2025 Top 12, Coaching News, Fantasy Superlatives (01/06 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Summary

Fantasy Football Today – Episode: 2025 Top 12, Coaching News, Fantasy Superlatives (Released January 6, 2025)

Hosted by Adam Aizer with analysts Dave Richard and Jamie Eisenberg

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1. Opening Discussion: First-Round NFL Matchups

The episode kicks off with Adam Aizer welcoming listeners and introducing the familiar cast—Dave Richard and Jamie Eisenberg—as Heath Cummings takes a post-football vacation this week.

Adam [01:38]: "Off season content begins right now."

The trio dives into the anticipated first-round matchups for the NFL playoffs, highlighting the excitement and uncertainty surrounding each game.

Jamie [02:15]: "I think Denver gives them a game. I think the Steelers give the Ravens a game."

Adam [02:25]: "Eagles are five and a half point favorites. Bucks are three point favorites over the Commanders."

They analyze the betting odds, discussing favorites like the Eagles, Bucks, Bills, Ravens, and Chargers, while expressing optimism about potential upsets in the AFC.

Adam [03:08]: "We're going to do our top 12 for 2025. We're going to do fantasy superlatives, MVP, biggest bust, rookie of the year and more."

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2. Mailbag Segment: Postseason Rankings

Responding to listener Gunner's email, the hosts discuss postseason rankings tailored for various fantasy league formats.

Gunner's Email [04:32]: "Playing in a postseason league for the first time. Could you discuss some postseason rankings?"

Dave [04:47]: "Check the rules. Some leagues allow players to carry over as long as they advance in the playoffs."

Jamie [05:48]: "Super Bowl odds from BetMGM: Lions +280, Chiefs +350, Ravens and Bills tied at +600."

The conversation underscores the importance of understanding league-specific rules and the strategic selection of players based on team playoff prospects.

Dave [05:48]: "Map out the playoffs, how I think it's going to go, and that's how I choose the players based on the rankings."

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3. Super Bowl Predictions and Playoff Strategies

The hosts debate potential Super Bowl contenders, weighing the Chiefs' strong performance against NFC rivals like the Eagles.

Adam [08:20]: "The Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl. I mean, what's..."

Dave [08:26]: "Chiefs have a much easier path through the NFC."

Jamie [09:04]: "The Eagles could be a good pick if Jalen Hurts stays healthy."

They consider the impact of key players and coaching on playoff outcomes, emphasizing the Chiefs' advantageous position in the NFC playoffs.

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4. Coaching News: Firings and Their Impact on Fantasy Football

Transitioning to coaching news, Adam outlines recent firings and hirings across the NFL, discussing implications for fantasy leagues.

Adam [16:59]: "The Patriots fire Gerard Mayo. They'll have the fourth pick in the draft."

Jamie [17:56]: "I'm curious to see how the Patriots move forward. Mike Vrabel might be next head coach."

Dave [18:34]: "Quarterbacks like Trevor Lawrence and Caleb Williams have the most to gain from new coaching strategies."

The discussion highlights how changes in coaching staff can influence player performance and fantasy value, particularly for quarterbacks and key offensive players.

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5. Injury Updates: Key Players Affected

Injury news is shared, focusing on pivotal players whose availability could sway fantasy outcomes.

Adam [12:04]: "Jordan Love and Christian Watson are out with injuries."

Dave [12:27]: "Deshaun Watson suffered a setback in his recovery."

The hosts emphasize the significance of monitoring player health, as injuries to star players like Watson can dramatically impact fantasy team strategies.

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6. 2025 Top 12 Fantasy Football Rankings

The core segment features the hosts unveiling their top 12 fantasy football players for 2025, sparking debates and comparisons.

Jamie’s Top 6 [23:39]:

1. Jamar Chase
2. Bijan Robinson
3. Justin Jefferson
4. Puka Nakua
5. Malik Neighbors
6. Saquon Barkley

Dave’s Rankings [22:51]:

1. Chase
2. Bijan Robinson
3. Jefferson
4. Puka
5. Neighbors
6. Barkley
7. St. Brown
8. Gibbs
9. Nico
10. Devon HN
11. Achan
12. Kyron Williams

Jamie’s Extended Top 12 [27:56]: 7. Amon St. Brown 8. Jameer Gibbs 9. Nico Collins 10. Devon HN 11. Kyron Williams 12. Brian Thomas Jr. 13. CD Lamb

Notable Discussions:

• Bijan Robinson vs. Jamar Chase: Jamie opts for Chase as the top pick due to his consistent performance, while Dave prefers Bijan for his dominant ground game and future potential.

  Jamie [25:03]: "Bijan averaged 22.1 PPR points per game from week six on."

  Dave [25:07]: "Bijan showed he could be dominant on the ground. He's entering his prime."

• Malik Neighbors vs. Brian Thomas Jr.: A heated debate ensues over Neighbors' higher target volume versus Thomas Jr.'s efficiency and draft value.

  Adam [33:07]: "Brian Thomas Jr. like barely was worse than him and was drafted, you know, 30 something picks later and finished much stronger than Neighbors."

  Jamie [32:53]: "His efficiency could spike with a better quarterback, raising his fantasy value."

• Saquon Barkley vs. Jameer Gibbs: Discussion centers on Barkley's solid performance exceeding draft expectations and Gibbs' potential as RB2.

  Dave [30:44]: "Gibbs averaged 18.2 fantasy points per game without Montgomery in the last three playoff games."

  Jamie [29:58]: "He averaged 32.6, 25.4, 26.3 points in the final games."

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7. Fantasy Awards: MVP Candidates and Biggest Busts

The hosts move into fantasy superlatives, debating MVP candidates and identifying the biggest busts of the season.

MVP Candidates:

• Final Four Considerations [39:23]: Lamar Jackson, Saquon Barkley, Jamar Chase, Jameer Gibbs.

  Jamie [44:58]: "I would say Gibbs over Bowers."

  Adam [44:47]: "Lamar Jackson, Saquon Barkley, Jamar Chase, Brock Bowers."

Biggest Busts:

• Top Picks [46:09]: Tyreek Hill, Travis Etienne, Marvin Harrison Jr.

  Dave [46:30]: "Tyreek Hill, Travis Etienne, Breece Hall, Marvin Harrison Jr."

  Jamie [46:37]: "Christian McCaffrey should make an exception due to his injury struggles."

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8. Rookie of the Year Discussion

The conversation shifts to standout rookies, with a focus on Brock Bowers, Jaden Daniels, and Brian Thomas Jr.

Adam [53:29]: "This is Bowers, right?"

Jamie [53:31]: "It's either him or Jaden Daniels."

Dave [54:17]: "The all-rookie team includes Jaden Daniels at quarterback, Bucky Irving and Tyrone Tracy at running back, Malik Neighbors and McConkey at receiver, and Bowers at tight end."

Debates center on draft value versus performance, highlighting how certain rookies outperformed their draft positions significantly.

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9. Waiver Wire Standouts

Identifying the best waiver wire pickups, the hosts recommend players who emerged as league winners despite low draft positions.

Dave [49:41]: "Baker Mayfield, Bucky Irving, Sam Darnold, Johnny Smith."

Jamie [50:50]: "Darnell Mooney vs. Quentin Johnson for breakthrough performers."

The discussion emphasizes the importance of flexible strategies and the potential for under-the-radar players to become key fantasy assets.

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10. Conclusion and Upcoming Content

As the episode wraps up, Adam encourages listeners to vote on their favorite segments and tease future discussions on MVP candidates and All-Rookie teams, maintaining engagement through interactive elements like Facebook polls.

Adam [59:16]: "We'll talk to you Wednesday on Fantasy Football Today."

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Notable Quotes:

• Jamie on Bijan Robinson:
  "Bijan averaged 22.1 PPR points per game from week six on." [25:03]

• Dave on Playoff Rankings:
  "Map out the playoffs, how I think it's going to go, and that's how I choose the players based on the rankings." [05:48]

• Adam on MVP Final Four:
  "Lamar Jackson, Saquon Barkley, Jamar Chase, Brock Bowers." [44:47]

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This episode of Fantasy Football Today provides a comprehensive guide to the upcoming fantasy football season, blending expert analysis with strategic insights. From evaluating first-round NFL matchups to dissecting coaching changes and injury impacts, the hosts equip listeners with the knowledge needed to excel in their fantasy leagues. The detailed discussion on the Top 12 fantasy players for 2025, along with debates on MVP candidates and identifying the biggest busts, offers diverse perspectives to inform and refine fantasy strategies. Additionally, the focus on breakout rookies and waiver wire gems underscores the dynamic nature of fantasy football, where staying informed and adaptable is key to dominating the league.

