Early 2018 Values + Movie/Player Comparisons

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary
Episode: Early 2018 Values + Movie/Player Comparisons
Release Date: June 19, 2018
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

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1. Movie and Player Comparisons

Timestamp: 04:21 - 11:00

In this segment, the hosts engage in a fun and insightful comparison between NFL players/teams and popular movies, adding a unique twist to their fantasy football discussions.

Andrew Luck as "Dumb and Dumber 2"
Andy Holloway [04:46]
Andy likens Andrew Luck to the movie "Dumb and Dumber 2," expressing disappointment in Luck's injury history and questioning his ability to live up to his early career promise.

"Andrew Luck was drafted to be one of those hall of fame, first ballot caliber guys, and he was great. You loved him. And you want to know what you wanted? You wanted more. I wanted a sequel to Dumb and Dumber."

Tom Brady and the Patriots as "The Departed"
Jason Moore [06:43]
Jason compares the New England Patriots and Tom Brady to "The Departed," portraying the team as a mob organization dealing with internal turmoil and high-stakes drama.

"His weapons have Departed... you're going to need a vintage Jack Nicholson performance from Tom Brady to pull things together again this year."

Raiders as "Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"
Mike Wright [08:10]
Mike draws a parallel between the struggling Las Vegas Raiders and the critically panned sequel "Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull," highlighting disappointment in both franchises' performances.

"The Raiders once proud franchise now resembles a fourth Indiana Jones movie that didn’t live up to expectations."

Additional Comparisons:
The hosts briefly touch upon other movie analogies, such as correlating Kareem Hunt with superhero movies, emphasizing the highs and lows associated with big-name players and blockbuster films.

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2. Early 2018 Fantasy Football Values

Timestamp: 11:07 - 38:00

The core of the episode focuses on identifying undervalued players in fantasy football drafts, offering listeners strategic insights to maximize their team’s potential.

a. Devontae Booker – Running Back, Denver Broncos

Jason Moore [11:07]
Jason introduces Devontae Booker as a misunderstood PPR (Point Per Reception) value. He highlights Booker's role as a third-down pass catcher, which often goes unnoticed due to his limited running plays.

"As a third down running back, he's been great, averaging 9.8 yards of target since the beginning of the 2016 season."

Andy Holloway [14:00]
Andy echoes the sentiment, suggesting that Booker could provide consistent PPR value in the early weeks, similar to players like Paul Perkins.

"Spending an 11th-round pick on Devontae Booker is a steal."

b. D.J. Moore – Rookie Wide Receiver, Carolina Panthers

Andy Holloway [17:14]
Andy presents D.J. Moore as a high-upside, late-round wide receiver pick. Despite rookie wide receivers often being unreliable, Moore’s college performance and NFL athleticism make him a standout value.

"D.J. Moore was very productive in college and possesses a 92nd percentile athletic profile."

Jason Moore [19:07]
Jason points out the skepticism surrounding rookie WRs but emphasizes Moore's potential to outperform his draft position.

"D.J. Moore is a value in drafts; he’s being overlooked despite his talent."

c. Emmanuel Sanders – Wide Receiver, Denver Broncos

Mike Wright [21:03]
Mike highlights Emmanuel Sanders' improved situation with Case Keenum as the quarterback, leading to better offensive performance and increased targets, making him a prime PPR value.

"Emmanuel Sanders is going in the eighth round, which is ridiculous value for someone of his caliber."

Jason Moore [25:03]
Jason appreciates Sanders’ talent but notes concerns about his age and the influx of younger receivers like Cortland Sutton and Demaryius Thomas potentially limiting his opportunities.

"He can easily hit a thousand-yard season, but there are variables with the team's dynamic."

d. Trey Burton – Tight End, Chicago Bears

Jason Moore [26:28]
Jason advocates for Trey Burton as a late-round tight end with significant upside. Despite limited historical data, Burton’s athleticism and role in the Bears' offense present a high-reward opportunity.

"Trey Burton offers immense upside at a great value as a tight end in the eighth round."

Andy Holloway [30:00]
Andy concurs, positioning Burton as the last desirable tight end tier option, ideal for those targeting late-round TEs with potential high returns.

"He's the last guy in the tier of tight ends that I want, making him a perfect late-round pick."

e. Frank Gore – Running Back, Buffalo Bills

Andy Holloway [31:29]
Andy discusses Frank Gore as a potential value pick due to his consistent performance despite age-related decline. Though not flashy, Gore could provide steady production, especially if he secures a prominent role in Buffalo’s backfield.

"Frank Gore is a guy you can play in your flex and get some starts out of him this year."

Jason Moore [32:52]
Jason expresses cautious optimism, comparing Gore to seasoned players like Fred Jackson, but acknowledges Gore’s potential to contribute meaningfully if given ample carries.

"He doesn’t have a huge upside, but he’s a guy you can play in your flex and expect some starts."

f. Kenny Stills – Wide Receiver, Miami Dolphins

Mike Wright [34:19]
Mike identifies Kenny Stills as an undervalued WR option, citing his improved quarterback situation and role in the Dolphins' offense. Despite mixed past performances, Stills’ consistent target percentage makes him appealing in the 12th round.

"Kenny Stills is going in the 12th round and can outproduce his draft price with the Dolphins’ need to throw the ball more."

Jason Moore [35:10]
Jason supports the value proposition, emphasizing Stills’ touchdown potential and the Dolphins' offensive challenges that could lead to increased targets.

"Someone is going to emerge Miami as a fantasy weapon at the wide receiver position."

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3. Mailbag Q&A

Timestamp: 38:00 - 47:00

Listeners submit questions, and the hosts provide expert advice on various fantasy football scenarios.

a. Waiver Wire Restrictions Impacting Draft Strategy

Listener: RJ from the Real World [40:01]
Question: "In my league, we have a limited number of waiver transactions (sixteen total). Does that change the way you draft? Do you stock up on quarterbacks to avoid using waiver spots weekly?"

Mike Wright [40:10]
Mike suggests that in leagues with strict waiver restrictions, drafting multiple quarterbacks can provide flexibility and reduce the need to use waiver moves frequently.

"I would draft two quarterbacks in that form of league as two that I could trade between."

Andy Holloway [40:45]
Andy agrees, recommending drafting quarterbacks later tier-wise due to the likelihood of other managers employing similar strategies.

"I might draft them even later, tier-wise, because I'm sure the rest of the league is also doing this."

b. Joe Mixon vs. Jerick McKinnon in PPR Leagues

Listener: Matthew from Saskatoon, Canada [42:28]
Question: "If you could see the future, who would finish higher in a PPR league: Joe Mixon or Jerick McKinnon?"

