Rookie QB Preview! Cam Ward, Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, Jaxson Dart & More! (04/01 Fantasy Football Dynasty Podcast))

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fantasy Football Today – Rookie QB Preview! Cam Ward, Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, Jaxson Dart & More!

Episode Information:

• Title: Rookie QB Preview! Cam Ward, Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, Jaxson Dart & More!
• Hosts/Analysts: Heath Cummings, Dave Richard, Dan Schneier
• Release Date: April 1, 2025

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with Heath Cummings and co-hosts Dave Richard and Dan Schneier setting the stage for an in-depth analysis of the upcoming rookie quarterback class. Emphasizing the absence of April Fool's humor, the team underscores the seriousness and strategic insights they aim to provide for Fantasy Football enthusiasts eager to dominate their leagues.

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Overview of Rookie Quarterbacks

The discussion centers around five standout rookie quarterbacks poised to make significant impacts in Fantasy Football:

1. Cam Ward
2. Shedeur Sanders
3. Jalen Milroe
4. Jaxson Dart
5. Tyler Shaw Shook

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Cam Ward

Strengths:

• Red Zone Efficiency: Heath praises Cam's ability to capitalize on red zone opportunities, stating, "He changes arm slots and changes arm angles in the red zone," leading to increased passing touchdowns ([03:40]).
• Playmaking Style: Cam is described as a "big game hunter" with a penchant for making explosive plays, enhancing his Fantasy value ([09:26]).
• Arm Talent: Heath lauds his arm strength and ability to adjust trajectories, enabling successful deep and intermediate throws ([13:40]).

Weaknesses:

• Running Ability: While talented, Heath notes that Cam "isn't going to be as good a runner at the NFL level" as he was in college ([09:26]).

Draft Analysis: Dave Richard confidently places Cam Ward as the top quarterback in the class, emphasizing his immediate NFL impact potential despite concerns about the Tennessee Titans' offensive line. Heath echoes this sentiment but anticipates Cam's value landing him between QB6 and QB8 in Dynasty rankings if he fits well with the Titans' revamped offense ([19:21], [19:54]).

Notable Quotes:

• Heath Cummings ([03:51]): "There are going to be some curveballs and maybe some things that you'll hear about these players that you haven't heard from other places."
• Dave Richard ([08:31]): "Cam Ward just by, by virtue of his playmaking style... is what makes him an upside play in Dynasty at quarterback."

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Shedeur Sanders

Strengths:

• Passing Accuracy: Shedeur exhibits solid short to intermediate passing accuracy, with 52.6% of his yards coming after the catch—the highest among quarterback prospects in the draft class ([24:12]).
• Offensive Line Support: When paired with a strong offensive line and a capable receiving corps, Sanders has the potential to elevate his game ([29:45]).

Weaknesses:

• Arm Strength and Consistency: Dave expresses concerns about Sanders' arm strength and his ability to throw with velocity under pressure ([24:12]).
• Processing Skills: Both hosts are skeptical about his ability to process defenses at the NFL level, especially against blitzes and complex coverages ([28:56], [35:46]).
• Draft Capital Impact: The team's success heavily relies on where Sanders is drafted, with top-tier picks offering better opportunities but also greater investment risks ([28:56], [30:24]).

Draft Analysis: Dave remains cautious, highlighting that Sanders may not surpass the top tier unless significant improvements are made, particularly in processing and arm velocity. Heath emphasizes the zero-sum nature of quarterback success, suggesting that Sanders' floor is uncertain compared to the upside Milroe offers ([43:28], [44:24]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Richard ([24:12]): "His upside is tied to improving his processing, his downfield accuracy, his rushing."
• Heath Cummings ([35:46]): "The draft capital won't be the be all, end all when it comes to Milro."

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Jalen Milroe

Strengths:

• Rushing Ability: Milroe is lauded for his exceptional rushing prowess, potentially surpassing even Lamar Jackson in this aspect ([12:13], [37:25]).
• Deep Ball Accuracy: Heath notes that Milroe has one of the more accurate deep ball games in the class, making him a dual-threat quarterback ([37:25]).
• Tools and Athleticism: Heath highlights Milroe's ability to throw with trajectory and his standout running capabilities, enhancing his Fantasy upside ([40:29], [43:28]).

Weaknesses:

• Passing Consistency: Milroe struggles with consistency in short and intermediate passing, often getting confused by defensive schemes and pressure ([37:25]).
• Processing Skills: Similar to Sanders, Milroe's ability to process complex NFL defenses remains uncertain, potentially limiting his ceiling ([43:28]).

Draft Analysis: Heath is optimistic about Milroe's upside, suggesting that while he may not have the consistent floor of Sanders, his potential to deliver multiple top-12 Fantasy seasons makes him an enticing Dynasty asset ([37:25], [43:28]). Dave echoes the potential but remains cautious about his processing abilities ([40:37]).

Notable Quotes:

• Heath Cummings ([37:25]): "It sounds a lot like Jalen Hurts. It really does."
• Dave Richard ([40:37]): "He's got the potential to be a better thrower than both of them [Fields and Richardson]."

---

Jaxson Dart

Strengths:

• Versatility: Dart is recognized for his ability to both run and pass effectively, adding significant Fantasy value through dual-threat capabilities ([45:50]).
• Experience in Multiple Offenses: Having played in three different offensive systems, Dart exhibits adaptability and a broader understanding of various playbooks ([47:24]).

Weaknesses:

• Scheme Dependency: Heath points out that much of Dart's success is tied to Lane Kiffin's offensive schemes, making it difficult to project his NFL performance independently ([48:32]).
• Processing Under Pressure: Concerns remain about his ability to process NFL-level defenses, despite his physical tools ([49:48]).

Draft Analysis: Dan places Dart in Tier 6, expressing reservations about his long-term starting potential compared to established veterans like Geno Smith and Derek Carr. Heath concurs, emphasizing the uncertainty surrounding Dart's ability to translate his college success to the NFL ([50:24], [50:39]).

Notable Quotes:

• Heath Cummings ([47:24]): "The question remains though, like, how much of that was Kiffin and how much that was dart."
• Dan Schneier ([45:50]): "He's the second best quarterback in this class."

---

Tyler Shaw Shook

Strengths:

• Accuracy: Tyler shines in pinpoint accuracy on short and intermediate throws, which translates to reliable Fantasy points through yards after the catch and touchdowns ([50:26], [57:23]).
• Physical Tools: With a solid frame and the ability to adjust arm angles and velocities, Shook presents a promising Fantasy upside ([50:03]).
• Experience: Having played six years of college football, Shook demonstrates maturity and extensive experience ([51:42]).

Weaknesses:

• Age: At 26, Shook is older than many prospects, potentially limiting his long-term Dynasty value compared to younger counterparts ([52:54], [53:09]).
• Arm Strength on Deep Throws: While accurate in short passes, his deep ball isn't as potent as some peers, potentially capping his Fantasy ceiling ([51:42]).

Draft Analysis: Dave rates Shook as potentially the best quarterback in the class, emphasizing his readiness to play in the NFL and his high Fantasy floor. However, concerns about his age and slight arm limitations temper his long-term appeal ([51:42], [53:38]). Heath highlights Shook's strong tools but remains cautious about his translatability to the NFL ([54:29]).

Notable Quotes:

• Heath Cummings ([57:23]): "I think he's really accurate on those quick throws."
• Dave Richard ([51:42]): "He might be decent in Miami. They probably won't look at him because they just got Zach Wilson."

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Additional Discussion: Joe Milton

Analysis: Joe Milton is briefly discussed as a potential wildcard in Dynasty leagues. Dave ranks him above Tyler Shuck but below other quarterbacks like Sanders and Milroe. However, Heath expresses disinterest in Milton due to his current role as a backup without clear long-term potential ([57:46], [58:05]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Richard ([57:46]): "He would be fifth. I would put him ahead of Shuck behind. Or Dart. Sanders, Milroe."
• Heath Cummings ([58:47]): "I don't see any way he supplants Drake May. So it's just not an investment that I'm interested in."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts reiterating their excitement for the upcoming rookie running back preview featuring Matt Waldman. They encourage listeners to stay tuned for more in-depth analyses and strategic advice to enhance their Fantasy Football strategies.

