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Family Tree Magazine Podcast
Perfecting the Cemetery Transcription – An Interview with Robbie Gorr
00:43:10
In this episode of the Family Tree Magazine podcast, Robbie Gorr provides tips for the mastering the cemetery transcription.
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- [00:00]
A
Today's episode is sponsored by Newspapers.com Break Down Genealogy Brick walls with a subscription to the largest online newspaper archive. Did you know Newspapers.com has over 1 billion pages of digitized newspapers dating back to 1690. Their growing collection includes papers from the U.S. uK, Canada, Australia and beyond. Discover birth and marriage announcements, obituaries, and everyday stories about your ancestors. In seconds, Newspapers.com can help you fill the gaps between vital records and reveal details about your ancestors lives that you can't find anywhere else. Their easy to use search feature lets you filter your results by date, location, specific paper and more. And when you find something interesting, newspapers.com makes it a snap to share it with your family and friends. You can even save it directly to your ancestry tree. Come explore one billion pages and make infinite discoveries. Today on Newspapers.com use promo code FamilyTreeMagazine for a 20% discount on your subscription. That's promo code FamilyTreeMagazine@ Newspapers.com welcome to the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'm Lisa Louise Cook. Today we're diving into a fascinating and vital aspect of genealogical research that often goes cemetery transcription. My guest, Robbie Gore has spent years walking through graveyards with notebooks and cameras in hand, carefully documenting the stories etched in stone that might otherwise lost to time and weather. He's written a new article, it's called Zen and the Art of Cemetery Transcription. And that's going to help you unlock the wealth of information waiting in your local cemeteries. And good news, he's here today to tell us more about that. Welcome back to the podcast, Robbie.
- [02:17]
B
Thank you, Lisa. It's great to be back again.
- [02:19]
A
You got to start us off by telling us how did you get so involved in cemetery transcription?
- [02:27]
B
You know, it all was very innocent in the beginning. I was doing my family history like everybody else and going to all the places and all the sources I needed to find information. And one of those places were the local cemeteries. I used to scour through cemeteries looking for family members, copying down the information that was on their tombstones and adding it to my family history. And I found it was a really enjoyable activity for me to do. And I found myself going back to the cemeteries multiple times. And I think it had something to do with the inscriptions, the verses, the pictures on the tombstones. It was all very interesting to me in a way that not everybody, I guess, is attracted to cemeteries and tombstones.
- [03:23]
A
Well, it sounds like you discovered that there's a lot more there than just names and dates.
- [03:28]
B
Oh, definitely. And especially the ones that were connected to my own family. I am part German, part French. And here there are tombstones, family tombstones that are in both of those languages. So it was a really great opportunity to connect with my cultural heritage as well.
- [03:49]
A
Absolutely. Well, we're hoping that you're going to help all of us be able to make the trip and really get some wonderful information out of our visits to the cemetery. I know from looking at your article there's more to it than we might think. What do you suggest? That people need to prepare ahead of time before they even go.
