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Beyond the Box Score: Tucker Kraft, Zay Flowers, Courtland Sutton, Woody Marks and More (10/27 Fantasy Football Podcast)
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- [00:00]
Adam Plank
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- [01:23]
Jacob
Today from CBS Sports.
- [01:25]
Dan Schneier
What a play. Can you believe this?
- [01:28]
Siya Najad
No, I can't.
- [01:29]
Fantasy Football Advertiser
It's time to dominate your fantasy league.
- [01:34]
Dan Schneier
This is gonna go the dist.
- [01:37]
Fantasy Football Advertiser
Now here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie and Heath.
- [01:42]
Jacob
What's up everybody? It is Monday, October 27th. This is beyond the box scorer Advanced stats from extremely simple people today because no Jacob, it's just me and Dan on fantasy football today presented by BetMGM. Make it legendary. What's going on, Dan?
- [01:59]
Dan Schneier
He can't get much more simple than us today. But I will say this. Obviously my football world sucks. Still, I got the 2 and 6 giants back there. But I did want to start the show off because we have producer Thomas on the show today and he's our Monday producer. One of the best in the world. Better golfer than me, but quite frankly not better at Dynasty football because the Bake Burger League. I will be putting this 8 up right now, as I go 8 and O, the matchup isn't technically over, But Thomas has zero players left to play. I have one player left to play. I'm up by 82 points. Thomas, I don't know exactly what the total number is. I'm about to score 200 in this league. So we'll just make that change right now as you filibuster me through.
- [02:37]
Jacob
Okay, I'm going to tell you guys. So. So Thomas sent me a note. Just how good of a producer is. Last year we had 17 tight end touchdowns. On National Tight Ends Day. Yesterday, we trouble over here. Okay, so last year, 17 tight end touchdowns. Yesterday we had 13. And we had 13 tight end touchdowns with no Sam LaPorta with no Trey McBride. Not that he's a big touchdown guy with no Brock Bowers. It was crazy how good the tight ends were yesterday. And we still have Travis Kelsey and Zach Ertz tonight. Thomas, I'm not sure if you're, if you know this, but that 17, it was on. It was on that Sunday. Or was it for the full week? I think it was a full week. Okay. Because I think somebody scored on Monday Night Football may have been Travis Kelsey, if I'm right. Okay. Cause now I'm just realizing that my stat also included a Ronda Gadsden's touchdown on Thursday. So full week. But yeah, I mean, great week. Let's see. Just out of curiosity, how many touchdowns did we have from tight ends in week seven? Oh, damn. We had a lot. Probably more than tight ends week. Maybe it wasn't as big as we thought. Anyway. All right, today on the show, we'll talk about Green bay and Pittsburgh. 35, 25 win for Green Bay. We will talk about Joe Flacco, Chase Brown. Are they must start guys going forward. What's going on with Cortland Sutton coming off a disappointing game against Dallas? Justin Fields, Woody Marks, Zay Flowers. We're going to do it a little bit differently. Instead of four big topics, we're going to do buy or sell. But let's start out with this. Green Bay 35, Pittsburgh 25. Pretty good game for fantasy. People are talking a lot about Tucker Kraft. Dan, what are you thinking about this game?
- [04:19]
Dan Schneier
Yeah. Kraft was actually a player that Jacob and I discussed a lot on last week's beyond the Box Score, A player who Jake has been on the entire season, so I want to give him a little credit for that. And he just looks so phenomenal. What I, I texted Jacob during the game and I was. And that's who I want to start with. I text him during the game, and I'm like, watching him separate from the matchups that he has in a given game, and that's credit to Matt Lafleur as well for getting him in these matchups. But watching him separate from these linebackers and when they put a nickel or a safety on him, it's crazy, the type of, like, breakaway speed and athleticism that he has. And so I believe, yes, the targets are hard to predict always for a team like Green Bay, but his role in that offense is so much more defined than any role we've seen for a Green Bay receiver during this Matlaflore era. And that, to me, tells me that he is likely to be one of these top plays week after week for the rest of the season. Yeah, there's going to be some frustration. Obviously, in fantasy, it's not. We're not talking about, like, Jamar Chase getting 45 targets in three games or what, 54 targets in three games with Joe Flacco. But he's a player who I'm really excited about rest of the season.
- [05:19]
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great that Tucker Kraft is doing this. I'm going to share my screen in a tweet that I had. But also, you should be aware that he's had 19 targets in his last two games. Tucker Kraft, and that's great. Both of them were very good matchups. Teams that struggle against tight ends. The packers threw 37 passes yesterday. They almost never throw that many. That's the second most all season by far. Only the second game with more than 31 pass attempts. And before that, he had 11 targets in his previous three games, you know, before the last two games. So I think we're all seeing it. He's obviously one of the best tight ends after the catch, you know, separating. He's unbelievable. We knew that going into the year that he was really good after the catch, but, you know, he didn't have that many targets, so I didn't know if it would last. Well, see the tweet that I have if you just give me one second. Sorry. He's got three touchdowns this year with 15 or more yards after the catch.
- [06:16]
Dan Schneier
Right.
- [06:17]
Jacob
Since 2010, there have only been three tight ends who have had more than three of those types of touchdowns. Fifteen or more yak in a season, and this is eight. He's played seven games and he already has three. That's tied for the NFL lead, by the way, with Khalil Shakir. But tight ends just don't do this. So which. How many tight ends like as great as Kraft has been. He's number one right now after that game, number one per game. How many tight ends would you take over Tucker Craft rest of season?
- [06:44]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, that's where it gets interesting. I mean you look at the top of the tight end board before the season and as it stands right now, we'll just start with players that we projected to be there before the season. With Brock Bowers coming back potentially off the buy. There's no guarantee of that to a team that has absolutely nothing from a blocking standpoint. It's a devastatingly bad offensive line that can't generate anything in their one dimensional. I don't have a good feeling about that situation. It'll get worse if they turn to Picket, which they might because Gino's playing so bad. So I can't put him. I can't put Bowers ahead of Kraft. McBride's the one that the next one that comes up and he definitely stands out because he seems to be more consistently involved in the offense and it's an offense that is is more predictable week to week. But I still think I take Craft after him before him. I'm saying he's better after the catch. He's a more explosive player and he does seem to have enough of a red zone role that I trust him more than McBride. Especially if they turn back to Kyler Murray and I think they will turn back to Kyler Murray which is not good for McBride.
- [07:43]
Jacob
I think it's fine.
- [07:45]
Dan Schneier
It's fine for him from a volume standpoint. It's not good for him from a touchdown standpoint.
- [07:48]
Jacob
I definitely take McBride in full PPR in non PBR I'd probably stick stick with Kraft half PPR. I think it's a toss up full PPR. I trade him for McBride. They both had their buy. They both played 7 games and Trey McBride has 25 more targets than than Tucker Craft.
- [08:04]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, I just for sure the volume is definitely there. So I'm fine going McBride especially full PBR. Sorry, I didn't mean to get involved. I thought you were and it but Ferguson. That's another one to consider. I would take Craft over Ferguson. Correct.
- [08:17]
Jacob
Yeah. I think the only other one is is Tyler Warren.