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For more detailed rankings and ongoing updates, stay tuned to future episodes of Fantasy Football Today.

Transcript

[Adam]

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[Dave]

Wanna play?

[Adam]

Can you believe this?

[Dave]

No, I can't.

[Adam]

It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Off to the races and he stays on his feet. This is gonna go the distance. Now here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie and Heath. Yo, what's up, everybody? Off season content begins right now. It is Monday, January 6th. Welcome to Fantasy Football Today presented by BetMGM, the sportsbook born in Ve. Madam Mazer, Dave Richard and Jamie Eisenberg. I believe Heath is taking a nice little post football vacation for this week. But we're all here, you guys. All right, give me the first round matchup you're looking forward to the most.

[Jamie]

Lions, Rams, or I'm sorry, Vikings. Rams. Sorry, Thomas, I didn't mean to give you some bucks.

[Dave]

Commanders.

[Adam]

Man, the NFC ones are so much better than the AFC ones on paper. Aren't they?

[Jamie]

I do think that there's like percentage points of an upset in every single game in the afc. Like even the. The Bills hosting the Broncos. You can't say that that's one that the Bills are just gonna absolutely wipe the Broncos off the map in. I think Denver gives them a game. I think the Steelers give the Ravens a game. And yes, I even think the Texans will give the Chargers a game.

[Dave]

I think the Chargers went easy. I think the Ravens went easy. I'm looking forward to based on just how the first game went. The Packers Eagles game, too. Like that should be fun.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Who's quarterbacking the Eagles?

[Dave]

I would hope it's Jalen. Hurts.

[Jamie]

I would hope so too. But I mean, something's up.

[Adam]

Well, you know, he's in the concussion protocol, so hopefully he's out, but yeah, it's obviously a big deal. Eagles are five and a half point favorites. Bucks are three point favorites over the Commanders. That's the one. I just have no idea who I think is going to win that game. Vikings. Rams. I, I actually feel pretty decent about the Vikings even though they coming off such a terrible performance. But they're two point favorites on the road. Bills are nine point favorites over the Broncos. Ravens nine and a half point favorites over the Steelers. Wouldn't be nice for the Steelers to get their act together and, you know, stick it to their arch rival. And the Texans and Chargers. Chargers are three point favorites on the road. All right, so I just. So here's what we're going to do today. We're going to do our top 12 for 2025. We're going to do fantasy superlatives, MVP, biggest bus, rookie of the year and more. And we're going to go through the coaching news, the hirings and firings, the Tyreek Hill news. I know a lot of you want to talk about, like playoff challenges and stuff like that, so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna read this one email. We'll do that later this week, but. Email of the day from Gunner. Playing in a postseason league for the first time. Could you discuss some postseason rankings? And a lot of these leagues, they're all different, right? Like, some of them, you can only use a player once, so it doesn't matter how far his team advances. But some of these leagues, you have to try to predict the outcomes of the games and see which players are going to be playing the most games. So who are some of you know, who are some of your favorite postseason players? Have you guys thought about it at All.

[Dave]

So I'm writing. I do it every year. I do playoff rankings for the site. So I'm writing them today. I usually just do it based off of who I think is going to play the longest, you know, last the longest in the postseason. I think the thing that you have to sort of look at is the, the rules, because there are some rules where you can still start a player who is not playing in the wild card round. For example, if you want to play any Chiefs thinking they're going to make a Super bowl run, or the Lions if you think they're going to make a Super bowl run. And there are some. I, I don't know if the NFL still has their playoff challenge or not and forget, but NFL.com they, they used to do it where. Or they still might, where you get double points for every round that they advance. So you can either play a player who was on a buy and still get double points that they advance, but you're just taking zeros in the first round. So every league has different scoring rules. I play in about four or five of them. And so like you said, Adam, there are some that have used them once and they're done. There are some that have, you know, again, they carry over throughout as long as they're still alive. So just check the rules. That's the biggest thing. So, you know, the thing that I always do when I write the story is I map out the playoffs, how I think it's going to go, and that's how I choose the players based on the rankings.

[Jamie]

Would you be interested to know what the super bowl odds are for every team that remains? Yeah, sure. So this is according to BetMGM, the sportsbook born in Vegas. Lions plus 280. They're the favorites. Chiefs plus 350. And then the Ravens and Bills are tied at plus 600. Those are the top four. So right off the bat, and this is pretty basic, but you would expect that players on those four teams to be very popular in the playoff challenge leagues. Right behind the Ravens and the Bills, The Eagles are plus 700. And then after Philadelphia, there's a huge drop off. Vikings 1600, Packers 1800. Then another huge drop off. All these teams are 30 to 1 or higher. Bucks, Chargers, Rams, Commanders, Broncos, Texans. Texans. The highest odds are the Steelers, 100 to 1. So maybe stay away from those Steelers players in your playoff challenge leagues. That's super.

[Dave]

The way that you, the way that you win these things is when you. A player or players from wild card teams that just make runs.

[Jamie]

Okay. So the good news is that's all but two teams. So if there was a team that you thought could make a run.

[Adam]

I mean, the Bills, obviously, it's not. That's not making a run. They're the two seed. They're. They're.

[Jamie]

No, but they're at least going to play.

[Dave]

Let me rephrase.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

The surprise team that you think is going to make a run, that you get players from that, you know, not everybody else believes in. So, like, if you think the Chargers, for example, can get to the super bowl, and you take Justin Herbert and lad McConkey and some sort of combination of any Chargers players, or if you think for, for example, the packers are going to get there because they're the seventh seed, you know, that's how you win these things.

[Adam]

Yeah, but I mean, look at the Vikings. The Vikings were a game away from being the one seed, and they had a horrible game.

[Dave]

But, but, but the point would be, is they're going to be popular because they were one game away. Yeah.

[Adam]

All right, well, I don't know. I think maybe.

[Jamie]

I don't know, according to what I just.

[Adam]

Right.

[Jamie]

Spewed off.

[Dave]

But again, you're. You're thinking about the NFL odds. It's. It's like winning a DFS tournament. It's the people that are going to take Justin Jefferson because he's great and hope that they win two games, and if they win, you know, if they play four, then you're in such great shape.

[Adam]

All right, well, who do you guys think is going to go to the Super Bowl? Because I, I think. I mean, I think the Chiefs are the best team. I just think they have a much tougher road than going through the NFC with, you know, with the Bills and the Ravens looming.

[Dave]

Well, the Bills and the Ravens have the toughest path because they have to play each other potentially and then play the Chiefs. So Chiefs only have to play one of them.

[Adam]

The Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl. I mean, what's. Like, what are we doing here?

[Dave]

It would be interesting to see if maybe Kelsey and Swift broke up, how that would go beforehand.

[Adam]

Oh, why would you say that?

[Dave]

No, if, if, if. I mean, I had Bill's Lions preseason. I don't want to deviate from what I said, but, yeah, it's hard to bet against the Chiefs because, again, their path is so much easier, I think, for the. The nfc. I mean, it's not easy in the nfc.

[Adam]

No, I mean, the Eagles, if Jalen Hurts is healthy, the Eagles are the best team. I agree But I'm going to assume he's going to play. I would pick the Eagles. I'm not going to because I don't want to hate myself, but I would pick the Eagles if I were completely unbiased.

[Jamie]

Well, right. You say that as a Giants fan. It's not because of any other reason. I wonder if that makes Hertz, like, a good value pick in these things because there might be a couple people in your playoff league that's going to say, oh, I don't know if I can take this guy might not play, but hopefully he does. And if he does that first matchup against Green Bay, I don't hate it. And then who are the. You know, you think about the teams that they might play, but they.

[Adam]

They could. They could definitely lose the Green Bay. I mean, I'm not counting that out at all.

[Jamie]

They could, but I. I think their defense will show up, and I think that they can run on Green Bay.

[Adam]

It's a tough.

[Jamie]

Green Bay's kind of limping into the game.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And then they would play either, what, the Rams or the Bucks in the second round, potentially.