- [04:12]
B
Yeah, there's definitely a lot more to it than just going to the cemetery and writing it all down. You do need to plan in advance. And of course, you check the weather. You don't want to be going on a day when there's lots of precipitation in the forecast or the temperatures or the wind are going to cause problems for you. And as a result, one of the first things you need is to dress for the weather and prepare for any unexpected conditions that you might come across in the cemetery. It's always wise to have a jacket and boots along in case the weather changes unexpectedly or the conditions in the cemetery are more wet or colder than you had expected. And on the hot days, you might also require a sun hat, sunglasses, some sunscreen. And I always recommend insect repellent, no matter what the season. And then, of course, you need some supplies to help you do the job. My favorite writing tool is a pencil, just because if you should get your paper damp where ink and marker will smudge or run, the pencil never fails you. But it's always wise to bring a spare or a sharpener in case your pencil gets dull through use. And I also bring something firm, lightweight, and easy to carry to act as a writing surface. My tool of choice is just a standard clipboard because I can anchor my papers to the board while I'm writing. I sometimes put an elastic band around the bottom to keep the breeze from lifting the papers and blowing them around. And then, of course, when you reach a certain age, getting up and down to the ground to see what's in the low part of the tombstone is not always as easy as it once was. So I sometimes will bring along a garden kneeling bench, which helps me get down and up, but also allows me to flip it over and sit on it if I'm doing a particularly lengthy transcription in one spot. And I've seen people also bring those portable folding lawn chairs along with them and just move it along as they Go through the cemetery. I've also developed my own little cemetery kit that I tend to bring along. It's just a bag that has a few essentials in there. I bring along a trowel just in case I have to do any clearing of earth from around a tombstone. I bring some scissors or clippers that I can trim away grass and weeds in front of. I always bring a pair of work gloves or gardening gloves to protect my hands. A spray bottle of water and a soft cloth is a good idea for cleaning the monument. They sometimes get covered in dirt or moss or lichen. And there are only certain things that you can do to safely remove that without causing damage to the tombstone. I also bring some wet wipes and a towel for cleaning myself. Because you do tend to get a little dusty and dirty while you're out there. And the last thing I always make sure I have along with me is some kind of a reflective object like a mirror or a piece of shiny metal that will help to redirect the light and make the reading of the engraving easier for transcribing or for photographing. Not every side of the tombstone is going to be in direct sunlight. And so by reflecting the light onto a surface, you can create some shadow effects that make it easier to read.
- [08:05]
A
Oh, that's a great point. I can tell you have had a lot of experience doing this because you've really figured out the details of it, the things that most of us might show up and go, oh, I wish I'd thought about bringing. That sounds like a great toolkit.
- [08:19]
B
I've learned through heart experience to have things at hand when you need them and not be standing there wishing you'd brought them.
- [08:28]
A
Yes, exactly. Well, so now you get to the cemetery, and some of them can be quite large. Once you get there, what are you doing to approach it, and where do you start?
- [08:40]
B
I always start by just generally surveying the layout of the cemetery. You want to identify natural rows of monuments. You want to see if there are specific sections or if the cemetery has been divided with pathways or roadways. And then I usually pick a corner of the cemetery to start recording. Generally, I choose the front of the cemetery because that's where the older stones are. And I work my way towards newer stones in the back. But it will all depend on how the cemetery has been laid out. You'll get some sense of it before you start. And wherever you start, it's going to be fine. One of the things you'll need to do is to create a map as you're Going along. And I usually just start with a blank piece of paper, give a quick sketch of the area, and try to put in some reference points and identifiable features like fences, trees, sheds, or those pathways and lanes. And then as you begin transcribing, you number every tombstone and you mark it on your map as well. I draw a line for each row, and I put the first number in that row on one end and the last number of the transcription at the end of the row. And then you just proceed through the cemetery following that same procedure, row by row, section by section, consecutively, numbering and labeling each monument as you proceed.
- [10:19]
A
Well, that's a great way to kind of give yourself your own breadcrumb trail, because you can't really do it all in one day sometimes, right?
- [10:26]
B
No, definitely not. Even the smaller cemeteries can cause you to go back several times if they're older. And they have a lot of inscriptions. Some of it is very fine or lengthy, and it all takes time to record it. So you definitely need to mark your progress. But you have to think of it as well, too, that this transcription that you're producing is hopefully going to help someone else to find an important monument for their research. And so you have to consider that the map you're making, while it doesn't have to be to scale, has to be at least accurate enough that someone else looking at your transcription can also find the same monuments that you've been recording.
- [11:13]
A
And speaking of recording, you mentioned that you use your paper and pencil. Makes good sense. What kind of tech tools are you using in this project?
- [11:21]
B
I tend to just use my digital camera, but there are people who will do it in lots of other different ways. One of the most common ways, I think, is people will make an oral recording of what they're seeing on the monuments, and they can do that with a specific recording device. I remember in the old days, we used to use a tape recorder with a microphone. But these days, people have apps on their phones that allow you to read the information found on monuments out loud and record it in that way. I always suggest that names be spoken and then spelled, like the old spelling bee method.
- [12:08]
A
Yeah.
