The Buoyancy of Rob Lowe

Summary

Fail Better with David Duchovny: Episode Summary – "The Buoyancy of Rob Lowe"

Introduction

In the episode titled "The Buoyancy of Rob Lowe," host David Duchovny delves deep into the themes of failure, resilience, and personal growth through an insightful conversation with Scott Eckert, a close friend of actor Rob Lowe. The discussion explores Rob Lowe's journey in the entertainment industry, his approach to overcoming setbacks, and the underlying personal experiences that have shaped his buoyant personality.

Meet Rob Lowe: His Career and Personal Life

The episode opens with David Duchovny introducing Rob Lowe, highlighting his extensive career from being a member of the iconic "Brat Pack" in the 1980s to his roles in popular television series like "The West Wing" and "Parks and Recreation." Duchovny shares anecdotes about their early encounters, including their collaborations on projects like "Californication" and "Bad Influence."

David Duchovny [01:49]: "Rob Lowe is a terrific guy. And we've got some stories you'll hear from us."

Buoyancy: Rob Lowe's Approach to Failure

A central theme of the conversation is Rob Lowe's "buoyancy"—his ability to stay positive and resilient in the face of challenges. Scott Eckert describes Rob as someone who effortlessly bobs along turbulent waters, always remaining on the surface despite the storms.

David Duchovny [06:38]: "I think Rob is buoyant. Rob, he bobs along these turbulent waters, but he's always on top of the water."

This buoyant nature is attributed to Rob’s capacity to invite criticism and view it as an opportunity for growth rather than a setback. Duchovny connects this trait to the podcast’s overarching theme of embracing failure as a pathway to improvement.

Personal Struggles: Divorce and Family

The discussion transitions to personal struggles, particularly focusing on Rob Lowe's experiences with divorce and its impact on his family life. Both Duchovny and Eckert share their own experiences with parental divorce, emphasizing the trauma and the determination to avoid repeating it in their own marriages.

Scott Eckert [10:21]: "My mother never went on another date."

Rob Lowe’s commitment to his wife Cheryl and their long-term marriage serves as a testament to his resilience and dedication to personal growth.

Scott Eckert [13:07]: "We have a long-term marriage... we know how to fight and we know forgiveness, the power of forgiveness, which is huge."

Overcoming Shame and Embracing Humility

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the concept of shame and its role in personal development. Eckert discusses his journey through sobriety and how embracing humility has been crucial in overcoming shame.

Scott Eckert [55:06]: "Recognizing that’s what you’re experiencing... it's a no-fly zone. It's like a red line."

Duchovny adds to this discussion by distinguishing between humility and humiliation, advocating for a healthy relationship with shame that fosters moral consensus without leading to personal inhibition.

David Duchovny [51:39]: "The difference between humility and humiliation, I think, is what we have to learn again as a society."

The Intersection of Art and Commerce

The conversation touches upon the relationship between art and commerce, with both Duchovny and Eckert reflecting on their careers in television and film. Eckert emphasizes that producing quality work doesn't necessarily correlate with its commercial success, referencing historical contexts like the Medicis supporting Renaissance artists.

Scott Eckert [32:18]: "I don't subscribe to the issue at all that the relationship between commerce and art is somehow a correlation of your level of artistry."

The Role of Faith and Spirituality

Eckert shares his personal evolution from agnosticism to embracing a form of spirituality grounded in his family and personal growth. This shift played a pivotal role in his recovery journey and maintaining resilience.

Scott Eckert [59:55]: "Through my recovery journey, I knew I had to believe in something bigger than me."

Duchovny relates this to the broader human need for connection and purpose, likening it to experiences found in both artistic pursuits and religious practices.

David Duchovny [27:47]: "Erasing the ego, erasing the self... you are letting them in and they're letting you in. And what could be more religious than that."

Conclusion: Lessons from Rob Lowe

As the episode wraps up, Duchovny reflects on Rob Lowe's enduring positivity and supportiveness, attributing it to his intrinsic buoyancy and unwavering commitment to personal growth. The conversation underscores the podcast’s mission to explore failure not just as setbacks but as catalysts for transformation and resilience.

David Duchovny [64:03]: "Fail Better is about... you come across a guy like this, who does it, who lives his life in this way, facing forward, and you wonder if it's... born with it, if there's a gene."

The episode concludes with acknowledgments and a reminder to listeners about premium content for subscribers, encapsulating the essence of embracing failure to "fail better" and fostering a community where shared experiences lead to collective growth.

Key Takeaways

• Buoyancy Amidst Failure: Rob Lowe exemplifies resilience by maintaining positivity and leveraging criticism as growth opportunities.
• Personal Growth through Adversity: Both Duchovny and Eckert share how personal struggles, such as divorce and addiction, have shaped their approaches to life and relationships.
• Healthy Relationship with Shame: Embracing humility without succumbing to humiliation is pivotal in overcoming personal setbacks.
• Art and Commerce Coexistence: The pursuit of quality in artistic endeavors doesn't always align with commercial success, but both are essential for a balanced career.
• Spirituality and Resilience: Belief in something greater fosters strength and perseverance, aiding in personal recovery and growth.

Notable Quotes

• David Duchovny [06:38]: "I think Rob is buoyant. Rob, he bobs along these turbulent waters, but he's always on top of the water."
• Scott Eckert [55:06]: "Recognizing that’s what you’re experiencing... it's a no-fly zone. It's like a red line."
• David Duchovny [27:47]: "Erasing the ego, erasing the self... what could be more religious than that."
• Scott Eckert [32:18]: "I don't subscribe to the issue at all that the relationship between commerce and art is somehow a correlation of your level of artistry."

Final Thoughts

"The Buoyancy of Rob Lowe" serves as a profound exploration of how embracing failure, maintaining resilience, and fostering humility can lead to personal and professional growth. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, David Duchovny and Scott Eckert provide listeners with valuable insights into navigating life's challenges more effectively.

Transcript

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code. Look, I'd consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. I've written books, founded two successful nonprofits, and I'm raising two incredible kids. But here's the thing. I still wake up wondering, is this it? And if the best years are yet to come, when's that going to start? Join me on My so Called Midlife, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, where we're building a playbook for navigating midlife one episode at a time. Each week, I'll chat with extraordinary guests who've transformed their midlife crisis into opportunities for growth and newfound purpose. At some point, we all ask ourselves, is there more to life? I'm here to discover how to thrive in my second act right alongside you. My so Called Midlife is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ellie Kemper]

Hi, I'm Ellie Kemper from the Office and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. And this is my fantastically funny friend, Scott Eckert.

