Fantasy Players Whose ADP Gives The Ick 😬 + Inside Rainn Wilson’s League Drama

Summary

Fantasy Focus Football: “Fantasy Players Whose ADP Gives The Ick 😬 + Inside Rainn Wilson’s League Drama” (August 21, 2025)

Overview

This episode centers on two main themes:

1. Fantasy football players whose Average Draft Position (ADP) triggers warning signs—the “ick” factor—according to ESPN fantasy experts.
2. An entertaining deep dive into the celebrity-packed Rainn Wilson Invitational fantasy league, featuring in-studio guest Desmond Borges sharing insider stories, drama, and Hollywood-grade fantasy football antics.

The episode blends actionable fantasy advice, vivid personal anecdotes, and playful banter, making it both instructive and highly entertaining.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Players with “Icky” ADPs

Hosts: Liz Loza & David Presley
([01:53]–[05:49])

Saquon Barkley (RB, Philadelphia Eagles)

• Concerns: Historic workload last year (484 touches); statistical regression is almost inevitable.
• Stat Insight: Every RB in the last decade with 300+ carries and 20+ receptions regressed the following year in yards per carry, yards per touch, and fantasy points per game.
• Quote:
  • “Saquon Barkley is going third overall here. He is not going to be able to copy and paste his 2024 production in 2025.” — Liz Loza ([02:00])
• Takeaway: Barkley's ADP is “his peak value”—too expensive given the risk.

Ladd McConkey (WR, Los Angeles Chargers)

• Concerns: College durability issues linger; offense expected to shift even more run-heavy under Jim Harbaugh.
• Target Competition: Keenan Allen returns, likely to eat into WR targets.
• Quote:
  • "[McConkey] right now is the 13th wide receiver off the board in the fourth round. That is way too high." — Liz Loza ([04:17])

Joe Burrow (QB, Cincinnati Bengals)

• Concerns: Elite passing offense, but major limiting factor—lack of rushing upside as compared to the other top QBs.
• Quote:
  • “When you look at that first tier of quarterbacks...they all have something in common...they rush. Joe Burrow was the QB22 in rush attempts last year.” — Liz Loza ([04:50])
• Draft Approach: Wait for a QB unless one of the “Big Four” (Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Jaden Daniels, Jalen Hurts) falls; better value to be found elsewhere in the fourth round.

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2. The Rainn Wilson Invitational: Inside a Hollywood Fantasy League

Guest: Desmond Borges, co-commissioner
([07:42]–[25:36])

League Origin and Dynamics

• Star Power: Founded by Rainn Wilson (The Office), co-commissioned by Borges. Includes personalities like John Cusack, chess grandmaster Danny Rensch, and Rhett Miller.
• Quote:
  • “The face of the league is the man, the myth, the legend himself, Mr. Rainn Wilson. And I am the muscle. Technically, we're co-commish..." — Desmond Borges ([08:27])
• Fun Fact: League was born while filming "Utopia"—sound department member suggested forming a league, leading to its celebrity roster.

League Drama and Personalities

• Trash Talk & Pressure: Rainn and other league mates are prolific trash talkers, especially at draft time and on the waiver wire.
• Quote:
  • “[Rainn Wilson is] not only just a brilliant human, but he's also, like, really kind and compassionate and really funny, blah, blah, blah. Also the best trash talker in our league, without a doubt.” — Desmond Borges ([09:25])
• Chess Grandmaster Edge: Danny Rensch deploys next-level game theory; likened to outmaneuvering rivals with chess tactics.
• Hollywood Excuses: Most outlandish? Rainn once missed draft night because he was "podcasting inside a helicopter overlooking the Northern Lights." ([14:40])

Liz Loza: Resident Fantasy Pro

• League Reaction: Other league members are “scared” and hyper-aware of Liz’s moves due to her analyst status—often bid up her nominations.

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3. Fantasy Rapid-Fire: Comping Movie Characters to Players

([19:47]–[24:25])

• Jerry Maguire (“You had me at hello”) — Jameer Gibbs:
  • “Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down... Jameer Gibbs, baby.” — Desmond Borges ([20:46])
• Miranda Priestley (“The Devil Wears Prada”) — Derrick Henry:
  • “Can only be fit for a king. Derrick Henry.” — Desmond Borges ([22:00])
• Scar (“The Lion King”) — Aaron Rodgers:
  • “He’ll look you in the eye, grab you by the neck... then let you go and let you fall.” — Desmond Borges ([22:37])
• Baby from “Dirty Dancing” — Chase Brown:
  • “Nobody puts Chase Brown in a corner. I think he has top five RB upside.” — Desmond Borges ([23:36])

Notable Banter

• Patrick Swayze Connection:
  • “Do you know that I took dance lessons with Patrick Swayze...?” — Desmond Borges ([23:16])
• Chase Brown Hype: Highest snap share after Week 10 last season (86%), top-five RB upside.

