Faith Matters Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode: Finding Nourishment in the Old Testament, with Sarah and Josh Sabey

Date: January 4, 2026
Host: Faith Matters Foundation
Guests: Sarah and Josh Sabey

Overview

In this thoughtful and expansive episode, Faith Matters welcomes back writers and filmmakers Sarah and Josh Sabey to discuss their latest project, The Bible Storybook, a two-volume retelling of 50 Old Testament stories. Eschewing scholarly analysis and doctrinal rigidity, Sarah and Josh offer a “heart-first” approach, exploring the complex, contradictory, and deeply human experiences of figures in the Old Testament. With a focus on storytelling for both families and adults, their reimagined tellings invite listeners to find contemporary relevance, emotional depth, and enduring wisdom—even in the Bible's most challenging passages.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Story Over Scholarship

• Storytelling as Sacred Practice
  • Josh Sabey reflects on how modern scripture study can become “a really cerebral act” focused on etymologies and doctrine, missing the way stories move hearts—especially in children and those longing for spiritual reconnection.

    “I think it’s actually a little bit to our detriment as adults that we’ve deprived story time as sacred time... What we feel and the stories we tell actually matter quite a lot.” (03:43 – 04:23)

  • Sarah and Josh position their retellings as experiences in themselves, not as vehicles for moralizing or scholarly decoding.

Approaching Old Stories Afresh

• A Loyalty to the Story
  • Their main commitment is to the integrity and beauty of each story itself, rather than doctrine or historicity.
  • Stories are presented matter-of-factly, even with problematic elements (e.g., polygamy, flawed portrayals of God), without imposing a modern moral lens.

    “Our main loyalty is to just tell the story that’s there… We try to be true to telling a story that’s there and a possibility of that story.” (15:34 – 16:41)

  • Rather than smoothing out discomforts or reframing narratives to fit modern sensibilities, the Sabeys lean into the messiness, viewing the tension as spiritually fruitful.

Wrestling with Difficult Texts

• Jonah’s Story — A Portrait of Rage, Rescue, and Reluctant Grace

  • The Sabeys present a reading of Jonah that centers on his anger, sense of injustice, and difficulty accepting God’s boundless mercy.

    "God had come for Jonah not to punish him, but to save him and put him to work. And Jonah knew he didn’t deserve it. And if he didn’t deserve it, neither did the Assyrians." (09:41 – 10:09)

  • Their retelling concludes with an encouragement for the listener to be “a bush,” a fleeting source of shade or comfort, trusting that “God is sending a whale to save you” in your own tumult.

• The Exodus — Revenge and Its Costs

  • Josh breaks down how the narrative of revenge runs through the Exodus, drawing attention to often-overlooked details: Joseph’s enslavement of the Egyptians, reciprocal cycles of violence, and the hollow victory of retributive justice.

    “Revenge is impossible. So don’t try. It deepens grief. It extends tragedy. It multiplies suffering, because it is like hunting a dragon. You can hunt and hunt all you want, but dragons don’t exist. And neither does revenge.” (31:07 – 31:39)

  • The ultimate movement, they suggest, is from revenge to a new, nourishing law:

    "In the desert, they would learn that God had not come to give them revenge at all, but a law. Because revenge was not real. But the law was... It would end the cycle of hurt and hurting—instead of payback, it would bring peace." (32:12 – 33:07)

Embracing Ambiguity in Scripture

• The Sabeys emphasize that the Bible—and people’s perceptions of God—are plural, complex, and often inconsistent:

  “The Bible attributes a lot of actions to God, and it’s hard to tell, did God do this, or is this someone trying to understand why this happened? …We focus on that grappling of people humanly trying to understand how God fits in this world.” (20:37 – 21:11)

• They encourage readers to become “part of the process,” finding inspiration in the tension and mystery, rather than feeling alienated by contradictions.

Children’s Literature That Nourishes Everyone

• Although the books are marketed for families and children, adults find them deeply resonant.
• The approach allows for “more sentimentality, but in the best way,” reminiscent of C.S. Lewis and E.B. White’s best work for young readers.

  “Any children’s story that is written only for children is not a good children’s story. Yeah. And I feel like that’s sort of our anthem.” (36:03 – 36:26)

Notable Story-specific Insights

• Adam & Eve

  • The story foregrounds the bravery of living with knowledge of sorrow and joy—likening the fruit to “spicy, vinegary, adult flavors” (40:48 – 41:00)—not just as origin of guilt, but the richness and risk of real life.