- [08:19]
Dan Schneier
Oh Warren. Yeah. Kiddo also is is in the mix. I think once Purdy comes back.
- [08:24]
Jacob
So they're the same guy. I mean that this is the only way it works for a guy like Tucker Crafts because he's on pace for 100 targets. That is not good enough Usually to be an elite tight end, unless you're George Kittle and he's the same guy. I mean, they're both, they're just so talented. They're in good offenses. And that's, that's the formula for him. He's not going to be 140, 50 target guy like Bowers or McBride. He's going to be. He's going to be like George Kittle. Now, Kittle's interesting. Tyler, I think they're about the same, right? Kittle, Warren, Kraft, I don't know.
- [08:53]
Dan Schneier
Well, now, well, now we get to the interesting one. If we're working through those. And Warren obviously is in that mix as well around Gadsden, because Craft, Craft, you may laugh at it and you may, you know, push it off. And that was a player. Jacob and I were very. I, I said last week I'd blow my entire free agent budget on him. On beyond the box score. He was the puka of last year. This. And it's not going to be puka level, and I made that clear. But there's no one who's going to hit free agency like Gadsden. And you could laugh it off and, but like now it's three games in a row with Gadsden, and that was a situation where he put up all those points. Adam, in the first half, they didn't even need to throw in the second half. What about games where they need to throw? He is the clear, best matchup they have on the field, the Chargers. That's what I said it would be.
- [09:34]
Jacob
So craft or Gadsden?
- [09:36]
Dan Schneier
I'm still going craft, but I am willing to put Gadsden in that mix.
- [09:40]
Jacob
All right. Other stuff from this game, you know, DK Metcalf is basically just kind of DK Metcalf. He's like the number. He's the number 18 wide receiver per game in full PPR. He's the number 14 wide receiver per game and half PPR. Unfortunately, he's only on pace for one, one hundred and four targets. So that needs to increase. I don't know that it will. He's a lot like Cortland Sutton, who we're going to talk about later. He just doesn't have that high of a target share. He doesn't have that high of a target per out run rate. But, you know, he's, he's getting the touchdowns and that's with only five of Pittsburgh's 15 end zone targets, only two of their nine green zone targets. You could say maybe it's a little smoke and mirrors. But for me, Metcalf is just. I know he's not great, but he's just a wide receiver too, that I'm starting pretty much every week.
- [10:29]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, he's a lot, I think, like similar to Terry McLaurin last year, except on an offense that throws fewer touchdowns and he doesn't have the same vertical explosive play opera upside. So it's like McLaurin in that role, you know, scored a lot of touchdowns last year, made a few big plays in the passing game. On a week to week basis, I think he finished what last year, McLaren. He was a top 15.
- [10:50]
Jacob
On a per game basis, he was around 15th. Yeah.
- [10:53]
Dan Schneier
Yeah. So take a little out for Metcalf. They're not score as many touchdowns. That kind of settles in as a back end wide receiver too, probably. So I think that's fine. One thing that we passed through. But on the Green Bay front, I really thought it was interesting to see Christian Watson's involvement in his first game back. That was, if you're like me and you drafted a little too much Matthew golden, it's a very scary time because I was expecting potentially him to break out in the second half of the season. He's a really talented player. There's just no way I can hope or expect that at this point given the involvement for Christian Watson and, and this was, you know, with Dante and Wooks, not even in the game. I know they, they used Malik Heath a little bit more, but they just simply don't seem in my mind to be interested in getting golden more involved in this offense in my mind right now. And by the way, Jaden Reed's coming back soon too, I think.
- [11:41]
Jacob
I hope so. He. What do you have? A collarbone, kind of a longer term injury. So I don't know that we have a timetable on Jaden Reed, but it's.
- [11:49]
Dan Schneier
Usually six to eight weeks though, I think from what I've read about that type of injury.
- [11:53]
Jacob
So we're probably about five weeks now round there with week two.
- [11:56]
Dan Schneier
It was week two, I believe.
- [11:58]
Jacob
Okay. I think. Okay. We can double check on that. But yeah, yeah. Watson ran 24 routes compared to 32 for Dobbs and 28 for Golden, 32 for Kraft. So he had a 65 route participation rate. A lot more involved than I thought he'd be. His first game back, he caught a deep ball. I don't, I mean, I'm not so jazzed to pick him up. He's 45 rostered. I think it's more of a headache because again, this team Loves to run the ball. They're one of the most run heavy teams in football. The stat of the game I gave going into this game was that Pittsburgh and Green Bay entering week eight, they saw the most and the second most pass attempts per game. Defensively, teams are throwing on these, on these teams. So they both had kind of higher pass volume than they usually had in this game. And that's the case with Jordan Love, who I think you could consider selling high on. He's, you know, he's got an interesting schedule. Like the Philadelphia game should be high scoring. The Detroit game, the Baltimore game. But two games against Chicago, one game against the Giants, Minnesota. Is he going to have to do a lot against those. He's got a game. Denver. You know, Love's going to be.
- [13:03]
Dan Schneier
I'm not told he's going to have to do a lot against Chicago either or Baltimore. I'm not sure he's gonna be able.
- [13:07]
Jacob
No. Yeah. All over them.
- [13:09]
Dan Schneier
That's the problem. Like with Love, like last night was. And he's awesome at times.
- [13:13]
Jacob
He's great.
- [13:13]
Dan Schneier
Last night. Last night was the game script they're looking for, right? They fell behind by what, one or two scores against the Steelers at half. I think they were down 13 at halftime so they had to throw the ball. But how often is that going to happen with this packers team given their defense? And it's in addition to that they lafleur runs at. Runs the offense at such a slow pace. So now you got a slow pace moving offense that doesn't use a lot of no huddle, hurry up. Uses a lot of the play clock and then game script where they're often ahead by a score or two so they don't really have to throw the ball.
- [13:44]
Jacob
All right, we'll finish up. I think Jalen Warren's still a good start. He's a number two running back. Yes, he had a solid game, didn't score. I think, look, I'm actually kind of encouraged by Aaron Rodgers just because he's so much more mobile than he was last year. Not that he is mobile necessarily, but he can like to play. He made a Roman Wilson in the first quarter. You know, he's moved, right. He's a great play. He's done. We're doing enough good stuff. I think in a super flex league, I have him in a super flex league. You know, I think when the matchup's right and they're going to throw the ball 30 times or more, I think he can get you the 20ish fantasy points they've got the Colts, the Chargers, the Bengals coming up. These are, these are really good matchups I think because it's going to force the Steelers to throw the football.
- [14:23]
Dan Schneier
And one note on that front too, with regards to the game script potential. This Steelers defense just isn't what the reputation would lead you to believe. This is a massive step back. Teams are taking advantage of their run blitz heavy scheme and they're just, you know, they're finding all these play action opportunities with open space and that could lead to more passing attempts and passing volume for this packers offense. I actually want to highlight a little bit of player who I really like coming out of college had a really rough start to his career, Roman Wilson, who really had good tape coming out of Michigan in an offense that didn't get in the ball. I know he's not involved, majorly involved. Five targets last night. You can see it up on the screen. Four reception, 74 yards and a touchdown. If we're looking into this schedule and looking into the potential game script moving forward for the Steelers and we say, look, there could be some passing opportunities, I wouldn't be surprised if Roman Wilson gets a few of them and becomes somebody who we can potentially move into like a desperation flex spot because we're going to hit some nasty bye weeks coming up when the injuries are piling up. Like people need receivers right now.
