EXCLUSIVE PEEK: Reflections on Gillian Anderson, Rosie O’Donnell, and more

Summary

Fail Better with David Duchovny – Episode: EXCLUSIVE PEEK: Reflections on Gillian Anderson, Rosie O’Donnell, and More

Release Date: February 4, 2025

In this exclusive episode of Fail Better, David Duchovny offers an intimate behind-the-scenes look at his podcast journey, reflecting on past interviews with influential figures like Gillian Anderson and Rosie O’Donnell. This deep dive not only revisits memorable conversations but also explores broader themes of failure, personal growth, and the societal fears surrounding them. Whether you're a longtime listener or new to the podcast, this summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, insightful reflections, and poignant conclusions.

---

Reflections on Past Interviews

Stephen Dubner

David begins by reminiscing about his interview with Stephen Dubner, co-author of Freakonomics. He shares his thoughts on the conversation, feeling more comfortable compared to previous interviews while still yearning to delve deeper into certain topics.

"I missed a couple of areas that I wanted to get into with Stephen... like, what role schadenfreude has to do with the popularity of such discussions?" ([05:28])

David grapples with the concept of schadenfreude—the pleasure derived from others' misfortunes—and whether this trait subtly influences the podcast's themes and its listeners' fascination with failure.

Rosie O’Donnell

Next, David reflects on his poignant interview with Rosie O’Donnell, where he challenged her to sit in silence for a full minute before diving into their discussion. This intense moment aimed to build trust and establish a deeper connection between host and guest.

"It was intense to look into another human being's eyes for a minute without words... my hope was that it would forge some kind of connection or trust." ([23:30])

He contemplates the effectiveness of such exercises, especially in a virtual setting, and muses about innovative interview techniques that could further enhance genuine interactions.

Gillian Anderson

Towards the end of the episode, David shares his thoughts from his conversation with Gillian Anderson. He fondly recounts brainstorming creative ideas, such as naming his band "Flavor Trust," inspired by a fan who works as a professional taster for soft drinks.

"The fourth album might be the Flavor Trust, because I just love that phrase... What does Trust taste like? Is a question that you'd have to ask." ([36:53])

This segment highlights David’s blend of humor and creativity, showcasing the unique dynamics between him and his guests.

---

Exploring Deep Themes

Fear and Acceptance of Failure

A central theme of the episode is the inherent fear of failure in human nature. David delves into why failure, despite being a common experience, is so stigmatized, especially in a high-achieving culture like America's.

"To be human is to fail – period. And not just to fail once, but to fail a lot." ([Description])

He references Samuel Beckett’s philosophy of "Fail again. Fail better," emphasizing the importance of embracing failure as a pathway to growth and resilience.

Schadenfreude and Societal Fascination with Failure

David revisits the idea of schadenfreude, questioning whether society’s enjoyment of witnessing others' failures contributes to the podcast’s appeal. He debates whether this trait undermines the potential for genuine empathy and support.

"There's something in our nature that takes a modicum of delight at other people's failures... I don't feel like that's a primary kind of impulse of mine." ([05:28])

Scarcity Mindset and its Impact on Success

The discussion shifts to the scarcity mindset, where David explores how a limited worldview—whether in resources or emotional capacity—can hinder personal success and foster feelings of inadequacy when witnessing others' achievements.

"In a worldview of scarcity, it's possible to think of other people's success as making it harder for you to succeed." ([05:31])

He reflects on how this mindset may stifle honest discourse and inhibit collective progress, urging a shift towards abundance and mutual support.

---

Personal Insights and Growth

Transforming Success and Failure

David shares his journey of reconciling personal achievements with the persistent fear of inadequacy. He talks about setting and reaching milestones, like completing 20 podcast episodes, and the ensuing pressure to continually achieve more.

"I set out to do 20 and now I've done it... It's something that I set out to do and now I've done it." ([17:13])

He candidly discusses the challenge of celebrating successes without succumbing to self-doubt, highlighting the delicate balance between ambition and self-compassion.

Gratitude as a Pathway to Healing

Towards the episode’s conclusion, gratitude emerges as a powerful tool for overcoming failure and fostering positive relationships. David emphasizes expressing gratitude as a means to transition from regret to appreciation, facilitating emotional healing and personal growth.

