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TE Tiers: Trey McBride or Brock Bowers? Do We Like the Mid-Round TEs? (07/17 Fantasy Football Podcast)
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- [00:00]
Host 1
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Host 2
On whatsapp no one can see or hear your personal messages whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to whatsapp it's all just this so whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast your personal messages stay between you your friends and your family no one else not even us whatsapp message privately with.
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Host 3
Everyone this is fantasy football today from cbs sports what a play can you believe this no i can't it's time to dominate your fantasy league off to the races and he stays at his feet this is gonna go the distance now here's some combination of adam dave jamie and heath.
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Host 4
Welcome everybody to the tit and tears show here on fantasy football today it is thursday july seventeenth i'm tired guys i i could not sleep last night oh i slept terribly.
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Host 5
Oh really i went to bed early and just awful sleep well i was.
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Host 4
Going for like a a fantasy football joke here but we can get into your drama too oh it's awful i'm.
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Host 5
Sorry i know that this show's really about you and we're just kind of.
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Host 4
Your your co stars guys let me just say as a star of the show i had a lot of trouble sleeping last night because i just kept flip flopping bowers or mcbride bowers or mcbride mcbride or bowers finkel or einhorn and i just don't know i don't know yet i think i changed teams to team heath here i think i'm mcbride now but i don't know but maybe jamie could convince me to go i'm sorry i think i'm bowers now maybe jamie can convince me to go back to team jamie which is that.
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Host 6
Tells you what side you really want.
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Host 4
Oh no i don't know i mean it's just oh they were so close last year their metrics were almost identical but i have a question a lot of ways to look at it do.
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Host 6
You think adam practices his material on his family.
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Host 5
I think he probably practices in a room by himself i stand.
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Host 6
In front of a mirror and says oh i got a great flip flop joke let's see how this works yeah.
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Host 4
I was holding a flip flop in my hand while i did it if you think if you think i'm this bad at delivering and i still practice that is an insult like obviously this is my first run at it right now i should no no no listen.
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Host 6
The delivery is totally different because you know you started your joke and then he also chimed in so that might have thrown you off a little bit like the hey ali i i got this great joke what do you think if i start the show with i'm i'm really torn between these two tight ends like what if i you know say oh i'm flip flopping or i couldn't sleep i was torn you know and then she just rolls her eyes and does what she probably normally does and just ignores you but no i.
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Host 4
Don'T do that but maybe what did you think about the finkel einhorn joke in there because that was spontaneous but.
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Host 6
That'S not really like a flip flop.
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Host 4
Though no but it was a bowers mcbride but it was finkel einhorn was a football joke was like did you.
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Host 6
Did you laugh vicar ryan like that.
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Host 5
Would have been funny so is wait are you saying that that is a football movie but jerry maguire is not.
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Host 4
No it's not a football movie it has about as much it has about as much sports in it as jerry maguire and neither of them are football movies okay anyway welcome to the show we have a twitter poll up and we'll show it in a little bit before we do that and the twitter poll is mcbride or bowers see how the people are feeling about it what's your favorite tight end tier jamie one yeah yeah sorry favorite one to draft from two the kiddle tier.
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Host 6
No i i i mean look i i think our our theory that you came up with is or our strategy you came up with many years ago greater late is is fantastic you should have seen by the way heath when alfredo brought it up i don't know if it was about tight ends though was it.
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Host 4
I think it was i think it.
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Host 6
Was he said yeah greater late and.
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Host 4
That he didn't say greater late he didn't say that he he's he's he he didn't name that name it that he he didn't say the words great or late he he referenced the strategy i don't think he said great or late did he i thought he did say greater late oh man steam would have been coming out of my ears if he had said that i don't.
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Host 6
It wasn't a very favorable mention like.
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Host 4
Oh oh i thought you meant he took it like as as it was his no no no no i'm obviously he would have been doing that as.
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Host 5
A joke yeah okay so they in light of the last sixty seconds i think your open's looking pretty good i.
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Host 6
I tend to i don't know what tier it's in but i tend to get a lot of the nijoku i draft a lot of najoku and evan ingram those are those are the two titans i draft the most that would.
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Host 5
Be i know you didn't ask me adam but i i pretty much take bowers or mcbride or i take najoku.
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Host 4
Or kelsey the joke is tier three for jamie and ingram's tier four and i was going to ask you heath obviously all right so let's show that twitter poll who do you like better mcbride or bowers schaefer voted for mcbride two thirds though for bowers ten sixty seven votes i think i posted this yeah eleven o four pm last night and yeah man four thousand six hundred people viewed it and only one thousand voted weird right why would you just click the button yeah just just click it's not hard so bowers i bet.
- [06:29]
Host 5
You'D have more votes if you to put a see results in there maybe.
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Host 4
And then heath you would have voted bowers jamie mcbride and we'll talk about that a little bit later but they are in tier one and it's really a question of how early is too early for those guys and you know who do you which running backs which wide receivers do you draft ahead of them before we get into the tiers and some news and notes an update on naji on naji harris here's an update on draftathon we are up to three thousand eleven dollars tinyurl dot com two thousand twenty five fft tinyurl dot com twenty twenty five fft right now we want you to bid on those mailbag spots there are four left the questions will be read tomorrow fifty dollars get your question read on a mailbag we did sell out of the spots for the tuesday night mock draft which we will be live streaming but we'll have another one of those up next week for purchase for the following tuesday but anyway if you want your mailbag question read and answered on tomorrow's show tinyurl dot com slash twenty twenty five slash yeah tinywortl dot com two thousand twenty five fft sorry and fifty dollars all goes to saint jude meanwhile podcast awards we won it last year let's win it again this year go to podcastawards dot com app slash signup podcast awards dot com app slash signup put in a little bit of information takes about thirty seconds and then nominate fantasy football today in the sports category all right news and notes naji harris likely to start training camp on the non football injury list but not expected to be there for a long time so hopefully back sooner rather than later perhaps an opportunity for omarion hampton to stake some claim into that starting role but right now it doesn't seem like a long term thing for naji nor does it seem like that for mike williams who has some injury that he sustained in the spring wide receiver for the chargers he is expected to come off the pup list pretty soon second round picks only three of them have signed this is about guaranteed money two second round picks received fully guaranteed deals and every other second round pick probably probably wants it too or something close to it that's why it's been slow but a third one signed yesterday so the thinking might be that the floodgates will start opening and guys like rg rj harvey for example can be and all the other second round running backs and wide receivers that we care about can be signing their deal soon albert breer of sports illustrated thinks that stefan diggs is trending toward playing in week one he's recovering from a torn acl where do you think you could see diggs moving into in your rankings heath what do you think the highest you could see diggs would be so yeah let's.
