Roads Taken and Not Taken with Jason Beghe

Summary

Fail Better with David Duchovny: Episode Summary – "Roads Taken and Not Taken with Jason Beghe"

Release Date: October 15, 2024
Guest: Jason Beghe
Host: David Duchovny
Produced by: Lemonada Media

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Introduction

In this deeply personal and introspective episode of Fail Better with David Duchovny, host David Duchovny sits down with his longtime friend and fellow actor, Jason Beghe. The conversation delves into the complexities of their enduring friendship, Jason's involvement and eventual departure from Scientology, and the broader themes of failure, trust, and personal growth.

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A Half-Century of Friendship

[00:48] David Duchovny: “I'm David Duchovny and this is Fail Better. A show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Today's show is a little different because I'm going to talk a little bit about something that I consider a personal failure, and it involves today's guest who is also one of my closest friends.”

David introduces the episode by framing it around a personal failure related to his friendship with Jason Beghe, setting the tone for an honest and vulnerable discussion.

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Jason Beghe’s Journey into Acting

[18:40] Jason Beghe: “All my life, people always said I was going to be an actor because I was funny and shiny. But when I took my first acting class, I thought it was easy to get credits, but realized how challenging it truly was.”

Jason recounts his initial foray into acting during high school, influenced by peers and mentors like Milton Katselas. He shares his early struggles and the pivotal moments that solidified his passion for acting despite societal expectations.

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The Scientology Chapter

[22:52] Jason Beghe: “I recruited myself into Scientology. I admired Milton Katselas, who was deeply involved, and through acting, I found my way into the church.”

Jason explains how his connection with Scientology began through his acting mentor. Initially drawn in by personal growth opportunities, he became deeply entrenched in the church, spending significant time and money.

[28:07] Jason Beghe: “I bought my entire Bridge to Clear, spending about $50,000 in just two days. It was about learning to trust myself, but ultimately, it led to betrayal.”

He details the financial and emotional investments made into Scientology, highlighting the intense commitment and the eventual disillusionment that prompted his exit from the church.

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David’s Reflection on Friendship and Failure

[38:27] Jason Beghe: “Looking back, your behavior as a friend was almost perfect. You never made me wrong or judged me overtly, which forced me to respect your stance without feeling pressured.”

Jason reflects on David’s approach during his involvement with Scientology, appreciating his friend’s non-confrontational yet supportive demeanor.

[42:45] David Duchovny: “When you were in Scientology, it became like your career. You stopped working quite a bit; it was more important to you than...”

David shares his feelings of regret for not addressing the issue more directly, perceiving it as a failure to support his friend adequately.

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Jason’s Exit and Personal Growth

[32:58] Jason Beghe: “When I found my way out, I realized I could no longer trust anyone, including myself. It taught me to rely solely on myself.”

Jason discusses the profound impact of leaving Scientology, which led to a deep-seated mistrust but also a newfound sense of self-reliance and clarity about his personal identity.

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Rebuilding and Strengthening the Friendship

[48:11] Jason Beghe: “You understand me better than I understand myself. Giving myself credit for the first time makes me feel good about who I am.”

The conversation reaches an emotional peak as Jason acknowledges the unique understanding and enduring bond he shares with David, reinforcing the strength of their friendship despite past challenges.

[48:35] David Duchovny: “I love you. It's not something that people talk about either. It's not something that actors get credit for either. So I'd like to give you that credit.”

David reciprocates Jason’s sentiments, emphasizing the rarity and value of their longstanding friendship.

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Insights on Failure, Trust, and Personal Growth

Throughout the episode, both David and Jason explore themes of failure—not as a negative endpoint but as a catalyst for growth and deeper understanding. They discuss the importance of trust in relationships, the challenges of confronting loved ones about sensitive issues, and the ways in which enduring friendships can provide stability and perspective through life's tumultuous changes.

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Conclusion

In "Roads Taken and Not Taken with Jason Beghe," Fail Better with David Duchovny offers listeners a heartfelt exploration of friendship tested by personal struggles and ideological conflicts. David and Jason's candid dialogue serves as a testament to the resilience of human connections and the potential for failure to ultimately lead to greater personal and relational understanding.

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Notable Quotes

• David Duchovny [00:48]: “We know each other when we met when we were 14... We know so many different versions of each other.”

• Jason Beghe [22:52]: “I recycled the management strategy of Scientology... I felt separate from my identity.”

• Jason Beghe [32:58]: “I can't trust anybody again. That's what I learned.”

• Jason Beghe [48:11]: “You understand me better than I understand myself.”

• David Duchovny [48:35]: “It's not something that people talk about either. It's not something that actors get credit for either. So I'd like to give you that credit.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the significance of confronting and embracing failures within personal relationships. David and Jason illustrate that acknowledging and discussing past shortcomings can lead to healing and strengthened bonds. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own relationships and consider how embracing failure can pave the way for meaningful growth and connection.