"Once you can say you're sorry or you regret or you could have done better, because once that's out, all that's left is gratitude." ([39:46])

He underscores gratitude’s role in building stronger connections and enhancing overall well-being, both personally and within the podcast community.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “I wanted Stephen, who's somebody who has done a lot of interviewing about failure... to understand how schadenfreude plays into our fascination with failure.” — David Duchovny ([05:28])

• “It was intense to look into another human being's eyes for a minute without words... my hope was that it would forge some kind of connection or trust.” — David Duchovny ([23:30])

• “Once you can say you're sorry or you regret or you could have done better, because once that's out, all that's left is gratitude.” — David Duchovny ([39:46])

• “Gratitude. Gratitude. Don’t make me spell it out for you. Gratitude.” — David Duchovny ([43:24])

---

Conclusion

In this reflective episode of Fail Better, David Duchovny not only revisits memorable interviews but also introspectively examines his own relationship with failure and success. By addressing profound themes such as schadenfreude, scarcity mindset, and the transformative power of gratitude, David provides listeners with valuable insights into overcoming the fear of failure. This episode serves as both a tribute to past guests and a roadmap for personal and collective growth, embodying the podcast’s mission to "fail better" and foster a community that learns and grows from every setback.

---

Stay Connected: To dive deeper into these reflections and gain access to exclusive bonus content, consider subscribing to Lemonada Premium. Continue your journey of embracing failure and achieving personal growth with Fail Better.

Transcript

[David Duchovny]

Guess what? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard right, 99%. If you don't think so, maybe it's time to face facts. You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card hi.

[Reshma Saujani]

I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code. Look, I'd consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. I've written books, founded two successful nonprofits, and I'm raising two incredible kids. But here's the thing. I still wake up wondering, is this it? And if the best years are yet to come, when's that going to start? Join me on My so Called Midlife, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, where we're building a playbook for navigating midlife one episode at a time. Each week, I'll chat with extraordinary guests who've transformed their midlife crisis into opportunities for growth and newfound purpose. At some point, we all ask ourselves, is there more to life? I'm here to discover how to thrive in my second act, right alongside you. My so Called Midlife is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

Lemonade.

Hey, Fail Better listeners We're going to be back next week with a new interview, but for this week I wanted to share something different with you. As you know, at the end of an episode you hear a little snippet of my thoughts from afterwards, usually a day or so after I've had time to sit with it and start to feel terrible about how I conducted the interview. And I share the full version of those freeform reflections with our premium subscribers every week. But today I wanted to give you all a chance to hear what those are like, and I figured why not give you a chance to hear about the guests that you've been listening to the most? That's right, these are all from Fan Favorite Interviews, some of our most listened to episodes. If you want to get these kinds of insights each week, click the link in the Show Notes to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. As added incentive, you'll also be able to get bonus content from all the other Lemonada shows when you subscribe. I'm starting with Stephen Dubner, who I'm realizing now was one of the first people I interviewed when I was green. Also, I'm not really sure how I got there, but I talk a little bit about cancel culture and why it worries me with kids in particular.

Just some thoughts after the Stephen Dubner podcast, which felt way more comfortable so far than the others, I feel settling into the job of interviewer rather than interviewee. But that's not for me to decide. I missed a couple of areas that I wanted to get into with Stephen. One was, and I don't know why, I'm coming back to a German word again, schadenfreude. I don't know about the pronunciation, but, you know, the delight in other people's distress, which the Germans have a word for, and we know it here in English speaking, wherever we are. It's bandied about quite a bit. And I guess I wanted Stephen, who's somebody who has done a lot of interviewing about failure, failed enterprises, mostly failed business ideas. And what I wanted to ask him is his stance is always, you know, releasing the shame around it, releasing inhibition around it, and therefore increasing innovation, increasing risk taking, which he feels is good for business, good for life. One would think if you're not terrified of failure, then you can take risks and be creative. But I wanted to ask what role schadenfreude has to do with the popularity of such discussions? You know, not just the releasing of shame, but actually the displaying of abject failure and how we like to look at that as we. As we rubberneck at car accidents and things like that. There's something in our nature, unfortunately, that takes a modicum of delight and maybe more than a modicum of delight at other people's failures. And I wonder if that's part of the appeal of this podcast. I don't think so. You know, I guess I'm as guilty as anyone sometimes of taking pleasure in somebody else's distress or failure. I don't feel like that's a. A primary kind of impulse of mine.

And I wouldn't want to contribute to.

