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Family Tree Magazine Podcast
Reflecting on the World of Genealogy in 2025 – An Interview with Andrew Koch
00:27:34
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- [00:12]
A
Welcome to the Family Tree Magazine podcast. This is the show from America's number one genealogy magazine. I'm Lisa Louise Cook.
- [00:23]
B
As we close out the year, we are going to take a look back at the moments that shaped our pursuit of genealogy in 2025.
- [00:30]
C
Lisa?
- [00:31]
B
I'm Lisa Louise Cook. Joining me today is Andrew Cook, no relation, but a good friend. He's the editor of Family Tree magazine. He's here to share his expert perspective on the biggest genealogy news stories that have happened this year and what they mean for you, the family historian. So welcome back to the podcast. Andrew.
- [00:50]
C
Hey there, Lisa.
- [00:51]
B
Gosh, there has been a lot in 2025, and I would have to say a good place to start would be in the area of genetic genealogy and DNA. What kind of updates did we see this year?
- [01:03]
C
Looking back, we might think of this as the year of the DNA updates because it seems, you know, that these tests have been out for a long time and there's this question of, well, I took my test, now what? Well, the companies are answering with new tools and new algorithms that help you better understand your genetic ancestry and give you more ways to use your data. We often say that DNA itself doesn't change, but your results do because of that. And three of the major companies released or announced major updates to their ethnicity estimates. And there are usually they will periodically do that. Ancestry, for example, updates their results. Most fall, but this most falls. But this was really a, a sea change. Ancestry, for its part, called it their biggest ever update, adding or significantly updating more than 60 regions, almost all of them from Europe, in their ethnicity estimates, what they call origins now. And they also added several new journeys which they used to call genetic communities. And I think they were getting a lot of feedback from test takers. Why are my results changing so much from year to year? Again, my DNA shouldn't change. Why are my results. So they added this new kind of macro regions presentation result that attempts to create more consistency from year to year. So even if your subline, hey, last year it said I was from, you know, Munster, Ireland, this year it says I'm from Leicester. What's going on there? Well, you can still say, well, you're from Ireland. And that hasn't changed. It's just some of the nitty gritty may have changed. So that, I think, is the top line. And as we're recording this, that's been what a lot of people are talking about. Are the results more accurate than my old ones? Are they not? And sort of comparing the other tool that Ancestry released This year is called DNA Clusters, and this helps you visualize how your DNA matches are related to each other, which is important for triangulating shared ancestry. It's a bit more of an advanced kind of tool, and as such, it's behind that Pro Tools subscription option that they added a couple years ago. But it's similar to the tool that GEDmatch and MyHeritage have had for a while. So bringing more functionality to your ancestry results.
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B
Right. And of course, it makes sense because you don't just keep taking a test over and over again. So to have the products kind of focusing on what you do with those results results seems very smart and interesting. Pro Tools is for subscribers, so there's different levels of financial commitment to working with your DNA results. MyHeritage has been busy doing some things over there as well. Right.
- [03:36]
C
Yeah, it's especially interesting with MyHeritage. So they first released their test back in 2016, and as far as I know, they haven't released a major update to their ethnicity estimates since then. Well, that changed in February when they announced what they're calling version 2. Five of their ethnicity estimate. It nearly doubles the number of ethnicities that the site reports on. And the 2. 5 comes from feedback that they got from some genealogists that they released a 2.0, went back to the drawing board, reworked some things and then released it to the general public. And that's how we got 2. 5. So those are the two of the biggest companies really changing what your ethnicity estimates look like. Definitely worth looking at, especially if you haven't looked at your results in a while. A couple other things that MyHeritage has been up to, as you said, was ending their DNA upload. So for years you could test at ancestry free andme family tree DNA and upload those raw results to MyHeritage to take advantage of their tools as well. For free, in fact. Although you had to upgrade to get full. The full pantheon of tools. But now they've said they're not going to do that anymore. You have to test with MyHeritage to keep your day, your data in that ecosystem. So unless you happen to have uploaded them already, that won't apply to you anymore.
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B
Yeah, that was a big advantage that people could do that. Hopefully most people took advantage when they could.