[Adam]

For me, they could play. Yeah. They could play the fight. They could play any team except the Commanders. If they win. The. If the Commanders. Well, right in the lines. The Lions would get the lowest remaining seed, which would be either either the packers or the Commanders. So the Eagles could face the Vikings, the Rams, or the Bucks in the second round. Or they could lose. You know, it's. I don't love that they're facing Green Bay. I mean, remember what Green Bay did last year, going to Dallas and destroying them, you know, but anyway, what do you got? Like, who. Who. Which team? Okay, which team would you target if you were doing a playoff challenge and you were just hoping for a team that was going to make a run?

[Dave]

I don't think you're stacking players.

[Adam]

Yeah. And I don't think it's wrong to say, like, I take the Chiefs and.

[Dave]

Just like, oh, I'm stacking Lions if I have my choice of everybody.

[Jamie]

Yes, yes.

[Dave]

Their offense is just on fire right now.

[Adam]

I know, but their defense, I know, was good last night, but their defense was, as I said on Friday show.

[Dave]

I mean, historically, Aaron Glenn was already a hot coaching commodity. He, you know, probably doubled his value, if not tripled his value with what he did last night.

[Adam]

Well, that brings us to our next topic, and that would be the head coaching news. But before we get to the head coaching news, please take 30 seconds and vote for us on sports podcast. Group.com sports podcast group.com click vote. Now we're in the best fantasy betting and gaming category. And vote for fantasy football today. We'd really appreciate it. All right, News and notes. The Patriots fire Gerard Mayo. They'll have the fourth pick in the draft. The Cowboys have not decided on Mike McCarthy's fate yet. They'll have the 12th pick in the draft. The Giants are keeping Brian Dable and GM Joe Shane. They have the third pick in the draft. The Jaguars fired Doug Peterson, but they kept their gm, Trent Balky. They have the fifth pick in the draft. The. I knew you weren't going to like that one. The Browns fired Ken Dorsey. They have the second pick in the draft. He's their offensive coordinator. It was their offensive coordinator. The Dolphins are keeping their head coach and GM. They have the 13th pick in the draft. But Tyreek Hill wants out. The Bengals fired Lou and Arumo, their defensive coordinator. They will be picking 17th this season. And the Colts are doing what the Giants and the. And the Giants and the Dolphins. Excuse me. Are doing. The Colts are keeping their head coach, Shane Steichen, and their GM, Chris Ballard. They will have the 14th pick in the draft. Some injury news. Isaac Garendo hurt his knee, thinking maybe an MCL sprain. And the big news we're looking at for this weekend, Jordan Love and Christian Watson leaving with injuries.

[Dave]

Love is. Love is most likely fine. He was warming up when Malik Willis got hurt to go back into the game. I think it was initially like, it looked like maybe what happened to Brock Purdy, you know, with the elbow, some nerve damage or nerve issues.

[Adam]

It was a funny bone. He got hit in the funny bone.

[Dave]

Right. And, you know, came back in there. Also, some news that just came over about Deshaun Watson, that he suffered a setback in his recovery.

[Adam]

Oh, wow. You think the Browns take a quarterback?

[Dave]

I. I don't know how you don't take a quarterback, because if you do, it makes it easy to justify sitting him. If you don't, then you rush him back on the field when he's ready, which may be a good thing if you want him to, you know, look broken down and not play again. But, like, if you're the Browns, I'm taking a quarterback and. And forcing his hand. Okay, sorry. You're sitting. We made the mistake to pay you, but we're just gonna have to ride this out. And this is our future.

[Adam]

I'll be very interested to see how many quarter. Because this time of year, right? I mean, the mock drafts all have Shadow Sanders, Cam Ward as top picks. Will a third quarterback move up it? Oh, it happens so frequently. Right? Nobody saw.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Adam]

How many five quarterbacks go in the top 12 last year or whatever it was. Will a third.

[Jamie]

I remember being at the Senior bowl and there were NFL personnel people who could not believe that Penix or Bonix would be first round picks. One of them told me that Penix was going to be a third round pick.

[Adam]

Wow.

[Jamie]

I was like, really? That really? He's like, yeah, not gonna be good. I was like, all right. And then wow.

[Dave]

There's some thought that that Cam yours comes out. You know, he might be that guy. I'd be surprised. But he could be. Huh.

[Adam]

Quinn Ewers.

[Dave]

Quinn yours. Excuse me. What was I thinking?

[Adam]

I think he's gonna. I think if he leaves, he's gonna transfer. I was thinking he'd transfer to another school, but.

[Dave]

All right. Yeah, maybe there's, there's still the potential for that too. He might make more money transferring. I. I also wonder, I mean you know what the Vikings, after what they saw last night and Darnold struggling. I don't think it was all on Darnold, but like did he lose his opportunity to get a huge deal and do they want to pivot to JJ McCarthy who made more upside?

[Jamie]

The answer to that question is going to come in the next few weeks.

[Dave]

Totally. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Yeah. I mean if he leads under A, then he's going to make all the money. But if you.

[Dave]

That was, that was a huge playoff caliber game. That.

[Jamie]

Yeah. He looked like Sam Darnold circa 2018-2022. And if he does it again, really makes Minnesota gonna have. It's gonna have to make them think a little bit about how they advance this off season.

[Dave]

But. But if Darnold has a strong playoff performance. Yes. Then they sign him and then JJ McCarthy maybe becomes a potential trade chip. Who could be the third quarterback that's a team is coveting or the first quarterback. The first quarterback. Yeah.

[Adam]

All right, so we're gonna take a break but I want to get your thoughts on the. On the hirings and firings. Not hirings, but the firings and the non firings and what it means for Fantasy. We're gonna be right back. However, if you haven't signed up yet for BetMGM, playoffs are here. Okay. You still got time. Use the bonus code. Fantasy. When you sign up, you're going to get up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Just download the BETMGM app and sign up using the bonus code Fantasy. Deposit at least ten dollars and place your first wager on any game and you'll receive up to fifteen hundred dollars in bonus bets. If your bet loses, just make sure that you use the bonus code Fantasy when you sign up. All right, quick break. Back with some our reactions to the head coaching news and the top 12 for 2025 and our fantasy superlatives after this. In all new All Access Paramount plus Original docu series Kristen Kalistic is captain of the U. S. National team.

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[Adam]

Okay, so New England and Jacksonville have fired their head coaches. Browns fire their offensive coordinator. The Giants, the Dolphins and the Colts are keeping things as is. Dave, what's your reaction from a fantasy perspective?

[Jamie]

I'm curious to see how the Patriots move forward. I think we can all kind of pencil in Mike Vrabel as the next head coach. All of a sudden talk stopped of him going to the jets and other locations at the same time yesterday that Gerard Mayo got fired. So it would make sense if Kraft does a couple of sham interviews and then name's Mike Frable, the next head coach. Very curious to see what they do at offensive coordinator because I don't think Alex Van Pelt set the world on fire in New England, but they've got building blocks and the biggest building block they have is is Drake. May they did the right thing by pulling them from the game. I, I, I'm real curious to see how they build around him. What receivers, plural, could they add to to give him better weapons? Could he become just an absolute powerhouse for fantasy leagues? We could be talking about him in the same way that we talked about other rookies this year. Daniels, Caleb Williams, the type of quarterback that you're taking in round nine, round 10, he'll be your second guy, but has the upside to be a top 10 type of quarterback. I know Jacob Gibbs is very high on Drake May, that, that's the first reaction I'm. Jacksonville already has that quarterback too when it comes to Trevor Lawrence. They need somebody who's going to like, help rebuild the defense first and foremost. But they do have to find a way to make Trevor played his, his best game.

[Adam]

Jamie, which player do you think has the most to gain from a new.

[Dave]

Head coach or coordinator of the firings that just happened or the ones that are already available?

[Jamie]

I would go overall.

[Adam]

Yeah, overall.

[Dave]

I mean, it's all the quarterbacks that are, you know, the Trevor Lawrence, Drake, May, Caleb Williams, I mean, whoever the, the Saints decide to settle on, obviously what the jets decide to do. But you know, the quarterbacks that are in place right now, you know, it's, it's May and, and the right guy there. I, I, if the Jaguars are hiring a guy to fix their defense, then they've already failed. They have to find somebody that's going to make Trevor Lawrence look like the guy that they paid. And then Caleb Williams, I mean, look, he, he clearly was drafted number one for a reason. We've talked about this. The arm talent is, is amazing. He holds the ball way too long. He's got to have better play designs and, and better opportunities to, you know, showcase that, that arm talent. So those three guys right now have the, the most to gain, hopefully.