- [12:09]
B
And that all dates should be repeated with careful enunciation to make an accurate written transcription later on. And it's really vital that every tombstone inscription recorded should be assigned that reference number or code to correlate and match the written map that you're still creating as you proceed, in the same way you would if you were doing a written recording. And, of course, the golden rule of cemetery transcription is to Copy everything that you see and copy exactly what you see as it appears. There are people who will match line for line on their transcription as it appears on the tombstone. It takes up a lot of space to do it that way. I prefer to use a forward slash at the end of every line of inscription. Then at the end of that slash, you continue with the second line of text and another forward slash when you come to the end of it. It saves a lot of space in the end to do it that way. And when you're recording, you can just say slash or end of line to mark that same thing. In that way, somebody looking at your transcription or listening to it later on can picture how the information is organized on the tombstone if they don't have a picture of it. I like to use my camera to record the information on a tombstone, especially if I don't have a lot of time or the day is getting late or the weather is changing. I'll pull out the camera and take photographs from all sides of a monument that contain information which I can then later transcribe into writing or record or find some other method to present that image. People also can use the camera on their phone to do it, as those cameras now are very good at taking accurate, clear pictures.
- [14:16]
A
Yeah, they've come such a long way. And the fact that you can even enhance the photo afterward, like you said, if it's a very dim light, you can add a little more highlight or a little more contrast, and all of a sudden what was difficult to read starts to really jump out at you.
- [14:33]
B
Absolutely. And you know, my helpful tip here is that I tend to choose an overcast day to take photographs in the cemetery because it eliminates most issues with light and shadow. So if you're not an excellent photographer, and I certainly don't count myself as one, than just choosing a day where there really is no bright sun, creating shadows, and all your pictures turn out well.
- [15:03]
A
That is a great tip. I like that. Now, I know that there are many grave site and tombstone type sharing websites out there. Do you consult with those before you go? And do you share what you're finding after you've been.
- [15:18]
B
I maintain a few that are personal family sites, but I tend not to upload my images to any of these sites. I do check them occasionally, especially if I'm having a controversy with something that I've recorded and I want to see it again. And instead of taking the time to drive all the way out, I can just call up the image from the comfort of my chair at home. And see it again. So there are a lot of websites out there that help you to do that. Find a Grave is probably the largest free crowdsourcing website that's out there. There's also billion graves and Internet.com, but there are also a lot of specialized websites, websites out there that deal with particular subject areas. There are military graves, and one that comes to mind is the Wargraves photographic Project. Another is one that deals with religious denominations. And the Jewishgen online worldwide burial registry is one of the largest growing sites for a religious group. And then specific countries have their own sites as well. Here in Canada we have Canadian headstones. And those are just a few examples of many that are available online that you can share your own digital images with or go searching for pictures that have already been recorded.
- [16:59]
A
Great resource list. When you're out there at the cemetery, what do you run into and what can people expect when they are out there? What do other people think when they see you going from stone to stone to stone?
- [17:11]
B
Yes, occasionally there are other people in the cemetery when you're working. And often there are stares and whispers. And some of the curious will even approach you with questions about what you're doing or what you know. Because sometimes they're there doing some research as well, too. They're often very surprised to hear that you're there recording the information on the tombstones. A lot of people consider that memorial monuments are permanent fixtures, but they're really not. All cemeteries are susceptible to the weather, to time, to vandalism. And sometimes you run into people who can be a source of information for you as well. Recently I was in a local cemetery. A car pulled in off the road and the driver came over to the fence and waved me over. It turned out she was the caretaker of the cemetery and had access to the burial plot plan. So we exchanged information. And now my transcription of that cemetery is going to be able to have a burial list of people who are in that cemetery but don't have memorial markers. So that turned out to be a lucky break for me. Generally, though, when you're working in the cemetery, it's a solitary business there. You can spend hours alone in the burying ground just recording and mapping. And the isolation is there even when you are working with a partner or you're part of a group effort. I've often been part of the local genealogy group when they've gone out to tackle the transcribing of a particularly large cemetery in our area. But you're focused on your own task and you're trying to be accurate in your work. So even when you are with a group, it's still a very solitary activity. And at times it can be very peaceful and pleasant as well, depending on the weather. Some of my favorite times are being in a cemetery on a warm summer morning or on a sunny autumn afternoon. And some of the places are situated in particularly scenic locations. On top of hilltops or with green forest around or spread out over an expansive vista. One of my favorites that I'm currently working in is on up point of land that juts out into a lake. So the cemetery is actually surrounded on three sides by the lake. And it's wonderful scenic views. But even the smells and the sounds are very different from other cemeteries that I've been in.
