Episode Summary: "Socialism, Anarchy, and Pixar Movies with Jack Halberstam"

Fail Better with David Duchovny
Hosted by: David Duchovny
Guest: Jack Halberstam, author, scholar, and professor at Columbia University
Release Date: December 3, 2024

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Fail Better with David Duchovny, host David Duchovny engages in an enlightening conversation with Jack Halberstam, renowned author of The Queer Art of Failure. The discussion delves deep into unconventional interpretations of children's movies, the pervasive themes of socialism and anarchy within them, and Halberstam's personal experiences confronting societal norms. The episode challenges listeners to rethink failure, success, and the underlying systems that shape our perceptions.

Exploring Failure Through Children's Media

[04:21] Jack Halberstam:
Jack begins by challenging the traditional Beckettian notion of "failing better," emphasizing that constant failure can lead to deeper systemic issues rather than mere resilience.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Redefining Failure:

   • Halberstam argues that failure isn't just about individual setbacks but is intrinsically linked to resisting oppressive systems.
   • "Failure is the burden of those who do not conform to the social script they've been given." — [04:21]

2. Analysis of Pixar Films:

   • The conversation shifts to the ideological subtexts within Pixar movies. Halberstam posits that these films embed themes of socialism and collective action inherently.
   • "Pixar films made films about social insects and collective groups, which corresponds well to the way that the child is actually experiencing the world, as part of a collective." — [07:37]

3. Examples of Subversive Themes:

   • Shrek: Subverts traditional fairy tale norms by presenting non-ideal protagonists.
   • Finding Nemo: Illustrates collective struggle and solidarity, with the climax emphasizing teamwork over individual heroism.
   • Chicken Run: A blatant Marxist and feminist allegory depicting chickens uprising against oppressive farmers.
     • "Chicken Run is a very basic Marxism at the beginning... it's a friggin feminist Marxist fable." — [16:00]
   • Monsters, Inc.: Critiques corporate culture through the lens of a company designed to scare children, ultimately showcasing solidarity and rebellion.
     • "Monsters, Inc. is saying even the figures that are supposed to represent the anarchic outside of the culture, we can incorporate them. The uprising comes from within the company through solidarity with the child." — [14:38]

Notable Quotes:

• "Fail again, fail better has been interpreted as if at first you don't succeed, try and try again. And those, those things are not compatible." — Jack Halberstam [04:49]
• "Animation is like a magical realm. There's all this potential there." — Jack Halberstam [06:55]

Personal Journey and the Queer Experience

[30:38] Jack Halberstam:
Halberstam opens up about his own experiences growing up queer in 1970s England, a time and place rife with societal intolerance.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Struggle with Gender Identity:

   • Jack discusses being frequently mistaken for a boy and the familial pressures to conform to a female identity.
   • "Your gender identity is coiled within you, but it's also projected onto you by every interaction that you had." — [35:33]

2. Impact of Punk Movement:

   • The punk scene provided a refuge and a space for expressing anger against societal norms.
   • "Punk was a great hideout for me because the punks were pretty asexual and they were also pretty non-binary." — [30:38]

3. Confronting Societal Expectations:

   • Halberstam reflects on how societal scripts assign categories of success and failure, often marginalizing those who don't conform.
   • "Some of us have already been assigned to the category of failure without even beginning our lives." — [33:42]

Notable Quotes:

• "I was never gonna give up the boy thing. I just wasn't." — Jack Halberstam [37:10]
• "I'm somebody who was trained probably in the same way that you were when you were an undergraduate or doing your PhD." — Jack Halberstam [18:39]

Teaching, Systemic Critique, and Personal Success

[45:35] Jack Halberstam:
The dialogue transitions to the challenges of teaching within hierarchical systems and the pervasive influence of traditional power structures.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Navigating Hierarchical Education Systems:

   • Halberstam discusses the difficulty of teaching in environments that often suppress alternative viewpoints.
   • "When I'm teaching, I try to give them the tools that they need to deconstruct the tradition." — [47:32]

