Fail Better with David Duchovny

Episode: Gene Simmons: The Demon Loves His Mom

Release Date: September 9, 2025
Host: David Duchovny
Guest: Gene Simmons (KISS co-founder, "The Demon")

Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging, revealing conversation between David Duchovny and Gene Simmons, the iconic co-founder of the band KISS. Duchovny probes Simmons on the show's central theme—failure—and how it intertwines with Gene's relentless drive, reinventions, and rock star persona. The discussion explores Simmons' immigrant roots, his entrepreneurial acumen, personal philosophy on success and criticism, the creation of KISS's legendary personas, and the deep influence of his mother, a Holocaust survivor, on his life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reinvention, Shark Mentality, and Early Band Days

• Reinvention and Survival: Duchovny opens by noting Simmons' constant reinvention, likening him to a shark that must keep moving to survive. Simmons jokes, "You mean did I want to wear more makeup and higher heels than your mommy because of a shark? No, because I wanted a lot of money and chicks." (02:22)
• Early Music and Gut Instinct: KISS's creative vision was intuitive, not planned. Simmons credits "singularity"—being in the right place at the right time—and following his gut for their success (02:58–04:11).
• Band as Equals: Inspired by The Beatles, KISS aimed for a band where “everybody in the band was a star.” Simmons explains: “A character is fake. A Persona is more... It's the same person, but with a different mindset.” (16:24)

2. Embracing (and Defining) Failure

• Leaving Wicked Lester: Despite having a record deal at 21, Simmons and Paul Stanley walked away from their band Wicked Lester because it didn’t align with their vision, buying back their own record for $44,000. “We killed it,” Simmons says bluntly of the split (05:57).
• Safety Net & Family: “We did what Jewish boys do. You live with your parents until you can afford to go otherwise. That’s how we know Jesus was Jewish. Right. He lived with his mother until he was 33 years old.” (06:36)
• Reinvention as Necessity: Recognizing they lacked “pretty boy good looks,” KISS crafted their personas and makeup to stand out. Simmons recalls shopping at Woolworths for their first stage makeup (09:27–14:04).

3. Comic Book Influences and Persona Creation

• Immigration and Assimilation: Simmons is an immigrant from Israel. He learned English through TV and comics, which deeply informed the KISS aesthetic (14:09).
• Mother’s Influence: His mother, a Holocaust survivor, is the emotional center of his life. “Just the best mom ever. I couldn’t have made it without my mom.” (15:10)
• From Characters to Personas: “The Personas, not characters, is fake. A Persona is more... what happens to a boxer... that Persona comes out. It’s the same person, but with a different mindset.” (16:24)

4. Business, Branding, and the Role of Money

• Music Business vs Music: “It was never called music. It was always called the music business. And if you don’t pay attention to the business, you will be asking the next person in line, would you like some fries with that?” (19:35)
• Wealth as Goal: Simmons asserts, “No, I always just wanted to make money. Because that’s pragmatism.” (20:06)
• On Criticism: “Money is the salve of everything... Lack of money and failure is the injury.” (46:52–47:12)

5. Iconic KISS Experience and Its Legacy

• The Live Show as Breakthrough: KISS’s pivotal moment was not a hit single but the explosive success of their live album (“Alive!”), the second-ever platinum record after “Hotel California.”
  “The live record was an experience of what it’s like to go to a KISS concert.” (34:46–36:59)
• Licensing and Merchandising: KISS became a $3–4 billion brand through relentless branding—everything from makeup trademarks to “KISS condoms and KISS caskets.” “We got you coming and we got you going.” (56:07)

6. Persona vs. Self and Emotional Armor

• Building the Armor: Simmons admits to constructing emotional armor to survive: “Created armor around me so that I wouldn't be hurt. Change my name, change my appearance, do whatever I have to do to survive and appear stronger and more successful than I am.” (27:02)
• Family as Softener: Despite this, his wife Shannon and his two kids taught him “how to love someone other than yourself.” (41:49–41:54)
• The Mother Shrine: His homes display shrines to his mother; she remained his guiding force and example of resilience (15:10, 43:29).

7. The Demon Persona: Jungian Shadows and Magnetism

• Origin and Fan Naming: The “Demon” persona was named by KISS fans, not the band.
• Psychopathology as Survival: Simmons believes we all have an “inner psychopath” for survival—his Demon is “a benevolent psychopath.” (50:14)
• Appeal to Outcasts: KISS provided refuge for marginal or judged fans, especially teenage boys, and by extension, drew interest from women: “Because teenage boys were attracted to that, straight women mostly were also attracted to that power and that thing.” (53:56)
• Persona as Liberation: He credits the Demon with expressing power men are often told to repress in contemporary culture.

