Fail Better with David Duchovny

Episode: "Waxing Poetic with Jia Tolentino (Live at Strand)"
Date: November 4, 2025
Host: David Duchovny
Guest: Laurie (Interviewer/Moderator; Jia Tolentino not present in transcript)

Overview

This live episode at New York’s iconic Strand bookstore explores the intersection of poetry, writing, failure, and the search for meaning. David Duchovny, celebrated actor turned novelist and musician, shares insights on his poetry collection and creative process, interspersed with live readings of selected poems. The conversation also touches on the inheritance of literary influence, the complexities of fame, mortality, and what it means to "fail better"—Beckett's mantra for personal and creative growth.

Table of Contents

• Introduction & Setting the Scene
• David's Relationship with Poetry & Early Influences
• On Writing: Poems vs. Songs
• The Notions of Fame, Death, and Legacy
• Live Poetry Readings & Personal Reflections
  • “Carbon Canyon”
  • “Dead Seven”
• Family, Memory, and the Writer’s Double-Edged Sword
• Q&A Segment: Process, Influence, and the Nature of Poetry
• Memorable Quotes

Introduction & Setting the Scene

[01:27] Laurie:
Sets the lively, packed atmosphere and frames Duchovny as a multi-talented icon—"flexing his talents in a new realm" of poetry, described as "expansive and funny and a little absurd and poignant and very human."

[01:38] Duchovny (deadpan):
"That's how I asked to be introduced."

The program will mix conversation and live poetry readings, focusing on Duchovny's latest book.

David's Relationship with Poetry & Early Influences

[05:48] Duchovny:

• Poetry and writing were valued in his home—father was a writer, mother a teacher.
• He began writing as both self-expression and a coded journal—“so that if my mom found it, she wouldn’t really know what I was talking about.” (06:44)
• Early motivations: to connect with his family, impress girls ("I couldn’t play music, so I could play the words"), and to puzzle through feelings.

On poetic influences:

• "John Berryman, for some reason, was, I guess, my first favorite poet."
• Also cites Houseman, "they stick in your head ... maybe they’re not the best poems..., but I’m all for filling your head with as much as possible and letting it bounce.” (08:12-09:03)

On Writing: Poems vs. Songs

[09:31]

• Duchovny distinguishes song lyrics from poetry:

  • "A song has to be instantly memorizable... you want people to sing the chorus... A poem is not like that. A poem is really trying to jar you into dissonance, into not thinking. It's really trying to slow you down."
  • “I love Bob Dylan… but he’s not the best poet. Even Leonard Cohen’s stuff, it’s okay on the page.” (09:44–10:16)
  • Poem: words and music are one; song: words leave room for music and vice versa.

• Creative process:

  • Ideas for poems or lyrics come as feelings or phrases; novels come as concepts or plots.
  • Emphasizes the importance of patience—if you don’t write it down, “then it’s gone... No, you blew that one."
  • On editing: early poems are left true to their original voice—"Maybe it's not as good, but that guy wrote that thing, so I'm going to leave it alone." (13:32-14:24)

Notions of Fame, Death, and Legacy

[15:04]

• Duchovny references Harold Bloom on the Greek (horizontal, contemporary fame) vs. Hebrew (vertical, eternal) notions of fame.
• “I myself sought the horizontal through acting, courting worldwide fame in the here and now, while still harboring dreams of eternal verticality by writing my way into a future… both types of fame belie a fear of death.”
• Struggles with both concepts, sometimes conflating “the here and now” with “verdicality.” (15:53)

On poetry’s universal subjects:

• "Every poem is in its way about death and also about love.” (16:25-16:30)

Collecting poems into a book:

• The volume forms a kind of coded, secret autobiography—spanning many years, “chapter one, chapter two... Maybe these are worthwhile.”
• Describes it as the “most unpopular thing I can do… anti-career… I think I have achieved it!” (17:05-17:38)

Live Poetry Readings & Personal Reflections

Poetry Reading: “Carbon Canyon”

[28:00-31:41]

Duchovny reads "Carbon Canyon," a poem about a walk with his young daughter, encountering a dead mouse and the line:

“No, the ants, Daddy, the ants. Look how much they love her.” (31:41)

• The moment pivots from parental intent (“life lessons”) to a child’s view of compassion—her noticing the ants and interpreting their presence as affection for the mouse.
• Duchovny describes writing it ten years after the event, and the power of collecting lines and moments from life.

Reflections:

• On using his daughter’s words: “I’ll never write a line like that… Part of being a writer is noticing the good lines, too, and ripping off the best lines.”
• On writing about family: “If there’s a writer in the family, there goes the family… you don’t want to hurt people. But the best stuff is going to hurt.” (32:59-34:06)

Poetry Reading: “Dead Seven”

[35:50–38:55]

A poem contemplating his relationship with his father, now seven years deceased:

"People think a relationship ends when a person dies, but it doesn’t… The relationship actually changes. That’s the weird thing." (38:55)

• Poem reflects on legacy, learning, and how memories shift over time.
• Written as he considered his evolving relationship with his late father.