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C
Exactly. I know I did. But yeah, it's. They. They were. They kind of did a soft launch of the cancellation, so I think people had a little bit of foreknowledge, but it was. It was a Little surprising to see that. And the other piece of news from MyHeritage that I think we're all still kind of wrapping our heads around is this announcement that they're going to go to whole genome sequencing for their tests. Unpacking that term is probably a conversation for another day. But the long and the short of it is they're going to be processing your data, your DNA, in a more comprehensive kind of way. And it's a little unclear as of yet what that's going to look like. On the results side, what new applications will your DNA have? Are they going to be more accurate? Are you just going to have more results? You know what that's going to mean. But that could potentially be a really big update, not just for myheritage, but for the industry.
- [05:50]
B
And they said they were not going to go back and redo tests. Am I correct? You would have to test again.
- [05:58]
C
Yeah. And they said that in the interim here before it's rolled out to everybody, if you buy a test today, for example, you may or may not get picked up for whole genome sequencing. So definitely still in flux.
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B
Yeah.
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C
But they did say they were going to keep their test at that same price point, which is great. That's, I think, a big barrier to some of this more detailed analysis is that it can get really costly.
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B
Yeah. And then 23andMe, they're also still in the game.
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C
Yes, they are still in the game. And I'm. I'm laughing and I'll get to why in a second. But they released a new version 7 or they announced they're going to release a new version 7 of their ancestry composition results. And that's the first time they've updated those since 2022. They haven't set a release date as of the time we're recording. And I laughed and it was kind of surprising because of what's been going on at 23andMe. The one story that we'll talk about today that kind of went beyond the genealogy sphere into sort of, you know, the corporate world, because 23andMe over the last couple years has been struggling financially. They had a big data breach that they've had to, you know, re envision their security. They took down some features. They've been facing lawsuits over their handling of it. And finally, back in March, they declared bankruptcy. So their future was in question, really, for most of the spring and the summer, until finally, after a couple false starts, they were bought by a group headed by their former CEO, their co founder. So they are in at least Appears now to be in, you know, their. Their final form here under new ownership, and they're still cranking along, but, you know, that's. That's sort of where 23andMe has been not necessarily making headlines for its DNA tools.
- [07:43]
B
Well, they. They do face a challenge that MyHeritage Ancestry does not, in that they are not as diversified. You know, ancestry and myheritage have so many other products and elements of their business, and that's gotta be very difficult when you don't need to test every year.
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C
Right, right. And I think they were really counting on some of the data that they compile from their users would go on to make these pharmaceutical discoveries and new drugs. And I don't know that that's panned out the way that they had hoped.
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B
Right.
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C
So there's. They're kind of facing multiple headwinds there.
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B
Yeah, we'll definitely have to keep an eye on that. And something else we can keep our eye on, which has kind of been in our face this year, I would say, is technology and particularly artificial intelligence, the role that's playing in genealogy. What are some of the updates that caught your eye?
- [08:34]
C
Yeah, the big highlight from 2024 was FamilySearch's new full text search function, which was really great. It took some of the massive archive of scanned microfilm images that FamilySearch has in its collection and makes it searchable by text for the first time. So they rolled out with, I think it was land and probate records and a couple other record groups that historically were really hard to get at. But the highlight from 2025 is that they've been continuing to expand the records that are included there. I don't think it would be outside of the realm of possibility to think that their goal is to have all of their unindexed records in there, you know, at some point. So if you check that tool out when it first came out in March 2024, and haven't looked at it since, it's worth going back, see what collections have been added. I know my colleague, Amanda Epperson, who's our elearning producer, was just telling me that she went in and found that FamilySearch had used this full text search tool on a record group that was specifically for the county that her dad's family comes from, where, you know, they had nothing. Like, it was very hard to reach. And so this is opening all kinds of doors.
- [09:48]
B
Well, and Andrew, the big news there there is that it's come out of beta, so it is integrated. We can now See it right there from the main menu, which I think you're right, signals the fact that it's eventually going to be comprehensive. Why not use it for all of the records? That would be an amazing boon to the records and the searching of the records over at FamilySearch.
- [10:08]
C
Yeah, and it gives it a little more stability too, I think. Sometimes when a beta tool's on a website, you're like, okay, this is cool, but is it going to stick around? And now it's here to stay. Which is great because it's. I've heard a lot of success stories and I had some myself with the site and the tool. And speaking of AI assisted record collections, another trend has been databases applying AI and OCR technology to newspaper collections and making not just the obituaries searchable, but birth, marriage and death announcements, gossip columns, news articles, anything that might mention a person by name. They're indexing this. And MyHeritage just finished up its version of that this year. It's called the Names and Stories Index. They finished their collection of US Newspapers, which come from their sister site, Old News, and they also added some French language papers more recently. And that represents the first time the tool's been used, as far as I know, on papers that aren't written in English.
