Fail Again: A Forensic Analysis with Emily Deschanel

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fail Better with David Duchovny

Episode: Fail Again: A Forensic Analysis with Emily Deschanel

Release Date: December 30, 2025

Host: David Duchovny

Guest: Emily Deschanel

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Episode Overview

This candid, free-flowing conversation between David Duchovny and actress Emily Deschanel explores how failure, shame, and imperfection are not obstacles to be avoided but integral parts of growth and artistic life. Drawing on Deschanel’s twelve seasons starring in “Bones,” her advocacy for herself, and her experiences as a parent and person with ADHD/dyslexia, the episode highlights how we can “fail better”—and why vulnerability is both difficult and essential. The episode also playfully experiments with an unscripted, shuffled-interview style using index cards with random prompts, reflecting the show’s embrace of unpredictability and imperfection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Diagnosis & Learning Differences (02:55–06:17)

• Emily’s diagnosis: Diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia at age 11. She reflects on the rarity of such diagnoses for girls at the time.

  “I think a lot of people my age did not get diagnosed, especially girls...”—Emily (03:00)

• Transient childhood: Her father’s career as a cinematographer meant frequent moves (Los Angeles, San Francisco, Louisiana, Seychelles, London), leading to educational inconsistency that masked learning challenges.

  “You don’t have the consistency of being at the same school where people realize, you know, something’s going on.” —Emily (04:22)

• First real support: The American School in London identified her dyslexia and provided special reading instruction.
• ADHD’s daily impact: She notes her ADHD is more of a current challenge than dyslexia; she prefers audiobooks but struggles with auditory processing.

2. The Challenge of Memorization & Technical Dialogue (06:17–09:25)

• Learning technical lines on 'Bones': Memorizing complex scientific dialogue was “a challenge,” especially first season, complicated by learning differences.
• Production agreement: On “Bones,” actors only received scripts in advance—no late-night revisions. In return, actors promised not to request last-minute rewrites (07:03).

  “We kind of had a mutual agreement, which is kind of unheard of in TV.” —Emily (07:35)

• Methods for learning: Duchovny and Deschanel compare approaches: Duchovny internalizes lines silently; Deschanel must say them aloud, especially scientific terminology.

  “You have to get your mouth around them. So that's shocking that you don't have to say them out loud.”—Emily (09:25)

• System & adaptation: Emily received help to run lines; over time, she built strategies to cope.

3. On Control, Perfectionism, and Embracing Mistakes (13:42–16:15)

• Letting go of control: Duchovny discusses desires to “do things well” and how this urge for control can stifle magic and spontaneity in acting and in life.

  “I’m trying to let a little magic...or mistake in or something fucked up. So you’re going to be the guinea pig.” —David (14:16)

• Freedom in failure: Emily shares how her favorite acting teacher, Bill Young, once bluntly told her a performance was “shitty,” which paradoxically was liberating.

  “I loved him so much more in that moment...it freed me up.” —Emily (16:14)

• Muscling through vs. self-trust: Despite appreciating honest feedback, she confesses a tendency to “muscle my way through” by over-preparing—reading countless parenting books, meditating, etc.

4. Vulnerability, Shame, and Setbacks on 'Bones' (26:03–40:14)

• Early days were overwhelming: First season, Emily was overwhelmed by workload and memorization, feeling visible pressure from the crew to get lines right.

  “I would go home and just cry in a bathtub every night. I was just so overwhelmed.” —Emily (26:32)

• Panic attacks & shame: Unable to remember lines, she experienced tunnel vision and near panic attacks on set (28:00).
• Studio feedback: The showrunner, Hart Hanson, delivered devastating studio feedback that she was “late and unprepared.” She describes the emotional impact and shame.

  “It was like, you are unprofessional...I'm an actor, I'm an emotional person. So I was just beside myself.”—Emily (36:34, 38:30)

• Support & adaptation: Afterward, she received support learning lines, more downtime, and a bigger trailer. Eventually, cast and crew adapted to make workloads more sustainable.
• Work ethic & misunderstanding: The accusation of unprofessionalism was particularly hurtful because it didn’t reflect her values or work ethic, inherited from her father.

5. Anxiety & Parenting in a Changing World (43:32–47:48)

• Persistent anxiety: Emily discusses how anxiety “got smaller and smaller” on set but is now intense in her personal life as a parent.

  “For me as an actor, I got smaller and smaller [anxieties]. For me now as a person, I feel like my anxiety...has been insane.” —Emily (43:18)

• Raising boys: She shares concerns about raising sons in a complex culture (“boys need their moms, but they hate that they need them”).
• Balancing career & motherhood: Filming while pregnant, she was given more time off (thanks to Hart Hanson’s Canadian approach) and experienced working motherhood's challenges.

6. Success and Its Complications (51:43–54:45)

• When success hurts: Emily reflects on success complicating relationships—past partners felt threatened, and her time was consumed by work.

  “That guy in particular thought I was like avoiding. I'm like I'm literally working non-stop...I'm just trying to survive.” —Emily (52:23)

• Family dynamics: No sibling rivalry with her sister Zooey Deschanel; both support each other’s achievements.

7. The Value of Failure

• Learning from failure: Both agree that failure imparts humility, vulnerability, accountability—while success can breed complacency.

  “Nothing from success. Success you learn arrogance, complacency...But failure...grows your brain.” —David (57:50)

• Empathy vs. Compassion: They discuss Peter Singer’s distinction that empathy is emotionally taxing and finite, while compassion is more scalable and actionable.

  “Empathy is like this emotional outreach...compassion seems more logical, a little less emotional.” —David (60:43)

8. The “Boneheads” Podcast & Self-Reflection (62:11–63:55)

• Bones rewatch: Emily and co-star Carla Gallo host “Boneheads,” a “Bones” rewatch podcast.
• Watching old work: Emily now feels empathy for her younger self: “When I would watch that before, my husband would call it hate-watching...I hate it. I hate watching myself...But now I have a lot more empathy for myself.”
• David’s take: Duchovny admits he sometimes enjoys watching himself.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I went to a million different schools.” —Emily (03:50)
• “You have to get your mouth around [scientific words].” —Emily (09:25)
• “I want things to be controlled...If I can just do this one thing...then it will be good.” —Emily (14:22)
• “Getting it wrong can be so much more interesting.” —David (15:00)
• “That was shitty.” —Emily, quoting her acting teacher Bill Young (16:14)
• “I would go home and just cry in a bathtub every night.” —Emily (26:32)
• “The studio is concerned about your work...they said that I was late and unprepared.” —Emily (36:33)
• “It was like, you are unprofessional....I'm an actor, I'm an emotional person. So I was just beside myself.”—Emily (36:53–38:30)
• “Empathy is like this emotional outreach...compassion seems more logical.”—David (60:43)
• “Failure makes you…I think it grows your brain; success probably shrinks it.” —David (58:12)

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Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• 03:06–05:17: Emily’s transient childhood and first experience getting support for dyslexia
• 07:03–07:57: Unique actor-writer agreement on “Bones” (no last-minute script changes)
• 14:16–15:10: Duchovny’s theory on inviting mistakes into creative process
• 16:14–17:46: Emily's liberating experience with blunt acting feedback
• 26:32–38:30: Emily’s vulnerable recounting of panic, shame, and support during “Bones” season one
• 43:18–47:36: Honest discussion of anxiety as a parent and changing cultural concerns for boys
• 57:50–58:12: Discussion on what failure teaches vs. what success teaches
• 62:23–63:24: Emily’s evolving feelings about watching herself act (“hate-watching” becoming empathy)

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------| | 02:55 | Emily’s diagnosis and early challenges | | 06:17 | Technical dialogue and memorization | | 14:16 | Control vs. letting failure in | | 16:14 | Impact of blunt feedback in acting | | 26:32 | Anxiety, shame, and panic attacks on set| | 36:33 | Studio confrontation and aftermath | | 43:18 | Anxiety as a parent, cultural pressures | | 47:48 | Balancing work, pregnancy & motherhood | | 51:43 | Success’s downsides | | 57:45–58:27 | Learning from failure | | 60:43 | Empathy vs. compassion | | 62:11 | “Boneheads” podcast and reflection |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is intimate, honest, and self-deprecating, full of in-jokes and mutual understanding between two seasoned actors. Both host and guest openly discuss vulnerability, anxiety, artistic process, parenting, and industry pressures, with humor, humility, and warmth. Duchovny’s improvisational experiment (shuffling index cards for questions) provides spontaneity, reinforcing the show’s message that letting go and “failing better” is both productive and freeing.

