

[Emily Deschanel]

And then there was, like, very special Mulder episode. Yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And then there was stuff like, you know, we did an episode in the first season where the. The gist of it was Mulder's afraid of fire, and he's got to go into this building that's on fire where there's a guy who's kind of, like, making him think of fire and really kryptonite and weakening him. And I remember in the middle of the episode, I had this thought, and I think I went up to Chris Carter, who wrote that episode, I believe, and I said, didn't Mulder and Scully watch a building burn down in the pilot? And I think Mulder was fairly cool with it. It didn't bother him. I was like, this kind of stuff where you're going. You're kind of the cur of the character, and sometimes you have to go, I can't actually do that.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

They didn't. What's funny is I had a similar situation where first season of Bones, I'm very cool with a snake that's there. And then second season or third season, they have me terrified of snakes, but little old me was like, well, they know that I was near a snake in episode 18 and season one or whatever it was, so they must. I, I, I just made that I was scared. I. In my mind, I made it that I was scared of small snakes because the other ones are small snakes. And so I just. I didn't even. Now I would ask, go to the showrunner.

[David Duchovny]

What's the term for fear of snakes?

[Emily Deschanel]

I know Coulrophobia is a fear of. Of clowns.

[David Duchovny]

That's different.

[Emily Deschanel]

That's all I know.

[David Duchovny]

Clown snake or clown fish. What's the fear of clownfish? Clown fish? My. My daughter has a fear of snakes. Oh.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And it's. And it's real. I mean, it's. It's.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

It overcomes her.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm not great with snakes, but I.

[David Duchovny]

It's like the tiny ones. It's the tiny ones.

[Emily Deschanel]

The tiny ones move quickly. I feel like the tiny ones are scarier than the big ones.

[David Duchovny]

They could be. They could be.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm with Brennan.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

But. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So bring. Bring me back.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. So I was in. I'm in my trailer first season. I'm having panic attacks.

[David Duchovny]

But what's very interesting is the. What you. You mentioned, like, the tunnel vision.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

Because we Talk about failure a lot on this podcast. But there. We usually talk about things or experiences or events, but, you know, there's the physiological response to something that's failing or something that's going wrong.

[Emily Deschanel]

The panic, the shame. The shame. The shame.

[David Duchovny]

Shame is a big deal.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, it's probably shame. I mean, the panic is part of the shame. But I think it is what's at.

[David Duchovny]

The heart of it. I think at the heart of it, what you're saying is, oh, I'm exposed here, as you know. Cause you mentioned the crew. So they're all seeing that I can't do it. They're all seeing that I'm bad. They're all seeing that I didn't work hard enough.

[Emily Deschanel]

My true self, if you will. My failing self, that I can't do it. It's like imposter syndrome kind of thing. They all know that I'm just faking this. Yeah, it's very exposing. And. Yeah, I think it is. It is shame. And so I was feeling that. I mean, I had been late. We were filming in Whittier. There was like a terrible accident. I'd been late. You don't realize that, like, the studio sees the production report and all they see is like, Emily Deschanel arrived 30 minutes late.

[David Duchovny]

And, you know, I never thought about that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, you did? You never think of it at all, ever?

[David Duchovny]

Only when I started directing, I was like, these fuckers are late, right?

[Emily Deschanel]

No, I was very much aware. Maybe after this conversation that I had with Hart, I became very aware of, like, okay, they know when I step into the hair makeup trailer, and they know exactly what time. They know if I've caused it. They know if anyone's caused a delay and becoming a producer on the show also where, like. Anyway, after this conversation, I was never late again. But he. Hart knocked on my trailer door and I. Which was, you know, not a usual thing. He wasn't knocking on my door often.

[David Duchovny]

It's like the cops knocking on the door.

[Emily Deschanel]

I thought it might be the cops, the TV cops. I was arrested. Gonna get arrested. But anyways, basically was. He took me aside and said, you know, the studio is concerned about your. Has concerns about your work.

[Hart Hanson]

They.

[David Duchovny]

What does that mean?

[Emily Deschanel]

They said that I was late and unprepared. And that to me, like, was. I mean, I get emotional just thinking about it now because it probably shame. It was like, you are unprofessional. Oh, my God, it's so funny. Like, I literally just gave a speech and I mentioned this speech, and now why is it like, sorry.