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Host 5
Say that he starts training camp i've made this comment a lot about rashi rice but let's say that stefan diggs gets through a week of training camp and he's just doing the same thing that everyone else is and we're assuming he's going to play week one i would say it's somewhere i mentioned the mega tier that runs for me from basically wide receiver twenty one to thirty nine he'd be at the towards the.
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Host 4
Bottom of that okay and jamie's got him forty second dave has him thirty ninth right now jamie could you see moving digs up even further than forty.
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Host 6
Second a spot or two not very much i mean you're still talking about a thirty two year old receiver coming off an acl tear with a passing game that's got a lot of question marks so i don't want to get overexcited about the report that he's going to be ready week one i've kind of been going off that assumption when he showed up to minicamp you know and and and looked like he was trending in that direction so he was very good last year i think he's going to have a lot of solid moments but we know what this injury has typically been and for a guy that that's at his age there's still a lot of questions for me his.
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Host 5
And this is just my memory i could look it up and if dave was here he'd probably look it up.
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Host 4
I got it i'll look it up.
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Host 5
His his slot rate was extremely high.
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Host 4
Last year right yeah it was dave be like give me a give me one second i'll look it up that's.
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Host 5
The only other concern that i have is i don't think he's going to play in the slot near as much and can he still win at his age coming off this injury against number.
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Host 4
One corners forty six slot rate for stefan diggs last year that's very high the previous two years it was thirty one which is slotty it's he's in the slot but forty six is very.
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Host 6
High i will say this though heath because i know you keep mentioning it and i i agree it's it seems as if tomorrow douglas is going to be that guy i think if they realize that diggs is better for this offense there and we're talking about demario douglas versus let's say mac hollins and being hollins and williams on the outside for example like that's something you could.
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Host 4
Easily see happening cleveland in no rush to sign quinn sean judkins is another second round pick who hasn't signed and obviously the arrest last week the commander signed von miller and zach rosenbach blatt of the athletic says that josh reynolds seems pretty locked in as the jets number two wide receiver this is the second time we've had a report that may have even been from him but recently but josh reynolds as wide receiver too for the jets it's interesting maybe he can get off to a good start or something like that he's kind of an old receiver i might put.
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Host 5
Him in the scott fishbowl queue for.
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Host 4
Round nineteen there you go so a couple of comments here that new adam is disrespectful of other sleep habits that's nothing new heath had a nightmare in which he was served baked burgers and dino chicken nuggets yeah so what's what happened with you last night why couldn't you sleep was it mcbride and bowers.
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Host 5
I it was not no i don't have any good reason for it i'm getting old and some nights you just don't sleep very well toss and turn.
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Host 4
Yeah it happens you still turn the pillow over yeah the cool side i don't do that also one or two pillows for you guys two one two is weird two is weird why do you need two pillows i don't like it all right jamie's tears he said he likes tier two that's george kittle guess who's in tier one it's the top two guys it's mcbride and bowers all right it's easy to put them in tier one i think it's easy to put kittle in tier two it's difficult to say when should mcbride and bowers be taken so jamie when is it when does it go one of the bells go off for you all right it's tight end time when would.
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Host 6
I do it or when do i.
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Host 4
Think it's going to happen when should when would you recommend doing that i.
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Host 6
Would look for both toward the back end of round two that is not going to happen though based on almost every draft i've seen bowers typically comes off the board middle of round two mcbride tends to slide to that spot i just think like you you said something i don't remember when it was maybe it was the juwan jennings conversation we were talking about kittle that the difference between the top two guys and kittle based on the points per game last year and you were saying i think you're you're i'm going to paraphrase but that if those two guys are going to be drafted in round one or round two and kittle's not going to go till round three round four like based on kittle's performance last year and maybe the bump that he gets without debo there and iu coming off the pop list that they have to be significantly better than kittle and that made me sort of reevaluate this a little bit that i don't know if they're going to be that significantly better than kittle because last year was in some cases maybe the best that we'll see and i do think that mcbride's going to get more touchdown opportunities i'm a little concerned about bowers just because of the changes in the offense not to a degree that i'm i'm scared of him to draft him i wouldn't draft him aside as he's going in adp but i think that fifteen to sixteen points per game which is what they were last year they were just you know a little shy of sixteen and kittle was just you know decimal points better than them i don't see that bump up to where kelsey was at you know twenty points per game eighteen points per game i think that's just a huge ask in their respective offenses so i put both guys at the start of round three whereas where i have them and again i don't think i'll be getting bowers there and kittle is back into round three round.
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Host 5
Four for me i i think the interesting thing like thinking less looking at all three of these guys as if they're just what they've been in terms of their numbers and what they could be when i look at it i see there's we've talked about it a ton there's probably positive touchdown regression coming for trey mcbride if not he's going to have one of the lowest touchdown rates that anyone's ever had in their entire career because that was insane last year he should score more touchdowns we shouldn't be surprised if he scores a little more in terms of fantasy points because of that i bowers touchdown regression is less obvious but i still think it likely comes because he had a very very low touchdown rate he has a better offensive coordinator whose teams generally score more touchdowns and he has a significant quarterback upgrade with kittle i think you could look at the situation with iuk's question marks it helped and debo being gone and think his targets could go up at the same time he's thirty one he'll turn thirty two in the middle of the season and last year was his best reception total since twenty nineteen his best yardage total since twenty eighteen and the second best touchdown total of his career his efficiency in terms of yards per target was the best of his career his catch rate was his best since twenty twenty like that was george kittle just had one of his best seasons at thirty and thirty one years old and i so when i in my projections process i actually project a little bit of negative regression in terms of efficiency for kittle and that's where i get a little bit bigger gap i i i think i've got mcbride similar to what he did last year which puts him at the end of round two for me i have bowers improving on what he did last year because of those surroundings that have gotten better and i have kittle a little worse than last year.
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Host 4
It'S funny how you think the surroundings have gotten better and i think jamie would make the case for bowers that the surroundings have gotten worse probably because of pass volume i will find out if i am right about that take after we take a commercial break we'll get jamie's thoughts on that did things actually get worse for brock bowers and maybe this is this is how people could determine who they like bowers or mcbride it's certainly a big part of it for me i also have a cautionary tale about george kittle and those targets and we'll be right back after this to talk about tiers one and two some more on fft ryan reynolds here from mint mobile with the price of just about everything going up we thought we'd bring our prices down so to help us we brought in a reverse auctioneer which is apparently a thing.