[Adam]

All right, we'll keep everyone updated on all the latest news.

[Dave]

How do you feel about the Giants? What it did?

[Adam]

I couldn't care less. Just don't care why you say that. Why be a Giants fan? It doesn't matter who they hire in fire, they stink.

[Dave]

I mean, jets fan, I, I think that there's an opportunity here and it's the biggest. You know, the hardest thing to solve is you get a quarterback in that franchise and the tackles could still be good. No, the defensive line has a chance to be good. It's not great. Yeah, you got a great receiver, future star. You have a good enough run game.

[Adam]

Yeah, they got a lot of work to do. This is one of the. When you root for a bad team and you see as the season goes on and the injuries pile up and they just have no depth, I don't think the Giants are alone in this, but they haven't, you know, these are the bad teams. They haven't built out their roster, they haven't done well on the second and the third day of drafts. I look at the Niners, man, and like they draft these, you know, a slot cornerback in Round five or something and he ends up being one of the Diamadore Lenore ends being one of the best slot corners in football. And, you know, they plug in all these offensive linemen and they're still functioning. And obviously they take the last pick in the draft on Brock Purdy. Is it just that they're scouting better? Is it just they're coaching them better? I don't know. But these bad teams, once the injuries hit, they have no depth. They have all these awful players on the field and it doesn't matter if they have bleak neighbors or whatever because they have too many bad players. The Giants have to really crush it.

[Dave]

Yeah, but that, I think on days two and three, then it comes down to coaching. And if Dable's not the right coach, then clearly that's the answer. But you look at what Sean McVay was able to do yesterday with backups and they just make easy throw. It's, you know, Sean Payton getting bonix. He fits what he wants him to do.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Oh, 100 and easy, easy decisions and not putting his offensive line in situations like what the Bears do where they're making him block, making those guys block for, you know, seven, eight, nine seconds because Caleb's holding the ball, because the coaching stinks.

[Adam]

So I, I think that Brian Dable can be good for fantasy. I think they were open players and the Giants quarterbacks just didn't see him. Like, Daniel Jones is just bad at that and, and he made Dable look worse than he was. So I, I, yeah, I do think if they really want them to get Cam Ward, I can't. I am all in on Cam Ward from a fantasy perspective, from an NFL draft perspective. I really, I'm not even being biased. Like, I, I wasn't that convinced, but I think I'm just being silly. He's awesome. Sanders, I don't know enough about yet, but, you know, we'll, we'll figure all that out. But I would love any of those three teams get Cam Ward, Tennessee, Cleveland or the Giants. I'm going to be pretty excited about it. But. But that's just me. I'm actually very curious to hear what all the. Now that, now that the season's over and all these people are going to go really scout these quarterbacks, they know a lot more than I do. I think Cam Ward is going to jump. Shadur Sanders, the whole book on Sanders, like the two of them, you just real, like, oh, Sanders is a safer play. Cam Ward has more upside. I think NFL teams will take that upside Ahead of the quote, unquote safety of Sanders.

[Dave]

It just takes one. I mean, if the Titans fall in love with one of these guys, they'll, you know, make it somewhat obvious at some point.

[Adam]

Yeah, maybe there's a surprise out there. We'll see. All right, let's get to our top 12 for 2025. Okay. How about. Yeah. How should we do this here? How about we'll go top six and we'll do it in segments of six? Dave, you can start. Give me your top six.

[Jamie]

If I were drafting today for 2025 and I had the first overall pick, I would take Jamar Chase. Coming off of a monster season on an offense that's crushing it. He was awesome all year. I don't think we really need to get into how awesome he was. He won the Triple Crown. That's enough said. Bijan Robinson would be number two. Justin Jefferson, for now is number three. I want to see who the quarterback is before I think about moving him to number two. So the top three for me, Chase, Bijan, Justin Jefferson. Three. After that, Puka, Nakua, Malik, neighbors, Saquon, Barkley.

[Adam]

Oh, neighbors up there. Okay, Chase, Bijan Jefferson, Puka, Nakua, Malik, Neighbors, Saquon, Barkley. That's Dave. All right, Jamie, what's your top six?

[Dave]

Bijan is one, Chase is two, Jefferson is three, Barclays four, Puka is five, and Jameer Gibbs is six.

[Adam]

Gibbs. Gibbs, by the way, finished. Remember, I said if unless Jameer Gibbs has a huge game this week, Saquon Barkley is going to be the number, right? Yeah. It would have been the first guy to finish with for number one running back in PPR with fewer than, like, 40 catches. He had 32 since Sean Alexander 2005. But Shamir Gibbs had a 40 plus point game, scored four touchdowns, and he is RB1. So Dave goes Chase, Bijan, Jefferson, Puka, Malik, Neighbors. And you said Barkley, right?

[Jamie]

Barkley is 6.

[Adam]

Jamie has full PPR.

[Jamie]

I don't know if we made that clear.

[Adam]

Oh, yeah, ppr. Jamie has basically the same players, except he has Gibbs. 6. Where do you have neighbors, Jamie?

[Dave]

I have neighbors at 10.

[Adam]

So Jamie goes Bijan, Chase, Jefferson, Barkley, Puka, Gibbs. My top six is Bijan, Chase, Jefferson. So we all have the same three. Dave went Chase, Bijan Jefferson. Jimmy and I went Bijan, Chase, Jefferson. Four is Nakua for me. Five is Nico Collins. Six is Saquon Barkley. So, Jamie, why did you go Bijan over Chase as I did?

[Dave]

By the way, just looking at the way that he finished the season and I'm hoping for some offensive lineup grades. A lot of this is clearly, you know, speculating. So you know, Dave mentioned Jefferson with the quarterback situation. We got to see who neighbors quarterback is. We got to see who the coaches for Brian Thomas, for example, who's a first round pick or should be at least, you know, so there's, there's a lot of things still at play here, but I think for, for Bijan, you know, he showed he could work in the past. It came. He showed he could be dominant on the ground. He's going to have another opportunity to be the, the featured guy. And, and I don't think their offense coordinator is changing in, in Atlanta or the head coach. So Zach Robinson should continue to, you know, dial up plenty of plays for, for Bijan. I mean, he closed the season just on an absolute monstrous tear. I think it was like nine of his last 11 with over 20 PPR points, like just, and the right age of running backs, you know. So a lot of, a lot of people will probably say why Bijan over Barkley? You know, you got to worry a little bit about this is the time where Barkley should start to see a decline. Whereas I think just the opportunity for Bijan entering his prime could be amazing.

[Jamie]

Bijan averaged 22.1 PPR points per game from week six on. He had 16 or more touches in every single one of those games. Remember earlier in the year when they weren't using them as much and everybody was freaking out too much. Tyler Alier, they figured it out in October and the results. Jamie just talked about it like nine of his last 11 games. He was on fire. 18 plus touches in all but one game leading up into the end of the year. So definitely a candidate. He's the number one pick in half and non ppr. I think it's the full PPR factor. The fact that Jir or not, Jamir Jamar Chase is going to catch so many passes puts him ahead of, of Bijan. But it's close and I don't hate you for putting Bijan at one.

[Adam]

Yeah, it was for me it was like what's the most valuable player in fantasies? It's still that, that ridiculously good running back. Or does it even matter? Can it just be that ridiculously good wide receiver? Might just be the wide receiver at this point. I just, yeah, I, I, yeah, I think either one is right. Either one's totally fine. Jefferson, we have third. I think it's interesting that Bijan's our number one running back and he had about 500 fewer rushing yards than both Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry. Like 600 fewer than Barkley, 500 fewer than Henry, something like that. It's just kind of eye popping. How great of a year that. Do you guys have Henry in your first round?

[Dave]

No, I do not.

[Adam]

I got a comment here about, you know, definitely a eyebrow razor about me having Nico Collins fifth. Do you have Nico in your first round?

[Jamie]

Yes, I do.

[Adam]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, he finished in a slump, but he was wide receiver 9 per game in PPR, wide receiver 6 per game in, in non PPR. And he's just, I think he's just going to be an absolute target hog and he's amazing. All right, so that's our top six. Dave with seven through 12 for you.

[Jamie]

Amon Ross St. Brown is seventh, Jameer Gibbs is eighth, Nico is ninth and Devon H.N. is 10th. And I, I wanna, I wanna bet on his upside coming in, but I'm already nervous and I was nervous about him last year, so maybe that's just par for the course for me. Kyron Williams is 11th and then I've got Brian Thomas Jr. A nudge ahead of CD Lamb at 12 and 13.