Family, Memory, and the Writer’s Double-Edged Sword

• Writing about loved ones is both a gift and a risk.

• Duchovny acknowledges the complications: "You don’t want to hurt people. But the best stuff is going to hurt… usually it’s going to be complicated anyway. It’s not going to be Hallmark stuff." (33:55-34:06)

• Autobiography emerges through collected poems—honoring "the wholeness" and "the rhythm" of earlier work, resisting the urge to edit older poems, even if they feel less polished.

Q&A Segment: Process, Influence, and the Nature of Poetry

On literary conversation:

• Duchovny sees himself as dialoguing with other writers and texts, even if it "sounds arrogant." References allusions:
  • Shakespeare’s The Tempest ("full fathom five")
  • Joyce and others, "steal from the best" (42:40-43:20)

On writing routine and deadlines:

• No fixed writing schedule—relies on inspiration and deadlines when available.
• “A lot of my life goes by without an idea... But sometimes I'll write poetry in that space because just a little quick idea will come to me." (45:44-46:45)

On re-reading old work:

• Reading old poems “brings me back, at least to the writer that I was when I wrote it.”
• “There’s a span of time that’s being addressed in the poems… a hidden kind of secret autobiography.” (47:19–47:55)

On the purpose and approach to poetry:

• Paraphrasing a question about Billy Collins’ “Introduction to Poetry” poem, Duchovny says:
  • “I don’t think a poem is about anything. A good poem is impossible to turn into any kind of statement... It’s not an idea... it’s something more mystical, more religious.” (49:23-50:21)

On poetry as anti-utilitarian, slow art:

• "Poetry is patient... it slows things down rather than speeds things up... books, look how patient they are. They haven’t said a word the entire time we’ve been here... they’ve just been biding their time." (50:48–51:41)

Memorable Quotes

• “Poetry is not useful. And that is exactly why we need it. It reminds us of two important things. Our ultimate lack of agency... and our inability to say anything plain.” (02:53) — David Duchovny reading from his introduction

• “Poems try to say what can never be said… maybe this time I’ll get it right. If that’s the case, it seems a worthy enterprise.” (05:01 — Duchovny)

• “People will call you a poet as a way of not having to deal with what you write, as if you were already dead.” (03:25)

• “A song has to be instantly memorizable... A poem is not like that. It’s really trying to jar you into dissonance, into not thinking.” (10:13)

• “Maybe it’s not as good in my estimation as it might be, but it was written by that guy, so I’m going to leave it alone.” (14:18)

• “Every poem is in its way about death and also about love.” (16:25)

• “A father slows his daughter, allowing the chance to happen upon a dead mouse... But it is only now, as we kneel, that I notice the vibrant cha-cha line of ants...” (28:00, “Carbon Canyon”)

• "No, the ants, Daddy, the ants. Look how much they love her." (31:41)

• "People think a relationship ends when a person dies, but it doesn’t. The relationship actually changes." (38:55)

• "Part of being a writer is noticing the good lines, too, and ripping off the best lines." (32:40)

• "Poetry is patient...books, look how patient they are... they've just been biding their time against the walls and they're going to be here for a long, long time." (51:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:27 – Introduction and framing of the event
• 02:53 – Duchovny’s “poetry is not useful, and that is why we need it”
• 05:48 – Early influences and writing as coded self-expression
• 09:31 – Comparing poetry and song lyrics
• 15:04 – Fame: Greek horizontal vs. Hebrew vertical (Harold Bloom)
• 17:05 – Purpose behind collecting and publishing old poems
• 28:00–31:41 – Reading and discussion of “Carbon Canyon”
• 35:50–38:55 – Reading and discussion of “Dead Seven”
• 42:40 – Allusions, influences, and literary conversation
• 45:44 – On writing practice and deadlines
• 47:19 – On legacy and rereading one’s old work
• 49:23 – On interpreting poetry and the mystical nature of a poem
• 50:48 – Poetry as slowness and patience, not utilitarianism

Conclusion

Through poetry and candid discussion, Duchovny offers a vulnerable, sharply observed meditation on artistry, legacy, and human connection. The conversation embraces ambiguity, complexity, and the intertwined themes of love, death, and the urge to create something lasting—even in the face of inevitable failure.

Listeners are left with a sense of poetry as "patient," waiting to "jar you into dissonance" or, sometimes, to simply wait until a reader is ready to encounter it.

For further listening:
Search for "Fail Better" on your podcast app of choice, or visit Lemonada Media for more creative, vulnerable interviews at the intersection of failure and art.