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B
And Speaking of newspapers, HelloFind.com is back.
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C
It's back. And I actually heard about this for the first time on your Genealogy Gems podcast. I. That sort of broke the news for me and it was, it's, it was sad when that came down a couple years ago because it was a, a useful tool for searching across these sort of disparate newspaper collections, often at, you know, the state level or regional level, instead of having to search them all at once or all, you know, in their own search forms, all over them or all over. So it's back and it's free. Although the company does say it will probably introduce a paid subscription in time. But that's another great tool to have in your arsenal. And speaking of websites that are back again or have gotten a refresh, there are several. There are always, you know, updates to websites throughout the years. But 2025 saw quite a few and very important resources too, getting updates. The FamilySearch catalog chronicling America, the Atlas of Historical County Boundaries, WikiTree. And these are all websites that a lot of our listeners are going to be familiar with. I wouldn't say household names, but household names for genealogists, maybe. The other is the Irish National Archives. So if you have Irish ancestry, they just got A new portal as well.
- [12:27]
B
Yeah, I actually the guys from Elephine reached out to me when they went live, which was just a couple of weeks ago. And so probably by the time this podcast episode comes out, I'll have a video on my YouTube channel, an interview with them. And one of the really interesting things about that is what the AI tool is doing to their search. They gave the example that if you put in WW1 for World War I and you start searching their papers. Well, in 1918 they weren't calling it WW1.
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C
Right.
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B
Because there was no World War II. But the AI understands the modern day version of what you're saying, so that it goes and finds the equivalent of that and still can deliver you the results, which I just think is going to open up a whole nother world of discovery when it comes to newspapers.
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C
Yeah, absolutely. And that I think is so unique to their database too. I don't know that other search engines are doing that. So that really could come in handy.
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B
And then when we make those finds, we can put that into our software. And there have been updates in the software arena, hasn't there?
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C
Yes. So the Family Tree Maker software is one of the more popular programs and has been for a long time. They released their 2024 edition this year, so that had been in the works for a while. I remember they were taking pre orders for it at RootsTech 2024 and then it just came out this summer I think it was. But that new edition has faster load times, a more intuitive user interface, and this new connect workspace that centralizes the collaboration features that Family Tree Maker has as well as the data backup functionality that if you subscribe, you can back your data into their cloud service and even look at it, say from a phone or a tablet. So it creates a more kind of holistic experience. Because I think that's one drawback of desktop software is if you're on the go, you don't have time to whip out your laptop necessarily and open this proprietary kind of file. But yeah, if you have have an app that syncs with it, that could really be useful.
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B
It's a game changer.
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C
Yeah. And then two other programs too, funnily enough, both released their 11th edition. So RootsMagic 11 came out earlier this year as well as Mac Family Tree, which as the name would imply is only available for Macs. But another kind of veteran program that's getting some love still.
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B
Stay right there.
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A
We've got more coming up right after this. The air is getting crisp and for many of us. That means a little extra time to dive into our family history. As genealogists, we spend years building out family trees. But what if you could do more than just connect the dots? What if you could bring those names on your tree to life? This is where Newspapers.com comes in. Imagine reading your great great grandparents wedding announcement, finding an article about your ancestors business, or even seeing a photograph of the house where your Grandma grew up. Newspapers.com is an incredible resource for anyone passionate about genealogy. With more than 29,000 historical newspapers, you can search for your family's names, their hometowns, or important dates and discover the small personal details that transform a name on a page and into a real person with a real story. And with the Holidays approaching, a Newspapers.com gift subscription is the perfect present for the family historian in your life. It's a gift of discovery, of connection, and of countless untold stories waiting to be found. Just head over to newspapers.com familytreemagazine to learn more and purchase a subscription for someone special. Special. That's newspapers.com familytreemagazine. Your favorite genealogist will thank you.
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B
And now back to our conversation. AI has been moving into other areas as well. Talk about in general, kind of what, what you've been seeing in terms of the impact that you are impressed by or concerned about. I don't know, whichever. When it comes to AI and genealogy.