It in any kind of major way. But I think I was raised in kind of a mindset of scarcity, and I think many of us were and are. And not just scarcity of resources for those of us that didn't grow up with a lot of money, but scarcity of love in a way. Like, there's not enough. There's not enough love out there to go around, not just material, but love as well. And in a world of scarcity.

In.

A worldview of scarcity, then it's possible to think of other people's success as making it harder for you to succeed. And that's another thing I want to investigate in this podcast is does someone else's success contribute to my failure, contribute to my feeling like a failure, you know, because it is. All, as Stephen does is reframing the narrative of success and failure. Reframing the definitions of success and failure. So those are things I want to get out in the open as well as. Like this. I woke up this morning with this idea, like, is failure? Does it feel contagious to people? When I got divorced, I found that there were some married couples that didn't want to hang around with a divorced guy. Not naming names, but, you know, there's a certain kind of contagious quality to deeply painful experiences that other people go through. You know, that people don't want to confront that in themselves. So maybe they don't go out of their way to avoid people that have experienced this thing that they're afraid of experiencing or that they dread experiencing. But I think it's a thing. The contagiousness of failure or the superstitious contagion of failure. Something to talk about at some point. I don't know with who, obviously, just with myself.

Yeesh.

I want to talk about Miss Lonely Heart. It's one of my favorite books by Nathaniel West. It's about an advice column guy who gets too involved with his readers. People that write in these horrifyingly sad letters to him. And I wonder how a person, let's say me, not even Dubner, but who's setting himself up as a confessor, confessor for failure. How do you keep from feeling too much? Or how do you keep from trying.

To make it light?

Because that's one of the things I was trying to draw out. A difference between myself and Stephen was this notion of how painful failure is. And there has to be grief around it. Not necessarily the business failures that he's mostly dealing with, but the emotional baggage of failure. I also wanted to talk a little about. This is a sticky subject, but I notice it with kids, my kids, definitely. If you're growing up in a.

In a.

In a kind of a cancel culture milieu, it inhibits honesty because you may have a. Not even an opinion, but you may.

Have a thought that you feel is.

Possibly offensive to someone, anyone. You're probably not going to say it, but then how will you be disabused of that notion? How can you then enter into an honest debate where what you're considering in your heart of hearts may be dark and you're yearning to at least speak that and have someone debate you out of it or prove you out of it, but you can't even take that risk to say it because you're afraid that you'll be judged, your character will be judged by an Opinion. And I think that's a scary place to be mostly because, you know, the public discourse becomes pre censored because we're afraid that just this one comment, oh, God, I'm not going to give an example because I'm afraid, right, one comment is going to be attached to you and that's it. That you're that thing. You're that thing that said that thing rather than, hey, oh, I had this idea, I don't feel great about it, throw it out there. Thank you for processing that with me. Thank you for proving me wrong. You know, that's the way bad ideas get killed in honest debate. But if you can't speak a bad idea out loud and it's going to harbor, you're going to harbor it, it's.

Going to fester.

It can't get disproven. You go back to Milton and Areopagitica.

Which is a treatise against censorship, where.

He basically says hundreds of years ago that we have to allow bad ideas to be spoken because that's how they're disemboweled.

That's how they're banished.

Good ideas are strong. They will, they will do well in the light and they will vanquish bad ideas in the light. And I see this, you know, mostly we see this in politics right now more than anything. Yeah.

Nothing funny today. It's raining.

That doesn't make it not funny, but maybe that's my mood. Wish I had something funnier for you.

I'm hearing my voice.

It just doesn't even sound like it.

Could get near the country of funny. Stopped at the border later.

This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. Everyone seems to know they're red flags these days, right? Those things that are cause for concern or even deal breakers in other people.

But what about the green flags?

Could you name what you are looking for as easily as what you're not? If you're not sure what that might be, therapy can help you figure it out. Whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or just working on yourself, it's time to form relationships that love you back. I always thought of therapy as a personal exercise, but it can also be incredibly useful for how you relate to other people. Therapy can help you set better boundaries as well as identify qualities and other people that you want around in the first place. BetterHelp in particular can be a great way to do that because it's completely online and super convenient. It serves over 5 million people worldwide and offers a diverse network of over 30,000 credentialed therapists with lots of different specialties, and you can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comfailbetter to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp hp.comfail better Are you still.

[David Duchovny]

Quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, the holiday season.