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4. Fantasy Value Deep Dives

Rome Odunze (WR, Chicago) – Year 2 Breakout?
([16:03]–[16:57])

• Borges: “Without a doubt.” Confident in improvement under new OC Ben Johnson; sees Caleb Williams targeting Odunze early and often.
• Both agree: DJ Moore may be “slept on” while Odunze is overhyped.

QB Debate: Caleb Williams vs. JJ McCarthy (Fantasy Perspective)

• Borges: Favors J.J. McCarthy—“reverse jinx,” but believes in McCarthy’s fantasy prospects over Caleb Williams ([17:26]).

Matthew Golden (WR, Green Bay Packers)
([17:38]–[18:14])

• Borges: Selling. Not convinced LaFleur’s offense will allow a breakout; sees equal target distribution stifling WR explosion.

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5. Rookie Watch: Emeka Egbuka

([27:19]–[28:41])

• Liz Loza recommends Egbuka as a late-round draft steal (13th–14th round), especially given Chris Godwin’s health issues.
• “Egbuka was arguably the most nuanced route runner in this year's rookie receiver class...he is available in the 13th to 14th rounds of most fantasy drafts. That is an incredible opportunity for investment.” — Liz Loza ([28:29])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | [02:00] | Liz Loza | “Saquon Barkley is going third overall here. He is not going to be able to copy and paste his 2024 production in 2025.” | | [04:17] | Liz Loza | “Ladd right now is the 13th wide receiver off the board in the fourth round. That is way too high.” | | [04:50] | Liz Loza | “When you look at that first tier of quarterbacks...they all have something in common...they rush. Joe Burrow was the QB22 in rush attempts last year.” | | [09:25] | Desmond Borges | “[Rainn Wilson is] not only just a brilliant human, but he's also, like, really kind and compassionate and really funny, blah, blah, blah. Also the best trash talker in our league, without a doubt.” | | [14:40] | Desmond Borges | “He was like, oh, I'm doing a podcast inside of a helicopter overlooking the northern lights. And I was like, of course you are, dude.” | | [20:46] | Desmond Borges | “Never gonna give Never gonna give Give you up. Jameer Gibbs, baby.” | | [22:00] | Desmond Borges | “What's only fit for a queen can only be fit for a king. Derrick Henry.” | | [22:37] | Desmond Borges | “Aaron Rodgers. He'll look you in the eye, grab you by your, the drop of the neck. Right on ayahuasca trip...and then let you go.” | | [23:36] | Desmond Borges | “Nobody puts Chase Brown in a corner...I think he has top five RB upside.” | | [28:29] | Liz Loza | “That is an incredible opportunity for investment in a player who's ceiling and savvy is about to be on full display.” (on Emeka Egbuka) |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:53] “Ick” Factor ADP Picks Begin (Saquon Barkley, Ladd McConkey, Joe Burrow)
• [07:42] Desmond Borges Joins – Inside the Rainn Wilson Invitational League
• [14:40] Hollywood Excuses for Missing Drafts (Rainn’s helicopter podcast)
• [16:03] Rapid-Fire: Rome Odunze, DJ Moore, and Fantasy QB Debate
• [19:47] Fantasy/Pop Culture Comp Game
• [23:36] Chase Brown Hype + Dirty Dancing Story
• [27:19] Rookie Highlight: Emeka Egbuka

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Final Takeaways & Tone

• Value over Hype: Love the player, hate the ADP. Be wary of chasing last year's stats at inflated prices.
• Celebrity League Drama: Even Hollywood stars make drafting excuses and heap peer pressure on their commish!
• Rookies & Sleepers: Late-round values like Egbuka and overlooked keepers like Chase Brown can swing a season.
• Entertainment & Camaraderie: The Rainn Wilson Invitational truly lives up to its name—with plenty of talent, humor, and heart.