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C
Yeah. I'm actually working on an article for our January February issue about AI and genealogy. And one thing that strikes me, we're all treating AI like it's a new thing. And it's not necessarily. We've been using some forms of artificial intelligence for years. Record hints, DNA matches, autocorrect on your phone. That's all. Those are all forms of AI, depending on how you define it. What's really grabbing people's attention are these chatbots, the generative AI. So what can I ask ChatGPT to do for me for my genealogy? And I think moving into 2026, that's one thing we're going to see are more applications coming to light as people use the program more, as they use it for more things. The big caveat I've heard is you should treat a chatbot like it's a pretty good research assistant, not a primary source. You can ask it to organize data, to sort data, to transcribe or extract information, but expecting it to do something, generate something new is more hit. Hit or miss.
- [17:43]
B
Absolutely. Because it's the conversation that encourages you to talk with it and try to explore ideas. But you're absolutely right. The TAs that it can accomplish are phenomenal. But we noticed this even over at the full text search at FamilySearch that you start interacting with the AI assistant still in beta. It often doesn't know what it's talking about. But that's all I'm sure going to improve very quickly.
- [18:06]
C
Yeah, yeah. And a lot of different companies are in the game now. Microsoft has a version, Google has a version. OpenAI is the company that backs ChatGPT. Claude is another one. So sort of an arms race of who can get the best tool and become, if I may, the Google of an AI chatbot. You know, that becomes that. Go to Resource and it's going to be interesting.
- [18:28]
B
I'd be interested to know what you think. If you think that chatbots will remain at the forefront or do they eventually fade away because of the integration of their capabilities into more niche tools, like in the sphere of genealogy?
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C
I certainly think it will. It's certainly supplanting search engines. I think that you see Google's really heavily investing in the AI summary search results. So that is going to change the way people look for information, for better or for worse. But I think you make a good point. It seems like every website or app has some AI something now. And so we'll eventually, we won't go to ChatGPT for that anymore because FamilySearch's AI assistant is smart enough and useful enough to kind of do what we would have gone the Chat GPT for. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.
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B
Anything else we should be looking for in the genealogy industry?
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C
Yeah, we've mentioned full text search a couple times. I think that's still really kind of at the forefront of making records more accessible. And I think that's going to continue as more records are added to that tool as companies like Ancestry and myheritage expand those subject or those name indexes that I was talking about earlier, that's going to make records that you used to have to, you know, either, you know, scroll through microfilm for or basically do that, but in your Internet browser, clicking and clicking and clicking as you look for pages in records that aren't indexed yet. I think that's going to lower the barrier of entry there and help people make more kind of brick wall busting finds, which is really great. We talked a lot today about DNA too. I think we're going to see more powerful DNA tools. I'm really interested to see what happens with this whole genome sequencing from MyHeritage. Another development that's been on the horizon for a while is artifact testing. Sending in a stamp or an envelope that your ancestor licked instead of relying on a saliva sample or a spit collect collection from a living person. Being able to do that in a way that most people can afford.
- [20:29]
B
I've heard a lot of people ask for that over the years. And I remember when the founder of MyHeritage talked about his experiences in doing that and he a couple of years ago, I think we were in Oslo.
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C
And he definitely teased that and that raised a lot of eyebrows. I was there too in that room. It was like, really? So who knows what the next year will hold? But that's right. Sometimes when I tell people I'm the editor of a genealogy magazine, they look at me funny. Like, genealogy is about dead people, what news is there? And I'm always. The industry never ceases to surprise me what comes up. And it's very much a living, breathing sort of ecosystem of tools and strategies.
- [21:09]
B
And it's a much more automated system than it was even just a couple of years ago. I mean, I imagine for the new person to genealogy they could go onto Ancestry or myheritage and feel like, oh my gosh, it's all being done for me. I can't even get to the hints as fast as they're coming to me. What do you think the impact of that automation is going to be on it in the next five to 10 years? Is it just done for you?
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C
That struck us too is if somebody's logging on to Ancestry for the first time today. They haven't been doing genealogy for decades. They haven't filled out a family tree by hand. They're just kind of going for it for the first time. It becomes a conversation about how to manage the data that you are seeing instead of finding the data yourself.
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B
That's right.