[David Duchovny]

No, no, don't apologize.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm a dramatic actor.

[David Duchovny]

No, what I think is if I could. If I could just stop there for a moment is it's your self respect. It's your. It's like they're saying you're a bad person.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, it's not even about acting at that point. It's like you don't care about other people is what I'm hearing there.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And that's not you. So you're being misunderstood.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think a lot of it.

[Hart Hanson]

That hurts.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was feeling, you know, I grew up, my dad had such a strong work ethic. Like, I love.

[David Duchovny]

Do you know your dad directed me.

[Emily Deschanel]

Twin Peaks? Yeah, I knew that years ago, I think when we worked together. That's so crazy.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

My dad directed you. You directed me. I have to direct one of your children. Is that how it works?

[David Duchovny]

Direct my daughter?

[Emily Deschanel]

Are they actors?

[David Duchovny]

My daughter is. Yeah. You'll have to direct my daughter.

[Emily Deschanel]

I would love to direct your daughter.

[David Duchovny]

I mean, terrific.

[Emily Deschanel]

I've hardly directed, but I think you should. I would love to. I just don't have the opportunities to. I mean, yet. That's a whole other thing. But we'll get there.

[David Duchovny]

It might be in the cards here. Is it in the cards? Okay. So hard.

[Emily Deschanel]

Literal guards. So hard is knocking on my door.

[David Duchovny]

Kaleidoscopic fractions off of his glasses and.

[Emily Deschanel]

He says, they have. And I just, I mean, I was a wreck. I mean, my friend was visiting me at the time. She's like, I didn't think human beings had projectile tears.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

You know, in cartoons, I took it so hard and, you know, I was such a fragile, you know, person at the time. I mean, you know, I got hardened up doing that show for so long. I was such a, you know, I mean, I was not sleeping. I was like so stressed out. I was already like, I'm an actor, I'm an emotional person. So I was just beside myself. But yeah, they took me aside and said that. And then the next day we got picked up.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, really?

[Emily Deschanel]

For the back nine.

[David Duchovny]

So did Hart say, okay, now we're in this process. So, like, how do we address these issues without making you break down and feel miserable?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, so he gave me support. That's how I got someone to help me run the lines with me.

[David Duchovny]

Okay. So practical. There's a practical.

[Emily Deschanel]

Then they were like, you need to go to your trailer. Cuz I would never go to my trailer except unless I was Changing or whatever.

[David Duchovny]

I love being in my trailer.

[Emily Deschanel]

I ended up. I ended up loving it. And they gave me a bigger trailer. I just had a small trailer when I first.

[David Duchovny]

That's why I didn't want to be in it.

[Emily Deschanel]

David Boreanas had a big trailer and they gave. They was not in my contract, but they gave me a big trailer, you know, because I was also not. There was no, no scenes I was not in that they weren't filming on a double up day. So, you know, you had double up days, I'm sure.

[David Duchovny]

I mean, two units.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, two units. So I'd go to the next episode and they'd film scenes that I wasn't in. So.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

They realized that they could write more scenes for the. They do a lot of things to help me.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Not be a nervous wreck.

[David Duchovny]

Well, once you're. Once you got picked up and you've established the two main characters, then they could service the kind of orbiting characters.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

And they're so good. We had great actors and they realized how they could utilize them more. And they also realized, you know, you don't put eight people on a lab platform scene, you know, with eight pages. That is.

[David Duchovny]

I remember trying to shoot one like that. I was like, how are we going to shoot this? You know, let's.

[Emily Deschanel]

You were just. Season two.

[David Duchovny]

Let's get a tight eight over here. Can you all just face the same direction?

[Emily Deschanel]

We definitely had late nights like that where directors, I think you're all just standing, looking at the body like, you know, from this angle, you know, it would be two in the morning and on a Saturday.

[David Duchovny]

And all the actors like, yes.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Eventually, the first, the first, last episode after the pilot, I remember the director wasn't doing that extreme of a thing, but I think he. He took us, you know, he just kind of said, okay, you can stand here, you can stand there. And several of us had never done a series before where someone just tells you, okay. You stand there and you get to a point where you're like, great, tell me where to go and I will do it. And if I have any, I will tell you. But mostly I'll just make it work. And we were like, we were offended basically that this director had told us where to stand. And then we realized, you know, a few episodes later, it was a gift that we were given.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

What I would try to do if I was faced with a, you know, a scene where there were five people talking.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I shouldn't.

