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Family Tree Magazine Podcast
Finding Female Ancestors – An Interview with Gena Philibert-Ortega
00:41:54
Listen for expert advice on overcoming common obstacles in learning about the women in your family tree.
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- [00:00]
A
One of Family Tree Magazine's Best of 2024 is Genealogy Research software called Goldie May. It can help you speed up your research, untangle your family tree, and stay organized. It even has an automatic research log. It does not replace your genealogy programs, but it might replace the sticky notes on your monitor and papers on your desk, all those places where you keep notes and you figure out your research.
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B
There's.
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A
There's lots to do for free. Get started at GoldieMay.com that's G-O-L-I E M A Y.com welcome to the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'm Lisa Louise Cook. Women present unique challenges for genealogy researchers.
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B
And in her new article, it's called the Feminine Mystique, author Gina Philibert Ortega offers up five common obstacles and how to overcome them. And I'm happy to say that she is here to share those strategies with us today. Welcome back to the podcast, Gina.
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C
Thank you, Lysa. It's great to be here.
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B
You know, this list is great. Gosh sakes, we're talking about half the ancestors.
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C
That's right.
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B
We better know what we're doing. Let's run through these, because you've got five great challenges and lots of strategies that go with them. Definitely the first one that you address is. And you call it. I don't know where to start. How do you deal with that situation when sometimes that is the case, isn't is.
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C
And I think sometimes when you've got a name and maybe a date or just you want to know more about this person, it's kind of hard to know to start. And it's easy to just maybe go online and put in the name and date in a database and hope for the best. But really, one of the things you want to consider is writing down what you do know. And that can include a timeline. Now, that's going to help focus you, in my opinion. So if you have a date, then put that on the timeline and think about what should I be looking for with her? Is she alive between 1900 and 1930? So what censuses do I need to look at? Uh, were there vital records, where she lived, where did she live? Uh, you know, what cemeteries are there? Was there an event like the American Civil War that happened during her lifetime that might also lead to records. So I think when you do a timeline and. Or a research log, it helps to keep you focused and helps you to do better research.
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B
Yes, I agree. Particularly in a case where it is more of a brick wall situation. You have a female ancestor and you're just not making a lot of progress. We kind of have to take it to the next level with the research plan. So that's a great strategy. And then we go right into probably what I think is the most common challenge that people face. And you call it what's her name? And it's not just that women are changing their last names when they get married, but it's also about how they get named in records too, right?
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C
Well, absolutely, because sometimes, you know, it's Mrs. Whatever his name is. Right. It could be initials. I was with some people the other day and they said they had no idea Some of the nicknames for names that maybe don't exist today, like, for example, Peggy is Margaret. You know, we don't. That's not something we think of today. And so there's historical nicknames that were not, you know, Sally and Sarah, for example. So we really do need to not only think about how is her name listed, but most likely misses Whatever her. His name is if she's married, but other versions of her name as well. So once again, I tell people you need to keep a list. And you put her name down and then all the variations of her name, so initials, nicknames, you know, all of that. Middle or first, middle, last, and then all the versions of her husband's name. And that's how you search, because she could be listed under a lot of things. And I haven't even discussed misspellings, you know, or just errors.
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B
Well, and I think of.
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A
Here's a prime example.
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B
Newspaper articles.
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C
Yes.
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B
You know, you're looking for somebody in the newspaper. And I had my husband's great grandmother. There must have been like 16 different variations on how she was referred to in various articles. She was a musician and she'd play at different parties, and it was wild. So having that list, I love that strategy. Have that list. So it's right there in front of you. You can refer to it and make sure you've checked them all.
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C
Absolutely. And I know that when I start feeling like, oh, I can't find anything, it's usually because I haven't looked through the list and use different names, you know, especially newspapers. That's a really good example. There's a woman I researched. She was a painter. She's not known today, but she went by her initials, E. G. Stetson, and Stetson was her first husband's name. She had other husbands. And so. But in California, there was a man named E. G. Stetson. So I have to be careful when I research that I'm actually looking at him, who's no relation at all, versus her. And then she went by her first name, sometimes her second married name, sometimes her maiden name. So really, that list is going to help you. And because digitized newspaper websites are constantly adding content, you need to check back. You know, a lot of them have a email alert feature, so go ahead and set that alert, and then you don't have to do as much work, but you're going to have to either do that or check back often to see what you're missing.
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B
Great point. Okay, in the third challenge, you talk about researching locations. So tell us what you mean by that.
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C
Well, I think too often in genealogy, we think in terms of putting in a name, date, place into a search engine and getting, you know, it's almost like a slot machine or something. But in reality, location has something to do with what records are kept and what isn't kept and what's available. So, for example, New England has town records, but California doesn't.
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B
Right.
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C
We have, you know, we don't really do city stuff. It's usually a county. So you need to make sure that you research by location. Now, you can do that on the big genealogy websites like. So let's use ancestry as an example. Instead of just doing their basic or advanced search, go to up at the top, there's search and then all collections, and then scroll down and there's a map. You can click on whatever state or country and it will tell you everything ancestry has. You might be getting frustrated because you can't find something, but in reality, it's not there. They don't have everything, and so they may not have that record. So we need to think in terms of what localities have what records, and then what localities are represented on those major genealogy websites.