For more insightful conversations on failure and personal growth, subscribe to Fail Better with David Duchovny wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code. Look, I'd consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. I've written books, founded two successful nonprofits, and I'm raising two incredible kids. But here's the thing. I still wake up wondering, is this it? And if the best years are yet to come, when's that going to start? Join me on my so Called Midlife, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, where we're building a playbook for navigating midlife one episode at a time. Each week, I'll chat with extraordinary guests who've transformed their midlife crisis into opportunities for growth and newfound purpose. At some point, we all ask ourselves, is there more to life? I'm here to discover how to thrive in my second act right alongside you. My so Called Midlife is out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ellie Kemper from the Office and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. And this is my fantastically funny friend, Scott Eckert.

[Jason Beghe]

Hi, everyone.

[Reshma Sajani]

We host a podcast called Born to Love. It's a show where we talk to the people we love about the things they love.

[Jason Beghe]

Each week we bring on a celebrity guest to discuss their secret passion.

[Ellie Kemper]

Did you know that my friend Jenna.

[Reshma Sajani]

Fisher loves Keanu Reeves movies? She does, she does. And how about Al Roker, Samantha Bee.

[Jason Beghe]

Tony Hawk, Jane Lynch? What do they love, Ellie? You have to listen to the show to find out.

[Reshma Sajani]

So check out Born to Love wherever.

[Ellie Kemper]

You get your podcast from Lemonada Media.

[Reshma Sajani]

Lemonada.

[David Duchovny]

I'm David Duchovny and this is Fail Better. A show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Today's show is a little different because I'm going to talk a little bit about something that I consider a personal failure, and it involves today's guest who is also one of my closest friends. His name is Jason Begay and I met him five decades ago at Collegiate High School in New York. And we've been here through all the milestones you pass in life, like love and loss and ups and downs in kids careers. We've known so many different versions of each other. We know each other when we met when we were 14. Jason is best known today as Sergeant Hank Voigt in the NBC series Chicago PD. He's been playing this iconic character since 2014. He's also acted alongside me in the X Files and as novelist Richard Bates on Californication. And he's in my latest movie, Reverse the Curse, now on Hulu. And it's kind of inspiring to me how he got into acting, and we'll talk about that a little bit. But the other thing, big thing to know is that Jason is a former Scientologist. He first got involved in the 90s, and at that point he and I drifted apart a bit. And we haven't really talked about that in depth until today. And, you know, as a Fail Better podcast, I conceived of this conversation. And wanting to get Jason on, aside from the fact that I think he's a unique kind of mind and perception of the world, was the fact that while he was a Scientologist and got deeply into it for over a decade, easily I felt my friendship. I felt that I failed him as a friend. I failed in warning him and thinking, you know, I thought, this is a cult. This is not a good thing to be involved in. But I didn't press those like a good friend might, I think. And it's haunted me a bit ever since, even as we become very close again and repaired whatever fractures were in the relationship caused by that time. But it has been something that's weighed on me and I see as a failure, a failure of, like, nerve, a failure of confrontation. But it's an interesting thing and I think an educational thing or relatable thing for people to hear, how we sometimes can fail friends or we fail them out of love. We don't want to confront them. We don't want to tell them that they're wrong or they're full of shit, because we think they're going to get there themselves somehow. It's not our place. All these things that went through my head at the time and, you know, there was all a part of me that was like, hey, maybe he's got the answer. Maybe he's right and I'm wrong. That was in there, too. But anyway, we get to all of it and hopefully with a good sense of humor that's always been a foundational part of our friendship, is just laughing our fucking asses off. Here's Jason Beghe. How you doing?

[Jason Beghe]

I'm okay.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah?

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

What's wrong?

[Jason Beghe]

Uh, nothing, actually. No, I just. Sometimes I get frazzled. Yeah, you know, a little bit frazzled. But generally I'm good. Too good, probably.

[David Duchovny]

That sounds a little superstitious. Too good is fine. No, no, I never think it's too good. No. Because I rarely make that kind of assumption. I can I turn it into bad immediately before it comes out as too good.

[Jason Beghe]

Me, I feel like things are so good that I've lived long enough to know that they don't last. So I kind of like. I go outside, first thing I do is check the sky for a falling shoe.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

Could be an anvil. Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

You don't see that much anymore. In the cartoons. It used to be falling pianos all the time. Yeah. That's a good place to start for me, because I wanted to just say that I've known you for 50 years.

[Jason Beghe]

Is that funny now? It's 50.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

We just hit 50 this year, I believe.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Well, I met you when I was 14. Yeah. Freshman year of high school. And I would say that I wouldn't be an actor if not for you, because you were the first. You and Maggie. Maggie Jacobson Wheeler were the only actors that I ever knew, were the only people that I ever knew who thought of pursuing acting as an actual profession. And I think I've said this to you, is that you were always your own man. Even at 14, you were not part of whatever herd there was. You had your own opinions, you had your own likes. You didn't have many dislikes. You were never a hater, but you liked jazz, you know, Eric Gale. You were, like, turning on to Eric Gale, you know. I don't think I ever heard you talk about Saturday Night Live, you know, that wasn't a thing. You know, you weren't part. You weren't part of popular culture. You were in the midst of kind of creating your own culture in some way, from a place of, it seemed just curiosity and not accepting. Not accepting what the system was telling you. And I wonder if you had a sense of that as a kid, where you think that came from, if you've ever thought about it that way.