[Emily Deschanel]

As a director.

[David Duchovny]

No, as an actor, I would say I'M going to go stand away from everybody.

[Emily Deschanel]

So you get a single.

[David Duchovny]

Well, not just a single, but just my coverage is done. You know, like, I don't. I don't.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I'm just gonna stand here and look everywhere.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm gonna be in the corner with a Kim Kut. Why not with the water cooler?

[David Duchovny]

I think Mulder would go over there and everybody else is, you know. Cause he's an outsider. Everybody else is over there. All this.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, you justified it.

[David Duchovny]

I justified it, yeah.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So Hart kind of worked with you. So he kind of held your hand through that in a nice way. That's good.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

And Hart helped me find ways to, you know, be better at my, you know, get my job done in terms of learning my lines and remembering them. And a lot of it was having downtime or having, you know, some scene that I'm not in, et cetera. So. Yeah, he's just a good one. We were so lucky.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you know why, you know why he's so good?

[Emily Deschanel]

Because he's Canadian.

[David Duchovny]

Exactly.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That's the only reason. But it's true. Did you ever. Was there ever any kind of a recurrence of that tunnelly feeling?

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, daily.

[David Duchovny]

Daily, right. Yeah, because it does kind of come back, but you learn to. The flare ups are smaller and smaller. And you know that you've been through it. You're like, I can, I can. I can exist within this.

[Emily Deschanel]

For me as an actor, I got smaller and smaller. For me now as a person, I feel like my anxiety is like now in the last, whatever, six months has been insane. So I can't say that it, like in my life, my anxiety is just.

[David Duchovny]

As a parent, human as a parent.

[Emily Deschanel]

And as just everything in my life. But yes, as a parent, I. I will wake up in the middle of the night and be.

[David Duchovny]

I mean, let me give you the good news.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Never ends.

[Emily Deschanel]

Wait, do. Are both of your children out of college just now? So long ago, but still, I mean.

[David Duchovny]

I will continue to worry forever.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

No, I know the job never ends. Not like.

[David Duchovny]

Not that they're so, you know, meriting of worry, but it's just the nature. And as a mother, even more so. I'm sure. You have two boys, is that right?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Look at you. You did research.

[David Duchovny]

It's in here somewhere. But I thought, how very interesting because, you know, there's a lot of focus these days on boys. Like just recently, like young men. I'm going off to do a movie that kind of attacks this. But there's. Every day it seems there's an article I'm reading, you know, like, what's wrong with young men? And I wonder, do you think about. Well, as a woman, you know, you're raising boys.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You're married, your husband is involved, obviously.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, very involved.

[David Duchovny]

Yes. Very involved. And especially with. With boys, you know, modeling, you know, that. That aspect of manhood, whatever it is. But do you. Have you been struck just in the time that you've been raising these two boys of, of watching in the, in the culture in general, of there being this kind of, if not a problem with boys, then a focus on what's wrong with boys?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

And it's so funny that you mention that. And having read so many parenting books. I have parenting books. One million, as we know, but I have not read one million and one, which are the ones about the boys. I do have books that are specifically about boys. And I think. And the articles and things like that, it gives me anxiety. It gives me anxiety to. I've read a little bit, but I haven't taken a deep dive there. But yeah, no, I mean, I'm so glad I wanted to have girls when I was younger, you know, when I was a kid and then I babysat for two boys. And I just love them. And so I am so glad I have boys. Somebody said to me, boys need their moms, but they hate that they need their moms. And I find that to be very much like a thing, you know, in my relationship with my sons. Like, there's something that I can't provide for them. That their dad provides for them.

[David Duchovny]

Absolutely.

[Emily Deschanel]

And that.

[Hart Hanson]

That.

[Emily Deschanel]

And there. And sometimes I, you know, because I was close to my mom growing up, and I just think, you know, kids are close to their moms, so. And I'm there more than my husband is. But I mean, it fluctuates depending on what we're each doing, work wise. But. But sometimes, you know, they'll run to him instead of me. And that's. That's. That's a hard thing for me. Just. Yeah, it is. I mean, it was started with like, working so hard when they were really young that, like, I missed first steps. I missed certain things.