Responses:
Both Jason and Andy lean towards Jerick McKinnon due to his potential consistency and versatility in the offense.

Mike Wright: "I'll take McKinnon."
Andy Holloway: "Yeah, I will as well."

c. Keeper Dilemma: Adam Thielen vs. Ezekiel Elliott

Listener: Jeff from Jersey [43:28]
Question: "I'm hooked on Adam Thielen and can keep him for a seventh-round pick, but he’s a higher draft pick (10th overall) compared to Ezekiel Elliott for a first-round pick. Which should I choose?"

Jason Moore [43:26]
Jason advises taking Ezekiel Elliott, emphasizing the significant advantage elite running backs bring to a fantasy team.

"I think I take Zeke. It's just those running backs are such a massive advantage."

Andy Holloway [43:32]
Andy concurs, stating that Ezekiel Elliott offers better value despite being a first-round pick.

"Zeke is a great value here. Even though it's a first-round, you're back of the first and you know, Zeke is."

Discussion:
The hosts engage in a hypothetical scenario where keeping Thielen would require compensating with other picks, ultimately reinforcing the preference for Elliott's high-impact role.

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Conclusion

The episode masterfully balances entertainment with strategic insights, offering listeners both engaging content through player/movie comparisons and practical advice on identifying undervalued players in their fantasy football drafts. The hosts' chemistry and expertise provide a comprehensive resource for both novice and seasoned fantasy managers aiming to optimize their teams for the upcoming season.

Notable Quotes:

• Jason Moore [06:22]: "His weapons have Departed... you're going to need a vintage Jack Nicholson performance from Tom Brady."
• Andy Holloway [17:14]: "D.J. Moore is being drafted as the 48th wide receiver off the board and he's a steal in the 11th round."
• Mike Wright [34:42]: "Kenny Stills is completely free in drafts because 80% of your league is thinking you can find this type of wide receiver production wherever you want."

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Stay Connected:
Join the Fantasy Footballers community at thefantasyfootballers.com and follow them on Twitter at heffballers. Don't forget to subscribe to their podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform for more expert fantasy football advice.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

I don't know who you are, but I do know what you need.

[Jason Moore]

I can tell you I know some.

[Andy Holloway]

Gentlemen with a very particular set of skills, skills they have attained over a long career of studying tape and statistics.

[Jason Moore]

Skills they want to share to make you a nightmare for the rest of your league.

[Andy Holloway]

Head over to www.ultimatedraftkit.com and order it right now. You will be prepared for your draft, Your league will be frightened of you, and you will kill them. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast, coming to you from Draft.com Studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Jason Moore]

Ah, welcome in another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. I always.

[Mike Wright]

Were you falling off a cliff?

[Jason Moore]

I always watch your face, Mike, when I do the introduction to the show.

[Mike Wright]

I don't blame you.

[Jason Moore]

I'm always watching the adventure that is your bearded, well manicured face.

[Mike Wright]

I've seen my face. It's a good face.

[Jason Moore]

It's looking all right today. Thank you. I'm happy to be sitting across from you, Mike. Jason's here as well.

[Mike Wright]

You could be sitting across from me. I know.

[Andy Holloway]

You're welcome. That I decided to go to the side of you. You don't have to look at this.

[Jason Moore]

All of YouTube, all of YouTube has.

[Andy Holloway]

To deal with that.

[Mike Wright]

Your best look is profile, Jason.

[Andy Holloway]

No, no, no.

[Jason Moore]

It is not face for radio. That's what they always say.

[Andy Holloway]

My best look is a black shirt straight on.

[Jason Moore]

A black shirt straight on. Well, welcome in. We have early values on the show today. Very excited to talk about those. You know, if there's one thing I'm known for, it's, you know, thinking outside the box. Living wild, living fancy free.

[Mike Wright]

They call you Dollar Store Andy for a reason.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I was thinking he was going pinching pennies.

[Mike Wright]

It's all about that value.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Got to get that value. I mean, he remembered.

[Mike Wright]

Why would I pay $5 for a spatula?

[Andy Holloway]

He remembers when he was paying a nickel for that Snickers bar.

[Jason Moore]

This is my show. This is. Look, you're going to learn a little bit about finding a value late in your draft. And discounts on Werther's Originals candies. Buy them in bulk. That's what this show's all about.

[Mike Wright]

$2 for balloons.

[Jason Moore]

You can find us on Twitter heffballers. The website's thefantasyfootballers.com where you can get the ultimate draft kit. Our listener community, where over 4,000 Foot Clan members hang out.

[Mike Wright]

What's up, everybody?

[Jason Moore]

JoinTheFoot.com Instagram. We're fantasy footballers over there and we're on Apple Podcasts. We always appreciate your reviews, your support, your subscriptions to the podcast. And look, if you subscribe, I'll pull some strings and we'll get the episode to drop into your phone automatically.

[Mike Wright]

Excellent.

[Andy Holloway]

Wow.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. Excellent.

[Jason Moore]

Yep.

[Mike Wright]

Now what I want to talk about the Fantasy for the People tour brought to you by Draft for the People as we are hitting the road doing some live shows in Minneapolis, Dallas, Philadelphia, New York City and Phoenix. And right [e-mail] you can enter a contest to win some tickets. You get to win a freaking full sized NFL helmet signed by a star of your city. You get to get one of your questions asked on the show live. You must be in person to claim the prize, by the way, but check that out. Footclangiveaway.com we are so incredibly excited.

[Jason Moore]

That's what they use the tickets for. They use the tickets and then they. They're in person and then they get their prize. I'm saying it's perfect. It's perfect setup.

[Mike Wright]

Check it out.

[Jason Moore]

Footclangiveaway.com free to enter if you want to win some tickets. And if you want to get in on the Minneapolis show, which is a couple days. It's not long.

[Mike Wright]

No, no. And literally handful of tickets. And when I say that, I mean just the amount of tickets I could fit in my hand. That's how many.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. All right, for the quick question today, we're going to do something a little fun. The question that came in is if you had to compare an NFL player team to a major motion picture, who would it be?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, let's head to Hollywood, fellas.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, it's time to visit the movies.

[Mike Wright]

Glamorous.

[Jason Moore]

All right, so Jason, Jason, why don't you tell us your.

[Andy Holloway]

Like, I need to lead us off with this voice. My movie is a terrible atrocity that never should have been made when it was. I'm going with. I'm going with Dumb and Dumber 2. Not the prequel, the sequel, Dumb and Dumber 2.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, no. Who's the player?