[Unknown]

Has wrapped up, thank God, which means kids are heading back to the classroom. That can be a blessing for some, and for others it can be a big challenge. And I'm not just talking about making up for lost time from vacation. Certain subjects are just fundamentally difficult for some kids, even in the best of circumstances. That would be math.

For me.

What might help is some supplemental instruction that fits into their lives. That's where IXL learning comes in. IXL is an online program for kids that covers math, language arts, science and social studies. IXL is designed to help them really understand and master topics in a fun way with positive feedback. Students who use IXL consistently see big improvements in their grades, and looking at studies conducted in nearly every state in the U.S. the results show that they score higher on tests too. This might have something to do with the fact that IXL is powered by advanced algorithms, giving specialized help to each kid. And here's the best part. IXL offers one subscription that covers everything from pre K through 12th grade. And the way it shakes out, A month of IXL can cost less than a single hour of tutoring. IXL is used in 95 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and fail. Better listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IEXCEL membership when they sign up [e-mail] failbetter Visit iexcel.com failbetter to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Next up, Rosie O'Donnell. This interview was famously the one where I asked her to sit with me in silence for a full minute. Now that's some radio right there. So it makes a lot of sense that my post interview thoughts were all about big abstract things like Psychology and power. And I also talk about how, even though Rosie likes to downplay her skills, I really think she's great and talented and has something that few people have. All right, good morning. Well, here we are.

This is the thoughts on the 20th episode that we recorded.

And 20 was the original order, and 20 was the original thought. Like, how can I get to 20? Jesus, that's a lot. And I just wanted to celebrate that, that we got to 20.

There will be more and.

I don't know, 20, 20, what is it? I've spent my so much of my life kind of.

Like, let's say it's.

An achievement to do 20 podcasts. I mean, it's not a huge deal or anything, but it's.

It's something.

It's something that I set out to.

Do and now I've done it.

And so much of my life, I've gone without celebrating any kind of achievement. I don't like using that word. Makes it sound crass in a way, but commitment. I said I was gonna do 20, I did 20. And then the initial thought after that is like, well, where's the next 20?

Or, where's the next project?

Or that's not good enough, or podcasts, that's not good enough. You know, you gotta do more and more. And it's kind of speaking to my situating myself inside a podcast about failure, that I can take even a success, like having done 20 and turn it into a goad on myself, turn it into something that makes me feel less than. Or what's next? What's next? What's next? Jesus.

Get well soon, David.

You know, it's like that. My friend Jason always like, get well soon. You know, am I learning? Am I learning through this podcast? I think so. I'm definitely getting different perspectives. The question is, is it sinking in? That's always the question with us as humans, isn't it? We become habituated in some kind of way of being, and then, you know, we see that it's not healthy for us to be that way, and we. We try to change. We grasp onto things that will help us change.

And I think doing this podcast was.

A way, in a way to.

Try.

To change myself through. Through these discussions of failures and. And I feel slightly changed. Maybe it's going to take 20 more. Maybe it's going to take 20, 000 more. That seems more likely. But I guess that's where I'm sitting today after 20. You know, it wasn't. That wasn't the only itch that this was Scratching the podcast. It's, you know, I. I'd had times in my life where I was like, yeah, I'd like to do a talk show. I'd like to do a talk show. And I guess this was part of that, too. This is part of that, too. I can't read my own handwriting. I had, like, little notes like, what.

Do I want to talk about?

The post, Rosie stuff, you know, we.

Didn'T get to, is.

How much work Rosie does for other people, how much charity she's done, how much money she's given away. And I think that's important, you know, and obviously, a podcast interview is not an advertisement for a person. It's a discussion. But I think I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that fact about Rosie, what a generous, concerned person she is, living in the real world. A couple things I've been thinking about. I was into this therapist nobody ever met. But when I was in college, there was this French therapist named Jacques Lacan who was kind of famous at the time. And he just had a very weird approach to therapy. You might call it anti Freudian, but I remember reading about one session where it was called, like, the 15 second session, and basically the patient would come in and sit down and start talking about, you know, their work or their life or their dream. And after 15 seconds, Lacan would say, okay, that's it, that's enough. See you next week. Same charge.

You know, whatever he charged for the.