[Jason Beghe]

I guess that was oddly moving for me, to hear you say that. I also feel like, in a sense, because I hadn't really thought of myself like that, but I felt. Because I don't think of myself as different or. Well, I do, I guess when I think of myself, I guess I go, I guess I'm different, but I don't.

[David Duchovny]

Different how? When you think of yourself, I guess I'm different. Different how? How do you mean that?

[Jason Beghe]

Like the way you were saying that I don't follow every. The herd.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Jason Beghe]

I feel misunderstood. I'm. I'm used to it.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I think you were misunderstood then. At 14. I think you were misunderstood.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah. Yeah, I know. And I. And I even used to say, who are you? Who are you? And I would look in the mirror at a very young age, trying to see who the fuck I was. And I couldn't see myself, you know, because there Was this resistance and being told, this is who you are, and feeling like that's. That's not who I am.

[David Duchovny]

And we went to Collegiate, you know, which was a very establishment, I guess, the most establishment school, you know, so you had. You had exposure on all sides to, you know, you had entry. You had entry to a system that you apparently didn't have that much interest in, you know, that you were more interested in creating your own kind of pathway, which to me was. His was ballsy and a mark of a curious, imaginative human being.

[Jason Beghe]

I never considered the other way, though. I didn't want to fit in. Like that kind of middle class accepted normal. Never seemed interesting or desirable. It seemed dangerous and a trap, like a killer.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you see me coming at you like I'm coming from my mom, who is instilling the fear in me of, we're barely in the middle class here, so you've got to hang on and you've got to do better. And there I am. And then I go to this school, which is going to be my ticket.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

Out and out and in. And I meet you and. And it's. I'm lucky, I feel lucky that I met you. And I'm not denigrating Collegiate or that world at all. You know, we got. We got great educations there. But it was really this sense of interrogating that pathway, you know, from you, which was like. Well, I'm not, you know, you didn't say it, but it's like, I'm not accepting what I'm being given here as a given. You know, I'm just kind of out here free. You were very free. And like, I mean, a nickname, Bam Bam, which was not only because you were a man among boys, for one, you went through puberty at like 5 or 6, I think, right?

[Jason Beghe]

Bam Bam.

[David Duchovny]

So Bam Bam, for those who don't know, was the son of. In the Flintstones. And he was really strong and he had his club and he'd go, bam, Bam. And he'd bust. He'd bust things up. And you were. It was. It made sense for you to me, because both you were super strong. And secondly, you did bust things up. You were like a catalyst of change and not. Not necessarily of chaos, but you were a wild card. And like, for me, again, coming back to, like, me looking at you, I'm like, wow, this is like, there's like a free zone around this guy. Like, wherever this guy's moving, he's creating like a new environment. He's creating new laws or no laws. Or whatever. And that was so cool for me because I'm, like, terrified. I want to follow all the rules. I don't want to get in trouble. And so how does that play into things, like, specifically?

[Jason Beghe]

Well, I felt there's that whole sense of immortality at that age, right. That I may have had a little bit more than most. But in terms of, like, not giving a fuck about the grades or all that stuff, I could have, I think. Or no, I don't, because of the ADHD or whatever that bam, bam is, I just couldn't do it. I know I could have probably focused and stuff like that, but it would have been such a strain that I probably just actually could not. I mean, if it was a matter of life and death, I could have, but I didn't feel like I had a choice. And so I had to play the card that I had. And I tried to enjoy it and lean into it. I'm grateful that I didn't feel like, what's wrong with me? Or it's just like, okay, fuck it, you know, I guess I didn't get an ace. Let's bluff. Let's play this hand. Let's try to have some fun. You know what I mean? Let's see what happens. Like, later, years later, I heard a quote that I've held onto ever since, not to equate myself with him, but somebody asked Picasso, how do you paint a painting like Guernica? How do you plan that? And he said, I paint the picture to find out what it looks like.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Jason Beghe]

So I feel like, what. That since there was no rules and I wasn't playing in a system, there was no painting by the numbers because I didn't know where it was going. I just had to kind of paint the picture to find out what it looks like.

[David Duchovny]

Right?

[Jason Beghe]

And that doesn't mean that along the way, you can't, like, look at something and think, this sucks, and throw it away and just keep painting, you know, try another one. You know what I mean?

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Jason Beghe]

I didn't have a choice, so I made the most out of it. Like, you know how you were so disciplined and worked hard and, you know, you were such a good boy, the head boy and all this, you know, you were perfect in so many ways. And I was not built like that. I wasn't drawn like that. I was. I couldn't do it. You know, you. I admire. Like, I feel like it's funny, like, one of the things, like, when you talk about our relationship, which is a very. You know, I don't know about you, but I don't have close relationships for 50 years. It's you and that's it.

[David Duchovny]

It's just you and you and Matty Warshaw for me.

[Jason Beghe]

There you go. And it's Maddie, right?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

But the thing is, like, when I look at you and me, I think of it like puzzle pieces. Like, I remember the first thing I said to you. You showed up at Collegiate nervous kid. And I looked at you and I. And I went over to you. It was in Ms. Barr's science, whatever that was, chemistry or biology bio. And I go, hey, what's your name? You David. I said, I'm Jason. I got a feeling you and I are going to be friends. And I was right. It's a wonderful kind of a way to meet somebody and be right about it. But as it turns out, you know, that discipline and that undiscipline that I have, those two puzzle pieces fed each other and I think that I wouldn't be, as you know, the success that I've had as an actor, a lot of it is from the discipline. Discipline that I learned from you.