[Adam]

Interesting. Okay, so Dave's top 12 is Chase, Bijan Robinson, Jefferson, Puka, Neighbors, Barkley, St. Brown, Gibbs, Nico, Devon, Achan, Kyron Williams, Brian Thomas Jr. CD Lamb just off the list. Jamie, you go. Bijon, Chase, Jefferson, Barkley, Pukinakua, Jameer GIBBS. And what's seven through 12 for you?

[Dave]

So seven is locked in at St. Brown and then eight, nine, 10 and 11. I could see myself changing a billion times. So right now, 8 is CD Lamb, 9 is Nico Collins, 10 is Malik Neighbors, 11 is Brian Thomas and then 12. I do have Devon HN also, but it's like I want to see what the Cowboys do. I want to see what obviously the Texans do to fill out the receiving core quarterback for Neighbors, coach for Thomas, you know, so those, those four will probably stay in the first round, but I do want to see what the situations look like for all of them.

[Adam]

I think people are going to hate my, my top 12. Well, just a couple of them. I know people are going to raise their eyebrows about.

[Jamie]

I mean, you need to put Marvin Harrison Jr. In there.

[Adam]

No, no, I'll tell you, once we get to number eight, number seven for me is Jameer Gibbs who ends up as RB2 per game. But I mean, it's so obvious the difference here, right? I mean with. He was RB6 per game. He averaged 18.2 fantasy points per game with David Montgomery. He averaged about.

[Dave]

Which is still amazing.

[Adam]

Yeah, it's great, but it's not like, you know, he's not gonna be the top five pick with that. But he averaged about 30 fantasy points per game without Montgomery. The last three games of the year.

[Jamie]

Averaged 32.6, 25.4, 26.3, and then 46 on Sunday night against Minnesota.

[Dave]

Yeah, but he was over 25 in all three of the playoff games.

[Adam]

Well, he scored 28.4 PPR, fans.

[Jamie]

That's when Montgomery got hurt.

[Adam]

Right. Week 15. So that was like half of Montgome, but like, you just, you know what it is like Gibbs would be my number one pick if Montgomery were out. I'm sure he'd probably, probably be that for consensus, but yep, Montgomery not out. All right, number eight is where again.

[Dave]

We'Ve seen now two years of him missing time and what that could be.

[Jamie]

Oh, yeah, that's that contingency upside. And in those 14 weeks with Montgomery, he averaged 18.2. It's absolutely first round worthy.

[Adam]

Yeah. All right, number eight, though. You guys are gonna. All right, it's Christian McCaffrey.

[Dave]

Listen, if you still believe in him, if you still believe in him, he's going to go in the back half of the first round. And it wouldn't surprise me if, you know, he's healthy in camp and, you know, doing everything that McCaffrey's capable of doing. Look, we, we thought Barkley was done as an elite fantasy option. Yeah, we did.

[Jamie]

We were still taking Saquon Barkley as a top 15ish pick. Oh.

[Dave]

With his move to Philadelphia, if he stayed in the with the Giants, he wasn't going to be a first round pick last year. And Heath was, you know, look skeptical of it. Derek Henry, we were skeptical of what he would be to this level. We weren't drafting as a first round pick and he was awesome as a second rounder, you know, so, I mean, I'm obviously usually the biggest ageist that we have. And he's at that point where you got to be worried. Look at Alvin Kamara. Everything was terrible for the Saints and he averaged 18.9 PPR points with scoring, what, four touchdowns, five touchdowns. Like it was, it was bad from a touchdown perspective. So these guys can still get it done when they catch the ball that level. And Kamara was second in in the NFL and running backs and catches was 68 and didn't play the last three games of the season.

[Adam]

Who was first?

[Dave]

Good. Who was first HN.

[Adam]

Oh, sure. Yeah. All right. So I go McCaffrey 8. CD Lamb 9. I'm on Ross St. Brown 10. He's interesting though. I mean only 142 targets in 17 games and golf through everything. Yeah, he does catch everything we golf through. See 605, 539. So that's 66 fewer passes this year than he did the year before. But 54 more yards, seven more touchdowns. Yeah, I just, it was. You did see a guy who had fewer, less target share with Williams emerging with LaPorta still being there. So I don't know. Interesting. But he's so good. Malik neighbors 11. Brian Thomas Jr. 12. This one's. Do you all have neighbors ahead of Thomas? I think Jamie, you had him back to back also.

[Dave]

I do, yeah.

[Jamie]

I have neighbors significantly higher because I think any quarterback that they bring in is an upgrade. And the fact that they're keeping Dable and Dable knows to just pepper this dude with targets. He'll be in his second year. I, I think he could, I think he's got the potential, especially in full ppr to finish as the number one receiver. And I don't think it's crazy to suggest such a thing.

[Dave]

Right. But you know, and I'm not disagreeing with that but it's like Thomas was better than him this year with also bad quarterback play and he was, he.

[Adam]

Was better than him in non ppr. He was not in full ppr. They were probably very close in point.

[Jamie]

And a half per game. Better neighbors was.

[Dave]

Oh I guess with the way the season finished.

[Adam]

No, it's just all the catches. I mean look, here's the deal. Brian Thomas on a rate basis, you know, yards per out run, targets per round run. Oh, not, not targets per run, yards per out run, yards per catch, yards per target, explosive play rate. He crushes neighbors. Crushes. But neighbors had 170 targets in 15 games. Thomas had 133 targets in 17 games. I'll also point out Thomas played four games with Christian Kirk and Evan Ingram. Any average four targets per game. Five targets per game in those games.

[Jamie]

How many of those games were early in the year?

[Adam]

Weeks 1, 6, 7, 8, I believe.

[Jamie]

Yeah. So I would throw that out because I think he's established himself. Whoever goes to Jacksonville and Jamie's right, it should be an offensive minded guy to be the, the head coach there. They need more help on that side of the ball than defense. But whoever goes there is going to look at Brian Thomas as the number one receiver and hopefully Use him accordingly. It would be, it would be malpractice if a guy goes to Jacksonville and says, you know what, make sure that Christian Kirk and Evan Ingram get their eight targets.

[Dave]

One of those two guys may not be there. So they're, they're point too. Yeah, there's the potential to move on from one of them and maybe both. You know, I don't know all the contract situations and we don't need to get into that, but you know, there's the chance of one of them moving on, but I don't even think it matters. I mean, you know, the, the setup, the setup is there for both these guys. They were both amazing as rookies. They both have the chance to be absolute superstars. And hopefully quarterback situation is solved for the Giants. Coaching situation is all for Jacksonville and we're talking about two slam dunk first round picks that have the chance to be just amazing. Yeah.

[Jamie]

The thing that I would hope for, hope for with Neighbors is he continues to see Crazy Target Volume 170 is what he had this year, Adam in 15 games. Yeah, hell yeah. I mean who wouldn't want that in a PPR league? And I think his efficiency could spike close to the levels of Brian Thomas this past year with an efficient quarterback. He's played with crappy quarterbacks all year. Let's give him a good one for, for once and those numbers will go up.

[Dave]

It's like what, what's the answer there? Like do they still find themselves taking a rookie and we get the rookie struggles of what that could look like. Is it an also ran guy? Like, I don't think it's possible but you know, a Kirk Cousins goes to the Giants, you know, like that could be miserable, you know, so it really is going to depend on, on what they do. And, but the nice thing is like you said, Dave, you know, we saw what he looks like with Drew Locke. We saw what he looks like with Daniel Jones. We saw what he looks like, you know, with Tommy DeVito. You know, so there's, there's only one way to go, most likely, which is up.

[Jamie]

It sounds like I'm pricing in a quarterback upgrade for the Giants and you guys are not doing that yet.

[Dave]

I mean, I, I, I just look at it this way. To me there, there's four receivers that are right now untouchable and that is Chase Jefferson, Puka and St. Brown. Okay, the conversation for me starts after that. So like I said, After Saint Brown, for me at 7, I could see myself putting neighbors 8 moving head in. Lamb moving ahead in Nico.

[Adam]

Is that your top four receiver too?

[Jamie]

Dave Chase, Jefferson, Nakua Neighbors.

[Adam]

All right. And I had Nico four. All right. Well the Malik neighbors and Brian Thomas Jr. The it reminds me a little bit of. A little bit actually reminds me a lot of Jalen Waddle vs. Devonte Smith.