[Andy Holloway]

The player is Andrew Luck. Oh, last week we had an incredible article by Matthew Betts come out. Yeah, we got to do something about this. All right, so last week we had this incredible article come out by Matthew Betts kind of detailing, really taking. Oh, taking you down through the.

[Jason Moore]

All right, all right.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Taking you through the history of the injury and what's happened. And this is why I say that he is dumb and dumber too, because Dumb and Dumber was great. We're talking Classic all time top five list. I mean, Andrew Luck was drafted to be one of those hall of fame, first ballot caliber guys, and he was great. You loved him. And you want to know what you wanted? You wanted more. You wanted another. I wanted a sequel to Dumb and Dumber. Are you. Are you kidding me?

[Jason Moore]

It's all the main characters.

[Andy Holloway]

And then they took too much time off and they went away. And when we finally got it, it just wasn't the same.

[Jason Moore]

This is so sad.

[Andy Holloway]

I know. And I. I think that. I worry that we're not going to get the same Andrew Luck.

[Jason Moore]

And we still go.

[Andy Holloway]

He comes back. I mean, look, there were some funny moments in Dumb A number two.

[Jason Moore]

Would you still go see the movie? Wouldn't you buy the ticket?

[Andy Holloway]

I sure did. But yes. Regret, you know, I don't think. I don't think. Money well spent. You know, maybe I should have skipped the concession stands and saved a little bit of dough.

[Jason Moore]

So Andrew Locke is dumb and dumber too.

[Andy Holloway]

Is dumb and dumber too.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, that's sad. That said, I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with Tom Brady and the Patriots here. It's not Lord of the Rings anymore. It's the Departed. All right. The Patriots feel a little bit like a mob organization these days. There's like a rat spilling the beans on all these insider situations and closed door meetings and extensions in retirement and. What the. The trainer for Tom Brady. Plus, I'm gonna just. I'm gonna double use the title to this movie. His weapons have Departed.

[Mike Wright]

Well, you could. Brandon, similar to in the movie. Many people do depart the movie.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly.

[Mike Wright]

Forcefully.

[Jason Moore]

Not through free agency as much, no. Although Edelman was forced out cooks. Edelman, Dion, Lewis. These guys are gone. You're going to need a vintage Jack Nicholson performance from Tom Brady to pull things together again this year with all the weapons he's missing and all the tumult in the organization. Not that I expect them to falter. They found a way through every challenge thus far, whether it's, you know, spy gate or Deflategate or Aaron Hernandez gate.

[Mike Wright]

Oh. Oh, come on.

[Jason Moore]

Hey, hey.

[Andy Holloway]

Too soon.

[Jason Moore]

We're talking about the Departed here. Boo.

[Andy Holloway]

Boo.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, this board.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, well, move on. Your turn there, Mike.

[Mike Wright]

He's going through the hole.

[Jason Moore]

Let's pick up the mood a little bit.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, seriously. All right, Good luck.

[Jason Moore]

Now you have to try to do it.

[Andy Holloway]

It's impossible.

[Mike Wright]

It is not impossible for this professional.

[Jason Moore]

All right, go on the movie.

[Mike Wright]

I would like to bring up the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Indiana Jones. Oh, no, fourth movie.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, that was so bad.

[Mike Wright]

And I am comparing it to the Raiders once proud franchise standing at the top.

[Jason Moore]

A once proud franchise.

[Mike Wright]

You had an action hero. You had. You had Indiana Jones who could carry. You had Jordy Nelson.

[Jason Moore]

He used to be able to carry wrinkly Jordy.

[Mike Wright]

And then last year he looked like a 70 year old man doing his own stunts.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, no.

[Mike Wright]

Similarly to the way Harrison Ford was punching people. And it made me sad.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And they thought, okay, well we can bring in a young gun. We got in the kingdom of the Crystal Skull. We've got the replacement. We traded for Martevis Bryant. They've got their own Mutt Williams. Is he actually that good? Can he, can he carry the new Indiana Jones? And then. And then who's running things?

[Andy Holloway]

Right?

[Mike Wright]

Spielberg. He used to make great movies. He used to get. But now he just makes a ton of money to make movies that people don't actually want to see.

[Jason Moore]

That's John Gruden.

[Mike Wright]

That is John Gruden.

[Andy Holloway]

I very much enjoyed Ready Player One. So I can't wait for Cruden's next stop.

[Mike Wright]

It was wow.

[Jason Moore]

So this is an incredible comparison though. And that was the worst movie I've seen in theaters in maybe my life.

[Mike Wright]

And it just.

[Jason Moore]

It compare other than Blade Runner.

[Mike Wright]

It makes you sad. Yeah, Blade. You want to know my other one? I was gonna go with?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Mike Wright]

Was the. The new Avengers movie. Yeah, was. I was gonna compare him to Kareem Hunt because not only were they wildly successful, I'm incredibly excited to see the new one. Or I was. And yet my co host over here continues to bash on Kareem Hunt and superhero movies despite everyone loving them and them being great.

[Andy Holloway]

For the record, and this is a very important record, the co host you speak of is Andy Holloway. Jason Moore. I am way on.

[Jason Moore]

I don't need to see any more movies. Superhero movies.

[Andy Holloway]

Exactly.

[Jason Moore]

I've seen all the Jeremy Hill movies. And.

[Mike Wright]

And they don't go eat your worther.

[Jason Moore]

They don't live up to their billing paying $18.

[Andy Holloway]

Watch your silent films, 3D movies that.

[Jason Moore]

Are all the same.

[Mike Wright]

It's not Charlie Chaplin's Way Better.

[Andy Holloway]

Citizen Kane is the number one movie of all time. Seriously.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's move ahead to the values before we get in trouble here.

[Andy Holloway]

Values?

[Jason Moore]

No, I remembered.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, it was a.

[Andy Holloway]

That was more of enjoying the.

[Jason Moore]

You do realize that's your fault entirely.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, I do make them. So you are welcome.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's talk about values. This is simple. We're talking about players that are being drafted well beyond where we think they deserve. Players that you can get at a better draft day value, maximize the talent on your fantasy football roster and give yourself an opportunity to basically steal fantasy production later in your draft.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. Guys that will outproduce their draft price.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, and I'll go ahead and I'll go ahead and kick it off with maybe a controversial one. And I'm going to go with devonte Booker, running back for the Denver Broncos.

[Mike Wright]

Current starter, maybe he is currently in ppr leagues.