Final Notable Quotes:

• Dan Schneier ([59:54]): "You can't just be somebody who has good college stats but doesn't have the traits to translate."
• Heath Cummings ([57:23]): "But he also can move, he can run. Like, he actually has that kind of athleticism."

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Key Takeaways:

• Cam Ward is the consensus top quarterback prospect with immediate NFL impact potential.
• Shedeur Sanders offers high upside but comes with significant risks related to arm strength and processing abilities.
• Jalen Milroe is an enticing Dynasty asset due to his rushing prowess and deep ball accuracy, though his passing consistency remains a concern.
• Jaxson Dart presents versatility but is highly dependent on his offensive scheme and coaching.
• Tyler Shook boasts pinpoint accuracy and physical tools but lags in age and deep ball strength.
• Joe Milton is considered a low-priority backup option with limited long-term value.

Listeners are encouraged to weigh each quarterback's strengths and weaknesses in the context of their own Fantasy Football strategies, keeping in mind the dynamic nature of rookie development and NFL team environments.

Transcript

[Heath Cummings]

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[Dan Schneier]

Welcome to Fantasy Football today Dynasty. Welcome to our Rookie Quarterback Preview. Welcome to the month of April. I am your host Heath Cummings, joined by two of the absolute best, not just a CBS fantasy, but in the business, in the world. And they've really shined the last couple of days. We've got Dave Richard, the man who knew that there would be no April Fool's jokes on this program because Dan Schneier listens to fft. We've got Dan Schneier as well and I that leads me into something that I wanted to say at the top. There were never going to be any April Fool's jokes on this program. One because that whole concept really just kind of annoys me too, because April is a sacred month here at FFT Dynasty. Like we are starting our rookie quarterback preview on Friday. We've got Matt Waldman coming on to start the rookie running back preview. We're talking wide receivers later this month. We're talking tight ends, which is actually exciting for a change. Dave, I am so excited to get Started with this month.

[Dave Richard]

I'm not. Not.

[Dan Schneier]

Come on, April Fool.

[Heath Cummings]

God.

[Dave Richard]

Listen, sorry for being an idiot. I've been living in this month since the season ended. I, I don't know if I really even said this on the main Fantasy Football Today show, but some people have kind of noticed. Where's your content? How come I can't read anything from you since the season ended? And it's because my content has been NFL draft related. Both Dan and I have done a lot with the NFL draft. So studying these, these players, the quarterbacks that we're going to talk about, I haven't even gotten to all of them. I try and go into great detail. I've been working on other positions, but Dan and I have been helping the NFL draft team at CBS Sports get ready for the NFL draft. We will have opinions on everybody, but the quarterbacks are the position that we've really worked the hardest on so far. So get ready. There are going to be some curveballs and maybe some things that you'll hear about these players that you haven't heard from other places. And of course we'll put it all in a nice tidy box to help you guys when it comes to fantasy.

[Dan Schneier]

You know, Dan, speaking of curveballs, I think that the conventional wisdom this year with this draft class is like maybe historic running back class, very, very good tight end class. And I'm not that excited about the quarterbacks and the wide receivers, but as I was going through putting together this rundown and as I, as I've thought a little bit more about it, I think there's plenty of reason to get excited about some of these guys now. Maybe the floors aren't what we want and one of the top two quarterbacks, maybe the ceiling isn't what we want. But there are some really interesting profiles in this class, aren't there?

[Heath Cummings]

There are definitely some interesting profiles. I would say more developmental in some of the cases and more taking a leap of faith. I, if I'm going to be honest, Ethan, I'm always honest on this show with my and I'm trying to be as objective as I can with my analysis. I do view quarterback a little bit differently than others. I view it as more of a zero sum game. I just look at the NFL. I look at the transition of a lot of these players into the NFL. This is an argument I have with a lot of Giants fans as well because, you know, I'm 100 hunter over Sanders at number three overall and everybody's like, why? Sanders is the supposed number two quarterback in this draft. But I really think about some of these past quarterback classes and the development of some players in the NFL which is not always linear. And a lot of the time it's either will you work in the NFL or will you not at quarterback? Right. Look at the class a few classes ago, like Malik Willis class. A lot of people would have had him QB1 or QB2 in that class. He's not worth anything right now in Redraft and really not worth much in Dynasty, in my opinion, at least behind a quarterback signed to a major contract. And I think it's just how the position works. It's really hard to transition to the NFL and I'm not trying to throw cold water because there is still upside with all these players and the price is going to be low enough that you're going to be able to buy in on some of these guys and really get a chance at, you know, returning value on the investment. I love what you discussed on the last episode Heath with and this was an episode of Regular FFT with Heat with Adam and Dave about why you like Richardson and Fields as potential sleepers. It's really just that boom. It's that investment and it's the cost you're investing in. And I think you'll see that with a lot of prospects we talk about today because there is upside to all of these players that we're going to talk about. But I do want to make sure I am clear that I am not in the camp of this is a better quarterback class than we originally thought because I do not feel that way.

[Dan Schneier]

I would have lost a lot of money when you started that. I won't call it a rant because you weren't angry when you started that. But you didn't. You didn't. You did not say anticipatory throws. You did not say the ability to throw someone open. And I don't know how to process Dan quarterback analysis without those two terms. Let's just jump right into he did say linear, so that linear is one.

[Dave Richard]

Of his terms too. Oh yeah.

[Dan Schneier]

Today is our rookie quarterback preview. We will be going deep on Cam Ward, Chador Sanders, Jackson Dart, Jaylen Milro and Tyler Shaw Shook.

[Heath Cummings]

Shock, shock. Shock is how it goes.

[Dave Richard]

What do you do to an oyster?

[Dan Schneier]

Do you know how I can remember how to say Tyler Shuck is just spell it wrong.

[Heath Cummings]

Yeah.

[Dan Schneier]

Whenever I write the yeah. Yeah. You cannot read his name and look at it at the same time and say it the right way. It's impossible. We always start with three questions for our guest, we're going to rotate here because we've got a lot to talk about and we've got a couple of guys with a lot of information, and so we'll go back and forth. And I'll start with Dave because I think he's got a name he wants to say. I listed the name of the five quarterbacks we're going to talk the most about on this show. Do any other quarterbacks in this draft class even potentially matter? Dave for Dynasty.

[Dave Richard]

You know, I, I told you that I, I thought it would be worth bringing up the name of Kyle McCord from Syracuse, but honestly, I don't, I don't, I, Unless you're an ageist, he doesn't belong in the top five. He just doesn't.

[Dan Schneier]

Right. He doesn't belong in the top five. But I will say, like, our first comment before you guys even got here was in the chat, Mark says, don't forget Kyle McCord. Yeah, so, so you, you, we didn't forget Kyle McCord, Mark. Dave said his name. Dave told you that he doesn't actually belong in the top five, and that's enough. Kyle McCourt. No, David.

[Dave Richard]

I, I compared him to Mac Jones. I think that he's, I, I, I think he's okay. You know, he's got good placement on his throws. I think he's one of the best processors in the class. He knows how to read blitzes. He can, he can process coverages. He can find the right guy. I think he's got good enough arm strength. Do I think he can ever be a great fantasy starter, maybe in, like, the most perfect of situations? Heath? Yes, But I've got five other quarterbacks I'd rather talk about.

[Dan Schneier]

Dan, let's go from maybe the bottom of the class to the top of the class. Cam Award. We're going to talk a lot about him after our first break, but I just want to know, how many quarterbacks today would you rather have in Dynasty than Cam Ward?