[Jamie]

As rookies, not Evans and Odell.

[Adam]

Here's the. Well, hopefully here's the comparison I was going to make. Waddle had a better year as a rookie and PPR is like caught, had a lot of targets, caught a lot of passes. Smith was so much better on a per catch and per target basis. But then like it didn't matter because like second year, Waddle had his best year. He had a huge season. It just, you know, I, I wouldn't really look so much at the rate stats and all that. Just look at the raw numbers. They're both incredible and we'll see what happens going forward.

[Dave]

I also if. If you're curious, I have several other of our top 12s if you want to hear them. Not just ours.

[Adam]

That's all right. Get to the. Because it's published, right?

[Dave]

It will not be published either till later this week or maybe next week. Geez.

[Jamie]

Do you want to. Could he name off the Most interesting top 12?

[Dave]

I haven't looked at them yet, so I'd have to look at them.

[Jamie]

No, let's just go.

[Adam]

We got to get to our fantasy.

[Dave]

I give you Heath.

[Adam]

It's okay if we can get Heaths next week. We'll be right back on fantasy football today with the MVP candidates. Just the candidates. We're gonna let you all vote on it, but we'll be right back on fft. What do you know about the Lioness program? Are you a lioness? I run it. From Taylor Sheridan comes the Paramount plus original series starring Zoe Saldana. I choose the asset. I choose the COVID I build the plan and I run it. Me. With academy award winner Morgan Freeman and academy award winner Nicole Kidman.

[Dave]

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And I do mean everyone.

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[Adam]

Okay, let's talk about the the winners of the. The award show. So we do this every year. We come up with some nominees. We're gonna come up with a final four, and I want audience participation here, people. Final four we'll come up with. Then we're gonna post it on Facebook, and everyone can go vote in our Facebook group, which just search for fantasy football today on Facebook. All right, we're going to start with the mvp, which, you know, should probably have a little bit of ADP in it, but not necessarily. We got to come up with a final four for mvp. So who are some easy one. I see Lamar. You know, I think Lamar needs to be one of the. One of the options, right?

[Jamie]

Sure.

[Dave]

Yeah. Just. Just so you know, I'm. This will be up today, the all fantasy teams with the fantasy mvp. And this is totally chosen by me, so it'll be subjective, but I. I am struggling with the mvp, and I did post a Twitter poll because most of the first I said who should be the mvp. Most of the answers I got were Chaser Barkley. And so I just did a Twitter poll on those two guys. So 1800 votes so far. Barkley slightly ahead of Chase.

[Adam]

Wow. And not Lamar Jackson.

[Dave]

I didn't. I didn't include Lamar Jackson because, I mean, I think you make a case for three quarterbacks to be fancy MVP at some point. They were all amazing.

[Adam]

All right. He averaged 30 points per game.

[Dave]

You're taking into week. Week 18, though.

[Adam]

Yeah, that's true. But, yeah, three points better than Joe Burrow. All right, so, okay, fine. Barkley and Chase, then obviously are going to be on the list, so we need two more. And here's the thing. I. I think you could make a case. I think it could be Brock Bowers. He was a 100th overall in our ADP, and he finished as tight end one per game. It's unbelievable. I think. Oh, I'm sorry. He finished his tight end one overall. Kittle. Kittle finished his tight end one per game. I think Brian Thomas Jr. Has a great case. That's because he finished strong.

[Jamie]

Finished as a top 12 receiver per game in PPR, and he was drafted after round 10 on average.

[Adam]

I think, Bar, I would not vote for Barkley because his last five games were not exceptional. 19.7, 14.4, 9.4, 27 points in week 16, 18.9. That's. That's really. That's great. But it's not. It didn't win me my league. You won me your league. You won your league before.

[Dave]

I mean, you got to look at the Body of work, though, for these guys like this. This is the thing that, you know, I struggle with in putting these teams together. It's like, how do you keep off Alvin Kamara, for example, who did not play in the fantasy playoffs but was such great value and got you there.

[Adam]

No, I, I agree. You got to look at the body of work. I just think, like, if I'm. Now, if I'm picking between these finalists, that's going to be kind of a tiebreaker for me. But. All right, what do you. So what are you guys thinking here? What's on. What's on your mind?

[Jamie]

Okay, so when it comes to quarterback candidates to be on this list, lamar was like 3 ppr, 3 ppr, 3 points per game, 6 point passing, touchdown leagues better than any other quarterback. And he was drafted like close to 30th overall on draft day. And one QB leagues. So that's pretty good value if you give up those three points. And in the case of Baker Mayfield, 3.7 points per game. Baker, there were leagues that we remember. Baker wasn't even drafted. So maybe he's like the waiver wire pickup of the year.

[Adam]

That's the easiest one.

[Dave]

Right.

[Jamie]

So maybe we don't use him as an MVP candidate. But he was somebody that obvious, obviously was awesome. I look at the running backs who were possible MVP candidates. Saquon Gibbs, like, they make sense. But Derrick Henry was taken after those guys and he averaged 18 points per game. Yeah, I've got him at 19.8 in PPR. So that's a little bit behind Barkley and Gibbs and Bijan, but not by much. And you were getting him. Let's see, what was his average draft position last year?

[Adam]

It's two points behind Barkley.

[Jamie]

Right. So maybe Barkley was probably a little bit better since he was drafted. Not that much farther ahead than Derek Henry. Yeah, Derek Henry was 11th. Saquon Barkley was fifth. So if you're going to make the case for Henry to be mvp, you might as well go all the way to Saquon.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, we, we have this, this discussion every year. Is it the guy that lived up to his value or is the guy that surprised us?

[Jamie]

It's the best value on draft day. Who finished best at his position?

[Adam]

Well, and that's finished.

[Jamie]

I think Brian Thomas Jr. Is kind of out of the.

[Adam]

Why do you have to finish? Why do you have to finish best at your position?

[Jamie]

Well, one of the best at your position.

[Adam]

Yeah, but Thomas, I mean, the way he finished, he was such a league winner.

[Jamie]

He was, but he struggled at the beginning of the year and we just got done talking about how he got off to a little bit of a slow start. Imagine what Neighbors would have been. Remember this when it comes to blink neighbors too. Imagine what he would have been if he hadn't have struggled with the concussion issue in the middle of the season.

[Adam]

Well, he's not going to win. He's not going to be on this list.

[Jamie]

But I think he should. I think he should absolutely be on the MVP list.

[Adam]

He should be a final four guy.

[Jamie]

Among wide receivers and he was drafted 70th overall.

[Adam]

Yeah, but Brian Thomas Jr. Like barely was worse than him and was drafted, you know, 30 something picks later and finished much stronger than neighbors.

[Jamie]

Not quite two a point and a half per game behind neighbors in four people. That's probably worth the drop off from 70th overall to whatever was 130th overall for Brian Thomas Jr. So okay, maybe there is a better case for BTJ over Malik neighbors. I guess the question would be Jamar Chase was five PPR points per game better than Neighbors was?

[Adam]

Yeah, it's not even. It's definitely Chase and he didn't miss any games. To me it's Chase. All right, so look, here's my final four. I'll just try to make this simple. Lamar Jackson, Saquon Barkley, Jamar Chase, Brock Bowers. And I don't mean it to have one of each position. I just a coincidence. I don't think it has to be that way. But those are to me the four.

[Jamie]

Four candidates was awesome. I don't think he should be the mvp.

[Dave]

I don't know how Gibbs, the way he finished and played is not in the conversation too.

[Adam]

Absolutely he's in the conversation. You want to put. You want to play.

[Dave]

I would say Gibbs over Bowers.

[Jamie]

I would take Gibbs over Bowers as well. Gibbs on ADP was 17.333 so top 20 pick finished top two at his position. Not too far behind Saquon.

[Adam]

Do you guys want to put Bowers in over the other three?

[Jamie]

He was less than a point per game. I wouldn't put Bowers Saquon. I don't know if maybe we should be putting Gibbs ahead of Saquon, but no, I don't think I'm serious.

[Adam]

Look, the. Here's the reason why I wouldn't Dave, because I It's tough like you got to look at full season stuff, but in the first 17 weeks of the season, Barkley was 32 points better than Jameer Gibbs, like week. Okay, yeah, week 18 really pushed that up. And most people weren't playing. All right? So I'm fine with. If you guys are fine with Jackson Barkley, Chase Gibbs, I'm fine with that.