[Jason Moore]

He's 1,009 in fantasy drafts, which is more than two rounds later than a guy like Duke Johnson who just signed his extension. And we know Duke Johnson has represented a PPR value in fantasy leagues. And I look at Devontae Booker as Duke Johnson a couple rounds later. I think you guys have shown a lot of confidence in the fact that you think Case Keenum will get this offense back on track. And like you said right now the incumbent is devonte Booker. But I want to be clear. This recommendation for a value on Devontae Booker is exclusive to PPR leagues only. And I want to be clear as well. I don't think he's a good runner. I like Royce Freeman. I think the proof of Devontae Booker's running between the tackles life is that he's a bad runner. He is a third down pass catcher. I don't think anybody's been stuffed more than Devontae Booker on third down since 2016. He doesn't run for big plays. He's never had a 20 plus yard run in 200 carries. So this is not making you excited. But as a third down running back he's been great 9.8 yards of target since the beginning of 2016 season on third down that's best in the NFL does not get stuffed on third down. He's an he's a shotgun runner. He's been stuffed the least on third down. And if you that's what he is, that's his role. And so what I think will happen is you're going to see a situation that might kind of look like Paul Perkins last year where okay, you're the incumbent, you're going to start and then we're going to realize that Royce Freeman needs that first and second down but they're not going to Devontae Booker is the guy right now. They don't have a lot of other weapons and I think early season Devontae Booker is great. So if you spend a 10th round pick, 11th round pick and you can, I think you could start Devontae Booker for three or four weeks and then he may still have the sustained PPR value. So I think he's a value in drafts. I think he's being overlooked. We all are excited about Royce Freeman. We all know the skill set of Royce Freeman in first and second down is a lot better than Booker. I think he's just a steal in the 11th round.

[Mike Wright]

And there is, there is the world that exists where Devontae Booker actually holds on to his starting job. Royce Freeman was taken in the third round. I love him, but we have to, you have to accept the facts that teams miss on draft play, on drafting rookies. We miss on evaluating talent. And sometimes teams just prefer to go with their veteran player. So while I project Royce Freeman as the starter, I think we all do. This world does exist where Devontae Booker has not just standalone PPR value, but is the starting running back.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I think when you talk values, like, for instance, you know, I don't like Peyton Barber, but at a certain point he becomes a value when, when, you know, I think Ronald Jones will be the starter. But it's like if you get a guy at the very end who might be in an actual timeshare and, you know, be productive, that's what I see. Devontae Booker. Because when you say, yeah, teams miss on draft picks, what I thought was like, yeah, they did. When they got Devontae Booker, they did miss on that, but, you know, not a huge fan. But at the where he's going, he.

[Jason Moore]

Should outproduce and I'll pass the baton. But I want to give a comparison. Out there, you have situations like when, you know, Jeremy Hill came into the league and you just wait for him to take, you know, take over and, you know, Geo gets a ton of work. Geo gets a ton of that veteran trust, you know, in, you know, even last year, you know, Joe Mixon, he didn't really get the work until later in the season.

[Mike Wright]

It happened to Derek Henry. Monte Ball, who went to this exact same team was, I think, if memory serves, was a second round pick. And no, Sean Moreno ended up being the guy who you wanted on your fantasy teams.

[Andy Holloway]

Just saying, it's. No, it's.

[Jason Moore]

Sometimes the rookies take over quick, sometimes they don't. Last year you saw both of those things. Yeah, Frank Gore, for example, held onto his job. Marlon Mack didn't steal it from him. A lot of preseason hype around Marlon Mack.

[Andy Holloway]

So Frank Gore doesn't let go of the job.

[Mike Wright]

No. Very, very strong.

[Andy Holloway]

I almost went with Carlos Hyde in a very similar situation where the rookie coming in, Nick Chubb, has destroyed his draft value. But Carlos Hyde's the starter, right? He's going to be the starter. I don't think Chubb is going to take that this year at least, certainly not first half. But that is not my value. My value. I'm going to go with a guy that I really hesitate. I really hate that I'm bringing him.

[Mike Wright]

Up because did you know that you are in charge of what you bring up?

[Jason Moore]

This is like the coach that's like, boy, I really wish I could get this guy more playing time.

[Andy Holloway]

You're the coach, put him in. No, the reason I hate bringing him up isn't because I disagree with him being a value. It's because I have drafted this guy at such a value all off season long. He is going where the ADP says he's going and I, I don't want it to change. I don't want people to go, oh, that is a good value. And then start drafting him.

[Mike Wright]

So you are buying. You are buying Jason Moore's bump on someone's adp. You think you single handedly are going to raise this player up three rounds?

[Andy Holloway]

We'll see. Here's the reality. The guy that I want to bring.

[Mike Wright]

Up is fart sniffer over here.

[Andy Holloway]

The guy that I want to bring up is.

[Mike Wright]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

What does that mean?

[Mike Wright]

It means you smell your own farts and you like it.

[Andy Holloway]

That's a thing?

[Mike Wright]

Yes. All right, well, yeah, I'm looking at it.

[Andy Holloway]

Come on. All right, so DJ Moore is the name. DJ Moore. Mike was wondering in the DOC who DM was worried I was going to go Doug Martin, get out of here with that trash.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, thank you.

[Andy Holloway]

No, we're friends again, DJ Moore is a value. And if you've listened to the fantasy footballers for several years, you know that we have said, look, rookie wide receivers, we've said a lot, we've said a lot. But rookie wide receivers are not usually a good value. They're a bad play. 2014 happened and in 2014 you had ever, I mean, Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Kelvin Benjamin, I mean it was an unbelievable year where if you drafted rookie wide receivers, you were fantasy gold and it distorted the viewpoint because, you know, that's not the norm and we have to take that outlier out. We need to recognize it can happen, but take that out. And we have told people, hey, stop drafting these wide receivers in. These rookie wide receivers in the Third round, In the fourth round, in the fifth round. Like, it's hard to get value compared to the veteran wide receivers that are in the third, fourth, fifth round. But D.J. moore is going in the 11th round. He is being drafted as the 48th wide receiver off the board. And D.J. moore was very productive in college. His production profile is great. His athletic profile is even better. He's a 92nd percentile athlete. He was the first wide receiver drafted in the NFL. And you go, okay, well, I love everything about that. Maybe you don't like Cam Newton, right?

[Jason Moore]

I love him.

[Andy Holloway]

That's your issue. I know you do, Mike. You don't. You were worried about the Cam. I went back and watched film in preparation for this. I don't think there has been worse quarterback play in the history of from little kid flag leagues all the way up to retired hall of Fame games than the quarterback play that DJ Moore had to withstand in college.

