Fail Better with David Duchovny — Failure? Success? Judd Apatow Says Give It 10 Years to Decide

Lemonada Media | Aired: October 28, 2025
Guest: Judd Apatow (comedian, writer, director, producer)
Host: David Duchovny

Episode Overview

This thoughtful and candid episode brings together host David Duchovny and iconic comedy filmmaker Judd Apatow for a deep, funny, and revealing exploration of life’s failures—and how time often redefines their meaning. The pair discuss Apatow’s new book “Comedy Nerd,” the complicated impulse behind hoarding creative memories, the fluctuating nature of creative motivation, and how both failure and success are slippery, shape-shifting concepts. They also delve into what constitutes a creative life, the perils and blessings of public criticism, and the alchemy of making comedy that lasts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Judd Apatow’s “Hoarding” of Creative Memories

• [02:14-04:09] Judd discusses his scrapbook-style memoir, “Comedy Nerd”—a culmination of decades spent saving memorabilia, photographs, and autographs, stretching back to his childhood.
  • “I always say, it’s not hoarding if your shit’s awesome. It’s just having awesome shit.” — Judd Apatow [03:05]
  • Duchovny reflects on the ballast and meaning this nostalgia might give: “It feels like you’re trying to place yourself… it’s very moving to think of you that way.” [04:39]

2. Creativity: Motivation from Pathology or Inspiration?

• [06:00-08:15] Both muse on whether ambitious output springs from insecurity or vibrant creativity.
  • Apatow admits, “There’s always a pure motivation and… a weird, insecure motivation to just keep working… the reason that you work hard is you have just enough doubt to make you continue.” — Judd Apatow [07:56]
  • Duchovny wonders if one can tell the true reason for creative drive, or if that clarity only comes later.

3. Comedy as Self-Exploration and Therapy

• [08:33-11:29] Inspired by Gary Shandling, Apatow learned to mine his own neuroses and pain for stories, evolving beyond writing jokes for others.
  • “You write the movie to figure out why you’re writing the movie.” — Judd Apatow [08:44]
  • Stories on collaborating with Paul Feig for "Freaks and Geeks"—mining embarrassing real-life experiences for comedic material.

4. Evolution of Creative Process

• [12:00-13:27] Apatow opens up about his early (abortive) acting ambitions and the humiliations that steered him towards writing and producing. Hilariously describes a disastrous commercial audition involving duct tape:
  • “He taped my hand to my leg so that I wouldn’t point… I never auditioned again.” — Judd Apatow [13:11]

5. Dealing with Age, Change, and Staying Funny

• [20:04-23:05] They comically ruminate on the fear of losing touch with contemporary humor.
  • “The thing about not being funny is when you become unfunny, you don’t know it really. That… is a really scary thought.” — Judd Apatow [20:58]
  • Reflection on working with collaborators of different ages to keep creativity fresh.

6. Defining and Measuring Success and Failure

• [28:41-32:14] The meaning of success is (always) elusive and sometimes only becomes clear with the passage of years.
  • “You really don’t know if what you’ve done is good for about 10 years after.” — Warren Beatty (as quoted by Apatow) [29:00]
  • Many works that were panned on release (“The Cable Guy,” “Walk Hard,” “Zoolander”) are now beloved.

7. Navigating Criticism, Reviews, and Public Reaction

• [31:25-36:04] The sting of negative reviews vs. learning from them; the shifting landscape of criticism in the internet age.
  • “Every once in a while, someone writes something in a review that… just finds the thing that hurts you the most.” — Judd Apatow [32:17]
  • Duchovny recounts being called “the tofu of actors”—a label that lingers.

8. Failure, Recovery, and Resilience in Showbiz

• [42:35-44:41] Both agree that movies are hard whether they succeed or fail, and the key is not giving up after a bad reception—Apatow focuses on “grinding” and reworking a project stubbornly until he’s satisfied.
  • “My worst fear is… I’ll just see one of my movies and be really ashamed that anyone’s watching it.” — Judd Apatow [43:26]

9. Documentary Filmmaking: Finding the Human Truth

• [47:50-53:18] Apatow describes the intent behind his documentaries about Mel Brooks and Garry Shandling—going beyond funny anecdotes to deeper emotional honesty.
  • “I approached it like I’m basically a copycat of Mel Brooks… now, as me being older and him being older, to go, oh, tell me about your ride. What was it like?” — Judd Apatow [49:47]
  • Duchovny and Apatow discuss the emotional resonance of Shandling’s life and the impact of childhood loss on lifelong creativity.

10. Meaning, Sincerity, and the Search for Connection

• [54:04-55:11] Duchovny reads a stirring passage from the end of Apatow’s book:
  • “Life is so wonderful, but also so mysterious, dark, and strange. We all need a language to try to understand and get through it. This is mine.” — David Duchovny, reading Judd Apatow [54:18]
  • Apatow recounts a recent ayahuasca vision about community and brotherhood, ending on a note of irreverent sincerity.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You don’t really know what that thing is you’re trying to make until you make it.” — David Duchovny [08:15]
• “We get to create and have fun with so many amazing people... I hope that continues going forward, at least in a slightly less neurotic way.” — Judd Apatow [24:30]
• “Each thing you do is such an experiment that the last one working has absolutely nothing to do in helping you make this one work.” — Judd Apatow [26:33]
• On criticism:
  • “Do you ever remember any of the good ones?” — Duchovny [33:54]
  • “I don’t believe them anyway.” — Apatow [33:55]
• “Comedy, I think.” — Judd Apatow (on which language helps get through life: comedy or filmmaking?) [54:18]
• “It’s as simple as that. I’m not converting, but I did feel the need to buy the New Testament.” — Judd Apatow, on a psychedelic trip epiphany [54:43]

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Timestamp (MM:SS) | Topic/Segment | |-------------------|--------------| | 02:14 - 04:09 | Judd’s hoarding and creative nostalgia | | 06:00 - 08:15 | The line between creative inspiration and neurosis | | 08:33 - 11:29 | Comedy as personal therapy; mining trauma for stories | | 12:00 - 13:27 | Early acting humiliation — the Jack in the Box audition | | 20:04 - 23:05 | Fear of losing comedic “touch” with age | | 28:41 - 32:14 | Defining success: the 10-year rule | | 31:25 - 36:04 | Surviving criticism and negative reviews | | 42:35 - 44:41 | On never giving up after a flop; the editing grind | | 47:50 - 53:18 | Making meaningful documentaries; Mel Brooks & Garry Shandling | | 54:04 - 55:11 | Final reflections: the search for meaning and community |

Tone and Style

Conversational, self-deprecating, honest, and laced with deadpan wit. Duchovny’s curiosity and openness pair well with Apatow’s vulnerability and comedic awareness, resulting in a discussion that is both reflective and playfully irreverent.

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in how failure seeds creative growth, why public reception is so unpredictable, and how even the most successful artists never quite shake their doubts.
Key takeaway: Time often proves what is truly meaningful; failure is not the end, but another step in the (sometimes hilarious) search for meaning and connection.