End note:
“May your facts be solid, your feelings be right, and your bust be someone else's problem.” — Liz Loza ([28:47])

Transcript

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[Desmond Borges]

So you can lose more sweat and raise your game. Gatorade, is it in you?

[Liz Loza]

Welcome to Facts vs Feelings. I'm Liz Loza and today's fact is that sometimes there is just no escaping the ick. You probably know me, but you may not yet know my producer. It's Mr. David Presley. Hi, Dave.

[David Presley]

Hey, Liz. It's good to see you in Bristol, Connecticut. You brought the sunshine with you. I'm so happy.

[Liz Loza]

Thank you so much. Look at you being nice to me. Because now that we're in close proximity, you can't be as you have to like look me in the eye after you're mean to me.

[David Presley]

I know, it's pretty bad. I mean, it's pretty bad. Yeah, it's pretty bad. I gotta behave myself, otherwise I know what I'm gonna be in for. So, yeah, you know, I'm gonna be super happy today. Super positive.

[Liz Loza]

Dave, what's your ick?

[David Presley]

Ooh, my ick. I have two icks. One ick. People biting their nails. Don't like it. Yucky hands. Yeah, it's a weird one.

[Liz Loza]

Dave Presley has a hand kink. He's not aware, but now I know. Do you. Do you like Cajun shrimp? That's my favorite now.

[David Presley]

Oh, it is okay. Yeah, it's not too bad. You know, I'm told you I'm being nice. I also like there's a name for this, but it's like people that like when they eat or like I have a. I have a pit bull for a dog and he's smacks his tongue around all the time. It drives me nuts.

[Liz Loza]

So you don't like messy eaters or like you've got like a ASMR thing?

[David Presley]

Yeah, Loud, noisy, smacking the lips.

[Liz Loza]

I feel like I think the word is mesothelioma, but I know that that's a cancer.

[David Presley]

I think. Roll a disclaimer. Fantasy football is a game of inches, luck and irrational confidence. Proceed with caution, trust your gut. And remember, ADP is a suggestion, not a command Muck. Draft's a fantasy. Your real draft is war. And just because you heard it on this show doesn't mean you should do it. If all goes wrong, just say your account was hacked. Alright, Liz, so this week we're talking about three players whose ADP gives you.

[Liz Loza]

The I. Yeah, I want to have a conversation about value. It's not that I don't think these players are talented or that they won't Post numbers. It's just that I think they are probably being drafted at their peak value. This first one is a big name, especially after what he did last year. I know people aren't gonna like it, so here's your trigger warning, David. Tell them who it is.

[David Presley]

It's Saquon Buckley, people.

[Liz Loza]

He had an absolutely historic, historic 2024. He also touched the ball a historic number of times. 484 total touches, including the postseason. He's going to regress, guys. And not just because I think so, but because I've gone and done the research over the past decade. I looked up every single running back who went over 300 carries and 20 receptions and every single one of them, 100% of them, suffered a regression in yards per carry, yards per touch and fantasy points per game. Now, again, that doesn't mean they're going to necessarily bust, but right now Saquon Barkley is going third overall here. He is not going to be able to copy and paste his 2024 production in 2025.

[David Presley]

I think he's a reach, but he's a number one fantasy player in 2024 last year.

[Liz Loza]

We're in a new year, I guess.

[David Presley]

I guess. I mean, hey, at Lizloza on X and Instagram, hit her up. Let her know your thoughts because that one, that one's going to have some feedback. I think we do do it spicy. Second one. Speaking of spicy, he had a spicy rookie season last year. Lad McConkey. I love him. I mean, dude, dude was catching passes last year. Don't like him at this ADP though, do you?

[Liz Loza]

I love his versatility. An excellent Z receiver. But if you notice in college he did have durability concerns both in 2022 and in 2023. I don't love that. There might be a durability issue popping up at some point in his pro career, but also I'm worried about his Vol is part of this Jim Harbaugh inspired offense that likes to run the ball. Justin Herbert was in the bottom five in terms of in terms of pass attempts last year. I think that given the addition of Omarion Hampton, we're going to see the Bolts really lean on the run. And also, oh, there's an old face coming back. That's right. Keenan Allen is back from Chicago, moving west again to Los Angeles. Maybe he didn't have the explosiveness or speed that he did last year as he did in the beginning of his career, but he also did garner 120 targets. He's not there to just Be a decoy. I think he's going to eat into lads production. And also Ladd right now is the 13th wide receiver off the board in the fourth round. That is way too high. There are other better options available there.