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B
Yeah. And when you're looking for women and you already have the challenge of the name and other situations, that's where that research plan comes into play again, where you can track all these different locations and how they are organized in terms of that particular locality. Absolutely.
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C
Well, and I mean, just think of it this way. Women, they won. I'm using air quotes. The vote in 1920 with the 19th Amendment. But women in some states, like California, where I am, gave women the right to vote in 1911. Now, there's records that are available for that. So knowing what records are available and when suffrage started, you can find additional records you might not have thought about before.
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B
Oh, that's a great Point. Okay, next up, number four. We've seen this before. You have here she disappears between census years. How many of us have said that? I think she just up and disappeared, you know, during. Between two census. It seems like that. What can you do in those situations when you're looking for records for women?
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C
Well, obviously you should consider she might have died.
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B
Right.
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C
So that's a possibility, especially if you don't have her in anything else. So kill her off, you know, start looking for death information and see if that is what happened. So that's a possibility. The other possibility is she got married and changed her surname again. So then you might want to look for people who she might be living with, like children who. Who might retain the previous husband's name. So you can also do different kinds of creative searching. Like if she has a uncommon first name, you could just search by the first name. You could search by her first. You could go, let's say to ancestry, go to the 1910 census and just use that search engine to look for her by her first name. Maybe some kids by their first name. You could do a few different things to try to rule out that, you know, she died or she was taken by aliens. I think the other thing to remember is there are errors, and those errors can be errors in transcription. Those can be people missed in the census. So, you know, start looking at other places as well. That's where getting back to looking at the place she lives, going and seeing what records exist for that might help you there. Especially if there's marriage records or something where, yeah, clearly she got married again. I always tell people to go the familysearch catalog and do a search on, let's say, the county and the state, see what records exist, and then try those and see if maybe, you know, it's just a transcription error or she did remarry or something like that.
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B
Yeah, I like that idea of combining particularly like a first name, if it's more than just Mary, right?
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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B
But you have a couple of unique identifiers about a person, their birth year, their first name. And you combine that, as you said, with a couple of children's names or other things that now make her far more unique than just anybody with that name. And if you're doing that kind of search within a specific locality, that can be really effective.
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C
It can. Now, obviously, you may still not have any luck, right?
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B
Yeah.
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C
So then what you could consider is where she previously lived in the census before. You could search the next census frame by frame. That is an option. Now, if she's living in Chicago. That's going to take a while. Yeah, but if it's a smaller area, that is a possibility, because, remember, there can be transcription errors, and so it may be indexed incorrectly. So that's why, knowing that Genealogy Bank, FamilySearch, MyHeritage, FindMyPast, they all have the census. So don't just stick to one. Look at all of them and see if you can find it.
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B
Yes. And how about some favorite records that fall between census records? I mean, off the top of my head, I can think about city directories, but there, again, we might be focusing a little bit more on her husband's name, if she's married, in order to find her. Um, that kind of actually brings us to. Women are oftentimes implied in records, aren't they?
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C
They can be. Sometimes she's not named at all. It might just be and wife. Mm. But, you know, I love newspapers. They're the great equalizer. And so, you know, yes, city directories are an option, but women aren't always listed, or they're just listed by their first name, which may not help you if she remarried, if you don't know that second husband's name. So I would look at newspapers, and I would, you know, do some creative searching there. You know, put just her first name or put somebody who's related to her in that. One of the things I tell people is if you don't know her maiden name, then look for her married name, and you might find an obit for a husband or not for a husband for her father, her brothers, or an unmarried sister, and then that gives you the maiden name. So, you know, newspapers were so lucky to have so much online. So definitely in those in between census years.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Look at the city directory, but also look at newspapers. And then once again, look, what is a record that's specific to that area that you might not have thought of.
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B
And that's where that familysearch wiki comes in. Because you can look up, like you said, the location.
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C
Yes.
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B
Well, number five, we kind of touched on it. Why isn't she in that record? Are there other reasons why?
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C
Well, I gave the voting example. Right. She's not in the voting records because women didn't have the right to vote, or there were women who didn't want the vote. So she may have had the right to vote and decided not to exercise it. So there's that example. You know, prior to 1850, women were married. Women were covered by their husband's legal rights called coverture. And, you know, so they're not in a lot of things that wouldn't be that surprising. They didn't have a lot of legal rights. So that's something to consider. It might be that she's not in the record, because she's just not in the record. And so we have to keep that in mind, too. That's where that timeline comes back into play. Looking at the timeline, thinking through, you know, what record should she, or what would I expect to see her in, and then, you know, kind of following that and like you said, going to the wiki, you know, looking for whatever records might exist.
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B
Well, it's interesting you mentioned the timeline, and I noticed in the article, it spans across two of the pages here, Talk a little bit, because I know this is really your area of expertise, is what are some of the significant points along the timeline when it comes to women's history? And then, therefore, we need to know that in order to be able to research them.