[Mike Wright]

You are correct.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, you can't even watch the film. It's just annoying watching these quarterbacks stink. But here's what I wanted to bring up. Take the 2014 out. Let's just look at 2015, 2016, 2017, at how the top rookie wide receivers have finished. Okay, so over the last few years, you have an average over those three years of the first, the top rookie wide receiver finishing as the wide receiver 17. That's. That's a very realistic outcome here for what I perceive to be the number one rookie wide receiver. But let's say he doesn't hit the number one. Let's say he's the number two or even the number three. If he's the third best rookie wide receiver this year on average over the last three. Taking 2014 out. He still out produces the 48th wide receiver. So I just don't see a world where this is. His upside is, you know, that wide receiver 15, the medium side is still a serviceable, you know, wide receiver two, three flex option.

[Jason Moore]

I think the only thing that will change is the draft position. I don't know if he'll be there when we get to draft time.

[Mike Wright]

I think, well, not anymore.

[Andy Holloway]

Not smelling this awesome fart over here. Freaking roast.

[Jason Moore]

Can you pull that out, Brooks, please? Smelling this awesome fart over here. We've been smelling them for years, Jay. They're not. They're not so rosy. Mike, you're on the clock.

[Mike Wright]

Before I get into my first value, I want to thank today's sponsor, Pristine Ox, and the best sports memorabilia website of all time.

[Jason Moore]

They're also the ones supplying Those unbelievable full size helmets for each of our live shows.

[Mike Wright]

Absolutely they are. We have a brand new jersey on our wall. Courtesy Jason Moore. In honor of Jason Moore because Cal Rudolph has made his way onto the wall somehow.

[Andy Holloway]

We did it. We sure did.

[Mike Wright]

But that just tells you Pristine auctions got pretty much anybody you are looking for. The signatures are always authentic. These are, these are the best gifts, not only for your friends and family, but for yourself as well. If you want to hear some deals that have happened recently. And Antonio Brown signed Steelers color rush jersey just $97. An Evan Ingram signed giants mini helmet $55. Thank you. But if you want to check out what's going on, they got hundreds of daily auctions. That's pristineauction.com P R I S T I N E auction.com youm make that completely free account, free to make the count, free to look, free to bid. But if you're going to make an account, let them know that the footballers sent you.

[Andy Holloway]

And we also want to make sure everybody out there knows about SeatGeek. If you're going to live events, which of course you should be, you should be going to our live events and everyone's live events. Go to, go to some of these football games, go to some, go to some theater in your local town. Theater, some theater, whatever your event, music, theater, sports. SeatGeek is the best place to get your tickets. It's what we use. It's what we've used to take our kids to games, our families to events. It's awesome. The app is very easy. Download the app. If you don't even know what game or what event you're going to, just pull out your phone right now. You're probably listening on it. Download the SeatGeek app and be prepared for when that time comes because it's so easy. They color code their grids, they check multiple hundreds of sites to get in the best value. They give you the best deals and all of the purchases there are fully guaranteed. Best of all, you get $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase. Just download the SeatGeek app. Enter promo code footballers today. That's promo code footballers. $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Mike, who you got?

[Mike Wright]

All right. Apparently we see value on the Denver Broncos because the guy I want to bring up is Emmanuel Sanders. When it comes to finding a value like Sanders, I want to take a look. Has his situation improved? The answer is drastically. Last year he was playing with a multitude of quarterbacks and the highest passer rating of that Bunch was Trevor Simeon with a pass rating of just over 73. Then he was dealing with Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch. Now he gets Case Keenum. Granted Case, it's a smaller sample size, but that was a great year for Case Kingdom who had a passer rating of over 98. Jason nailed it. Massive situation upgrade. Last year Emmanuel Sanders was playing through injuries. He was coming off of three straight years of over 1,000 yards. On top of that of him just being a great wide receiver, an improved offense. Emmanuel Sanders might see the slot a little bit more and he's already one of the best intermediate route runners in the league. The team spent a second round pick on Cortland Sutton. Perhaps they want to go Cortland Sutton into Mary's Thomas on the outside and you put Sanders in the slot where he played over just over 20% of his routes and he was excellent. You know who played in the slot for Case Keenum last year? Adam Phelan. Things went very well for Adam Thielen this past season. So do not ignore Emmanuel Sanders who's right now in PPR drafts is going in the eighth round. A guy who can easily be a wide receiver too. Again, the eighth round is absolutely ridiculous value for me, for Manny.

[Jason Moore]

It's interesting because I love Emmanuel Sanders. I think he's one of the more talented players at the position over the last, you know, six, seven years. He makes more out of less than a lot of receivers do. You do have to evaluate the only thing that gives me pause. Right. And I agree he's a value. He's a value because of the upside of Emmanuel Sanders. But they do have a couple of, you know, new guys in town. He's getting up there in age. When do they start making those migrations like you said with Sutton and with Dejon Hamilton. Both guys.

[Andy Holloway]

Henderson.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, both Hamilton and Sutton are flashing at camp right now. A lot of good comments coming out about them, sure, but they're not. Where's his average draft position?

[Mike Wright]

Sanders is going in the top of the eighth round.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. He just those curious.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, the young guys and when I'm talking about him playing in the slot and Sutton on the outside, if they're going to go too wide, it's going to be demary. Thomas and Sanders, yeah, I love Cortland, Sutton and Hamilton but they're not going to play over these established veterans who have been fantastic.

[Andy Holloway]

No, they're not. They're going to replace him.

[Jason Moore]

Do you think he has a thousand yard season in him as you think Sanders does this year?

[Mike Wright]

It's in the realm of outcomes. I don't know if I would project a thousand yards, but he can easily hit that.

[Jason Moore]

All right, my next value is a big. Yeah, Jay Grizz loves it. Oh, it's Trey. No, it's Trey Burton.

[Mike Wright]

You better hide your picnic baskets.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, my goodness. Trey Burton. It comes down. The value I see in Trey Burton is that right now in the eighth round. What are you.

[Mike Wright]

Did you just get it?

[Andy Holloway]

No. Of course I got the joke earlier, but it's just dawning on me again. Like our nickname, Trey Boo Boo. It just made me realize. So stupid. I mean, it's just. I just had to hang my head and go, how did we get to Trey Boo Boo?

[Mike Wright]

Okay, so the man who has forced us to use Turok Cohen.

[Andy Holloway]

Turok Cohen's the great.

[Mike Wright]

You are sh. You are name shaming. Trey Boo Boo.

[Andy Holloway]

Where did Boo Boo come from?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, there's that. There's Turok. Where did Boo Boo come from? Because his last name starts with a.

[Jason Moore]

B and he's on the Bears.

[Mike Wright]

He was Trey Boo Boo before the Bears.