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Conclusion

This episode is a meaningful exploration of what it means to “fail better.” The candid exchange between Duchovny and Deschanel, punctuated by personal anecdotes, moments of self-doubt, and empathetic reflection—reminds us all that imperfection shapes not only artists but everyone. “Getting it wrong” is where the learning, the magic, and the humanity happen.

Transcript

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[Emily Deschanel]

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[Emily Deschanel]

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[David Duchovny]

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[Emily Deschanel]

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[David Duchovny]

I'm David Duchovny and this is Fail Better, a show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Emily Deschanel is an actor who spent more than a decade of her life playing the brilliant and blunt Dr. Temperance Brennan on the hit Fox series Bones. The show was one of the most widely recognized crime dramas of all time and remains a popular comfort watch today. Emily currently co hosts a rewatch podcast called Boneheads. The critically acclaimed show is loosely based on the novels and career of forensic anthropologist and author Kathy Reichsman. It's often credited for helping inspire women to pursue STEM careers, which was rare to see on TV at the time. Emily grew up a theater kid in a family full of stars. I remember working with her dad Caleb, who was a highly respected cinematographer, but I worked with him as a director on Twin Peaks and one of my very first projects that I did. We talk about the success of a 12 season run plus how she advocated for herself and navigated parenting through it. Here's our conversation. When were you diagnosed with ADHD and or dyslexia and dyslexia?

[Emily Deschanel]

I think I was 11.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, that's young.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I Think a lot of people my age did not get diagnosed, especially girls did not get diagnosed. Anyways, we don't need to talk about that, but.

[David Duchovny]

No, we do. This is very interesting. My mother was a first grade teacher, second grade teacher. My sister is a grade school teacher. I come from a family of people that taught younger people how to read.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So my mother was a very. My mother began teaching in like 1975. 76. Around then. And that was before I think they knew what dyslexia was, but it was before it was frequently diagnosed. Usually kids would get left behind if they were dyslexia because they just didn't seem to be keeping up with the other students. But my mother was a big champion of kids who had trouble learning to read. And she would come up with all different kinds of schemes to reach different kids, because not everybody learns the same way. Was that your experience?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. I mean, I went to a million different schools. So even in Los Angeles.

[David Duchovny]

That seems like an exaggeration to me. I just have to say. I don't want you to.

[Emily Deschanel]

Every day I would change halfway through. I went to a different school. I drive to another town every day. No, it was probably like seven or something. Wait, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. For elementary.

[David Duchovny]

This was all in LA?

[Emily Deschanel]

No, no, I was in San Francisco, Louisiana, off the coast of Africa and the Seychelles, and then in London.

[David Duchovny]

Is that because your dad was shooting something in Africa?

[Emily Deschanel]

So I think it's also. You don't have the consistency of being at the same school where people realize, you know, something's going on.

[David Duchovny]

Right. They get to know you in depth. They don't.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, they're kind. I mean, I was halfway through some years. I probably, in part because I was dealing with that. I went to one. I went to a Catholic school. My mom took me out halfway through a year. It was kind of dramatic when you think back. Dramatic, yeah. But I think they were pretty strict and they didn't get me. But yeah, my memory serves. It was the American school in London that I just met someone who went there. Um, lots of people. Kathleen Turner went there. Cause I worked with her and we realized. We both went there. Great school in London, they realized and they had me tested. And then they had support for reading. And I went to, like, the special reading class.

[David Duchovny]

How does your dyslexia appear to you? You just flip letters now.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's pretty. I'm fairly minor. I think my adhd, I experience much more in my daily life now. I think the dyslexia I'm sure there's, it takes me a lot longer to read things, but, and I like listening to things on tape. A lot of times if I'm reading a book.

[David Duchovny]

So you. Auditory processing.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I don't, I'm not good with auditory, I mean, according to the testing, really, I do not do well with auditory process, but I, for whatever reason, I prefer it.

[David Duchovny]

You know, I know that on Bones you had, you know, reams of technical dialogue and stuff that must have been actually your nightmare come true. When I think of you now as a reader and as somebody who's trying to not put the, or whatever, you know, these long words that could easily, because you don't know them, could easily flip letters around. It would sound exactly the same to you.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I mean, it was a challenge. The first season was the most challenging to me. I mean, you've been on first seasons of shows. It's insane already. Yeah, I, I mean, I would say that I once I figured out a system once I, you know, I, I, they gave me someone to help me run lines.

[David Duchovny]

So when you're, this is interesting because I'm, I'm about to go do a couple jobs and I'm, I'm, you know, I like to memorize my shit like way in advance and then forget it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

If I can.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Like that's my, my ultimate, I mean, in television. Impossible.

[Emily Deschanel]

You can't do it.

[David Duchovny]

Impossible. So the night before you're getting the, the second salmon goldenrod revisions and you're like, holy shit, there's a monologue here that explains the entire show.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right, right. And this is really important and I gotta, gotta memorize it. We didn't have Late Night almost never on Bones. That was the agreement. Hart Hampson, who you are, he all said, we won't give you something last minute, 24 hours kind of thing. And you agreed to not do that to us either. Like we won't as actors come to them and say, hey, this scene isn't working for me. Can you change something about it? And so we kind of had a mutual agreement, which is kind of unheard of in tv.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, that is unheard of.

[Emily Deschanel]

So we didn't have that. But I couldn't, I realized I had done jobs before doing Bones where I would learn my lines in advance. You know, this, I had, I learned, I had to learn them the day before and somehow I would just, the last ones would go outta my mind and I would learn the new lines and.

[David Duchovny]

Well, it's very muscular at that point. I think the brain just adapts to that kind of a thing. But I'm realizing, you know, when I'm memorizing these things for jobs coming up, I never speak the words out loud until I get to set.

[Emily Deschanel]

Whoa.

[David Duchovny]

I don't learn them out loud. And in fact, I don't process them well as memory. If I speak them out loud, that's blowing my mind. I just look at them and look at them and look at them and look at them.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I think David Boreanas is probably like that. Cause he could look at a page and just be like. He'd also. He'd played a character when we were working together that very much didn't have to say the words verbatim. My character spoke in a very specific way, and I had to say them exactly as written.

[David Duchovny]

You were speaking science.

[Emily Deschanel]

I was speaking science. I also came from play. Cause I was. I went to, you know, conservatory, where playwright is king. You.

[David Duchovny]

This was Shakespeare.

[Emily Deschanel]

We were doing Shakespeare. We're doing Chekhov. We're doing Ibsen. So. So we. You know, I would not ever ask to change things. And especially playing Brennan, the lines were as written, but Dave Vorianis could just look and then do the scene. He spent time looking at them, too. I don't mean to minimize.