[Heath Cummings]

I think the number would be somewhere between, between 10 and 15 for me. Probably on the lower end of that, given age, given my expectations for Ward when he joins, if and when he joins the Titans. And I don't think that's much of a debate at this point, given their offseason, given some of the things he's going to be a Tennessee Titan, it's a fit that I like for him. It's not a fit I love as much as joining a coach like Brian Dabel, to be completely honest, because he's a Big game Hunter Ward, but that big game hunting and his creativity in the way that he processes coverages to me is what makes him an upside play in Dynasty at quarterback. I don't think he's going to be as good a runner at the NFL level that he was at the college level, but I do think that he's going, going to have an opportunity to make big plays in the passing game.

[Dan Schneier]

I'll let you both answer this final question because Dave said there would be some curveballs. Let's see if we can get one right at the start. Dave is, is there a quarter? And Dan, you can just follow. Is there quarterback Dave in this class that you strongly disagree with consensus on in either direction?

[Dave Richard]

I don't believe that. Shudder. Sanders is the number two quarterback in this class.

[Heath Cummings]

Oh, I love that.

[Dave Richard]

And I think Cam Ward is the number one quarterback in this class. So you know what direction I'm thinking with Shadur Sanders? I, I haven't seen enough of some of the other guys that weren't. I mean, we're not going to talk about Will Howard or Dylan. I saw Dylan Gabriel at the Senior Bowl. Quinn Ewers, same thing. Look, I just, I think, I think that there aren't a lot of. I, I. Sorry for stuttering. I think this is the worst fantasy position in this year's draft class. Okay, so if you're in a super flex league and you need a quarterback and you don't have, you know, 101 or 102, you're in 100 trouble because I, I don't know that the ceiling is going to be particularly high for, for any other quarterback other than Cam Ward. But that being said, just the differences of matching guys up and down, you know, I, I think it's kind of interesting that Chuck is a top five guy for me, right? Maybe depending on how I really come out on Jalen Milroe, he could be four. So I guess the headline is Sanders Heath, good.

[Dan Schneier]

Dan, any is the same take that you have or do you have a different one?

[Heath Cummings]

No, I would have a bit of a different take than that. Again, I want to make it clear that I do view quarterback as zero sum games. So I'm not saying to everybody, go out and get these guys because you're taking an inherent risk, but I see massive upside from a fantasy standpoint with Jalen Milroe. Long term now it's. There's risk he may bust, but you're not going to have to pay a big price tag here. You're certainly not going to have to pay the price tag you paid with Anthony Richardson and I think he's a way more developed passer than Anthony Richardson was coming out and I think he's a much better runner and more dynamic runner than I've watched a lot of Milroe. Dave I think he's the best running quarterback since Lamar Jackson and I think there's aspects of his game as a runner that are better than Jackson's. Jackson was more elusive and better at making people miss in a phone booth, though Milro can do that as well. But Milro's ability to win the edge as a runner and beat linebackers and third level secondary players to the edge, it's insane to watch. And he was tracked on GPS as running faster than Jameer Gibbs when they were both on the team at Alabama. Just think about how fast that really is and you could see it on the tape as he runs away from vendor. So that trade alone, it pulls back to what you said on the sleeper show. Heath. It's like when you have those types of quarterbacks, Anthony Richard and Justin Fields, you're always going to have inherent upside because rushing makes such a difference from a fantasy standpoint for these quarterbacks.

[Dan Schneier]

Excellent, excellent stuff guys. Let's take our first break and we'll jump right into Cam Ward. This episode is brought to you by.

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[Dan Schneier]

Run your [e-mail] running so Dave did an excellent job yesterday of reminding me of who has already written draft profiles on these players. So we're going to take advantage of that expertise as we move through the players. Dan, you wrote the Cam Ward profile, I believe, and so just get us started with a 10,000 foot view. What are his strengths? What are his weaknesses? How high is the upside?

[Heath Cummings]

Yeah, Ken Ward's in a really, a really exciting prospect for me. I liked him more after Watching his tape than I thought I would going into it and my expectation what he is as a player. And I'll say the reason I love Cam Moore the most is what I think he can offer immediately for NFL offenses inside the red zone as a passer. This is an area where a lot of quarterbacks struggle. We lose out on a lot of fantasy points, teams settle for field goals and we move on and we just move forward with, oh, this guy had one passing TD that game. Ward's the type of quarterback that can cash in on a lot of these red zone opportunities because I believe he'll immediately enter the NFL as one of the best red zone passers. Why? Because he changes arm slots and changes arm angles in the red zone. And with that ability to change his arm slot and arm angle, it's led to not getting passes batted down the line of scrimmage. For example, he's had just four passes down batted down the line of scrimmage the last few seasons. Someone like Sanders has had 26 despite being similar height to Cam Ward. Just as a comparison, but really in the red zone, what I see is a quarterback who can not only throw off platform but from within the pocket. And there's so many plays I've watched of Cam Ward where it's a red zone play. It's basically fooled by the defense. There's nowhere to go and he'll come off the play side, work to the backside of plays. This is something you rarely see from college quarterbacks and find a solution. And sometimes that solution is, wow, there's zone defenders in front of the receiver in the back of the end zone toward the pylon. And he'll have the ability to throw the ball with trajectory over the top of that zone defender and then land it so it doesn't fall back out of the end zone so the receiver can actually make a play on the ball. I found that solution so often, so I think immediately for fantasy he'll cash in with a lot of passing touchdowns, particularly in the red zone. But as an overall player, what I'm. What I'm most excited about with Ward is he's a big game hunter, as I like to call him, because those intermediate levels the field, specifically zone coverage, he's looking to attack. So that's the area where so many quarterbacks struggle. It's the reason I like Drake May so much watching tape of last year's quarterback class, because he was willing to attack that area of the field. It requires confidence as a quarterback, it requires timing and it requires arm talent to actually fit those balls in those windows. And at the NFL level, you cannot get away with a lot of the stuff that some of these college quarterbacks get away with to rack up passing stats and numbers. When you watch their tape, Ward doesn't rely on that. He's able to hit those, you know, hole shots, as they call them. I know people are trying to phase out that term. I'm looking for a better term as well for what those are, but it's those tight window throws in between zones and areas of the field. Outside the numbers, inside the numbers. He's great at both. He changes trajectory in the football, he can change pace on the ball, and his arm talent is phenomenal. Some have compared him Heath to Mahomes, and I find that from Homes at ttu, I find that comparison very disrespectful. While I do agree that they have similarities in the plays they make in regard, in regard to some of the things they do outside the pocket. Mahomes arm talent is not comparable to Cam Ward. It was on another level at Texas Tech. It was some of the best tape I've ever watched for, literally, for a college prospect. But it's similar to how they try and win. They try and win by taking advantage of the intermediate and deep areas of the field. So it's exciting from a fantasy standpoint because explosive plays will lead to fantasy points, and that red zone work that he does will also lead to fantasy points.

[Dan Schneier]

Well, that's how Mahomes used to win. Now we're just ding.

[Heath Cummings]

Yeah.

[Dan Schneier]

Down the field. Dave, Cam Ward, Dan mentioned it earlier in the show that he really expects he's going to be drafted by the Tennessee Titans. Everybody, I think, expects that Cam Ward's going to go 101. Do you care about landing spot at all? You care if he's on the Titans or the Giants or someone else?