[Jason Moore]

No, he wasn't.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, he was.

[Jason Moore]

He was. And then he got. Oh, that's bad.

[Andy Holloway]

Sorry, Andy. To derail.

[Jason Moore]

Look, you want to wait on tight end, unless you're getting a steal on Rob Gronkowski and you're talking late second round or something like that, you want to wait on tight end. And Trey Burton offers you immense upside at a great value. He is behind and will be behind Kyle Rudolph. He. He will be drafted behind Delaney Walker. And I like him both more than both of those players. The challenge, and maybe that's what the inherent value is. The challenge is projecting Trey Burton based on his very limited sample size. In our ultimate draft kit, we have these really cool consistency charts that are all color coded, and you can see how a player played from year to year, game to game. And we had a listener write in and say, where's Trey Burton? That's the right question. Because he didn't play. There is nothing. He's not consistent nor inconsistent. He has, you know, 300 yards as a career high on his, you know, on a season, on what we've seen so far. So it's all about projection of Trey Boo Boo. And you have to follow a few key pieces of evidence here. One is the four year, $32 million contract, right? He was paid $22 million guaranteed after flashing, you know, in place of Zach Ertz in Philadelphia. And it's all about that athleticism now. He is not Travis Kelce. I Want people to understand that because it's easy with Matt Nagy in Chicago to just say, okay, he's just going to come in and be Travis Kelsey. He's not Travis Kelce. He's shorter than Travis Kelsey. He's lighter than Travis Kelce. He's also faster than Travis Kelce. But he's coming in to play that role. That's the U tight end role. And that was one of the highest priorities for Matt Nagy, new head coach of the Bears when he came in there. Now they resigned Deion Sims, they still have Adam Shaheen. But those guys are going to play different roles in the offense that you tight end is the Travis Kelsey role where you line up in the backfield, where you motion out of the backfield, where you are on and off the line of scrimmage. That's what Negie wanted. And you have a high talent, highly paid, highly utilized role in this offense. And as far as I am concerned, there are very few tight ends in the NFL that create more mismatches than the kind of profile of Trey Burton. So I really like him. I think he's a great value at 801. If I could wait and spend seven draft picks on, you know, wide receiver, running back and then grab my tight end in the eighth round with a top three top five potential guy in Trey Burton, that's what I want to do. And I think he's kind of a, you know, just a high upside tight end.

[Andy Holloway]

He, I mean he's a must talk about on a value show because he represents to me this season the last guy in the tier of tight end that I want. And so which is usually the guy I target going into drafts. Like who's the guy I can get late that I actually want? Like if I miss out on him, whatever. You know, Mike can do the Vance dance but. But he's the guy I want who's going the latest and that's usually how I do tight end every year.

[Jason Moore]

So I don't know from an upside perspective, you guys would not project Walker or Rudolph to have a higher ceiling than Burton, would you?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, I would say Walker, yes, but he could have a higher ceiling.

[Andy Holloway]

Touchdown represents ceiling.

[Mike Wright]

I still think he can, but. But I would rather have Trey Burton.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Jason, who's your next early value?

[Andy Holloway]

My next early value? I'm zigging where, where I'm usually zagging. I don't know. There's a lot of players I really like as values this year. You know, I brought up Carlos Hyde might want to talk about him. I love me some Kerryon Johnson, but he's rising up the draft board. Ty Montgomery, but we just talked about him. There's a lot of good values out there, but one guy that I don't think we've talked about at all. And nobody wants him. I mean, I can guarantee nobody wants him because he is the running back 60. And that's the golden. You know how you have golden birthdays because he's 60 years old. That's old man four.

[Jason Moore]

That's the golden birthday.

[Andy Holloway]

Four, yes, the golden birthday. Look, Frank Gore is the least sexy pick you can ever make. And this is really a roster construction conversation. When you talk about Frank Gorelate for me, I don't usually go this way. I like to take the safe early round picks and swing for the fences in the late round. But the argument can be made, you know, the higher probability of getting those home run hits are earlier. You know, you want to go a Joe Mixon route in those early middle rounds where there's a little bit more risk there. You can take really, really late. A guy like Frank Gore, who, I mean, you talk about a value, there's no way he's finishing as the running back 60. He's going to be in the 30s or 20s, because he always is. In fact, the last decade, including the last four years where he's been over 30 years old, he's never finished past the running back 20. And if you look at the depth chart and you go, okay, you got Kenyan Drake, who they just clearly don't want to give the ball. I mean, they're doing everything in their power last year and this year and off season to make sure he's just not the guy or maybe to keep him healthy, that means carries have to go somewhere else. And if, if Frank Gore ends up with, you know, 200 carries, oh, man.

[Jason Moore]

I know doubting him is the wrong thing to do.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, it's so easy.

[Jason Moore]

But I still see him at. I think with the transition of the team at this stage in his career, I just worry about that Fred Jackson year, you know, Fred Jackson. Fred Jackson was 34 when he went to Seattle. 26 carries for 100 yards and then faded into the sunset. Gore's 35.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, he's 35, but he's going home. This is his hometown. He was. Got something to play for here in front of his hometown crowd.

[Jason Moore]

He goes where old people go.

[Andy Holloway]

Florida. Yeah, well, you know, you stay healthy there.

[Jason Moore]

Will they let him play in a Hawaiian shirt?

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, that'd be cool. Like over the, over the pads.

[Jason Moore]

Over the pads.

[Andy Holloway]

Very nice.

[Jason Moore]

I want to see if it can happen. No.

[Andy Holloway]

So look, he's not, he's not a huge upside guy, but he's a guy where you can play in your, in your flex and you're going to get some starts out of him this year.

[Jason Moore]

And they, they signed him for a reason and they don't have a locked in starter. So at this point you're telling me the RB60 in drafts is the potential to be a starter on one of 32 NFL teams? That's all.

[Andy Holloway]

That's all it is.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Mike. Oh, we're going back to this well, Is that what we're doing?

[Mike Wright]

I love this. Well, because.

[Jason Moore]

What movie is this? I've seen this one before.

[Mike Wright]

It's called All Water is Wet. Because this, it's just facts.

[Jason Moore]

What do you call a three star movie, Brooks? A dime a dozen? Something like that. Yeah, go ahead, Mike.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, well, dime a dozen. I'm going to talk about more value from the Miami Dolphins. That is Kenny Stills.

[Andy Holloway]

Who?

[Mike Wright]

Andy. Covers his face. But let me read some numbers for you. Kenny Stills last year was a wide receiver one 18.75% of his games, though that is the same percentage as Demarius Thomas, waiver wire sensation Robbie Anderson, and Julio freaking Jones. Kenny Stills, he's.