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Host 6
Back.
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Host 4
So jamie am i right in saying that you think the situation got worse for brock bowers because they were fourth in pass attempts last year i.
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Host 6
Don'T want to use the word worse because i think there's something he said which kind of gets overlooked a little bit the quarterback situation got better the coaching got better you know and so those things matter but yes in terms of how are things going to be distributed the biggest thing for me is not necessarily the you said that is the biggest thing is the is the run game you know so the pass volume is going to come down and if the run game is successful especially you know hoping for more touchdowns for bowers i think eight is probably a safe number he scored five last year so can he get to eight i i would be very surprised if he's not close to that so five to eight is probably the range i would go more toward the optimistic side and say that's you know eight is is a good number i just don't see the targets being the same and he's going to be a monster look he's whenever you see rookie seasons like this this was so disappointing about kyle pitts for example you see rookie seasons like this i'm not talking about just titans just you know pass catchers you tend to see them build off of it especially when you're an elite prospect and i don't think he's going to disappear by any stretch look jack besh and thornton and whatever else they have you know jacoby meyer still being there like those guys aren't you know taking targets away from brock bowers to a significant margin but they are better as a group around him based on what they had a year ago you know you lose devonte adams and it was trey thornton and just a bunch of guys so if these rookies can be somewhat of significant playmakers it's just a matter of the volume and again when when i say i'm downgrading i'm they're back to back still i i don't think that what we saw last year is going to be that much difference you know from a decimal point standpoint that that's how different these guys were it's just a matter of what's what's the ceiling for both of them and so yes like he said about mcbride it'd be very surprising if a guy that was top three in red zone opportunities at his position twenty one red zone targets last year doesn't score more touchdowns they made such such an effort last year to do that i i think that carries over to some degree not clearly the the emphasis on it because he didn't have one but i do think that they do a better job of getting him in the end zone so he's probably like a five touchdown guy like i don't think you were looking at a ten touchdown guy for mcbride that would be amazing i think he that's the one situation where you could say okay who can get to those kittle numbers i think if mcbride gets ten touchdowns on top of the numbers that he's getting because his offense didn't really change very much like that could that could shatter the position potentially so yeah i think mcbride ceiling to me this year is a little bit higher bowers is right behind him and then the only thing i'll disagree with on on kittle is that we've seen this before we've seen this narrative before it's played out whenever somebody's been missing from this offense his numbers have just been that much better i don't have in front of me i can look it up if you want to but there's no debo there's potentially no iuk we don't know the jennings situation right now this is a guy that brock purdy and kyle shanahan lean on when these situations arise and now we're here again you know so yes mccaffrey's back and you know pierce hall may be a big part of this and all these things and yet his efficiency may may come down a bit but what if the targets go up well what if we get more chances for him.
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Host 4
So the thing is with kittle i mean he's the most efficient tight end in football basically right and his adot has even gone up the last couple of years and he's still heath you mentioned his catch rate usually adot goes up catch rate goes down well his catch rate and his yak still incredible his explosive play rate has been the highest it's been in two years and i think purdy has a lot to do with that purdy looks for him in the end zone a little bit more so the touchdowns have been a little bit better but i do want to say with kittle it's like yeah iuk is is going to probably start on puppy debo is gone but mccaffrey is back and mccaffrey is an eighty target guy the last time we saw him play a healthy season with san francisco and kittle was like a ninety target guy that year so in the last in the last five games well okay the last ten weeks of twenty twenty two after the mccaffrey trade mccaffrey plays game against kansas city he barely plays ten weeks after that there were five games where mccaffrey ayuk debo and kittle were all healthy kittle's target share was less than fourteen percent then in twenty twenty three he had a good year but you know it was one of the worst years of his career but still still good but it was what it's like thirteen how many ppr fantasy points per game for kittle that year in the thirteen range but look.
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Host 6
At the end of the season when purdy took over no that was a.
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Host 4
Pert year that was twenty three that was twenty twenty three he was he was tight end seven per game he had ninety targets in sixteen games and they threw for four thousand six hundred yards and thirty three touchdowns but you had ayuk with one hundred five targets kiddo with ninety debo with eighty nine mccaffrey with eighty three so i just.
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Host 5
Yeah go ahead i don't think and this may end up being wrong but i don't think kit there's any reason to really look at kittle situation this year in terms of his target competition is different from last year i well.
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Host 4
Mccaffrey though is a big deal i'm.
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Host 5
Saying it all i think it all balances out yeah seven games of ayuk you got eleven games of pure soul debo played fifteen games but only had eighty one targets yeah and macafee only played four so i think mccaffrey likely takes the eighty one targets that debo had ayuk probably plays about as much as he did last year like i think it's just a similar situation to what it was last year and you got ninety targets and george kittle when he's got ninety four targets is definitely good enough to be the top three.
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Host 4
Tight end yeah oh yeah and then you've got but you do have jennings and pierce also right i just wanted to when everyone was healthy in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three we were looking at a target problem for george kittle and we went into last year i went into last year going this guy's declined in points per game three straight years and i was a little nervous about him because he's getting up there in age still a great tight end i didn't think he was going to get a lot of targets by the way two years ago they were last in the nfl in pass attempts when they had a healthy mccaffrey so i you know i think there are red flags for kittle but i still draft him all the time in round four because he's george kittle and he does not need a lot of targets however in terms of tiers in full ppr you know mcbride and bowers what are your projections he they should have a significant edge and catches over kittle i would think oh yeah well.
- [24:08]
Host 5
And i'm not really projecting a decrease and you should do your chip kelly research after i say this but because it's extensive it's wonderful i have kittle at ninety seven targets so three more than he had last year but it's not i mean it's projecting a full season so it's a little lower and i've got bowers mcbride still at one.