[Dave Richard]

I mean, frankly, landing on the Titans is. Is one of the worst spots for him to go. It's great because it means he's going to get on the field quickly. But no matter where Cam or Gore is, he's the best quarterback in this class. I'd be shocked if he didn't start week one of the 2025 season. That being said, Tennessee's offensive line, they're trying to improve it. They're trying to make it better. I. I don't know if it'll be a top 10 offensive line at any point in 2025. The receiving core. He, we, we kind of had a fun gag on Monday's Fft episode where you quizzed me on receivers on the Raiders and I quizzed you on receivers on the Titans. That cupboard is pretty much bare. Their best receiver is 31 year old Calvin Ridley. So they've got work to do to add receivers around whoever their quarterback is to try and make that offense more explosive. But I do think that Cam Ward just by, by virtue of, of his playmaking style, his aggressive throwing nature, the way that Dan talked about his, his vision downfield going for those intermediate throw deep throws. The, the, the, the throws that he talked about specifically one was against Florida I believe. The other one was against Attack where he just somehow sees a guy pass the whole defense 25 downfield running on the back line of the end zone and he fires a perfect shot. That type of stuff elevates other wide receivers. So if he can do that in the NFL, it doesn't matter which team he goes to. It would be great for the receivers and it would obviously be great for Cam. Maybe an offensive line that's like on par with where the Titans are right now would be a better spot. And then the Browns kind of the same thing, but they're all in the same boat. Remove Malik Neighbors from the equation. So yeah, perfect Giants trade upping at Cam Ward. They pair them with Malik Neighbors already got some other team better for Cam Ward than having him start throwing to you know, a three receiver set of Calvin trailing Quan Jackson in Tennessee or I guess it would be Van Jefferson third receiver either way. So ultimately, yeah.

[Dan Schneier]

We'Re going to try to get Dave's audio fixed here and I'll go back to you Thomas. We are talking a lot about Cam Ward and the good and the bad and the landing spot. And you said beforehand like he is somewhere between QB10 and QB15 in Dynasty as soon as he gets drafted. Let's talk about the upside. Let's say everything goes right for Cam Ward. He reaches his potential. How high could you potentially see him climbing eventually? Not right away, but eventually in the Dynasty rankings.

[Heath Cummings]

So with the, and I know it's, it's a little bit unconventional but with what I consider to be a little bit of a limited upside as a rushing quarterback at the NFL level. I just want to make that clear. He's going to be fine. He's not going to be somebody like for example Drake May is going to have give you better rushing numbers from a fantasy standpoint every year. In my, my opinion it won't be close but with the ability to throw a lot of touchdown passes that I do think he has and potentially if he fits the right offense, I think we could see him all the way up at like QB6, QB7 range. And I actually like the fit a lot with the Titans personally and I'll tell you why I have higher expectations for their offensive line. I think moving Latham over to right tackle is the best thing they could have done and they got a solution to left tackle. And I trust in Bill Callahan like I know what he is as an offensive line coach. And I believe that the few guys you can get as an offensive line coach, him, Stoutland and a few of the other guys in the NFL make such a big difference in the outcomes of these games. And I want to see the. His, his son Callahan's offense with an actual big game Hunter like Ward. So the receivers worry me the how could they not, right? But I think they'll add talent at that position. And I'll say this about Camp Moore. That really stood out to me. He joined another system. He's joined a million systems, right? He went from Carnet Ward to Washington State and then he went to Miami. While guys like Sanders had multiple years to work with the receivers like Hunter and some of these other quarterbacks, he had one off season and he got right on the same page with them like this. The rapport looked like and their chemistry looked like they'd been playing together for three years. That shows me that he can mesh with any different group of receivers. And you look at some of the games they brought up, the Virginia Tech game, a lot of these games they were gotta have it moments for Cam Ward where, you know, stirred in whatever they're down because Miami's defense was so bad and he had to make all these comebacks and he just made those plays in those gotta have it moments. That leads me to believe that he can have early fantasy success. But I think the ceiling for me because of that rush, what I consider to be a little bit of a limited upside rushing would probably be in that QB6 to 8 range.

[Dan Schneier]

So earlier Dan had mentioned that 10 to 15 range. Dave and I one thing I'm doing this week is going through and updating my dynasty tiers and adding the top rookies to those tiers. I don't like adding rookies to the rankings before the draft because landing spot and draft capital matter way too much. But I can put them in tears. And so this will be just, just one word answers. Dave, I'm gonna put you on the spot. I put Cam ward in Tier 3. There's six quarterbacks ahead of this tier. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Jaden Daniels, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts. Those are the top two tiers in dynasty. Amongst these quarterbacks, you can just say Cam Ward or Caleb Williams.

[Dave Richard]

Caleb.

[Dan Schneier]

Caleb. Cam Ward or Brock Purdy.

[Dave Richard]

I'll still say Purdy.

[Dan Schneier]

Cam Ward or Jordan Love.

[Dave Richard]

Give me Cam Ward there.

[Dan Schneier]

Cam Ward or Kyler Murray.

[Dave Richard]

I'll take Cam Ward.

[Dan Schneier]

Cam Ward or Bo Nix.

[Dave Richard]

Next. I really like what I've seen from him. Oh, wait, that was more than one word.

[Dan Schneier]

Camward or Justin Herbert Herbert. Cam Ward or Drake May.

[Dave Richard]

May.

[Dan Schneier]

Cam Ward or C.J.

[Dave Richard]

Stroud.

[Dan Schneier]

I feel really, really good now about the tier that I put. Cam Ward.

[Heath Cummings]

Yeah.

[Dave Richard]

The fact that I really love both of these quarterbacks, the fact that I. I'm wincing at saying Ward over Stroud or Stroud over Ward says a lot. I. I think I'm still gonna take Stroud, but.

[Dan Schneier]

Okay.

[Dave Richard]

Damn, that's close.

[Dan Schneier]

So he is, for all three of us, firmly in the QB 10 to 15 range in terms of dynasty value. You can use that if you're approaching your rookie draft and you are or are not a Cam Ward believer as a way to maybe acquire that 101 pick that's going to do it for Cam Ward, who's likely the 101 of the NFL Draft. This next guy, we don't know where he's going. Dave's already told us he's not as excited about him. But Shador Sanders, the quarterback out of Colorado, has been talked about as early as the 102, and there's some people who feel like he may fall all the way outside of the top 10 picks. Dave, you wrote the draft profile. That's [e-mail] on Sanders. Let's hear about his strengths and weaknesses.

[Dave Richard]

Well, he's, he's an. He's definitely capable of being a good NFL quarterback. His upside is tied to improving his processing, his downfield accuracy, his rushing. But I don't view him as a force multiplier. That's the term that I use for when a quarterback makes other players around him better. And it's also vice versa. Wide receiver that can make his quarterbacks numbers better. In fact, that's how I felt like it worked at Colorado where Travis Hunter and frankly, some of his other wide receivers made Shador Sanders a better quarterback than he actually is. I'm concerned about his arm strength, his velocity, his velocity on his throws, the basic fundamentals, things like his footwork and, you know, poise in the pocket, his Technique, but that's all great. That's been trained. You would expect something like that from a guy who's the son of a Hall of Famer. His, his accuracy is a huge plus, but it's really only there on short throws and intermediate throws. Did a standard job of processing in college. Pre snap versus coverage and blitzes just wasn't consistent with it. He was basically in the same offense for seven years, coached by his father every single one of those years that goes back to high school, obviously. And he's, you know, I don't know if he's capable of doing more than running kind of the spread stuff that we've seen from Colorado where he's not checking out the entire field. Another thing that really bothers me about Shador is, first of all, he was in shotgun pretty much exclusively throughout all of his time playing football, college and high school anyway. And he would take like seven steps, drops from shotgun Heath. So you're already, you know, four yards from the line of scrimmage when you're in shotgun. He's going back another five years. He's adding five yards, maybe even seven yards to a ton of his plays. And maybe that's why he couldn't push the ball further than like 45 air yards downfield on the rare moments where he didn't take that drop back and his offensive line provided him protection. And we can talk about that offensive line in a minute. Clean pocket didn't take that drop back. He looked great. So that's what you need to see from him on a consistent basis and not this lackadaisical drifting that forces his throws to be even longer. He didn't have any major injury concerns. I, I think that he's, I, I, I, I just, I guess I'm just ultimately concerned about the, the, the power of his arm, the tendency of throwing, the lack of diversity in the offenses that he's been in, and whether or not he can be anything more than a game manager or a distributor. This is a quarterback that's being compared on a lot of places, myself included, to Geno Smith. And Geno Smith, as he developed, started to become ignorant of pass rush and making throws when the pressure's on him. And Shudder did plenty of that too. But Geno Smith probably has a stronger arm than Shador Sanders, and I don't know if Shador can ever get a bigger arm than that. I think he would benefit from having a year on the bench and then coming into an offense when the offensive line's strong, when the receiving core is good and he can be a good distributor of the football. That being said, it makes me nervous to be excited about him for fantasy unless he's got that great receiving core around him like we talked about. The stat that I've got is that 52.6% of his yards last year came after the catch. It's the highest rate of any quarterback prospect that's worth a damn in this draft class. So a lot of Travis Hunter and all the other receivers that are there, Jimmy Horn's one of them. The Westerham, I think is, how you say, Western Cam, I'm not exactly sure, but that dude was making plays. Colorado's receivers bailed him out a decent amount last year and made sure Sanders numbers look better than they actually were.