[Jamie]

Just to have it on record, saquon Barkley, first 17 weeks of the season, 22.2 PPR points per game. Jameer Gibbs, 19.8. So yes, those three points are worth it to go from 17th overall to fifth overall.

[Adam]

All right, who are the biggest busts? The bus candidates.

[Jamie]

Oh, man. You can start with Tyreek Hill, who was drafted as like a top six pick in ppr.

[Dave]

The two. The two worst first round picks. And again, I take out injury in this, so the first, the first. The two worst first round picks. Well, I guess I don't know where Marvin Harrison's adv was, but I will tell you. Free fall. And Tyree Kill.

[Adam]

Tyree kill at wide receiver, 34 per game. And Travis Etn at running back, 42 per game.

[Jamie]

Breeze Hall's ADP was 3.5. Tyree Kills ADP was 5.8. Marvin Harrison's ADP 27.58.

[Dave]

So just. Just so you know, I. I'm doing the all fantasy teams. All bus team, all rookie team. The all bus team. If you want the list, I give it to. If you want to come up with our list and I give it to you afterwards. But Bristol's on the list of the guys who just named. Travis Etienne's on the list. Tyree Kills on the list. Marvin Harris Jr. You got to put.

[Jamie]

Patrick Mahomes on the list.

[Dave]

I did not have Moms on the list because he was not the worst quarterback of the top five who were drafted.

[Jamie]

Yeah, but he was drafted way. You're strapped.

[Dave]

The worst top five quarterback drafted based on ADP Stroud. Yes.

[Jamie]

Yeah, but he was also drafted 25 picks behind.

[Dave]

I don't care. He's. He was unstartable. Mahomes. At least you got to a point at the end of the season you're starting.

[Adam]

So I think Tyreek Hill, Travis Etienne and Marvin Harrison Jr. Are pretty easy calls in my opinion. Was Breeze hall that big of a bust? Yes, he was RB17 per game. Okay, then. Then he should be on the list 100.

[Dave]

Be easy.

[Adam]

All right, so we'll go Tyreek on.

[Jamie]

The list, but he shouldn't win.

[Adam]

All right. Tyree Kill, Travis Etienne, Breece hall, Marvin Harrison Jr. I like that.

[Jamie]

Yeah. We're really not going to consider Christian McCaffrey?

[Adam]

No, I. You can make your case, but I Don't. I wanted to do non injury busts.

[Jamie]

But go ahead, it's fine. But we were, we knew about the injury going into the draft season and every indication was he's going to be fine, he's going to play week one, even practice before week one. Then he was inactive for week one. I don't mean to bring up bad memories for people that had the first overall pick until Christian McCaffrey, but he missed week one and then he was put on IR. He was gone for nine more weeks, came back, didn't score a touchdown, had flashes of his old self, then got hurt again on a non contact injury and was out for the year. That's a pain in the ass for a 101 pick. And I know that we want to take injury out of it, but that's, it's. It that was painful to deal with and really hard for fantasy managers to come back from. And I, I kind of feel like we should make an exception to the whole, well, you can't blame injuries for this. When we thought that he was over the injury issue, it's not like he was fine, played for four weeks and then he tore his ACL or something like that. Like we kind of got bamboozled with Christian McCaffrey. Can you tell that I, Christian McCaffrey on some of my teams? Can you sense that a little bit?

[Adam]

Yeah, no, it's a. Hold on. I'm looking up my response here. Oh, man, I have such a funny response. I just can't find it. I was gonna do the whole judge from my cousin Vinnie. That was a well thought, lucid, like, blah, blah, blah, you know, argument. Overruled. But I couldn't find the script. Sorry about that. No, I. Look, it makes sense. I just, I don't know. I, I don't think people are gonna. If we're gonna say non injury bust. I don't think people are gonna vote for Christian McCaffrey because people are gonna consider him an injury bust. But good point, Dave. Okay, best waiver wire pickup. Baker Mayfield. At least we're going to put them on the list. Who else, Jamie? Who else should we be looking at?

[Dave]

I mean, I think the two quarterbacks that we mentioned and I went back and look at the waiver wire column from weeks 2, 3, 4 and 5. Just so you know, who gave you the most over the course of the season? Now, there were some guys that we recommended in there that didn't show up until later in the year. Like Jalen McMillan was mentioned early. John Dew Smith was mentioned early, you know, they didn't really show up again toward the end of the season, but they were league winners. You know, if you started them in the playoffs, Certainly, you know, McMillan's maybe a little bit tougher case to make for, but you know, John who became a top five tight end, so I think he belongs on the list. But I think the two quarterbacks, because they were, you know, again, difference makers. Baker Mayfield was easy, the best one. But Sam Darnold, I mean, look the way he played and performed. So for me, the four would be Baker Darnold, Bucky Irving and John Usmith.

[Adam]

Baker Darnold, Bucky Irving, Johnny Smith. I mean, I got no issues with that. I can't really think any. Anybody out there in the chat was. No, Chase Brown was not a waiver wire pickup. No, no.

[Jamie]

I mean, he might have been in your six team league. I don't think we can make a strong enough case for receivers like Thielen and Jerry Judy, who evolved into must start receivers in the second half, maybe like the last third of the year. Judy's actually even been like they might not have even been on the waiver wire to begin with. Judy might have just been languishing on benches, an IR spot.

[Dave]

So there's, there's some, and this is why I looked early in the season. There's some guys who were dropped after being drafted.

[Jamie]

Right. Like Bucky.

[Dave]

So Judy, Judy falls in that category. He was drafted and then dropped.

[Adam]

Keenan Allen was someone that I was gonna.

[Dave]

Again drafted and dropped.

[Adam]

That's fine. I don't. Yeah, I'm fine with that.

[Dave]

Like, I don't think that they, like for me, if we're going receivers, we told people to pick up Darnold Mooney in week two. And you started him for a good portion of the season. So if we're going to look at those type of players like I'm. I would vote Darnold Mooney.

[Adam]

Why wouldn't we vote? Why wouldn't we select?

[Dave]

We can.

[Adam]

He was on the waiver wire.

[Dave]

He was weak too. Yeah.

[Adam]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[Dave]

That was the big debate Dave and I had of Darnell Mooney vs. Quentin Johnson because they both had big week twos.

[Adam]

Oh, so he was a Week 3 waiver wire.

[Jamie]

Mooney was. Mooney's ADP was 164th, so definitely was not drafted in every single league. Neither was Zach Ertz, but I don't think he makes this conversation. I mentioned Elon already. Yeah. I don't know if I've got anybody else that could. That could be on this list.

[Dave]

I gave you a whole list of guy like Hunter Henry was somebody that came out of nowhere. Tucker Kraft, when, when we, when we said to pick him up, was 6% roster and became, you know, basically a must start tight end, not a superstar. But not, you know, again, not someone to overlook. It just depends on what the qualifications that we're looking for here. Because you know, again, Bucky Irving was like right around 60 rostered when we said to pick him up. So waiver wire guy, but still drafted in some leagues to me.

[Jamie]

Where did Kobe Myers show up on your. On your list? Because his ADP was right in line with Baker Mayfield's.

[Dave]

Jacoby Myers was also again, I think somebody that was drafted and dropped after a slow start and became great. I just look at it as who did we tell you early in the season that helped you?

[Jamie]

Yep.

[Dave]

And I think it's the two quarterbacks because they became top 10 quarterbacks. I think it's Bucky Irving with the way that he finished the season. And then I would put John who there just because he became an absolute stud.

[Jamie]

Really hard to argue with Johnnu. 13.1 PPR points per game. So that that was barely decimal points behind Najoku who was at 4 and just a couple of points per game behind Kittle McBride, Bowers, who are all over 15.

[Adam]

I like it. Okay, so that's our final four. Baker Mayfield, Bucky Irving, Sam Darnold, Johnny Smith. So who's the rookie of the year? I mean, this is, this is Bowers, right?

[Jamie]

It's either him or Jane Daniels.

[Adam]

Oh my gosh.

[Dave]

Or Thomas or Neighbors or Bucky.

[Adam]

Probably not Bucky Irving, but man, this is a good class. All right, I'm gonna let the people Jaden Daniels, Brock bowers, Brian Thomas Jr. Malik neighbors, anyone? We're missing of the rookies?

[Dave]

I mean, I don't think so. I think those are the best four.

[Adam]

Oh my gosh, that's so tough.