[David Duchovny]

I wanted to ask about that. That you had. You gave birth to both boys during the.

[Emily Deschanel]

On the set of Bones.

[David Duchovny]

You did not. You just used that great set, perfect.

[Emily Deschanel]

Set to give birth at 12 hours.

[David Duchovny]

Before I went to.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I did not give birth.

[David Duchovny]

How did they shoot around that?

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, so the. My first son, I was due in the middle of the season. And I asked for six weeks off. And Hart, showrunner, like, who we talked about. Who we talked about before. He Canadian, as you'll see. He gave me 12 weeks off. So.

[David Duchovny]

So Canadian.

[Emily Deschanel]

So Canadian. He gave me extra.

[David Duchovny]

That's almost. That's almost Scandinavian.

[Emily Deschanel]

No, Scandinavian would be a year for each parent. Maybe two years, I think.

[David Duchovny]

And paid page for a year.

[Emily Deschanel]

I know at least a year in Sweden because I know some Swedes, but.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Fucking civilized.

[Emily Deschanel]

I know. I think I'd go a little bit crazy with a baby. And I mean, I guess if both of you. Yeah, both parents get that, so. No, that would be lovely.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. So wait, anyway, just let me just imagine.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I'm shooting you. You're big, right?

[Emily Deschanel]

I was pregnant. I was. My character was pregnant.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, your character was pregnant?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes. Both times I told Heart, I was like, I'm not going to be one of those tiny pregnant people. I'm gonna. You can't hide. You're not gonna be able to hide it. You definitely could not hide it.

[David Duchovny]

Jillian got pregnant the first season and we had to shoot.

[Hart Hanson]

Oh, my God.

[Emily Deschanel]

The first season?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And we didn't shoot her for being pregnant. You know, we shot her for not. Yeah.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

The first season is hard. We were in our sixth season, maybe something like that. And so. But the character. Booth and Brennan are. My character and David Boreanas character were not together. They decided to put us together. There was discussion whether I have another ba. I have a baby on my own.

[David Duchovny]

So they put you together because you were pregnant. See, that's interesting that it drives story.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Interest.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, it is interesting.

[David Duchovny]

What about your energy, you know?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

So hard.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, I first in both pregnancies asked to limit my hours to 12 hours a day. But when you think about that, that's a long day. But that's limited for an actor, especially an actress.

[David Duchovny]

If you're saying door to door, 12.

[Emily Deschanel]

Then it's not door to door, but arriving. But I mean, I have hair and makeup for an hour before we start filming. So it's like. And then you have an hour for lunch. I meant an hour from when I arrive. Whatever.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

So. Which is a long day in every regard. But it's a shorter day for, you know, TV series. So I asked for that. But then I had some complications with my second pregnancy. And so I limited to 10 hours a day. But I would go. I would go to my trailer and take a nap before I drove home because I'd be too tired to drive home a lot of Times.

[David Duchovny]

Foreign the Defender 110 is a vehicle made for the modern explorer. It's built with purpose and it's naturally capable and ready for expeditions. The Defender 110 has the endurance to take you further than you thought possible and you'll drive with on road presence and off road prowess. This is a vehicle that looks tough because it is tough. Its exterior is designed for optimum durability and the raised hood and sculpted grille give the Defender 110amodern edge. On the inside. It's ready for the whole crew with five seats and the option of expanding to seven. That's capability, meeting comfort and the tech is no joke. 3D surround cameras with clear sight ground view let you see underneath the vehicle. You can anticipate obstacles and rough terrain anything you encounter on your adventures, and Clearsight Rear View offers unobstructed views even when you can't see through the back window. Driver aid technologies also make driving and parking simpler, and the next generation infotainment system helps you make even more of your experience. You can also customize the driver display to match your needs and your journey. Design your Defender [e-mail].

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code and Moms First. I consider myself a pretty successful adult woman, so why is it that in midlife as I'm about to turn 50, I feel so stuck? Join me as I try to find the answer on my so called Midlife from Lemonada Media. I talk to experts and extraordinary guests about divorce, exercise, menopause, sex, drugs, and more to understand what we're going through and how to make the most of it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Erica Mahoney. You don't know me, but you know a version of my story. Because by now we've all felt the impact of senseless gun violence.