[Scott Eckert]

Hi, everyone.

[Ellie Kemper]

We host a podcast called Born to Love. It's a show where we talk to the people we love about the things they love.

[Scott Eckert]

Each week, we bring on a celebrity guest to discuss their secret passion.

[Ellie Kemper]

Did you know that my friend Jenna Fisher loves Keanu Reeves movies?

[Scott Eckert]

She does, she does.

[Ellie Kemper]

And how about Al Roker? Samantha Bee, Tony Hawk, Jane Lynch?

[Scott Eckert]

What do they love, Ellie?

[Ellie Kemper]

You have to listen to the show to find out. So check out Born to Love wherever you get your podcast from Lemonada Media.

[Lemonada Media]

Lemonada.

[David Duchovny]

I'm David Daco, and this is Fail Better. A show where failure, not success, shapes who we are. Rob Lowe is an actor, filmmaker, and host of the podcast Literally. He was, of course, one of the core members of the Brat Pack, very unofficial group of young actors in the 1980s who came to dominate the screen in iconic films like the Outsiders and St. Elmo's Fire. If you don't remember Rob from that era, perhaps you know him as Sam seaborn of the hit 90s political drama the West Wing or as the ever upbeat Chris Traeger on Parks and Recreation. Whatever you know him from, or wherever you know him from, you probably know Rob Lowe these days. You can catch him starring on 911 Lone Star and as the host of the trivia game show the Floor. He's been married to his wife Cheryl since 1991, and he's got two sons. One of them, John Owen Lowe, is a writer and actor, and they've worked together over the years, including on the Netflix comedy Unstable. Rob is a Terrific guy. And we've got some stories you'll hear from us. Working together on Californication and even Bad Influence. Back in the day, just when I was starting out as an actor, I had the good fortune to meet Rob. So here he is. Rob Lowe, everyone. Or as I like to call him, Rob Lowe. Hello.

[Scott Eckert]

Dude, are you climbing Mount McKinley?

[David Duchovny]

I'm gonna tell you about a second.

[Scott Eckert]

The fuck are you. What are you. What are you wearing?

[David Duchovny]

Why do I look like this? You're asking. Well, look at you. You. You handsome. You look like you just came off the slopes. What's going on? You skiing somewhere?

[Scott Eckert]

This is my kind of California ski look. I gave more thought to this appearance than. Than any podcast I've done in years because I know that the bar is high when I got Double D. And.

[David Duchovny]

Of course, you know that the recording, the visual recording of this will, I know, is going nowhere, but it's. It's.

[Scott Eckert]

That shows you how. How smart we are. We're spending the first five minutes talking about what we look like. A.

[David Duchovny]

What do you mean?

[Scott Eckert]

Actors.

[David Duchovny]

What do you mean, the first five minutes? We're going to do the whole hour on. On. On what we're dressed like and what we look like. That's.

[Scott Eckert]

Why are you dressed like you're mountain climbing?

[David Duchovny]

All right. Well, I. I was just in the cold plunge.

[Scott Eckert]

Oh, yes, the best.

[David Duchovny]

I used to go into the hot tub right after the cold plunge, but then they told me that I'm not getting the full effects. So now I come right out of the cold plunge and I'm fucking shivering for an hour. And aside from the fact that I, you know, it's early, but I've got two coats on, I've got the heater on, and I'm trying to.

[Scott Eckert]

You got a hoodie underneath. There's. I see at least three levels, at least two of which involve down of some sort.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, I'm downed out. I've got a tip of the hat. Old Steve Martin routine. I've got my fur underwear on, everything.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah, the cold plunge is the sickest. Yeah, I love it. I don't have it in the current dwelling. The new place that my wife and I are putting together has got it going on.

[David Duchovny]

I'll be there. And I'm very sorry to have missed your big birthday party. I was away.

[Scott Eckert]

It was fun. You would have loved it. Turning 60 is not for sissies.

[David Duchovny]

No.

[Scott Eckert]

As we know.

[David Duchovny]

Can you tell me something embarrassing that happened at the party?

[Scott Eckert]

All of it was embarrassing. What do you mean, all of it? Was embarrassing. I was ripped from stem to stern.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

By the roastmasters. Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Downey Jr. Who literally, those two, I'm telling you, I don't know. I never saw Martin and Lewis in their prime.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

But they don't have jack on those two.

[David Duchovny]

They were up there. So they were up there to get together the same time.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah. And they were so funny. You have to. I've known Downey since the. Our High School, 8th grade high school history class, so we go back a long time. And Gwyneth I've known since she was probably 18 and in Hollywood trying to figure out if she wanted to be an actor or not, because I knew her. I knew Blythe and her parents really well. So they were there and were just lambasting me. And you.

[David Duchovny]

You kind of like that because you did the. You did the celebrity roast. You are a guy. I do.

[Scott Eckert]

What does it. What does it say about me that.

[David Duchovny]

What does it say about you?

[Scott Eckert]

Why do I let people be mean?

[David Duchovny]

It's not even let Rob. It's. You invite it. You there. I. I think. I mean, this is. It's funny to talk about, but it is part of your superpower, I think. I think it is. When I think of you, and I do often, you know.

[Scott Eckert]

Thank you.

[David Duchovny]

I think Rob is buoyant. This is what I like. The. The. The word that comes to mind. Rob is buoyant. Rob, he bobs along these turbulent waters, but he's always on top of the water. And it's like, you just invite the shots because somehow you can take it. And somehow, you know, like, part of it is, like, the wonderful buoyancy of your ego. Because it's like. Yeah, well, at least I'm being talked about. You know, like, there's part of that, right?

[Scott Eckert]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

At least. At least I'm in the center of it, you know, like, it's a shitstorm. But it's my shitstorm store.

[Scott Eckert]

But it's my shit store. Yes, there's nothing worse than being forgotten.

[David Duchovny]

But the other part is just a wonderful. And. And we could go deeper. I hope we can go deeper, because this is one of the things that I get from your memoir is because I. I learned more about that reading that than anything else I could have done to prepare to talk to you, because you have a lot of. There's a lot of sadness underneath, and it's not something that you ever lead with, and it's not something in your character to ever lead with that. So you lead with. Yeah. I'm an take me down. But, but that's not true. There's a certain kind of strength. I, I'm, I'm trying to figure it out because I think it's, it's a marker of true power. You know, it's not, it's not a, it's not a contradiction. I think it's part of the same thing.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, I know that the there, my sense is that there's two answers. One is the sort of surface answer, which is my heroes have always been guys and gals who can take it. Right. Who, you know, it's like, like when you'd watch. I'm just thinking of a JFK press conference Right. Back in the day. He was always so funny about himself. Yeah. And so there's, there's that. But the other thing is. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I, I remember being sad, you know, like just, I was like a sad, like I was a melancholy, like a melancholy kid. Right.