- [15:20]
Jacob
Two straight games with a 54% route participation rate for Roman Wilson, which is not great, but it's a lot higher than, than usual. Maybe he'll earn some more playing time. All right, that's, that's pretty much it for the Steelers and the Packers. Hope you enjoyed Sunday Night Football. Was a fun game to watch. What's coming up this week on beyond the Box Score.
- [15:41]
Dan Schneier
This week on the beyond the Box Score we are looking into and I just started looking into this now, so still formulating the plan actually, but we're looking into a few different receivers who have kind of either disappointed or are starting to pick it up. So Tetero McMillan will be one. We're looking into the Titan situation with DK and Ayuman or Burden, Trey Harris and Pat Bryant. Then we're going to talk about some of the tight ends, the rookie tight ends like Loveland. So just a little bit of a refresh on some of the rookies that could potentially make an impact in the second half of the season. Because I did see, I'm not sure if you saw this, but Ryan Heath tweeted it out. From week nine on is really where we typically start to see that second half breakout for a lot of the rookie receivers in fantasy. So now's the time to start to maybe make moves for some of these players or look into the situations where we feel the most confident about these players breaking out.
- [16:30]
Jacob
I did see that tweet. I wonder, is that still the case? Obviously that's the case for Brian Thomas Jr. Last year. I don't know specifically what week he started turning it on, but he was really aided by injuries to Christian Kirk and Evan Ingram and that boosted him.
- [16:45]
Dan Schneier
And Mac Jones.
- [16:46]
Jacob
Yeah, Mac Jones.
- [16:49]
Dan Schneier
It's serious though. It's for real.
- [16:53]
Jacob
Okay. Now I'd be interested to see updated if that's still the case. Obviously, rookies, sometimes it takes them time. Sometimes it takes veterans.
- [17:02]
Dan Schneier
So different too. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:03]
Jacob
Sometimes the veterans have second half breakouts. Don't forget about that. Including guy last year, Cortland Sutton, although his breakout was really tied to rookie quarterback Bo Nix's second half breakout. All right, we'll take a break out and we will be back with your news and notes. It was a team that had three offensive linemen get injured yesterday. We'll tell you who it was.
- [17:21]
Dan Schneier
Oh boy.
- [17:21]
Jacob
So a team that is decimated defensively. And by the way, the Steelers looks like they lost their safety to Sean Elliott. That looked like a bad knee injury. Not only is their defense bad, it's old and now it's even more injured. All right, we'll be right back on Fantasy football today.
- [17:36]
Ryan Wilson
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- [18:06]
John Henson
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- [18:43]
Siya Najad
What's up, everyone? It's Siya Najad from Fantasy Football Today dfs, a weekly NFL daily fantasy show that's a part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network. If you're looking for NFL game by game previews, which players stock is up or down, and DFS strategies and advice, Mike McClure, Meg Shoup and I have you covered every single week. Download and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found. Make sure to turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single pick all season long. Good luck.
- [19:12]
Jacob
Way too serious, way too business. Like today, you and me, what is going. I guess it's Jacob who brings the goofiness out, right? I mean, yes.
- [19:20]
Dan Schneier
It's not Mailbag. That's part of it. And by the way, I listened back to last week's Mailbag, the one I couldn't, unfortunately, could not make. I'll give you credit. That was an amazing impression of me that you did put a lot of pressure on myself to come up with a good atom Azer impression. I've got some things I've been working on in the. It'll probably be this Friday on the bag. I'll probably do my Azer impression in front of Jamie. He needs to be there for it, obviously. But I got a lot to work on. So I'll probably go back to the tape and see some of the things that you do.
- [19:47]
Jacob
Some of the. One of the people in the chat earlier said that we should dress up as each other for Halloween.
- [19:54]
Dan Schneier
Well, that would assume that I'm willing to dress up for something for Halloween.
- [19:57]
Jacob
Yeah. Well, I would wear like a, like a hood. I would wear what, my son's hoodie. It wouldn't fit, but.
- [20:04]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [20:04]
Jacob
Yeah. But also you wear like very childish hoodies. And what else I would get. I would get like a part my hair in the middle.
- [20:13]
Dan Schneier
Okay. Wouldn't shave.
- [20:16]
Adam Plank
You what?
- [20:16]
Jacob
I wouldn't shave.
- [20:18]
Dan Schneier
Okay. I do. To dress up as you. Yeah.
- [20:21]
Jacob
What would you.
- [20:21]
Dan Schneier
You have to obviously do the shave first. I. I mean, it would be a little quirky. Like I'd have. I'd probably shave a couple lines into my head and then put like an X on it. Like not willing to do this. My wife was on an important call at the time. Something like that. You know, put a little sign up there. I definitely, you know, when I, when I do the impression, I'll be better off with the impression for sure. Also, I don't know what this take is in the comments. I've seen this before. Hold on. Not this one. I don't really get this one from Eid. From Edu. Dan's pretend focus faces layers. I don't know what that means. People hate my face when I'm listening you guys, but I am focusing on what you're trying to say or trying to find a stat. So I'm not pretending to focus by any means.
- [21:00]
Jacob
No, I have no idea what. What the.
- [21:03]
Dan Schneier
There's a lot of stuff in the comments that makes me go crazy.
- [21:07]
Jacob
All right, let's get the news and notes. Lamar Jackson, hoping he comes back for this Thursday game at Miami. Homecoming for him. I think he usually does incredibly well there. Spencer Rattler, we don't know who the starting quarterback's gonna be for the Saints. Hopefully we'll find out soon. Joe Flacco did hurt his shoulder. He came back in the game. They have the Bears, then a buyer, Bryce Young could be back next week. Week nine at Green Bay. Cam Scatter Boo out for the season with a dislocated ankle. Quinton Judkins shoulder injury, he's going into a buy. They actually got really beat up yesterday. The Cleveland Browns. Alan Camara got a little nicked up. We're gonna have to keep an eye on this.
- [21:38]
Dan Schneier
Yep.
- [21:38]
Jacob
Saquon Barkley, he says he's fine. So they're going into their buy and then they're at Green bay in week 10. Can't wait for that one. How about Green Bay, Detroit, Dallas? Coming out of the buy for Philadelphia. Yeah, should be some fun ones there. Wide receiver news. Marvin Mims and Luther Burden are both in the concussion protocol. Rashid Shahid limped off at the end. He's probably fine. Tyler Lockett is signing with the Raiders. Does that have any fantasy impact for anyone there? Dan?
- [22:06]
Dan Schneier
No. Okay. Who would have? I mean, maybe a negative for Myers, I guess, but yeah, it's a nasty. That's a nasty situation all around the Raiders offense and fantasy.