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Host 4
Hundred fifty okay so chip kelly is has a great track record i think twenty thirteen through twenty sixteen he was a head coach he took over an eagles team that was twenty fifth in points per game in twenty twelve they had pretty similar personnel and they went up to second in points per game they were very run heavy the first year michael vick and nick foles were their quarterbacks vick played seven games twenty fourteen the eagles were sixth in points per game with mark sanchez playing nine games and nick foles in eight games and it was a sixteen game season there's some overlap there twenty fifteen they were eighteenth in points per game with mostly sam bradford their best receivers were jordan matthews and zach ertz demarco murray was their running back he got hurt ryan matthews played too they had bad players they were eighteenth in points per game they were sixth and past attempts per game twenty twenty or twenty sixteen he takes over the forty nine ers they were dead last in scoring the year before they increased to twenty third in points per game their leading receiver was jeremy curley their quarterbacks were colin kaepernick for twelve games and blaine gabbard for six games so he does have a little bit of run heaviness his teams his four teams were twenty seventh in past attempts per game then fifth then sixth then twenty ninth and he never had a good quarterback never had a good passer really like maybe vick was good for those seven games i don't know that year but i think that's an exceptional track record big improvement in philadelphia big improvement in san francisco in terms of points per game and you know you could argue geno smith is the best passer that he's had in the nfl so there's that let me just say why i swapped to bowers from mcbride and i think this is important when we talk about tears you're looking at one hundred fifty targets for heath for these guys jamie thinks the targets are going down for bowers what do you think give me targets for bowers and mcbride jamie what do you think.
- [26:25]
Host 6
What was mcbride's targets last.
- [26:26]
Host 4
Year it was like one hundred and forty seven was his pace or something.
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Host 6
I was gonna say like one hundred and forty five to one hundred thirty.
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Host 4
Five okay so in the one hundred forty five ish range maybe for these you think same i think both both.
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Host 5
Were over one hundred fifty in terms of pace mcbride had one hundred forty seven in sixteen games he was one.
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Host 4
Hundred fifty three and okay so so he's in the one hundred fifty range jamie's in the one hundred forty to one hundred forty five range is that.
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Host 6
Fair yeah i would say one hundred forty five for mcbride like one hundred thirty for bowers one hundred and thirty.
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Host 4
For bowers okay that's big that's significant they so far have not been anything like kelsey and kittle in terms of efficiency yards per target yards per catch yards per out run and that's i think what i was what you were referring to is something i said in a previous show i think that's what i was saying if people are drafting mcbride and bowers based on what they did last year and they're drafting them in the second round i do think they need to do better than they did last year and it could be just as simple as touchdowns but i don't think fifteen point five ppr fantasy points per game in my opinion is worth a second round pick certainly not ahead of a guy like aj brown or derrick henry or something like that maybe you could say ahead of lad mcconkey or chase brown or something like that but i think they need to be better i am more hopeful that bowers can can increase his efficiency because he did that as a rookie whereas mcbride it's your he's been in the league three years he's been a starting tight end for a year and a half i think he might be what he is i think bowers is a better athlete and could average more yards per catch more yards per target more yards per out run and that's why i think i'm team bowers now over mcbride heath what do you think about.
- [28:05]
Host 5
That logic yeah i am more optimistic that bowers can produce elite efficiency at some point in his career and i i think that there's more i think the chip kelly geno smith thing makes it more likely that his efficiency increases this year the other thing we haven't talked about yet we probably all have different opinions on marvin harrison yeah but i think there's a bigger risk that marvin harrison cuts into trey mcbride's target share this year than any of the additions in las vegas yeah i'd agree.
- [28:37]
Host 6
With that but i i also would say that the run game is going to be significantly better for the raiders and that's not changing for the cardinals.
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Host 4
Yeah that was another reason why i couldn't sleep because i said if marvin harrison has a really good year does that mean that trey mcbride gets worse or does that mean that kyler murray is the most underrated quarterback in fantasy right now right you know the thing you say about jared goff we like all his players but we are drafting golf as qb eighteen well we're drafting kyler as like qb twelve ish he rushes for five hundred yards every year says he wants to run more he's got a history of being like a on pace for four thousand five hundred passing yards he might be a steal i know it's not not part of the tight end tiers but do you guys think do you think marvin harrison can have a big year finish as a top twelve tight end and trey mcbride can warrant a pick at the two three turn let's say yes not.
- [29:30]
Host 5
If kyler murray runs more okay it's.
- [29:33]
Host 6
Going to be if kyler is going to take that leap it's going to be because of the touchdowns because if if harrison's getting from let's say eight to ten and mcbride's going let's say from two to six like that's where.
- [29:43]
Host 4
He benefits okay all right so that's that's tiers one and two unless there's anything you guys want to say about kittle that we haven't covered okay so that's tiers one and tiers two and tier two sorry that's tiers one and two let's move on to tiers three and four and tier three has sam laporta david najoku travis kelsey and tj hawkinson tier four has evan ingram and mark andrews those guys could not be more different polar opposites as players as fantasy options ingram and andrews but tier three is laporta najoku kelsey and hawkinson tier four is ingram and andrews jamie what's the difference between the port and najoku kelsey hawkinson and ingerman andrews well.
- [30:34]
Host 6
There are more questions with ingram and andrews obviously you know with ingram it's the change of teams and how will he perform in sean payton's offense which could be great could be absolutely fantastic for him and bonix could make him you know easily second on the team in targets and the joker role that we keep hearing about could be for ingram and again he's had you know the opportunities to you know show himself and and has proven to be successful at times throughout his career you know early with the giants first year with jacksonville i think he'll be a very solid fantasy tight end but i don't think he has the same upside as the guys in tier three and the thing about tier three is this is the the group of tight ends i think that typically sways how this position goes right these are the group of guys the mid round tight ends that we always say oh they could be awesome and then they let us down more times than not i feel more comfortable about this group maybe so than any other tight ends in this range that we've talked about before you know kelsey was so bad last year and still was twelve point two ppr points per game the joku when he's had you know a capable quarterback and that's saying something because we're talking about joe flacco and jameis winston he's been potentially a superstar hawkinson pre acl was fantastic can he get back to that level and obviously laporta you know depending on how you feel about the detroit offense is going to probably sway how you feel about him in terms of where he goes in this tier but i'd be shocked if he's not the fourth tight end off the board and i think he's going to pick off where he pick up where he ended last year as opposed to the way he started where he was much more of a factor in the red zone so for me those guys are all capable top five caliber titans the guys in.
- [32:05]
Host 5
Two three i have found the point where jamie and i have the most disagreement it's the tight end position after the first three tiers i agree completely i i'm lower on laporta but he's definitely still in that same tier i think everything he said about those guys is right what i would say is if i don't get a tier three guy i'm probably just not i'm definitely not taking a tight end before round.