[David Duchovny]

I'm sure he looked at it at home beforehand.

[Emily Deschanel]

Absolutely. But I think, like, in a pinch, he could do that where he'd look at it and be able to do the scene. But no, I can't imagine. Because I also. Well, I guess also, I'm thinking of. Most of my career has been playing the scientist. So I have to get my mouth around the words.

[David Duchovny]

Yes, I know.

[Emily Deschanel]

So, like, you know, if you have to say, you know, epiphyseal fusion or zygomatic arch or.

[David Duchovny]

I was just saying that the other day.

[Emily Deschanel]

It just comes up in conversation all the time. It just comes up in conversation. So you have to get your mouth. I have to get my mouth around them. So that's shocking that you don't have to say them out loud.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. I don't know. It's weird. I also have this very. I have a very. And I'm trying to deal with it my entire career is. I just. When we were talking here beforehand, I want it to be rolling because I want the first time. I always want the first time. So I don't want. I don't want it to be going over it. I don't even like to rehearse before we shoot. I like to rehearse a month ago. Right, Whatever. But when we're here. I like to let the lightning in a bottle try to happen.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, I hear that.

[David Duchovny]

And of course, you know, you can do that on film because you can make a mistake. It's okay. You can just go again. What I. What I wanted to do.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yeah, your experiment or whatever you want. Oh, no, no.

[David Duchovny]

It's an experiment because you're an actor. And I thought. Do you know the story? Like when. When Marlon Brando did Last Time I Go in Paris, when he did the. He had a. He has a famous monologue. His wife has died, Right. And he's found out that she's been having an affair with the landlord. And he's heartbroken because she's dead. And he's heartbroken because she's been unfaithful to him. And he does this incredibly interesting monologue.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

To her corpse. The actress is lying there in the scene.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm like, trying to remember if I've seen that movie.

[David Duchovny]

You don't have to have seen it.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I saw it. It was a very long time ago.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, not when you were a kid. You didn't see this when you were a kid.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm hoping maybe teenager, funny.

[David Duchovny]

So Bertolucci, who I believe is the director, he had this long oner shot that he wanted to do it in, and Brando apparently showed up. Not exactly word perfect, didn't he?

[Emily Deschanel]

He would get the lines in his.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, eventually.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. This was younger.

[David Duchovny]

But here's the genius of Brando in this particular instance is he said, apparently could be an apocryphal story. He said, write my monologue on big cue cards like Saturday Night Live or whatever. He didn't say Saturday Night Live because it didn't exist yet. But he had his monologue written on cue cards. But here's the genius part of Brando. He said, shuffle them and then place them around. Cause he knew the order, more or less. He knew the sense of it. Right. So when you go back and you.

[Emily Deschanel]

Look at it, you look over here.

[David Duchovny]

It just looks like he's thinking. He's like, he'll get through one bit and then he'll go, Oh, there it is. And then he'd say that part.

[Emily Deschanel]

Does knowing this ruin that scene for you?

[David Duchovny]

No, no, it makes it okay. I like it even more. So what I wanted to do was I wanted to take my notes.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, okay.

[David Duchovny]

And I wanted to shuffle them first.

[Emily Deschanel]

And just put them in wherever. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And then I'll look at it.

[Emily Deschanel]

I was ready to be reading dialogue.

[David Duchovny]

Well, it could get there and What I wanted to do is give you these three cards.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. Are these my answers?

[David Duchovny]

These are you. To fill. Just write down some. One question per card. One. It has a prompt on one of them.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, okay. Wait.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, the prompt. Is that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Do I read the prompt?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, just read. You can read the prompt to yourself or to me. What does it say? You can't read my handwriting is the problem.

[Emily Deschanel]

I am at the age now where I have this to read.

[David Duchovny]

You need.

[Emily Deschanel]

No, but I can't.

[David Duchovny]

You know, what would you want? You don't have to fix your eyes. You only have to lengthen your arms. It's much easier.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm at the point where I need to fix the eyes and lengthen the arms. Okay. We ask questions for you.

[David Duchovny]

No, no. Just a question. Whatever. You can ask a question to me if that's what's on your mind. But just a question. Just a question. It could have to do with failure or not. It doesn't have to. I don't mean to bring proceedings to a screeching halt here.

[Emily Deschanel]

No, it's okay.

[David Duchovny]

But I seem to have. And then we're gonna reshuffle everything. And then at times when I look down, maybe I'll just look at. Because here's why. This is what I was thinking this morning.

[Emily Deschanel]

I like it. I'm good with it.

[David Duchovny]

I'm a person that likes to do things well, and I think that gets in my way sometimes. So I have these ideas that, you know, this podcast or any podcast or any discussion should have some kind of form. Like we're talking about the song. It should go to a resolution. Yeah, I'm trying to let go of that a little bit because again, it's like saying earlier about rehearsal. It's like I'm trying to let a little magic or loss or in, you know, or mistake in or something fucked up. So you're gonna be the guinea pig.

[Emily Deschanel]

I like it. I'm the same way you are. Yes. I want to.

[David Duchovny]

You want to shuffle those index cards.

[Emily Deschanel]

I want. I want. Thing. I want to. I want things to be controlled. Controlled. I guess that's not exactly what you're saying. You want to be good or.

[David Duchovny]

No, no. But control is part of that because I'm trying to control it into being good.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know what I mean?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, exactly. If I can just control. If I can just do this one thing, if I can ask this right question at this time, exactly. Come to this conclusion, then it will be good.

[David Duchovny]

And as I've been having discussions about success and failure, I realized that so much of my life and people's lives is. Is consumed with getting it right, you know?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And getting it right is often, you know, that's fine. Getting it right is. Is fine. But getting it wrong can be so much more interesting. And you know that as an actor, too.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, not. I'm not talking. We're not talking about you getting the scientific words wrong, but that's no good for anybody.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right. Right.

[David Duchovny]

But you've been involved in scenes on sets where shit goes wrong and it's the best stuff you've ever done.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, so.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, I don't know about that, but I've definitely. I've definitely messed things up. I've definitely failed in different ways or fallen short of the mark in so many ways. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

All right, well, what is your. What is your response in those times? Is it to kind of retreat into the shell of control and go, okay, this time, okay, I fucked up. I'm gonn good this time? Or does it. In my experience, it kind of lets all this air into the room, you know?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And all of a sudden everybody's breathing deeper. Okay. We're all human. That was kind of cool.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Now it brings a different sense into the next take.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, I think of. You know, I went to this conservatory for college. I had a teacher, Bill Young, and I just. He's my favorite teacher, my favorite acting teacher.

[David Duchovny]

And.

[Emily Deschanel]

And his class was mostly in comedy. I had some monologue that I was doing. And you know, you just feel that it's bad. You know, you just feel like, this is not good. I don't know how to make it good. But you still are kind of hoping that your professor is going to like it. And I finished it and he just said, well, that was shitty. And I just loved him so much, so much more in that moment. Cause it did. It freed me up. It a. In the way he said it. And the fact that he's telling me made me think that he thought I could do better. But he's acknowledging the fact that it was bad. We all know it was bad. And if he told me it was good, I wouldn't trust him either. So that to me, I just always remember that because it, like it opened me up so much and you gave me freedom. But I will say that I probably am guilty of then trying to muscle my way into some making something good when I'm, you know, if a scene goes badly, if an audition goes badly, if, you know, something with my kids go badly, like. Let me read more parenting Books. And then I will be a better parent. Let me make sure that I'm meditating every day so I'm not gonna react or whatever it is. I definitely am the person that's like, trying to get as I want a muscle away through it. I want to get as much like outside input to make sure instead of trusting myself. I definitely am guilty of that.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I don't. I don't know about guilty. Like. Okay, I don't like that word there.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

How many parenting books have you read?