[David Duchovny]

And, and do you think that's pre divorce?

[Scott Eckert]

Definitely post. I don't remember pre, but post. And then moving.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

Was really traumatic for me. The 1, 2, the 2 times I moved on top of it. And then I just, and I think, you know, just that sort of people pleasing, you know, wanting to be funny, you know, wanting to try to people please.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Yeah. Even if it means condemning yourself.

[Scott Eckert]

You know, I, I wasn't, I probably wasn't always as overtly down to, to be to lampoonery. I, I, the lampoonery of it all, I think is a. Because there were definitely times where I would do, I'd be like, oh, I don't want to, that's off limits. And I, I, I haven't felt that way about anything in at least 10 years. At least.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. My parents also divorced. I didn't have a father with me after the age of 11.

[Scott Eckert]

Did you have stepfathers?

[David Duchovny]

No, I didn't have any.

[Scott Eckert]

Literally none.

[David Duchovny]

My mother never went on another date.

[Scott Eckert]

Wow.

[David Duchovny]

So for me, when it came time to father my children, one son and one daughter, I was kind of, I felt like I was making it up, you know, I felt like I was just treading water.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah. Did you have, did you also go with the notion that. Well, one of the things I know is what I don't want to have happen to them based on your own experience as a kid. Because that's also, that was really all.

[David Duchovny]

I had to go on. I mean. Well, no, I don't want to denigrate my father because he was a very gentle, very Loving man. But for me, sadly, what I did not want to put my kids through was divorce. That was the major thing that I didn't want to put them through because I'd seen that as, you know, the traumatic incident of my life, my childhood, whatever, certainly to that point. And I did not believe that you could do a divorce. Well, you know, I did not believe. I believe you can do divorce better than, you know, there are better divorces than others, but it is a trauma for the child no matter what, no matter how well you do it. That was always my point of view. I'm not sure that that's true, but that's how I felt.

[Scott Eckert]

No, you're right. I 100%, 100% agree with you. And I had the same feeling.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I was thinking about you, you know, thinking about that with you today because you, you went through it. You've. You, you, you and Cheryl have been through some shit together publicly and then I'm sure privately as well. And I'm wondering if, if that was part of, you know, aside from your love for the woman, which I know is real, but was it this sense of yourself that, okay, there's this hole inside me, Rob, that was created by this absence of your father or the absence of this couple. And I'm not going to, I'm never going to do that. I'm going to fight my fucking ass off to keep this alive, to keep this whole.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah, 100%. And it's, it's, yeah, that's, that is exactly it. It's, it's both love for my wife Cheryl, who I know for me is, is, is the perfect fit. So there was, I was never under an illusion that the grass would be greener in any other way. So that's super helpful. And then it was, once we had kids, it was like, you know, I've seen how that goes. Like you so. And she was the same. She felt and she does feel the same way. So we're 34 years in now and you know, better. Definitely better than ever. Definitely better than ever. I always, people ask a lot, you know, when you do it like a talk show or whatever. Gary, we have a long term marriage and tell me, what do you think?

[David Duchovny]

Sounds a little like Jay Leno, what you're doing right now.

[Scott Eckert]

Hey, tell me something about Trisha Garwood was here and she was saying, just giving like a Leno era reference. And I always like, it's like, fuck Cheryl. And I don't know any more than anybody else knows, but we know how to fight and we know. And we know forgiveness, the power of forgiveness, which is huge. Huge. And everybody has their boundaries up, so big time. And the peanut gallery and all of our lives are super supportive, but only as much as it matches their values and boundaries. So, like, you know, forgiving people's humanity is like, practically not really celebrated today. It's like, I remember when my mom got divorced the first time, and she got divorced three times.

[David Duchovny]

Really?

[Scott Eckert]

Three times? Yeah. And. And with each divorce, there was more of a cheering section for it.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

Culturally, like, you know, so she's in the 70s, she's divorced in like 68 for the first time. And that was early divorce wasn't a big thing. And people like, oh, well, I guess good for you. And then by, you know, 77, is it good for you?

[David Duchovny]

Right?

[Scott Eckert]

And then by 85. Yeah, that guy, right. That was the, that was basically the, the chronology of it and the public sentiment.

[David Duchovny]

When you. Going back to something you just mentioned that interests me is you say you and Cheryl know how to fight, you know, without. Without going into a place where.

[Scott Eckert]

Oh, I can. I can tell you exactly.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, we.

[Scott Eckert]

We had a great a girl because we didn't know how to fight right at all. And we had one fight early on that was the end and it was over.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

And she was pregnant with Matthew, our first son. So we had navigate, but we, we had a one in the oven and we both went to a therapist that a friend had recommended that taught her and her husband how to argue, advocate, disagree, reconcile, all of it. And it was super practical, super, super, super practical techniques, not the least of which I remember is if you can, okay, you're. You're lit up, your partner's lit up, you're in a fight, you know, fucking go at it. It's great. There's no holds barred, you can say whatever you want. There's no guidelines on, on triggering language or any of that. But he did say, but you go one at a time. And each of you has to go uninterrupted for five minutes. Tape recorded. Do you know how hard it is to talk for five minutes, no matter how angry you are, without any feedback? So what it takes, what it takes away is stoking the flames, being reactive, getting them to be reactive, escalating. You get to. Yeah, it doesn't escalate. You fire your. Your most angry shot and it lands with a thud because they're not allowed to say anything for minutes. And then you got to listen to it back and that's.

[David Duchovny]

Wait. Then you really listen to it back.

[Scott Eckert]

That's. It's been so long, it's unclear to me. My sense was they would get their five minutes, and then you would listen to both of them back.

[David Duchovny]

Wow, that's.

[Scott Eckert]

That's a good one.

[David Duchovny]

It's really good. And I've never heard of that, because what I'm thinking of. It must. You must. After about three minutes, you must start thinking, God, I'm an idiot.

[Scott Eckert]

That's right. That's exactly what it is. He had great ones. There was a moment where I was trying to tell him that I didn't care what people thought of me by this. See the way we can make this whole thing go full circle? Isn't this amazing? We're back to, like, me opening myself up for lampoonery. But I remember. I remember saying. And he said, oh, you don't. You don't care what people think about you? I go, no. He goes, great. I have an assignment for you. I go, great. He was big on assignments. He goes, know the McDonald's on Ventura Boulevard? I go, sure do. He goes, I want you stand in front of the sign and ask strangers where McDonald's is. Dr. Steve Heller, Dr. Steven Heller. He's since passed away, but somewhere there is a book out of print, I'm sure, called walking sticks.