- [32:29]
Host 4
Ten tier three for jamie is laporta najoku kelsey and hawkinson i i i i agree with that oh that's your tier three too that's your two also.
- [32:39]
Host 5
Okay what i'm saying is after that and mostly it's just i've probably talked enough about how much i don't like evan ingram i don't think so you don't think so no okay he's like one of the least efficient plays in football has been targeting evan ingram he was absolutely awful last year yeah and the year before he was very good because of a high target volume but we talked about that all last off season how that wasn't going to happen again because it was only because the other the wide receivers got hurt and it was doug peterson's offense which he's not in anymore one of the things i've talked about is how rare it is to have a team that throws to their running backs a lot and their tight ends a lot and for sean payton's either going to have to change a lot and not target the running backs as much for evan ingram to be good because he's he's not the type of guy that is going to do what george kittle does or even close is he calling right now he needs eight targets per game to be a low end tight end one.
- [33:53]
Host 4
Okay he and you know he and najoku actually had very similar seasons they were both awful nijoku needs to bet i mean can we talk about how bad najoku's numbers were last year holy cow let me get his seventeen pace seventeen game pace one hundred and fifty targets seven hundred and eighty yards so these two guys ingerman najoku were two of the worst in football and so were kelsey and ferguson those are four guys who just had horrible stats for for najoku and ingram it was a very low yak and that's a stat that tends to bounce back unless the.
- [34:31]
Host 5
Adot changes go ahead the difference is that that has not been the case for david najoku's almost entire career yeah and that has been the case for ingrams and ingrams two years older and ingrams going to a new team where the target share is not as likely to continue as it does for najoku.
- [34:53]
Host 4
So when you look at tier three jamie laporta najoku kelsey and hawkinson would you say you're excited to draft this tier because let me tell you something last year i i think maybe tier three may have been something like i'm looking at fantasy pro's adp kincaid kittle pitts ingram they were tied tight it's always this group right well we got we've got three horrible busts in there and george kittle but you said i think you said you're more excited or you feel better about this group than you have in years past so laporta najoku kelsey hawkinson you feel good about.
- [35:31]
Host 6
This group this has typically been the range where we start to prop up guys like kincaid and pittsburgh and oj howard and you know the guys that were coming off of either strong finishes or decent seasons the year before and we're hoping that they're going to take that next step but they're not as good as the guys that are typically going ahead of them which has always been kelsey or andrews or jimmy graham or those type of guys you know so it's it's usually been an unproven group these guys really are proven you know and even laporta going into year three like you know what you're getting at this point at least i hope touchdown dependent guy and a very prolific offense so i think the really the the two that scare me the most would be najoku and hawkinson and najoku is mostly because of the quarterback situation because again if you say that they're going away from flacco or he doesn't start the season as the starter i'm going to be a little bit more concerned now it may work out fine because of stefanski's offense and sanders may lean on him or gabriel may lean on him wherever the quarterback is you know can he pick it up but similar jerry judy like i'm very much more inclined to be excited about david najoku if it's joe flacco and hawkinson we just don't know where he's at from his recovery because he had some good moments when he came back last year it just wasn't great and now you have a quarterback change he could benefit if there's a suspension for jordan addison he could really struggle if addison's there and just jefferson's doing what he does so those two guys make me the most concerned of that group but not to the fact that i'm going to draft ingram or andrews ahead of them i just think like those are the two situations that make me the.
- [37:00]
Host 5
Most worried and i i'll do some more research on this maybe later in the off season but i think najoku's been better with basically every quarterback he's played with besides desean watson like even the first the first year that watson was there any other backup was better and to the to the to the flacco point it's just worth remembering i don't know how many games we'll get of joe flacco i hope it's a lot but he in five games with him two years ago he averaged eighteen.
- [37:32]
Host 6
Fantasy points per game insane yeah that's the that's the plus clearly and he's.
- [37:37]
Host 4
Going on football guys david najoku is going ninety second in fantasy pros he's not even a top one hundred pick so we're not talking about him as a sixth round pick seventh round pick or anything david najoku here so that's terrific value whereas travis kelsey is sixty ninth on fan on football guys and he is seventy seventy eighth on fantasy pros so this is the point of tears right you you if these four guys are in the same tier and one of them's going one hundredth and sam laporta is going in the sixties fifty third on football guys sixty third or sixty fifth on fantasy pros makes david a joker like a pretty damn good value and then you've got the.
- [38:23]
Host 6
Best value of any position you know if again he gets flacco for ten plus games thirteen plus games like there's huge huge upside he just gave you the numbers like we're talking about kelsey like numbers in his prime yeah but.
- [38:37]
Host 4
However if he gets pickett or a.
- [38:42]
Host 6
Rookie but again to heat point though it may not be a disaster like it may not be flacco's heights or ceiling but it still could be thirteen fourteen points per game and that's much better of the value where you're getting i mean we're talking about kittle leading the position last year at just under sixteen points per game and you tell me i'm getting david najoku twelve to fourteen points per game somewhere in there without joe flacco again it's a big ask but still stefanski's offense the other concern i have a little bit small with najoku is does harold fanon yeah take a little bit of work away a little bit of production away because look the the receiving core we've talked about enough like judy's performance then last season was fantastic can you do it again we'll find out cedric tillman three games of just amazing production but that's the best he's ever done in his career like we could see a lot of twelve personnel and both tight ends getting the the target chair but the touchdowns going to fanon or or you know key plays going to fan and that we see maybe a little bit of a problem for for najoku just based on what he's had to deal.
- [39:39]
Host 4
With in the past boy do i see arrowhead red colored flags for travis kelsey i mean thirty six in october was tight end seven per game and full ppr last year tight and twelve per game in non ppr his yak has tanked he was one of four tight ends that had just awful metrics najoku kelsey ingram and jake ferguson they each ranked twenty seventh or lower among thirty one tight ends with fifty or more targets in both yards per target and yards per catch i mean it just seems so obvious what's happening here and in three games with rasheed rice he had twelve targets rasheed rice i think had twenty nine or something like that xavier worthy those were the first three games of his career marquis brown didn't even play in the in those three games i don't know how i i don't know how you couldn't be worried about travis kelce i think you could be optimistic about him too because last year when patrick mahomes was good in nine regular season games in which he threw for two hundred and fifty more yards travis kelsey averaged sixteen point two fantasy points per game in ppr which would have made him tight end one in seven games in which mahomes threw for fewer than two hundred fifty yards he was awful in those games kelsey averaged seven ppr fantasy points per game mahomes averaged one hundred ninety yards per game in those so i get the optimism but my god i don't know that there's a player who who has more downside than travis kelsey in my opinion because last year was very concerning when rice was on the field.
