Fail Better with David Duchovny: Episode Summary - "Failure-ish with Kenya Barris"

In this compelling episode of Fail Better, host David Duchovny engages in an intimate and insightful conversation with Kenya Barris, the acclaimed movie and television writer, producer, director, and actor best known for creating the hit ABC sitcom Black-ish. Released on February 25, 2025, this episode delves deep into the themes of failure, resilience, creativity, and personal growth, offering listeners a rich exploration of what it truly means to "fail better."

1. Introduction and Personal Connections

• David Duchovny opens the conversation by expressing his admiration for Kenya Barris, highlighting their friendship and mutual respect. (02:28)

  "Kenya is a thoughtful, vulnerable guy, beautiful guy, and I always enjoy talking to him."

• Kenya Barris responds warmly, setting a comfortable tone for the discussion. (02:33)

2. Navigating Multiple Pilots and Creative Persistence

• David inquires about Kenya's experience with creating 18 pilots before achieving success with Black-ish. (02:34)

  "One that’s near and dear to my heart is the 2023 movie You People, which I acted in."

• Kenya shares his mindset during these challenging times, emphasizing the importance of casting and staying true to his authentic voice. (04:03)

  "I was getting so frustrated. I thought, 'I'm not going to tell someone else's story. I'm going to really just tell my story.'"

• He discusses the transition from pandering to creating genuine, character-driven content, which ultimately led to the success of Black-ish. (05:25)

3. The Importance of Structure and Collaboration in Creativity

• David emphasizes the critical role of structure in storytelling and how it underpins the effectiveness of humor and character development. (07:54)

  "You need the skeleton. And if you get the skeleton and you get the right people together, then you can work from it."

• Kenya concurs, highlighting his lifelong passion for storytelling and the influence of literature and comic books on his appreciation for well-structured narratives. (09:22)

  "The best writers, the best storytellers, their structure and their character."

4. Crafting a Unique Voice and Broadening Appeal

• David probes Kenya on how he cultivates his unique voice in his work, ensuring it resonates authentically with audiences. (10:25)

  "How do you court it? How do you get into that zone?"

• Kenya explains that his voice stems from a genuine passion for his subjects, ensuring that each character remains authentic and distinct. He emphasizes the importance of casting the right actors to bring these characters to life. (11:09)

  "Make sure you keep each of those characters an individual person."

5. Exploring Black Satire and Cultural Representation

• A significant portion of the conversation centers around Kenya's exploration of black satire and the challenges of creating grounded, satirical content within the constraints of mainstream media. (17:03)

  "We don't get to take satirical things that are really real and grounded and make light of them in a purposedly real way."

• David and Kenya discuss the importance of authenticity in satire and how it can bridge cultural gaps, making it both relatable and thought-provoking. (19:07)

  "We have to be critical of one another in public... But we can't speak ill of our work because we haven't had mainstream acceptance yet."

6. Personal Struggles and the Role of Parenting in Creativity

• Kenya opens up about his struggles with academic failures, particularly in organic chemistry, and how these experiences shaped his career choices. (23:32)

  "I was pretty good at math... But organic chemistry combined math with science in a way I did not handle well."

• The conversation transitions to the profound impact of fatherhood on Kenya's work, revealing how his role as a father deeply influences his storytelling and humor. (46:39)

  "A lot of your identity as a father is in your work. A lot of your comedy, a lot of your wisdom."

7. Confronting Fear and Embracing Failure

• David and Kenya delve into the psychology of fear, particularly the fear of failure and humiliation in creative endeavors. (57:50)

  "Fear gives you more life. It makes you aware. It doesn't necessarily have to be seen as a negative thing."

• Kenya shares insights from his experiences directing his first documentary and the empowering feeling that comes from confronting and overcoming fear. (57:42)

  "If you did and you can hold your head high and go do it again, there's something really empowering about that."

8. Reflections on Personal and Professional Growth

• Kenya and David reflect on personal growth, relationships, and the delicate balance between protecting one's family and preparing them for an ever-changing world. (51:07)

  "Between protecting and trying to prepare my kids for the world... It's an impossible Rubik's Cube to fix at any point in life."

• They discuss the importance of taking moments to process reactions and emotions, emphasizing the value of mindfulness in both personal and professional settings. (63:25)

  "Take a little bit more of a moment before I react. It's hard."

9. Closing Thoughts and Mutual Respect

• As the conversation winds down, David expresses his deep appreciation for Kenya's work and personal integrity, highlighting specific episodes that left a lasting impact. (37:44)

  "That episode was just such a brilliance."

• Kenya reciprocates the admiration, acknowledging the support and professionalism he experienced while working with David. (66:33)

  "I appreciate the hard work that you put in and built a brilliant career."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kenya Barris (04:03):

  "I'm not going to tell someone else's story. I'm going to really just tell my story."

• David Duchovny (07:54):

  "You need the skeleton. And if you get the skeleton and you get the right people together, then you can work from it."

• Kenya Barris (17:03):

  "We don't get to take satirical things that are really real and grounded and make light of them in a purposedly real way."

• Kenya Barris (46:39):

  "A lot of your identity as a father is in your work. A lot of your comedy, a lot of your wisdom."

• David Duchovny (57:50):

  "Fear gives you more life. It makes you aware. It doesn't necessarily have to be seen as a negative thing."

Conclusion

This episode of Fail Better provides a profound exploration of Kenya Barris's journey through repeated failures to eventual success, underscored by his commitment to authentic storytelling and cultural representation. Through candid discussions about fear, parenting, and the creative process, David Duchovny and Kenya Barris illuminate the complex interplay between personal struggles and professional triumphs. Listeners are left with a deeper understanding of the resilience required to "fail better" and the transformative power of embracing one's authentic voice.

For those who haven't listened yet, this episode offers valuable insights into overcoming setbacks, the importance of genuine creativity, and the nuanced dynamics of personal growth in the face of failure.