[David Presley]

Yeah, no, it's a great point.

[Desmond Borges]

It's great.

[David Presley]

A great point. Speaking of low volume, this next guy is the opposite of low volume. Joe Burrow slinging the football last year. But ADP wise, you're not trusting him.

[Liz Loza]

Nobody doesn't love Joey B. Myself included. But when you look at that first tier of quarterbacks, they all have something in common. When you look at Lamar and Josh Allen and Jaden Daniels and Jalen hurts, they rush. And then you have Joe Burrow who was the QB 22 in rush attempts last year. He's a prolific passer, he has incredible weapons, he has a horrible defense. He's going to keep the ball in the air. But I don't want him in the fourth round. I don't want a quarterback in the fourth round. Unless one of those big four guys that you just mentioned that we just talked about slides to me. I'd rather draft in that same area. Oh, the running back attached to Joe Burrow, Chase Brown or if I want to invest in an island position, give me George Kittle who's going around the same spot and then I will wait later to get maybe Bo Nix or you know, I love a red flag player Kyler Murray in the 10th round.

[David Presley]

Yeah, I mean I do. I agree with you. More value in a round there than Joe Burrow. I mean I'm waiting on QB this year. Sneaking just like Justin Fields. But we, we can stay back.

[Liz Loza]

Speaking of spicy, I have to bring it spicy when it comes to New England because it is bland af here.

[David Presley]

Wow. @ Lizloza if you want those people.

[Liz Loza]

From New England and Instagram. All right, coming up next, we are keeping it spicy with a very special guest in studio.

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[Liz Loza]

I promised that we would have our first in studio guest and I am delivering with one Desmond Borges. What's up, Connecticut resident making the drive up to Bristol.

[Desmond Borges]

Love it.

[Liz Loza]

Did you like it? Was it bucolic? It is kind of pretty here.

[Desmond Borges]

It's gorgeous. It's idyllic. You know, it's a great time of year. It's green everywhere.

[Liz Loza]

I mean, the humidity, though. I'm schwitzing.

[Desmond Borges]

You're right. But I, you know, I like that. I like to get the impurities out, especially as I'm battling through different drafts.

[Liz Loza]

You know, Connecticut, a state of detox.

[Desmond Borges]

That's right.

[Liz Loza]

I love it. So Des and I met because we are in a league together. But you are actually the commissioner of the league, which is not just an average league. Do you want to tell everyone about this particular?

[Desmond Borges]

Yeah. So the league's called the Rainn Wilson Invitational. If you can't tell, the face of the league is the man, the myth, the legend himself, Mr. Rainn Wilson. And I am the muscle. Technically, we're co commish, but I like to support.

[Liz Loza]

Well, send very thoughtful emails.

[Desmond Borges]

I will say I want to make it feel legit for everybody that's around. Everyone who's been in our league. We'll get to, you know, some of the highlights of who's in there have been playing for a really long time. And I don't want it to feel just like a amateur home league. I want it to feel, you know, like it's no Scott Fishbowl, but it's Rain and myself had been jonesing to do to be a part of an auction league for so long. So when we were shooting Utopia Gillian Flynn's Utopia.

[Liz Loza]

Is that how you met Rain?

[Desmond Borges]

That's how we met.

[Liz Loza]

Oh, tell me that story.

[Desmond Borges]

Oh. So our very first table read. We're walking up to the building, and it's Rainn Wilson. I'm a huge office fan, but I don't want to geek out in front of him. But Dwight schrute is top 10. One of my favorite comedic television characters of all time. And the. The. He lives up to it. He's not only just a brilliant human, but he's also, like, really kind and compassionate and really funny, blah, blah, blah.

[Liz Loza]

Also the best trash talker in our.