[David Duchovny]

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[Ellie Kemper]

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[Reshma Sajani]

Hi, I'm Emily Deschanel. And I'm Carla Gallo. And we're excited to tell you about Bone Heads, our new Bones Rewatch podcast. I played Dr. Temperance and I played Daisy Wick. And we are gonna watch from the very beginning. We're gonna watch the episodes, we're gonna reminisce, we're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry, we're gonna tell behind the scenes stories, we're gonna go on tangents, a lot of tangents. So whether you're a seasoned Bones fanatic or a newcomer looking to dip your toes into the wild world of forensic anthropology, this show is for you. Boneheads from Lemonada Media is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Duchovny]

It was with acting that you found a place and you got into acting when we were in college. So I didn't, I wasn't there when you got into acting. And I'm just wondering what was the feeling when you first started doing it? What part of you was being fed? What was the lightning bolt? Because it really, it hit and, you know, it's never left you.

[Jason Beghe]

Well, here's the funny thing. All my life. You came to Collegiate in ninth grade. Yeah, high school. Ever since I was a kid, I would go to people's. Michael Newhouse's house, Mario, all these, you know, Chauncey Parker, Chris Huntington. I'd go to their houses and their parents say, oh my God, you're going to be an actor.

[David Duchovny]

Really?

[Jason Beghe]

All my life. Because I was, you know, like this kind of funny, shiny.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

Show off. He kind of whatever I was, you know, I had a little pizzazz and. And I was free.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

You know, I didn't, you know, edit myself and I was, you know, but I went to Collegiate where everybody, you know, became somebody with a briefcase and a telephone and. You know what I mean?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

And. And I just. I knew I couldn't. I couldn't make it. You know, there's no way I could sit down all day and talk on the phone and make. I go crazy and. But people used to say that. But I was in this environment where everybody was going to. Bound for Wall street and lots of money, you know, in a country house and all this kind of thing. And I was like, I couldn't do that. But I also knew, no, nobody becomes an actor.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. We didn't know anybody. We didn't know anybody.

[Jason Beghe]

And I remember when I went to college, I. I thought, oh, I'll take. I'll take an acting class because it seems easy to me, and, you know, I can get the credits, you know, it's easy, right? And I went to my first acting class, and it was not just one period. It was two periods in a row. And it was kind of interesting and, you know, whatever. But I went up after the class when it was finally over. That was the first time I'd ever been in a classroom for like 80 fucking minutes straight, or maybe it was 90, I don't know. But I was like, listen, I'm going to drop out of your class. Thank you. It seemed interesting. And he's like, why? I said, it's just not from. He said, I really. He was like, really upset about it. I think you could really be great at this. I said, yeah, it's interesting, but I got to tell you, honestly, there's no way in the world I can sit down for 90 minutes. It's impossible. I cannot do it.

[David Duchovny]

To me. That's such a ballsy thing to say. Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

I said, I'm sorry. I had no idea this was two classes in a row. I can't do it. I was wondering why I only have to meet twice a week for all these credits, but here's the fucking catch. He said, what if I let you sit anywhere? You can lay down, you can move around, you can do whatever you want. He says, seriously? He said, absolutely. I said, deal. I'll stay.

[David Duchovny]

Wow.

[Jason Beghe]

And that's how I ended up doing that.

[David Duchovny]

Well, he saw that in you. That's a wonderful, wonderful mentor story. You know, I'm always looking for those kinds of moments when somebody sees you. You know, somebody sees you. Where I'd like to go now is when I see you. And this is kind of the heart of what I thought would be interesting to talk about with you as well today. And I wanted to frame it in a certain way, which was like the failure of my friendship in a way, you know, with you, and not looking for any kind of forgiveness or absolution or even. Or even for you to agree or disagree. But you became a member of the Church of Scientology in what year? What year is that?

[Jason Beghe]

94.

[David Duchovny]

And I see that as a very rigid system. You know, you went from being a guy who made his own rules and made his own way. And I know that you got that. I know that you got there through an acting class, Right. Through Milton Kinsellas. Right. So the conduit was actually through acting into Scientology. Is that. Is that fair to say?

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

How did that recruit? Would you call it a recruitment? If it was. How did that. How did that happen?