[Emily Deschanel]

I probably can't count.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, a million.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, one million. Exactly the number of schools I went to. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

There's that holy grail of the parenting book. You know, it's like every two or three years, there's. Oh, everybody's gotta read this book. And that's the one that's gonna make your kids trauma proof or whatever it's supposed to be. But, you know, there is going to be failure and tragedy in people's lives. And they are even my kids, you know, whom I got to meet. Did you meet them? Did they come to set?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, I shouldn't have done that. That was bad. I shouldn't have brought it. I don't know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, you're thinking that's a failure.

[David Duchovny]

Never bring your children to set. I forgot.

[Emily Deschanel]

They were really cute. I remember. Was one named Kid.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I remember being marveling at the fact that there was a kid named Kid. Yeah, very cute. A good name. I just. That was your son.

[David Duchovny]

He just graduated college this week.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, congratulations, Kid Miller. Aw, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And my daughter is Madeline West.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Right. Weston Miller. I always wanted to call him Kid, but he still goes by Miller. Maybe one day.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Because Kid Duchovny's kind of a good handle.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's a good name. Sounds like a cowboy or something.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I know.

[Emily Deschanel]

You know.

[David Duchovny]

How are you doing on those questions?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, I only put one down. Should I do it? We start talking and then try another.

[David Duchovny]

One with the adhd? Can you talk?

[Emily Deschanel]

And that's the hard part. Okay. So it doesn't have to be about failure. It can just be about anything.

[David Duchovny]

But is it?

[Emily Deschanel]

I'll have to answer.

[David Duchovny]

I don't know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. All right, let me think.

[David Duchovny]

While you think, I'll say that when I did direct you, I wish that after a take I had said, well, that was shitty. And knowing that that's your favorite kind of response.

[Emily Deschanel]

He's was my favorite.

[David Duchovny]

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[David Duchovny]

I brought, I brought this. Don't. Don't look up yet. You're writing. But where is this? I found this on. On the. Online.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, my God. Well, now it's just me, but yeah. Oh my gosh.

[David Duchovny]

It looks like I'm restrain. I'm restraining you. You look pissed off.

[Emily Deschanel]

That was my warming coat on set for so many. It became so you look very skeptical.

[David Duchovny]

I don't know if you're getting that anywhere, but she looks very skeptical and I look like I'm restraining her over here from going after somebody.

[Emily Deschanel]

Well, that is like my go to look. I once did a film and the. I had all the. I had like a family. I was married and I had like three children. And I was thinking thoughts in my mind as an actor. Thinking like, oh, what a beautiful day. I'm sorry. Grateful and lucky to have this family. My husband's playing basketball with my kids.

[David Duchovny]

This is your character.

[Emily Deschanel]

This is my character's mind. Right. And those were my inner thoughts as the actor and the director came up and he said, what are you thinking about? And I didn't want to tell him because I was just kind of. I don't know, it just felt personal and embarrassed. I don't know. I was like, well, what are you seeing?

[David Duchovny]

What are you seeing?

[Emily Deschanel]

He said you look sinister.

[David Duchovny]

Sinister.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think because I have deep set eyes and I like, I tend to furrow my brow. That that's like my go to, like skepticism. Sinister. Yeah. So you were just getting that? It's just my go to. It's my resting, skeptical, sinister face.

[David Duchovny]

Resting sinister face. I had an experience, one of the first films I did. I think I. You can just shuffle them. Shuffle them. I think I almost got fired from it and.

[Emily Deschanel]

Which is a job, a movie.

[David Duchovny]

A movie And I know that they weren't pleased with. Particularly pleased with what I was doing. And in this. In this, which I think you have a story about that as well that I've. I've seen from the first season of Bones. Right. Where you feel like, oh, my God, they. They don't like me.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, well, it was. I mean, there were several things that happened on Bones, but. So first seasons are insane. We were working insane hours. Longer than just a normal series. So, you know, you're working 14 to 16 hour days. And then I had to memorize those. The lines. And so I'd be staying up late at night memorizing lines. I would joke that I would go home and just cry in a bathtub every night. Cause I was just so overwhelmed. I'd come to set and I would, you know, be trying to remember the lines that I, you know, I got no sleep then trying to remember the lines that I had memorized the day before. And then I had them in my head and couldn't remember them. I'd be on set and I'd look around and I'd see the whole crew looking at me, kind of waiting for me to know my lines, to say my lines, which was complicated dialogue. And I would remember a friend who's a crew member who I knew from other jobs would say. It's told me that Cruise. Hate it when actors forget their lines. Like, it's such a pain.

[David Duchovny]

I do too.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, if another. If an actor for. I mean, I have a lot of compassion having done that. This myself. Having experienced where I couldn't be working harder to learn these things and still not being able to get it. But I also, at the same time, can get annoying.

[David Duchovny]

Crews hate it when actors haven't memorized their lines.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

I think they can tell the difference between somebody who's having a moment and somebody who hasn't, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Given the respect.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Of the other working people on this set.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That have families they have to go back to.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And they're not making magic. And they don't give a fuck about.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. They're here, they have a job. They're working insanely.

[David Duchovny]

Your job is to know your lines.

[Emily Deschanel]

And my job is to know my lines and to know what I'm supposed to do in the scene. And I look around and I'd see that. And then the room would start to like, close should.

[David Duchovny]

Tunnel vision.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Fight flight.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, I didn't know I was having panic attacks, but I was basically having panic attacks at the time. And then just trying to, you know, and that's a lot. Keeping things on your shoulder. And so one time. Yeah. Hart Hanson, who's the creator of the show?

[David Duchovny]

A friend of mine.

[Emily Deschanel]

A friend of yours?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Who you met, did you meet while. When you directed Bones, or did you know each other before?

[David Duchovny]

No. Hart lived up in Malibu where I lived. And I think. I think I met him when I was getting coffee and he had. He had been a big fan of the X Files and I think he had maybe wanted to write on that and, and. But I'd never met him before that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And I just loved him as a person. Yeah, he's the best. And you know, we were just talking and then at one point he just said, you want to come direct a show? And I was like, yeah, yeah, why not? Why not? Yeah, sure, I'll come direct a show.

[Emily Deschanel]

You're good at it too. I remember you being very good at it.

[David Duchovny]

You know why? I want to get back to your story. But, you know, I was thinking, why? Why? I said yes, because I never thought of myself as a director for hire, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right, right.

[David Duchovny]

I've directed stuff that I'm in. I've directed stuff that I've written. That's stuff that I think of. But I thought at that point I thought, oh, how interesting to direct something. Just direct, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right. You just come in, that's all you have to do.

[David Duchovny]

I'm just working, you know, I'm not. It's not. Forgive me, it's not coming from my heart.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's not a passion.

[David Duchovny]

It's not. I'm just gonna like, solve this little Rubik's Cube here.

[Emily Deschanel]

Y.

[David Duchovny]

Walk away. Cuz in TV the director has to walk away. You get, I think, two or three days of cutting of Post. And then Steve, I forget his Steve Beers. Steve Beers comes in and recuts everything that you did. So I had like two or three.

[Emily Deschanel]

Days or Stephen Nathan, probably. I think Steve Beers was our, you know, line producer.

[David Duchovny]

I think it was.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think it was Stephen Nathan probably.

[David Duchovny]

But, you know, he was. He was kind of like the Post showrunner.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes, exactly.

[David Duchovny]

And I'm sure he did a great job. But you don't, you don't have. You don't, you know, you're not, you're not attached to it in a way. And I thought, you know, and I had a really good time and that was. It was a lesson to me to, to try to go into every scene and just go, how do I help these people be the best they can. Be. How do we make this scene the best it can be?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, but not, like, break anybody's ass and try to go into overtime and, you know.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Not. Not like that at all.

[Emily Deschanel]

We've got multiple crane shots.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, exactly. So I enjoyed it. I enjoyed. This is gonna sound really wrong. I enjoyed not caring that much.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Does that make any sense?

[Emily Deschanel]

No, it makes complete sense.

[David Duchovny]

Does that sound horrible?

[Emily Deschanel]

No. No. There's a joy in putting all of everything and your passion into something, but that's. You're never gonna feel that way as a director coming in to a television show. You know, if you are part of the process and you're directing the show, that's maybe different. But most TV directors, they come in and they're, like, really skillful at knowing what. Getting things done quickly, knowing how to work with actors. But honestly, I mean, did you get a lot of acting notes? I didn't get a ton of acting notes from directors who come in just in general as, like. As episodic directors.

[David Duchovny]

Well, this is interesting because it was a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I was doing the X Files. Not so much the other shows that I've done, but, you know, as with Bones, it's episodic, but every episode is pretty high drama. You know, it can be life and death. So I would have directors, and sometimes the directors would come on and they'd know they had a great script, and this was, like, on the X Files, this could happen, you know, like, holy shit, this is a great script. And they really wanted to kill it, you know, so they would. They. They were Goodwin, and they were dangerous.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, those guys were dangerous.

[David Duchovny]

So often they would say, we've never seen Mulder like this before, you know, And I'd say, yeah, as about 10 other times. 10 other times we've seen Mulder like this before. And.

[Emily Deschanel]

And then there was, like, very special Mulder episode. Yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And then there was stuff like. You know, we did an episode in the first season where the gist of it was, Mulder's afraid of fire, and he's got to go into this building that's on fire where there's a guy who's kind of, like, making him think of fire and really kryptonite and weakening him. And I remember in the middle of the episode, I had this thought. I think I went up to Chris Carter, who wrote that episode, I believe, and I said, didn't Mulder and Scully watch a building burn down in the pilot? And I think Mulder was fairly Cool with it. You know, it didn't bother. I was like, this kind of stuff, you know, where you're going, you're kind of the curator of the character, and sometimes you have to go. I can't actually do that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah. They didn't. What's funny is I had a similar situation where first season of Bones, I'm very cool with a snake that's there. And then second season or third season, they have me terrified of snakes, but little old me was like, well, they know that I was near a snake in episode 18 and season one or whatever it was, so they must. I, I. I just made that I was scared. I. In my mind, I made it that was scared of small snakes because the other ones are small snakes. And so I just. I didn't even. Now I would absolutely go to the showrunner.

[David Duchovny]

What's the term for fear of snakes?

[Emily Deschanel]

I know chlorophobia is a fear of. Of clowns.

[David Duchovny]

That's different.

[Emily Deschanel]

That's all I know.

[David Duchovny]

Clown snake or clown fish. What's the fear of clownfish? My daughter has a fear of snakes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And it's. And it's real. I mean, it's. It's. It's.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

It overcomes her.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm not great with snakes, but I.

[David Duchovny]

It's like the tiny ones. It's the tiny ones.

[Emily Deschanel]

The tiny ones move quickly. I. I feel like the tiny ones are scarier than the big ones.

[David Duchovny]

They could be. They could be.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm with Brennan.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

But. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So wait, bring me back to.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay, so I was in. I'm in my trailer first season. I'm having panic attacks.

[David Duchovny]

But what's very interesting is the. What you mentioned, like, the tunnel vision.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

Because we talk about failure a lot on this podcast, but we usually talk about things or experiences or events. But, you know, there's the physiological response to something that's failing or something that's going wrong.

[Emily Deschanel]

The panic, the shame. The shame.

[David Duchovny]

Shame is a big deal.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, it's probably shame. I mean, the panic is part of the shame. But I think it is what's at.

[David Duchovny]

The heart of it. I think at the heart of it, what you're saying is, oh, I'm exposed here, as you know, because you mentioned the crew. So they're all seeing that I can't do it. They're all seeing that I'm bad. They're all seeing that I didn't work hard enough.

[Emily Deschanel]

My true self, if you will. My fail. Failing self.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

That I can't do it. There, you know, it's like imposter syndrome kind of thing. They all know that I'm just faking this, right? Yeah, it's very exposing. And yeah, I think it is. It is shame. And so I was feeling that. I mean, I had been late. We were filming in Whittier. There was like a terrible accident. I'd been late. You don't realize that, like, the studio sees the production report and all they see is like, Emily Deschanel or I have 30 minutes late. And, you know, I never.

[David Duchovny]

I never thought about that.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, you did? You never think of it at all, ever?

[David Duchovny]

Only when I started directing, I was like, these fuckers are late, right?

[Emily Deschanel]

No, I was very much aware. Maybe after this conversation that I had with Hart, I became very aware of like, okay, they know when I step into the hair, makeup, trailer. They know exactly what time. They know if I've caused it. They know if anyone's caused a delay and becoming a producer on the show also like you. Anyway, after this conversation, was never late again. But he. Hart knocked on my trailer door and I. Which was, you know, not a usual thing. He wasn't knocking on my door often.

[David Duchovny]

It's like the cops knocking on the door.

[Emily Deschanel]

I thought it might be the cops, the TV cops. I was arrest. Going to get arrested. But anyways, basically was. He took me aside and said, you know, the studio is concerned about your. Has concerns about your work. They.

[David Duchovny]

What does that mean?

[Emily Deschanel]

They said that I was late and unprepared. And that to me, like was. I mean, I get emotional just thinking about it now because it probably a shame. It was like, you are unprofessional. Oh my God, it's so funny. Like, I literally just gave a speech and I mentioned this speech and now why is it like. Sorry.

[David Duchovny]

No, no, don't apologize.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm a dramatic actor.

[David Duchovny]

No, what I think is if I could. If I could just stop there for a moment is it's your self respect. It's your. It's like they're saying you're a bad person.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, it's not even about acting at that point. It's like you don't care about other people is what I'm hearing there.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And that's not you. So you're being misunderstood.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[David Duchovny]

I think a lot of it that hurts.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was feeling, you know, I grew up, my dad had such a strong work ethic. Like, I love, you know.

[David Duchovny]

Do you know your dad directed me.

[Emily Deschanel]

Twin Peaks? Yeah, I knew that years ago, I think when we work together. That's so crazy.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

My dad directed you. You directed me?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

I have to direct one of your children. Is that how it works? Are they actors?

[David Duchovny]

My daughter is. Yeah. Yeah. You'll have to direct my daughter.

[Emily Deschanel]

I would love to direct your daughter.

[David Duchovny]

I mean, terrific.

[Emily Deschanel]

I've hardly directed, but I think you should. I would love to. I just don't have the opportunities to. I mean, yet. That's a whole other thing. But we'll get there.

[David Duchovny]

It might be in the cards here. Is it in the cards? Okay. So hard.

[Emily Deschanel]

Literal guards on your door. So hard is knocking on my door.

[David Duchovny]

Kaleidoscopic fractions off of his glasses and.

[Emily Deschanel]

He says, they have. And I just. I mean, I was a wreck. I mean, my friend was visiting me at the time. She's like, I didn't think human beings had projectile tears.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

You know, in cartoons, I took it so hard. And, you know, I was such a fragile, you know, person at the time. I mean, you know, I got hardened up doing that show for so long. I was such a, you know, I, I mean, I was not sleeping. I was like, so stressed out. I was already like, I'm an actor, I'm an emotional person. So I was just beside myself. But yeah, he. They took me aside and, and said that. And then the next day we got picked up.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, really?

[Emily Deschanel]

For the back nine.

[David Duchovny]

So did Hart say, okay, now we're in this process. So, like, how do we, how do we address these issues without making you break down and feel miserable?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. So he gave me support. That's how I got someone to help me run the lines with me.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, so there's practical. There's a practical.

[Emily Deschanel]

Then they were like, you need to go to your trailer. Because I would never go to my trailer except unless I was changing or whatever.

[David Duchovny]

I love being in my trailer.

[Emily Deschanel]

I ended up loving it. And they gave me a bigger trailer. I just had a small trailer when I first saw it.

[David Duchovny]

That's why I didn't want to be in it.

[Emily Deschanel]

David Boreanas had a big trailer and they gave. They was not in my contract, but they gave me a trailer, you know, because I was also not. There was no, no scenes I was not in that. They weren't filming on a double up day. So, you know, you had double up days.

[David Duchovny]

I'm sure you mean two units.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, two units. So I'd go to the next episode and they'd film scenes that I wasn't in. So.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

They realized that they could write more scenes for the. They did a lot of things to help me not be a nervous wreck.

[David Duchovny]

Well, once you're. Once you got picked up and you've established the two main characters, then they could serve as the kind of orbiting characters.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. And they're so good. We had great actors, and they realized how they could utilize them more. And they also realized, you know, you don't put eight people on a lab platform scene, you know, with eight pages. That is.

[David Duchovny]

I remember trying to shoot one like that. I was like, how. How are we going to shoot this? You know, you were just.

[Emily Deschanel]

Season two.

[David Duchovny]

Let's get it. Let's get a tight eight over here. Can you all just face the same direction?

[Emily Deschanel]

We definitely have late nights like that where a director. I think you're all just standing, looking at the body, you know, from this angle. You know, it would be two in the morning and on a Saturday.

[David Duchovny]

And all the actors like, yes.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. Eventually. The first. The first episode after the pilot, I remember the director wasn't doing that extreme of a thing, but I think he. He took us. You know, he just kind of said, okay, you can stand here, you can stand there. And several of us had never done a series before where someone just tells you, okay. You stand there and you get to a point where you're like, great, tell me where to go, and I will do it. And if I have any, I'll make it work. I will tell you. But mostly I'll just make it work. And we were, like. We were offended, basically, that the director had told us where to stand. And then we realized, you know, a few episodes later, it was a gift that we were given. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

What I would try to do if I was faced with a, you know, a scene where there were five people talking.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I shouldn't.

[Emily Deschanel]

As a director.

[David Duchovny]

No, as an actor.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh. Huh.

[David Duchovny]

I would say I'm gonna go stand away from everybody.

[Emily Deschanel]

So you get a single.

[David Duchovny]

Well, not just a single, but just my coverage is done. You know, like, I don't. I don't. I don't.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I'm just gonna stand here and look everywhere.

[Emily Deschanel]

I'm gonna be the corner with the water cooler.

[David Duchovny]

I think Mulder would go over there. Yeah. And everybody else is, you know. Cause he's an outsider. Everybody else is over there. All this. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

You justified it.

[David Duchovny]

I justified it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

So Heart kind of worked with you. So he kind of held your hand through that in a nice way. That's good.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. And heart helped me find Ways to, you know, be better at my, you know, get my job done in terms of learning my lines and remembering them. And a lot of it was having downtime or having, you know, some scene that I'm not in, et cetera.

[David Duchovny]

So.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, he's just a good one. He's. We were so lucky.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you know why? You know why he's so good?

[Emily Deschanel]

Because he's Canadian.

[David Duchovny]

Exactly.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That's the only reason. But it's true. Did you ever. Was there ever any kind of a recurrence of that tunnelly feeling?

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, daily.

[David Duchovny]

Daily, right. Yeah, because it does kind of come back, but you learn to. The flare ups are smaller and smaller and you know that you've been through it. You're like, I can, I can, I can exist within this.

[Emily Deschanel]

For me as an actor, I got smaller and smaller. For me now as a person, I feel like my anxiety is like now in the last, whatever six months has been insane. So I can't say that it like in my life, my anxiety is just as a parent.

[David Duchovny]

You mean as a parent and as a.

[Emily Deschanel]

Just everything in my life. Um, but yes, as a parent, I. I will wake up in the middle of the night and be.

[David Duchovny]

I mean, let me give you the good news.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Never ends.

[Emily Deschanel]

Wait, do. Are both your children out of college just now? So long ago, but still, I mean.

[David Duchovny]

I will continue to worry forever.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. No, I know the job never ends.

[David Duchovny]

Not like, not that they're. Not that they're so, you know, meriting of worry, but it's just, it's just the nature. And as a mother, even more so. I'm sure you have two boys, is that right?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. Look at you. You did research.

[David Duchovny]

It's in here somewhere. But I thought, how very interesting because, you know, there's a lot of focus these days on boys. Like just recently, like young men. I'm going off to do a movie that kind of attacks this. But there's. Every day it seems there's an article I'm reading, you know, like, what's wrong with young men? And I wonder, do you think about. Well, as a woman, you know, you're raising boys.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You're married, your husband is involved, obviously.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, very involved.

[David Duchovny]

Yes, very involved. And especially with boys, you know, modeling, you know, that aspect of manhood, whatever it is. But have you been struck just in the time that you've been raising these two boys, of watching in the culture in general, of there being this kind of, if not a problem with boys, then a focus on what's wrong with boys.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. And it's so funny that you mention that and having read so many parenting books. I have parenting books. One million, as we know, but I have not read one million and one, which are the ones about the boys. I do have books that are specifically about boys and I think. And the articles and things like that, it gives me anxiety. It gives me anxiety to. To I've read a little bit, but I haven't taken a deep dive there. But. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm so glad I wanted to have girls when I was younger, you know, when I was a kid and then I babysat for two boys and I just love them. And so I. I'm so glad I have boys. Somebody said to me, boys need their moms, but they hate that they need their moms. And I find that to be very much like a thing, you know, in my relationship with my sons. Like, there's something that I can't provide for them. That their dad provides for them.

[David Duchovny]

Absolutely.

[Emily Deschanel]

And that. That and there. And sometimes I, you know, because I was close to my mom growing up and I just think, you know, kids are close to their moms, so. And I'm there more than my husband is. But I mean, it fluctuates depending on what we're each doing work wise.

[Podcast Advertiser]

But.

[Emily Deschanel]

But sometimes, you know, they'll run to him instead of me. And that's. That's. That's a hard thing for me. Just. Yeah, it is. I mean, I. It was started with like working so hard when they were really young that, like, I missed first steps. I missed certain things.

[David Duchovny]

I wanted to ask about that. That you had. You gave birth to both boys during.

[Emily Deschanel]

On the set of Bones.

[David Duchovny]

You did not. You just used that great set, perfect.

[Emily Deschanel]

Set to give birth at 12 hours.

[David Duchovny]

Before I went to.

[Emily Deschanel]

But I did not give birth.

[David Duchovny]

How did they shoot around that well?

[Emily Deschanel]

So the. My first son, I was due in the middle of the season and I asked for six weeks off and heart showrunner like who we talked about. Who we talked about before he Canadian, as you'll see. He gave me 12 weeks off. So.

[David Duchovny]

So Canadian.

[Emily Deschanel]

So Canadian. He gave me extra.

[David Duchovny]

That's almost. That's almost Scandinavian.

[Emily Deschanel]

That's almost no Scandinavian. Would be a year for each parent, maybe two years, I think.

[David Duchovny]

And paid.

[Emily Deschanel]

Paid for a year. I know at least a year in Sweden because I know some Swedes, but. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Civilized.

[Emily Deschanel]

I know. I think I'd go a little bit crazy with a baby and I mean, I guess if both of you. Yeah. Both parents get that. So No, I thought would be lovely.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. So wait, let me just. Let me just imagine I'm shooting you. You're big, right?

[Emily Deschanel]

I was pregnant. I was. My character was pregnant.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, your character was pregnant?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes. Both times I told Hart, I was like, I'm not gonna be one of those tiny pregnant people. I'm gonna. You can't hide. You're not gonna be able to hide it. You definitely could not hide.

[David Duchovny]

Jillian got pregnant the first season, and we had to shoot. Oh, my God.

[Emily Deschanel]

The first season.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And we didn't shoot her for being pregnant. You know, we shot her for not.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

The first season is hard. We were in our sixth season, maybe something like that. And so. But the character. Booth and Brennan are. My character and David Boreanas's character were not together. They decided to put us together. There was discussion whether I have another baby, I have a baby on my own, or.

[David Duchovny]

So they put you together because you were pregnant. See, that's interesting. That it drives story.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, Interesting to me. Yeah, it is interesting.

[David Duchovny]

What about your energy, you know?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

So hard.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. Well, I first in both pregnancies, asked to limit my hours to 12 hours a day. But when you think about that, that's a long day. But that's limited for an actor, especially an actress.

[David Duchovny]

If you're saying door to door, 12.

[Emily Deschanel]

Not door to door, but arriving. But I mean, have hair and makeup for an hour before we start filming. So it's like. And then you have an hour for lunch. I meant an hour from when I arrive. Whatever.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

So. Which is a long day in every regard, but it's a shorter day for, you know, TV series. So I asked for that. But then I had some complications with my second pregnancy, and so I limited to 10 hours a day, but I would go. I would go to my trailer and take a nap before I drove home, because I'd be too tired to drive home a lot of times.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello, I'm Gretchen Rubin. And I'm Lori Gottlieb. We're two friends, one a happiness researcher and the other a therapist, and we are here to tackle the problems of everyday life with all of you, from.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Big issues to small.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We'll share advice and fresh perspectives, and.

[Podcast Advertiser]

We'Ll also highlight responses from you, our.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Listeners, to the questions we discuss. Whether it's that pet peeve that's been bugging you for years, a tricky dilemma, or just something you've always wondered about? We'll talk it through the since you asked podcast from Lemonada media premieres on September 23rd. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Duchovny]

Is this your handwriting?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, good. Your handwriting is good.

[Emily Deschanel]

I mean, it might be slightly better than yours, but it's not great.

[David Duchovny]

When was success a negative thing? I'm not.

[Emily Deschanel]

I don't know. That was a terrible question. I shouldn't have asked.

[David Duchovny]

I can't get rid of it because.

[Emily Deschanel]

It'S a bad question.

[David Duchovny]

You don't have to answer it.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's a good general question. But I. It's, you know, it's like on the spot. Like say something funny and then you don't know what you're gonna say.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

When was success? I feel. I mean, what kind of success? I mean I certainly it affected relationships. You know, I had. I. The like a boyfriend I had early on in Bones. Like I don't think it was helpful really. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Your success.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You felt threatened by that or you were just so busy?

[Emily Deschanel]

Both, I think. Yeah. And that's me guessing about certain things. But yeah, I think that it was both. You know, you, you also. It's like I think, you know, that guy in particular thought I was like avoiding. I'm like I'm literally working non stop. When I'm not sleeping, I'm working. Like there's just no time for me to see you like this. I'm not avoiding you. I am just trying to survive. So there was that. That was one thing that wasn't meant to be Anyway, but yeah, what about.

[David Duchovny]

What about. What about within the family? Was there any ever sibling rivalry or. Your mom's an actress, your dad's a director? I mean, like, everybody's kind of.

[Emily Deschanel]

I don't think there's any sibling rivalry where any. I don't think my sister was ever, you know, envious of me being on Bones. I don't think that was ever a thing. And we're pretty good. I mean, it's kind of weird to both be actors. You have a sister. Do you have other siblings?

[David Duchovny]

I have an older brother and a younger sister, and neither of them wanted to be actress. Yeah, I mean, I didn't. I didn't start acting. I was like 26, 27.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Late. Late.

[Emily Deschanel]

Other thing you got. You did.

[David Duchovny]

I was getting all those advanced degrees.

[Emily Deschanel]

Very educated.

[David Duchovny]

Overly educated. Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. I mean, no, I think everyone's just. My sister and I are so different too. Well, I think like maybe twice we auditioned for the same part.

[David Duchovny]

Really? Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

One time she got the part and I. I was really loving that part. It was really good part. But she's. She was the person. Right. For that part. And I don't know. So we're different enough that we don't really have that. Yeah, but.

[David Duchovny]

But you pull for each other.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. I'm really so proud of her. I mean, I get. I mean, when she started New Girl too. I mean, I watched every episode of that show. It was hilarious. And I mean, I would get. I visited her on set and get teary eyed. I was so proud of her. She's just so funny and good. She'd be improvising things and anyway. But. Yeah, okay. No, that was not. I'd say pretty much. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Okay. Okay. Oh, this is a card called Stupid Questions.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. I like Stupid questions.

[David Duchovny]

Is it harder to get a fake honorary degree or a real.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think it's harder to get a real one. For sure.

[David Duchovny]

You don't have to answer this one. This just makes me laugh. Is there failure?

[Emily Deschanel]

Is there failure?

[David Duchovny]

Is there a failure?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. Or you say, are you. Are you positing the question of what we think of Failure is actually just the question. It's just the process.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, it's kind of just a short circuiting kind of a question.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

What did you forget today?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, I'll tell you. I didn't charge my car. Well, no, that's not true. I charged my car and it didn't. I didn't check it and so I had to take my husband's car and then charge it. Oh, on the way. So. But in terms of what I forget, I was thinking this is where I go to. Because I do have adhd, and I for. I literally forget things all the time. So I go to physical things that I forgot. But you're. We could. It could mean, what did I forget to bring up today?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Or it could mean in. In. In my world, it's more like. And. And this is. Is too kind of self flagellating. But the idea is there's so many things I have to forget in order to just go on with my day, you know, because there's so much shit.

[Emily Deschanel]

Happening, like forgiving, forget and forgive.

[David Duchovny]

Forget that they're. That they're putting this Draconian bill through Congress right now.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, yes. 100%. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You know, every day we wake up and we have to forget a number of things in order to live our lives.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes. And sometimes it feels like even more and more these days.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you were talking about your Anx, so.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That it was growing in the last six months. It's been, you know, that way. So it was. It was. It can be. It can mean that as well. And it's. I find it an interesting question to ask myself because, you know, we all have to be callous in a certain way. You know, we can't have compassion for the world. Every moment of our lives. It's paralyzing. So it was more.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, you can't. I mean, it's. It can be overwhelming. And I think having children, it actually can be helpful to me because you have to go on. You have to make sure that your kids know, hey, all these things in the world are happening, but we're gonna be okay.

[David Duchovny]

And they have to have their childhood, which is not involved in the budget and anything like that, nor should it be. It's, in a way, as much pain as those activities are bringing the world in general, they're not the reality of being a child, you know?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. I think my kids are probably growing up faster than they should.

[David Duchovny]

Well, that's the phone stuff. So I don't even get to.

[Emily Deschanel]

They don't have phones.

[David Duchovny]

They will.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Eventually they're gonna have John Wick on their phone before you know it. This is your handwriting. What have you learned from failure? What have I learned from failure? What have you learned from failure?

[Emily Deschanel]

Sure. What have you learned from failure? I mean, I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

Well, what I like to think I learned is humility, vulnerability, enthusiasm. You know, that you can go on accountability, all the good things, like nothing. Nothing. From success. Success you learn. Arrogance, complacency.

[Emily Deschanel]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

Paranoia. Don't want to lose this thing. Yeah, but failure makes you. I think it grows your brain, whereas success probably shrinks it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

I'm not a doctor. Maybe. Maybe in your. Because you. Oh, honorary doctorate. Perfect. Perfect. Honorary doctorate. People consider you an expert at. What do they consider you an expert at? I read that people consider you an expert.

[Emily Deschanel]

What? Although maybe they think I'm an expert on bones. Because of bones. I'm not an expert on bones.

[David Duchovny]

Did you ever take the gruesome work home with you? Was it weird to be hugely pregnant and looking at this gruesome stuff early.

[Emily Deschanel]

On, before I was ever pregnant? I feel like it took a toll a bit. Dealing with death and murder. Cause not just.

[David Duchovny]

It did.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, yeah. Even a light hearted show like our show was never too dark. Keep trying and it doesn't work. Yeah, it was never dark, but it just, you know.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Emily Deschanel]

Dealing with murder, even fake murder.

[David Duchovny]

I never took that stuff home.

[Emily Deschanel]

Wow, you're good.

[David Duchovny]

I didn't. I never had nightmares. Never anything like that.

[Podcast Advertiser]

I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

Maybe I'm a psychopath. It's possible. What haven't you been asked that you always wish you'd been asked?

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

Forget that one. Stupid.

[Emily Deschanel]

Can I juggle?

[David Duchovny]

It was actually a stupid question.

[Emily Deschanel]

I can't.

[David Duchovny]

It was a stupid. Can you juggle?

[Emily Deschanel]

I have learned how to juggle. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Sometimes the hardest empathy is for ourselves. Who said that?

[Emily Deschanel]

Me, I don't think I. Also before I had to say that. I'm not sure if you call it empathy. If it's for yourself. It might just be self compassion. I do very well.

[David Duchovny]

This is one of the things I talked about with Peter Singer was empathy versus. Not versus necessarily, but empathy and compassion. And we kind of had this discussion and he has felt this way in his work where empathy is kind of an exhaustible resource in a way. Like to feel for one person, feel for another. Okay. Now I'm feeling for three people. And like it's getting. It's. It's a lot.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And compassion is, is more of a feeling that you can scale. Like I can have compassion.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

For many, many more people. It's. It's less an emotion. You know, empathy is like this emotional outreach.

[Emily Deschanel]

It's exhausting.

[David Duchovny]

Right. Compassion is more. Is. Is. Is. I don't know if I'm being clear on it, but we talk a lot about empathy these days and I'd like to talk about compassion as well because I think Empathy scares people. Cause it's exhausting. And you go, well, fuck, I can only take care of my little world here. That's all I can do, because otherwise I'm gonna get stressed out. And compassion is not like that. Compassion seems a little more logical, a little less emotional.

[Emily Deschanel]

I think that's true. And you don't have to. I mean, empathy means you're putting yourself in the other person's shoes. You are imagining yourself living. I mean, that's what we do as actors.

[David Duchovny]

That's what you said at bu.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah. So. And I. I. I think I chose to speak about empathy because I think it relates to us as actors and what we do. And we have to basically have empathy for a character and then, you know, embody that character, or at least give the illusion of embodying that character.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Emily Deschanel]

But compassion, I think, is more scalable, and I think it's also less exhausting.

[David Duchovny]

And it seems like it might lead to action as well. Empathy kind of leads to emotion, right?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Compassion might lead to action. Let's say. Talk about your podcast on the Bones rewatch.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay. My friend Carla Gallo and I. I've worked with Carla.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, that's right.

[Emily Deschanel]

You worked with her on Californiacation. Oh, my God.

[David Duchovny]

She's great.

[Emily Deschanel]

She played like a porn star on that.

[David Duchovny]

She was more in the Charlie Runkle world, less the Hank Moody world, but she's great. She's great.

[Emily Deschanel]

We became fast friends working on bones. She did 33 episodes of the show. She was never a series regular, but she was a recurring character, and we became friends. And so we are doing a rewatch podcast of Bones called Bone.

[David Duchovny]

Actually rewatching every episode.

[Emily Deschanel]

Yes. And some of the times I'm just watching them for the first time. Cause I had watched a certain amount, especially in the first place season. But do you.

[David Duchovny]

Do you watch them together, or you'll just go off and watch it yourself?

[Emily Deschanel]

On our own, usually, but we have watched. We have watched together.

[David Duchovny]

What's the experience like watching yourself from. How many years ago is this now?

[Emily Deschanel]

20 years.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. It's almost like home movies in a way.

[Emily Deschanel]

It is what I find. I actually. Speaking of empathy and compassion, I have a lot more empathy for myself. Like, when I would watch that before, my husband would call it hate watching. If I ever watch myself, I. I mean, I'm just. I hate it. I hate watching myself in.

[David Duchovny]

In everything you do?

[Emily Deschanel]

Yeah, everything.

[David Duchovny]

Fantastic. Sounds very healthy. No.

[Emily Deschanel]

Oh, good for you. Good for you.

[David Duchovny]

I don't. I mean, I sometimes hate myself.

[Emily Deschanel]

So envious.

[David Duchovny]

But sometimes I kind of dig it.

[Emily Deschanel]

Okay.

[David Duchovny]

I'm like, yeah, that was good, that was good.

[Emily Deschanel]

I want to be like that.

[David Duchovny]

What a delightful person Emily Deschanel is. She's very game and spontaneous and so I felt like it might be a good idea to try mixing up the interview style a bit for myself. And I really enjoyed that kind of ass backwards free flowing form and it really taught me something that we're going to get these, we're going to get to these places and I can let go of controlling it. I can let go of trying to get to the answer that I think is the answer and let the answer evolve. That surprises me and hopefully surprises Emily as well. Surprises us both. Thanks so much for listening to Fail Better. If you haven't yet, now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like my thoughts on conversations with guests including Alec Baldwin and Rob Lowe. Just hit the subscribe subscribe button on Apple Podcasts. Or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com Failmetter is production of Lemonada Media in coordination with King Baby. It is produced by Keegan Zema, Aria Brachi and Donnie Matias. Our engineer is Brian Castillo. Our SVP of Weekly is Steve Nelson. Our VP of New content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to Carl Ackerman, Tom Kupinski and Brad Davidson. The show is executive produced by Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and me, David Duchovny. The music is also by me and my band, the lovely Colin Lee, Pat McCusker, Mitch Stewart, Davis Rowan and Sebastian Modak. You can find us online at Lemonada Media and you can find me at David Duchovny. Follow Fail Better wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions. Solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[Emily Deschanel]

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer.

[Lemonada Media Announcer]

And producer in Hollywood.

[Emily Deschanel]

Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from lemonada Media.