[Desmond Borges]

League, without a doubt. Okay, but so we were walking up to the building, and John Cusack rides up on his moped. And so all of a sudden. Yeah, so it's like, rain. It's rain. And as a kid from the 80s, there's Mr. Chicago himself, John Cusack. So I let both of them go in first, say, hi. I've put on 40 pounds for this role. I have, like, two pounds of beard on my face. My hair's all wild, and so, like, I'm just kind of, like, going with the flow. And then we sit down, and my name's on a card right here. Reigns is next to me. John's is next to him. And we start doing the table read. And I got the first laugh of the table read, and Rain just leaned over to me. He goes, this is gonna be real good, isn't it? And, like, that was it. And then we were just on set, and one of the. One of the guys in the sound department was like, hey, we're gonna put a utopia fantasy football league together. Do you want to do it? And Rain, when I were like, yeah, let's go. And then. So we did that. And then, unfortunately, Amazon made a foolish mistake and didn't pick us up for the next season. And Rain and I had become, like, such good buddies that he, like, called me up two days. Two days before the season started five years ago now, Liz, because we're going into our fifth season of the Rainn Wilson Invitational. And he was like, hey, I really want to do that auction league that we were talking about. How many can you get? And can we draft in two nights? And I said, I think I can get five. He was like, I think I can get five. And we'll have to find one more. And I was like, okay. And so we did it. We came back, and then all of a sudden, the one more that we were looking for ended up being Liz Loza.

[Liz Loza]

That's Right. A lot of big personalities in this league.

[Desmond Borges]

Right? Right.

[Liz Loza]

Who as the commish, do you think is the biggest pain in the ass?

[Desmond Borges]

Okay, so. Right. First off, I know we want good tv. Everyone in the league is actually really fun to participate in, but we're also really good at giving each other the shit all the time. So Rain and Al, anything that goes down on the waiver wire during the draft, a trade that happens. They come at me sometimes in group text. So hot. But they're so funny about it. And then I'm thinking, oh, man, did. Did I mess up? Like, did I just pull. Did I not, like, verify that trade? Like, is that it seemed equal to me to consenting adults? They seem really good with about it, you know, like, let's go. And then I'll find out that they're joking about it.

[Liz Loza]

Right.

[Desmond Borges]

So there's that. But then we also have a chess master in our league, Danny Wrench, and this dude operates at a different level. If you've met anybody who plays chess professionally, you would know that they are outside the box.

[Liz Loza]

Like, he's legitimately a chess master.

[Desmond Borges]

Legitimately.

[Liz Loza]

I want people to understand you're not being hyperbolic.

[Desmond Borges]

He is, but he'll do a move. He'll ask me the same question every year, and then does this big blockbuster move. It's a trade or something. And every time he does it, a lot of people are like, what the hell is going on?

[Liz Loza]

And.

[Desmond Borges]

And in the back of my mind, I'm like, ah, he just did Rook to Queen 7. And that's usually what happens. And for those of you who don't know chess, Rook to Queen 7 is the move that happens before they say, finish him on Mortal Kombat. Like, he sets you up and then he's going to knock you right down. And so, like I would say between the three of them, they give. They. They give me some work behind the scenes.

[Liz Loza]

Do you think that they come after me? I want your opinion on this because I have my own. Do you think they come after me a little bit harder since I'm a professional fantasy analyst? Or do you think they are pretty scared of me?

[Desmond Borges]

I think for the most part, the league is very aware whenever you do anything. You know, it's funny, I heard you last night during the draft talk about zigging and zagging, and that's because we build rosters very similarly. It's not just the Chicago thing either, but I feel like we look for similar types of players, players, trends. Yes, right. People who are multi. Hyphenated who are going to give us buck. Right. So I'll zig when everyone else is zagging or the inverse. And then all of a sudden Loza will. Will nominate somebody and then start bidding high on them. And it wasn't necessarily someone that I had highlighted on my list. And so my ears perk up and everyone will get, like, sort of intimidated by it.

[Liz Loza]

And then I'm like, well, and then I trap them.

[Desmond Borges]

Yeah. And I'm all the men. If Liz wants them, then I want them. And so I start bidding up, and before you know it, like, I'm. You and I are unfortunately going toe to toe on somebody that ends up being a fantastic player. And I would say probably seven times out of 10, you end up outbidding me for them. But there have been a few times where I've outbid you.

[Liz Loza]

Well, I do start aggressive. I tend to want to save all my money. And then I'm like, oh, no. I have two players, some moves, but I did get Bo Nicks for five bucks last year, so I was pretty happy with that.

[Desmond Borges]

That's going to be a good keeper for you.

[Liz Loza]

What has been the craziest, very Hollywood excuse that someone has given you to either change draft order, say they can't make it, that they missed a trade, weren't able to set their lineup? What was the best?

