← Family Tree Magazine Podcast
Family Tree Magazine Podcast
Exploring the 1926 Census of Ireland – An Interview with Daniel Loftus
00:21:37
Loading summary
Transcript23 lines
- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by VoiceGift. What if your family tree could speak? VoiceGift helps preserve the voices and stories that define your family so they're never lost to time. Record memories from parents and grandparents and link them to photos, albums, and heirlooms. Inspired by museum audio guides and designed to last, VoiceGift Play is an audio time capsule for generations. Find your voice@www.voice.gift. that's www.voice gift. Welcome to the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'm Andrew Cook, editor of Family Tree Mag. Irish eyes are smiling this spring, and not just because of St. Patrick's Day and Irish American Heritage Month. In April, residents of the Emerald Isle and genealogists around the world who are researching the Irish diaspora welcomed the Release of the 1926 census of Ireland. One genealogist who's especially excited is Daniel Loftus, a blogger and speaker from County Cork. He's spoken at major genealogy conferences about Irish genealogy and is the founder of Project Infant, which seeks information about victims of the mother and baby institutions in Irish Ireland. And he has a running countdown for the Census release on TikTok. Welcome back to the podcast, Daniel.
- [01:36]
B
Thank you for having me back, Andrew. Good to be here.
- [01:38]
A
Most of our listeners will be most familiar with US Censuses. What role do census records play in Irish genealogy?
- [01:46]
B
So for Aaron, they're really helpful at. It's, it's kind of a universal purpose in that you can use it to gain an insight into the family because it's, it's a snapshot that we get into the past. It's one day, but it's still something that can tell us an awful lot about the family in that it can tell us, you know, what their trade was in life, what they did as a way of life, how many kids they had, how long they've been married. You know, it. It tells us an awful lot of things about our ancestors and can sometimes give contextual clues as well as to why someone wasn't where they should be. They might have been away working, they might have been abroad. There's so many reasons. And that's how the census can help us find those, because it can give us those little clues that might lead us to more records and more discoveries.
- [02:38]
A
That's great. And here in the US censuses at the federal level were taken every 10 years. Is that the case in Ireland as well? Or can you talk about when they were, when they were enumerated?
- [02:50]
B
Yes. So the first census that we have is in 1821. And they would have been every 10 years going up to 1911. We were meant to have one in 1921, but right at the time of that census we were supposed to have one. But we had a war of independence going on that would go on until that December. And when Ireland became the Irish Free State the following year we, we, we had a census every 10 years starting in 1821, which was our first one. And it went 10 years until 1911. And then we were supposed to have one in 1921. But because we had a war of independence going on at the time, it caused the census to be postponed as it was seen as an attack on the kind of people of Ireland in the sense that it was there an invasion of the authority of an alien people. Basically. They didn't want the British government coming in and taking a census while there was a war going on. So that was postponed until April of 1926. And we then had the first of what Ireland would have been at the time being the Irish Free State. So it was the first census as Sair Stought Naeran, which is Irish Free State in Irish. And it was the first glimpse of Ireland kind of post war. We had post War of Independence up to December of 1921 and then from 22 to a year or two on in 1923 or four. So post war, it's the first glimpse we have of Ireland as the Irish Free State post war. So we had the post kind of War of independence period finishing in December 1921. And then we had the Civil war from June of 1922 to May of 1923, which again another war and kind of pushing things on a little bit. And when the census was scheduled or rescheduled again, it was rescheduled for 18 April 1926, which kind of mirrors the same kind of time of the year that they did censuses in. And it was kind of the earlier part of the year. So For April of 1926, it is eclipse of Ireland as Sarah Stolton Heron or the Irish Free State and wouldn't become Republic of Ireland until 1949. So this is kind of Ireland's kind of glimpse as it's kind of blooming into a kind of Free State. But that wasn't without its trials. So it's, it's going to be really insightful in terms of finding out, you know, what went on. Now I think for the non family historian, they may kind of think, oh well, what's the big deal? But when you look and you get kind of the further context in terms of what. What the history behind Ireland at the time was, and, you know, the. The steps it took to get there. It's very meaningful.
- [05:58]
A
It certainly sounds like it reflects a turbulent time in Ireland's history, but maybe also one that reflects a lot of pride and heritage, which I think folks on our side of the pond can certainly appreciate, especially with our own America. 250 celebrations this year. Thinking about the wars of Independence. So you mentioned that there wasn't a 1921 census because of the war, and that after partition and independence, there also became this bifurcation on the island. So part of partition, the. Some of the counties of Northern Ireland decided to remain part of the United Kingdom. So this would also be the first census then, that doesn't include the counties of Northern Ireland, is that right?