- [22:16]
Jacob
Tight end Daniel Bellinger for the Giants left in the third quarter. And on the offensive line, three Panthers offensive linemen left with injuries. That's the team, by the way, the Panthers and Shuba Hubbard. That could be one of the reasons why he struggled. But Rico was better. I don't know when they left and I don't know that the statuses, but it's something we'll keep an eye on for going up against the packers next week. Tough run defense could be shorthanded on the offensive line. Not good for Carolina. San Francisco offensive lineman Jordan Elliott left with an ankle injury and Pittsburgh guard Isaac Sayamalu left with a chest injury. On defense. Patrick certain shoulder. They've got the Cardinals coming up so that you can already run on the Bills, but they were playing without defensive tackle Daquan Jones. And then Ed Oliver tore his biceps so he could be out for the season. They get the Chiefs next week. The Giants, as if their secondary wasn't beat up enough. Cordell flat, their best corner. He left with a concussion. Trey Hendrickson re aggravated his hip injury for Cincinnati. That's good news for the Bears because Hendrickson's their best pass rusher. And Chicago had a couple injuries on their D line. The Dolphins secondary had a couple of injuries. The Falcons. This is the one I wanted to get to.
- [23:29]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [23:30]
Jacob
What happened to the Falcons? They played so poorly. Okay. They put. Before the game started, they put linebacker Divine Diablo on IR during the game. Jesse Bates left with an ankle injury. I'm not sure when that was. They were without two regular contributors. Edge rusher Jalen Walker, cornerback Billy Bowman. So they were limping coming into that game. I didn't see this coming, but they. They were injured. They played poorly. The Dolphins did basically whatever they wanted. There are some other injuries, but you should know that Cleveland. Three defensive starters for Cleveland left with injuries. Carson Swishinger, their rookie linebacker, is probably going to be out for a little while with an ankle injury. All right, it's almost by her sell time, but it's.
- [24:09]
Dan Schneier
Before we do that, what was this last night? Your. I'm here to say Adam's tush rant last night was 100 accurate. What was the rant?
- [24:16]
Jacob
I got carried away.
- [24:18]
Dan Schneier
Oh, you got carried in a good way.
- [24:19]
Jacob
No, in a bad way.
- [24:21]
Dan Schneier
I got carried away. Oh, I gotta listen now. I love a good carried away in a bad way. Was it a mini crash out?
- [24:26]
Jacob
I mean, I was really annoyed by the officiating in that game. Don't get into it. Don't get into it. But the Eagles fans were giving it to me a little bit, and I just said, like, the Eagles have been running the most illegal play in football for like four years now. Whatever. It's. It's so elite, it's so illegal that it's actually brilliant because it's too illegal to even officiate.
- [24:47]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, it literally is. Yesterday was the biggest joke. I will say this.
- [24:51]
Jacob
No, no, no.
- [24:51]
Dan Schneier
I do believe strongly and I won't say much that yesterday will be the final straw like that it will be banned because of yesterday's play. That was by far the worst outcome that could have happened for the Eagles. They want had helped them win the game but it and they didn't really need it to win the game but right they would end up getting the play ban for sure.
- [25:08]
Jacob
They would have beaten the crap out of the Giants. No, but Jonathan Jones on on HQ actually on CBS Sports HQ said the same thing. He says I think we saw the last of the tush push not for this year but he said it fell two votes shy of being banned last year. He thinks that it's it's on its way out and that's it for it. I don't think I I it cannot have any more controversies rest of season, maybe one or two but there's just too many this year. But you don't have to worry about that with BET mgm. All right, it's time for football at BET mgm. Register with BET MGM and get instant access to the best variety of parlay features. No sweat and boost tokens, live betting options and much more. New players can receive up to 1500 dollars back in bonus bets with the bonus code Fantasy if they don't win their first bet. You don't want to miss out on any of the hard hitting action at BetMGM. Place your money line parlay bets and more today. Bet MGM. Make it legendary. All right, here we go. Buy or sell from Hipster Doofus 21.
- [26:08]
Dan Schneier
Hipster Doofus?
- [26:09]
Jacob
Yeah, he owns it. You know I like that. Buy or sell? Joe Flacco is a top.
- [26:13]
Dan Schneier
Sure he's trolling with that.
- [26:15]
Jacob
But yeah, maybe Joe Flacco is a top 10 quarterback rest of season. By or sell? Yeah.
- [26:21]
Dan Schneier
So looking into it, I wanted to run through all the players first. So the players who are in the mix I think for it for a top 10 ranking rest of season. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Mayfield, Nicks, Prescott and Hertz. We're definitely putting those seven in, right?
- [26:36]
Jacob
Well, I'm a little worried about Mayfield in the mix. Yes. Of that list, the two that I worry about would be Mayfield and Bo Nicks. Knicks is obviously just coming off games against the Giants and the Cowboys with those very easy defenses to face. Mayfield? Yeah, I think he's probably going to be top 10. He could even be like top two. It wouldn't shock me but he's been a little off lately and obviously he doesn't have the weapons that that we thought he'd have. He doesn't have Mike Evans. It's a big deal. But yeah. Yeah.
- [27:07]
Adam Plank
Okay.
- [27:07]
Jacob
I'm fine, totally fine with that list. Go on.
- [27:10]
Dan Schneier
Well, I, I would. I wouldn't personally put Flacco above Mayfield of Atlas, but I think I put the rest. Then there's, then there's Hertz and Drake May. Daniel Jones.
- [27:19]
Jacob
Are these question marks like Hertz and Drake May are top five.
- [27:23]
Dan Schneier
Okay. Okay.
- [27:24]
Jacob
They're like hurts and made to me are definitely ahead of.
- [27:27]
Dan Schneier
We're running out of space to put flat in that top 10 is the point of why I'm going it. So it's like now you're in a range of like he's with Jackson Dart who run a lot and scores touchdowns via the run. I don't know if that's going to keep up. I probably trust Flacco a little bit more. Jordan loves hard to trust week to week. Caleb Williams hard to trust week to week. And then it gets. There's a big drop off. Obviously after that you have like your fields types and your Aaron Rodgers. You did.
- [27:51]
Jacob
Let me just throw a name in there. You forgot Justin Herbert.
- [27:54]
Dan Schneier
Oh, Herbert. I thought I mentioned him earlier.
- [27:56]
Jacob
Oh, I'm sorry.
- [27:57]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, no, I might have missed that though. So ultimately I think he's probably more on the back end of it, but he's definitely in the. You don't need to be top 10 in mostly you need to be top 12 to be worth starting every week. So yeah, I think it's fair to put him in that mix for top 10. Top 12 right in the back end of it.
- [28:15]
Jacob
You. I think you definitely forgot Jaden Daniels because I did too.
- [28:19]
Dan Schneier
Oh yeah. Yeah, I did because the injury. Yeah. Okay.
- [28:22]
Jacob
Yeah. You know like Jaden Daniels is averaging 22 points per game. He's. He left one game with an injury. He's going to hopefully average a lot more than that. I think Flacco could be in the 20 to 22 point per game.
- [28:35]
Dan Schneier
Yes.
