Podcast Summary: Family Tree Magazine Podcast

Episode: Making Use of DNA Painter – An Interview with Jonny Perl
Host: Andrew Cook, Family Tree Magazine
Guest: Jonny Perl, Founder of DNA Painter
Date: April 1, 2026

Main Theme

This episode features an in-depth interview with Jonny Perl, the founder of DNA Painter, one of the leading third-party tools for genetic genealogy research. The conversation explores the origins, features, and future of DNA Painter, key concepts in DNA matching and inheritance, and the evolving landscape of genetic genealogy tools. Perl also offers practical advice for beginners and previews new features under development.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is DNA Painter? (00:44–01:44)

• Tool Overview: DNA Painter is a website (dnapainter.com) for genealogists working with DNA results. It provides visual tools for mapping DNA relationships and analyzing genetic matches.
• User Groups: It offers both accessible features for all users (visualizing direct lines, relationship calculators) and more advanced tools (chromosome mapping, analysis for the adoption community and unknown parent searches).
• Notable quote (Jonny Perl, 00:50):
  "There are tools...for visualizing your direct line, investigating what the relationship you might have with a DNA match is...and then there's chromosome mapping...it's a very engaging way of creating a kind of DNA, a sort of genetic companion to your pedigree chart."

2. Data Privacy and DNA Painter’s Approach (01:44–03:23)

• No Raw DNA Needed: DNA Painter does not require users to upload raw DNA files, except for possible upcoming features. Most functions rely on data already provided by testing companies (e.g., centimorgan values, chromosome segment data).
• Privacy Perspective: Avoiding raw data uploads is a security measure and practical simplification.
• Notable quote (Jonny Perl, 01:51):
  “Some people see the visuals...and think, ‘If I just provide this file, it'll magically turn into that.’...You don't really need that data necessarily.”

3. Interpreting Shared DNA & The Shared Centimorgan Project (03:34–09:20)

• Why Numbers Aren't Everything: The amount of DNA shared (measured in centimorgans, or cM) is only a clue—inheritance is random, and relatives may share unexpectedly high or low amounts with you.
• Shared CM Tool: Built in partnership with Blaine Bettinger, this tool contextualizes DNA relationships using user-contributed real-world data.
• Range, Not Just Averages: Always look at the range of possible relationships, not just the estimated average.
• Special Tip:
  Click on the relationship boxes in the Shared CM tool to view a histogram showing the distribution of shared DNA for each relationship (Jonny Perl, 08:43):
  “If you click on it, you get a histogram...you can see in a flash, am I kind of still near the middle or am I way off to the side?”

4. Clarity and Accessibility in Genealogy Language (07:37–08:03)

• Discussion on how databases like MyHeritage have simplified terminology for relationships (e.g., "the child of your cousin" instead of “first cousin once removed”) to make genetic genealogy more user-friendly for newcomers.

5. Getting Started with DNA Painter (10:29–12:50)

• Ease of Use: DNA Painter now guides users with an orange “Start Here” button, which explains the main features, required data, potential outcomes, and relative difficulty level.
• Guided Introduction: New users can identify the best starting point on the site for their needs.
• Notable quote (Jonny Perl, 10:50):
  “One piece of work I've managed to do recently is the orange button...I kind of try to sum up six of the main features on the site. And I do it in a specific way...what do you need in order to use it?”

6. The “What Are the Odds?” Tool (13:00–15:48)

• How It Works: Users can model possible family trees for mystery matches or brick wall cases—assigning likelihoods to different relationships based on shared DNA and known family structures.
• Scores Are Guidance, Not Proof: The tool is information-driven, not a definitive answer engine. Users should see it as an aid to analysis, not a replacement for critical thinking.
• Collaboration & Ongoing Development: Co-developed with Leah Larkin, with updates as recently as 2024.

7. Changes and Trends in Genetic Genealogy (15:48–21:44)

• Field Evolution: Since DNA Painter's 2017 launch, genealogy databases have grown and platforms now offer powerful clustering and visualization tools. Companies like Ancestry and 23andMe have improved internal tools, including more sophisticated clustering.
• Clustering: Identification of groups among your matches helps link matches to specific lines of ancestry.
• Education Level: Although seasoned genealogists have mostly already tested and caught on to these methods, newcomers face the same learning curve as previous generations.
• Business Models & New Technology: Testing companies are introducing subscriptions or charges for advanced features, adapting to changing markets. New technologies like next-generation sequencing promise more precision.

8. Upcoming Features from DNA Painter (21:44–24:08)

• Trait Analysis Using Raw DNA (with care): Jonny Perl previews a feature in development—users could (optionally) load their raw data to get trait analysis (e.g., tendency for curly hair, wet/dry earwax) connected to mapped chromosome locations and identified ancestors.
• Privacy Stance Maintained: No raw files are stored; only a few values are extracted temporarily.
• Notable quote (Jonny Perl, 22:54):
  “Because we're in your chromosome map, I can do more than the testing companies can do. I can say...you have the gene for curly hair and it looks like you got it from your grandmother Rose, for example.”
• Potential for AI: Consideration of how artificial intelligence might interact with DNA and genealogy data in the future, weighing the potential against privacy concerns.

9. Where to Learn More & Community Resources (25:37–END)

• Stay Connected:
  • Newsletter: dnapainter.com/mailinglist – monthly updates on DNA and genealogy, plus tidbits from history.
  • Facebook Groups: DNA Painter User Group, What Are the Odds Group.
  • Social media: LinkedIn, BlueSky, Twitter for updates and conversation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Chromosome Mapping's Appeal:
  “It’s kind of geeky, if you like…but it’s a very engaging way of creating a kind of DNA, a sort of genetic companion to your pedigree chart.” – Jonny Perl, 00:50

• On the randomness of inheritance:
  “One of my nieces…inherited 33 or 34% of her DNA from my mother and only 16 or 17% from my father…Once you get beyond that first generation, there is a lot of randomness.” – Jonny Perl, 04:01

• On clicking for more insight:
  “If you click on it, you get a histogram, right. That gives you the kind of distribution of what people said the amount shared for that relationship was...I’ve been trying to get people to click on that box for years.” – Jonny Perl, 08:43

• On the future of user data:
  “I don’t actually want your DNA file, but I’m going to extract just a few values…so I can say, well, it looks like you’ve got the gene for curly hair. And…you got it from your grandmother Rose.” – Jonny Perl, 21:48

• On the excitement of current trends:
  “Exciting times. There’s still lots of new things happening. We have MyHeritage and Family Tree DNA are moving their autosomal tests to kind of next generation sequencing. So we don’t even know what the implications of that will be. But it’s potentially exciting.” – Jonny Perl, 21:15

• On educating new users:
  “For those new testers, they’re going through exactly the same loops that I was going through myself...they’re thinking, well, what does this mean?...Everything’s a bit more fuzzy and nuanced than you want it to be.” – Jonny Perl, 19:15

Conclusion

This episode offers a lively and practical glimpse into how DNA Painter supports genealogists, demystifying the complexity of genetic inheritance and giving newcomers and experts alike tools to explore and visualize their DNA matches. Jonny Perl’s insights highlight both exciting recent advances and the ongoing need for accessible education as the field continues to develop.

For more resources

• Visit DNA Painter: dnapainter.com
• Join the newsletter: dnapainter.com/mailinglist
• Explore more podcasts and show notes: familytreemagazine.com/podcasts