[Jason Beghe]

No, I recruited myself. Like, the way it happened was Milton, you know, I. You know, I'm just going around doing work in LA and being an actor and doing my thing. People always ask you, hey, you're good. You know, who do you study with? And I'd say, Milton Katselis. And then people at work would go, oh, isn't he a Scientologist? I didn't know. He never talked about that. You know, he didn't talk about it. And. And I was. But I admired the. Out of Wilt. Milton. Very perceptive, terrific teacher. Genius, right? Teacher, really. And I learned so much from Milton. So I guess he was. He was a hardcore Scientologist. He was kind of a bad boy Scientologist. He was always in trouble and all, you know, not toe in the line. I guess I found out in retrospect. But Scientologists for many years knew L. Ron Hubbard was kind of L. Ron's one of his little darlings, apparently, I think even, you know, before he died, blah, blah, blah. What about Milton? So, you know, it's one of those classes where when the teacher walks in, you give a hand and he sits down. And he liked to think of himself as. And I thought, earned, you know, a master teacher. And at any rate, one of his idiosyncrasies is from time to time, maybe once every month or six weeks, he didn't like the vibe in the classroom, and he'd stop the fucking class and start attacking the class. You know, the attitude, you know, you have to have the right attitude or I'm not going to teach you. You have to be willing to be taught and, you know, this kind of thing. I'm not here to audition. And he was going on this tirade. And it was like. And I'm always sitting in the front row, like, ready? Let's go. Let's have a class. Because I was. Found something I was interested in, you know, And I could sit there for four hours. I loved it. I loved watching class. I loved to see people get better. I loved it. Like, see. You know, you see the best work you'll ever see in acting class. You'll see somebody who just doesn't get it. All of a sudden, fucking get it. I mean, it's fabulous. And so at a certain point, I felt like it was like this thing. Like, who was it that wasn't trusting Milton? And after about a certain amount of time, could have been as much as a half an hour of this fucking him yelling at us. And I knew it wasn't me because I'm the guy right there, like, hungry. Let's go. And I'm looking around. Who is it? And I thought, huh? And I. At a certain moment, I thought, do I trust Milton? And I really felt it and went, no, I don't. I really. Ultimately, I don't. And then I thought, huh, who do I trust? My parents? No. Any of my friends. And I thought about everybody.

[David Duchovny]

You two?

[Jason Beghe]

No. And I'm, like, feeling worse and worse and worse. This is all going on in my mind. And I said, well, at least I trust myself. And I thought about that and felt it conceptually, and I thought least of all. And I was like, ruined, which is a Scientology thing. That's how they get people in. They find your ruin. I found my own fucking ruin. And for some reason, I just. I don't trust anybody, including myself. And I. And I was like, this is not good. I don't like being this guy. I found this, and I don't like it. And you know me now. That's how I kind of still operate. I try to find things I don't like, and then I attack them. The method I came up to attack, how do I learn to trust? And I thought, let me do something totally, just caution to the wind. And I thought, let me find out what Scientology is. And that's how. And I went up to Bodie Elfman, who was doing a scene with Milton's girlfriend, who was a Scientology. I knew there were Scientology. I said, hey, give me some fucking book on Scientology. Gave me this book called what is Scientology? A lot of pictures this fucking thick. I went through the whole thing that night, and I had done drugs, and I had always felt I'd stopped doing drugs by the time I was in my 30s, but I felt like they had affected me poorly. And there was this whole thing about getting the drugs out of your system. And I thought, okay. And next day, I went in there and I said, hey. And basically, that's how I got into Scientology.

[David Duchovny]

I never knew that. I didn't know that story.

[Jason Beghe]

That's the story. It's because you never asked.

[David Duchovny]

I can't be trusted. I cannot be trusted. No. I know what to expect now. So you get in there, and you. And you. You accept that system fully.

[Jason Beghe]

And the first thing is. Yeah, I was so, like, wanting to, like, let me try this. This sounds good. Costs like, couple of thousand dollars. I got it on me. That's fine. And I go in there. The next day, I want to do this thing called the purif.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

And I'm ready to go. And they, like, they want to give me a tour, and they want to do this. And I'm in there for fucking hours and hours, and I just want to do this thing. But they're trying to sell it to me. And I was there, like, I'm ready. Yeah, let's go. And finally at the end, I said, can I just fucking buy this thing? And they said, okay, yeah.

[David Duchovny]

That was the purification, which was your conception of getting the drugs out of your body. That's taking a lot of niacin and being in a sauna for a long.

[Jason Beghe]

Time, like, five hours a day.

[David Duchovny]

So that's not the philosophy. That's not the system. That's just, like, how you got to get your body and your mind to a certain place before you can even start to. On the road.

[Jason Beghe]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Jason Beghe]

Yes, yes.

[David Duchovny]

So once. Once you start walking down that road, what is it about that system that resonates with you that works? Because it did. It did. And in many ways, it came to a place.

[Jason Beghe]

Full circle. I'll tell you what it is.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

So they tell me that in order to do the purif, you also have to do this thing called trs, which is training, routines, and objectives, which is a way to learn how the end phenomenon of this small course that they claim is to be firmly rooted in the present time.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Jason Beghe]

I said, that sounds fucking good. Okay, give me that, too. So that and the purif together was, you know, whatever, 2,500 bucks. Okay. I said, can I just start this purif thing? They said, well, you got to start the trs. I'm like, okay, back to school, Right? So you read this thing, and you learn about this thing. And basically, you sit three feet away from somebody and you do a thing called TR0, where you just confront a person, and that's the beginning. And there's others. You know, you gotta be able to confront a person who's. Who's, like, pushing your buttons, and there's a whole bunch of stuff. And you learn how to communicate as part of this whole thing. But the first thing is just sit there, be there comfortably, and confront. Which is their definition is face without flinching. And it could be an hour or two or whatever. You're just sitting there looking in somebody's eyes, and they're looking at you. And here's the thing that got me into Scientology, is that I'm doing that exercise. And per their definition, I left my body. They call it going exterior. And I felt separate from my identity and myself. I felt the difference between. Which is another thing I experienced when I died was in the coma.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

Which is I felt a difference between Jason Begay and me. Well, let's just wait.