- [06:46]
B
Yes. So There was a 1926 census for the counties of Northern Ireland taken, but in 2013 there was a article from the BBC that stated that they had been lost. So there is no 1926 surviving returns for Northern Ireland. So I believe the next one is 1937, although I think it's more kind of generic reports. It does not give a whole lot of detail on them. So I suppose it's kind of a win in the sense that we have, you know, a new census coming out in general, but for people who have heritage or who have ancestors in Northern Ireland for that period, it's going to be a little bit of a loss for them because they will not be able to kind of fill in that gap and there'll be an even bigger one since the 1911 census to their next one.
- [07:37]
A
Yes, that can certainly be a challenge when, you know, a census was taken but they didn't ask enough questions or the records didn't survive. To that end, can you talk a little bit about those earlier censuses, the 1821, the 1911, what of those records survived?
- [07:53]
B
So the ones that did survive, you have fragments of the 1821 through the 1851. Now, majority of them were lost as part of the Public Record Office fire in June of 1922. So this is during the Civil War. And they were kept in the Public Records Office in Dublin. And when it was set on fire, a lot of what was in it was lost. But there were fragments of the 1821 through to 1851 that do survive, but in a very limited capacity. And it's just interesting to see kind of how little information started out in terms like it was very. Like what's the name, what's the age? But it was rounded up and, you know, what kind of information do you see on, like, the earlier ones versus like the 1901, 1911, which are way more detailed and, like, each of them kind of was a step up from the last in terms of what they asked. So, thankfully, it wasn't too kind of, you know, you weren't going backwards or it wasn't much of a step down. So there is that, which is. It's a good thing. But with the 1861 through the 1891 censuses, you would be looking at, I believe it was down to a bureaucratic model of kind of the British bureaucracy that caused the. Those ones or the. For the historic household returns to be destroyed. There's the belief was that they weren't needed, that they did need to be kept, which obviously, as genealogists later on, we are obviously screaming at them, saying, of course they are. What are you talking about? They could answer so many questions. And in theory, I would surmise that even though we don't have civil registration going back as far as the census, do that very easily, if those censuses were still around, or we had a few more, there's a very good chance that we would be able to go back further than we currently can, or that we currently would largely be able
- [10:06]
A
to do, and that that record loss really impacts how you can use these censuses and how, like you said, how far back you can go. You have to rely more on civil records and especially church records, I would think.
- [10:20]
B
Yes, you would. And even then, it's down to whatever parish records are available and it varies by parish. But if you were going off of the National Library of Ireland, you'd be looking at usually about the 1880s is when they tend to stop and then. And it could go back to the 1820s and maybe even sooner or earlier than that in some cases, because I know it can go back to late 1700s on Irish genealogy. So, yeah, it is certainly a loss and one. I think we only wish that we had a TARDIS for to go back and maybe even undo it, but I've yet to find one.
- [11:03]
A
We'll have to keep looking. We can jump in there and stop those bureaucrats, those pesky bureaucrats from trashing all of our census records. So you mentioned that the censuses tended to get more detailed over time. Is that also true for the 1926 census? What details could you expect to find when these records come out in April?
- [11:22]
B
So it's built on a little bit from the 1901 and 1911 ones. In comparison to the 1901 and 1911, there was only one know three kind of small columns, but they were kind of under the heading Particulars as to marriage, which basically entailed how many years a couple had been married and how many kids did they have in total and how many had died. Now we lose the two columns about how many children were born and how many had died, but we still have the one as to how many years the marriage has been going on. So you get a information about marital status and if they're married, you, you're, you're told about that. So that is kind of the main difference between those two. However, from 1911-26 there's a bit of a gap or a bit of a jump in terms of the details taken in that. There's more information in that. There's some bits that were mirrored from the 1921 England and Wales census in this for information relating to orphan hood. So if the mother had died, it says mother dead. If it says father died, father's dead or both parents dead. And it tells you all of that kind of information, which again, it can help you fill in the gaps if you're dealing with like very common names. So if you're looking at a name like John Walsh or Mary Walsh and you're trying to figure out right, when did they die? If you know that they were alive in 1911 and they died before 1926, it shortens that window. So it helps you to try and find the records on Irish genealogy or, or some other burial records. If that is the case, there are more information and probably the one I'm most excited for is the birth location. So they've gone really, really detailed with this. So they will go down to the specific townland as to where somebody was born, which is a complete overhaul than the 1911 census which just gave county or country. So to have a progression from that in that we now have a specific townland giving us even more information, again, it falls back to the common names or if you're dealing with different kind of institutions like, like industrial schools or Magdalene Laundries or modern baby homes, when there's a whole variety of people who would be resident in it, you would get a lot more details to where they come from, helping you to try and trace back further. They give you a bit more information about the occupation or the trade that someone had in life. So they would tell you what they did and if they were self employed or who they worked for and it would give you a lot more context than the other ones did because we would often see farmer, labourer, kind of very generic descriptions of occupations and not a whole lot about, you know, telling us what did they do, what was their role in life. So we, we didn't really get that prior to now in the 1926 census, which is going to be a huge, huge change. And there's other bits that are going to be talking about if there were previous marriages, they would disclose kind of how many kids that they would have had in the previous marriages, which again will add more context. So if now I think it only does for up to the age of 18. So it's sort of, if there's ones that are kind of past that they might necessarily be incorporated and it's not going to be like a one size fits all. It's very much going to be. It's like anything or it's like any sort of historical record, it's a source. And it gives you a further point you can use to, in your research to try and determine is this, is this of any use? Is this gonna help me fill in the gaps? What do I need to try and fill in the gaps if this doesn't tell me what I thought it would? And you know, that is the thing because I think for a lot of people, if they have in mind saying, you know, oh, you know, because for instance, my two paternal grandparents, they will both be in the census or I say they will, let's presume they're not like with their auntie who was down the road or they weren't kind of away, they probably were at home but who knows, they might not have been. So you know, I'm under the impression that my grandmother and my grandfather are going to be there in the respective townlands of Ballure, Clara in Kilchima and Bohola in also close to Kilchima. So I am under the presumption that they are going to be there. And I basically create a little shopping list for my family in terms of who I'm looking at. And then I realized there is no need for me to do the shopping list because there is literally anyone from my grandparents generation up is who I'm looking for. So it would be fairly pointless exercises. All I'd need is just to look at my tree. But it's also a case of it might also make us wonder why they might not have been there if they aren't there. But if they are there, if they're where we think they are, then obviously we don't need to speculate, but there might be some times when we do and kind of think, why wasn't Granny there? Where did she go? And then you might have found that she went with her aunt for the day.