[David Duchovny]

I think a stray bullet flew past me because I hear the it was.

[Emily Deschanel]

That horrible feeling of dread.

[David Duchovny]

Something's wrong.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Four years ago my dad was killed in a mass shooting. My podcast Senseless is about moving forward after the unthinkable. Senseless from Lemonada Media, premiering June 17.

[David Duchovny]

Is this your handwriting?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, good. Your handwriting is good.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, it might be slightly better than yours, but it's not great.

[David Duchovny]

When was success a negative thing? I'm not.

[Emily Deschanel]

I don't know. That was a terrible question. I shouldn't have asked.

[David Duchovny]

I can't get rid of it because.

[Emily Deschanel]

It'S a bad question.

[David Duchovny]

You don't have to answer it.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's a good general question, but I, it's, you know, it's like on the spot, like say something funny and then you don't know what you're going to say. When was success? I feel, I mean, what kind of success? I mean, I certainly. It affected relationships, you know, I. The, like a boyfriend I had early on in Bones. Like, I don't think it was helpful really.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Your success.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You felt threatened by that or you were just so busy?

[Emily Deschanel]

Both, I think.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

And that's me guessing about certain things. But yeah, I think that it was both. You know, you, you also. It's like, I think, you know, that guy in particular thought I was like avoiding him. I'm like, I'm literally working non stop. When I'm not sleeping, I'm working. Like, there's just no time for me to see you like this. I'm not avoiding you. I am just trying to survive. So there was that. That was one thing that wasn't meant to be anyway. But yeah, it's probably.

[David Duchovny]

What about within the family? Was there any ever sibling rivalry or. Your mom's an actress, your dad's a director. I mean, like, everybody's kind of.

[Emily Deschanel]

I don't think there's any sibling rivalry where any. I don't think my sister was ever, you know, envious of me being on Bones. I don't think that was ever a thing. And we're pretty good. I mean, it's kind of weird to both be.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Actors. You have a sister, do you have other siblings?

[David Duchovny]

I have an older brother and a younger sister. And neither of them. None wanted to be actress. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I didn't start acting. I was like 26, 27.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Late, late.

[Emily Deschanel]

Other thing you got. You did.

[David Duchovny]

I was getting all those advanced degrees.

[Emily Deschanel]

Very educated.

[David Duchovny]

Overly degrees. Yeah.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, no, I think everyone's just, just my sister and I are so different too. Well, I think like maybe twice we auditioned for the same part.

[David Duchovny]

Really? Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

One time she got the part and I, I was really loving that part. It was really good part. But she's. She was the person. Right. For that part.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

And I don't know. So we're different enough that we don't really have that. Yeah, but.

[David Duchovny]

But you pull for each other.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm really so proud of her. I mean, I get, I mean, when she started New Girl too, I mean, I watched every episode of that show. It was hilarious. And I mean, I would get. I visited her on Set and get teary eyed. I was so proud of her. She's just so funny and good. She'd be improvising things and anyway. But yeah, okay. No, that was not. I'd say pretty much.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Okay. Okay. Oh, this is a card called stupid questions.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. I like stupid questions.

[David Duchovny]

Is it harder to get a fake honorary degree or a real one?

[Emily Deschanel]

I think it's harder to get a real one. For sure.

[David Duchovny]

You don't have to answer this one. This just makes me laugh. Is there failure?

[Emily Deschanel]

Is there failure?

[David Duchovny]

Is there a failure?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Or you say are you.

[David Duchovny]

That's the question.

[Emily Deschanel]

Are you positing the question of. Of that fail. What we think of failure is actually success. It's just a process.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. It's kind of just a short circuiting kind of a question. What did you forget today?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, I'll tell you. I didn't charge my car. Well, no, that's not true. I charged my car and it didn't. I didn't check it and so I had to take my husband's car and then charge it.

[David Duchovny]

Oh.

[Emily Deschanel]

On the way. So. But in terms of what I forget, I was thinking this is where I go to. Because I do have adhd and I for. I literally, literally forget things all the time. So I go to physical things that I forgot. But it could mean, what did I forget to bring up today?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Or it could mean in my world, it's more like. And this is too kind of self flagellating. But the idea is there's so many things I have to forget in order to just go on with my day, you know? Cause there's so much shit happening, like.