[Andy Holloway]

You heard it here.

[Jason Moore]

I only like the Julio part of that argument. The other part of the argument I think is lame. Just so you know, I'm with you comparing him to Marius Thomas. When demarius Thomas disappointed people, you know.

[Mike Wright]

Married, Thomas was still a weekly starter and Robbie Anderson was incredible for once. You picked him up off the wire and he was hot. Everyone loved Robbie Anderson.

[Jason Moore]

Have you? Let me ask you a genuine question just to completely submarine your argument. Have you ever started Kenny Stills in a fantasy league before?

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay, I have as well.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Several times.

[Jason Moore]

Have you ever done it two weeks in a row?

[Andy Holloway]

Yes, I have.

[Mike Wright]

I have.

[Jason Moore]

Have you ever been happy about doing it?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, I have.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, come on.

[Mike Wright]

Because liars. Even though it seems like Kenny Stills.

[Jason Moore]

Brooks, have you ever started Kenny Stills? No. He's shaking his head.

[Mike Wright]

It feels like he's played in the league for 15 years. I get it. He just turned 26 years old. Over the past two seasons, he is tied for the seventh most receiving touchdowns in the NFL. He is tied with Doug Baldwin and Brandon Cooks for touchdown receptions.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, yeah, but he got to play with Jake Cutler and Matt Moore.

[Mike Wright]

Exactly. This is the team. The Miami Dolphins have vacated 41% of their targets. If you talk about Jarvis Landry, Julie's Thomas and JJ, the team has vacated 50% of their passing touchdowns from this past season. Kenny Stills is going in the 12th round. Kenny Stills is completely free in drafts because 80% of your league is thinking like Andy, that you can just find this type of wide receiver production wherever you want, even though you cannot. I'm not saying Kenny Stilts is a wide receiver. One you're like, yeah, I would just won my draft because I got Kenny Stills. This is about value. This is about a player who will outproduce, who will certainly outproduce his 12th round 83.

[Andy Holloway]

And if you're taught, you know, values are great for best ball too. And Kenny Stills is a perfect basketball player because he's behind the defense.

[Mike Wright]

He's a sub 44 runner.

[Jason Moore]

When he's played, he's played. This is 2015-2017. He's played 28 games with Ryan Tannehill. He's played 19 without him. His pace with Ryan Tannehill is 35 receptions for 500 yards.

[Mike Wright]

Ryan Tannehill hasn't played football in forever.

[Jason Moore]

He's played 28 times with peaks.

[Mike Wright]

And you know what? Ryan is still an upgrade over Jay Cutler for this past year. I will say this.

[Jason Moore]

Without Ryan Tannehill, his pace is 56 receptions, 821 yards and eight touchdowns. Actually respectable numbers with Ryan Tannehill. 35. 593 and five.

[Andy Holloway]

I was going to say with her.

[Jason Moore]

28 game sample size on a team that I think is going to be terrible.

[Andy Holloway]

The one thing I would say in defense of Andy here and when I played Kenny Stills back to back week and loved it was what? He's the best friend of Matt Moore. Matt Moore just loved him. But it's not just that. More. Drew Brees is great with him too. I mean, obviously he's Drew Brees.

[Jason Moore]

But I like your argument about the vacated target.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Who is Ryan Tannehill's best friend?

[Andy Holloway]

He lost Jarvis Landry.

[Jason Moore]

But you have the variables if you agree. Amendola, Albert Wilson.

[Mike Wright]

I am not. I'm not saying all 50 or all 41% of those targets are going to Kenny.

[Jason Moore]

Still, you could have started him. I'll give you his 20. His week. When he finished 25th last year, you could have started him six of 16 weeks.

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

And for a guy going in the.

[Jason Moore]

But he's still 25.

[Mike Wright]

He's 26.

[Jason Moore]

Would you rather have Kenny Stills or Kenny Golladay? Battle of the Kennies.

[Mike Wright]

I would rather. I Would rather have Kenny Stills.

[Andy Holloway]

I would rather have Kenny Golladay because of quarterback.

[Jason Moore]

I thought maybe because then.

[Andy Holloway]

The routes are smooth. So smooth.

[Jason Moore]

All right. All right. Now, I'm not trying to just battle you on it. I'm just tired of talking about Kenny Stills year after year and not actually. I get it, you know, feeling like I get what I want from him. I don't disagree that he's talented. I just think that the variables of how often he's been utilized and how, you know, if they threw him the ball. If you could tell me you're going to throw the ball to Kenny Stills eight times a game, I'd be like, nice. He's probably going to catch a bunch of those and score a bunch of touchdowns. So we'll see what happens with Kenny Stills. Somebody is going to emerge Miami as a fantasy weapon at the wide receiver position. And I know we're just as fatigued about talking about devonte Parker, that I don't think any of us are projecting that from devonte Parker.

[Mike Wright]

No.

[Jason Moore]

So then it's like, is it Stills? Is it Wilson who, you know, hype trains running for Albert Wilson right now, Danny Medola, or maybe it'll be nobody and they won't score all year.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, the nice thing is, and this is, this is true, their defense has been downgraded a lot, and they're going to need to throw the ball to catch up, and they're going to need to throw the ball deep, and that's going to benefit Stills.

[Jason Moore]

You're going to see. You see a down crease on their defense.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes, a very large down crease.

[Jason Moore]

A huge, huge down crease. All right, let's get into the mailbag.

[Andy Holloway]

Mailbag.

[Jason Moore]

If you have a question, the voicemail hotline is 302464, TFFB. We'd be happy to answer your questions. We're gonna be doing a live mailbag at all of the live shows this summer. You can learn about Those [e-mail] if you want to send in your question via email, you go to the website thefantasyfootballers.com click the submit a question button. Let's go ahead and jump into a voicemail. Hi, this is RJ from the Real World.

[Andy Holloway]

And my question is, in my league.

[Jason Moore]

We have a limited number of waiver transactions. Sixteen.

[Mike Wright]

One per week.

[Andy Holloway]

And does that change the way you draft? Do you stock up on quarterbacks, too, so that way you don't have to use a waiver spot on them every week?

[Mike Wright]

If you're streaming.

[Andy Holloway]

Thanks for letting me ask a question.

[Mike Wright]

Bye.

[Andy Holloway]

Man, that sucks.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean, it does. It does change how you draft. If you have a league that's forming it that way, you have to, you know, it's almost like being in a league that drafts multiple quarterbacks or something where you just don't have the options of picking them up and having flexibility. I would draft two quarterbacks in that form of league. That's two that I could trade between.