- [28:35]
Jacob
Range. So let's talk about what we're seeing from Joe Flacco since he came to the Bengals and this is what we love. We get it with the Cowboys now we're getting it with the Bengals. We get a bad defense and a talented offense and a ton of pass attempts and it's just great for fantasy. So since over the last three weeks Joe Flacco is the number seven quarterback per game in four point. Number six per game in six point per passing touchdown leagues. He's averaging almost 28 points per game which Over a full season would probably make him, you know, QB2, I think. I would guess only Lamar is going to average that much, if anyone. But you know, in a short sample size, you actually have six quarterbacks averaging 27.7 or more fantasy points over the last three weeks. He's third in past attempts per game. He's 26 in yards per attempt. That was mostly just being bad at green bay. He's 19th in completion rate with Cincinnati, 15th in touchdown rate. He has not thrown an interception yet. 24th in ADOT. He has the 8th best off target rate. He's only 31st though out of 32 qualified quarterbacks in explosive play rate. So he did get the big one to T. Higgins. But most of this stuff is short stuff. Looking for some yak. It doesn't really matter to me. He's throwing 40 times a game with Jamar Chase and T. Higgins on the field. I regret not picking him up in some leagues because I think he's a 1QB league guy. Whether he's top 10 or not, I don't know. But he's a 1 QB league guy.
- [29:56]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, I think that's fair. It's a. It's the formula that we all love, which is really bad defense. The Bengals are beyond bad at this point. I think they challenge the Cowboys for worse than the NFL. If you're giving up that kind of yardage and scores to the New York Jets. Yeah, and on the flip side, it's the volume that you expect because this offense, no matter who's coordinate calling, you know who's quarterbacking it. Even with Browning, they're a past first team under Zachary. They always have been, they always will be. And they're looking to get into spots where they can find matchups for these two receivers, Higgins and Chase. So the problem with Flaco is obvious. In fantasy, he doesn't run at all. So you're really reliant on the passing. But that formula has worked fine when it, when it comes down, when the game script aids it. By the way, we missed a major reference, you and I. Yeah, Hipster doofus is Seinfeld and we're supposed to be Seinfeld guys.
- [30:44]
Jacob
No, I'm not really a Seinfeld guy. I, I like Seinfeld, but I'm not a Seinfeld guy.
- [30:48]
Dan Schneier
I'm not a Seinfeld guy either. Even though I love Seinfeld. I haven't seen like, I've seen a lot more curb than I've seen of Seinfeld. I don't really not That I haven't seen every. I've seen every Seinfeld, but I've seen every Curb three to four times.
- [30:58]
Jacob
I don't really enjoy watching Seinfeld reruns. It's not my favorite syndicated show. It's so depressing. It's like.
- [31:05]
Dan Schneier
It's like, why is it depressing?
- [31:07]
Jacob
They're just. They're just like horrible people doing horrible things all the time.
- [31:10]
Dan Schneier
It's a comedy, dude.
- [31:12]
Jacob
I know, but it's not. It doesn't put me in.
- [31:14]
Dan Schneier
So you can't watch. So you can't watch Always Sunny, then probably.
- [31:18]
Jacob
That's a good call. They're screaming too much, and they're just degenerates. And it just bothers me because they're.
- [31:23]
Dan Schneier
The worst people in the world. But it's obviously a comedy.
- [31:25]
Jacob
It is funny. No question. I prefer. Usually I watch these syndicated shows before bed. Oh, yeah, Like a nice, serene show, you know?
- [31:35]
Dan Schneier
What do you watch? Like Frasier or something?
- [31:36]
Jacob
Simpsons, usually.
- [31:38]
Dan Schneier
Which one?
- [31:38]
Jacob
The Simpsons.
- [31:39]
Dan Schneier
Oh, I have one more thing that I. I need to bring up because it really bothered me from last week's mailbag that I wasn't on your take that Community.
- [31:47]
Adam Plank
Your.
- [31:48]
Dan Schneier
Your bashing of Community.
- [31:49]
Jacob
I didn't. Bashing.
- [31:50]
Dan Schneier
Yes, you did. You said it was the worst take ever. To potentially say it was better than.
- [31:55]
Jacob
Office or Park, That's a bad thing.
- [31:57]
Dan Schneier
Meanwhile. What?
- [31:58]
Jacob
It's a terrible take. It's. I'm not bad.
- [32:00]
Dan Schneier
Community was an incredible show in that exact tier of shows. Office and Parks. Yes. The Dean is one of the funniest characters. Michael Scott's the funniest character on all three shows. It's not why I don't think Office is one. It's that I don't believe as much in the secondary characters. But the Dean on the Office is up there with any character. Yeah, he's in any show. And Troy and Abbott are hilarious. Okay.
- [32:21]
Jacob
I wanted to say one other thing about the bagels. As we transitioned into let's talk about football again. Let's talk about Chase Brown. Big Doink says buy or sell? Chase Brown is back. And one of the things I noticed about the Bengals when I was watching the tape of their game yesterday against the jets, their offensive line was great. And we never say that about the Bengals, but it has been a lot better lately. Now, the jets, they can't get to the quarterback. They have the second lowest pressure rate in the NFL for the season, and that's what they had in. In Week 8. But over the last three games, Cincinnati opponents have ranked 23rd. Remember, teams have been on buy so this is not at a 32 team. Cincinnati. Cincinnati opponents have ranked 23rd, 18th and 23rd in pressure rate since Joe Flacco became the quarterback. So their line is playing better. And Chase Brown and Samaj P. Ryan were running through big holes for a lot of this game. They did a lot by on their own too. I'm not trying to take away but. But this is big because Chase Brown cannot survive with a bad offensive line. The improvements there are big. I don't know if they're going to last. You know, they faced. They faced the. The jets who. It was Green Bay who. Pittsburgh and the jets in their last three games. This is a big development for them. Can they. Can they actually have a. Just an average, maybe even slightly below average offensive line? Just don't be bad. Don't be bad. And then Chase Brown might be back. So do you buy it or do you sell it that Chase Brown is back?
- [33:52]
Dan Schneier
So back in the sense of what? Because he's not back in the sense of where we had him preseason. Where we had in preseason was ultimately depended on two things. One, a really hot run at the end of last season from a role standpoint and I mean from a snapshare standpoint in that backfield. He was basically the only player they played last year, Bengals from a target standpoint, the volume in the passing game and then from a touchdown upside standpoint, playing in a Joe Bar offense on through all those three other fronts. The first one being the playing side front. That's the one where I have the most concern because the role is just not the same. And though he had a good week this week and was explosive, the role continued to trend downward over the past two weeks. P. Ryan has played a lot more than at any point last year when Brown went on his run. So I don't think he'll ever get to that point. And obviously Burrow's not in. So touch on upside would never be the same. But there's still the game script that we discussed for Flacco in this Bengals offense and it appears for Chase Brown. And you made a great point, Adam. The holes that are being created, he's allowed to make these explosive plays. He was always an explosive player. It's just like every time I watched him run, there was nowhere to go. So there is upside. Given that I just don't think this kind of 25 point upside, I wouldn't count on that upside to be an RB2. Yes.
- [35:06]
Jacob
Yeah. So just some, some stats. This was his first game with more than 13.1 PPR. Fantasy points points. It was his first game with a touchdown since week one. He's averaged. He's been great per carry in three games with Flacco. 4.7, 9.8 and 6.1 yards per carry. And he's finally making some big plays. He has three carries of 22 or more yards in his last two games. But Chase Brown snapshare, as Dan just alluded to, has been 54% right around 54% in three of his last four games. That's not RB1 kind of stuff, unless you're James Cook. And then there's the receiving stuff. His target share with Joe Flacco is something like 8%.