[Emily Deschanel]

Forgiving, forget and forgive.

[David Duchovny]

Forget that there's. That they're putting this draconian bill through Congress right now.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yes. 100%.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, every day we wake up and we have to forget a number of things in order to live our lives.

[Hart Hanson]

Yes.

[Emily Deschanel]

And sometimes it feels like even more and more these days.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you were talking about your anxiety, so.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That it was growing in the last six months. It's been, you know, that way. So it was, it was. It can be. It can mean that as well. And it's. I find it an interesting question to ask myself because, you know, we all have to be callous in a certain way. You know, we can't have compassion for the world. Every moment of our lives. It's paralyzing. So it was more.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah, you can't.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, it's. It can be over overwhelming and I think having Children. It actually can be helpful to me because you have to go on. You have to make sure that your kids know, hey, all these things in the world are happening, but we're gonna be okay.

[David Duchovny]

And they have to have their childhood, which is not involved in the budget and anything like that, nor should it be. It's, in a way, as much pain as those activities are bringing the world in general, they're not the reality of being a child, you know?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think my kids are probably growing up faster than they should.

[David Duchovny]

Well, that's the phone stuff. So I don't even get.

[Emily Deschanel]

They don't have phones.

[David Duchovny]

They will.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Eventually.

[David Duchovny]

You're gonna have John Wick on their phone before you know it. This is your handwriting. What have you learned from failure? What have I learned from failure? What have you learned?

[Emily Deschanel]

Sure. What have you learned from failure? I mean, I. I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

Well, what I like to think I learned is humility, vulnerability, enthusiasm. You know, that you can go on accountability, all the good things. Like nothing. Nothing from success. Success, you learn arrogance, complacency.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Paranoia. Don't want to lose this thing. Yeah, but failure makes you. I think it grows your brain, whereas success probably shrinks it.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I'm not a doctor. Maybe in your. Because you. Oh, Honorary doctorate. Perfect. Perfect. Honorary doctorate. People consider you an expert at. What do they consider you an expert at? I read that people consider you an expert.

[Hart Hanson]

What?

[Emily Deschanel]

Maybe they think I'm an expert on bones. Because of bones. I'm not an expert on bones.

[David Duchovny]

Did you ever take the gruesome work home with you? Was it weird to be hugely pregnant and looking at this gruesome stuff early.

[Emily Deschanel]

On, before I was ever pregnant? I feel like it took a toll a bit, dealing with death and murder. Cause not just.

[David Duchovny]

It did.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Even a lighthearted show like our show was never too dark. Keep trying and it doesn't work. Yeah, it was never dark, but it just. You know.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Dealing with murder, even fake murder.

[David Duchovny]

I never took that stuff home.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, you're good.

[David Duchovny]

I didn't. I never had nightmares. Never anything like that.

[Hart Hanson]

I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

Maybe I'm a psychopath. It's possible. What? Haven't you been asked that you always wish you'd been asked? No. I don't know. Forget that one. Stupid.

[Emily Deschanel]

Can I juggle?

[David Duchovny]

It was actually a stupid question.

[Emily Deschanel]

I can't.

[David Duchovny]

It was a stupid. Can you juggle?

[Emily Deschanel]

I have learned how to juggle, okay.

[David Duchovny]

Sometimes the hardest empathy is for ourselves. Who said that? Me.

[Emily Deschanel]

I don't think I Also, before I had to say that. I'm not sure if you call it empathy, if it's for yourself, it might just be self compassion. I do very well.

[David Duchovny]

This is one of the things I talked about with Peter Singer was empathy versus not verses necessarily, but empathy and compassion. And we kind of had this discussion. And he has felt this way in his work, where empathy is kind of an exhaustible resource in a way. Like to feel for one person and to feel for another person. Okay. Now I'm feeling for three people. And, like, it's getting. It's a lot.

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And compassion is more of a feeling that you can scale. Like, I can have compassion for many, many more people. It's less an emotion. You know, empathy is like this emotional outreach.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's exhausting.