[David Duchovny]

Let's just quickly say Jason had a horrific car accident. What year was that? Like 2000.

[Jason Beghe]

2000?

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Jason Beghe]

No, 99.

[David Duchovny]

Should have. Should have been dead September 12th.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah, I died. I broke my neck, my back, all this.

[David Duchovny]

So that's what you're referring to when you're saying going exterior.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah, but that moment. Here's the fucking full circle in our little discussion, though. That moment where I went exterior and I felt the difference between being Jason and just being. I finally answered that question that I've been asking myself in the mirror. Who am I? I felt like I knew who I was for the first time, and that was all I'd ever wanted my whole life. And I said, holy. I'm in. And that day, I went and I bought my entire bridge to clear. I think I gave them 50 grand that day. And I'd been in two days.

[David Duchovny]

Wow.

[Jason Beghe]

How's that for learning how to trust? And the betrayed me. That's the end of the story. I'll never trust anybody again. That's what I learned, the whole thing. Don't trust anybody.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, God.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah. Can you fucking believe it? It's good, though. It's good shit.

[Reshma Sajani]

I love me some me, and my nipples are touching my gut.

[Jason Beghe]

Yes, girl.

[Reshma Sajani]

Welcome to the Body Collective podcast. I'm Katie Storino. We're here to change the conversation about weight. We're going to take everything we've learned about shame, unlearn it, and transform it into a source of power. And I'm doing it with some of My greatest girlfriends. I'm Hunter McGrady. Ashley Longshore. My name is Tracy Moore from Lemonada Media and Weight Watchers. The Bodi Collective is out now.

[Ellie Kemper]

Get ready for a wild mythical adventure. Melissa McCarthy leads an all star cast in a hilarious new podcast, Hildy the Barback and the Lake of Fire. In this fantastical fictional tale, McCarthy stars as Hildy, an unlikely hero from the land of Golgorath who must embark on an epic quest with an unlikely team of warriors to save the world. Starring Melissa McCarthy, Ben Falcone, Octavia Spencer, Glenn Close, and more, Hildy the Barback and the Lake of Fire spins a legendary laugh out loud tale you won't want to miss. Hildi the Barback and the Lake of Fire is out now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason Beghe]

Hey everyone, it's me, Ricki Lake. Despite all my success, I've been through some serious challenges. Struggles with my weight, with hair loss, grief, everything. But despite it all, I have managed to create a life filled with ease and a whole lot of fun. Finally, in midlife, I feel like I have mastered the art of choosing happiness. And I want to share that hope, love and good health with you. Listen to the High Life with Ricky Lake from Lemonada Media, out now, wherever.

[Reshma Sajani]

You get your podcasts.

[David Duchovny]

As we remain friends, but we kind of drifted apart a little bit. I mean, we both had.

[Jason Beghe]

Well, they told me they wanted me to get you in. Cause you're this famous actor and you know, you're this guy and you're my best friend.

[David Duchovny]

Well, we had the wedding. You got married at the C Center and.

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were my best man.

[David Duchovny]

I was your best man. But that day I went in and I squeeze, I squeeze the cans, you know. You did? I did. You didn't know that, huh? Yeah, I did. I went in and this woman was auditing me and she started asking super personal questions and my, my, the hair on the back of my neck went up and I was like, I don't know that this is phony bullshit, but I do know that I don't want to talk about this with a stranger. You know, that's, that's, that's all I know. And I'm squeezing the cans and I'm just thinking, no, I'm not. No, I'm sorry, I'm not going to have this conversation. So it didn't go as well as yours. Did not.

[Jason Beghe]

But yeah, but I mean, I had set myself up to try and completely give over, let down all my defenses. And I was on this mission to trust. And of course, I picked the wrong people.

[David Duchovny]

Well, but that's. I don't know if that's.

[Jason Beghe]

But I don't have any regrets.

[David Duchovny]

No.

[Jason Beghe]

Well, that's the thing.

[David Duchovny]

Well, that's the thing. It's your mission. That's always been your. You're looking for something. You know, that's how we started this conversation is like, you've been a searcher, and this. Whatever this mirage was, it wasn't the thing. But there were some things in it that were worthwhile to you. It certainly took over your life. And one of the things that I think was, you know, what I consider my failure in that time was being aware that I don't know. You know, what happens when somebody goes into Scientology, probably into any kind of philosophy or religion, is their vocabulary changes because it's really. It's a brainwashing. And that starts with language. So you don't call this thing recognize or getting to know somebody. You call them confronting, sort of. There's all these, you know, you had all this language, and all of a sudden you were speaking to me in a different language, which scared me, and I didn't trust and. But I didn't have. For whatever reason, I didn't call bullshit on that. I guess I sensed that I couldn't, you know, that you were kind of in so deeply that if I try to call bullshit, I don't even. And I didn't even know that it was bullshit or not either. I didn't know enough about it to call bullshit. But, you know, I couldn't confront somebody being that percentage of a believer, you know, that percentage of a systems believer, and you, of all people. And I didn't get into that with you because I just. I don't think I wanted to. To try to puncture that. I didn't want to have that fight. And I regret that. You know, I regret, even though I know that it probably couldn't have persuaded you at that point.