- [41:11]
Host 5
He has the most downside in tier three but he's he's recommitted to his body right jamie he's he's one hundred.
- [41:17]
Host 4
Eighty five pounds yeah no i think.
- [41:21]
Host 6
The the things that i look at with kelsey it's four numbers he was third in receptions and receiving yards at the position last year or no third in targets and receptions last year fifth in receiving yards and scored three touchdowns yep so where did the receptions and targets go where do the receiving yards go north or south and you know you mentioned adam there's maybe as much competition for targets than he's ever had to deal with before especially as he's getting older i do think we're going to see a better offense and that could lead to him getting back to that eight plus touchdown range and if that happens and let's say he's now fifth in targets and fifth in receptions and eighth and receiving yards it sort of balances itself out a little bit and so clearly thirty six is not the age you want to see after what we've seen from him how he's been moving the last couple of years it's not good but now he may get open a little bit more defenses can't focus on him as much because of all these guys and so it's going to be a little fascinating you know i think when you're drafting kelsey i took him in our pick by pick series not to keep referencing this because it's just us drafting so it's hard to say but like round eight i'll do that all day long if travis kelsey is listening to round seven's like where i'm buying in i think round six is a good range to start to consider them but but just.
- [42:36]
Host 4
For this tears discussion right it does it make more sense to take travis kelsey in round seven around eight or david najoku or even evan ingram in round nine or ten or mark andrews.
- [42:47]
Host 6
I mean i would i was obviously taking the joker because i haven't ranked higher so yes if i can guarantee myself that i'm waiting out najoku in that in the draft that i talked about i think it was heath took najoku before kelsey was off the board so you know that's his rankings as well i believe you know so you're you're taking again knowing your league that's the biggest thing so i i didn't think i was going to get najoku in instead of kelsey but the longer he sits on the board yes there's more downside than upside but like was that the worst season we've seen from kelsey and still twelve plus ppr points per game like that's hard to find.
- [43:21]
Host 4
I know but rice only played three games i keep going back i get.
- [43:25]
Host 6
Everything i don't disagree at all but yeah if if we were expecting typical kelsey he's not waiting that long he's.
- [43:33]
Host 4
Not in this tier all right i gotta wrap it up with this mark andrews is in tier four for jamie sixty nine targets in seventeen games last year caught ninety percent of his end zone targets which is absurd by comparison trey mcbride has caught i think twenty percent of his end zone targets in his career four out of sixteen or three out of fifteen yeah so so andrews is just an interesting player he's elite efficient you know let me take a break heath we'll come back and finish up with mark andrews one of the most efficient tight ends in football needs more targets we'll be right back.
- [44:07]
Host 3
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- [44:36]
G
Pay never you found your ultimate nfl draft destination get ready for with the first pick part of the cbs sports podcast network join hosts ryan wilson and rand carthon twice a week for the most insightful draft analysis out there over the next several weeks we're diving deep into the biggest questions facing all thirty two nfl teams scouting the top college prospects ahead of the twenty twenty six nfl draft and giving you front office insights you won't find anywhere else download and follow with the first pick on apple podcasts spotify and anywhere podcasts are.
- [45:07]
Host 4
Found heath what do you think about mark andrews he's in tier four for.
- [45:11]
Host 5
Jamie i think it's it's all in how you want to frame it because i think it's very very similar to travis kelsey in a complete opposite way kelsey had all of the targets last year and still had the catches and we know he has elite upside didn't score any touchdowns the efficiency was awful andrews scored all the touchdowns and had great efficiency but the target share kind of like with laporta too is terrifying if mark andrews just has a good touchdown rate next year of like six percent which is still very good he's going to be dropped yeah if the target stay the same right and i it's hard for me to envision a situation unless derrick henry gets hurt or the ravens defense just has one of those years where five like the lions in the middle of the year last year i don't see the past volume ballooning for baltimore and so you just have to count on not just great efficiency which andrews has almost always given us but insanely good efficiency that we never expect anyone to repeat all right.
- [46:24]
Host 4
Let'S go to tiers five and six in jamie's tight end tiers as we are moving into the double digit rounds now in average draft position tight end five is the two sorry tier five is the two rookies colston loveland and tyler warren and then tier six are our fallback options and not bad ones tucker craft dalton kincaid dallas goddard jake ferguson and zach ertz we'll talk about tier six in a moment here but let's take a look at tier five loveland and warren thoughts jamie huge upside.
- [46:56]
Host 6
And a lot of questions so you know loveland number ten overall pick in the nfl draft obviously going to a team and a coach that is going to i think rely on him quite a bit but it's the same conversation we have about all the bears pass catchers like who is going to be the primary options in this offense offense and the fact that loveland i know he says he's fine but dealing with a shoulder injury this off season for a guy that you know dealt through the whole draft process so i'm not mistaken a little bit banged up as well so will he come in and command targets right away i hope so and there's a lot to love about what ben johnson did with sam laporta as a rookie in somewhat of a crowded receiving core made him a red zone threat but now you're asking him to do that caleb williams to be you know much better and still dj moore romo dunesday luther burden all get opportunities so there's the you know sort of things that's weighing him down tyler warren clearly another guy number fourteen overall pick going to a team that i think will lean on him quite a bit but you have quarterback concerns and there's still michael pittman and josh downs or josh downs michael pittman however you want to you know look at those two guys on a very very run heavy offense so i think anybody expecting brock bowers production from those two guys is probably asking way way too much and very unrealistic but can they be productive in their rookie campaigns i think you want to draft two tight ends if you're taking these guys and so tier five and tier six you can take two guys from this group and i think you'll get by start the guy in tier six earlier and then if the rookie starts to produce you have a trade chip or you know two very good players on your team but i think looking at loveland and warren as immediate starting caliber fantasy options you got to be a little bit.
- [48:35]
Host 4
Patient yeah what's interesting about tight end is that this is a position where we often have players this is why we say greater late we often have players come from the the double digit rounds or sometimes undrafted and finishing in the top five having really good years so loveland and warren yeah jamie said don't expect brock bowers but they're obviously very talented players it could be one of them but heath when you look at tier six kraft kincaid goddard ferguson ertz do you see that kind of potential for any of these guys kraft kincaid goddard ferguson ertz i'm going to.