[David Duchovny]

Right. Compassion is more. I don't know if I'm being clear on it, but we talk a lot about empathy these days, and I'd like to talk about compassion as well, because I think empathy scares people because it's exhausting. And you go, well, fuck, I can only take care of my little world, all I can do, because otherwise I'm going to get stressed out. And compassion is not like that. Compassion seems a little more logical, a little less emotional.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think that's true. And you're not. You don't have to. I mean, empathy means you're putting yourself in the other person's shoes. You are imagining yourself living. I mean, that's what we do as actors.

[David Duchovny]

That's what you said at bu.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. So. And I. I think I chose to speak about empathy because I think it relates to us as actors and what we do. And we have to basically have empathy for a character and then, you know, embody that character or at least give the illusion of embodying that character. Right. But compassion, I think, is more scalable, and I think it's also less exhausting and exhausting.

[David Duchovny]

It seems like it might lead to action as well. Empathy kind of leads to emotion, right?

[Hart Hanson]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Passion might lead to passion. Let's say. Talk about your podcast on the Bones rewatch.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. My friend Carla Gallo and I. I've worked with Carla. Yes, that's right. You worked with her on Californication. Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

She's great.

[Emily Deschanel]

She played like a porn star on that.

[David Duchovny]

Right. I think she was more in the Charlie Runkle world. Less. Less the Hank Moody world. But she's great. She's great.

[Emily Deschanel]

We became fast friends working on bones. She did 33 episodes of the show. She was never a series regular, but she was a recurring character and we became friends. And so we are doing a rewatch podcast of Bones called Bones.

[David Duchovny]

We are actually rewatching every episode.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes. And some of the times I'm just watching them for the first time because I had watched a certain amount, especially in the first season.

[David Duchovny]

But do you watch them together or you'll just go off and watch it yourself?

[Emily Deschanel]

On our own usually, but we have watched, we have watched together.

[David Duchovny]

What's, what's the experience like watching yourself from. How many years ago is this now?

[Emily Deschanel]

20 years.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. It's almost like home movies in a way, isn't it?

[Emily Deschanel]

It is. What, what I find. I actually, speaking of empath empathy and compassion, I have a lot more empathy for myself. Like when I would watch that before, my husband would call it hate watching. If I ever watch himself. I, I mean, I'm just, I hate it. I hate watching myself in, in everything you do. Yeah, everything.

[David Duchovny]

Fantastic. Sounds very healthy. No.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, good for you. Good for you.

[David Duchovny]

I don't, I mean, I sometimes hate myself so envious, but sometimes I kind of dig it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay.

[David Duchovny]

I'm like, yeah, that was good. That was good.

[Emily Deschanel]

I want to be like.

[David Duchovny]

What a delightful person Emily Deschanel is. She's very game and spontaneous and so I felt like it might be a good idea to try mixing up the interview style a bit for myself. And I really enjoyed that kind of ass backwards free flowing form and it really taught me something that we're going to get these, we're going to get to these places and I can let go of controlling it. I can let go of trying to get to the answer that I think is the answer and let the answer evolve. That surprises me and hopefully surprises Emily as well. Surprises us both. Thanks so much for listening to Fail Better. If you haven't yet, now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like my thoughts on conversations with guests including Alec Baldwin and Rob Lowe. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to low lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com Failbetter is production of Lemonada Media in coordination with King Baby. It is produced by Keegan Zema, Aria Brachi and Donnie Matias. Our engineer is Brian Castillo. Our SVP of weekly is Steve Nelson. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to Carl Ackerman, Tom Kupinsky and Brad Davidson. The show is exciting. Executive produced by Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and me, David Duchovny. The music is also by me and my band, the lovely Colin Lee, Pat McCusker, Mitch Stewart, Davis Rowan, and Sebastian Modak. You can find us online at Lemonada Media and you can find me at David Duchovny. Follow Fail Better wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey, I'm Nicole Norfleet.

[David Duchovny]

And I'm Erin Brown and we work at the Minnesota Star Tribune and we've.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Got a brand new show called Worth It.

[David Duchovny]

Every week we get together with a group of people who know Minnesota inside and out.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

We skip the Minnesota nights and get right to the good stuff. We share the stories and the happenings around the state. Worth your time and your money.

[David Duchovny]

Worth it from the Minnesota Star Tribune and Lemonada Media.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts.