Transcript

Julia Louis-Dreyfus (0:00)

Hiya, Julia Louis Dreyfus here from the Wiser Than Me podcast. Among other things. And I've got a bit of a hot take. Our relationship to our food can feel disconnected. We don't always know how or where our food is grown. And if we throw food scraps in the garbage, we don't think about where it's going. Or at least we try not to. One way that I get back a little of that connection is by using my mill food recycler. Sure, mill has totally changed my home life in a lot of practical ways. It works automatically. You can fill it for weeks. It never ever smells. But this is also really important. When I use mill, I'm participating in a circular system. All the food I don't eat is helping to grow the food that I do. It makes me feel like I'm part of something bigger. And that feels really, really, really good. And it's all so ridiculously easy. I just drop my scraps in my mill and it transforms them into nutrient rich grounds overnight. I have mine sent to a small farm, but if I wanted to, I could use them in my garden or for my backyard chickens if I wanted backyard chickens. And I don't know, maybe I do now, maybe I don't. Anyway, maybe mill is transforming me too, just a little. If you want to feel more connected or you just want your kitchen to feel less gross, try. Try Mill's risk free trial and just live with it for a while. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

Rob Lowe (1:36)

Hey, it's me, Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because you and I go way back, right? Yeah. And look at us now, like we're all grown up. We've got this new podcast where we talk about all this grown up stuff and there's special guests like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media Alive with Steve burns is coming September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts or you can watch every episode on YouTube.

David Duchovny (2:08)

Lemonada. I'm David Duchovny and this is Fail Better. A show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Rob Lowe is an actor, filmmaker and host of the podcast. Literally. He was, of course, one of the core members of the Brat Pack, very unofficial group of young actors in the 1980s who came to dominate the screen in iconic films like the Outsiders and St. Elmo's Fire. If you don't remember Rob from that era, perhaps you Know him as Sam seaborn of the hit 90s political drama the West Wing, or as the ever upbeat Chris Traeger on Parks and Recreation. Whatever you know him from, or wherever you know him from, you probably know Rob Lowe these days. You can catch him starring on 911 Lone Star and as the host of the trivia game show the Floor. He's been married to his wife Cheryl since 1991, and he's got two sons. One of them, John Owen Lowe, is a writer and actor, and they've worked together over the years, including on the Netflix comedy Unstable. Rob is a terrific guy, and we've got some stories you'll hear from us working together on Californication and even Bad Influence. Back in the day, just when I was starting out as an actor, I had the good fortune to meet Rob. So here he is, Rob Lowe, everyone. Or as I like to call him, Rob Lowe. Hello.

Summary

Fail Better with David Duchovny

Episode: "Fail Again: The Buoyancy of Rob Lowe"

Lemonada Media | February 10, 2026

Episode Overview

In this deeply insightful exchange, host David Duchovny sits down with longtime friend and actor Rob Lowe to discuss the central theme of failure—not as a scarlet letter, but as a source of growth, resilience, and, ultimately, buoyancy. The two trace Rob’s journey from 1980s stardom, through personal and professional setbacks, to enduring happiness, marriage, and a thriving career. They touch on childhood wounds, marriage and parenting, the changing landscape of show business, shame, humility, and spiritual growth—all with humor, candor, and warmth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter: Cold Plunges, Birthdays, and Roasts

[03:44] - [07:50] The conversation starts with lighthearted jokes about their wintery attire and cold plunges before shifting to Rob’s 60th birthday roast, hosted by Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Downey Jr.
- Memorable quote:
  "Turning 60 is not for sissies." (Rob Lowe, 05:42)
- The roast leads to a recurring theme: Rob’s openness to being lampooned as a form of strength. Duchovny suggests that this “buoyancy” is a signature part of Rob’s character:
  “Rob is buoyant…He bobs along these turbulent waters, but he’s always on top of the water.” (David Duchovny, 07:10)
Rob credits his willingness to be the butt of jokes to both his heroes and his own melancholic childhood.

Childhood, Divorce, and the Roots of People-Pleasing

[08:45] - [11:20] Both men discuss the long-term impact of their parents’ divorces.
- Rob remembers being a melancholy kid post-divorce and notes his impulse to “people please” and be funny as a way of coping:
  "I was melancholy. Like a melancholy kid." (Rob Lowe, 09:33)
- Duchovny shares his own fatherless upbringing and how it shaped his approach to parenting:
  "I felt like I was making it up, you know. I felt like I was just treading water." (David Duchovny, 10:54)

Marriage & Forgiveness: How to Fight Well

[13:18] - [19:01] Rob discusses his 34-year marriage to Cheryl and their shared commitment not to repeat the trauma of their own childhood divorces.
- Practical advice from therapy: During fights, each partner talks uninterrupted for five minutes. Hearing yourself back can “deflate” anger:
  "Do you know how hard it is to talk for five minutes, no matter how angry you are, without any feedback?" (Rob Lowe, 17:05)
- The power of forgiveness is emphasized as key to their longevity.
Rob shares an anecdote about a therapist’s assignment: stand in front of a McDonald’s and ask strangers where McDonald’s is, to examine his own comfort with public embarrassment.

The Nature of Memory & Storytelling

[21:24] - [23:14] The conversation turns meta, as Rob notes how telling stories repeatedly for his one-man show has warped his own sense of what’s real:
- “When we remember an event or a story, we’re not actually remembering the event or the story. We’re remembering the last time we remembered the event.” (David Duchovny, 21:24)
- This leads to a meditation on the reliability of memory and the subtle distances we grow from our own stories.

Onstage Authenticity & the Audience as Co-Star

[25:34] - [27:49] Duchovny points out the audience's transformative role in any live performance, not as mere spectators but as the other "character" in the show.
- "It's not a monologue, it's a dialogue… and you've got to be alive and improvisational." (David Duchovny, 25:43)
- Rob lights up at this description and describes the experience as the reason he returns to the stage:
  “You feel alive, present, improvisational, on point, keyed up, focused.” (Rob Lowe, 26:15)
- Both reflect on the connective, almost spiritual power of live performance.

Family Patterns & the Meaning of Work

[28:04] - [34:24] Rob shares the story of his grandfather, a talented artist who gave up his craft for financial security, only to suffer as a result. This underscores the ongoing tension between artistry and earning a living.
- Rob is adamant:
  “I don’t subscribe to the issue… that your relationship between commerce and art is a correlation of your level of artistry.” (Rob Lowe, 31:47)
- Duchovny admits that childhood scarcity still shadows his anxieties, regardless of success.

Shame, Humility & Sobriety

[39:46] - [51:32] Duchovny raises the subject of shame as both a regulator for social behavior and a source of personal limitation.
- Rob shares how, in his youth, he overcompensated by becoming “impervious” to shame. Only in sobriety did he learn the difference between healthy shame (the basis of social morality) and destructive forms.
- The “shameless creature” story—a character Joel Schumacher based on Rob—captures Rob’s shifting self-awareness around shame:
  - “To have no shame, you just, you follow the logic to its ultimate conclusion, you have no morality.” (Rob Lowe, 45:27)
- Both reflect on the practice of humility over humiliation—a distinction they believe is misunderstood in modern culture.
  - “The real, real, real goats…They’re all unbelievably humble, all of them. It’s the pretenders that have no humility.” (Rob Lowe, 50:15)

Resentment, Recovery, and Spiritual Practice

[51:58] - [57:11] Rob details how ongoing recovery requires relentless daily work on resentments—the real trigger for relapse.
- “It’s having a resentment is like drinking poison and meant for your enemy.” (Rob Lowe paraphrasing, 53:27)
Both describe the illusion that self-work ends at a finish line, when in reality it is perpetual:
- "It’s a daily practice in many ways… you actually have to exercise it daily." (David Duchovny, 53:43)
The conversation moves to spirituality, as Rob recalls how faking faith out of necessity became genuine through lived experience (“fake it till you make it”).

Legacy, Regret, and Living Apology

[58:17] - [61:14] Duchovny lauds Rob for his resilience and the way he displays hurt without self-pity.
- “Your apology has been… the most beautiful because it's the way in which you live your life.” (David Duchovny, 60:17)
Rob acknowledges the ongoing challenge of knowing what to reveal and what to hold private, ultimately circling back to the value of simply making “the next right choice.”

Notable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

Rob Lowe on Roasts & Buoyancy:
- “But it’s my shit. Yes, there’s nothing worse than being forgotten.” (07:50)
Duchovny on Divorce's Impact:
- “I did not believe that you could do a divorce well… it is a trauma for the child, no matter how well you do it.” (11:09)
On Fighting Well in Marriage:
- “You fire your most angry shot, and it lands with a thud because they're not allowed to say anything for five minutes…” (17:05)
On Fame & Generosity:
- “To me, that’s what a star is… That was your character. It speaks to your character.” (36:39)
On Memory:
- “We’re not actually remembering the event, we’re remembering the last time we remembered the event…” (21:24)
Resilience through Setbacks:
- “Every great artist you can name painted for money.” (32:17)
Humility in Greatness:
- “The real, real, real goats…all unbelievably humble, all of them.” (50:15)
On Recovery & Resentments:
- “Having a resentment is like drinking poison meant for your enemy.” (53:27)
On Living Amends:
- “Your apology...is the way in which you live your life.” (60:17)

Segment Timestamps of Note

00:00 – 02:08: Ads, show intro (skipped)
03:44 – 07:50: Birthday roasts & personal buoyancy
08:45 – 11:20: Impact of parental divorce
13:18 – 19:01: Longevity of marriage, therapy, and forgiveness
21:24 – 23:14: The mutability of memory in storytelling
25:34 – 27:49: Audience as essential to live performance; acting’s “alive” moments
28:04 – 34:24: Family history and the meaning of work
39:46 – 51:32: Shame, humility, sobriety practices
51:58 – 57:11: Recovery and the ongoing struggle with resentment
58:17 – 61:14: Grace, legacy, and living a life of quiet apology

Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is candid, warm, and frequently self-deprecating. Both Duchovny and Lowe move fluidly between humor and vulnerability. Their shared history, including time working together, adds an undercurrent of affection and authenticity.

Summary Takeaway

Rob Lowe engages with the theme of failure not by burying pain or shame, but by letting it teach resilience, humility, and joy. He is buoyant—not invincible, but floating and pressing forward. This deeply personal episode offers practical wisdom on relationships, recovery, humility, and self-knowledge. Both actors model how acknowledging and learning from pain leads not just to surviving failure, but, as Beckett suggests, to failing better.

For listeners seeking strategies for confronting personal setbacks or simply craving thoughtful, funny, and unguarded conversation about how we grow, this episode delivers.