- [16:46]
A
It's always frustrating when someone is where you think they're supposed to be. And what do you mean you weren't at home that day? Or you know, there was a very poor handwriting that day and so the indexing software didn't pick it up. And I know I've had situations where I know my ancestors lived at an address in one census and I assumed, hey, well let's go back and look. But I can't find them and I can't find the address and I have to go in and actually browse through the records. And that level of detail that you mentioned is so striking. I think the townland for our US listeners, I mean that's really the municipality, not even the city. I mean really.
- [17:28]
B
Yeah, it's really precise.
- [17:31]
A
What I'm getting is that 26 Census has not only a variety of information but also a depth of information that's going to help people through turbulent time in history, bridge the gap back to the 1911 census and to civil records, church records that were created around that time. And you stumbled upon also a something we like to cover when there is a census release. This is after all just the latest in a series. We had the 1950 US Census, there was a 1921 Census of England and Wales, 1931 Census of Canada. And one way we can prepare is by creating a list. Even if it's just a short here's who I'm looking for, here's who's supposed to be in the census. And that gives you a little bit of a shortcut. Now, the 1926 census, will these records be available online or is there going to be some sort of delay with the digitization or the indexing?
- [18:34]
B
So I don't work for the National Archives, so I don't kind of know in terms of like how that's going on their end. But I know that the digitization everything is still going and it will be going online at midnight in Ireland on the 18th of April. So I will be staying up and it will probably be one of the few times I will ever do an all nighter. But yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be exciting and it's going to be on the National Archives of Ireland's website. As the previous census returns are being moved to as well. They they're phasing out the old census website that they used that was started in 2007. So they're phasing that one out and they're merging it in with their main one, which is also where the 1926 census is going to be going. So that'll be how that will go. But if you look at the National Archives of Ireland on Instagram, I think their handle is NAR Ireland. They do loads of little Instagram reels talking about the digitization process, the indexing, all of that. So it's still in process. And they give like little updates in terms of how the kids, they would have to do like conservation works on some of them if they were like in dire need of repair. So, you know, there's a whole lot of stuff on their Instagram account, which is what I'd recommend doing if you're trying to get more information about that.
- [19:56]
A
That's fascinating and testament not only to how much work is involved, but also how precious these documents are. Reminder for us in our own archives maybe, and we'll be sure to link to not only the National Archives Instagram page, but that search portal you talked about where the census records will be. We also included a tutorial for those in a recent issue of the magazine, which I'll link to online. Well, Daniel, I really appreciate you joining us and telling us all about this exciting record release. Where can we find you online and learn more about Project Infant?
- [20:31]
B
So if you're trying to find me, I'm my own name, Daniel Loftus on most things or most social handles are danielloftusgeneology. And if you're wanting to learn more about Project infant, go to projectinfant.ie.
- [20:46]
A
and to learn more about the census from Daniel, check out his article that will appear on our website later this month, which I'll link to in the show notes. Well, I hope you enjoy your all nighter. We'll be over here celebrating with you, although It'll be, whatever, 5pm for us, a little more reasonable of a time. Yes, thank you, Daniel.
- [21:06]
B
Thanks, Andrew.
- [21:08]
A
Thanks for joining me. In this month's episode, the Family Tree Magazine podcast, you can find the show notes from this episode and all episodes@familytreemagazine.com podcasts while on our website, you can also sign up for our free email newsletter where you'll receive free genealogy resources each weekday, including links to new podcast episodes as they're released. Until next time, have fun climbing your family tree.