• Cain the Perfectionist

  • Inspired by Steinbeck’s East of Eden, they depict Cain as a tragic perfectionist—a child who wants to exist "outside the fallen world," whose striving for perfection prevents simple goodness and connection.

    “When you’re trying to be perfect, you’re not going to be able to be good. When you’re trying to get everything right, you’re not going to get anything right.” (44:39 – 45:21)

  • The grace comes not in retribution, but in letting Cain live—to avoid adding more violence to the world (46:10 – 46:27).

• Elisha and the Syrian Army (They That Be With Us)

  • The “they that be with us” angel story resolves not in violent deliverance, but through radical peacemaking:

    “Instead, the attacking army is blinded... and Elisha leads them to the city, where instead of killing them, the king lays out a feast... and they commute together, and then they go home, and they never attack the kingdom of Israel again. It’s an amazing moment of peacemaking.” (47:54 – 48:47)

The Art: Visual Language as Theological Statement

• The new storybook is illustrated by Maddie, featuring bold pinks, reds, and mythological themes—contrasting the “softness” of earlier works—embodying the Old Testament’s urgency, power, and focus on earthly justice.

  "Hagar is this disinherited slave who was, I think, used as property in every conceivable way as this really empowered cover image." (52:09 – 52:21)

• The immediacy of the art mirrors the Old Testament’s concern for justice in the here-and-now, not just the afterlife.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Story vs. Scholarship:

  “My profound experience with the Atonement has always been the telling of the Atonement... not some explanation about it. That’s a real tragedy when we think our job in reading is to somehow get past the text, when so much of the meaning is unsubtractable.” — Josh (06:01 – 06:45)

• On Embracing the Mess:

  “The Bible’s kind of wily… the stories are often hard to tie down… and that happens a lot, where something surprising happens in the story where it doesn’t fit.” — Josh (24:36 – 24:52)

• On Difficulty, Discomfort, and Growth:

  “The complexity and even the discomfort of the Old Testament can become fertile ground for a deeper, more expansive faith.” — Aubrey Chavez (01:24 – 01:37)

• On Revenge and Healing:

  “Revenge is impossible. So don’t try. It deepens grief. It extends tragedy. It multiplies suffering, because it is like hunting a dragon. You can hunt and hunt all you want, but dragons don’t exist. And neither does revenge.” — Sarah (31:11 – 31:39)

• On Writing and Creativity:

  “If your heart is in something, you can spend a lot of time planning…and you can also start writing… Little bits at a time just keep chipping away.” — Sarah & Josh (53:47 – 55:37)

• On Adam and Eve’s Fruit:

  “The fruit is delicious and you have to learn to eat it… that’s our daily bread.” — Josh (40:58 – 41:12)

• On Cain’s Perfectionism:

  “When you’re trying to be perfect, you’re not going to be able to be good… you’re going to miss everything.” — Josh (44:39 – 45:21)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Project Overview — 00:00–02:47
• Why Storytelling Matters — 02:47–06:45
• Retelling Jonah’s Story Excerpt — 06:45–13:42
• Approach to Difficult Passages and Moral Frameworks — 13:42–18:57
• Portrayal of God & Human Views in the Text — 18:57–21:11
• Death of the Author/Authorial Intent & Possibilities in Meaning — 21:11–23:18
• Themes of Nationalism & Narratives that Undermine Themselves — 23:18–26:19
• Exodus and Revenge—A Fresh Retelling — 26:19–33:07
• Discussion on Adult vs. Children Audience — 33:46–36:26
• Adam & Eve—The Wisdom of the Fruit — 39:11–41:12
• Cain—The Perfectionist — 42:16–46:27
• Elisha and Peacemaking — 46:15–49:33
• On Art and Visual Power — 49:35–53:06
• Final Reflections and Wisdom for Creators — 53:08–55:43

Conclusion

Through artful, compassionate, and sometimes playful storytelling, Sarah and Josh Sabey invite listeners and readers to rediscover the Old Testament as a living source of wisdom, complexity, and hope. Their approach, unconstrained by doctrinal demands or over-literalism, honors the heart and humanity of biblical figures—and our own journeys of faith and doubt. Their advice to aspiring creators: “just start,” embrace imperfection, and trust the story.

For more, find “Little Saints” wherever you listen to podcasts, and the Bible Storybook at 4littlesaints.com. The full audiobook is available to Friends of Faith Matters.