[Dan Schneier]

So it. It's interesting because I've kind of viewed it as the wide receivers helped Shador Sanders a lot. The offensive line hurt Shador Sanders a lot. Yeah, but that's very true. But I think. I think Dan, One of the. One of the more interesting things with him versus Ward is that we really don't know like the who or the where within the first round. I don't think this is going to be a guy who falls out of the first round, but let's just say hypothetically that Shador Sanders is going to be a top 15 pick. How much does it matter to you when we're evaluating him a month from now, if that's number two overall or if he falls to pick 15, it.

[Heath Cummings]

Makes a massive difference. We know this from just NFL history, right? Like Will Levis, a player who was considered maybe going in first round, ends up falling to the second round, top of it, and he's out already. They're not even going to move forward with him. But a player who's selected at number three overall, if he does go to the Giants there or two to the Browns, that's going to be a guy who gets a lot of opportunities to be successful depending on, obviously, the hierarchy. And I think you always do a great job of breaking this town, Heath. But like in the Giants case, it's a very weird scenario. If they draft Shador, they could still fire the GM and coach this coming off season. And then it's like, okay, maybe he doesn't have as long a leash in the Brown situation. It seems like they're keeping those guys in place so we would have a longer leash, which is obviously hard for us to predict, but very important. But as far as draft capital goes, it makes a massive difference because they're Going to hold on to a player a lot longer if they invest a lot to, to, to create, to draft that player.

[Dan Schneier]

I, I just assume that if the Giants. Maybe I should just say after. But if the Giants draft Sanders and have a terrible year and fire Brian Dable, then Chador Sanders is going to have the longest leash in the history of leashes because Deion Sanders is going to be the coach of the New York Giants. Like that plan, Dave, I, I wonder like you've. I know you're a little bit more negative than consensus on Sanders. There may have been a little bit more weaknesses than strengths in your evaluation. So I'm going to challenge you just a little bit. Is there any chance that he is someday a top 12 dynasty quarterback? And what does that path look like?

[Dave Richard]

Yeah, there, there's absolutely a chance that that happens. Let's say he goes to the Giants. The Giants bulk up their offensive line. The Giants replace the likes of Slayton or Wanda Robinson with another really nice receiver that forces defenses to not just double team Malik neighbors time after time. I, I think that in conjunction with. I don't want to say a better play caller than Brian Dable because I think Dable is still a good play caller, but maybe somebody who can develop the quarterbacks, you know, skills and bring them up to the level of the pro game where Sanders can be a better processor of coverage. That would encourage me, but I, I ultimately believe that Sanders isn't a guy that can get the job done on his own. We saw evidence time after time that Cam Ward was that guy. He led Miami to a ton of comeback victories last year because their defense stock. Their run game sometimes sputtered. Cam Ward was the reason why they won a lot of games. I don't know how many times we can go back and say Shador Sanders won the Buffaloes a lot of game and, and maybe sometimes he did. But it could have also been Hunter more so than, than Sanders, if you know what I'm saying. The, the catches that are over the middle that the receivers take all the way. And then just the last thing on Sanders, if, if you're questioning whether or not he's. He's good at processing, please find a way to watch his game against byu. It's his last college game. That's a defense that changed their blitzes before the snap. They rotated their coverages before the snap or right at the snap. I should say they made it hell on Shadur Sanders. And that was scary film for me to see. And, and that's what he's going to see more of every single week in the National Football League. So that's the, the progress he has to make. He's got to have a coach that really teaches him how to process better. But if he gets that and he's got a good line and he's got another receiver other than somebody of the caliber of neighbors, boom. You're talking about a guy who could be a top 10 to 12 fantasy QB.

[Heath Cummings]

And I have, I have a few thoughts on Sanders. I just want to get out before we move on to the next player. Heath it's interesting because I really am aligned in a lot of ways with Dave. I wanted to like Shador Sanders a lot because the Giants desperately need a quarterback and it just was difficult for me. I think, you know, watching this offense so extensively. It's Pat Shermer who's the offensive coordinator and I was reminded in a lot of ways of what I saw in 2019 when he worked with Daniel Jones. What he did a lot of the time was simplify the offense with half field high low reads. And so there are moments where Sanders will hit an in breaker behind the defense for 15 yards and looks like, wow, this guy processed the play really well and he threw with a lot of anticipation. And that's supposed to be Sanders's calling card, right? He's not overly athletic, he doesn't have a big arm. So he's supposed to win with his mind and with being an excellent anticipatory thrower and processor. But I know those plays because I watched them with Daniel Jones and they're not in my opinion examples of high level anticipation and processing. I, when I watch Cam Ward see actual examples of high level anticipation and processing creative throws. Sanders is more robotic in my opinion and how he plays the position at that school and they didn't ask a lot of him. Dave brought it up with his, you know, with the, with the stat, which was amazing. 56.6 of the yards came after the catch. It's why I don't like that completion percentage. So many screen throws, so many simple solutions that were good. They were smart by Shermer to run. But look, are they really an example of something we can translate to the NFL level? And I think the offensive line thing is a bit overblown because of what Dave said. The drifting in the pocket from Sanders is really, really, if he continues to do that, let's just say this, he will never make it in the NFL because when you drift like he does in the pocket backwards, you create different angles for the pass rushers that are really advantageous to them, it is a really bad thing. So as the offensive line gets killed, despite having a former offensive NFL offensive line coach coach that offensive line, who obviously is. That's not something every college program has. You can look at the tape and say, well, the times where he doesn't drift in the pocket, the offensive line holds up and the numbers back that up. And so that's what he has to be. He has to be a player, in my opinion, who does a better job of staying in the pocket, not drifting. And. And when he's able to hitch into his throws, I have no questions about his arm talent or arm strength. It's when he's forced to go off platform that he doesn't have the torque to generate the arm power specifically to his left. You'll see this on tape. There are a lot of balls that, when he's moving out of the pocket and throwing to his left, die down as they get to the receiver. They'll bounce the receiver on the outs. And that's something that really scares me about Sanders moving forward. It's something that I just can't get out of my head. And then this is the stat that we'll end it on this. But this is a stat that will always really scare me about Sanders. And because it was a stat that showed up for Daniel Jones during his time at Duke, and I really think it defined his career in a lot of ways. And it's the average air yards to the first down marker. Sanders was minus 1.8 average air yards to the first down marker. That ranked 132nd among 147 qualifying quarterbacks over the last two seasons. What does that tell me? That tells me that when he gets pressure and when he's blitzed, the solutions that he's finding are the check downs underneath. Relying on yards after the catch. That just doesn't work at the NFL level. I watched it with Jones, I watched it with other quarterbacks. You have to be able to stand in that pocket and throw down the field. It's not like there's no examples of this on tape, but it's the total outcome 132nd out of 147. If he can't run and he can't escape that way and he can't throw off platform, he has to be able to do a better job of finding solutions down the field when the blitz comes.