[David Duchovny]

Where's McDonald's?

[Scott Eckert]

Called Where's McDonald's?

[David Duchovny]

I love that. But I have to say, and I wish Steve Heller was here to talk about it.

[Scott Eckert]

Me, too.

[David Duchovny]

That's not you, though.

[Scott Eckert]

Maybe it was then. Maybe that's why I'm who I am now.

[David Duchovny]

No, that's just like, okay, people are gonna think I'm a dumbass. Or was his point, you're gonna go there as Rob Lowe and. And say these things? Or is it just you're going to go there as a. As a grown man and ask this stupid question in front of McDonald's? I'm not sure it was it.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, I think the exercise was, you're going to find out where you are with it. Like, are you. Do you feel like a fool? Why do you feel like a fool? Do you feel like a fool because you're a human being standing in front of a fucking sign that says McDonald's and going, Where's McDonald's? Or is it that you are aware of, you know, that you occupy a place in the culture?

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

And then figuring out what that relationship is. My guess, it was more of that.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I think, you know, in terms of full circles, you inviting the roast is you going to McDonald's that's, that's what you are doing is when, when you're asking friends and family to come and, and take their shots, you're saying, tell me the stupidest thing about myself. Tell me, tell me those things. And again, that's a part. Did you go to McDonald's? Did you do it?

[Scott Eckert]

I did. I believe I did.

[David Duchovny]

You did.

[Scott Eckert]

This could also be a memory that I've made up.

[David Duchovny]

That's okay. I don't.

[Scott Eckert]

Do you have memories that you go, wait, did I do that? I think I did it. Maybe I talked about doing it and didn't do it.

[David Duchovny]

Well, you know, memory is a very interesting thing to any kind of artist. And I, you know, I know you don't love that word, but I'm gonna call you artist. And I've been thinking about memory for quite a while because I think I've got a really good memory. But one of the things about memory that I've read recently, when we remember an event or a story, we're not actually remembering the event or the story. We're remembering the last time we remembered the event or the story. So depending on how many times you're remembering that, that's how many times you're actually removed from the quote, unquote factual.

[Scott Eckert]

That explains a lot. Because I've, you know, as you know, I do sometimes I haven't done it in a long time because I haven't had the time to do it, but I do a one man show, which is basically, it's basically stand up comedy that I don't have the guts to call standup comedy. So I call it a one man show. And I tell stories of my life and I've told certain stories so often now, and they've gotten, you know, there's a reason I'm telling them in the show. They get reactions. And I've told them so often I've gotten so many reactions that now I doubt whether those things ever happened to me. Yeah, like, did I invent that for the show? It's weird, but. But this your explanation of we're not remembering it, we're remembering the last time we told it. Well, if the last 30 times I've told it, it ended with a bunch of people in an audience laughing, then it really starts to fucking poison your memory.

[David Duchovny]

If your child could use some extra help in a particular subject or isn't feeling challenged enough, I've got something great to share with you. I excel. Ixl Learning is a versatile online resource that complements any homeschool setup beautifully. Covering subjects from math and language arts to science and social studies. It's designed to adjust to each student's learning pace and style. It's all about sparking curiosity and making learning Click for every child One of my favorite things about IXL is its ability to customize lessons based on where your kids are in their learning journey. Getting them excited about studying can be a struggle at times, but IXL really changes the game. It helps them build a deeper understanding of subjects and keeps them engaged. It takes the stress out of homework time, giving you peace of mind. With ixl, students have shown real improvement in their grades and research proves they consistently perform better on exams nationwide. It's truly an investment in your child's academic future. IEXCEL is used in 95 of the top 100 school districts in the US make an impact on your child's learning Get IEXCEL now and fail. Better listeners can get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when they sign up today at iexcel.com failbetter visit iexcel.com failbetter to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

[Melissa McCarthy]

Struggling to make healthier choices or stick with your goals? You're not alone. We all know it's tough to create lasting changes in our lives, especially when it comes to eating and exercise habits. That's where NOOM comes in. NOOM isn't about quick fixes or strict diets. It's a flexible psychology based program that helps you build healthy habits that fit into your life. With noom, you'll learn how your mind works and why you make the choices you do. You'll have personalized lessons, a support system and tools that track your progress, all designed to guide you on your journey. NOOM uses psychology. That's why they say losing weight starts with your brain, but it also takes into account your unique biological factors which also affect weight loss success. What makes NOOM stand out is that it's not just about the number on the scale. NOOM helps you change your mindset so these healthier habits stick long term. Ready to feel more in control of your health? Take the first step today. Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail] that's n o m.com Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen.

[David Duchovny]

What many people might not understand, it's not a one person show. The other person in the show is the audience.

[Scott Eckert]

Right.

[David Duchovny]

And every audience is going to be slightly different.

[Scott Eckert]

Yep.

[David Duchovny]

A different character. So every time you go out there, it's not a monologue, it's a dialogue with the character of this audience, this particular audience. And you've got to be alive and improvisational in your stance towards the audience, even if you're not being improvisational in your stance towards your material. And I wonder how that feels.

[Scott Eckert]

It's why I do it. It's the best. I mean, your description of it just got me all pumped up. I was like, I gotta get back out there and do that. Because that's exactly right. A lot. You feel alive, present, improvisational, on point, keyed, up, focused. And if I feel that way in traditional show business, it's so rare that I want to break down and cry.

[David Duchovny]

But I would imagine. I totally agree with you on that. I would imagine those moments of presence, as you describe it, presence lit up, fired up, focused. That's why we became actors in the first place. I mean, that's why. That's why we become artists or. And we can go back to divorce or whatever for why us kind of people need that high. It's also God. Right. It's also what people get from going to church.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah, 100%.

[David Duchovny]

Erasing the ego, erasing the self, erasing the distance between you and that audience. You know, you're letting them in and they're letting you in. And what could be more religious than that, you know? And I don't mean to say we're doing God's work or anything like that, but I am.

[Scott Eckert]

David, come on. I think everybody knows that.

[David Duchovny]

It's just. Do you think that there are some people that need that or do you think all people need that?

[Scott Eckert]

Everybody needs it. Everybody needs it. And they, they. But they need their version of it. And we all need it. I think differently.