- [35:44]
Dan Schneier
Right.
- [35:45]
Jacob
Which is okay because Flacco throws 40 plus times usually, but he's on pace for 53 catches right now. Chase Brown, for the full season, he's usually around three catches per game. Samaj P. Ryan's on the field on third down, so I.
- [35:58]
Dan Schneier
Right.
- [35:59]
Jacob
To me, that feels about right. He could have some, some pop games where he has, you know, six catches or something like, like Tony Pollard did in week seven, you know, something like that. But I think I'm gonna ballpark him in about three catches per game. How good can the offense be? Can they set him up for these goal line touchdown runs? You know, they're playing the Bears. People say the Bears you think are a good matchup. The Bears have actually been great against the run the last three weeks, even though Derek did have two rushing touchdowns. But they've gotten a lot better since T.J. edwards come. Came back. Then they get Pittsburgh, which should be fine. Then New England's a tough defense. And then there's Cincinnati. You know, the success of the Bengals, Dan, and how they do for your fantasy team, not Chase, but everyone else might hinge on the Ravens because they play the Ravens twice down the stretch. And I have no idea what to make of the Ravens as a matchup. They were absolutely horrible when they were completely injured. But now that they're healthier, you know, how good is this defense? Because the Bengals get them twice coming up, right? And it might kind of, it might swing fantasy matchups, you know, a lot.
- [37:00]
Dan Schneier
So they still have the, the, the core in place. Like they have a good scheme, a good defensive coordinator, Roquan's back. Like, there's no reason to believe it that they won't be. But I, I want to wait a little bit on that take on like what the Ravens defense will mean for fantasy because I do believe at this point and I have to watch this week's tape but just from having watched weeks six and seven on tape that Caleb Williams just not seeing the field well at all and he is not processing things and that really leads to just a dysfunctional offense.
- [37:26]
Jacob
Ooh, yak crew adventure says Joe Flacco over Josh Allen. What say you, Adam?
- [37:31]
Dan Schneier
I say no, no, no. Even like in a bad weeks for Josh Allen, like this past week, like he had like five points for most of the game and then he hits Shakir on that breakout pass and then runs one in later. He's always a threat to run one in.
- [37:45]
Jacob
Yeah, of course. All right, we're gonna take a break and talk about Cortland Sutton after this on fft.
- [37:51]
Siya Najad
What's up everyone? It's the counselor of Cash seeing Ajad from the Early Edge, a daily sports betting show powered by Sports Sportsline and part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network. If you're looking for the best bets, picks and analysis for the day in sports, we're your one stop shop. We're locked in every day with NFL bets and player props, college football picks and so much more. Download and follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found. Subscribe to the SportsLine YouTube page to watch us live at 10am Eastern Time every weekday. Make sure to turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single pick all season long. Good luck.
- [38:21]
JP Acosta
It's football season and you gotta keep up with the action. Listen in to Pushing the Pile, part of CBS Sports Podcast Network with Mike Renner, Kyle Long, and now me JP Acosta for smart analysis of everything between the lines. With four episodes a week Sunday night recaps, film review, power tiers and weekly previews, you will know ball. Stick with us until one team lists the Lombardi download and follow Pushing the Pile on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere podcasts are found.
- [38:51]
Jacob
Smith on Twitter says buy or sell Cortland Sutton and right now Cortland Sutton is wide receiver. Where are you? Oh, I'm sorry. Oh yeah, okay. He's top 14 wide receiver in all formats, but on a per game basis he's 22nd per game in non PPR and 25th per game and half in full PPR. So it's a little disappointing. It's kind of close to where he was being drafted, but we liked him a lot better. So Cortland Sutton wide. Let's just call him borderline two three cause he's wide receiver 24 essentially on a per game basis and he's only on pace for 119 targets and only on pace for six touchdowns. And here is a jaw dropping stat for you, Dan Schneier. Pick your job after I tell you this. Denver's red zone targets. I'm just going to give you the top two. Red zone is a 20 yard line or closer. Troy Franklin has 12, Cortland Sutton has five. Yeah, green zone targets, 10 yard line are closer. Troy Franklin has six. Cortland Sutton has three end zone targets. They both have six. But Troy Franklin, Troy Franklin has two fewer targets this year than Cortland Sutton. And how you feeling about Cortland Sutton over, Under wide receiver 24 rest of season?
- [40:07]
Dan Schneier
Good question. Wide receiver 24 is not asking for much and I wouldn't call that like a win anyway on his draft cost. I think it'll be right around there. Maybe I would take the over though because I believe that it's possible the Broncos have figured out something offensively. I thought that was by far and away the best drop back passing they've had all year. And it is the Cowboys. I know, I understand it's Matt Eberflus, but it just looked better out there and it looked like Knicks was throwing it more confidently. But I guess I have to consider the matchup and it was the Cowboys. I don't want to go too crazy here, right around there, but you're right. Troy Fenkin's a bigger part of this offense than anyone they had besides Sutton last year. And that's not going to go away. It's the total targets, as you mentioned. It's the red zone designs. They run a lot of screens in the red zone. It's a big part of their offense to Ingram, to Franklin. And Sutton's just not the guy to get the football on. Those screen passes, those bubbles to the wide receivers. So I mean I want to believe that they can reef gain the form they had last year, Nixon, Sutton. But I don't want to go too much higher than 24. So right in that like wide receiver 20 to 23 range would probably be where I have him.
- [41:12]
Jacob
I like him. I, I think he'll be better. I mean the target share is, is disappointing. It's about 20% and last year it was about 24%. Specifically this year it's 20.7% target share. Last year it was 24.6%. So that's down. The touchdowns are down. But are we even having this conversation if he catches that 24 yard touchdown yesterday? Because if he catches that Ball, I hit him in the hands. You know, I thought maybe it was broken up, but it was a big opportunity. If. If he catches that ball, he scores 19.1 fantasy points yesterday. And that would be six really good games out of eight. Right now it's five. The weird thing about him is that two of his worst games, you know, one was against Sauce Gardner. I understand that two of his worst games, though, were against the Colts and the Cowboys, and those are among the best matchups in fantasy. But I tend to believe in Cortland Sutton because I do think that the passing offense is getting better. Bo Nix is on pace for more yards than what he threw for last year. Actually, I always look at Bo Nix and Cortland Sutton for that matter, without week 18, because week 18 they were playing a preseason squad against the Chiefs.
- [42:16]
Dan Schneier
Right.
- [42:16]
Jacob
So if you just look at weeks one through 17, Bo Nix is on pace for more yards, more touchdowns, more pass attempts than last year. You know, I don't. I just can't see Troy Franklin being the thing that holds Courtland Sutton back. I think he's going to be good, and I think he's gonna be better than DK Metcalf rest of season. Who right now is better.
- [42:33]
Dan Schneier
I would take. Yeah, I would take him over DK Metcalf.
- [42:35]
Adam Plank
Yeah.
- [42:37]
Dan Schneier
So I'm honestly in assuming 20 to 23, I may be off too, because there's just not a lot of consistent wide receivers in fantasy football right now.