[Dan Schneier]

We're going to take a second break so Dan can catch his breath. We'll be right back with Jalen Milroe.

[Heath Cummings]

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[Dan Schneier]

A message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good.

[Dave Richard]

In this world, stop with Mint.

[Dan Schneier]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird.

[Dave Richard]

Okay, one judgment anyway.

[Heath Cummings]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Dan Schneier]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] so we did need for Dan to catch his breath because Dan wrote the Jaylen Milroe profile and this is the guy that I think is the most interesting player not at the position in the draft. Dan talked early on about his rushing ability, said he thought he was a better rusher in some ways than Lamar Jackson. Draft capital is going to matter so much to this player, Dan. But I'd like to we're going to be a little bit quicker moving forward. We're past kind of the consensus top two. Just talk about Jalen Milroe the passer and if there's any hope there.

[Heath Cummings]

Yeah, there is hope there. I mean he took a major step in my opinion moving forward. From 2023 to 2024 completed 65 of his passes against the SEC. Shore, I don't love to use completion percentage as a be all end all stat but when you watch the tape you can see him operating different types of concepts in breakers outbreakers where you could watch him actually progress through the read. It doesn't happen that often. It's not gonna. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that he is a multi read quarterback right now. There is a lot of one read on his tape and there is a lot of things that confuse him. I see him get confused by hot pressure, not understanding where his hot read is, blitzes coming from angles where he's not projecting it to come from. And he does look to find solutions with his Legs he needs. He's a long way to go as a processor and as a passer right now. I think he is inaccurate when it comes to the short stuff and the short to intermediate stuff. Actually in the vertical game, I think he's one of the more accurate deep ball passers in this class. And the numbers back that up. Specifically on 40 plus air yard throws where he was very, very good. And that's an aspect of his game that's interesting. What does this all sound like to me, Heath, And I'm not comparing these two players, but what does this all sound like? It sounds a lot like Jalen Hurts. It really.

[Dan Schneier]

I was, I was, you know, I'm gonna ask Dave about two other player comps, but Hertz is someone who you have been skeptical of really since he entered the league. And I think, I think still you would probably agree with the fact that you don't actually like the aesthetic of the way he plays the quarterback position or the Eagles offense. But could he, could he. Could he. If he gets into that type of situation, could he be successful?

[Heath Cummings]

Yes. And that's the be all. Like, when you say it like that, he's. It's so hard for me to project him getting into that type of situation. Right. The best offensive line in the NFL, the best offensive line coach, two elite receivers and the best running back in football. Like, that's crazy to think about him joining a system like that. But it leads me to believe that the draft capital won't be the be all, end all when it comes to Milro. Because Jalen Hurts didn't have great draft capital second round draft pick. They didn't trade up for him or anything like that. Unless I'm forgetting. So it's not impossible for Miro. I actually think that Milro has some aspects of his game that are better as a passer than Jalen Hurts. I think he drives the football better on the outbreaking throws in intermediate range. He drives the ball a little too much in the short game and I think that leads to a lot of inaccurate throws. And I think he's not as good a deep ball passer as Hertz because I will give Hertz credit. I think he's a great deep ball thrower. I think puts great touch and trajectory, but he's a good deep ball thrower. And honestly, I know it sounds crazy, but he's a better runner than Jalen Hurts. He's a better runner than so many guys. You watch his tape and it's phenomenal. As a runner, like, I think he could be one of the better running backs in this class if that was his position. Like if they just converted.

[Dan Schneier]

Wow. Dan Schneier says Jalen Milro should play running back.

[Heath Cummings]

Please, please don't put me.

[Dan Schneier]

We talked about Jalen Hurts, but I think that the two guys that people, rightly or wrongly, are going to be thinking about when they hear Jalen Milroe could be the best running back. What great. A great running back, but we've got some concerns about him as a passer. Are two guys who are just hanging on by their fingertips to starting quarterback jobs in the NFL. Justin Fields and Anthony Richton. Dave, I wonder how would you compare what you've seen from Milroe to Fields and Richardson?

[Dave Richard]

I think he's got the potential to be a better thrower than both of them. And I like the fact that Milroe has more experience than Richardson had when Richardson came out. And I, I think that I, I think this comes down to whether or not he can find a guy like Josh Allen found, like Jalen Hurts found, like Anthony Richardson is trying to find this offseason that can improve his processing and, and improve his accuracy in those short to intermediate errors. The deep ball throws are fun. You watch the highlights of him and he's amazing and the rushing is amazing. And that's what makes fantasy managers salivate all over their keyboards or phones or whatever's right under your mouth when you're reading or watching Milroe. It's. There are two huge FCs. Number one, if the measurements at the combine are accurate compared to the measurements at the Senior bowl, especially when it comes to his hand, that's a good thing. Two, if he can process. But I talked to an NFL executive who just. When I brought a Miller's name, he just shook his head and looked at me and he said, can't process. And I don't know if that means that that executive is just, you know, dropping Milro to round four of his draft process and you can't win with them because. Or if it just means, you know, that he's a project coming and so would it shock me if he follows the same type of trajectory of Jalen Hurst where Hertz was kind of a gadget player for much. Here.

[Dan Schneier]

I am. Sorry, Dave, but I'm gonna have to cut you off again. It's.

[Dave Richard]

Is it my auto or am I just happy?

[Dan Schneier]

Too much technical difficulties.

[Heath Cummings]

Your audio is going in and out. We can't hear you.

[Dan Schneier]

Dan. I, I wonder, like, Dave talked about the fact that some executives may see that processing as a reason to drop Milroe even further. I've kind of been assuming around 2 draft capital but do you think there's any possibility that the opposite happens and somebody says, you know what? I see the upside that Jalen Milroe has. Could he sneak into the first round so somebody gets that fifth year option if they end up winning it?

[Heath Cummings]

Yes. I 100 think that is a scenario that's in play. I don't think that's what will play out, but I think it is in play. And I want to make it clear why I am more excited about a player like this for Dynasty. Let's just look at it 30, 000 foot view for a second, Heath. Right. We just compared Sanders and Milro. Sanders has a much better chance, I think of starting more games in the NFL than Merrill. But what does that get you in Dynasty in fantasy football?

[Dan Schneier]

Well, it depends. I mean it's. Isn't it ultimately a super flex versus one QB conversation? Like it's much more likely. I think that Shadow Sanders is going to be a top 24 fantasy quarterback multiple, maybe even multiple seasons of top 24 play than Melro. But I think Melrose what infinitely more likely to have top 12 seasons.

[Heath Cummings]

Right. And I'm not sold that Sanders has that upside of having multiple top 24 seasons. I'm not sure how long his leash will actually be. No matter what the draft capital is though I don't think it's going to be that high because he may not work in the NFL. This is kind of goes back to my zero sum game at quarterback. I think either work or you don't work. And I personally think there might only be one quarterback who works in this class. So if I'm operating under that assumption, Heath, why would I not make a play for Milroe over Sanders or any of these types of quarterbacks? Howard, whatever it may be, even if they're not, they're quite there as a processor. Yet what they're offering me from a fantasy standpoint is not nearly enough to overcome the upside of what Milro can offer. But not just the upside. To me, it's the floor. Like I don't see a floor with Sanders and a lot of these guys. That's the biggest difference for me, I think at quarterback. In my evaluation for Dynasty as quarterbacks come into the NFL, I don't see the supposed floor because I'm not so sure how long you can last as an NFL quarterback. Either have it or you don't.

[Dan Schneier]

Well, I think the floor would obviously come from him being a top three pick. If, if, if he's a top three pick and Jalen Milroe gets drafted in the middle of round two, then there's a significant chance that Jalen Milro never goes into a week one as a starter for any for his own team. And Shador's likely as a top three pick to get two seasons. I mean we saw how bad Bryce Young was his rookie year. He still got a second year. He was terrible. Got benched for Andy Dalton and they went back to him again.