[Desmond Borges]

No, it was two years ago, right, when Rain was getting the podcast, like, really Soul Boom was really booming. The book had just come out. Things were. Things were starting and progressing very well, very quickly for him. And we had already set the draft date. And, you know, it's hard when you're talking with people who have lives, right. And we have a date set. And he's like, dude, you're gonna hate me. I can't draft that night, and I gotta be there for it. I was like, why? What are you doing? He was like, oh, I'm doing a podcast inside of a helicopter overlooking the northern lights. And I was like, of course you are, dude. Of course you are. It's like the most, like, beautiful. And of course, I'm not gonna say no. You. That's like, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity. So then I had to go back and rework with a couple of people. Rhett Miller, who's also on our league, who's the lead singer of the old 97s. We had his birthdays usually around the time when we draft. So we try to be really conscious to not draft on his actual birthday so that he can experience, you know, the goodness of.

[Liz Loza]

Of a birthday.

[Desmond Borges]

Of a birthday. But I think we had to do it on his birthday that night. And thank you. Thank you.

[Liz Loza]

Rhett, I want to talk some fantasy football with you because while that may not be your profession, I do think you have a great eye, especially since you said that maybe you model some of your picks after my own analysis. So that's never going to stop me. Romo Dunes A Year two Breakout Are you buying?

[Desmond Borges]

Without a doubt.

[Liz Loza]

Okay, me too.

[Desmond Borges]

I'm all in on the Ben Johnson effect. It can't get worse than it was for Caleb Williams and the Bears offense last year. Even if it's because as Chicago Bears fans we know to tread lightly, right? We went through smokin Jay Cutler years. We watched them fire Lovey Smith after a 106 season where they went to the playoffs. I'm still mystified by that decision. Even if they got 25% better. I think a lot of that gets funneled through Rome. You could see last year that Caleb, his first touchdown pass was to Rome. He was looking for Rome. He wants Rome to be his guy. And like no salt on DJ Moore. DJ Moore is going to get his touches because the guy's electrifying.

[Liz Loza]

But not in the red area.

[Desmond Borges]

No. But I also feel like he's being slept on this year. Everyone that I know is like, oh, I don't know how I feel about DJ Moore. I'm like, you don't know how you feel about 1200 yards and probably 10 touchdowns and I don't know, close to 100 catches.

[Liz Loza]

So my colleague Mike Clay made this interesting point about how everyone is letting DJ Moore fall because they want Rome. Because we're all really wanting to manifest this second year breakout with Ben Johnson coming to town for Roma. Dunes a that people are. I don't really. I might take DJ Moore like a round or two earlier. Then I don't get to have Rome because you don't want to double up too much, especially in a Chicago offense. Caleb Williams or JJ McCarthy? Which of these NFC north for fantasy purposes quarterbacks are you more interested in?

[Desmond Borges]

I'm going to do a reverse jinx here, but I also do really think it's true. It's going to be J.J. i have.

[Liz Loza]

To talk about the Green Bay Packers. Matthew Golden. Buying, selling.

[Desmond Borges]

I'm selling. I just don't. I. I don't. Matt LaFleur hasn't shown it to me yet that he wants his wide receivers to pop off. That doesn't seem to be. I know he comes from that tree with Sean McVeigh.

[Liz Loza]

Right.

[Desmond Borges]

So like, you would think it, he. He would be that he would follow that trend. But I think what's been successful for them is sort of equal distribution and taking what the defense normally gives them. And I think Jordan Love is actually very good at distributing the ball that way. So I think. I think Matthew Golden's going to have an okay year, but I don't think it's going to be like, oh, he was the one that got away. If I don't get him in a draft, I'm not losing.

[Liz Loza]

You're not upset about it. He is being drafted just around like the wide receiver 40 space between Chris Godwin, who continues to fall given all of the injury concerns, and right below Stefan Diggs, who continues to rise because he does look like he still has it and he's attached to Drake May, who we're expecting will continue to break out in his sophomore season. But I think that what makes Matthew golden so interesting and appealing is that he is perhaps the most versatile receiver on the packers squad. And so he can move to. He can be deployed from numerous levels of the field, which I think might help him in terms of target volume and the connection with Jordan Love. I want to know what your spiciest fantasy hot take is for the 2025 season.

[Desmond Borges]

The spiciest fantasy hot take. Aaron Rodgers is going to keep his current trend of the past few years going. I don't think he's going to get injured, but he will get another head Coach fired and Mr. Mike Tomlin, well.