Hour, he charged for the 15 seconds. And what I got from that was that he was saying that he was in control of this situation, that he was the one who was going to get to the unconscious, he was going to uncover the problems. And you coming in all energized, thinking that, you know, what you want to talk about or what you want to talk about is interesting. No, no, he was going to stifle that, because that was just the same old bullshit, same old dodge. You know, as you get into therapy and as you're, you know, you realize you're in a situation where you're going to try to uncover the truth. The verbal diarrhea starts and, like, I'm going to get it, I'm going to talk around it, I'm going to get to it. And the, the mentor, the doctor says, nope, nope, not interested in what you think is important. What you think is important is unimportant. And what you think is unimportant is actually important. Sometimes I think about doing the 15 second podcast. You know, just get a Guest going, oh, here, I got a subject that's interesting and I'm going to give you my rap. And after 15 seconds, I go, hey, thanks, that was wonderful. And now we're going to listen to 45 minutes of commercials. How would that go over? I have a feeling how that would go over what I did with Rosie. Not that I wanted to do that.

It feels aggressive and hostile.

I know what I did with Rosie was I sat for a minute, I asked, let's just sit with eye contact. Let's just sit staring at one another for a minute before we, before we get into the discussion. And we did that. And it was. It's intense. It's intense to look into another human being's eyes for a minute without looking away, without words, without cover, without dodges, the dodges of words. And my hope, when I asked to do that was that, like, it would forge some kind of connection or a trust or something. And who knows, maybe it did. It's. It's hard to do that over zoom, right? I wonder if I can hold eye contact over zoom. And it's not like the stare down before a fight, you know, because this isn't adversarial, even though there's always the sense of. In which, oh, I hope I don't say something that I'm going to regret when you're being interviewed. So maybe it was like an antidote to that adversarial stare down. Another thing I thought I heard again, with martial arts, there was this tradition where the two opponents, before they fought, would sit down and have a conversation with one another for a few minutes, but neither of the fighters was allowed to use the word I. And I wonder if we could do a podcast where neither participants can use the word I. I wonder what that conversation would feel like, would sound like, you know, you're not talking about yourself. I mean, that's literally what you cannot do. You cannot use the word I. So maybe in the next 20, that'll come up too.

Yeah.

But Rosie was fantastic.

Very, very present smart. You know, there's a reason why she has done what she's done. And this is what we, we talked about is like, you know, she says, oh, I was on Broadway. And they were better, better this, better that. And we talked about it, you know, it as the thing you chase through art, but also, you know, a person having it. And it's, it's a weird thing. I guess they call it Riz now, charisma, Whatever the itness of it all. Is it God given? Is it just Something that some people have. Where does it come from? What is it? What is it? It's a. I'm sure books have been written about it, trying to figure it out. It's just something that happens in a person's soul or it's something you just come in with, who knows? But Rosie has it and it was interesting to talk to her about that because she actually explicitly writes about it in that book, the celebrity detox book, where she's chasing it. And to her, it is that moment of presence, that moment of transcendence, that moment where something happens. You say something, you tell a joke, you know, you make a connection that wasn't planned and had never been there before. And it's a. It's a real beautiful thing. And actors chase it, musicians chase it with live performance, poets chase it, writers chase it. And so there's two It's. There's the it out there, which is when something happens, the chaos comes through, the mistake that is more interesting than the perfectly executed jump shines through. And then there's the it and the person that makes you want to listen to them, look at them, connect with them. And maybe it's the same it. Freud called it the ID too, which translates into the it which we have come to think of as, you know, the instincts, the sexual instinct, the death instinct. You know, the thing that can't be tamed is the id, or German or Latin for the it. Literally, it's like ego, superego. And it, it's kind of funny to think about the thing that holds the instincts, the thing that can't be tamed is it. Not cousin it, but it.

Every new year, we set all sorts of big goals. But, and I didn't know this, only 8% of people will stick with those resolutions the whole year. 8%. I was definitely one of those people when I tried to cut out sugar. But with Acorns, as long as you can keep up that new year momentum for, say, five minutes, you can lock in years and years of healthy money habits. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, your kids, and your retirement. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. Saving money is paramount for a lot of people. Money is never a certain thing and I think it's important that Acorns offers the kind of support it does. They offer you small steps to take and a lot of options based on your goals and needs. Then they take care of the rest. Head to acorns.com failbetter or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View important [e-mail] failbetter start the new.

Year with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market. Supercharge your routine with low prices on no antibiotics ever. Favorites like boneless skinless chicken breasts and ground beef, plus a rainbow of organic produce including green beans, blueberries, cherry tomatoes and more. No sale needed to save. Just look for the yellow low price signs or the $3.65 by Whole Foods Market logo. Shop Whole Foods Market in store and online.