[Jamie]

Daniel's ADP was 94th overall. You, you could laugh at yourself with some of the quarterbacks that were taken ahead of jaden Daniels, including CJ Stroud, who was taken as a top 50 pick. Yeah, Bowers was after that. Bowers was 110th overall. So a little bit better value at the 1Z position.

[Dave]

Well, Thomas and Irving were the best values.

[Jamie]

Sure. Because they went after Bowers.

[Adam]

Does Bucky Irving deserve to be on here ahead of.

[Jamie]

I don't know if he deserves to be on here ahead of. Like he didn't finish as a top 12 running back. He had a great finish of the year the tour. So was Brian Thomas Jr. And his explosive play came much sooner than Bucky.

[Dave]

The. The. The all rookie team is the easiest story I'll ever have to write. It's Jaden Daniels at quarterback. It's Bucky Irving and Tyrone Tracy at running back. It's neighbors. It's neighbors, McConkey and Thomas at receiver, Bowers at tight end. I gave Xavier Worthy the flex spot, and it's really sad that Marvin Harrison doesn't make the list.

[Adam]

I just want to look up one thing here because I'm going to make a case for Bucky Irving over Malik Neighbors. So just hold on one second.

[Jamie]

All right, well, hold on.

[Adam]

Well, why don't you.

[Jamie]

Done?

[Adam]

No, I'm almost done. I'm going to look from week seven, which is when Neighbors got back from his concussion, and I think Andrew Thomas was out at that point. Week 7 through 17, Malik Neighbors averaged 16.5 fantasy points per game. Bucky Irving averaged 16.8 fantasy points per game. I bet if I made it. Let's check. Week 12 through 17, Irving averaged. Oh, wait. Neighbors averaged 19.5. That's gonna be tough to beat. 19.5. Irving averaged 18.7. He was RB4 per game. I just picked random. Week 12 randomly.

[Jamie]

That just makes me like Brian Thomas Jr. Even more.

[Dave]

How about we just bend our rules and do five candidates?

[Adam]

No, gotta make it hard on us. Can't do that.

[Jamie]

Well, who's gonna vote for Neighbors if Brian Thomas Jr. Is in the running?

[Adam]

A lot of people still.

[Jamie]

I mean, he finished higher. He finished with more PPR points per game. Neighbors. Did I. I. The better value on draft day was Brian Thomas Jr.

[Dave]

If I had to guess the voting, it's going to go Thomas, Bowers, Neighbors, Daniels.

[Jamie]

Yeah, but Adam's the one who gets to guess what the poll results are, so.

[Adam]

Oh, man, I am really torn between Bucky Irving and Malik Neighbors here.

[Dave]

It's Neighbors. Come on.

[Adam]

Ah, fine. Daniels, Bowers, Thomas Jr. Neighbors. Comeback Player of the Year.

[Dave]

I gave you two candidates. I can't think of a third.

[Adam]

Would you say.

[Dave]

Who did I say?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Oh, it's Joe Burrow and J.K. dobbins. I don't know who else is worthy of it.

[Adam]

Aaron Rodgers.

[Dave]

He wasn't good, though.

[Jamie]

John, who doesn't make this list?

[Dave]

What did he come back from?

[Adam]

What did he come back from?

[Jamie]

Sucking a career of it.

[Adam]

Oh. Oh, Barkley.

[Dave]

What did he come back from?

[Adam]

Mediocrity. The Giants. Derrick Henry didn't have A very good year last year, right?

[Jamie]

Yeah. That's not a bad. He should make the list.

[Adam]

Let's see. Derrick Henry was RB10 overall last year, but on a per game basis, he was not great. RB18. Yeah.

[Jamie]

And even worse in full PPR, we'll.

[Adam]

Put him on the list. All right, Burrow Dobbins, Derrick Henry.

[Dave]

How about people suggesting Darnold, which is fine too.

[Adam]

T. Higgins is like RB5 or wide receiver. Five per game.

[Dave]

I. I looked at him, I. I was surprised he played 12 games last year because first I was like, oh, he only had 76 targets. He must have only played like six games. He played 12 games. I was going to put T. Higgins on the list, so I think that that qualifies.

[Adam]

No, that's not a company.

[Dave]

It was good at the end of last year.

[Jamie]

All right, whatever you guys decide is fine. I got to run.

[Adam]

Okay. All right. T. Higgins, Joe Burrow, J.K. dobbins, Derek Henry. Tickets record. It's not bad. I mean, even George Kittle. But no, I don't think anyone's gonna buy that argument. Kelsey. No, no, no, no.

[Dave]

What did he come back from?

[Adam]

Nothing.

[Dave]

I think it's Burrow Dobbins.

[Adam]

Definitely Henry. I'm definitely, definitely going Henry.

[Dave]

No, I don't think Henry at all.

[Adam]

Why? He was RB18.

[Dave]

But again, like, that's still good.

[Adam]

Not really. Like, he got. He got RB18 per game. He looked like completely washed up.

[Dave]

I'm gonna say it's Burrow Dobbins. I'm gonna trust the chat here and go Darnold. And then I'm gonna say Zach Ertz.

[Adam]

Zach Ertz over Derrick Henry.

[Dave]

Zachary was out of the league last year.

[Adam]

Yeah, he was tight end. 11 per game. I don't know.

[Jamie]

Oh.

[Adam]

Oh. We have one week left of voting, by the way, so please vote. I don't know, Jamie. I think I'd have to. I'm gonna have to pull rank here and overrule you, Derek.

[Dave]

Terrible.

[Adam]

Schaefer Henry or Ertz Erds? What the hell? That's ridiculous. He was on like all of my fantasy teams because Dave said to draft him late and he. What did he do last year? He was injured all last year. Like, Derek Henry played every game.

[Dave]

He asked to be released.

[Adam]

Derek Henry, like, he looked like his career was over. He's 32, right? Zachary's career was over. Yeah, but Jack ers wasn't that good. Derrick Henry was one of the best league winner.

[Dave]

What are you talking about?

[Adam]

Yeah, Urs is tight end 11. Look at the way he Finished the season tight end. 11 is actually pretty good for the mediocrity at the position. Yeah, he was fine, but like he wasn't. Look at the other guys. We're talking about here. We're talking about.

[Dave]

First of all. First of all. First of all, Burrow's coming back from injury, so take what I'm about to say about him out of the equation. We thought J.K. dobbins was completely done. He's obvious. We thought that Sam Darnold would never be a quarterback again. Starter. Mustard.

[Adam]

Oh, no. I'm not disputing those. That's good.

[Dave]

And Zachary was out of the NFL and you want to take Derrick Henry, who went to the Ravens is. Oh, yeah.

[Jamie]

Wow.

[Dave]

Look. Big, big surprise.

[Adam]

Yeah, because. Because he had such a better year. Like you can't just. Okay, great. It came back. So what? He was good. He wasn't. He wasn't anything special. Like Derek Henry rushed for 1900 yards.

[Dave]

I don't know.

[Adam]

Yeah, because he wasn't done. He didn't come back from anything. He came back. He came back from a really bad year. I mean, I won a league with him last year, so I don't think it was that bad of a year. It was fine, but it wasn't a Derek Henry year. But it.

[Jamie]

Sure.

[Adam]

He. No, he averaged 6.4 more non PPR fantasy points per game and in full PPR average.

[Dave]

Eric Henry is not a comeback player of the year.

[Adam]

Oh, I disagree. He. What? What? People are asking what do you come back. I just told you he came back from a terrible season. Does everybody have to come back from an injury? He came back from a. Not a terrible. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said terrible. He came back from a bad year. He looked like he an aging running back kicked out of town. We don't want you anymore on Tennessee. See if you can revive your career. Bam. 1900 rushing yards. But he did revive his career. He still had over a thousand yards rushing. Yeah, he had a fine. Zach, If. If you're saying revive his career. Zach Ertz revived his career not in it. But he didn't have that good of a year. Like if Zach er had been a top five tight end, then sure, he's tight end. Ten people were laughing at Dave for saying to draft this guy. He finished top. Top 11 tight end. What? What's up?

[Dave]

Start. Start a list of Adam's bad takes of 20, 25. Put this on the list.

[Adam]

Yeah. We're what, six days in? All right, fine. Zachary. All right, we'll talk to y'all. I actually forgot Thomas. Are we Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Monday, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday? We'll talk to you Wednesday on Fantasy Football Today. See you. Paramount Podcasts get ready soccer fans.

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