- [42:44]
Jacob
Right. All right. Buy or sell from Adam Plank. Justin Fields is the jets starter moving forward and is a must start.
- [42:54]
Dan Schneier
No, no, I'm selling. I mean, yeah, I want to believe in Fields and I. I would rather watch the tape to know for sure if something has changed. But it's just hard for me to believe that he's just become a different quarterback than what he was in one week. It's probable. It's the Bengals defense and the matchup that he had. It was unbelievable how bad the Bengals played on defense in this game. Breece Hall, I think, had done nothing this season from an explosive standpoint until this game. Isaiah Davis looked like a star in this game and Justin Fields looked like he was able to get through his progressions big time passes without Garrett Wilson on the field. So Wilson's return will help. And if Fields does keep the job, which I do not think is a guarantee, the jets have to continue to win, which is hard for them, then, yeah, he's going to be a borderline must start every week just based on his rushing upside. But I'M not so sure he's going to keep the job.
- [43:48]
Jacob
Yeah, the problem is for the fact that he did this without Garrett Wilson yesterday, even though it was the Bengals, is very impressive. So kudos to him.
- [43:55]
Dan Schneier
Him.
- [43:56]
Jacob
The problem is they get a buy and then Cleveland, who I just said has a lot of injuries on defense, maybe that won't be as bad. But Cleveland at New England, at Baltimore, Atlanta, it's a really tough stretch. I just cannot see him being a must start. His big games this year have been against Cincinnati, Pittsburgh. We know. We thought that was a tough matchup. It isn't. Miami and Dallas.
- [44:15]
Adam Plank
Wow.
- [44:15]
Dan Schneier
Good point. That. That says it all right there, doesn't it? Like the only times he's ever done anything this year were against the worst defense in the NFL. Basically for Pittsburgh, who's not the worst, but in that range.
- [44:24]
Jacob
He's also faced Buffalo in Denver and he was terrible. Them and that those are tough. I mean, I don't even know if Buffalo is a tough defense, but he was 3 of 11 for 27 yards. I just. I'm never going to throw Justin Fields in the rest of season. Must start category in a good matchup. Sure. Black Rose says buy or sell. Eagles fans are mostly good people. And you know, I'm going to sell that.
- [44:47]
Dan Schneier
Because you're Black Rose was the name.
- [44:48]
Jacob
Yeah. It's not. It's entirely.
- [44:50]
Dan Schneier
You know what that references from?
- [44:51]
Jacob
No, but it's entirely good people and Eagles fans are entirely good people. It's a sell. What's that from?
- [44:56]
Dan Schneier
From? Okay, first, I want to sell. I want to answer the question. Sell. Yes. Eagles are good people. Okay. Eagles fans are good people. I know several of my friends that are good, good people in Eagles fans. Just because they're crazy doesn't make them bad people. Now with that said, no, I'm not going to get into it. I'm not going to do a rant on the Eagles fans right now. I don't need that.
- [45:18]
Jacob
Hey, please don't. I really dug myself a big hole.
- [45:20]
Dan Schneier
You dug yourself a hole already. And we don't need F15 to become this like Eagles fan bashing podcast. Especially with all this Giants paraphernalia behind us. It's not the time. As far as the reference goes. I can't believe I got it, but I did just get it because I am watching a Paramount plus show, an old 90s show where black Rose that just saw the episode where Black Rose is referencing and it's Twin Peaks.
- [45:43]
Jacob
Oh.
- [45:43]
Dan Schneier
Ever see Twin Peaks?
- [45:44]
Jacob
No, I never have. I Heard it's great.
- [45:46]
Dan Schneier
Excellent TV show. I'm like head over. I'm addicted to it. I've just, just reeled off seven straight episodes.
- [45:51]
Jacob
Wow.
- [45:52]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [45:52]
Jacob
Impressive. Okay.
- [45:54]
Dan Schneier
In like a one week span, it's that good.
- [45:55]
Jacob
Here's our last one. It's from Brian Schlatter and he gives us a bunch of names. Buy or sell? Woody Marks, Zay Flowers, Brock Bowers and Ricky Piersol.
- [46:08]
Dan Schneier
Okay.
- [46:08]
Jacob
Woody Marks, Zay Flowers, Brock Bowers, Ricky Pearsall. In order of, of you're buying?
- [46:17]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [46:17]
Jacob
Yeah. Like how? Give me like your order of. You're buying them in.
- [46:20]
Dan Schneier
Yeah. So tier one by far is. Zay Flowers is a buy. We've talked about him a ton on beyond the box score. Check out some of our episodes from last few weeks and you'll hear some more rationale on it. But Zay Flowers, once Lamar Jackson gets back, I mean, part of the rationale was game script and we're not so sure anymore if that Ravens defense will afford the game script we want for Zay Flowers. But that's still in the realm of possibility. It doesn't matter though. His involvement in the offense is so unbelievable this year and it's only going to get better there when Lamar Jackson come back. So he's a huge buy. One of my favorite buys in fantasy for the last couple weeks now. Okay. Number two for me on that list. That's interesting.
- [46:57]
Jacob
I would much rather have Brock Bowers than Woody Marks. I would rather have Brock Bowers than Zay Flowers. Now I don't know if that's exactly how you were doing it, like a rest of season ranking because.
- [47:07]
Dan Schneier
No, that's not how it was doing it.
- [47:08]
Adam Plank
Right.
- [47:09]
Jacob
Expectations have to be a part of this too.
- [47:11]
Dan Schneier
Like yeah, you probably have to pay a lot more for Bowers than Flowers. And I did not do that because it rhymed. Because. Yeah, because people who have Bowers right now, are you really expecting them to trade him after sitting out all of his injury weeks? Like that's the last time you're going to get someone to trade a player they've, they've slugged through. It's like when people are saying a few weeks ago, trade for she Rice. Yeah, I love the idea, but who the heck is going to trade Rashid Rice after sitting on him for six?
- [47:38]
Jacob
But like forget about like acquiring just are you, you, are you in on Brock Bowers? Do you think he's going to be Brock Bowers? Do you think Zay Flowers is going to be a must start wide receiver? Do you think Woody Marks is going to be a starting running back, you know.
- [47:50]
Dan Schneier
Okay. So no, I'm not in on the Bowers. As much, as much as it pains me one, I'm not sure the injury will be solved this season too. I just despise the Raiders offense, everything about it. Their offensive line for starters, just makes it inept. And I've seen no path for them with that offensive line and how bad Gino's playing as far as Flowers goes. I went over it a little bit earlier. Woody Marks is an interesting one. It kind of depends for me, like on if I believe in this Texans offensive line taking the step forward last week or was it just matchup based? Like I have to watch the tape, honestly, for that. I want to come back to that one. I'm going to say I'm lukewarm on that leaning.
- [48:26]
Jacob
Their offensive line wasn't really. I mean, I only watched the running plays.