[Heath Cummings]

So like look at it like this, Heath and I'm sorry, I just want to make my point clear because I don't think I did a good job of it. So let's say you get that right? Like he's drafted early, which I don't think he will be. Let's say he will be and you get that. I still think going into any dynasty season you can get the Gardner Minchu or whoever is that veteran quarterback making starts for very cheap on your dynasty team and you're getting the same thing you're going to get from somebody like Sanders who can't run, doesn't have an explosive arm. Right? All these different things and so you're not paying capital to get the Gardner Minchu or whatever. So why do I care about getting the Sanders or whoever it may be in that regard?

[Dan Schneier]

Makes sense. I am very excited about Jalen Milro is the way I want to wrap up his conversation. I want to move to Jackson Dart and Dave, I guess I'd start with this and you can give your evaluation and hopefully we don't have any difficulties. But I think a lot of people are listening to this podcast and thinking why haven't they talked about Jackson Dart yet? He's the second best quarterback in this class.

[Dave Richard]

Well, we should he. He's a quarterback with good technique. He's got good footwork and poise as well. Very, very good ball placement on short and intermediate throws. He can throw with anticipation. He's got serviceable velocity. Did a decent job of processing in college, especially pre snap versus coverage and blitzes. Wasn't consistent with it. Must get a lot better in order to come through. I did have a lot of half field reads. I like that he's got experience in different offenses. That's a differentiator between him and Shooter Sanders. Shadur has basically been in the same offense. Dart has been in three different offenses and the most recent one they've added pro style concepts to it. Additionally, he's Younger than Shador Sanders by about a year. And he runs. Whereas Shadur Sanders, when he's under pressure, yeah, he keeps his eyes downfield and he'll belly right up to the line of scrimmage and he'll make a throw. Jackson Dart will run. And Dart is faster than Shadow Sanders. Dare I say that the Dart in Jackson Darts name is more about his rushing than it is his passing. He is a functional runner. It would be smart for an NFL team to lean on that. And that's obviously something that would be good for fantasy. Clearly not as big as Milroe, but someone who could get you two, 300 rushing yards, two or three touchdowns over the course of the season, that pads the numbers as a thrower. He doesn't have a cannon. And the other thing that really does bug me with.

[Dan Schneier]

I'm afraid that we just lost Dave for good. Dan, you and I can finish up Jackson Dart and Tyler Shuck. See, I said Tyler Shuck that time because I was not reading the rundown and I was not looking at the letters that are actually in his name. And I was able to just say what you guys told me to. The thing that kind of surprises me is how polarizing it seems Jackson Dart is. I don't really get what it is about his profile that is so polarizing.

[Heath Cummings]

I could tell you, in my opinion what makes his profile so polarizing. It's watching their tape and understanding their offensive scheme. Because as you watch through that tape and you watch the Ole Miss offense, it's very hard in my mind to decide how much of this can translate to the NFL and how much of this is Lane Kiffin being unbelievable at scheming up against college defenses, understanding the field side, understanding how to attack the defenses he's playing. And a lot of that, in my opinion, does belong my mind at least to credit to Lane Kiffin. Now he's still operating the play. Jackson Dart, he's making the throws. Jackson Tart has all the tools. That's what I like about Dart. He can run, he can throw, and he's big and he has the frame for it. The question remains though, like, how much of this is anticipation that's going to work the NFL level? How much is just Lane Kiffin scheming up things? And I think, you know, Nate Tice did a great job of breaking this down. His evaluation of Dart, they run a lot of the same concepts, they dress them up and it's very similar to what McVeigh does to find success at the NFL level. Right. He'll dress up a play that looks exactly like a run play, but it'll be a pass play and then he'll dress it up again and it looks exactly like the same play and it will be a run play. And they do that a lot in the passing game there. And I think Kiffin's one of the best, if not best play callers. He's the best player call I watched of all these quarterbacks, by far from a design standpoint. So that's the thing. And it's like as Dave said, a lot of half field reads, a lot of one read stuff. A lot of predict something pre snap and it's there post snap because Kiffin figured it out, figured out the defense. How do I know how that's going to translate to NFL? I don't know. He could be end up being a good processor, but that's a guessing game. There's also one other area of darts game that I didn't like. I felt like a lot of the times when there was pressure and he would break the pocket, his head went down. That's something I always look for a quarterback, but to be fair, that can be coached out of him. Jaden Daniels had that issue at lsu. When he broke pocket, his head was down. He became a rusher then immediately at the NFL level, immediately when he broke pocket he had his head up and he was finding solutions with his arm. So that can be coached. And I think that's not something I would view as long term concern. To me the biggest concern is just like how much of that was Kiffin and how much that was dart.

[Dan Schneier]

So it's, it's really, it's not so much about his skill set that's polarizing. It's just that it's hard to evaluate him because the system was too good.

[Heath Cummings]

It's the processing, it's the mind stuff. Because if you can't process NFL defenses, you have no chance regardless of what your skill set and physical tools are.

[Dan Schneier]

And no one knows that better than the guy who spent the last six years watching Daniel Jones. We haven't done the tier discussion for a while. I do have Dart and Milro in Tier 6 right now in the same tier. And I'm not. It's pretty low to be honest. So I just wonder like, would you take either of these guys over Michael Penx?

[Heath Cummings]

No.

[Dan Schneier]

Would you take either of these guys over Bryce Young?

[Heath Cummings]

No.

[Dan Schneier]

Okay. Would you take either of these guys as somebody off. You're on the clock, your turn to make a pick. You need a quarterback you could take one of these guys or somebody offers you Sam Darnold.

[Heath Cummings]

Darnold.

[Dan Schneier]

Okay. Geno Smith, Gino, Derek Carr.

[Heath Cummings]

I think I could go Dart and Miller over car.

[Dan Schneier]

Okay, so. But that's, that's kind of the range in Dynasty between Geno Smith and Derek Carr. Two guys who quite honestly may only have a year, year and a half left of starting themselves. Car may have half a year. But the fact is that as of right now, and we'll see what the draft capital shows, we don't really have any reason to expect that either Dart or Milroe are going to get a long term chance as a starting quarterback. They're going to have to develop to get the opportunity and then they're going to have to succeed whenever that opportunity presents itself. We are going to finish up with Tyler Schuck. Dave is back. And Dave, Dan was the guy who wanted us to, to put Chuck on this list as QB5. What you said he was also in your top five and maybe even number four. What, what are you guys so excited about? Tyler Shark.

[Dave Richard]

I, I like that he's coming from a pro style offense at Louisville. I think he can make good throws. He's got good footwork. I think he could. I think he's capable of playing now and not totally embarrassing himself in the NFL. He's not rattled by the pass rush. His arm strength is good. Not great. He's a touch thrower but he did try plenty of tight window throws. He can sidearm it to get a few more RPMs on it. Excellent processor. Really understands what he sees from a defense. Might be the best quarterback in the class. And I mean he's played college football for six years. I would expect that to be the case. I think he's the type of quarterback that a team would draft to be a backup but maybe become their answer to the quarterback position for the second half of the 2025 season, maybe even the 2026 season. New Orleans, I'm looking at you, Cleveland. I'm looking at you Miami. This guy might be decent in Miami. They probably won't look at him because they just got Zach Wilson. The biggest issue that he's got, sometimes he puts a lot of air under the ball when he throws. And he's older. He was born in 1999, which might not feel like so long ago for some of us, but that puts him at 26 years old when he gets going this season. And so that means that what happens if he's going to be a starter in two to three years, he's almost 30 already. So. Well, and it does take away some, some time off of his clock.