- [49:08]
Host 5
Agree with michael in the chat with a little less enthusiasm not sure i'd put the exclamation point in but i he thinks kraft should be in tier four with andrews and ingram i think he should be in tier four with andrews but other than that i i pretty much agree with everything jamie said i think there's a chance that jake ferguson's target share ends up being a little bit high not impacted by george pickens and he's maybe a little bit too low but this is where i have him if zach ertz just does what he did last year for some reason again then he's probably a little too low but this is where i have him i think probably i feel more confident in the floor for all of tier six than i do tier five but tier five is much more likely to have a breakout season that you get excited about and i think kraft is as well and just to keep the the theme going i would take all of these guys before evan.
- [50:00]
Host 6
Ingram i think the one thing about kraft is again the the past volume how much is it going to increase for a team that just brought in two rookie wide receivers one you you know depending on how you feel about savion williams but you know matthew golden being a first round rookie and so yes they have christian watson for however long he's going to be out maybe the entire season seems a little bit more optimistic on his recovery but still so craft is george kettle like light right i mean just as as efficient as i'm and you know a guy that his coach has from the minute the season ended has been talking him up as as getting more opportunities and being more of a playmaker and so i mean i i think i'm the lowest of the three of us between you and dave on where he's ranked still top twelve tight end for me but like you tell me right now that they're going to throw the ball more then i have them ranked too low and really when you look at the guys in tier six the one that stands out the most clearly is kincaid and i sort of view him similar to the rookies based on how i think he will hopefully perform and and again you know keep using that word hope is is tough to do but he played through two significant knee injuries last year yeah and if he's healthy you look at this receiving court there's just such a big opportunity for him if he can get those targets and we haven't seen anything that says suggests that he's going to get those targets but again more more of betting on talent here as opposed to necessarily.
- [51:31]
Host 4
Situation man i really like these two tiers tier five loveland and warren tier six craft kincaid goddard i'd i think i'd probably draw the line with ferguson and earth's i don't know ferguson being third on the team in targets probably and maybe he could be out target pickens or it's just called tight end.
- [51:52]
Host 6
Values somebody said yeah who said that.
- [51:55]
Host 4
What was that that was yesterday yeah i don't know i don't really see it with ferguson but but goddard is a lot like craft i mean you know he's going to be third on the team in targets but in just the seven games that dallas goddard played with aj brown and devonte smith last year he averaged ten and a half ppr fantasy points per game that's good enough to be tight end ten the year before he was tight end twelve per game and jalen and by the way in those seven games i mentioned jalen hurts was throwing twenty five passes per game on pace for fewer than three thousand five hundred yards so it's the same thing how much passing increases are going to be in the eagles offense as they have talked about that that they're going to change things up a bit goddard's not going to win you your league if brown and smith get hurt but he's probably going to finish around twelfth per game right i mean he's going to be usable it's going to be frustrating i've got him twelve yeah he's going to be frustrating because he's going to have some duds i think that's the case with any tight end on a team that sometimes could throw like eighteen passes in a week where they're blowing out their opponent and they're run heavy to begin with.
- [52:59]
Host 5
Man how how insane is it that we've gone through tier six and we're at what tied in sixteen and we've not even like thought about kyle pitts.
- [53:10]
Host 4
All right let's go to tier seven.
- [53:12]
Host 6
Well i was gonna say like the tier six guys for me are like ten ppr points per game like that's.
- [53:15]
Host 4
What i'm looking for yeah kincaid i think i think kincaid was second in target per out run rate last year he just didn't run that many routes and when he came back from his injury late in the season i think maybe three or four regular season games in the playoffs he's playing about forty of the snaps kincaid he just wasn't healthy at all but especially after that.
- [53:34]
Host 5
Second injury or is it that they have gone to a more run heavy system and dawson knox is better in.
- [53:42]
Host 4
The running game no because because the snaps went down a lot after that injury he wasn't exactly a high snap guy to begin with so in that case you're right but it was exaggerated after he missed what however many games it was in week ten ish something like that i'm sorry i don't remember the right off the top of my head all right so let's go to tier seven now because in tier six you could still end up with one of those guys as your starting tight end punt on tight end and up with tucker craft or dalton kincaid or dallas goddard or if you like ferguson or ertz sure and and you could feel okay about it you might want to get someone else too someone before that they may be you know or maybe it's one of the rookies like jamie said maybe you combine tiers five and six tier seven jamie you probably is it safe to say you probably don't want this tier to be your starting tight end john new smith kyle pitts darren waller isaiah likely brenton strange hunter henry that's tier seven john new pitts waller likely strange henry no but.
- [54:43]
Host 6
These are all guys and you know if if you and we see some maybe competent quarterback play throw joanne johnson in this tier as well that they they're going to be waiver wire guys at some point during the season you know pitts will have one of those games i mean he scored a touchdown i believe in week one last year you know he gets off to a good start and he's not drafted he'll get easily off picked up off the waiver wire johnny smith gets off to a good start with aaron rodgers same thing i mean look isaiah likely broke a lot of people's fab last year because the two touchdown game he had in week one and strange could easily be one of those guys for the jaguars and then hunter hunter henry was you know very productive and again if you don't buy into the new additions in new england like he's gonna still be a significant factor for drake may so i don't mind looking at these guys and saying okay plug and play you know maybe get me through a few weeks but do i want to draft them as starters no.
- [55:37]
Host 5
And i think there's another guy that i don't really have ranked like it's possible but mike kasicki that somebody in the chat said you just need to draft him and bank on t higgins getting hurt which there is contingent upside if one of those wide receivers gets hurt for sure yep but also going down the stretch their last six games when he was playing with higgins he was getting six targets a game he just he scored zero touchdowns so nobody cared but i think there may be a little bit of hope that kasiki is more involved.
- [56:15]
Host 6
Five games that higgins missed last year kaseki was averaging twelve point three pbr points per i'm sorry thirteen point four at least twelve point three three.
- [56:24]
Host 4
Times there's another tight end who is averaging close to six targets per game yeah another tight end who averaged six targets per game in his last four games he has not shown up in the first eight tiers and he is giants second year tight end theo johnson he scored fourteen point one seven point seven six point nine and ten point four ppr fantasy points in his last four games take that feels yeah i.
- [56:54]
Host 5
Was pretty excited about theo johnson coming into the nfl and i still have some hope it feels like russell wilson's not a very good fit for him like russell wilson wants to throw forty yard bombs or dump it off to.