- [48:29]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Jacob
You know, there was a stretch. Woody Marks had a stretch starting with 22 seconds left in the third quarter and into the fourth quarter where he had five carries for 46 yards. He really got going. And then after that they were running the clock out basically and they went back to Nick chubb who had five carries for 16 yards after that point. So it's like, what does Woody Marks have to do to convince you to stick with him? This is what I would say I don't know about. Okay, stay on Woody Marks here for a second. I think he's a flex. I don't. I just don't know that they're ever going to turn it over to him. And if they do, I don't know how good he's going to be because I don't buy this offensive line at all right now. I'm happy I have him. Right. He's a good. He's a really good bi week replacement. You know, could he be better than a guy like Ken Walker who's more talented and is going to have more yards per carry and whatnot, but can't score a touchdown because Charbonnet steals them all? He could be, but I would probably trade Woody Marks for Ken Walker and just take a chance.
- [49:32]
Dan Schneier
Yeah.
- [49:33]
Jacob
You know, but Woody Marks has a little bit of a role in the passing game. He's. He's not bad. Just.
- [49:38]
Dan Schneier
I don't know.
- [49:39]
Jacob
I can't fully buy in. I think he's. I think he's like borderline top 24 running back. Flowers, I'm not, I'm not in the same boat with you as far as. Because he's the most talented player. He's so incredibly good but he never scores and he doesn't get he has one end zone target this year. What else he's got got. He's got three red zone targets this year. It doesn't even feel like a fluke anymore with him. I, I expect him to have more touchdowns than what he's had but with Lamar Jackson they just don't throw enough. He has to have, he's got a 30 target share. It has to be that like it for him to stand out on the Ravens offense. He's got to have a target share of at least 26, 27% and he might but then like what happens in the red zone they, they run the ball so much and they throw to Mark Andrews a lot. So I, I like Flowers but I would actually take Cortland Sutton over Zay Flowers. I would probably take Flowers over Metcalf. I'd probably take Flowers over Metcalf but that's close.
- [50:37]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, I don't know if I would. I do believe somewhat though in the Woody Marks in the Woody Marks role in the passing game because when you're in offense like that and you just cannot generate a consistent run game, you cannot generate a consistent drop back pass game. One way of creating offense is by using your screen game and your quick passing game to the running backs as an extension of your run game. And I think that's what the Texans have found. So I think that's here to stay that specific role which is helpful for PPR league. So I do somewhat believe in that. Pierce Hall's last on the list for me by far. Yeah. One I do not trust this knee injury. This was supposed to be a one week injury. Two weeks. He's not even practicing at all last week like it's been four or five weeks at this point and they're only going to get back players. Kiddo Ayuk will play at some point I assume. Still Jennings is playing good football despite through the injuries. So there's a lot of mouths to feed there. It's just not a role that I like and it's and I'm scared off on the injury factor there.
- [51:33]
Jacob
They haven't thrown the ball as much the last two games but if they can get, if the 49ers can get back to, you know, being the NFL leader in past attempts per game or close to it like the Chargers, that's the only way that this is going to work I think for Ricky Piersol.
- [51:48]
Adam Plank
Yeah.
- [51:48]
Jacob
The other way I think would Be he just makes a bunch of big plays downfield and these like a glorified Alec Pierce or Christian Watson or something like that. But I had been complaining about it all year. His role stinks. He gets no layups. They never give him wide receiver screens, they never throw short to him. Everything is downfield and you just can't let. It's okay if you have some downfield stuff, but you have to be able to supplement it with easy plays. Pierce all gets basically none of that right. And now Kittle's back and McCaffrey is their short area guy obviously. And as you mentioned, Jennings and I just can't buy him as someone we can rely on. Marx is really the big question here. And by the way, with Bow, all the things you said about Bowers and the Raiders offense, I guess my only rebuttal would be like, well, what is Bowers makes the Raiders offense a lot better. Maybe Bowers is the thing that's been missing from the Raiders offense and the only thing that really matters at tight end. I shouldn't say that, but the main thing that matters is volume, right? Can he just come out and dominate targets? I think he could. I don't know how to rank him. I would definitely take McBride over him. I would probably take Tyler Warren and Tucker Kraft over him.
- [53:00]
Dan Schneier
I'm hopeful for Bowers. There's just a lot of factors that scare me off of him. The injury which we don't have much information on, it could be affecting him all year. He may never regain his explosiveness at any point. I know they're trying to sit him through it and then that, I mean when you have a team like these desperation offensive line type team like this Raiders team and it'll get better. Colton Miller will be back at some point, which is is necessary for them, but until he gets back, I just don't see them moving the football with any kind of consistency.
- [53:27]
Jacob
And the thing, one thing I'll say about Marks is that just to finish up on, on Woody Marks is look, I could easily be wrong. They could just say, you know what, we're gonna make the change now and we're gonna give him the, the lead role and he's gonna be our guy and he's gonna have 15 carries and three catches a game and whatever and, and Nick Chubb's gonna have the 10 carries or something like that and that that would change things. He is however, averaging 3.8 yards per carry. He has one of the worst avoid rates so far among all running backs that have at least 30 carries. He hasn't really run the ball that well, but I feel like if he could get a rhythm, if he could get some carries, and maybe he could do something with it because he's got more juice than. Than Nick Chubb. I feel confident in that assessment. So it could go either way. I would just. I would hold or I would trade. I would try to trade Woody Marks for, you know, if any. I can't imagine you could even pull this off, but if you could trade him for Cortland Sutton, I would do it in a heartbeat.
- [54:16]
Dan Schneier
Yeah, people are down in on that.
- [54:18]
Jacob
Who else is coming off like, a horrible game? Would you trade Woody Marks for Quentin Johnston?
- [54:24]
Dan Schneier
No.
- [54:24]
Jacob
Yeah, I don't think I would either.
- [54:26]
Dan Schneier
I. I mean, he's gonna have some random big games, obviously, Quinn and Johnson, but Gadston is the man there. And you know what's so impressive about Gatson? He played a lot, too. Like, I was looking at this specifically because I basically just went nuts and have Gatson in essentially every league. Adam.
- [54:43]
Jacob
Nice.
- [54:43]
Dan Schneier
At this point, I don't think I missed one on him. But what I thought was most interesting is even when they went to some heavier personnel packages, like extra tight ends on the field, bring that fullback in. Gadson was still on the field. He. I. I don't know his snapshare rate. I would love to see it for that game last week. But they used him in a variety of ways in line as a big slot. They even use him sometimes as the boundary X or Z receiver. It's really interesting.
- [55:07]
Jacob
I. He was. He's just fantastic player.
- [55:10]
Dan Schneier
Fantastic player there.
- [55:12]
Jacob
I'm hoping that Quentin Johnson gets a little. Gets a little like, hey, we got to get you involved. Little squeaky.
- [55:17]
Dan Schneier
I think they'll still have big plays in touchdowns. It's just going to be really hard to predict week to week. Quentin Johnson, probably.
- [55:24]
Jacob
All right, that's it for beyond the box Score. Thank you, everybody. Make sure you listen to the other beyond the Box Score episodes this week. Also, I got beat the waiver wire. Coming up with Jamie soon on FFT Express. We're gonna help you out, tell you who to pick up. I wonder. Oh, Tyrone Tracy. Oh, Woody Marks for Tyrone Tracy. Rest of season.
- [55:44]
Dan Schneier
I'll go Tyrone Tracy.
- [55:47]
Jacob
Yeah, me too. Okay, have a great day. Talk to you. Next time on fantasy football. Paramount podcasts.
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