[David Duchovny]

This is an ad from BetterHelp online therapy when it comes to relationships, we often hear about the red flags we should avoid. But it's just as important to focus on the green flags. Think about how you want a relationship to feel, one where your boundaries are respected and you're encouraged to be your best self. If you're not sure what that looks like, therapy can help you identify and actively practice those qualities. So you can embody the green flag energy yourself and find it in others. Because whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or working on yourself, it's time to form relationships that love you back. Better Help was super helpful on my therapy journey. It connects you to a diverse network of over 30,000 therapists worldwide with expertise in a wide range of issues from depression and anxiety to work and relationships. It's 100% online and sign up only takes a few minutes. Find your green flag energy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com.

[Unknown]

To finish things off, I'm going to leave you with my bonus thoughts from my conversation with Gillian Anderson. Wasn't quite sure how that conversation was going to go. I was happy that we got to do it in person and it felt like a felt like a really kind of warm and honest reconnecting after a few years of not having seen one another. So here are those thoughts from my conversation with Gillian.

Okay, out there in podcast land, just trying to get some Thoughts down. After having a very emotional, I felt and satisfying discussion with, with Gillian Anderson a couple days ago, what did I want to go into about that? Ah, something I forgot to tell her was, you know, because she has this soft drink.

I don't know if you call it.

A soft drink though, because it's supposed.

To be good for you.

Soft drink sounds like it's a soda. But a soft drink literally is just a drink that doesn't have alcohol in it. So let's say it's a soft drink. These G Spot drinks. One of the. I didn't, I didn't remember to tell her. I'm always looking for a name for my band because it's just at this point it's David Duchovny. It's been that way. I've got a fourth album coming out soon and you know, my band is, it's, we're one. You know, it's not just me and the players. It's like we're a functioning band now and we, we write together, you know, it's like an entity. And I always thought we should come up with a name and my favorite name. Recently there's been lots of names. There's a whole sub genre of naming rock bands, isn't there? My favorite name comes from an experience I had doing some press. Okay, here's what happened was I was getting something out some project and they were kind of auctioning off 10 minute zooms for maybe this was charity. I don't know what it was. But anyway, they were auctioning off 10 minute zooms and so I was doing a series of 10 minute zooms with fans or, or people who wanted to do a 10 minute zoom with me. And one of them. And of course, you know, I'm way more interested in. I'm not interested in me. You know, people are going to ask me questions, but I'm interested like, hey.

You on the other side of the.

Zoom, who I've never met, what do you do? What brings you here? And this one woman was, she was a professional taster and I didn't even know this thing existed. You know, this is because she had perfect taste and I didn't know that existed. So there's a thing where you have like perfect taste. You can identify, I guess, like having perfect pitch, but it's with taste. So these people are coveted in the food and beverage industry for obvious reasons. They have perfect taste. So this woman had perfect taste. And I was like, how do you know? I guess there's a test, some kind of Test you can take. I'm sure I don't have perfect taste, clearly. But anyway, so this woman had perfect. My mind is already blown, and I'm.

Like, wow, this is like a whole.

Other world of knowledge I didn't even know about. And she said, yeah, I work for a soft drink company, whatever that company was. And not only was she a taster of soft drinks, but she was in possession of one of the proprietary flavors. And the way I remember it, I could be making this up, but the way I remember it is not everybody. Very few people know the exact recipe for this proprietary drink. So special, so hidden, so secret, that they can't all get on planes at the same time. You know, it's like they gotta make sure that this recipe survives. And not all of them have the whole recipe. Some of them have just a few of the ingredients. And never will you have all those people, like, they can't be all in the White House at the same time unless it gets bombed. And I thought this was hysterically funny and wonderful. But then she said, there's.

These people are called the Flavor Trust.

And that was the name of the band that I wanted, so I may still call them. The fourth album might be the Flavor Trust, because I just love that phrase, the Flavor Trust. What does Trust taste like? Is a question that you'd have to ask. But also, like, this is like the boardroom. Yes, we're the Flavor Trust. Something very officious about this most sensual of things. And anyway, I missed having that discussion with Jillian where I. I told her all I knew about perfect taste and tasters and flavor Trust, because we did talk about, like, the creation of this drink and her going in and smelling and tasting and, you know, jiggering with the formulas and the. And then the ingredients and trying to get the perfect thing down.

So.