[David Duchovny]

And do you think you would have needed it had you not for sure suffered in the way that you suffered as a child?

[Scott Eckert]

For sure. My. My grandpa on my dad's side was a Roosevelt era WPA public works artist. Really talented. Yeah, I have all his paintings by day. I still have them. And he, in his group, his name.

[David Duchovny]

What was his name?

[Scott Eckert]

His name was Robert Lowe. And Robert Lowe's peer group all went to New York and they started that school of art that had de Kooning and everybody. And he didn't. He stayed and sold insurance because that's what his wife wanted him to do is like, we're not going to New York and starving. And, you know, he eventually drank himself to death. And I mean, it's literally a caricature. It's like he's an artist who became an insurance salesman.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

And he did not allow himself. His connection that you're just describing and, And. And pay the. Paid the price. And I think. I think people. It's part of human nature to, To. To be connected in that way. And one of the big struggles is how do people find it? How do people do it? Because, you know, he probably did have to support himself or whatever, but. But there's got to be another. Maybe there was another outlet for him that he never found. I don't. I think that's a. That's a. It's a puzzle everybody has to come to terms with.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And I think it resonates for me with you, mostly because it resonates for me personally is. And this is something I want to talk about with you a little bit. It's the idea of working for money as well, of treating this art or craft. You call yourself a craftsman, I think.

[Scott Eckert]

Yep.

[David Duchovny]

But I also think you. I also think you're an artist, and I think you take yourself seriously as an artist, even though that's the last thing I think you're gonna. That would be the ultimate roast.

[Scott Eckert]

It really would.

[David Duchovny]

That's the part you don't want to take, but I believe you have that soul in you, and I believe you still have ambition, which is. I think it's the key to your ambition, really. But there is. That money and security that you and I share definitely was drilled into me as a child reading your book. I see it. I'd always say, oh, Rob grew up in Malibu. Rob's that guy. That's what I assumed. And I know you. I never had the conversation with you. I mean, the Malibu you describe, which is fringe of la, blue collar rancher slash cowboy, whatever that means in the 70s. But bring me back to the. The conflict, if there is a conflict, the dichotomy between. Here I am, I'm, I'm. I'm. I found what I want to do. Young Rob Lowe. I'm going to be an actor. But always at the back of my mind, there's going to be the other Rob Lowe who became an insurance salesman and had to support himself. So I think when I think of my choices, often I've made choices because the money was nice. And then later on, I like to tell myself, oh, I found out it was actually about something else, you know? But sometimes I don't find that out. Sometimes I'm like, oh, that was just for money. Yeah, okay.

[Scott Eckert]

By the way, I don't subscribe to the issue at all that the relationship between commerce and art is somehow a correlation of your level of artistry. I just don't believe it. I mean, the. The Medicis supported all of the great artists of the Renaissance.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

Every great artist you can name painted for money.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

So that's one of the show business things of which there are many that. That I have not had an issue with. I mean, you know, if something's good, you do it, and if you also happen to get paid for it, so much the better.

[David Duchovny]

Right. I think I would agree with you 100% on that. But still, I feel like there is something in me that will always be scared of not having money.

[Scott Eckert]

Okay, well, let me hit you with this.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

Because I've had that. I used to have it a lot, and then one day I had, like, an epiphany. Might have been powered by Zoloft, I don't know. But the. But the epiphany was, what does the data tell you?

[David Duchovny]

Ah.

[Scott Eckert]

And the data tells you that that's not likely. There are years and years and years and years and ups and downs and cataclysms and heights that you can all put into any kind of logical look at your life and go, that's. Look, I could have a heart attack. I have a lot of things.

[David Duchovny]

Right, right.

[Scott Eckert]

That is not likely based on the data. I mean, it could always change. Nothing's guaranteed but trends. Every business looks, everybody, every investor looks at trends. You know, the trend is you're David fucking Duchovny. That's the trend.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, but that's. The data goes to one part of the brain, the lizard brain, the brain that grew up with the notion of scarcity or the worldview that there might not be enough out there.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, that other. That the other part of the brain, that's what you got to feed the Zoloft to. That part.

[David Duchovny]

Well, I. I mean, looking at you, which I. Which I really enjoy doing.

[Scott Eckert]

Thank you.

[David Duchovny]

I see you, you know, when you hit it immediately. And I met you, and I think I told this story on your podcast, I had A tiny part in Bad Influence, which was a starring movie for you and Curtis Hansen directing. And I was club goer number three.

[Scott Eckert]

Amazing.

[David Duchovny]

But I walked into that makeup trailer and I can see you on the other side of the trailer as I walk. And now we're talking about memory, so this could be totally. I can make it up right now.

[Scott Eckert]

No, you're already there with the other. When you say the other side of the trailer. I know that. Exactly. Exactly. I'm not where the, you know, whatever club number three is, get my makeup done there.

[David Duchovny]

Luckily, there's not a partition. You know.

[Scott Eckert]

That's right. That came later.

[David Duchovny]

There's no partition. But I just remember you looking over and engaging me in a conversation. I don't remember what it was, but you were super friendly and we were laughing or whatever. We were just having a conversation. And it's one of those things for me in show business. This has happened a couple times. One's with Joan Cusack. She was super nice to me when I was basically an extra on Working Girl and with you. And it was like. I don't know what was in your mind at the time or whatever, but you were making me feel club goer number three. You were making me feel comfortable. You were welcoming me to your set and to me, that's what a star is. You know, fuck all the other stuff. To me, that was your character. It speaks to your character.

[Scott Eckert]

Thank you.

[David Duchovny]

And I really want to say that I'm not blowing smoke up your ass or trying to do anything. I truly believe the character is betrayed in moments when we're not paying attention. In little moments. Not in these big moments that we're taught to look at politically, but actually in these little moments of just common human decency and generosity.

[Scott Eckert]

Thank you. And like you say, not paying attention because I don't remember it.

[David Duchovny]

Oh, you. My club goer number three is probably one of the best in history.

[Scott Eckert]

I remember. Did you have really good glasses in it?

[David Duchovny]

I don't know. I don't know. But here's. By the way.

[Scott Eckert]

Hang on. I gotta say.

[David Duchovny]

Okay.

[Scott Eckert]

When I came to visit your set.

[David Duchovny]

Yes. I sounded like Ed McMahon there. Yes. Yes, sir.

[Scott Eckert]

You did.

[David Duchovny]

Yes. Yes.