[Jason Beghe]

Can I give you. Because I was there, I was in it, and I got out. And in retrospect, your behavior was almost perfect as a friend, in retrospect, because you never made me wrong. You maintained your own position in space and your own integrity. You mirrored my level of closeness and warmth. And I felt, because I know you, that you judged me, but you kept it to yourself. And you didn't judge me to the point of knowing you were right, but you weren't ready to go over to the other side. Right? And it forced me to respect that. And I Remember, they. When I would be kind of asked about, you know, what your status was vis a vis Scientology, at one point, they tried to sell to me that you were a suppressive person.

[David Duchovny]

You'll have to explain what that is to people.

[Jason Beghe]

That's somebody. Anybody who's, like, against Scientology, that. A Scientologist. If you're around them, you will not only fail, but you will have injuries, accidents, and illnesses. They're dangerous, and they're ultimately evil people. And there's a whole explanation for it. But I never bought that you were a suppressive person, you know, so, you know, there was things that I just kind of suspended, you know, belief and ignored and, you know, when I finally found my way out, which was a number of things, including, you know, there's a. There's a moment where the bell goes, oh. You know, and you realize in that moment, all of these things you go, ah. And it can. Can kind of go, oh, for a year or two. Oh. But one of those things that were like, yes, was you, your behavior. So I'm not, you know, obviously not here to try to make you feel better, because I know you're not losing sleep over this, but I want to tell you that you may feel shitty about that. You should have done more. It's kind of like, listen, you did it. It's like, for instance, I have, you know, a guy I know who's got a girlfriend that I don't think it's the right girlfriend. And they got into the point where, you know, he was like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think I'm going to commit. And I thought, I'm going to tell you that I don't think it's the right thing for you to commit to. I don't think she's, you know, a bad person or anything like that, but I just want to go on record, right? And he's like, well, I disagree. And it was uncomfortable for, you know, a little bit, but we're close enough that, you know, he's allowed himself to forget that we had that conversation. But I feel good now that I've done it. I support him because I support him. You know, I don't hate her. I just don't think she's the right girl for him, you know, and I wish them well and all that. And I don't. I'm not in the way. I don't try to sabotage anything, but I do as I felt it was my duty as a friend to give him the opportunity out of the respect that he affords me to let him know clearly what my opinion was for him. And in a sense, I feel like you did that without actually having that conversation.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, well, I appreciate that, and I'll take it in. When you were in Scientology, it became like, your career. I mean, because you stopped working quite a bit, you know, it was more important to you than. Yeah, and I'm not. And I'm not judging that at all. Like, it's.

[Jason Beghe]

No, no. I did what I wanted to do. I was more interested in that.

[David Duchovny]

And then, beautifully, I thought your. Your response was at the end, like, why. I think I remember asking you, you know what. Why did you want to get out, you know, ultimately? And you were like, I want my money back. It doesn't work. Which was like. Which was like the. You know, because you get all these people coming out of Scientology, you know, like, oh, I'm traumatized this. And, like, whatever, you know, but it's like, you were just like, hey, you know, the shit doesn't work. Give me my money back. And that was. That was the whole thing. But when you came out of there and you. You did need to work because you had a young family, you know, and now you find yourself in your 40s or late 40s, and you're like, fuck, you know. Yeah, now I got some responsibilities, and people are counting on me, and. And I haven't worked in a while. Yeah. And I remember what I wanted. And what I wanted to see you do is I wanted to bring that. The anarchy that you were in touch with when you were a kid, the lack of system, the courage to kind of live. And I was like, I've never seen Jason. He's the funniest person that I know and I haven't seen. I really want to see him do that in his work. And I was so happy that we got to. To do that in California, because it is one of the funniest parts that I've ever seen, and there's nobody. There's nobody that could have done it like you, because you are fearless and fearless comedically, and that was really satisfying for me. And when I look back at your career, we talked about you getting this job at Chicago PD is getting an inside straight, pulling a fifth card to an inside straight because it's not supposed to happen to somebody. How old were you when you got that job?

[Jason Beghe]

50 something.

[David Duchovny]

You're not supposed to get that network lead at that point. And now here it is, 13 years later, and this is an incredibly successful show, and you've made this Culturally indelible character. So it's all. I don't think.

[Jason Beghe]

You know what the funny thing is, though, when I was thinking, I gotta go get a series. Yeah, I thought ideally it'd be a dick wolf show. But you know what? The one thing that I fucked up, that I was what I was pushing because I had a goal.

[David Duchovny]

Really?

[Jason Beghe]

Yeah. I wanted to get on a series and I even made the postulate of a dick wolf show, but. Because that's why I'm always careful, like, not to set goals, because you usually get them and they're usually ego driven. And that's not a recipe for success. That's the difference between Jason and me. Yeah, Jason's goals are not mine. So I try not to set goals because I don't trust Jason still. But I want it to be like number eight on the call sheet.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, right.

[Jason Beghe]

I didn't want to be the lead. That too much fucking work.