[Andy Holloway]

That's what comes to my mind as well. I'm still going to draft the quarterbacks late. In fact, I might draft them even later, tier wise, not drafter wise, because I'm sure the rest of the league is also doing this. But I might look for later tiered multiple quarterbacks because I also, you know, might want to get a little bit more consistent tight end, someone that, you know. Delaney Walker is a guy I don't usually draft. You know, I like to go upside and if I miss, I'll cut him and sign someone else. Delaney should be okay because I want to use my weekly waiver picks on the running backs that hit on the, on the flex options that are better rather than streaming. And, you know, one of the things I would, I would do, I would go back and look if you, if you have access to last year's data and see how many times did you, you know, was this an issue? Were you running into it or did you have at the end of the year because you were, you know, playing conservatively, did you end up with three extra waiver transactions?

[Jason Moore]

Did he say there were one per week so you can't even save them up?

[Andy Holloway]

No, I think there were 16 total. So on average, one a week. But I don't think you could only do one a week. I'll bet you could do 15 the.

[Mike Wright]

First week and then clarified. But it's just public service announcement for our commissioners from the real world. Stop limiting waiver moves. Stop making your league inactive. Stop ruining fun.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Yeah. That's why we play. That's why we do this podcast. We're trying to help you win, but also enjoy your league. Shouldn't be pulling teeth. One waiver pickup sounds rough, not fun. All right, this question comes in from Matthew in Saskatoon, Canada.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, bonjour.

[Jason Moore]

Simple question. If you have the ability to see the future, who finishes higher at the end of the season? Joe Mixon or Jerick McKinnon says PPR in a PPR league. Give me a name.

[Mike Wright]

I'll take McKinnon.

[Jason Moore]

McKinnon.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I will as well.

[Mike Wright]

Wow.

[Jason Moore]

Dolores.

[Andy Holloway]

I think the higher odds on probability to do it.

[Jason Moore]

Dolores. Ed in house toilet.

[Mike Wright]

Bunch from the toilet here.

[Jason Moore]

From the house toilet. I would like to ask a question about keepers. I'm hooked on a Thielen and can keep him for a seventh round pick. He has the 10th pick in a 10 team snake draft or Zeke for a first.

[Mike Wright]

So Zeke for the 10th overall pick.

[Jason Moore]

Right. Zeke for the 10th overall or Thielen and you get him basically free with the seventh round pick. Oh, and he says, I listen to your show from the toilet all the time. Well, thanks.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you.

[Jason Moore]

That's a really difficult pick. I think I take Zeke.

[Mike Wright]

I think I do too.

[Andy Holloway]

Zeke is a great value here. Even though it's a first round. You're back of the first and you know, Zeke is. I go Zeke as well. Despite the fact that I love Adam Thielen.

[Jason Moore]

Let's play the game though. Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Let's play. Let's play the game. Let's play the game. We tell our listeners to play, which is let's pretend that you keep the first round pick and you go with Thielen. So who would you get in that first round?

[Andy Holloway]

So maybe I could get Melvin Gordon?

[Jason Moore]

Well, probably not because there's keepers.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. It depends on who's being.

[Jason Moore]

So I'm going to give you a name. Would you rather have Devonta Freeman and Adam Thielen or would you rather have Ezekiel Elliott and Emmanuel Sanders?

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, man. So Zeke and Sanders.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Or Adam Thielen and Devont Freeman.

[Jason Moore]

Yep. Feel free to substitute Sanders for Goodwin or Cobb maybe.

[Andy Holloway]

I think I'm gonna go Zeke. I want, I want the power running back.

[Jason Moore]

That tough, tough line there.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

If you knock that Thielen pick back another two rounds and be an easy Zeke, if you moved it up a couple.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Jason Moore]

It would be an easy feeling.

[Mike Wright]

I'm still taking. I'm going to take Zeke. It's just those running backs are such a massive advantage.

[Jason Moore]

All right, another voicemail question. Hey, bowlers, this is Jeff from Jersey. I purchased the UDK my second year in a row.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm looking forward to drafting with it.

[Mike Wright]

It's awesome.

[Jason Moore]

I know you're big on late round tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

You guys haven't talked much about Kyle Rudolph with Kirk Cousins in town.

[Jason Moore]

I know he's big on throwing to the tight end.

[Andy Holloway]

Case in point with Reed when he was healthy in Washington.

[Jason Moore]

Do you see him as a late.

[Andy Holloway]

Round value at the tight end position?

[Jason Moore]

Thanks. No.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Andy Holloway]

Hundred percent.

[Jason Moore]

He's not A late round value. He's a six round pick. So that's the problem. When he said, do you see him as if he had said, do you think he'll have a productive season? I would have been like, yeah, but as a late round value, I can draft Trey Burton two rounds later.

[Mike Wright]

So no, let's go hypothetical then in.

[Jason Moore]

And he had 53 for 532 and eight last year. The touchdowns are pretty much guaranteed with him. But you're not going to see a season like you did two years ago, right, where they had no wide receivers. They were all gone.

[Andy Holloway]

Adam Thielen sucked all those targets away. Truly, if you look at the progression of Adam Thielen's career and Kyle Rudolph, he took over that role. So you're correct, Andy, you're not going back to that.

[Jason Moore]

And that was an outlier year. I mean if you look at his entire career, that was the one year in which he actually, I mean his whole career, 26, 53, 30, 24, 49. And then last year 57. Then he had the 83 reception year. So he's about touchdowns. He's good for five, six, seven, eight touchdowns maybe.

[Andy Holloway]

I love Kyle Rudolph, I really do. I've got him as a top five tight end this year. I think he's great in the sixth round. It's not the best value because of the other wide receivers and running backs that you need multiple of that are much more difficult to stream off of waivers. So it's one of those, I guess. I guess the answer to the question is yes and no. I'm very happy with Kyle Rudolph. I would love to have him as my tight end. But you're correct, Andy, he's not a late round value at this point in the 6th.

[Jason Moore]

You know how many targets he had in the 83 reception year?

[Andy Holloway]

130.

[Jason Moore]

132. Targets. 132. Alright, that is it for today's episode. Hope you enjoyed this show. Make sure you subscribe and listen on itunes or wherever you are listening on your Apple podcast app, Google, whatever. Wherever you get podcasts for free. Thanks for checking us out. And check out draft.com ballers. Play some. Play some basketball with us. It's a lot of fun. And stay tuned for the live stream of the Minneapolis show here. You're not gonna be there. Tune in.

[Mike Wright]

Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Goodbye.

[Andy Holloway]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantas Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter the FFballers.