So there's a miss, there's a fail. But here we are talking about it now, maybe when she comes back, we'll. We'll talk about the Flavor Trust, but I'm more serious. And more spiritual tips. The other thing, I got a real.

Problem coming out off of my podcast.

With Jason McGay and now with Jillian. These are two people that I have long histories with.

Personal.

Personal histories going back. Going back 30 years in Jillian's case. Now.

Is that right?

Yeah, almost 30 years. So I got a real be in my bonnet about performative friendship. You know where I see. Call me an old fuddy duddy, go ahead, but I see folks on Instagram or whatever displaying their friendship. It's Very. It's very. Especially celebrity friendship. Displaying celebrity friendship. And it's very.

My flavor.

Trust doesn't like that. That doesn't hit my taste buds. Well, it tastes like hypocrisy and bullshit. And look at me. So I'm very. In these two cases with. With Jillian and with Jason a couple weeks ago, I'm very. I'm watching myself, you know, like, I don't want to perform this friendship because the friendship is what's important, not the performance of the friendship. Much like, you know, the past few years, we've all talked about, like, on social media, the performance of virtue, virtual signaling, all that. I didn't want to signal a friendship, you know, but there I am, you know, asking her on the podcast. So I guess I'm guilty a little bit. But I wanted to handle it in a way that wasn't performative. And we get into it, you know, it's the failure.

My failure.

I can only speak for myself. My failure of, you know, I guess being number one on the call sheet and not making sure everybody was okay. Everybody in this case being her not being as good of a team player, not getting as good of a human being as I know that I can and should be, especially knowing what I knew she must have been going through, because I was going through something similar with the explosion of that show. So aside from being, I think, an interesting thing to talk about, it's very. Not therapeutic, but it's nice for me to be able to say I'm sorry or I regret or I could have done better, because once that's out, all that's left is gratitude, and that's the best place to be. So whether or not, I mean, I know that I did the best that I could. Whether or not that was good enough, we'll never know. But it's. It's. It's. It's a lot to. To dance around, you know, without getting into specifics. Right. But I. I think that we. We managed to do that. We managed to kind of cop to our part in a dysfunctional relationship that we had as co workers, you know.

Back in the day.

And I think that's cool. I also think, you know, there's all this hokum you hear about, oh, it's like a family, this show's like a family, this movie was like a family. And that's true. But what happens is a lot of the times, people in life, I would say all the time until you get wise, is you recreate your family situation in other situations, in other social situations and other family type situations, let's say.

That'S a show this time or a movie, whatever.

And especially when you're younger and if you're not careful, you're going to recreate certain dysfunctions in the new family, in the working family. And I think this can kind of speak to all different kinds of businesses, every kind of business in the world. So I think this is probably a good, valid point to make right now, is once you start to cop to the failure of the way you've handled this new relationship, not the failure, but the failings.

Then you can start to.

See clearly clearer how you are recreating.

Certain family situationships in your business life, in your social life, in your life.

And I think we both kind of touched upon that in a way that.

I thought was.

Liberating in a way.

You know, me talking about my, my mother, my father, her talking about her parents and I really appreciate her candor on that.

Yeah, Gratitude. Gratitude.

Don'T make me spell it out for you.

Gratitude.

That's all for now. We'll see you next week with a brand new interview. Take care.

There's more Fail Better with Lemonada Premium.

Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content.

Like like more of my behind the.

Scenes thoughts on this episode.

Subscribe now and Apple Podcasts.

Fail Better is production of Lemonada Media.

In coordination with King Baby. It is produced by Keegan Zema, Aria Brachi and Donnie Matias. Our engineer is Brian Castillo. Our SVP of weekly is Steve Nelson. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to Carl Ackerman, Tom Krupinski and Brad Davidson. The show is exciting. Executive produced by Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and me, David Duchovny. The music is also by me and my band, the lovely Colin Lee, Pat McCusker, Mitch Stewart, Davis Rowland and Sebastian Modak. You can find us online at lemonada Media and you can find me at David Duchovny. Follow Fail Better wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

Hi everyone. Gloria Rivera here. And we are back for another season of no One Is Coming to Save Us, a podcast about America's childcare crisis. This season we're delving deep into five critical issues facing our country through the lens of child care, poverty, mental health, housing, climate change and the public school system. By exploring these connections, we aim to highlight that childcare is not an isolated issue, but one that influences all facets of American life. Season four of no One Is Coming to Save Us is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.