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C
It's more about assessing record hints than it is identifying record sets, comparing, you know, here's an index that tells me where I might need to go. And analyzing a record yourself, it's really more of a data retrieval and analysis question, less of a finding a fact finding mission. Now that doesn't mean of course that, I mean automation is great until it gives you information that isn't correct, hooks you up to the wrong ancestor. And so there's definitely needs to be that discernment. But yeah, it definitely is changing the face of genealogy and how much you can get done. Like what? Or realistic, you could take your, your ancestry.com family tree back 200 years farther than somebody could have 20 years ago, let alone, you know, beyond that. So it's, yeah, it's exciting and also a little bit scary. But I think just like anything else, we'll learn what these tools can do well and what we need to guardrails we need to put on them.
- [22:55]
B
It's really turning the tables by having genealogy be self directed versus we are directed by the technology that's bringing the information to us, both in genealogy and just in general information and dealing with chatbots. And I wonder because so many of us got so addicted by the thrill of the discovery and the fact that we know we tracked it down and found it. And that dynamic's changing too. So it'll be interesting to see they may open all new avenues or be able to let us go back even further. 2026 is that there's a lot to look forward to. I'm looking forward to some things because there's going to be some changes for me and for Family Tree Magazine podcast. And I'm actually going to be going into a new project that I'm working on. And you and I have been talking about this offline, but letting our listeners know that this will be my last month here at Family Tree magazine and doing this show. But I, like I said, do have a project coming up in 2026. I'm excited to launch. I've been toying with this idea for about two years, so I would encourage anybody listening if you're interested and would like to see what that looks like as it comes online, um, go over to genealogygems.com and sign up for my free email newsletter. That's where we're going to be announcing it. But I think it's going to, in a way, dovetail with what we've just been talking about, which is the fact that the dynamics of genealogy, our, our experience in it is changing. And I think this, I'm hoping that what I'm going to be bringing is going to be something that's going to bring a new, enriching element to it that people will be excited about. So we'll see. But I've been around here a long time, Andrew.
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C
Yeah. And you know, we're, I'm so excited for your new project. And you know, I, I just want to say, you know, on behalf of myself and the editors and of all of our listeners that, you know, we've, we've really loved hearing from you these last 17. 17 years.
- [24:56]
B
17 years.
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C
You just, you've just brought such passion and care and expertise and warmth to the podcast. And, you know, we can only hope to carry that forward, you know, moving on. So thank you. And we're so excited to see what comes next and to keep working with you in other ways. And, you know, it's an exciting new, new era here for the podcast. I should add, too, that in addition to, we've historically done our podcast as audio only, but starting in January, we'll also be doing a video version of the podcast. So that's another way that people can see and interact with us. We'll be uploading episodes to YouTube, of course, so you can check us out there if you want something a little more engaging. And you can see. See our pretty faces each. Each and every month.
- [25:41]
B
I'm happy to hear that because that is the. The future. The future's already here. And doing that with genealogy gems and it. It's a. It's a big leap to take, but I think that it's a way to reach people wherever they are. And my gosh, people are on YouTube a lot.
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C
Well, yeah, absolutely. It's one of the platforms that cuts across age and gender and, you know, life path. Everyone's on YouTube.
- [26:03]
B
And so will our listeners and now viewers be seeing you? Will you be taking the lead on the podcast each month?
- [26:10]
C
I will, yes. And we've got some exciting plans coming down the pike here for the first half of 2026, and I look forward to seeing and hearing from everyone. Got some big shoes to fill, some big headphones to fill, but there you go. You know, I'm excited. It'll be a. It'll be a fun challenge and a fun journey.
- [26:29]
B
It will be. Well, that's one thing about genealogy. It is always evolving, and it's fascinating, it's creative, it's intellectually stimulating. And I have just really, really enjoyed doing this show for the last 17 years and so appreciate being part of the Family Tree magazine family and continue to do so. People will see my column, Lisa's Picks, in the. In the magazine, and I'll be cheering you guys on and looking forward to. I mean, I'd love to come on the podcast and let folks know about our new project in 2026. So maybe we'll have to get back together again.
- [27:03]
C
Definitely.
- [27:04]
B
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great recap. You know, we've covered a lot of ground. Everybody listening can go and check the show notes for this episode. Familytreemagazine. Com Podcast. And as always, so good to talk to you, Andrew. Thank you so much. And thank you for 17 wonderful years.
- [27:22]
C
Thank you, Lisa.