Fail Better with David Duchovny: Episode Summary
Episode: Looking Back: Ben Stiller and the Curse of the Sequel
Release Date: December 31, 2024
Host: David Duchovny
Guest: Ellie Kemper
Produced by: Lemonada Media
1. Introduction to Fail Better
[00:01] David Duchovny opens the episode by introducing his new podcast, Fail Better, which explores the multifaceted nature of failure. Drawing inspiration from Samuel Beckett’s adage, “Fail again. Fail better,” Duchovny delves into personal and professional setbacks, aiming to transform shame into growth and humor.
David Duchovny: “I felt like I've been failing my entire life. So on some level, I can speak from plenty of experience.”
2. The Genesis of Fail Better and First Interview
Duchovny reflects on his own failures, including House of D, which received harsh reviews. This experience sparked his interest in understanding and redefining failure. He shares a pivotal moment where he realized that an "F" didn’t signify death but rather liberation from his fear of failure.
David Duchovny: “I realized that you don't die when you get an F. And I'm so happy now, all these years later, to have gotten that F and to have been somewhat freed from the tyranny of pass/fail.”
He introduces Ellie Kemper as his first guest, highlighting their shared history in projects like Zoolander and The Cable Guy. This conversation sets the tone for exploring how failure has shaped their careers and personal lives.
3. Navigating Professional Failures
[08:15] Ellie Kemper recounts her experiences with failed projects, such as The Cable Guy and Zoolander 2. She discusses the emotional impact of negative reviews and box office performances, emphasizing how these setbacks led her to pivot towards directing and developing new projects that aligned more closely with her creative vision.
Ellie Kemper: “After Zoolander 2 didn't perform well, I had the space to develop Escape from Dannemora, which was transformative for me.”
Duchovny shares his own early career struggles, including a commercial for Lowenbrow beer where he felt overwhelmed by his attempts to appear natural, highlighting the universal challenge of striving for perfection in creative endeavors.
David Duchovny: “I was trying to get it right, get it right, get it right. And I just wanted to... Do work.”
4. Early Career Lessons and Learning to Cope
Both Duchovny and Kemper discuss their first jobs in the industry, the nerves involved, and the invaluable lessons learned from making mistakes. They highlight the importance of resilience and the ability to move forward despite setbacks.
Ellie Kemper: “When the movie comes out, it doesn't do well, you always get a lot of congratulations when things are going well. When something isn't good, it's just silence.”
David Duchovny: “When I first started acting, I was like, I'm fantastic. I'm just gonna get like. There's an eagerness that is kind of winning.”
5. Personal Growth Through Failure
The conversation shifts to personal development, where both discuss how failures have led to significant growth. Duchovny shares his journey of accepting failure as a part of life, leading to a sense of freedom and reduced fear of judgment.
David Duchovny: “There’s a sense in which failure looms over us, and I want to know what's good about that.”
Kemper echoes this sentiment, illustrating how professional failures forced her to explore directing and other creative outlets she might not have otherwise pursued.
Ellie Kemper: “Over the course of the next nine or ten months, I was able to develop out this limited series, Escape from Dannemora... It was really transformative.”
6. Balancing Career and Parenthood Amid Failures
Both guests delve into the complexities of balancing demanding careers with family life. They candidly share their struggles with being away from their children due to work commitments and the emotional toll it takes. Duchovny reflects on modeling resilience for his children, while Kemper discusses creating meaningful connections despite her busy schedule.
David Duchovny: “Is the balance, like, I'm just going to be your father... Or am I into my life and my work and my world?”
Ellie Kemper: “As a parent, you always think about the things you could have done better, like to be around more.”
7. Reflections on Parental Influence and Creative Expression
Kemper shares insights into how her parents' careers in performance arts influenced her own creative path. She discusses the blending of personal life and professional performance, revealing how early exposure to her parents’ acting shaped her desire to be involved in the filmmaking process.
Ellie Kemper: “We would act out the first act of Jesus Christ Superstar for our parents... trying to get their attention.”
David Duchovny: “I think there's something about watching your parents on TV... that reality seemed more interesting to me than the reality of our lives.”
8. Embracing Authenticity and Overcoming Shame
In the closing segments, Duchovny and Kemper emphasize the importance of authenticity in overcoming shame associated with failure. They discuss how embracing one’s true self and learning from setbacks can lead to profound personal and professional fulfillment.
David Duchovny: “Failure and expectation are twins. Never quite what you imagine, never quite the expected.”
Ellie Kemper: “We connect on other levels about the work... that's just what would have been if I was home all the time being the dad.”
9. Final Thoughts and Moving Forward
Duchovny concludes the episode by reflecting on his own experiences as a first-time interviewer, appreciating Kemper’s generosity and insights. He acknowledges the ongoing journey of understanding failure and sets the stage for future episodes where deeper questions about the emotional and spiritual processes of failing better will be explored.
David Duchovny: “You can’t just play Major League Baseball right away, can you? But that's what we expect sometimes, of ourselves, isn't it?”
Ellie Kemper: “I like talking about this stuff. I think it's good for me personally, like, to talk it through.”
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
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[08:15]
Ellie Kemper: “After Zoolander 2 didn't perform well, I had the space to develop Escape from Dannemora, which was transformative for me.” -
[13:11]
David Duchovny: “Just come and drum. That's cause I'm an idiot.” -
[21:48]
Ellie Kemper: “Anytime you're like, forced to just be with yourself, usually good things come out of that because there are so many distractions in success.” -
[39:32]
David Duchovny: “I was always like embracing their failures... and I never knew if that was the right thing to be doing.” -
[44:16]
Reshma Sajani: [Advertisement segment, skipped]
Conclusion
In this episode of Fail Better, David Duchovny and Ellie Kemper engage in a heartfelt dialogue about the pervasive role of failure in shaping their careers and personal lives. Through candid storytelling and mutual understanding, they illustrate how embracing failure can lead to growth, improved self-awareness, and authentic living. This conversation not only provides valuable insights for listeners grappling with their own setbacks but also sets the foundation for future explorations into the nuanced processes of failing better.
Listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.