2. Success and its Discontents:

   • The conversation touches on the concept of success within oppressive systems, highlighting how institutional recognition often requires co-opting individual efforts.
   • "If you enter into that system and become a winner and don't change the system, then you must question your own character." — Halberstam paraphrased by Duchovny [33:42]

3. Systemic Alternatives:

   • Discussing abolitionist perspectives, Halberstam emphasizes the need to dismantle harmful systems rather than merely offering superficial alternatives.
   • "We just have to work really hard to unmake this world that we live in because it's predicated on such brutal exploitation." — [49:32]

Notable Quotes:

• "Anyone who's doing well in this system, in this economy, is co-opted. No question." — Jack Halberstam [48:07]
• "What we want to do can't often be done in the institutions that employ us. We have to go elsewhere." — Jack Halberstam [48:38]

Reflections on Memory, Forgetting, and Identity

[22:01] Discussions on "Dude, Where's My Car?":
Halberstam critiques mainstream media's portrayal of forgetting and identity, using Dude, Where's My Car? as a case study.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Forgetting as a Revolutionary Act:

   • Halberstam redefines forgetting not as a simple lapse but as a means to challenge and reinterpret existing societal constructs.
   • "Forgetting is more of a revolutionary notion in the way we're discussing it here." — Paraphrased from Halberstam [22:40]

2. Critical Examination of Mainstream Narratives:

   • By loosening the dominant white male perspective, alternative identities and stories emerge, offering richer, more inclusive narratives.
   • "There's casual homoerotic kissing between the two male leads... and this sets them into a loop." — [21:28]

Notable Quotes:

• "Ideology is selective remembering. We're just like friggin soaking in." — Jack Halberstam [52:17]
• "The script that I was given. I refuse it. And forget it." — Jack Halberstam [26:07]

Closing Thoughts and Future Directions

[49:22] Jack Halberstam:
Halberstam expresses his ambivalence about offering alternatives within the system, recognizing that true change requires dismantling the current structures entirely.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Abolitionist Approach:

   • Advocates for completely unmaking existing oppressive systems to pave the way for genuine transformation.
   • "I'm sort of in the abolitionist camp. Let's take this thing down, and then we'll see." — David Duchovny [50:52]

2. Systemic Failures and Democratic Shortcomings:

   • Critiques the efficacy of democratic institutions, pointing out inherent flaws like the Electoral College and lifetime Supreme Court appointments.
   • "If you can elect someone like Trump, then are you in a democracy? Really?" — [51:03]

3. Personal Reflections on Success and Systemic Privilege:

   • Duchovny shares his introspections on personal success within a system marked by wealth inequality, questioning the narrative of being a "self-made man."
   • "Speaking to somebody like Jack and realizing that you must question the system." — David Duchovny [53:13]

Notable Quotes:

• "What would a system look like that actually cared about people who are living in poverty, who this system has actively produced as a population living in poverty." — Jack Halberstam [53:51]
• "You're doing your piece. Exactly. You're doing your piece." — Jack Halberstam [53:57]

Conclusion

This episode of Fail Better offers a profound exploration of how children's media subtly instills themes of collective action and resistance against oppressive systems. Through Jack Halberstam's insightful critiques and personal narratives, listeners are encouraged to reconsider the definitions of failure and success within societal frameworks. The conversation underscores the importance of questioning entrenched systems and highlights the transformative potential of understanding and embracing failure as a tool for meaningful change.

Additional Notes:

• Sponsor Messages: The transcript includes several sponsor advertisements for products like Cologuard, Girls Who Code, BetterHelp, Aura Frames, and Acorns. These segments are non-content-related and have been excluded from the summary to maintain focus on the core discussion.

• Post-Episode Reflections: Duchovny shares his personal takeaways, emphasizing the importance of questioning systemic structures even when personally benefited. These reflections enhance the episode's depth, bridging the academic insights with real-world implications.

Recommended For:

Listeners interested in critical theory, media studies, queer theory, and systemic critiques will find this episode particularly enriching. It offers a blend of academic discourse and personal storytelling, making complex ideas accessible and relatable.