[Liz Loza]

That would be ending one heck of a tenure for Tomlin in Pittsburgh. But because Aaron Rodgers is so bad again, he's going to get Tomlin fired.

[Desmond Borges]

No, it's not about him being bad. It's just the fact that he has to be the it all the time. Right. And the thing is, this is Mike Tomlin's team and I think there's going to be some clashing going on and I actually think it'll be the best thing ever for Mike Tomlin because I don't think the way Pittsburgh, even though they're like one of the most storied NFL franchises, I think his time there is done. I think it's time for him to move on and move on to another team and go win a couple of chips somewhere else. But it's not going to be with. It's not going to be with Rogers.

[Liz Loza]

Do you want to play a game?

[Desmond Borges]

Of course.

[Liz Loza]

Wonderful. Because you are such a prolific working actor, I wanted to take iconic stars of Stage and screen in a role that has captured the zeitgeist and then comp that character to a fantasy player.

[Desmond Borges]

Oh, I like this.

[Liz Loza]

Okay. Okay, so first up, who is the Jerry Maguire of this year's available fantasy options?

[Desmond Borges]

Hmm. Jerry Maguire's, like most famous line is, you had me at hello.

[Liz Loza]

Sure is. Oh, my gosh. The way he melted me. Oh, still clinging.

[Desmond Borges]

So who had me at hello? Oh, never mind. Never gonna give you up Never gonna.

[Liz Loza]

Let you down what is happening right now?

[Desmond Borges]

Never gonna turn around and desert you who give you.

[Liz Loza]

Oh, my God.

[Desmond Borges]

Never gonna give Never gonna give Give you up. Jameer Gibbs, baby. Okay, yeah.

[Liz Loza]

That was excellent. He is my RB2 this season. Ranked just behind Bijon Robinson. You're on board.

[Desmond Borges]

I love him. I'm keeping him in our league. Oh, for $42.

[Liz Loza]

Wow.

[Desmond Borges]

Okay. Yeah, it's a little under what his going value is, which I get a little discount on him. But even without Ben Johnson there, I think, I think this is Jameer Gibbs offense and I think this is his year.

[Liz Loza]

I don't think anyone will dispute that. Who is the Miranda Priestley of fantasy football? This, of course, is Meryl Streep in.

[Commercial Voice]

The Devil Wears Prada.

[Desmond Borges]

Oh, queen, queen. I mean, what's only fit for a queen can only be fit for a king. Derrick Henry.

[Liz Loza]

That is an excellent comp. Are you at all worried about the tread on the tires here with Derrick Henry? I mean, he did go over 300 carries last season.

[Desmond Borges]

Yeah. But he's got kind of that LeBron ish thing about him. I feel like he keeps himself in excellent condition.

[Liz Loza]

Part of a great offense, Lamar Jackson opening up lanes.

[Desmond Borges]

And he doesn't have to do the heavy lifting in the front part of the season. They can save him for the back part of the season. Season. You've got explosive Keaton Mitchell in the back field, who's fantastic. You've got, say, flowers, who you can throw screens to, which is basically a run bubble game that they can go to all day long.

[Liz Loza]

Did you run bubble game?

[Desmond Borges]

I love that. And then, and then, I mean, how many yards is Lamar Jackson going to run for this year? 1500 himself. I mean, so I, I, I think Henry, while his, his volume might not be as high as it was last year, I don't think his production level is going to drop off because there's just too many other people for defenses to focus on and worry about.

[Liz Loza]

Who is the scar from the Lion King?

[Desmond Borges]

Aaron Rodgers. He'll look you in the eye, grab you by your, the drop of the neck. Right on Ayahuasca trip. Spitting some Joe Rogan crap and then let you go and let you fall.

[Liz Loza]

No notes.

[Desmond Borges]

No thank you.

[Liz Loza]

No notes. Let's end on this one.

[Desmond Borges]

Okay?

[Liz Loza]

Who is. And you've got to really do a good job here because this is my favorite character of all time from my favorite movie of all time. Who is the baby hauser of 2025 fantasy football?

[Desmond Borges]

Nobody puts baby in a corner.

[Liz Loza]

Say it again, one more time.

[Desmond Borges]

Nobody puts baby in a corner. Do you know that I took dance lessons with Patrick Swayze when I lived in Houston, Texas? It was his mom's dance company. So when I first started acting in high school and I started branching out. Cause I knew this is what I wanted to do. And his mom had a dance studio and he came into a couple of them and I got to take lessons from. From him.