- [57:06]
Host 4
The running back i appreciate thomas throwing up tiers nine and ten here's a lot of names let me just go back to tiers tier seven and eight real quick and just wrap it up because for the audio audience here so we have john who smith kyle pitts darren waller i've already made the case that waller jamie he could be streamer i feel like he could do what what john new smith did last year which was run the shortest routes in the world and catch a lot of passes behind the line of scrimmage but.
- [57:30]
Host 5
What can he do at john smith did after the catch last year i.
- [57:34]
Host 4
I don't know i don't know he's.
- [57:38]
Host 6
Not as explosive as john who smith he may have been once upon a time we don't know but i mean you know huh he's refreshed he's also thirty two years old last time we saw him he was you know battling.
- [57:49]
Host 4
A hamstring injury so yeah like yeah.
- [57:52]
Host 5
Good good like he john who's averaged two more yak per reception for his.
- [57:57]
Host 4
Career than waller i bet you that's lower though what what about yards per catch.
- [58:04]
Host 5
Oh that's probably lower eleven point eight for waller ten point eight for johnnu right so it was more but it was more down the field stuff.
- [58:13]
Host 4
For waller yeah likely brenton strange hunter henry that rounds out tier seven juwan johnson chigo conquo mason taylor and mike asiki in tier viii and i'll ask you this because you have mason taylor in tier eight so let's go now we can go to tiers nine and.
- [58:28]
Host 6
Ten well just we get a lot of questions about joanne johnson or at least maybe one commenter the quarterback situation just scares me i mean look there there is great target opportunity here and no tayson hill for who knows how long he was great to close the season last year it seems like he's great every year at the end of the season when everybody's sort of forgotten about him and we could see a situation where the you know inexperienced quarterback leans on him i don't know exactly what his numbers were with spencer rattler last year i'm probably going to guess not very good but there's there's a chance here for him just based on his opportunity and they did give him a contract extension this off season so.
- [59:00]
Host 4
That'S possible okay so you have mason taylor and tier eight let's take a look at tiers nine and ten it's basically every other tight end that's ever played football dalton schultz jatavion sanders elijah arroyo tyler conklin pat friarmuth cade otten i guess we could say would need an this group needs an injury before we start thinking about them needs an injury to a to a teammate potentially.
- [59:25]
Host 6
I mean you know schultz was good the last time cj stroud was good for a full season so something to keep an eye on there with just a lot of moving parts with the receiving core i don't have much hope but if you're looking at it that way i do think that in the case of some of the replacement tight ends that you know cole comet will still have somewhat of a factor that will impact colston loveland similar like a dawson knox with how dalton kincaid sort of struggled a little bit because the veteran was there i'm very curious to see the rams tight end situation so ferguson i think just in the last couple of days got some hype higby when he came back from the acl tear was actually very good and you know we'll see how that sort of plays out with adams now there and the other guys you know tutu at well whatever you know joining puka nakua but ferguson could clearly be a big problem for tyler higby in the case of the seattle guys i'm hoping arroyo is is the guy there and then the chargers one is another one to keep an eye on because gadston you know i'm i'm fond of him long term but tyler conklin just seems like one of these guys you know similar to like how we talk about naji harris with the chargers like he's going to be i think a good role player for that team and he closed the season playing very well with aaron rodgers last year for the jets so nobody's drafting these guys but these are just you know like you said maybe an injury but could get off to decent starts and could be waiver wire.
- [60:43]
Host 4
Consideration i know it's just splitting hairs at this point but just curious why you had mason taylor in tier eight elijah arroyo in tier nine terence ferguson and harold frannon junior in tier ten.
- [60:58]
Host 6
Open up your notes for today okay what what did i mention something about.
- [61:03]
Host 4
The jets receiving core okay yeah yeah.
- [61:07]
Host 5
Josh reynolds well and not just that but mason taylor is trying to overcome stone smart whereas arroyo still has noah fant and ferguson still has tyler higby.
- [61:18]
Host 6
It'S just there's such an easy path to targets for mason taylor such an.
- [61:21]
Host 4
Easy path yep by the way i wasn't disagreeing with it i was just trying to get that explanation mile high luke says taylor has a real opportunity to be second on his team in targets and this will be the moment where i remind you that in the last nine seasons there have only been three tight ends who have finished top ten top five in ppr without being first or second on their team in targets so that is forty five tight ends who have finished top five over the last nine seasons and only three of them were not first or second on their team in targets it's a pretty big deal at this position targets are key goodbye everyone that was a fun show thank you very much jamie's tied in tears and all of his tears are available on the website on cbsports dot com fantasy heath do you have your tiers published no are you going to what do you have coming.
- [62:12]
Host 5
Out i've got the a little bit of pick by pick and then an opportunity index coming out early next week kind of looking at where teams threw the ball what situation changed which could lead to changes in terms of projections this year and teams that added players but don't necessarily have room for them or teams that have vacated targets but don't seem to have filled those i.
- [62:41]
Host 4
Really hate it when jamie or dan makes me write an article i have to write two articles this week oh.
- [62:47]
Host 6
There'S a lot more coming no for.
- [62:49]
Host 4
What what do i have to do.
- [62:51]
Host 6
We'Re going to do a lot more pick by pick everybody loves it pick.
- [62:53]
Host 4
By pick is really is very cool do you think i can start my pick by pick recap of team eight i believe with quote if only i had drafted isaac garendo end quote and be like that usually usually i don't.
- [63:09]
Host 6
Feel that way about it the last stories that i've edited for you when our magazine used to be prominent and the best in the business we're great changed a lot had to change i don't have to edit your stories anymore so i'm good okay all right thanks.
- [63:28]
Host 4
Everyone we'll talk to you tomorrow with a mailbag remember tinyurl dot com twenty twenty five fft go get there's four mailbag spots available fifty bucks each it all goes to saint jude be part of it we'll talk to you tomorrow.
- [63:40]
Host 6
On things.
- [63:49]
Host 2
Paramount podcasts now streaming on.
- [63:53]
Host 3
Paramount plus the suspect is trying to.
- [63:55]
Host 4
Evade us you're walking into the unknown we had somebody out there starting fires for the heck of it it's dark there's no road signs we need the help of air one when there's chaos below he's bailing on front this individual.
- [64:08]
Host 3
Did not want to be caught they.
- [64:10]
Host 4
Go high the helicopter sees you he never realized we were above watching him.
- [64:16]
Host 3
The whole time an all new season of chopper cops now streaming on paramount plus.