[Scott Eckert]

That set you did on California.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

You were. I mean, that's what it means to be. You ran that set in a way where everybody felt emboldened to play and take their best shot. And I just love making you laugh on camera. And that laugh was so generous and, like. Because, you know, you can make people laugh on camera and they're like, okay, well, he's, you know, they do account some sort of a. Calculus.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

And your thing was just like so welcoming and, and supportive of me. And I was just coming in for a day or two and, you know, the, the. You're running that show. The show is all. All you 24 7. And you made it a nice sort of adjunct of your own personality. I thought it was great. I had a blast.

[David Duchovny]

In my experience, when it comes to New Year's resolutions, failure can have a field day. I remember one time telling myself I would quit sugar. And that lasted two days. But there are things you can do to help stay on track towards your goals, especially when it comes to money. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, your kids, and your retirement. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. And you know what else? You don't need a ton of time. You can create an Acorns account and start investing in about five minutes. Then Acorns handles keeping your money on track. So $5, five minutes. That doesn't sound so daunting, right? Head to acorns.com failbetter or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation, provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] failbetter.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi, I'm Emily Deschanel.

[Lemonada Media]

And I'm Carla Gallo. And we're excited to tell you about Boneheads, our new Bones Rewatch podcast.

[Reshma Sajani]

I played Dr. Temperance Brennan.

[Lemonada Media]

And I played Daisy Wick. And we are gonna watch from the very beginning.

[Reshma Sajani]

We're gonna watch the episodes.

[Scott Eckert]

We're gonna reminisce, we're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry, we're gonna tell behind the scenes stories.

[Lemonada Media]

We're gonna go on tangents.

[David Duchovny]

A lot of tangents.

[Lemonada Media]

So whether you're a seasoned Bones fanatic or a newcomer looking to dip your toes in to the wild world of forensic anthropology, this show is for you.

[Reshma Sajani]

Boneheads from Lemonada Media is out now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Melissa McCarthy]

Get ready for a wild, mythical adventure. Melissa McCarthy leads an all star cast in a hilarious new podcast, Hildy the Barback and the Lake of Fire. In this fantastical fictional tale, McCarthy stars as Hildy, an unlikely hero from the land of Golgorath who must embark on an epic quest with an unlikely team of warriors to save the world. Starring Melissa McCarthy, Ben Falcone, Octavia Spencer, Glenn Close, and more, Hildy the Barback and the Lake of Fire spins a legendary laugh out loud tale you won't want to miss. Hildy the Barback and the Lake of Fire is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Duchovny]

You started to do television as, as when I, I started to do television, in a way, it was a concession, you know, right. Like, oh, not getting the movies I want, couldn't do TV. That's no longer the case now.

[Scott Eckert]

That's right.

[David Duchovny]

Now TV's arguably much better than what comes out theatrically. But at least for an actor, for you to start appearing on television when you did, how did that feel? Did it feel like a demotion?

[Scott Eckert]

For sure it did, because that's. It was in those days. Now, you're right, TV has surpassed movies, in my opinion, but that didn't happen until the 2000, the 2000s. So anytime in the 90s, but I had had this again, goes back to supporting yourself. I had two kids and I frankly didn't give a. I was like, I was like, I wanted, I wanted to build a life outside of Hollywood. I wanted to have nice things. I wanted to raise my kids in a way that I, I wanted them. And, you know, was like, I used to remember going, what if I was any other craftsman? What if I was a architect? Would I be like, no, no. I simply refuse to design homes like that. I just, I won't do it. You'd be like, you would design whatever home you were given and do your best at it. And that was kind of the attitude that, that I took. And luckily, you know, the, that the landscape changed and I ended up being one of the first guys there. I remember running into Kiefer Sutherland. Kiefer Sutherland, pre 24. And interestingly, Billy Peterson, William Peterson, pre CSI.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

And they both were like, bro, when I saw you on the West Wing, I was like, all right, I'll go in and talk to them about this CSI thing. And I was like, great, pay me a percentage.

[David Duchovny]

But at the moment, when you're doing it before, you see, one of the things on this podcast nominally is about failure, talking to very successful people about failure. So there's always the happy Ending in a way. So just take me back to that moment because one of the things I'm interested in talking to you, Rob, about is one of the things that interests me in life is shame. Because I'm very susceptible to being shamed. It's why I probably sometimes keep my mouth shut when I should speak up. And it's a lifelong struggle for me to take what is good from shame, which is usually. Well, we're herd animals. We have to live in a society. And a modicum of shame is probably a good thing to have so that we can get along with other people. We can't all be just living in a world of our own rules and our own sense of shame. And the other is being crippled by it or being, if not crippled, then inhibited by it.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, let me, let me hit you with this one. It was talking about shame, so. And I, I want your armchair psychiatric diagnoses. So I'm doing St. Elmo's Fire. I am like the ongenue du jour. And Joel Schumacher. I don't know. Did you ever know Joel, who directed?

[David Duchovny]

I, I auditioned for flatliners for him.

[Scott Eckert]

Right. So Joel was a great director, Did a lot of hits, directed St. Helmet's Fire and liked me a lot and wanted to do something else with me and wrote a script based on me and his perception of me and his experience with me. And the character's name was the Shameless Creature.

[David Duchovny]

He didn't have a name.

[Scott Eckert]

No, it was the Shameless Creature.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

And I, if I read it, I don't remember it, but I sure the remember that he had named a character the Shameless Creature after me. And I always even. And listen, you know, then I was. I've gone on a journey, a well documented journey of sobriety and all of it. And that was at the height of me being a lunatic. So I, even then, where I wasn't doing a lot of navel gazing, I was like, I'm not sure that's a really good name. I don't know much, but I think that might be a backhanded compliment at best. And it, it got me thinking about shame. And I think I went the other way with that where I felt imper. I was like, I'm going to be impervious to it.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

And then as I got sober and did the work on myself and continued, I realized, no, no, shame exists for a reason.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

It's society. It exists in society for a reason, and it helps us. Without shame, healthy shame, then we can't have an A consensus on morality.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

And so to have no shame, you just, You, you, you follow the logic to its ultimate conclusion. You have no morality.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

So I, you know, had, among the other things that I, you know, spent time working on thinking about was like, what. What's a healthy relationship with, with that? Because people today, as you, even in your, Your intro to the question, people talk about being shamed, shaming, and all of the sort of negatives about it.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

But they're. It's like a, it's like, it's like an element on the cultural periodic table. Like, we gotta have it. We just don't want.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And we just don't want cultures around. Every culture around the world has it. And, and, and it's a different kind of a setup in every culture.

[Scott Eckert]

And it.