[Liz Loza]

Rip up into the air over his head.

[Desmond Borges]

No, I was hoping. I tried to do all I could.

[Liz Loza]

I mean, that movie.

[Desmond Borges]

Nobody puts baby in a corner. Nobody puts Chase Brown in a corner. This is the thing.

[Liz Loza]

Continued.

[Desmond Borges]

I like, I had him on my team last year. I think this. I think he has top five RB upside. We're talking about that defense still not getting better. We're talking about Joey Burrow still slinging the ball over 4,000 yards. He can catch it. He's elusive. He can run. He's quick. He's fast. I love everything about Chase Brown, and I feel like a lot of people are still underplaying him because they thought, oh, well, Zach Moss started in the backfield last year. Year, yeah, for like three games. And then Chase Brown took over. And then it was like, see, is.

[Liz Loza]

That also Moss has been waived by the team this year. And here's an interesting stat stat. After Moss got hurt from week 10 on, Brown had an 86% snapshare, which was the highest among all running backs. He is going to absolutely eat. And you ate that segment.

[Desmond Borges]

Thank you.

[Liz Loza]

Thank you so much for coming. Can you tell everyone what you're working on now, where to find you, your social media, plug it all?

[Desmond Borges]

Well, you know, the entertainment industry isn't doing so well overall, if most of you haven't heard. So if you really want to find me, you can always find me on Instagram because I'm there. Or at your local badass donut shop. Chances are I'll be there eating my feelings away. But I'm also currently in Sophie Brooks's new independent film Ojai, starring Logan Lerman and Molly Gordon, and it is quite fantastic. And as always, go support film. But definitely go support indie film and I think you'll really enjoy it. It's a fun ride.

[Liz Loza]

Thank you so much Des. I love you in all of the ways as the commissioner of our league, whether you're in a film with JLO or an indie film. You are so talented, you are so generous and you are surely one of my closest friends. So thank you so much for coming and joining me on Facts versus Feelings.

[Desmond Borges]

Thank you for having me. I'll see you soon. Yes, go Chase Brown.

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[Desmond Borges]

Smuckers Uncrustables podcast with your host Uncrustables. Okay, today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust.

[David Presley]

Thanks for having me.

[Desmond Borges]

Today's topic he's round with soft pillowy bread.

[David Presley]

Hey. Filled with delicious PB and J.

[Desmond Borges]

Are you talking about yourself? And you can take them anywhere. Why'd you invite and we are out of time. Are you really cutting me off? Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry Crust.

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We do a routine call after surgery and I could tell in her voice that she was struggling.

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Crystal knew she needed help.

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I knew that this is very serious. This is like septic. This is life threatening.

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Hear more stories like [e-mail] benefits, features and or devices vary by plan, area limitation and exclusions apply.

[Liz Loza]

This week I want to highlight a player who, yeah, is a rookie. He is not even listed as a starter on the depth chart. But you know what Danny? I love him. Emeka Abuka was a slot king at Ohio state. He recorded 1,920 receiving yards from the alignment since 2022 which was the seventh most in the FBS. He also comps similarly to former college teammate and fellow Buckeye Jackson Smith in Jigba just to give you an idea of the skill set that we're working with. Ibuka was arguably the most nuanced route runner in this year's rookie receiver class. He also appears to have brought all of that polish to Tampa Bay, regularly being lauded for his quote perfectionist mindset. Now Chris Godwin has been dealing with this lingering issue, which has allowed a book an opportunity to gain valuable first team reps. A booker could very well start this season, his rookie campaign as Baker Mayfield's second favorite target working opposite Mike Evans, and he is available in the 13th to 14th rounds of most fantasy drafts. That is an incredible opportunity for investment in a player who's ceiling and savvy is about to be on full display.

[Desmond Borges]

Last Call.

[Liz Loza]

Today we learned that you can love a player but hate their adp, that Rainn Wilson podcasts from helicopters, and that certain players can have you at hello. Big thank you to Desmond Borges for joining the show, and as always, to producer Dave Presley for picking up my Diet Coke tab. Stay locked in on our YouTube channel so you can get all of the awesome fantasy content from the Bahamas. While you're here, go ahead and like this video. Maybe drop a question in the comment section that we can can use on a future fantasy therapy session. And until next time, may your facts be solid, your feelings be right, and your bus be someone else's problem.