- [20:05]
A
How interesting. It's a fascinating work to do and it sounds like it could be quite lovely as well.
- [20:11]
B
Yes, there are occasions when you're in a cemetery by yourself and you're out of sight of houses or neighbors and you hear sounds around you or the wind is rustling leaves around you. And it can be just a little unsettling at times. But again, you are in a cemetery so you have to kind of expect those things.
- [20:36]
A
Yes. Just you and those who have passed.
- [20:39]
B
That's right.
- [20:40]
A
So when you're all done and you wrap up your work and head home, what are some of the things you might need to do on the other side of getting your transcriptions done?
- [20:49]
B
I spend a lot of the good weather out doing the actual transcribing. And I leave a lot of the other activities, the follow up work, for days when the weather is inclement and especially through the winter months when you definitely can't get out to do anything. I call these the further adventures in transcription work. One of the things that it's important to do is to compile a history of the burying ground, Whether you have monuments or not. It's always interesting to find out who owned the land previously, how it came to be a burying ground when the cemetery was opened, and any interesting information about people buried in the cemetery. Sometimes you have to create a burial list if there are few monuments available. Or in some cases where there are no monuments at all. So you've got to do a lot of research in newspapers, local histories, land records, church records. And sometimes you've got to get out and interview people who live in the area and around the property to to get the story and find out exactly as much information as you can about who may be buried there. And it's really important too that the transcription you produce is accurate. And so you spend a lot of time checking and rechecking your work. If you've made a written transcription, you want to go through it and make sure that you've noticed, created any errors in copying the work over. And of course, it needs to be indexed as well. And the map has to be redrawn neatly and properly labeled with a directional arrow to match that final transcription. And then you have to decide, what am I going to do with it? Will I make it available online? I tend personally to turn my transcriptions over to the local genealogy society or to a local library where more people will have access to them. But you know, the work is never done. And before you know it, those Keeners will be pulling on their rubber boots and heading out to the still wet ground of yet another graveyard. Because the work of recording cemeteries is never finished. There are so many that need to be done yet, and after a certain period of years, those that are going to need updating. I'm currently doing a series of cemeteries locally that were done 35 years ago, so conditions have changed a lot in that time. There are a lot of new tombstones that need to be added into it, but unfortunately there are also a lot of tombstones that are now missing or broken. And so you can incorporate the data of the previous transcription in your updated version of it all.
- [24:01]
A
Well, it sounds like interesting work and work that's really helping the communities of where these cemeteries are located and everyone who is listening. You have been listening to Robby Gore and he is an expert in this. He's written a terrific article. It's called Zen and the Art of Cemetery Transcription. You'll find it in the September and October 2025 issue of Family Tree magazine. So you can get out there and do this yourself. Robbie, it's always good to talk to you. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us.
- [24:32]
B
Thank you, Lisa. It was a pleasure to be here again.
- [24:37]
A
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'll have links to everything that we've talked about today on the show over at the Show Notes page. And you can find that@familytreemagazine.com podcast and there you'll also find a huge back catalog of past episodes full of topics that are going to help you in your genealogy research. And when you stop by the website, be sure to sign up for our free newsletter. That really is the perfect way to stay in touch with Family Tree magazine and and get all the latest and greatest news, plus the announcements of each and every new podcast episode. I'm Lisa Louise Cook and I hope that you'll come by and visit me at my website, genealogygems.com and there you will find the Genealogy Gems podcast and a link over to our Genealogy Gems YouTube channel. So until next time, have fun climbing your family tree. Sa.
- [26:03]
B
Sam.