[David Duchovny]

They all have a concept of shame. Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

And, And I think, you know, what would give, what would make someone blanch today is not what it would have been even two and three and four years ago. And you wonder where, where it ends. But we don't need to talk about culture. You want to know about me personally with it. And so I, I feel like, look, career wise, I had been through, you know, so many ups and downs, at least perceived that I had. I, I'd come out on the other side of it by the time I was doing television, where I was like, you know, there's. It is what it. I had like a very much. It is what it is type of moment. The other thing is I. The, the material was really good.

[David Duchovny]

Right.

[Scott Eckert]

I mean, that was the, the thing. It was like, you know, it wasn't like, I, I did a show that, you know, was the West Wing for fuck's sake. It ended up being really the best one. So.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. And also challenged you, I think, as an actor, in a way, you know, you have a great facility for that kind of spoken work. Like. And I don't think we would know that without the West Wing. I don't know that you would know that for sure without the West Wing. And that's. You do it so easily, so facilely that I, I think people can overlook what a talent that is just to be that. You know, obviously it's Aaron Sorkin's articulateness, but you are giving your mouth to it. And that's not, it does, it just doesn't. The words don't speak themselves. You know, you have to have a certain kind of actor to do that.

[Scott Eckert]

Thank you.

[David Duchovny]

And it's not, it's not something I would have associated with you before that.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

If you know what I'm saying.

[Scott Eckert]

No, for sure. I hadn't ever had the. You, you.

[David Duchovny]

Nobody asked you.

[Scott Eckert]

Nobody asked me. I'd never been handed that. That sheet of music to play.

[David Duchovny]

Right. Yeah. And, and I think through 12 steps, this is an interesting conversation to have. And we, we both have experience with, with that technology. Spiritual technology.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

The difference between humility and humiliation, I think, is what we have to learn again as a society, you know, because I think we've been trading a lot in humiliation for the past, however long, not pointing any fingers. To me, humility is a. Is a wonderful part of character. Not something you associate with Los Angeles or Hollywood, but when you, when you are in the presence of somebody who is naturally, however they came by it through hard work or through nature, naturally humble, it's an extremely powerful person.

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah.

[David Duchovny]

And I think.

[Scott Eckert]

Agreed.

[David Duchovny]

We think of often as a society, it seems now we think that the way we take a person to humility is through humiliation and that is actually not the way to go. We only take them to inhibition and anger and revenge, ultimately at the end.

[Scott Eckert]

Yes. And I, and you know, it's. That's powered by a lot of different cultural things. And I. The only thing that popped in my head as you were saying that was whenever I've met the, the real thought leaders and whether it's in finance, whether it's in the arts or whatever, the real, real, real goats, they're all unbelievably humble, all of them. It's the pretenders that have no humility. But like, if you talk to, if you're a director and you talk to Steven Spielberg, humble, you know, you know, if you're, if you talk in finance, you talk to George Roberts, found KKR humble. I mean, it's. Yeah. I don't know, part. If part of it comes from when you have nothing left to prove or if it was always there. I. That. I don't know.

[David Duchovny]

How do you feel like you've come by that now? I don't think humility is something we associate with you, but I do so if, if you accept my designation as, as having a certain amount of humility.

[Scott Eckert]

Yes.

[David Duchovny]

Tell me how you came by it.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, I think I learned in sobriety. One of the main things I learned is that there's no, there's no place for resentments. And that's a huge thing, a huge key. And when we're in a world, in a business where we are marked to market every day of our lives, you. One can imagine Keeping a list of resentments and, but luckily, if you want to be sober, you, you can't, can't have them. I think there's a line of thinking that like that's the, the dubious luxury of normal people. But, but resentments get you to pick the bottle up again or to do whatever it is you're trying to do 100%.

[David Duchovny]

So if, if resentment is a bottle, literally, and you find yourself reaching for that, what's the technology, what's the teaching? Whether it's your personal history and knowledge at this point or AA inflected, how do you make that pivot in your daily life?

[Scott Eckert]

First of all, recognizing that that's what you're experiencing because a lot of times it can be cloaked and it can be so subtle and nuanced and full of other things that are legitimate. You were wrong, you were fucked, you were angry, they owe you money, you got arrested, you, she cheated on you, you got fired from all facts and you can. But underneath it and around it, maybe even very quietly is a resentment. So if you can realize that the minute there's any resentment, any you from where I sit, you, it is, it's a, it's a no fly zone. It's like a red line. And look, I'm, I'm never perfect about it, obviously. I fucking, I fucking have resentments for sure. There's no doubt about it.

[David Duchovny]

But, well, having said that, but having.

[Scott Eckert]

Said that, you people listening should be perfect. Yeah, you. It, it's, it's, it's, it's. What's that, that thing of. What is it? You know, it's having a resentment is like drinking poison and meant for your enemy.

[David Duchovny]

Preparing a poison for your enemy and then drinking it yourself, I think. Yeah, something like that.

[Scott Eckert]

Something. But that is true.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah. Well, I think what's true, sadly, is that, you know, these lessons that we learn, they're not cut and dried. It's not over with. Once you get it, you don't have it. You actually have to exercise it daily. It's like you have to relearn it daily. And that's fucking exhausting when you think about it. You know, I think the illusion that you get sold, whether through therapy or 12 steps or whatever kind of self realization that you're going to go through, is that once I get there, you know, then I'll be, I'll just be okay and life will just be lived. But the hard fact and the true fact, and it's not a bad fact, but it seems to me a fact is that It's a daily practice in many ways, of. It's a daily struggle in many ways. And it might be a disservice to look at all those books on the shelves in the self help section that promise these things, that once you get through this particular course, you're going to be okay. When in fact, it's every day from now until the end that you're going to have to try to be some version of yourself that you can be proud of.

[Scott Eckert]

100. And you have to ask for it. You have to, you know, ask whatever your version of a power greater than yourself. God, Buddha, whatever.

[David Duchovny]

Do you have a version. Do you have a version of that at this point in your life that is clear?

[Scott Eckert]

Yeah, very clear to me, for sure. I mean, I. I grew up in Ohio. You know, my parents. My grandparents were Methodists, and my mom at one point was an Episcopalian, but not practicing at all. And so I didn't grow up with any structured religion around me. And. And so I was. I was truly agnostic. Like, I could. I didn't believe. I did not believe. It just wasn't on the table at all. But I always admired Quietly. Quietly. I always admired people of faith. I thought, that's cool. Whether they were characters in movies. God.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

Grant me the strength to take this foxhole tomorrow when we charge Pickett's Fence. Like, I was like, those guys are bad. I want to be like that. But I wasn't. And then through, again, through. Through my recovery journey, I knew I had to believe in something bigger than me. And. But I didn't really. The truth of it is, I didn't have that. I didn't know what. I'm gonna. Afraid of the ocean, by the way. People do great. Good for them. Yeah. But I felt like. So I would pray to God and just act as if I believed it. And then one day I believed it.