[Dan Schneier]

It's not, it's not even, especially at the quarterback position for me. Like, even if he comes to starter at 28, if he's good, I probably still get a decade out of him. Dan but what, what worries me, and I don't know how much, much when you're evaluating quarterbacks you care about this. What worries me is when a guy has so much success in college because he's four years older than everyone else he's playing against, it's a grown man playing against guys that are almost grown men. How much when you're evaluating a quarterback, do you care if he didn't have success until he was older than everybody else?

[Heath Cummings]

I care less about it at this position than others. For example, offensive line, defensive line. I think it makes a big difference among others. But, but it does matter because one of the best things about Tyler Schuck when you watch him on tape is, I mean Dave mentioned it's he can get through his progressions and he's not somebody like Sanders. You'll see try to escape a pocket and get run down by big tall defenders or Ward, try to escape sometimes escape, sometimes not. Who knows what will happen at the NFL level. He'll get to that check down, he gets to it fast and he'll get the ball. That's probably from playing a lot of football. But I will say this. Last year, Heath, I've amended my process a bit because I really discounted Pennix as a dynasty asset last year. Year didn't come my way with him in any of my dynasty drafts. Didn't target him and felt like, oh my God, that injury history, that age, what can I do? I look back at that now and I'm like, it's so stupid and it's so short sighted because no, I'm just.

[Dan Schneier]

Not sure that three or four games are enough to make that determination.

[Heath Cummings]

I'm still not based on that.

[Dan Schneier]

I'm still really low on Michael Pennock.

[Dave Richard]

That's not the reason why you should have been anti Pennix last year. You know, like that that's a factor. And Chuck is in the exact same boat. Older prospects definitely has an injury history. It's just, it's more to his shoulders than it is his knee. But there's you teams look at that and they say, all right, but if this guy can play, this is to your point, Heath, if this guy can play, we're gonna let him play. And it Was a lot easier to say that with Pennix than it is for Shuck because Pennix had a howitzer for an arm.

[Dan Schneier]

And I will say this like, we spent enough time last year talking about Pennix's age this time of year and through the draft process. And he. It was. I think it was correct because he was older than everyone else, House. And Tyler Schuck is older than Michael Pennix.

[Dave Richard]

Yeah.

[Heath Cummings]

And. And I will say this about the Shuck panic situation. It's like Penix is already starting now. And I agree that might not last. But I don't care as much now about his age because we're seeing what Russell, Wilson, Aaron, these guys play until their 30s, late late 30s or 40s. It's an extra five, 10 years, this position versus any other.

[Dan Schneier]

Right.

[Heath Cummings]

In that standpoint. So. But I will say this about Chuck real quick. Just give my evaluation on him. I actually like his arm talent considerably more than Dave's. I think just from listening to Dave, I really like his arm. While he doesn't have the Howitzer from the deep ball standpoint, the way he hits the short and intermediate range, it's accurate. It's the type of ball placement I'm looking for. And I can. And this is. I give credit to Matt Wallman, who'll be on the show Friday. He put this in my head and I think it's such a great way to break down quarterbacks and evaluate them. Is he throwing with general accuracy or pinpoint accuracy? And the pinpoint accuracy is what leads to the yards after the catch, the passing yards, the fantasy stats, the touchdowns. I think in the short and intermediate range, Tyler Schuck throws with more pinpoint accuracy than anyone in this class, to be completely honest. And I think that doesn't necessarily translate on the deep half, but he's really accurate on those quick. It's. It's a timing thing. So maybe that is just because he's 26, he's played a lot of college football and he's had a lot of reps. It might be. And that's something that I have to look for in my process and maybe discount. But man, is the timing good and the ball placement good on some of these concepts. And then it comes down to other things with Tyler Schuck that get me a little excited. He has the frame. I look for frame in a quarterback. I don't want a 62 quarterback like Sanders and Ward. I want 6 5. I think you can see over the offensive line. I think gives you a better chance. But he Also can move, he can run. Like, he actually has that kind of athleticism. And then Dave mentioned it best. It's the arm slot and the arm angles. He can change his arm angle, change the pace of the football, the velocity, the trajectory that helps him in the red zone. So tools wise, I really like Tyler Schuck. But then there's all the other drawbacks to him that we've discussed. So it's another big risky prospect for me. But I just like betting on tools. It's always going to be how I am as a quarterback evaluator. It's to a fault sometimes with quarterbacks. Like, I'm trying to think of some of the bigger misses and I've had plenty. And it works sometimes with, with like the Mahomes types, you just, just. I don't know. But I just think you need something to define you at the NFL level. You can't just be somebody who has good college stats but doesn't have the traits to translate.

[Dan Schneier]

Dan is a master transitioner. Dave, because we had a couple questions in the chat, I wanted to make sure we get to. I'll give you the first one, Dave. He was talking about tools and I will tell you, the chat loves Joe Milton and I think that dynasty managers in generally love the idea of Joe Milton. And so that. Dave, the question was, where would you put Joe Milton in this rookie class?

[Dave Richard]

Joe Milton, based on where he is right now?

[Dan Schneier]

Right now?

[Dave Richard]

Yeah. He's gonna be. He's gonna be ahead of shuck. He would be fifth. I would put him ahead of Shuck behind. Or Dart. Sanders, Milroe. That's right.

[Dan Schneier]

Agreed. Dan, I'm confused.

[Heath Cummings]

The question. Are we saying if he was in this draft class or as his stand.

[Dan Schneier]

No, we're saying no. Just what we know now.

[Dave Richard]

Oh, you're an NFL GM and it's round three. You can turn your round three pick into Joe Milton or you can draft a quarterback who's still there. Which quarterbacks would you draft?

[Heath Cummings]

Those are different questions.

[Dan Schneier]

Not even. No, not even the NFL question. Our YOLO dynasty league, sure. There are veterans mixed in. Joe Milton is on the waiver wire in dynasty leagues where you're in round four of our rookie draft and Jackson darts on the clock and you notice Joe Milton's also. Or Jackson Darts available and Joe Milton also is as well. Which one would you rather have?

[Heath Cummings]

For me, it's Jackson Dart, without a doubt. I. I don't like Joe Milton's dynasty profiles. It stands today. I don't see any motivation for the Patriots to trade him. So I think he'll just kind of be on that roster throughout his rookie contract and work as the QB2 and I don't see any way he supplants Drake May. So I think we'll run through that rookie contract and then what? Maybe he gets a chance. I doubt it at that point. So it's just not an investment that I'm interested in.

[Dave Richard]

If you like Joe Milton, it's because of the Cannon, right?

[Heath Cummings]

Tools wise I like him. It's not about that or I'm intrigued by him. I shouldn't say I like him, but right, right, right situation at all for.

[Dave Richard]

I don't see how he's like he's. He's big obviously and he can throw it very far. But so can Milro. And Melro can run a lot more than Milton. Milro I believe is younger than Milton. You can just draft Milroe and maybe even get a better prospect out of it. Milro could end up being. We might be done with the NFL draft and Milro might be the QB2.

[Dan Schneier]

Oh, on dynasty draft he goes in round one. I think that's probably where he'll be for me.

[Dave Richard]

Yes, probably so. But I still want to know where he's going, who's coaching him, what's the timeline, that type of thing.

[Dan Schneier]

Absolutely. You guys were fantastic. That will do it for our rookie quarterback preview. I think I said before, on Friday we've got Matt Waldman coming on for part one of the rookie running back preview. You do not want to miss that. We will talk to you on Friday.

[Heath Cummings]

Paramount Podcasts have no fear, March Madness is here. Who could take home the national title? Will it be UCLA or maybe Notre Dame? It's anyone's game and we need to Talk now has got you covered. I'm Alicia Jae, certified tall girl, social.

[Dan Schneier]

Media manager and reporter for we need to Talk.

[Dave Richard]

And I'm Ashley Nicole Moss, basketball analyst and CBS Sports host.

[Dan Schneier]

Together we're bringing you all the storylines that you need to know around women's.

[Heath Cummings]

Sports and women in sports. Each week on we need to Talk Now.

[Dan Schneier]

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