8. Personal Philosophy on Criticism, Failure, and Self-Belief

• On Not Caring About Criticism: “What does that mean? Do I have my mother’s hips?” (46:32)
• Fuck Failure Attitude: Simmons dismisses lingering on past failures—just keep taking new shots: “Failure means nothing. You get up and try again.” (24:29, 50:49)
• Delusion as Power: “Be delusional about yourself. Be like me... who gives a fuck what anybody says about you? Everybody’s got an opinion.” (50:21)

9. KISS’s Next Frontier and Simmons’s Hustle

• The Enduring Brand: KISS is set for a new era, with a motion picture, avatars shows (immersive virtual concert experiences), new licensing, and merchandising. “There’s going to be cartoons and traveling KISS shows and all that.” (55:35)
• Gene as Operator: Simmons quips, “We were nuts. We wanted to increase the experience.” (31:51)

10. Memorable Banter & Self-Awareness

• Deadpan Play:
  • Duchovny: “My mouth barely moves when I talk. It’s called deadpan.” (57:14–57:48)
  • Simmons: “You barely move your mouth when you talk. I don’t know how you do that.” (57:39)

Notable Quotes

• On Persona and Armor:

  “Created armor around me so that I wouldn't be hurt. Change my name, change my appearance, do whatever I have to do to survive and appear stronger and more successful than I am.”
  — Gene Simmons, 27:02

• On Failure and Delusion:

  “Be delusional about yourself. Be like me... who gives a fuck what anybody says about you? Everybody's got an opinion. Not everybody likes Jesus.”
  — Gene Simmons, 50:21

• On KISS’s Philosophical Roots:

  “The Personas, not characters…a Persona is what happens to a boxer, let’s say, out of the ring…when he gets into the ring, that Persona comes out. It’s the same person, but with a different mindset.”
  — Gene Simmons, 16:24

• On Family and Maternal Influence:

  “I couldn't have made it without my mom.”
  — Gene Simmons, 15:10
  “Shannon and your two kids... taught you how to love someone other than yourself.”
  — David Duchovny, 41:49–41:54

• On Money and Success:

  “Money is the salve of everything... Lack of money and failure is the injury.”
  — Gene Simmons, 46:52–47:12

• On Audience Refuge:

  “The KISS army... it’s a refuge for outcasts… for people who are actually on the margins.”
  — David Duchovny, 33:02

• On Show as Escape:

  “The experience and the electric church of it to make you forget about the traffic jam and the fact that your girlfriend’s screaming at you.”
  — Gene Simmons, 32:51

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:58 – 06:36: Early reinvention, leaving Wicked Lester, importance of gut
• 09:27 – 14:04: KISS makeup origins, comic book influence, Persona creation
• 15:10 – 16:24: Mother as influence, shrink-to-persona transition
• 19:35 – 20:12: Business over music, drive to make money
• 34:39 – 36:59: KISS’s breakthrough with the live album, platinum certification
• 43:29 – 45:37: Simmons’ mother, her survival, and his devotion
• 46:52 – 47:29: Gene on criticism, money as emotional salve
• 50:21 – 50:49: Delusion, fuck failure, advice to ignore critics
• 53:56 – 54:34: Why the Demon persona appeals, fanbase, naming
• 55:35 – 56:07: KISS's future: avatars, movies, cartoons, merchandising

Memorable Moments

• Jewish Mother Humor:
  “That’s how we know Jesus was Jewish. Right. He lived with his mother until he was 33 years old.” — Gene Simmons, 06:36

• The Demon and the Teenage Audience:
  “Because teenage boys were attracted to that, straight women mostly were also attracted to that power and that thing.” — Gene Simmons, 54:09

• On Constructing Persona:
  “The fans … they started calling me the Demon, and they started calling Paul the Star Child.” — Gene Simmons, 54:36

• Branding, Condoms, and Caskets:
  “We’ve had KISS condoms and KISS caskets. We got you coming and we got you going. See what I did there?” — Gene Simmons, 56:07

Tone

Gene Simmons is both grandiose and self-deprecating, mixing braggadocio (“I’m kind of a big deal”) with earnest vulnerability about his immigrant background and devotion to his mother. Duchovny keeps things wry and probing, often steering the conversation back to the theme of failure, and seeking emotional depth beneath Simmons’ armor. The dynamic is engaging, direct, and layered with humor, candor, and philosophical asides.

Summary for New Listeners

This podcast episode offers an entertaining, surprisingly introspective journey into the mentality, myth, and humanity of Gene Simmons—a rock legend who has failed, reinvented, and armored himself through both business acumen and deep personal pain. If you've ever wondered how a poor immigrant from Israel became the mastermind behind one of rock’s most profitable brands, or why he doesn’t care what critics think, this episode covers it all—with KISS’s signature spectacle and a love letter to Simmons’ mother at its core.