[David Duchovny]

So that's a fake. Fake it till you make it. Which I. You know, which is like. If I had an acting class, I guess that's how I'd teach it. You know, you got this role. Yeah. Just fake it. And eventually you'll be making it. You know, it'll be real. Does God. Is that God? Was it an image of any kind or is it just kind of a cloud?

[Scott Eckert]

It's not an image of his. I feel like I didn't need one. I felt like that would be reductive.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah.

[Scott Eckert]

Like almost an insult. It's like. And part of it is, you know, that part that we plug into when.

[David Duchovny]

We write I mean, I would say in my armchair analysis that at that point in your life, whether or not you were going to find God or some version of God, I think the God that you became of service to was your family. In many ways, you subsumed your own ego, too, and said, I'm going to go to work because I have this higher vision. Before, I might have been servicing my stardom or my artistic integrity or my sense of myself as an actor or a star or whatever the fuck that is, but now I've got this thing very tangible. I'm living with it all the time, you know, and that must, I hate the word, but that must have been entirely grounding in some fundamental way, 100%.

[Scott Eckert]

It was. It was. Then. You're absolutely right. I couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly what it was. And, and then, like you say, it's, it's a daily. You never get there in quotes. Right. So the next phase after that is grounding and wonderful and as it was is you can't make anybody your God. Yeah, right. So, and I see that a lot. I see that with people getting newly on their, their journeys are like, they do that and, you know, it's their relationship with their kids or they're this and that, and that's great. And it works till it doesn't work, but eventually it literally and truly has to be something outside your own.

[David Duchovny]

Yeah, yeah. And the last thing I was thinking about is, you know, the sense of, of shame or of hurt. And going back to the beginning where we're talking about, oh, you know, you're not only roasted on Comedy Central, but you're doing it at your own 60th birthday party. Is this guy glutton for punishment? You know, you have hurt, you have been hurt. You hurt like any other person. But the way you display your hurt, I feel has a great amount of integrity. And you've never begged for forgiveness. You've never begged. You've never made yourself. You've never, like, opened up your belly to the world and say, I'm bad. Just, just have it out with me. You've never made that kind of apology. In fact, your apology has been, in a way, the most beautiful because it's the way in which you live your life. And I can't express how much admiration I have for the way you've displayed and worked with and resolved your own hurt.

[Scott Eckert]

Well, thank you. Thank you. I, I, yeah, it's, it's finding the nexus of, like, private journey, work versus public, when to Share it when not share it. I think at the end of the day, it's an unsolvable equation probably. So you just have to, again, put one foot in front of the other, and if you make the next right choice, whatever that is, eventually you get to a place where I have somebody who I respect and love, like you saying something like that to me.

[David Duchovny]

Okay, Rob Low business. Yeah. So much fun to talk to, Rob. You know, you have those people in your life who, you know, like we said during the conversation, we don't really stay in touch, but then when we get in touch, it's like, why am I not in touch with this guy more? And that gets to like, the heart of some of one of the things that I was talking about with Rob, about himself, which is his buoyancy. And, like, you know, I think of like a buoy, like floating across the ocean, bouncing across the ocean. Rob has a lot of enthusiasm. He's a supporter. He's. He's a. He's a lover of stuff, you know, a lover of art, a lover of film, lover of his own work in many ways, you know, and it's great. You don't envy him that because it's so generous and, you know, it's so kind of part and parcel of what this podcast is about, you know, because here's a guy who's experienced his share of failure or loss or, you know, difficult public situations, and yet he. He remains positive and he keeps going and he keeps learning. And it's like, that's exactly what this is all about at its best. You know, if it is self help, it's exactly what this would be about. And I have, I always caution myself, it's not self help. I'm not an expert and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but you come across a guy like this, who, who does it, who lives his life in this way, facing forward, and you just wonder if it's. If they're born with it, if there's a gene, if there's like this buoyancy gene. Can we, can we identify the buoyancy gene? You know, and let's. Let's look at Rob's blood. Let's look at Rob Lowe's blood and identify the buoyancy gene. There's more. Fail Better with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content. Like more of my behind the scenes thoughts on this episode. Subscribe now and Apple podcasts. Fail Better is production of Lemonada Media in coordination with King Baby. It is produced by Keegan Zema, Aria Brachi and Donnie Matias. Our engineer is Brian Castillo. Our SVP of Weekly is Steve Nelson. Our VP of New Content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to Carl Ackerman, Tom Krupinski and Brad Davidson. The show is executive produced by Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and me, David Duchovny. The music is also by me and my band, the lovely Colin Lee, Pat McCusker, Mitch Stewart, Davis Rowan and Sebastian Modak. You can find us online at Lemonada Media and you can find me at David Duchovny. Follow Fail Better wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Foreign.

[Gloria Rivera]

This message is sponsored by Cologuard because of my own health journey, increasing awareness around the importance of colon cancer screening is a mission close to my heart and One common misconception about screening for colon cancer is that you should start at age 50. But in actuality, if you're at average risk, the recommended age to start screening is 45 and a great use at home option to screen for colon cancer is with the Cologuard Test. The Cologuard test is a non invasive, effective and affordable prescription based use at home colon cancer screening test that looks for both abnormal DNA and blood in your stool. What I really love about the Cologuard test is that it gives the option to screen your way on your time with no need to take time off of work for prep or procedures. Even if you don't have any symptoms. It is so important to test beginning at 45. Because many patients with early stage colon cancer have no symptoms at all and are diagnosed through screening with zero downtime, no special preparation and a use at home screening test that's delivered right to your door. What more are you waiting for? So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. Do not use the Cologuard test if you've had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer, false positive and negative results may occur. Any positive result should be followed by a colonoscopy, not a replacement for colonoscopy in high risk patients. The Cologuard test is available by prescription only.

[Lemonada Media]

Hi everyone, Gloria Rivera here and we are back for another season of no One Is Coming to Save Us a podcast about America's childcare crisis. This season, we're delving deep into five critical issues facing our country through the lens of childcare, poverty, mental health, housing, climate change, and the public school system. By exploring these connections, we aim to highlight that childcare is not an isolated issue, but one that influences all facets of American life. Season 4 of No1 Is Coming to Save Us is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.