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C
Well, when I think about some of the dates, we need to be cognizant of, I think about, like the American Civil War, for example, and knowing that, you know, women may have received a pension on their husband's service. So knowing when, you know, if he was fighting with the Union or the Confederates. The Confederates, it would be with the state they fought for, and the Union would be the federal government. Knowing when those were available could help you find records. Suffrage is another one. You know, I gave the. The thing about women in 1911 in California, my female ancestors, they voted in 1911. Now there were women who voted even earlier than that. Utah, it's 1870, but the records aren't extant. So. But you might find something in a newspaper. That 1850 date where you start seeing married women's property Acts is an important one because that gave married women the ability to basically act on their own and have rights to things like their kids and. And money they made and that kind of thing. I think the other very important date that most people don't know about is 1922. So between 1907 and 1922, American women who married men who were not US citizens lost their citizenship. That was only during that time period, 1922, the Cable act stopped that, but those women still had to apply for their citizenship. And then later they didn't have to apply. They didn't have to naturalize, but they did have to do some court procedures, swear an oath and stuff. So. And that law changes and does all kinds of things. But what's important to know is prior to if you had A woman who was not a US citizen, who married a US citizen, she gained citizenship. That's why there's no citizenship papers for her. So my great great grandmother came from Germany, came to the U.S. married a U.S. citizen, she became a U.S. citizen because of him. It was derivative. But between 1907 and 1922, American women who married non U.S. men lost their citizenship. So what does it mean to lose your citizenship? Well, when suffrage comes into play, you can't vote because you don't have citizenship. Now sometimes some people do kind of get this breakthrough where they do vote and nobody catches it, but, you know, they couldn't get passports, they couldn't, you know, get government benefits. There was all kinds of things they couldn't do. So that's one of the examples I think we need to keep in mind. Because that means records and like you.
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B
Said, them being left out of a record and you can't find somebody who isn't there.
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C
Exactly, exactly.
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B
Well, gosh. And you really, I think, made the case and I hope everybody listening really, and takes it to heart because it's so true. You, you have to know the locality of the jurisdiction, you have to do the laws and how they impact them. All of that impacts records. That's what makes genealogy so fascinating, doesn't it?
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C
Well, it does. And you know, it's not a quick, let me do a search and 10 minutes later I've done everything. You know, a lot of people are researching maybe one woman for years. Years, Years. I mean, the E. G. Stetson I've been looking at for a decade. So, you know, the more you learn, the better researcher you're going to be. And I think the more you concentrate on the place and time she lived, the more likely you're going to find what you need.
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B
Yeah, I have to share with you, Gina, you'll appreciate this. A couple of months ago, my sister in law reached out to me and she's like, you know, I found something in cleaning up my house you might be interested in. She hadn't seen this book in 60 years, but she had a book on her shelf and it was 50 pages written by their great great grandmother. Oh my gosh, she lived through the Civil War, she wrote it. She was in the 1940s when she wrote it. And my sister in law photocopied it. So send it to me. I'm processing it and you know, using AI to get it all transcribed and digitized and summarized. And I'm looking at this going, the beautiful thing is, is that women did tend to Keep a journal or record their thoughts. They had maybe some time in the home and they could write something down. Just when I thought, I'll just probably never find anything else on this person, all of a sudden she's speaking to me again through 50 pages of her remembrances of her life growing up. I just, it. It gives you hope that there's going to be other things that can surface at any time. Right.
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C
And that's amazing. And, you know, the thing is, people have stuff and you don't know they have stuff.
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B
She didn't know she had it.
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C
Exactly. And so that's why I think, you know, letting people in your family know that you're interested, having a public profile on ancestry so people can find you, you know, checking out, like, familysearch, Someone posted my great, great grandmother's china. I love that. You know, and so it's out there. It just sometimes takes time.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? It might be sitting on ebay somewhere. Somebody's cleaning out their closet. There's the book.
- [20:06]
C
Absolutely.
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A
Gosh.
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B
Well, you. You're always just wonderful resource for us. We so appreciate it. Of course, the article that Gina wrote is called Feminine Mystique. It is in the March April 2025 issue of Family Tree magazine. And I know often you teach classes and speak on this, tell folks how they can get involved and learn more from you.
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C
Well, I think the best way is to follow me online, so on Instagram or Facebook, because that's usually where I post everything. Right now, in fact, I'm doing some teaching on women, so definitely follow me online.
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A
Fantastic. Wonderful to talk to you, my friend. Thank you, Gina.
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C
All right, thank you.
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A
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'll have links to everything that we've talked about today on the show over at the Show Notes page, and you can find that@familytreemagazine.com podcast and there you'll also find a huge back catalog of past episodes full of topics that are going to help you in your genealogy research. And when you stop by the website, be sure to sign up for our free newsletter. That really is the perfect way to stay in touch with Family Tree magazine and get all the latest and greatest news, plus the announcements of each and every new podcast episode. I'm Lisa Louise Cook, and I hope that you'll come by and visit me at my website, genealogy gems.com and there you will find the Genealogy Gems podcast and a link over to our Genealogy Gems YouTube channel. So until next time, have fun climbing your family tree.
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C
Sa Sa. Sam Sa.