Faith Matters Podcast: "I'm Still Here – John Gustav-Wrathall and Allison Dayton at Restore"

Date: June 21, 2025
Host: Faith Matters Foundation
Guests: John Gustav-Wrathall and Allison Dayton

Episode Overview

This episode, recorded at the Faith Matters "Restore" gathering, features a moving conversation between John Gustav-Wrathall—a gay Latter-day Saint, lifelong spiritual seeker, and active member (though not formally on church rolls)—and Allison Dayton, mother of a gay son and founder of Lift and Love. John shares his journey of deep spiritual wrestling, eventual peace, and embracing the tension between his faith and identity. Allison brings heartfelt empathy and insights as a parent. The dialogue explores themes of belonging, divine love, struggle, and the work of creating a more inclusive faith community.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John’s Personal Faith and Identity Journey

• Discovering His Sexuality & Early Struggles

  • Realized he was gay at age 14 after looking up "homosexual" in the dictionary ([02:25])
  • Read Miracle of Forgiveness hoping faithfulness could change him
  • Served a mission in France and Switzerland, was a Kimball Scholar at BYU
  • Post-mission, bishop encouraged marriage; pressure led to a downward spiral and eventual suicidality

• Spiritual Turning Point

  • Had a profound spiritual experience:

    “I knelt down and I said, ‘God, if you want me to pray, I have to be real with you.’ … God said to me, ‘I know you from your inmost being. Of course you’re gay. I know that you’re gay, and I love you.’” (John, [04:10])

  • Felt unconditional divine love and acceptance

• Leaving and Returning to the Church

  • Resigned from the Church, breaking his parents’ hearts
  • Explored celibacy at a Catholic monastery, dated women, but discerned his path was building a life with another man
  • Met and married Euron
  • Years later, felt the Spirit urging him back to his ward:

    “I could do this, and two, if I didn’t do it, I was going to lose the Spirit… I want the Spirit in my life.” (John, [06:09])

  • Grappled with irreconcilable church doctrine vs. personal revelation—chooses to hold both as real and trust God

• Advocacy for Change from Within

  • Emphasizes need for LGBTQ people and allies to stay:

    “If you love LGBT people and you want the church to be a loving place for LGBT people, then you can’t leave the church and expect that to happen… you are the church.” (John, [07:50])

2. Family Acceptance & Its Meaning

• Coming Out to His Parents ([10:24])

  • Was outed by his brother before he could come out himself
  • Parents’ first response: remorse at his suffering alone; mom had a revelation that “your son is okay”
  • Dad took longer, but eventually reassured John: “This is all going to work out.”

• Importance of Family Support

  • “I thought I was going to have to live my life without my family… I could have my eternal family, my parents, my siblings.” (John, [12:06])
  • Allison emphasizes parental pain and the shift for modern families as youth come out younger and still at home

3. Trust, Prayer, and Divine Encounters

• Darkness and Grace (Prayer Struggles) ([13:04])
  • John describes needing God’s grace while feeling unworthy and isolated
  • Allison and John discuss how divine love often initiates the healing

    “I was in a pit… God reached down and spoke to me in a very loving way… let’s talk.” (John, [13:04])

• Role of Parents in Supporting Faith Journeys
  • John’s parents’ love—regardless of his affiliation with the Church—gave him “permission” to make his own choices and consider returning ([24:05])

4. Navigating Marriage and Spiritual Differences

• Tension in Relationship
  • Euron, John’s husband, was spiritual but “not religious”
  • Euron initially angry and protective when John wanted to return to church, fearing John’s pain ([16:01])
  • They coped by focusing on loving and supporting each other:

    “What I’ve realized is we don’t need to be in the same space. I need to love him. That’s what God has said to me.” (John, [16:58])

5. Community, Belonging, and Transformation

• Building Relationships in the Ward

  • Some ward members initially suspicious, but relationships grew deeply over time
  • Memorable story: a skeptical brother gave John a priesthood blessing, breaking down barriers
    “He put his hands on my head… he gave me a beautiful blessing. And that melted that barrier...” (John, [19:13])
  • Twenty years of activity yielded “eternal friendships” and transformed hearts

• Discomfort and Growth

  • Allison asks: Does this work—staying, loving, wrestling in community?
  • John:

    “We all have journeys that are tough… that’s how we become Zion.” (John, [21:19])

6. Agency, Inspiration, and Foundational Faith

• Agency in Faith Journeys
  • John’s father told him as a child he’d be loved regardless of his church status, underscoring the importance of agency ([25:14])
• Faith Despite Unworthiness
  • Struggled with internalized unworthiness as a youth ([27:28])
  • Found comfort and reconnection with God after the 2015 LDS policy change through personal revelation and deep meditation ([28:28])

    “I got this incredible enveloping love… you are where you need to be, and you’re okay.” (John, [28:52])

7. Counsel to Allies & Vision for the Future

• Advice to Parents of LGBTQ Children
  • Suggests unconditional love, emphasizes individual journeys and agency ([23:17])
• To Allies: Stay in Discomfort, Don’t Leave ([30:42])
  • Shares insight from a yoga teacher: discern between “pain” (leave) and “discomfort” (lean in)

    “When you’re in discomfort, go into the discomfort... the rewards are so profound... I want us all to be there. Just stick around so we can all be there for that moment.” (John, [31:48])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “God said to me, ‘I know you from your inmost being. Of course you’re gay… and I love you.’” — John ([04:10])
• “I want the Spirit in my life. So I better do what the Spirit is telling me to do, and I can do this.” — John ([06:09])
• “You are the church. So can the church be a loving place for LGBT people? Well, you tell me. Do you love LGBT people? And are you the church?” — John ([07:50])
• “He put his hands on my head… he gave me a beautiful blessing. And that melted that barrier.” — John, about the former skeptic in his ward ([19:13])
• “My job as his husband is just to love him. Absolutely. Everything’s going to work out in the end.” — John ([16:58])
• “If you stick with it, the rewards are so profound… They are eternal relationships… It’s so worth it.” — John ([31:36])
• “We can find unity. We can become one in people who are here working on our faith, strengthening it…” — Allison ([32:50])

Important Timestamps

• John’s coming out and spiritual turning point: [02:25] – [07:50]
• Family responses and acceptance: [10:24] – [12:42]
• Marriage dynamics and return to church: [16:01] – [17:52]
• Ward experiences and community transformation: [18:58] – [21:43]
• Advice to parents and allies, vision for the future: [23:17] – [31:48]

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a powerful witness of the tension and beauty found at the intersection of faith and LGBTQ identity within the Latter-day Saint tradition. John’s story centers on wrestling with God, trusting divine love, and building inclusive community from within, while Allison’s perspective gives voice to the parental journey and the importance of unconditional support. The invitation is clear: remain present, lean into discomfort, deepen relationships, and trust in God’s timing for healing and unity.