[David Duchovny]

Well, let me also tell you, just like in terms of you say number eight, and I have actually have this written down, like, the last thing I wanted to talk to you about was being number one on the call sheet. Because that's not something that that kid ever wanted. You didn't want that responsibility. You didn't want that system. You don't want to. You don't want to be in a system that has numbers in it anyway. And if you're going to be a number, you'd rather be number eight. But what I. What I see is a show is a big machine. It's a big system. How many people are employed by that show? You're the leader on the set. You're number one. And you've been doing it for 13 years. And forget about sitting still for 45 minutes. You gotta sit still on set for how many hours a day, how many months out of the year? And you're doing it with joy and you're not complaining, I don't think. Yeah, so look at that.

[Jason Beghe]

I learned that from you. But I gotta go back to the first thing now that you said, because I know you wanted to wrap up and this might be perfect. So you started this podcast, I guess, with talking about me in a way that moved me and it made me feel understood. And I think, like. And I feel the same way after that acknowledgement that you just gave me. And I don't think that there's a lot of people on this planet, maybe uniquely you, maybe not, but certainly you are. Who can. Who can. I feel that. That feeling again. And I don't feel that feeling a lot. And it's a feeling of. I feel good about myself and I feel, you know, like a lot of people want to win an award, like an Oscar or. That's how I feel when you say that to me. Like, that's.

[David Duchovny]

I understand because I.

[Jason Beghe]

But you. That's what I'm trying to say is that you understand me better than I understand me. And I don't give myself that credit. And I think you're right. And I'm giving myself the credit for the first time because I hadn't thought about it. But it makes me feel good about me. And that's a hell of a thing to give me, David. And I love you for it.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I love you. And I think it's not a small thing and it's not something that people talk about either. It's not something that actors get credit for either. So I'd like to give you that credit.

[Jason Beghe]

Well, thank you. I appreciate it coming from you. And I know you know the job.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I know the job. And also I have to pee.

[Jason Beghe]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[David Duchovny]

Jason, goodbye. Thanks for being here. And I have one final question for you. Can you beat that Dutchman team? Hell, no. Hey, Lots of thoughts after having the conversation with my old, dear friend Jason McGay. And the first thing I would talk about to you guys is it put me in touch with the. With gratitude around having an old, old friend and the not necessity, because not everybody can have one, but the utility, the depth of having an old friend. Because you can check in at different times of your life. You can go through different stages. You know, you're not married to that person, but they're with you through every stage. They're with you through every five year increment, ten year increment. They're with you for the marriage, they're with you for the children, they're with you for the career, they're with you for the aging. You know, they're with you over the years. And to have someone that knew you when. And I'm not talking about when you weren't famous, I'm talking about when you were a kid and has watched you change and transform over the years from this to that or the other thing, it's an invaluable. There's the word. It's an invaluable asset to have. That sounds clinical, but those are the words I'm using for each of us. For Jason and I, we can. We can check in. And he's a keeper of a version of me from many different times in my life and I'm a keeper of a version of him from many different times in his life. And I can't think of any other way because, you know, our own memories are so fallible and our own self conceptions are so flexible and hazy. It's hard for me to think back to my 14 year old self and get any kind of objectivity. And he's, he's the there to say no, you're, you're misremembering. I'm not talking about specifics, I'm just talking about feel, you know. No, you got it wrong. You were this kind of person, you were that kind of person and then you, then you, then that grew into this and that grew into that. So all that stuff, hey rookie, my dog just walked in. All that stuff is put me in touch with all of that as we, as our conversations Conversation yesterday ranged back, you know, in time to the beginning of our friendship was when we were 14 to now when we're 64. There's more fail Better with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like more of my behind the scenes thoughts on this episode. Subscribe now and Apple Podcasts. Fail Better is a production of Lemonada Media in coordination with King Baby. It is produced by Keegan Zema, Aria Brachi, Donny Matias and Paula Kaplan. Our engineer is Brian Castillo. Our SVP of weekly is Steve Nelson. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to Carl Ackerman, Tom Kupinski and Brad Davidson. The show is executive produced by Stephen Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and me, David Duchovny. The music is also by me and my band, the lovely Colin Lee, Pat McCusker, Mitch Stewart, Davis Rowan and Sebastian Modak. You can find us online at Lemonada Media and you can find me at David Duchovny. Follow Fail Better wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi everyone, Gloria Rivera here and we are back for another season of no One Is Coming to Save Us, a podcast about America's childcare crisis. This season we're delving deep into five critical issues facing our country through the lens of childcare, poverty, mental health, housing, climate change and the public school system. By exploring these connections, we aim to highlight that childcare is not an isolated issue, but one that influences all facets of American life. Season four of no One Is Coming to Save Us is out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Are you in bed by 10? Can you feel your hormones raging more than ever. Do you wake up every day wondering, is this it? Guess what? You're not alone. Welcome to My so Called Midlife, a weekly podcast hosted by me, Reshma Sajani. On this show, we're going to expose the con we've been sold about middle age. Figure out what the fuck we want from our lives and how to get there. We'll have help from guests like Julia Louis Dreyfus, Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and Ilana Glaser. You can listen to My so Called Midlife ad free on Amazon Music.